How to communicate with your colleagues

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fixable (TED)

Episode: How to Communicate with Your Colleagues

Release Date: October 6, 2025
Hosts: Anne Morriss & Frances Frei
Guest: Danielle (Director of Communications)

---

Overview

This episode zeros in on one of the most persistent yet slippery organizational challenges: how to help managers become effective communicators in today's hybrid workplace. Harvard professor Frances Frei and leadership coach Anne Morriss guide guest Danielle—an experienced director of communications—through diagnosing persistent problems, exploring new solutions, and sharing actionable strategies to create meaningful change. Expect insights on information overload, the limits of digital tools like Slack, and why simplicity, repetition, and cultural alignment are non-negotiable for workplace communication success.

---

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Defining the Communication Challenge

• Hybrid & Remote Overload: Danielle describes her company's shift from a small, communicative startup to a 400-person remote-first operation, leading to overwhelming flows of information—especially on Slack ([05:30]–[07:00]).
• Survey Findings: A recent internal survey exposed that only 42% of employees see their manager as a reliable source of internal communication—a highly uncommon result.
• Danielle's Core Question:
  “In the hybrid world of work, what should we actually focus on to help managers be great communicators? What have you seen work best?” ([03:26]–[04:10])

2. Diagnosis: Variability, Design, and Capability

• Framework for Underperformance: Anne frames the problem using their “capability, motivation, license” diagnostic—asking if it’s skill, will, or structural permission that’s missing ([07:44]–[08:16]).
• Pockets of Excellence: Frances points out, “There are always some who have gotten it right… find out who does it well and see what they do that’s different” ([04:40]–[05:03]).
• Organizational Design Imperative: “Organizations are perfectly designed for the results they get,” Anne notes, emphasizing the need for systemic tweaks over ad hoc fixes ([13:49]).

3. The Slack Problem & Information Chaos

• Slack’s Double-Edged Sword:
  • Too many messages and channels blur important information; expectations of self-curation are unrealistic for employees ([06:33], [15:01]).
  • Frances: “Your managers have an impossible task right now… They don’t even know which channels their people are subscribing to.” ([16:01]–[16:42])
• Cultural Tension: Danielle hesitates to impose new 'rules' that could stifle the company’s open, self-directed culture ([17:42]).
• Recommended Approach: Open, participatory problem-solving—inviting cross-section teams to help redesign communication workflows, reflecting cultural values ([18:29]).

4. Becoming Explicit: Principles & Processes

• Explicit Communication Principles:
  Danielle shares her company’s success with explicit rituals for meetings (“leave room for informal connection”), but admits no guidance exists for Slack usage ([19:37]).
• Adapting to Scale: Tools and practices that worked at 50 people don't serve an organization of 400.

5. Deep Simplicity, Repetition, and Message Design

• The Need for Simplicity: Frances urges, “I have to understand the important message so deeply I can describe it simply… Most of us stop way short of that.” ([21:50])
• Repetition is Key:
  Anne: “We’re really afraid of repetition for some reason. We think it’s boring. That’s a hill I will die on… research backs you up totally on that repetition point.” ([23:24]–[23:47])
• Measure by Retention, Not by Output: Communication is effective only when evidence shows the message is received and understood ([13:49]; George Bernard Shaw quote).

6. Embracing Multimedia & New Technology

• Leverage Video & Audio:
  • Short, well-designed videos (≤5 minutes) are far more effective; people retain more watching at 1.5–1.7x speed and most prefer audio while in motion ([24:02]–[28:33]).
  • Subtitles and well-produced content matter.
• AI as a Communication Concierge:
  • AI tools can help employees quickly find answers and even summarize complex information in plain language.
  • Frances: “AI is going to be a really good solution for you… When you put all your internal documents into an AI bot… you can behind the scenes see the questions that people ask… and if you don’t like the answers… tune the AI.” ([30:03]–[32:16])
  • Must proactively teach employees to use AI effectively (“level three” prompts, not just basic questions).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Frances ([04:40]): “There are always some who have gotten it right… find out who does it well and see what they do that’s different from the people who don’t.”
• Anne ([13:49]): “Organizations are perfectly designed for the results that they get.”
• Anne ([13:49]): “The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” (George Bernard Shaw)
• Frances ([16:01]): “Your managers have an impossible task right now… There’s just no chance [to separate signal from noise] if you’re in 10 of those channels.”
• Danielle ([20:09]): “Cats and dogs worked when we were 50. It’s not working now.”
• Frances ([23:24]): “Most of us stop way short… we describe the important message in a complicated way… We need deeply, simply communication.”
• Anne ([23:47]): “Particularly smart people resist [repetition]. But that is the way as the environment gets noisier… people are able to absorb what’s important, when you keep repeating it.”
• Frances ([24:28]): “People that listened to the video at 1.7x retain more than people that listened at 1x… Audio is better than video… the highest retention comes when listening in motion.”
• Frances ([28:33]): “For video… have the summary come up in block words… break it up… It’s an art form.”
• Frances ([30:11]): “When you put all of your internal documents into an AI bot that people can query… you can see the questions that were asked and tune the bot.”
• Anne ([21:32]): “E.O. Wilson: We have prehistoric minds, medieval institutions, and the technology of the gods… our technology is moving at an astonishing pace.”
• Anne ([29:23]): “We’re not having the conversation I thought we would. But I’m getting so much out of it… You’ve got me pumped again about my job.”
• Anne ([36:52]): “It’s not about clarity—it’s about making your presence felt. And I think that challenge… is harder and more urgent than ever as a core capability of leadership.”

---

Actionable Takeaways

For Communication Leaders:

• Audit existing practices and gather cross-functional teams to co-create new communication norms, especially for digital tools like Slack.
• Spotlight and scale practices from internal “pockets of excellence.”
• Be explicit about communication principles at scale; what worked small may require new rules and rituals.

For Managers:

• Embrace message simplicity and repetition; measure by employee understanding, not just content volume.
• Use video/audio strategically—short, well-edited, designed for quick, repeated, and multi-modal consumption.

For Organizations:

• Train everyone—including managers and staff—how to use AI for self-service information, not just basic lookups.
• Make communication process improvements reflect the organization’s values—not just top-down decrees.

---

Memorable Moment

The “Cats and Dogs” Slack Dilemma ([16:42]–[20:11]) Frances and Anne riff on the realness and absurdity of Slack communication chaos, with Frances warning:
“Don’t take away the cats and dogs. Let me just tell you—that’s it. Don’t do that yet. Because that signals a change in the… [culture].”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:26] Danielle’s Challenge: Managers and communication in a hybrid workplace
• [07:44] Diagnosing underperformance: Capability, motivation, or license?
• [13:49] Organizational design and Shaw’s “illusion” quote
• [16:01] Slack’s chaos—managers can’t curate info
• [18:29] Bottom-up process: crowdsourcing solutions
• [21:32] Technology outpaces our Paleolithic brains (E.O. Wilson reference)
• [23:24] The necessity—and resistance to—repetition
• [24:28] Video/audio learning efficiency & science
• [30:11] AI as a solution and the need for upskilling
• [36:52] Leadership means making your presence felt

---

Tone & Style

The episode is lively, open, and packed with actionable advice—mixing the hosts’ sharp expertise and warmth with Danielle’s honest, practical perspective. Candid storytelling and humor (“don’t take away the cats and dogs!”) keep technical discussion accessible and engaging.

---

Final Thoughts

This conversation is an energizing, hope-filled guide for anyone wrestling with workplace communication in a remote, digital era. Frances and Anne model what it looks like to tackle old problems in new, evidence-based ways—and their optimism is infectious. As Danielle says:
“You’ve got me pumped again about my job. I am always a little bit pumped, but I’m extra pumped.” ([29:23])

---

For more episodes or to share your own workplace conundrum, contact Fixable at 234-FIXABLE (234-349-2253).

Transcript

[Anne Morris]

Hello everyone. We heard you loud and clear that you wanted advice on a special topic, and we have some exciting news for you. We're now planning a series on Fixable to help you with your confidence at work, and we need your help to make it happen. What are your most pressing questions and problems when it comes to building and maintaining confidence in your job? Please give us a call at 234 Fixable. That's 234-349-2253 and let us know what's on your mind. We can't wait to hear from you.

[Jeff]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts?

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me.

[Dana]

So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them it's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate Pro camera system.

[Jeff]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Anne Morris]

Nice.

[Dana]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeff]

T Mobile is the best place to.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff]

So what are we having for lunch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit same debts due to payoff earlier Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1090 A new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklip Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025 Visit t mobile.com this.

[Wise App Announcer]

Podcast is brought to you by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With Wise, you can send, spend and receive up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps and save up to 55% compared to major banks. Plus wise won't add hidden fees to your transfer. Whether you're buying souvenirs with pesos in Puerto Vallarta or sending Euros to a loved one in Paris, you know you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be Smart join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com Learn more by visiting wise.com US Compare Ts and Cs apply if you've.

[McDonald's Representative]

Built a business or a career, you know there's no substitute for knowing how to do things right. Especially when the market's unpredictable. That's why Dante cleaves is glad McDonald's invests heavily in education.

[Wise App Announcer]

I came in with experience. What McDonald's taught me was how to run a restaurant and run a business. Real operational death. Leadership development, tech training and support that never stops.

[McDonald's Representative]

Learn how the right training can raise your game@McDonald's.com franchise this information is not an offer of a franchise. An offering is made by Prospectus only.

[Anne Morris]

This is fixable. A podcast from TED I'm your host, Anne Morris. I'm a company builder and leadership coach.

[Frances Frey]

And I'm your co host, Frances Fry. I'm a Harvard Business School professor. And I'm. I'm Ann's wife.

[Anne Morris]

On today's show, we're going to talk about communication in the workplace. Our fixer today is Danielle. She's the director of communications, focused primarily on external audiences, mainly customers. But internal communication has been a challenge for her and her colleagues.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, it's going to be fun to explore. Are communications different externally and internally?

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. What transfers, what doesn't? I'm excited to get into this with her, so let's listen to her voicemail.

[Danielle]

I've been working in communication for a little over 20 years, and there's one challenge I feel like I've been thinking about my entire career. It's something that, in my opinion, we've never really cracked as a profession, and that's helping all managers communicate effectively. I've tried a lot of different things, training tools, a communication cascade process. Some of these things worked, but none of them really stand out as the solution to this problem that I'm experiencing. I don't think I'm the only one. We know manager relations are as important as ever. We're hearing a lot about communication overwhelm. So here's my question. In the hybrid world of work, what should we actually focus on to help managers be great communicators? What have you seen work best? And what can we learn from companies.

[Anne Morris]

That are really nailing this Frances reaction?

[Frances Frey]

The beautiful thing about communications are there's just so many options. And so what we're going to have to do is help her curate which subset of those options are going to be best for her.

[Anne Morris]

You know, communication is a means to an end. So one thing I really want to push on with her is what's the end? What does good look like? What is she trying to solve for when she gets better at this and when the managers around her get better at this?

[Frances Frey]

You know, a red flag I have from the voicemail is whenever Somebody says, and no one has gotten it right in our whole profession. In my experience, that's not true for anything. There are always some who have gotten it right. And so I feel pretty confident that part of the answer is going to be find out who does it well and see what they do that's different from the people who don't do it, that don't do it well.

[Anne Morris]

And not just in her profession, but in her orbit and in her organization. How do we learn from the great communicators. Yeah, from the good communicators around her and the good communicator inside her. Because she's obviously doing this well. She's chosen this profession. So I'm also going to push her on the patterns in her own life when this really worked. Danielle, welcome to Fixable.

[Danielle]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Anne Morris]

So in your organization right now, where do you see a lack of communication or ineffective communication getting in the way of progress?

[Danielle]

You know, we are a remote first company, so we are speaking to each other virtually and we're around 400 and we grew quite fast. So we have a lot of people who have a lot to share and are doing it in channels where we are all a part of it, which I think was very reflective of our startup beginnings. But what it does today is it creates a tremendous amount of information and I think it's hard for people to understand what's important. So we did a survey recently to check the state of our internal communications and people are overwhelmed and they don't exactly know what they should be paying attention to.

[Anne Morris]

I love the texture you're bringing to this. So what is the literal form of the too much communication? Is it too many emails? Is it too many slack messages? Tell us how this is presenting literally for people.

[Danielle]

So it's too many slack messages in too many slack places. Is the primary feedback I am reflected or that's reflected to me. I don't know which ones to be paying attention to and what is the information that matters most and then how does it apply to me in my role making that connection? Because they're consuming in all kinds of places and it's not necessarily coming through is more. I think what we're hearing is challenging for people. And if I can, at the other end, twice a year we bring all of our employees to Montreal, which is where we're based, for two days. And it's the feedback from the clarity that they get in these two instances is huge. So that's the other end of the scale. People are saying when you do that for me. I am so clear on where we're going. I understand how I contribute and I'm so excited. And then in the day to day we lose some of that momentum and it gets lost. I don't know if I'm allowed, but the reason why I wrote to you was when we did the survey, people are saying my manager's not really a source of communication. It was really low, something like 42% and I've never seen that before. That's really uncommon.

[Anne Morris]

Our listeners will have heard us talk about a framework for diagnosing underperformance. Essentially, it comes down to three things. Is it a capability issue, is it a motivation issue, is it a license issue in the sense that people have the freedom to perform in the way you want them to perform? Am I hearing you correctly in saying that your theory of this case is that it's a capability issue on the part of managers? They don't know how to communicate effectively in this current environment. Is that accurate?

[Danielle]

Yes, that's a hypothesis that I have. I think to your point around license, I don't know that it's always clear to them that it's the role depending on how they've come to the path of manager. So it's a mix, I think. And you know, in my job I help a lot of executives and we do a communication plan and we help them with their tone and I know how to make really clear PowerPoints and they get, you know, a lot of really tailored custom help and then the managers are really left to their own devices.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, it sounds like from your voicemail you have tried a couple of things to solve the problem. What have you tried and what have you learned from whatever happened next?

[Danielle]

So, you know, we've tried. We do a lot of toolkits in a reorg. When you're in a massive organization, typically you'll prepare some Q&As for your managers, maybe some key messages you want them to reinforce. Tried some training, tried also to model it at the highest level of the organization so that they see what good or great can look like. We have cascades that we've tried where you would go to a CEO town hall, let's say, and then after you as a manager get some material and you're asked to, to reinforce that with your team. Honestly, none of it has blown my socks off and I wonder about whether it's had an impact at all or whether people are even doing it. So I don't know. I have never cracked it. That's why I'm here.

[Anne Morris]

And I want to close the kind of interrogation part of this conversation. So, Danielle, what were you hoping to get out of coming on the show today?

[Danielle]

Is there a practice, like one thing that we could start today that would help our managers be better communicators or. I'm a listener and I know sometimes you guys have an example from a company that's nailing it. Is there someone out there that I just don't know about that's just nailing manager communication? And you will impart that knowledge to me.

[Anne Morris]

Beautiful. Thank you for being a listener. We love talking to our listeners and engaging deeply in this way. So Francis, summarize for us where we are.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. So the existing way that communications have been designed is ineffective. A hypothesis is that it's the managers that are being ineffective. We're gonna test that hypothesis. I think that there's probably some other hypotheses that we'll be able to bring into it, but we have variably effective communications and we wanna reduce the variability in. That is where I see it. Which makes it a very classic problem. Here's the good news. There are pockets of excellence. So when somebody comes to us with no pockets of excellence, we got to go look outside. I don't know that we have to go look outside. I think we're going to get a lot of answers by looking inside the organization and by using our tools on the capability, motivation and license.

[Anne Morris]

Danielle, what's your reaction to that summary?

[Danielle]

I feel like I was for one second defensive about the variability of the effectiveness of the communication. But it's true, it's true because we. And I'm. And then I'm very glad to hear you reflect back that there are pockets of excellence. So I have this problem that I had diagnosis. It's my manager communication. But I think you're right in saying that it might be a bit broader than that, but that we're doing some things great and isn't that wonderful?

[Frances Frey]

We just have to make that contagious. And if you want to ask me the follow up question of how confident am I that we're going to come up with the solution? 100%.

[Danielle]

I like those odds.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I never look so good.

[Frances Frey]

You look the same.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

But with this camera, everything looks better, especially me.

[Frances Frey]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check, please.

[Verizon Announcer]

New and existing customers can get the new iPhone 17 Pro, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever with eligible phone, trade in and unlimited ultimate any condition guaranteed. Best 5G Swords Root Metrics data United States 12025 all rights reserve, trade and additional terms apply for all offers. See verizon.com for details.

[Wise App Announcer]

This podcast is brought to you by WISE, the app for international people using money around the globe. With Wise, you can send, spend and receive up to 40 currenc with only a few simple taps and save up to 55% compared to major banks. Plus, wise won't add hidden fees to your transfer. Whether you're buying souvenirs with pesos in Puerto Vallarta or sending Euros to a loved one in Paris, you know you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be Smart join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com Learn more by visiting wise.com us/compare Ts and Cs apply what makes a.

[Warby Parker Announcer]

Great pair of glasses at Warby Parker it's all the invisible extras without the extra cost. Their designer quality frames start at $95 including prescription lenses plus scratch resistant, smudge resistant and anti reflective coatings and UV protection and free adjustments for life. To find your next pair of glasses, sunglasses or contact lenses, or to find the Warby Parker store nearest you, head over to warbyparker.com that's warbyparker.com.

[Anne Morris]

All right, so now we're going to move into solutions here. I'm going to give us two jumping off points. Organizations are perfectly designed for the results that they get, right? So it's people sometimes feel attacked initially. But there's so much good news embedded in that sentence because if we take a design thinking approach to this and we tweak some of the inputs, then we get different outputs. So that's, I think where we're going to start. But I also want to give us for inspiration one of my favorite quotes from George Bernard Shaw, who said that the biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. So really judging our effectiveness by not how hard we tried, but really whether we have evidence that it's actually occurring is, I think, another key principle in this conversation. Sound like reasonable starting. I'm excited.

[Frances Frey]

I'm super excited. We believe you have a lot of stamina. I mean, if I can go right to the punchline, you might even have too much stamina. So we're going to try to take away some of your stamina so that we can get confronted with the problem a little bit more quickly so we can Solve it.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Your willingness to absorb pain too high is too high.

[Frances Frey]

Too high.

[Anne Morris]

Yes.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, hi. How do you know this already about me?

[Anne Morris]

Because we are professionals and we're the professionals.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

I feel so seen. It's so embarrassing.

[Frances Frey]

I have a couple of diagnostic questions. The first one's about Slack. Do you use Slack to communicate important company things or is that more the informal day to day way in which we interact with people?

[Danielle]

We communicate important things.

[Frances Frey]

Okay. And then are there Slack channels for unimportant things? Like is there the cats versus Dogs slack channel?

[Danielle]

We certainly do have those.

[Anne Morris]

So Francis, channel your enthusiasm to getting us started here. I see the glint in your eye.

[Frances Frey]

No, I have a glint in my eye. And it was at Cats and Dogs on the Slack channel that really did it. Because that's the question for how much variety is used on this channel. Because I can subscribe to as many Slack channels as I want and Danielle probably doesn't even know. So she doesn't know how many cats and dogs channels I'm subscribed to and so she doesn't know the volume of inputs that I'm getting. So my first thought is just letting Slack run wild and expecting that through the wild signal to noise will occur when I'm subscribing to a different number of channels than the other people are. So I think your managers have an impossible task right now, which is they don't even know which channels their people are subscribing to. Now here's why I'm super optimistic. You've already told us that some organizational design works really well. So important works really well. Even general works well.

[Anne Morris]

So excited about important.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, I am too. General works well.

[Anne Morris]

It's clear.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, it's so clear. Right. General works well is actually quite a surprise to me. That's usually the catch all for everything else. But I think you have a design problem which is all of the rest of it. When we think about when communication works, we have to. The volume of it matters vis a vis the rest of the volume. So that's why I started asking about non slack because there's just too many. I mean, and you would maybe not be surprised at how many cats and dogs messages come in a day. And then if you're on 10 of those channels, there's just no chance.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, I've just had an intuitive aversion. I think it's a really powerful tool. But I.

[Frances Frey]

But it has to be.

[Anne Morris]

But my brain can't handle all of that stimulus all day.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. So that's One thing is that I feel like we expecting the uncurated slack to help everybody separate signal from noise. I think that's not going to work.

[Danielle]

The thing I've been wondering about, because again, to contrast with the corporate world where people would come to the comms team and say, hey, I want to send something to all employees. Can you vet this here? It's way more Wild west, which also is the good of our culture. And there was a message that went in general maybe last week. And I thought, man, this is really not the spot for it. Because I've been thinking about the noise and I was trying to picture myself give the feedback to this individual around, this isn't the right channel and to redirect. And I'm thinking a lot about the.

[Frances Frey]

Culture and I'm worried about, yeah, I wouldn't do that. I love your hesitation. Because here's the thing. We don't want private solutions, okay? We want public solutions. The solution is not gonna be you taking aside a few people and doing it, because that will lead to variable outcomes, which is what we have.

[Anne Morris]

Can I go up one layer on this? There's a larger question in this whole conversation, Danielle, about how do you solve this problem in a way that reflects the culture and values of the organization? And Danielle, the communication czar coming in with new rules of engagement is not going to work. This can be a pretty broad campaign. Come to the company away and say, look, this isn't working and I want us to solve this problem together. I have a couple of ideas. Or let's put a group together to solve the problem that who? People who care passionately about this. Let's get the people who love the cats and the dogs and the like who love slack and hate slack. Let's put a team together and empower them with gathering the data and solving the problem and coming back to the group and getting them. It has to end with order out of chaos. I think your fundamental question may not be what is the solution to this problem? I think it's, what is the process we're going to follow and you are going to lead as a company to get to the right answer.

[Danielle]

I mean, it's a beautiful solution that you're proposing, and it's so simple, and I think it's so right. And we have principles of communication and collaboration that are written out. And we do things like we leave room for informal connection. So it's the first time in a meeting where we take like five minutes to be like, how are you? And check in, and people really connect to that and they follow it. We have. We're remote first. We're. But nowhere in there is that. Here's how we do Slack. It probably really should have existed and I think it's a symptom of our growth because cats and dogs worked, I think when we were 50.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

It's not working now.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, well, and here's the thing, like don't take away the cats and dogs. Let me just tell you that that's it. Don't do that yet. Because that signals a change in the.

[Anne Morris]

Cult Slack specific problem that needs to be solved with urgency. But I also think there's a larger question on how are we going to communicate as a company in this moment. A lot has changed in the last 18 months. Certainly a lot has changed since the company has started. Not just in the scale of the organization and the number of humans who have come together to advance your mission, but also the communication tools and the amount of noise people are being asked to absorb just from their phones over the course of the day. So how is this organization together going to decide to operate from a communication standpoint in this environment? And how are you going to get to those rules? To me, those are the strategic questions. Francis hears me talk about this quote all the time. But E.O. wilson, when he was asked, you know, what is our problem as a species? He said, yeah, we have prehistoric minds, medieval institution and the technology of the gods. Right. So our prehistoric minds are not evolving very quickly. We're still stuck in the Paleolithic age.

[Frances Frey]

Right.

[Anne Morris]

But the technology of the gods is moving at an astonishing pace. And that includes communication tools.

[Danielle]

And our institutions are still pretty creaky.

[Anne Morris]

Right. You know, Shakespeare would recognize them both the dynamics and the structures themselves. So how do you as an organization and as a communications professional take responsibility for that dynamic? That is the question that's in front of you. And I think it's bigger than slack.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. Let me also offer another one, which is that what we know about communication and your communication challenge is greater than the typical organization because you're all remote. It's not enough for me to tell you the important message. I have to understand the important message so deeply that I can describe it simply. And most of us stop way short of that. And we describe the important message in a complicated, relatively long way. So if I was going to say, what's the training that the organization needs? It's on deeply, simply communication, which is that we really one is we got to figure out the channel to send it to because at some Point you just can't win the volume game. And you and the channels work in your organization. So. But the other one is, I bet important things are communicated in what I would call complicated form, which is either, you know, lots of detail or lots of length. And so that's the second thing I would offer, and I'd love to get your reaction to it is if. If an anthropologist came in and observed the organization and its communication of. Of these important things that are not in the important channel, what grade would you. Would the organization get on? Deeply, simply communication. Like when the managers are communicating, when people are communicating. How much opportunity is there to get better at that? Is my question for you.

[Danielle]

I think we have too much complexity. We say things once and we say things once.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, that's another category that's not good.

[Danielle]

And we're really afraid of repetition for some reason. We think it's boring. That's a hill I will die on. I talk about repetition all the time. But then I think so I think we do too long, we do too complicated. We don't repeat enough in many pockets. So to your point, the communication chain. We're blaming the manager. But you're right, it's a failing from us originally and there's so much room to grow there.

[Anne Morris]

Danielle, the research backs you up totally on that repetition point. So keep the campaign going. Particularly smart people resist it. But that is the way as the environment gets noisier, that is the way that people are able to absorb. What's important is when you keep repeating.

[Frances Frey]

It and how well it's landed is if I randomly ask three people to say it to me and they say it in three different ways. It didn't land well. That's why we need it. Okay, so here's the thing about video. Your 1.7x is exactly right. But here's what you might be surprised about. When we test the retention of people of the what? The content that was in the video. People that listened to it at 1.7x retain more than people that listened to it at 1x.

[Anne Morris]

Really?

[Frances Frey]

Isn't that awesome?

[Danielle]

That's super interesting.

[Frances Frey]

It's super Interesting. So 1x is good live because we're processing all of the other stuff. But on video, most people. I'm still talking to you as if we're live. If somebody watched the video of this, if they sped it up, it would hit their brain better because they don't have to process all of the surround sound. So one point, it's between what? It's usually around 1.5 1.7 was so. Was so close to it. So that's the first thing. And you can test it, but that's the first part. So I wouldn't. I actually consider that a feature, not a bug. So here's the beautiful thing about video versus live. Even if I play back a video, let's say that you had an hour live meeting and I missed it, but I get to watch the 1.5x. Well, it just took me less time and I'm going to know it better than the people that were there. That's what I want you to fall in love with about video. Video can be higher effectiveness than other ones because we can speed it up and that's what hits our brain. Now here's the other fun thing. Audio is better than video. So create the video, but realize that most people will consume the video as audio. So some people will consume the video as subtitles. And we usually consider subtitles an afterthought. Make sure the subtitles are right. I can't believe how many organizations have the subtitles wrong. Make them right. But when people are consuming it as audio, so the people that have the highest retention are listening to the audio at 1.5x while they're in motion. So what I should do is listen to the video, not watch the video while I'm on a walk or a run. That's when the highest retention comes in. So you see already, like the new technology gives us, if we look at the biology of how things work, it opens up so much more potential for doing it. Because now look what just got freed up on my calendar. You had to spend an hour. I get to watch it at 1.5x and I get to exercise at the same time. My calendar just became much more appealing than your calendar. Those are the unlocks that we want to look for. So each additional channel, and I'm going to ask you to respond to that and then I'm going to give you even another channel. But I'd love to hear your reaction to the video.

[Danielle]

So first, the audio. I mean, I live it. And I know I'm not a case study for everyone, but I love podcasts and I do it while I'm doing other things. I'm doing laundry, I'm doing dishes, I'm going for walks. And you're right, I do. I mean, I'm listening to things I'm interested in, but I am absorbing it really deeply, intimately.

[Frances Frey]

Because you probably have headphones on. Like there's some intimacy associated with it. But here's another Thing. The ideal length of a video, unless you are super varsity, and I mean really varsity, the ideal length of a video is about five minutes. Five minutes or less. So if you have, you know, a message like let's say you guys wanted to come up with a communication, a talking head for 10 minutes, you will be embarrassed to watch the drop off, but you won't be surprised to watch the drop off. So we, for video, you've got to do so many things. You got to zoom in, zoom out, have the summary come up in the block words and if you can break it up so it's its own art form, you know that. So we have to treat video as the superpower it is. But the art form that it is and we want to get it has to have really intelligent design. And I have to tell you, the people that are good at this, it's so good and watching good videos, I mean, look at what happens on YouTube. Like I have to assure you the videos are good. My kids stay on YouTube for a very long time. We want to bring that intelligent design video is a super well understood topic now. Don't ignore it when you go, embrace it when you go to your own corporate communications. And by the way, make sure that your designers are like no older than 30.

[Danielle]

Just to make you laugh. I want to do a really fun video and it's inspired by pop up videos. Do you remember that from mtv?

[Frances Frey]

I sure do. I sure do. I sure do. And that tells me how old you are, Danielle. And while you and I will appreciate that, bring some, bring some scrappy, bring some young friends.

[Danielle]

Oh yeah, my Gen Z watched pop up video. She says it's. She's learning so much about the past with me.

[Frances Frey]

Yes. So that's, I think so. The video one I think could be a great unlock. And again, just giving it to you there. Now let me tell Francis.

[Anne Morris]

Can I just check in with our.

[Frances Frey]

Sorry, sorry. So sorry.

[Anne Morris]

We've thrown a lot of stuff at you, Danielle.

[Danielle]

I'm loving it.

[Anne Morris]

I'd love to know what's landing. Are you getting what you came for here on Fixable today? Give us a little feedback.

[Danielle]

We are not having the.

[Anne Morris]

Where are we on the map?

[Danielle]

We're not having the conversation I thought we would. But I'm getting so much out of it. And you're right and it's confirming some of my instincts and it's pushing me to go further on others. It's giving me good talking points because I'm going to say Anne and Francis said it in my organization Which I love. No, I'm so excited for everything. It's so bang on. This is why you're the pros. I'm really pumped about this. You've got me pumped again about my job. I mean, I am always a little bit pumped, but I'm extra pumped.

[Anne Morris]

That's our favorite metric of success. If we get to send people back out in the world more excited to do their jobs and we feel good about doing ours.

[Frances Frey]

Can I give a final frontier?

[Anne Morris]

You may give one final.

[Frances Frey]

One final frontier. And this is it. It's the last one. And Anne, it's inspired by your technology of the gods. AI is going to be a really good solution for you.

[Anne Morris]

Yes.

[Frances Frey]

Because when you put all of your internal documents into an AI bot that people can query and then they can ask it questions and then they can say, please summarize it in two sentences. And the thing about an AI bot, which is all companies will at some point have all of their internal documents and all of their messaging that will also reside in the AI bot. And you can behind the scenes see the questions that people ask. You don't know who asked them, but you can see the questions that were asked, the answers that were given. And if you don't like the answers that were given, tuning the AI bot is putting in a memo that gives it a different answer and then that will be the one that happens. Because what when we teach people how to use AI and we have to teach people how to use AI, you can ask it a question of like, you know, what's the best way to communicate and it'll give you a long thing and say, can you summarize that in two sentences for my boss? Can you make it punchier? Can you use simpler language? Can you use it in the context of this? Like I believe AI is going to solve so many of these problems. So instead of our only pushing communication, we want to be able to go to a trusted, quiet, non chaotic place that is a one stop shopping that anytime we have a question we can go and ask the AI bot. So I suspect you either have or on the verge of having an AI bot. And I just want to, so I want to test that and then I want to encourage you to move along on that.

[Danielle]

We're pretty far along, we're building, that's part of our product. So we are very high adoption. And one of the first things we did was we moved our intranet from SharePoint into Confluence and Workleap. AI is the tool that we use and people can, you know, we're seeing it. When is performance management cycle? What are the dates for the gathering? So they're not the pages that we wrote that were, you know, trying to make it very accessible, digestible, etc. That's not how people are consuming the content already. I think it's like 20% pretty, pretty strong. So it's changing everything for sure.

[Frances Frey]

But here's the thing, they're just going there for factual information. We find that you have to train people on how to use AI in a more sophisticated way and ask it more sophisticated questions. And so that will be a fun thing to do, is to reveal to people the power of what you can and show them the prompts and what can happen and, and help unleash their using it. So you have them using, I would call it level one. You want to get the organization up to like level three. And it will. They will be delighted Once you've set them free with it and they understand what they can do, there's no putting it back in the barn.

[Anne Morris]

And also push yourself on your own adoption curve for these tools, which are literally getting better every single day, daily. And how are you integrating them creatively into doing your job better, faster, in more interesting ways? Danielle, did you get what you came for on Fixable today?

[Danielle]

I got more than what I came for. This was delightful.

[Anne Morris]

It's not a fair question, but we're still going to ask it. You are such a delightful thought partner.

[Frances Frey]

Oh my goodness, yes.

[Anne Morris]

Thrilled that you reached out to us. And we are super optimistic that you're going to make fast progress.

[Frances Frey]

You are exactly the right person to do it. You have optimism and can do spirit. And so I'm really looking forward to learning which specific things worked out in practice in your beautiful organization.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I never looked so good.

[Frances Frey]

You look the same.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

But with this camera, everything looks better. Especially me.

[Frances Frey]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check please.

[Verizon Announcer]

New and existing customers can get the new iPhone 17 Pro. Designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever, with eligible phone, trade in and unlimited ultimate any condition guaranteed. Best 5G towards root metrics data United States 1H 2025 All Rights Reserve, Trade and additional terms apply for all offers. See verizon.com for details.

[Wise App Announcer]

This podcast is brought to you by WISE, the app for international people using money around the globe. With WISE, you can send, spend and receive up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps and save up to 55% compared to major banks. Plus, wise won't add hidden fees to your transfer. Whether you're buying souvenirs with pesos in Puerto Vallarta or sending Euros to a loved one in Paris, you know you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be Smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com learn more by visiting wise.com us compare Ts and Cs.

[Dana]

Apply Bombas makes the most comfortable Socks.

[Frances Frey]

Underwear and T shirts.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Bombas are so absurdly comfortable, you may throw out all your other clothes.

[Danielle]

Sorry, do we legally have to say that?

[Boost Mobile Expert]

No, this is just how I talk. And I really love my Bombas.

[Dana]

They do feel that good. And they do good, too. One item purchased equals one item donated. To feel good and do good, go to bombas.com and use code audio for.

[Danielle]

20% off your first purchase.

[Dana]

That's B O m b a s.com.

[Danielle]

And use code audio at checkout.

[Anne Morris]

I was thinking a lot about your colleague, your lovely colleague Sidal Neely research with Paul Leonardi, where they just followed companies around and leaders in company and just recorded every communication they sent and received. And one of the findings was that when leaders were repetitive and redundant, which, as a. As an artist, as an artist, as a communications artist myself, I so resist. I'm going to craft the perfect message. I'm going to say it once, and obviously it's going to land. But their research refuted that premise, like, so soundly that it still hurts when I look back. And when Paul was interviewed on this, one of the things he said is, we're so bred to believe that clarity is the key to being a better communicator. And it's actually about making your presence felt. And I think that challenge of making your presence felt is harder and more urgent than ever as a very core capability of leadership.

[Frances Frey]

And if I was gonna augment that beautiful sentence, I would say, making your presence felt amidst the cats and dogs channels.

[Anne Morris]

Yes. Because in these remote environments, we do have to encourage people to bring their dimensionality into work. Literally, in screens, we get to reduce to two dimensions. And so these tools allow us to do that. And it's important, but we gotta balance it. And clear rules of the road is the way to do it. And everyone's feeling this pain. And that's why I'm optimistic about any subset of them that you say solved the problem. They're all feeling the pain. They all want the problem to be solved. And so I think you can have a lot of faith in a bottom up solution for a lot of these problems.

[Frances Frey]

And how you began is I think exactly right part which is we are getting the reliable outcomes from the design. We just probably weren't explicit about the design. We were implicit. So we're gonna take responsibility for being explicit and then we're going to pivot the design and learn just like any good experimentation. But there were so many wonderful things.

[Anne Morris]

So Francis, what did you like about what I said?

[Frances Frey]

Well, so this is going to be.

[Anne Morris]

A new feature of our debriefs.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Frances Frey]

So let me. So I'll tell you what I liked about your so order out of chaos. When I was going into the weeds and you brought us up to the order out of chaos and it's just that for all of it, I completely that the technology is advancing at a much faster rate than us. So what are we gonna do about that? I loved that part.

[Anne Morris]

Listeners, this is our Scooby moment.

[Frances Frey]

This is our Scooby snack.

[Anne Morris]

So in earlier seasons you probably heard us talk about the power of scoobies and catching each other doing something right.

[Frances Frey]

And we do. And the reason we do it is so that you can know to do more of it. And so, and when you noticed me getting super excited and I was gonna go and go and go and then you were like, let's bring the listener in. Yeah, I mean let's bring the caller in and let's ask, let's ask them how it's handing. So I thought that your way station, your markings putting up the signage and controlling me a little bit because I can be a whole lot of puppy when I get excited. And you helped me pace it and you also helped elevate it.

[Anne Morris]

And part of the solution to whole lot of puppy, which we all can be, is one, self awareness. But two, bring people around and give them license, you know, to put up some guardrails.

[Frances Frey]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Your participation helps us make great episodes just like this one. So please keep reaching out directly. If you want to figure out any questions about your workplace problem together, send us a message.

[Anne Morris]

Email call text [e-mail] or 234 FIXABLE. That's 2343492253 FIXABLE is a podcast from TED. It's hosted by me, Anne Morris and me, Frances Frey. This episode was produced by Rahima Nassa from Pushkin Industries. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Baloraiso and Roxanne Hi, Lash.

[Frances Frey]

And our show was mixed by Louis at storyyard.

[Anne Morris]

Knock knock.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Ooh, who's there?

[Frances Frey]

A boost mobile expert here to deliver and set up your all new iPhone 17 Pro designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

You called that a knock knock joke?

[Frances Frey]

This isn't a joke. Boost mobile really sends experts to deliver and set up your phone at home or work.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Okay, it's just that when people say knock knock, there's usually a joke to go with it.

[Frances Frey]

Like I said, this isn't a joke.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

So the knock knock was just you knocking?

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, that's how doors work.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro delivered and set up by an expert wherever you are. Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms apply.

[Jeff]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So. Dana.

[Dana]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Jeff]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best nut work.

[Anne Morris]

Nice.

[Dana]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeff]

T mobile is the best place to.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff]

So what are we having for lunch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Boost Mobile Expert]

The 24 month credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers. Plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1,099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in US based on analysis by Ookla Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025 Visit T mobile.com In a world of seismic change, will your business shape the future or be shaped by it? How will we capture the imagination of tomorrow's consumers? Overcome operational constraints to focus on future growth and unlock economic and social prosperity through environmental responsibilities. With EY's full spectrum of services across.

[Jeff]

Sectors, we're all in to shape the future with confidence.

[Anne Morris]

Start your transformation [e-mail] transformation.