How to communicate with confidence, manage your nervous system, and speak the language of executives (w/ Matt Abrahams)

Summary

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Fixable Podcast Episode Summary

"How to communicate with confidence, manage your nervous system, and speak the language of executives (w/ Matt Abrahams)"

Release Date: April 6, 2026
Hosts: Frances Frei & Anne Morriss
Guest: Matt Abrahams, Stanford Business School lecturer and author of “Think Faster, Talk Smarter”

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Episode Overview

This episode of Fixable digs deep into the challenges of effective workplace communication at all levels. Hosts Anne Morriss and Frances Frei, both seasoned leadership coaches and academics, are joined by communications expert Matt Abrahams to tackle real listener questions. Together, they explore actionable strategies to:

• Deliver feedback across generations and hierarchies
• Balance authenticity with clarity
• Excel in high-stakes executive communications
• Manage spontaneous moments and nerves
• Use frameworks, presence, and mindset to build confidence

Rich with practical tips, vulnerable stories, and a touch of improv, this episode offers listeners immediately useful tools for being heard and respected at work, regardless of title or temperament.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bridging Generational Gaps When Giving Feedback

[04:07–10:13]

• Listener Scenario: A Gen Z employee struggles to give clear, direct feedback to older colleagues without damaging relationships.
• Matt Abrahams reframes feedback:
  • Feedback isn't just negative; reward positive behaviors to reinforce what you want to see.
  • “If this person's manager does do one of the things that they want them to do...say, ‘Thank you very much. It was really great to hear that person's thought all the way through.’ ...So we're giving the feedback that respecting listening is valuable, rather than saying interrupting is not valuable.” —Matt Abrahams, [04:47]
• When constructive feedback is necessary:
  • Use “I” statements focused on impact and requests for help, not blame.
  • Example: “It's really helpful for me to be able to get my thoughts completely out there. It helps me process and allows others to give me that feedback. I'd appreciate that opportunity to share.” —Matt Abrahams, [05:50]
• Acknowledge emotional baggage:
  • Anne notes “parental baggage” sometimes surfaces, and naming your emotions—either to yourself or the other person—can help ground the conversation.
  • “If you're feeling it, I think naming it can be helpful to put it out there because the other person is seeing the result of it...” —Matt Abrahams, [08:20]
• Frances suggests playful, private naming of emotions can be satisfying, even if you don’t share it out loud.

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2. Balancing Authenticity with Conciseness and Impact

[10:15–17:52]

• Listener Scenario: Speaking from the heart leads to rambling; being concise feels insincere. How can leaders be authentic and impactful, especially in spontaneous moments?
• Matt’s Solution: Practice with frameworks.
  • Knowing structures like “What? So what? Now what?” allows you to “prepare for spontaneity.”
  • “A structure helps you be clear and concise, yet at the same time frees you up to really be authentic and true to yourself.” —Matt Abrahams, [11:56]
  • “Structure actually sets you free.”
• Frances demonstrates “operational transparency”: It’s okay to make your structure explicit as you speak—students and colleagues find it clarifying.
• Anecdote: Anne shares her publishing triumph—her quote about the “irony of commitment is that it’s deeply liberating” was printed on Starbucks cups. The discussion parallels how commitment to structure can liberate, not confine.
• Signposting helps learning and recall—call out “the so what is…” or “bottom line.”

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3. Handling Challenging Questions from Senior Leadership

[17:52–26:19]

• Listener Scenario: Presenting to execs, questions feel like challenges. Instinct is to get defensive.
• Matt reframes: See tough questions as “gifts, not threats.”
  • “If we approach it as opportunity, we lean in. Our tone is collaborative, our answers are bigger.” —Matt Abrahams, [21:24]
• Improv exercise (“Give a gift”): Demonstrates creative, collaborative response to the unexpected.
  • Stay present, accept, and build on what’s given (“yes, and…”).
• Practical advice:
  • Translate threat into excitement, curiosity, or gratitude to manage nerves.
  • Frances uses a “diffusing word” (“nifty!”) to switch to a receptive mindset when facing spicy feedback, anchoring herself.
  • Anne uses appreciative phrases (“That’s a great question”) as self-management, not just crowd management.
  • Improv skills help keep you “radically present”—essential for authentic, effective communication.

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4. Speaking Clearly and Confidently to Executives

[27:52–34:37]

• Listener Scenario: Feels clear with team, but goes vague/abstract with execs, trying to sound “strategic.”
• Matt suggests:
  • Words matter—avoid “jargon monoxide” (term by Huggy Rao). Tailor but don’t obscure meaning.
  • Use the “know-feel-do” framework: “What do I want my audience to know, how do I want them to feel, and what do I want them to do?” —Matt Abrahams, [28:54]
  • Focus on specificity—“If you can measure it, you’re being specific enough.”
  • Use curiosity as an emotional hook (“puzzle” technique): “Market share was going up, profits were going down. What’s going on?” —Frances Frei, [31:19]
• Anne observes:
  • The real loss is clarity; people get lost impersonating what they think execs want to hear.
  • The nervous system sometimes interprets these moments as threat; Anne’s advice is to stay “sturdy,” focus on making sense, and gradually build.

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5. Managing High-Pressure Communication and Nerves

[34:37–43:29]

• Anne recounts an early-career pitch that left her speechless from nerves.
• Matt’s advice:
  • Normalize the anxiety—anyone would be nervous.
  • Tactics for reclaiming composure:
    • Reference what preceded your slot to create a runway.
    • “Distract” audience (give them a thinking prompt) so you can compose yourself.
  • Pre-emptive tactics:
    • Breathing, positive mantras, recall your expertise.
    • Visualization and deliberate practice—expose yourself mentally to the environment (“flight simulator for your brain”).
    • Request a photo/layout of the room from organizers—environment matters.
  • Anne and Frances echo:
    • It’s a journey from anxious paralysis to joy on stage. Persistence and preparation turn fear into mastery.

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6. The Future of Communication: The Creator Economy

[43:29–end]

• Matt is “fixated” on the rise of the creator economy and its impact on executive communication, strategy, and institutional structure.
• There’s an urgent need for guidance as leaders adapt to being public, social figures in new ways.

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Notable Quotes

• “Structure actually sets you free… Having that guidepost, having a framework actually sets you free to be agile, to be spontaneous, to be authentic.” —Matt Abrahams, [12:40]
• “If we approach it as opportunity, we lean in. Our tone is collaborative, our answers are bigger.” —Matt Abrahams, [21:24]
• “Improv isn’t about being funny. It’s about being present.” —Matt Abrahams, [26:14]
• “What do I want my audience to know, how do I want them to feel, and what do I want them to do?” —Matt Abrahams, [28:54]
• “Jargon monoxide suffocates communication.” —Matt Abrahams (quoting Huggy Rao), [28:32]
• “The irony of commitment is that it’s deeply liberating in work, in play, in love.” —Anne Morriss (her Starbucks cup quote), [15:13]

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Engaging Moments & Anecdotes

• Anne’s “publishing triumph”: Her philosophical quote on commitment ends up on Starbucks cups, launching a fun back-and-forth about commitment, structure, and poetic impact. [14:10–16:35]
• Improv "Give a Gift" game: Demonstrates presence, spontaneity, and collaboration—essential skills when fielding surprise executive questions. [19:03–22:39]
• Anne’s early-career investor pitch: A vulnerable silence illustrates the very real effects of nerves—and how the right tactics (later learned) help overcome those moments. [34:37–40:13]
• Room-in-the-round story: Frances’s experience of being surprised by a stage “in the round” underscores the value of knowing and preparing for your environment. [42:19–43:24]

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Practical Frameworks & Takeaways

• Reward positive behaviors as feedback—don’t only call out negatives.
• Name your emotions (privately or publicly) to ground yourself and invite connection.
• Adopt simple frameworks ("What? So what? Now what?") for spontaneous, concise, authentic communication.
• Reframe tough questions as gifts/opportunities, not threats.
• Signpost and be transparent: Let listeners know where you are in your structure.
• Use curiosity as a hook—present challenges or puzzles to draw in the audience.
• Visualize and simulate environments to calm nerves and reduce the “shock of the new.”
• Know-feel-do: Every communication should have clear goals for audience knowledge, emotion, and action.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [04:07] — Bridging generational divides in giving feedback
• [10:15] — Being authentic and concise, frameworks for clarity
• [17:52] — Handling challenging executive questions & improv game
• [27:52] — Speaking to execs: code-switching, clarity, and persuasion
• [34:37] — Managing nerves in high-pressure situations
• [43:29] — Future focus: Strategic communication in the creator economy

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This episode is a treasure trove for anyone eager to elevate their communication, whether preparing a pitch, leading a team, or wrestling nerves in front of an audience. Anne, Frances, and Matt combine deep expertise with humor, self-awareness, and actionable wisdom, making workplace transformation feel genuinely within reach.

Transcript

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[Matt Abrahams]

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[Anne Morris]

I had this totally absurd, surreal experience of having to pitch an investor where I walked into a room that was so crazy. A table that was the size of a football field. The great man and decision maker was seated at the other end. I stood up to speak and literally nothing came out. Like not a single sound. Or were like my body could not create any sound. Welcome to Fixable, a podcast from ted. I'm your host, Dan Morris.

[Frances Fry]

And I'm your co host Frances Fry. And and I'm Anne's wife.

[Anne Morris]

For the past couple of episodes we've been talking about what it means and what it takes to talk like a leader. And today we are doubling down on communication given how much it shapes our experience of work even if we're not a CEO or senior leader.

[Frances Fry]

Yeah, we see communications challenges at all levels. Feedback that lands wrong.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, Feeling like you missed your moment in that last staff meeting.

[Frances Fry]

A good idea that never quite gets heard.

[Anne Morris]

Yep. We've talked about many of the tools that can help you become a better communicator, and today we're putting them to the test by answering some communications questions that have come directly from you. Today we are bringing in friend of the show, Matt Abrahams, the best communications teacher we know. When he joined us before on the show, we talked a lot about how to feel more confident when speaking up at work. Definitely go back and check out that episode if this is on your list of goals.

[Frances Fry]

Matt is a deep thinker on these issues and also one of our favorite people.

[Anne Morris]

He is relentlessly delightful we didn't create this episode so we could hang out with Matt again, but we didn't not create this episode so we could hang out with Matt again. We are not above it, not even a little bit. Matt is a lecturer in organizational behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. He spent decades helping people think faster, speak more fluently, and show up with confidence when everyone's watching. He's the author of the fantastic book Think Faster, Talk Smarter, which is exactly what we want him to help us out with today. Matt Abrahams, welcome back to Fixable.

[Matt Abrahams]

I am so thrilled to be back with you, Anne and Francis. This is a true joy.

[Anne Morris]

Very mutual. This time we're going to make you work for it a little bit.

[Matt Abrahams]

I know.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. We asked our listeners to tell us about their toughest communications problems, and they responded beautifully. Some of them are very meaty. So the plan today is we were just going to knock off some of them together and see if we can make a little progress. How does that sound?

[Matt Abrahams]

Awesome.

[Anne Morris]

All right, so first up, this is a question about bridging the generational divide at work, something we hear about a lot. So I will be playing the role of the Gen Z er, an aspirational role for me in this.

[Matt Abrahams]

You've already failed. You've spoken too long.

[Anne Morris]

Here we go. I'm now in dramatic reading mode. One of my biggest communication challenges is giving feedback to people on my team who are older than me. I catch myself softening the message so much that it's not actually clear anymore. I'm trying to figure out how to be direct without damaging the relationship. I love this one, which is why we're starting here.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah. No, and this is. This is such a real problem. And it's not just generational. This can be a problem for lots of people. So a few things that I like to talk to people about, and I'd love to hear your insight and input as well. First and foremost, feedback doesn't always have to be giving negative constructive feedback. You could actually reward the positive. If this person's manager does do one of the things that they want them to do, imagine that the manager is interrupting, and particularly interrupting people who happen to be younger. Perhaps what the younger person could say when an interruption doesn't happen, say, you know, thank you very much. It was really great to hear that person's thought all the way through. It got me thinking this way. So we're giving the feedback that respecting listening is valuable rather than saying interrupting is invaluable or not valuable. So one way to do that is to find. Find instances of the behavior or approach that you like and reward it. In other cases, if you have to give the constructive feedback, my advice would be to explain how the behavior is impacting you and make a request for the other person to help you. So instead of saying would you stop interrupting me? Or it really is annoying grandpa to interrupt. Yeah, grandpa, yeah, Boomer. Or you. What might better is to say it's really helpful for me to be able to get my thoughts completely out there. It helps me process and it then allows others to give me that feedback. I'd appreciate that opportunity to share. Putting the person who is more senior, older in this case, in a position of helping the other person. So it's not what they are doing is bad, it's they can help the person more. So it's really framing an approach that I think is how I would advise this. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how to handle this.

[Anne Morris]

Well, let me offer this because. And I'm sure I'm projecting in what I'm about to say and in this entire conversation so much my own journey as a professional human has been in this communication space.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yes, absolutely.

[Anne Morris]

But I feel like what sometimes happens in this situation is that our parental baggage hijacks us. So we come in with a plan. You know, I'm going to have this adult to adult conversation with my colleague and then we get in there and this there's a ghost in the room or there's an emotion that we are suddenly feeling that we don't want to feel. I love that a lot of your work is around how to just simultaneously deal with what we're trying to achieve and then all of these emotional interruptions that are trying to throw us off. What's your reaction to that?

[Matt Abrahams]

I think it's really insightful to say that we bring a lot of our baggage, prior experience into our situations and there might be issues around speaking with people who are older or issues we've had with parents and other situation. For me, in these circumstances, what I often recommend people do is to really focus on the bottom line of what you're trying to think about before you start the conversation and ground it in what you're trying to achieve. That is achievable in some of these circumstances. The things we want might be unrealistic in the moment. The person is not going to change dramatically overnight, for example, but when you ground yourself in the bottom line, it helps put the emotion in perspective. And it's also okay, I think, to name the emotion to say, hey, this, this is hard for me to share that I feel vulnerable and exposed in circumstances where I'm interrupted often.

[Anne Morris]

So I think, are you naming it for yourself or am I naming it in the context I might name it

[Matt Abrahams]

for the other person? Yeah, so, so, so be transparent there. It's hard. It can be hard for people to do, but if you're feeling it, I think naming it can be helpful to put it out there because the other person is seeing the result of it and it might be helpful for them to understand what's really happening from your perspective. Otherwise they're likely to make an attribution. Right. They might say the person, they're nervous or they don't care. Right. So naming it helps. Again, so much of this is context dependent. What's the relationship? What's the experience? Have prior attempts gone? But I do think first, grounding yourself in the bottom line, what you really want. And if an emotion comes up, potentially making the decision to share that and be transparent, and that might actually help you connect and get what you're striving for.

[Anne Morris]

Beautiful. Francis, get in here.

[Frances Fry]

What I love about this is so you have a choice of catching someone doing something wrong or catching them doing something right.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yes.

[Frances Fry]

And Matt, your point is that if it's possible to catch them doing it right, it's so much stickier. And so I love that. I also like giving them a role. It's almost like the Thomas the Train useful engine, like put them to work, put them to work on the team, and then the operational transparency of narrating the how I'm doing and giving language to it. What I would do in a pinch is I might name it just for myself and I might have a very playful name. And then that name I would write down. And then I just might doodle the name of it so that it's at least satisfying to me, even if I'm not going to be totally transparent to the other person.

[Matt Abrahams]

I really like that. Yeah, I really like that idea of honoring it in some way. Writing it down, coming back to it. I think that's great. And if appropriate, sharing it out.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. All right, so I like this team. Yeah.

[Matt Abrahams]

So far. Yes.

[Anne Morris]

This was the warmup. This was darn. All right. Yeah. All right, So our next question comes from a fixer who is struggling to balance authenticity and impact. So dramatic reading number two. When I speak from the heart, I sometimes ramble or lose focus. When I try to control my speaking to stay concise, I overthink and feel like I'M degrading that authenticity. How can leaders share their insights and passions authentically while keeping communication clear, measured, brief and impactful, Especially in spontaneous moments where there hasn't been time to prepare.

[Matt Abrahams]

What I really appreciate about this question is that the asker, the fixer, has an appreciation of their communication and what a lot of people don't.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, there's some real self awareness there.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah, yeah, that self awareness is very, very clear. And that's an important skill to develop. Well, this is not going to surprise either of you or any of the folks listening in who know me and my work. I really believe having frameworks and structure help us in these moments. So it is a little bit counterintuitive to say that you can prepare for these spontaneous moments, but you certainly can. Any athlete I know, Francis, you are and were an athlete can prepare for what happens on the court or on the field and you do a bunch of drills. So if, for example, I become very comfortable with a particular framework, I happen to like one that's very simple. Three questions. What, so what? And now what? If I am comfortable with that structure when I'm in that moment, trying to authentically convey a point, make a plea, be persuasive, having that structure, having that play ingrained in my body, in my mind, allows me to go to it very easily. And a structure helps you be clear and concise, yet at the same time frees you up to really be authentic and true to yourself. So having a guidepost, having a framework, actually sets you free to be agile, to be spontaneous, to be authentic. But you have to practice it, you have to get used to it. It has to become comfortable for you. Once you have that neural pathway laid down, it then becomes very easy or more easy to deliver these authentic messages in the way the person wants. So the work to be done is just like an athlete to do some training and drills on whatever structure framework tends to work for you, and then it frees you up. It's ironic to think, but structure actually sets you free.

[Frances Fry]

You know, Matt, when you were speaking, we got taught early on when I was a junior faculty member at hbs, on the what and the so what part of it. And I would combine your answer to the first question with this one. I would sometimes use operational transparency for that too. I would even say in the class, so this is the what? And now I'm going to do the so what? And then you might even then say, and then we're going to later get to the now what? So I actually think it doesn't have to be a hidden structure if that makes you feel more comfortable. For me. Makes me feel more comfortable because then I don't forget it. And I can remember in the classroom, I would write it down on the what and the and the so what and so. I really love that point. I also love the deeply liberating part of structure.

[Anne Morris]

Frances, do you feel like this is a good time for me to bring up my greatest publishing triumphant?

[Frances Fry]

I think this is your great. So I do. It was exactly what came to me, and I used the words deeply liberating to set my wife up for success.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, I'm just responding to your ask here.

[Matt Abrahams]

It is amazing to watch a true team work together. I like this.

[Anne Morris]

So my greatest publishing triumph, Matt Abraham's is in my 20s. Starbucks had a contest to send in a quote that if you won the contest, they would publish on the side of their cups that they would hand out to.

[Matt Abrahams]

Oh, my goodness. And yours is on a cup.

[Anne Morris]

So it was a tell that this was my idea of a good time. But I just remember being unemployed in a Starbucks in New York City and thinking, that sounds kind of fun. And so I believe I was the only civilian to ever win the contest. All the other quotes were like, musicians and songwriters and poets.

[Matt Abrahams]

I see. I see.

[Anne Morris]

But I will read you the beginning. Oh, I just happen to have this cup right here.

[Matt Abrahams]

What a coincidence.

[Anne Morris]

It's available for the camera. I'll start. I don't think I can finish because it goes on for fucking ever, Matt. But I will start.

[Matt Abrahams]

How big? It was a big venti or something.

[Anne Morris]

They couldn't fit it on this small.

[Matt Abrahams]

They have a new size just for Anne.

[Anne Morris]

The irony of commitment, which I knew nothing about at the time, by the way, the irony of commitment is that it's deeply liberating in work, in play, in love.

[Matt Abrahams]

Ah.

[Anne Morris]

So to your.

[Frances Fry]

Your point, you're just saying that.

[Anne Morris]

Oh, you. Oh, are you? Is the crowd asking me to go on more?

[Matt Abrahams]

Encore. Encore the act.

[Anne Morris]

I'll continue. The act frees you from the tyranny of your internal critic, from the fear that likes to dress itself up and parade around as rational. Hesitation to commit is to remove your head as the barrier to your life.

[Matt Abrahams]

Oh, my. How poetic. Yes, drop the cup, but don't lose it.

[Anne Morris]

Oh, I have 45 more. My mother also collected them. She just would go to Starbucks, order coffee just to see if it would show up. By the way, people still reach out to me and tell me they find me on LinkedIn and say, I read your cup and I proposed to my wife or I quit my job. And it's super fun.

[Matt Abrahams]

Well, one, it's very poetic. I think it's very true. And I'm trying to imagine reading it, holding it, and not burning my. Next time I see you, I would like. I've asked many people. In fact, I think I have an autographed copy of your book. I would like an autographed copy of your cup.

[Anne Morris]

Now we're talking. I shall deliver.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah. But not only do I totally agree that commitment actually can be setting you free, so does structure.

[Anne Morris]

It's similar, and I think it is so real. And it is counterintuitive to the human animal.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah, there's a whole different story.

[Anne Morris]

Planning will set you free to be more authentic. Structure will set you free to be more authentic and yourself and be able to really connect with your audience. And I love that message in all of your work.

[Matt Abrahams]

Well, thank you. And I want to I just highlight something Francis said that making it explicit is a great verbal highlighting tool. We know from, you know, adult learning theory, cognitive science, that when you actually call out something that's important or do these signposts that people pay attention more and they tend to remember it more. So if you can do, hey, the so what here is, or the bottom line is, or what I'm taking away from this is all of that is a great way to emphasize your point and help people to remember.

[Frances Fry]

I remember as a young faculty member, I can still hear myself saying to students, okay, that's the what now, what's the so what?

[Matt Abrahams]

When you ask it as a question, it gets them even more engaged. And if you're like me and occasionally forget what you are supposed to say next, they help you. So it's lovely. It's lovely.

[Anne Morris]

Awesome. All right, here's another scenario. Scenario three. When I'm presenting to senior leadership, the questions sometimes feel less like questions and more like challenges. My instinct is to get defensive, which probably doesn't help. What's a better way to handle that moment?

[Matt Abrahams]

I spend a lot of time working with people to help them re envision these moments of spontaneity, not as threats, but as opportunities. It is very logical and understandable to take a question or a request for feedback in the moment and as a gauntlet, as a test, as a challenge. And that has negative impact on us. Not only psychologically is it draining, but we tend to retreat. We tend to make our answers short. Our tone tends to become curt, all of which aren't helping. So I ask people to think of these as opportunities. In that moment, there's an opportunity to learn, to extend, to connect, to collaborate. And I will, often with my students in the workshops I run and the keynotes I give, I will play a very silly improvisation game to prove this point. And I'm wondering if we can try this here. Are you up for playing an improv game?

[Anne Morris]

Any improv? Always. Yes and yeah.

[Matt Abrahams]

Okay, great. Well, that's part of the punchline of this. Okay, we are going to play a very quick game I learned from my friend and teaching colleague, Adam Tobin. It's called give a gift. And it's very simple. We're going to give imaginary gifts to each other. I think what I'm going to do is I'll orchestrate it, and then I'm going to ask Ann to give a gift to Francis. And then, Francis, you'll give a gift to Ann. So let's all practice. Everybody hold an imaginary gift in front of you. And listeners at home, you can play this game on your own. You find a partner. Everybody ready? One, two, three, give. And now. One, two, three, receive. Okay, that's the hardest part of this game. So what we're going to do is, Ann, you're going to give Francis a gift. You're going to pantomime giving a gift. Francis, you will pantomime receiving it. As soon as you receive it, I want you to open up the box. Pantomime that. Look in, look at the camera, and thank Ann for the first thing that comes to mind. And then as soon as you name what was in the gift that she gave you, and you're going to explain why you gave it to her. So do you see? There are two acts of spontaneity here. The first act is naming the gift, and then the second act is explaining why you gave that gift. And then we'll switch. Now, Francis, I am going to ask that when you open the box, whatever you have already pre thought as your answer.

[Frances Fry]

Forget that.

[Matt Abrahams]

Let's forget it, and let's just name the first thing we say. No, exactly.

[Frances Fry]

I'm not a big pre thinker.

[Matt Abrahams]

Okay. All right, let's watch Give a gift. Anne, please give Francis a gift. And then as soon as Francis. Francis names it, please explain why you gave it to her.

[Frances Fry]

Butterflies. Butterflies. Thank you.

[Anne Morris]

I gave you that gift, Frances, because to me, you are constantly transforming and reinventing yourself. And the butterfly is a beautiful metaphor for that.

[Matt Abrahams]

Oh, I love that. How lovely. All right, let's diagnose this. Let's diagnose what just happened. So, Ann, Gave the gift. Frances named it, and then Ann accepted whatever Frances said and immediately responded, let's play this game the other way. And then I want to share with you why I do this with my students. So, Frances, please give Ann a gift.

[Anne Morris]

Uh, something from a craft fair. So unexpected.

[Frances Fry]

I was shopping with my sister, and when we saw this multicolored item, we just thought of you and of home, because you make us all feel like we're home.

[Matt Abrahams]

Lovely. Lovely. All right. So why did we take the time from your listeners to play this game? I want to take everybody to a moment. I'd like to take both of you to this moment when you had just given the gift and you were waiting for your partner to name the gift. I was able to see you. I don't know that everybody can see what I saw, but your eyes were wide. You were actually leaning towards the camera. There was a smile on your face. You were looking with anticipation, excitement for what did I give? And both of you did an expert job of yes, and a critical role, critical tenet of improvisation. But it is in that moment of anticipation that you were seeing the opportunity, the potential for collaboration. What if those challenging questions that your fixer asked. We're seen as gifts, not as threats and challenges. If we approach it as opportunity, we lean in. Our tone is collaborative, Our answers are bigger. And so I use this as an activity to show people that in a silly activity, a quick, silly activity that is fraught with ambiguity, with potential for disaster, you can actually embrace it and have fun with it.

[Frances Fry]

It.

[Matt Abrahams]

The same is true. Now, I am not naive. I know there are people who send hot, spicy questions your way, put you in situations where it is testing you and seeing what you're made of. In those moments, though, if you see it as an opportunity, you embrace it. You will approach it differently, and you have, just as you demonstrated the ability to do it. If somebody is diametrically opposed to me and really coming with a lot of heat, there is one thing we have in common and there's one opportunity. We both care about this topic and this issue. And I can connect with you on that. I can validate that doesn't mean I agree with you, but I can validate that you support this or have concern as I do. So in these situations, the reframe the approach as opportunity and gift, away from gauntlet, threat, and challenge. It's a mindset shift, but it fundamentally positions you to better engage and to come off as more confident and competent.

[Frances Fry]

You know, I like connecting this with your earlier point that if you prepare for it, if you do this a few times, it will be easier. And so there is this part of the preparing, but it's also like the meta in other times when people are giving you feedback to practice there. And I was even wondering, like, a word would be a trigger to me. So if somebody gives me, you know, feedback that might have been a little spicy, I can. I have a diffusing word that comes to mind that I just say to myself aloud, but I would say it aloud in the operational transparency, which is. Oh, nifty.

[Matt Abrahams]

Okay.

[Frances Fry]

Just as a way.

[Anne Morris]

That's so disarming. It's the word nifty. Yeah. Because as.

[Frances Fry]

Just as the way to remind me to be in the receiving. In the receiving mode for it.

[Matt Abrahams]

I really love it.

[Anne Morris]

I think so much of this is it's managing your own nervous system in the moment. Because even if your kind of conscious mind knows this is not a threat, there's all of this subconscious churning that's happening when someone is attacking you publicly. When you're reading it that way, what is often helpful to me is to force myself to say something like, that's a great question, or, thank you for this question. I'm glad you brought. Because it's. And less to manage the crowd and more to manage myself in that moment by saying, by really almost describing it as a gift. I love that question. Thank you. And then it allows me to fill in the space that I actually want to fill in instead of this defensive crouch.

[Matt Abrahams]

I often use the approach you do, Anne, which is I express gratitude for the question. Again, doesn't mean agreement. I think, Frances, what I just learned from you is it. Is that diffusing when I say thank you, that actually ground me because it means there's something of value here. And that's what I'm using that as. Reframing the negative feelings that we have is actually excitement and anticipation not only change your approach, but actually help you communicate better. And that's essentially what this game of give a gift, I think, does, is it shows you that you can be excited about this threatening situation in a way that can help you perform better.

[Anne Morris]

And the power of improv training is also practicing what happens mentally, physiologically, when we are totally, radically present, which we are so rarely are moving through our world. And it is in those moments of radical presence when we are the most effective communicators.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yes, improvisation is a wonderful tool. Many people shy away from it because they think it's about being funny, and it's not. It's about being present.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Matt Abrahams]

And I just completed a course I took with one of the grand doms of improv. Her name's Patricia Ryan Madsen. She's in her 80s. She's taught it for decades. She's amazing. Has a wonderful book called Improv Wisdom and the way in which you can apply lessons from improv to your daily life. So many myriad ways. And that presence, that connection, that openness to what is happening in the moment. Really powerful. And knowing that you can do that is one of the most empowering things we can, we can, I think we can do.

[Anne Morris]

Beautiful.

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[Matt Abrahams]

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[Anne Morris]

All right, I have one more scenario and then we have a couple questions for you, Matt, if that works for you. When I'm talking to my team, I'm pretty clear. But when I'm talking to executives, I suddenly feel like I need to sound more strategic. And then everything I say gets vague and abstract. How can I stay clear while still speaking their language?

[Matt Abrahams]

Words matter. And really thinking about what the words, what words are important for the audiences you're speaking to, what words are known and then also decoding the words that might not be known. One of my colleagues at Stanford's business school is Huggy Rao and Huggy likes to talk about jargon monoxide.

[Frances Fry]

I love Huggy.

[Matt Abrahams]

Huggy is awesome. Yes, Huggy's amazing and he's got so eloquent and names things beautifully. And I think jargon monoxide is just a great way. It suffocates communication. So I really appreciate that. The question is asking about words themselves. What is the word? So we have to be mindful of that. We do have to do some code switching based on who we're speaking to and the power and status that's there. That said, what's helpful in being Clear in communication is to have a goal. Goals are critical. And to me, a goal has three parts. Information, emotion, and action. What do I want my audience to know, how do I want them to feel, and what do I want them to do? This allows you to focus. So what's the information I want to get across? And given that I'm speaking to senior leaders, how are they accustomed to hearing that information? What words are important for them? Do I lead with the potential benefit or do I lead with the problem or the opportunity? These are all choices we have to make. In the information piece, we often forget the emotion piece, we certainly fixate on our emotion. I'm nervous, I'm scared, but what emotion do you want them to feel? If I want them to feel that burning platform, that motivation to act, that's going to influence the words I choose and the message I deliver. And then finally, what is the action? I see this happen time and time again in my coaching practice where people aren't clear and specific on what they're wanting. And that can lead to ambiguity. So you need to be able to be specific. And people say, well, how do I know if I'm specific or not? My simple answer to that is, can you measure it? Can you tell when somebody's done it or they haven't done it? And if you can't, then I challenge them to get more specific. In the vast majority of communication, the action can be measured. So to my mind, it's about really thinking about what's the language that's expected, what are those words, how can I use it? Framing and wording matters, and then having a clear goal, no feel due, and really giving yourself permission to lean into the feel and the do not just the information.

[Frances Fry]

You know, when you originally said in their language, I underlined their words matter, but I think their is doing most of the work there. So from their perspective, that's correct and really getting yourself in their shoes. I also, on the emotion side, I was writing down like, what's a surefire technique that even if you don't know someone's, they brought some executive front friends and you don't know them, so you don't know what's going to activate them. I think a puzzle is a pretty good surefire technique. And so that if you're presenting information as a puzzle.

[Anne Morris]

What's an example, Francis?

[Frances Fry]

Market share was going up, profits were going down.

[Matt Abrahams]

What's going on?

[Frances Fry]

Yeah, this is where we begin. There's not a person in the room that's not listening.

[Matt Abrahams]

That's right.

[Frances Fry]

I like tailoring it to the specific emotion. And if you don't know it or you don't know how to read it, he's just trying to think, what's a surefire emotion? Puzzle is a pretty good. I think I'm asking puzzle to me.

[Matt Abrahams]

So two things. You know, I host a show, think fast, talk smart, and the number one bit of advice is know your audience. And that point of their language is exactly that point. But I just had a neuroscientist on talking about what makes things memorable. And her point was, if you build curiosity, the brain wants to solve problems because the brain doesn't want to be at risk. Right. And so it wants certainty. And so if I pose a question that builds curiosity, your puzzle, as it were, that brings about a whole bunch of engagement, emotion, and relevance. If I don't know the right emotion, curiosity is a great one to rely on because as you said, it's very motivational for almost everybody.

[Anne Morris]

What is interesting to me about this question is what gets lost in that code switching journey is clarity. And they start using this language that they're kind of impersonating somebody else. And so the other thought I'm having on this one is it feels like there's a story here that is also not serving the person who's trying to communicate. There's some version of I need to be, you know, smart in this room or I need to talk another language. So there are some correct assumptions that you pointed out, Matt, which is, yes, you do. It is a different communications moment than when you're working with your peers or working with your team. But it is not necessarily that you're being evaluated in that moment or that it is a biological threat moment. You know, like, there are stories that may not be helping you, like, for instance, what you described. I feel like, at minimum, I have to be able to of kind say a sentence that makes sense to the audience.

[Matt Abrahams]

Awesome, right?

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And then maybe I can earn the right to be in this varsity game of clever framing. But I want this person to stay sturdy in that moment when they are deciding the stakes are higher. I don't belong here. I have to sound smart to stay safe. All that stuff I can imagine, like flooding the zone here and getting in the way of clarity.

[Matt Abrahams]

I think that's an important perception. I'm glad you brought that up. And really relevant here, how I tend to try to get to that is, I ask people to share a time where things went really well and you were in that moment. And let's look at what was going on there and then share a time where it didn't go so well. It can be hard for people to be introspective about those circumstances that you describe. So I have found a big unlock is to have people share. Okay, talk to me about a time where you were with the executives and you did communicate clearly what was going on. And it doesn't have to be what happened in that moment. It could be you got a good night's sleep. It could be that you had a conversation with somebody right before that was relevant to the topic, so you were primed. It illuminates a lot of those stories that are in the way of what's happening. And so I appreciate that comment for sure.

[Anne Morris]

I'm selfishly going to ask you a scenario from early in my career, which I think we didn't cover last time when you were in the show, and then we're going to get to some questions for you. So I had this totally absurd, surreal experience of having to pitch an investor where I walked into a room that was so crazy, it was like a table that was the size of a football field. The great man and decision maker was seated at the other end. There were like 30 henchmen in identical suits between me and the great man. I was instructed to stand up and give the presentation. There was a language barrier. I stood up to speak, and I. And literally nothing came out. Like, not a single sound or were. Like my body could not create any sound. What would you advise young Ann to do in that situation? Eventually, my colleague also decided to stand up, and he just started saying words until I could get myself together to join people in the room again. Was there anything I could have done in that situation?

[Matt Abrahams]

I believe there are, but first and foremost, I am sorry you were in that circumstance. I can only envision how awkward and awful that was. But I also believe it probably served as a catalyst for some of the work you've done and helped you then. I think all of us who do the kind of work we do can point to circumstances that were awkward and uncomfortable but have led to lessons. So I hope you, as you go through that PTSD on that, that you remember. The goodness came from it. A lot of my work has been on anxiety and anxiety management, and one of the first things I do is try to normalize it. That circumstance, I think, would have made everybody nervous. Now, how they would have responded, likely different. Everybody responds to anxiety differently. The question is, what do you do in that moment where you have nothing to say? The two bits of advice that I often give is if there's a way to go back, to go forward. So I don't know what preceded you in that moment. If you were actually in the room while something was happening before, if you can hearken back to that. Often when we're in those situations, we feel incredible pressure to be unique, interesting, engaging right away. And if we can tap into what was happening before as a Runway, that gives us something to say and can set us up. And then the other thing I recommend people do in these circumstances is I call it distracting the audience. But it's not really like, hey, look over there. It's give them something to do that's important. You know, say, let's all think about the most important thing we've just heard, or what's the most important thing that can come as a result of this. Give people just that moment where they're not thinking about you, but they're thinking about what you've asked them to do again, to get you back present in the moment. I think that's what your partner did. Whoever stood up on your behalf is they got them thinking about something else that gave you that moment to collect your thoughts. But there's a whole bunch you can do before you even walk into that room. Deep breathing helps. Positive mantra where you're saying, I have value to bring, to cancel out some of that, oh, my goodness, I'm going to be in front of these 31 very intimidating people. There's the reminding yourself that you have expertise and that you've been in circumstances like this. So there's a whole bunch you can do for approach and to manage the symptoms that might have mitigated that moment happening. But I'm sorry you went through it. And sometimes we just have to take that as a learning lesson.

[Anne Morris]

It was super formative.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

All right, Matt, we have some questions for you and Frances. Any. Any questions?

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah, I was going to say, Frances, you've probably heard that story before. What's your advice to Anne?

[Frances Fry]

Well, but through the. Through your glasses this time, Matt, which was very helpful that I am going back to something in common was. Is a really nice, specific technique that would be calming for me to do that speaks to me. And honestly, even if you weren't in the room, the thing that's in common is the weather. Like, you know, there's some, like, literally, there's something in common that was.

[Matt Abrahams]

This is the longest table I have ever seen.

[Frances Fry]

Right. Yeah, I, you know, or.

[Matt Abrahams]

Where's this?

[Frances Fry]

I'm sorry we couldn't get the longer table, you know, like just something there. So I really like that a lot because I've used these things and sometimes I go off the rails with the distracting because I do weird.

[Matt Abrahams]

You can take it too far. Yes.

[Frances Fry]

But I like your form of distraction, which is give them a job distracting. So both of those seem, so they seem quintessential met to me in that they're rigorous and practical and I feel empowered to go do both of them.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. So for me, this journey has been about pulling myself out of the story that you are going to die. Just like the nervous system deciding that this stakes of the moment are so crazy and they're getting the audience engaged, getting me focused on this idea of being of service to the people and just getting me away from the story that it's all about me. It has nothing to do with me in that moment. My job is to bring this audience along on the exciting story of this company and the future. It wasn't about me, but I had to convince my nervous system that went off the rails in that moment.

[Matt Abrahams]

Right. And the more you practice it or. And another great tool is just visualization. One of the longest studied tools for managing anxiety is visualization. When you visualize yourself in these circumstances, you are in essence preparing. It's like a flight simulator for your brain. And so if you know you're going to go into these high stakes situations, close your eyes, see it. There's a company, there are several companies that sell VR goggles where you can actually create the situation and simulate it it so that it's not the first time and your body actually desensitizes because you've seen it before in the simulation that you've run. So there's a lot of that initial shock because I've never been in this room in front of these people. But if you simulate it, then it's not as intense.

[Anne Morris]

It's so fun to imagine me trying to simulate this.

[Matt Abrahams]

Well, you didn't expect that.

[Anne Morris]

No, no, I know. I'm loving it. I am loving this whole idea, Anne's

[Frances Fry]

idea of a good time.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah, well, we need to work on that. But I mean all of us have done keynote addresses and I don't know about you, but one of the most important things that I do to this day is I want to see an image of the room and I want to see the room from the perspective of the speaker. And that helps me. And I've done God knows how many of these talks, but that really helps. And so we often over fixate I think on the content we want to deliver, which is important to focus on, but the environment matters too. And if you can prepare yourself for that, say, oh, I always ask, how are people sitting? Is it auditorium style or they're sitting at tables? That's to help me calm that nervous system. So when I walk in there, I have an idea now that you're not going to hit it 100% of the time, but it's very helpful as a

[Anne Morris]

public service announcement to the people listening who identify as being a nervous speaker or they weren't born for this. So I think there's so many myths around this. I will say that it is my favorite thing in the world to do at this point in my life is to try to create an experience for room with an. I'm all, you have 45 minutes. Or, you know, like it is. I really love it. I really love it. And the journey to get to this point has been the ride of a lifetime.

[Frances Fry]

And it went from no sound.

[Anne Morris]

It literally went from no sound to, like, bringing down the house kids, when

[Frances Fry]

you were just saying, Matt, that you like to see the room, which I now religiously ask for. Because I remember one time I would not ask to be prepared, I think because I liked what happened to me and like the improvisational moments. And then one time I walked into a room, five minutes to go. I was told there's gonna be 3,500 people there. And that was exciting to me. And I got there and it was in the round.

[Anne Morris]

Oh. Oh, ouch.

[Frances Fry]

I have asked for the room ever since. Cause that.

[Anne Morris]

Oh, I feel that one.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah, yeah. You get very dizzy speaking in those environments. And again, asking those questions doesn't mean the conversation isn't spontaneous. There can't be improvisation. It's again, providing constraints and giving yourself freedom within that environment. My hunch is you gave a very engaging talk. It might have been more engaging had you known it was in the round and the beginning.

[Frances Fry]

I feel like that's a very safe conclusion.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah, yeah, right, exactly.

[Anne Morris]

So to close us out, what is one thing you are fixated on right now?

[Matt Abrahams]

You know, I teach strategic communication. I am fixated on the creator economy and how it is changing everything, number one. And the importance of strategic communication in the creator economy. Now, I'm not just talking about the teenager who's posting on TikTok. I'm talking about the fact that executives now are having to have a social presence in a way that they haven't in the past. And they're having to make very strategic decisions for themselves and for their company. How we digest media, how we digest politics. I am fixated on the strategic communication implications for the creator economy. I find it really important and I haven't seen that that dialogue yet and

[Anne Morris]

so it's so interesting. It's not started big part of the conversation yet but I love your observation that it's changing all of our jobs.

[Matt Abrahams]

Yeah. And the way institutions work. There's a whole cohort of people for whom this is native and a whole cohort of people for whom this is foreign. And those tectonic plates are going to be very interesting. And I think people who do the work you do, people who look at strategic communication like I do, can be guide sherpas and helpful in these circumstances.

[Anne Morris]

Matt Abrahams, you are awesome. Thank you for coming back.

[Frances Fry]

Thank you so much, Matt.

[Matt Abrahams]

I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you. I have an incredible urge to go to Starbucks and get a cup of coffee.

[Anne Morris]

I get the emails when they reprint

[Matt Abrahams]

the post, you know, when they come out.

[Anne Morris]

So they're not out right now.

[Matt Abrahams]

Okay, I'll keep my eye out.

[Anne Morris]

If you want to be on Fixable,

[Frances Fry]

please call us at 234- FIXABLE. That's 234-349-2253 or email [e-mail].

[Anne Morris]

Fixable is a podcast from ted.

[Frances Fry]

It's hosted by me, Anne Morris and me, Frances Fry.

[Anne Morris]

This episode was produced by Rahima Nassa from Pushkin Industries. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Balaurasso and Roxanne Hylash and our

[Frances Fry]

show was mixed by Louis at Storyyard.

[Paylocity Announcer]

When everything is moving all at once, your workforce, your tech stack, your business, you don't need more tools. You need one solution. That's why Paylocity built a single platform to connect hr, finance and IT with AI driven insights and automated workflows that simplify the complex and power. What's next? Because when everything comes together in one place, growth comes easy experience. One place for all your HCM needs. Start now at paylocity.com One support is

[Frances Fry]

available 247 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help. Because a great trip starts with the right support.