Podcast Summary: Fixable — "How to Get Your Confidence Back"

Date: February 3, 2025
Hosts: Anne Morriss & Frances Frei
Guest Caller: "Emma" (pseudonym), product manager

Main Theme

The episode dives into common workplace confidence challenges, focusing on how to reclaim and navigate authentic self-assurance as a leader—especially when one’s natural confidence has been repeatedly labeled “too much.” Anne and Frances coach “Emma,” a young product manager who’s struggling to find her voice with senior colleagues after years of being told to suppress her assertiveness.

Purpose:
To provide practical frameworks and actionable advice for anyone who feels “too much” or “not enough” in their leadership style, and to offer real tools for regaining confidence at work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emma’s Story: From “Too Much” to “Not Enough”

[02:44 - 09:31]

• Emma’s Background:
  Emma describes a career marked by assertiveness that was repeatedly discouraged:

  “I’ve had teachers, friends, even family members constantly tell me that I came across as aggressive or even bitchy… it just felt easier to conform and stifle myself.” (Emma, 02:44)

• Overcorrection:
  In reaction to the negative feedback, Emma began dampening her personality at work—smiling more, softening communications ("does that make sense?"), and second-guessing herself to fit in.

  “I just made this very conscious effort to kind of shift myself so far in the other direction.” (Emma, 07:13)

• Current Challenge:
  Given a major new responsibility, Emma’s anxiety and “subservience” resurfaced during a big presentation to senior leadership, resulting in critical feedback.

  “I just fell right back into... constantly undermining the stuff that I said… I’ve lost a little bit of trajectory within my career as a result.” (Emma, 08:13)

2. Universality of Emma’s Problem

[09:01 - 11:53]

• Anne and Frances both relate on a personal level, underscoring how common this pattern is for rising leaders.

  "Trying to figure out what your leadership voice is as you evolve in an organization… like the number of incredible leaders who have swung and missed at their first time trying to influence people who are more senior to them—100%. Right. You are in incredible company…" (Ann Morris, 10:35)

3. The Baggage Metaphor: Putting Down Old Stories

[12:29 - 13:58]

• Letting Go of History:
  Anne encourages Emma to momentarily “put down the baggage” of past narratives and test what new approaches might feel like.

  “In some ways, we don’t really care how you got here... It is not particularly relevant to what you get to do next.” (Ann Morris, 11:54) “We’re just gonna put [the baggage] down for a second as we kind of play with, like, what’s on the dropdown menu.” (Ann Morris, 12:51)

• Naming the “Too Much” Baggage:
  Emma names her baggage “Steve,” marking a turning point for externalizing old limiting beliefs.

  “I’m gonna name my baggage Steve.” (Emma, 13:52)

4. The Trust Triangle Framework

[17:20 - 23:59]

• Trust Triangle Explained:
  Frances introduces the "Trust Triangle"—authenticity, logic, empathy—as essential for effective leadership and trust-building.

  “The three pillars of trust are… authenticity… logic… and empathy.” (Frances Frei, 17:53)

• Diagnosing the Wobble:
  Emma overcompensates for previously being “too authentic” by dialing up empathy, particularly with senior leaders, which undercut her credibility and authenticity.

  “I went quite a lot heavy on the empathy and it sort of counteracted my credibility... my authenticity came across as really lacking.” (Emma, 20:29) “In the way in which you have inhabited these two, they feel like they have to trade off. We’re going to show you that they don’t.” (Frances Frei, 23:20)

5. Tactics for Reclaiming Confidence

[29:01 - 36:56]

• Confidence as a Byproduct, Not a Prerequisite:
  Anne reframes confidence as a result of action and mastery—not something you wait for before taking action.

  “Confidence is often a byproduct from being trusted in a leadership role ... typically, confidence follows the step.” (Ann Morris, 28:43)

• Preparation & Repetition:
  Give important presentations multiple times—practice with increasing stakes.

• Exposure to Discomfort:
  Deliberate practice in discomfort is key to making effective leadership second nature. Suggestions include:

  • Improv classes (for radical empathy and thinking on your feet)
  • Speaking at conferences or teaching (increasing exposure and “reps”)
  • Setting “stretch goals” for oneself in meetings, like contributing early or asking specific questions

  “The goal is to be effective in the presence of fear. And the only way you get to do that, it’s a learned behavior.” (Frances Frei, 33:19)

• Dealing with Physical Manifestations:
  The hosts normalize nerves and anxiety, emphasizing that the aim isn’t to entirely eliminate them but to function despite them.

  “The remedy is not to stop my voice shaking. The remedy is to not give a shit that it’s shaking and to keep talking.” (Ann Morris, 34:56)

6. Playful, Practical Advice

[36:01 - 37:49]

• Hosts suggest Emma focus on small, low-stakes steps as well:

  • Presenting internally beyond immediate team
  • Teaching what she knows to colleagues

  “Standup comedians will travel to 50 cities in 50 days just to get a group of strangers to try out their material... Doing this with strangers is the way to hone the materials.” (Frances Frei, 36:56)

• Emphasis on “reps” and seeing each experience as practice rather than a final test.

7. Recap, Meta-Reflections & Notable Advice

[40:47 - 45:52]

• Confidence Follows Courageous Action:

  "Confidence is a byproduct. You have confidence on the way out, not the way in." (Frances Frei, 40:50)

• Overpreparation as a Legitimate Tool:
  Frances shares her confidence “hack”—always have an overabundance of content.

  "I am a confident teacher as long as I have an overabundance of content... If I have 50 minutes of material or 60 minutes of material for a 60 minute class... Terrible. And it's all that emotional part. So I need an overabundance to calm the heck down." (Frances Frei, 41:01)

• Notable Tactics:

  • For people who tend to overpower, try “coming in in the middle of conversations” (advice Frances received from a mentor).

    “Why don’t you try coming in in the middle of conversations? It was so freaking helpful to me.” (Frances Frei, 43:10)

  • For under-contributors, set a rule to make two contributions or questions early in meetings.

• “Empathy Theater” vs. Genuine Empathy:
  Frances introduces "empathy theater"—just adding phrases or behaviors without genuine care.

  “So this was a very empathetic person who didn't know how to genuinely express empathy. So she did things as empathy theater.” (Frances Frei, 44:14)

  Anne recommends: even if you start out “faking” empathy, authentic curiosity will eventually follow if you really listen.

• Final Motivation:

  “All your hopes and dreams are on the other side of discomfort.” (Ann Morris, 45:45)

Notable Quotes & Moments (by Timestamp)

• Emma on overcorrecting personality:

  "I just made this very conscious effort to kind of shift myself so far in the other direction." (Emma, 07:13)

• On the universality of the problem:

  "We have all been there. We have all been there." (Ann Morris, 09:01)

• Letting go of history:

  “I just want you to try on the radical idea that… that history may not matter at all.” (Ann Morris, 11:54)

• Naming baggage:

  "I'm gonna name my baggage Steve." (Emma, 13:52)

• On learning to live with discomfort:

  "The goal is to be effective in the presence of fear." (Frances Frei, 33:19)

• Performance and discomfort:

  “We want you to feel the heat rise. I want you to feel the sweat. The goal is to be effective in the presence of fear.” (Frances Frei, 33:19)

• On ‘Empathy Theater’:

  “She did things as empathy theater. But if she genuinely said, ‘does that make sense?’… it wouldn't have been empathy theater.” (Frances Frei, 44:14)

• On authentic contributions:

  “As we've said before on this show, all of your hopes and dreams are on the other side of discomfort.” (Ann Morris, 45:45)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Key Topic | |---------------|---------------------------------------------------| | 02:44–09:31 | Emma’s workplace confidence challenges | | 09:31–13:58 | Letting go of old stories, “guardrail to guardrail”| | 17:20–23:59 | The Trust Triangle explained & diagnosis | | 29:01–36:56 | Confidence as action; practical “discomfort” reps | | 40:47–45:52 | Debrief, advice, empathy theater, tactics recap |

Podcast’s Tone and Feel

Conversational, supportive, frank, and empowering. Anne and Frances blend their expertise with relatable humor and candor as both coaches and fellow travelers on the path to confident, authentic leadership.

Key Takeaways

• Confidence is something you earn by acting, not something you acquire by waiting.
• “Too much” feedback can lead to overcompensation—learning to calibrate, not suppress, is crucial.
• Trust (in a leadership context) is built from authenticity, logic, and empathy; most issues arise from “wobbling” on one of these pillars.
• Developing leadership voice requires ongoing experimentation, reflection, and practice with discomfort.
• Letting go—or reframing—the stories we carry (“Steve”) creates room to grow.
• Practical, even playful, strategies (improv, teaching, “stretch goals” in meetings) are powerful tools to reclaim and strengthen workplace confidence.
• Your biggest impact—and fulfillment—are on the other side of discomfort.

For Listeners

If workplace confidence is a challenge for you, this episode offers both reassurance (“you are in good company”) and evidence-based, actionable frameworks to start experimenting right away.

For feedback or to share your own workplace problem, call the Fixable hotline: 234-Fixable (234-349-2253).