Episode Overview

Podcast: Fixable (special episode from Rethinking with Adam Grant)
Episode Title: Power, Purpose, and the American Presidency with Jared Cohen
Release Date: February 17, 2025
Host: Adam Grant (Organizational Psychologist)
Guest: Jared Cohen (Historian, author of Life After Power)

This episode dives deep into how former U.S. presidents find meaning and purpose after leaving the world’s most powerful office. Cohen, drawing on his new book covering seven ex-presidents, joins Grant to explore transitions from power, the search for purpose, and surprising lessons about work, ambition, and legacy that resonate far beyond the presidency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Obsession with Presidents: Origins and Scope

• Jared Cohen’s Fascination
  • Began as a child after reading a rhyming children’s book about presidents.
  • Lifelong obsession with presidential history and artifacts, including “a vial of poison sent to Charles Guiteau in prison” and “a champagne glass from the John Adams White House.”
    • “The only thing that's consistent in my life is an unhealthy obsession with the US presidency.” (Jared Cohen, 04:25)
• Focus of the Book
  • Not about all presidents, but on seven archetypes, each representing different paths “after power.”
  • Explores what happens when presidents “descend from the stratosphere,” facing lost power, shifted identities, and newfound constraints.
    • “There’s no more dramatic retirement or firing than leaving the presidency.” (Jared Cohen, 07:10)

The Challenge of Life After Power

• Struggles and Failures
  • Most ex-presidents faced a difficult transition: broken relationships, loss of purpose, unhealthy habits, even aligning with former enemies.
  • “Very few presidents of the United States after leaving office, had a good experience in...the political afterlife.” (Jared Cohen, 07:48)
• Archetypes and Examples:
  • Thomas Jefferson: Finally able to realize his dream of founding the University of Virginia.
  • John Quincy Adams: Flounders post-presidency, only to find a new calling as an abolitionist congressman.
  • Grover Cleveland, William Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover, Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush: Each navigates a unique path—comeback, judicial leadership, humanitarian work, “never-ending presidency,” or moving on from public life.

Case Study: John Quincy Adams (11:12–17:19)

• Unexpected Comeback from Despair
  • After a failed presidency, Adams sinks into despair, quarrels with family and peers, and seems directionless.
    • “Hard to imagine a more self loathing, self pitying, miserable human being than John Quincy Adams after he's defeated.” (Jared Cohen, 12:32)
  • Returns as a congressman—considered a demotion—but gradually becomes the leading voice against slavery, inspiring future leaders like Abraham Lincoln.
  • Reveals that meaning may be discovered in lower status roles, often by accident and patience.
    • “He found a much greater calling. He stumbled into this mission that, frankly, he had never championed at any other stage in his life.” (Jared Cohen, 14:23)

Power, Purpose, and Personal Motivations (17:19–24:04)

• Does Losing Power Reveal True Character?

  • Grant posits, “Power doesn’t corrupt so much as reveal.”
    • “Once you've gained enough influence and status and authority, you feel like...you can kind of show your true colors.” (Adam Grant, 17:19)
  • Cohen notes: Most presidents, except Carter, found their passions constrained by the responsibilities of the office. Only after leaving could they reclaim their original purposes or discover new ones.
  • Rediscovery of purpose, often rooted in earlier passions.

• Triad of Motives: Achievement, Power, Affiliation

  • Some presidents were misplaced achievers forced into power-centric jobs, then recalibrated after leaving office.
    • “An achievement-motivated person...the process of having to campaign and also to govern is not about achievement, it's about power.” (Adam Grant, 21:04)

• Evolving Activity After Power

  • Many became more active in old age, trying to “make up for lost time” (e.g., Hoover, Taft).
  • “As their legs give out, as their health fails, as all their friends start dying, they actually accelerate their activities.” (Jared Cohen, 23:21)

Outlier: George W. Bush (24:04–29:00)

• Unique Trajectory and Attitude
  • Bush is an outlier: doesn’t invest much in legacy repair or public influence post-presidency, yet his popularity grows.
  • Finds meaning in painting after office—at first out of boredom, then for its learning and expressive value.
    • “He lives his life in chapters; once the political chapter was over, he just completely moved on.” (Jared Cohen, 24:45)
    • “He just has this adversarial view of spending any time investing in legacy...by basically not doing that, you know, the joke’s sort of on everybody else.” (Jared Cohen, 26:35)
    • “Do my daughters love me, does my family love me, do they want to be around me?” (Jared Cohen, 27:53)

Lessons for Leadership, Transitions, and Legacy (31:28–39:05)

• Planning for Purpose Early

  • “The investments that make for a good final chapter in life...start at the middle of life: the people you have around you, the relationships, the family, the hobbies, the intellectual interests, the ability to detach from the burdens of the past.” (Jared Cohen, 31:29)
  • Deferring meaning or closeness makes for a difficult later transition.

• Letting Go and Moving On

  • The healthiest post-power lives were lived by those who unburdened themselves from their successors’ decisions:
    • “Whether it’s your chosen successor or a successor you don’t want, you’re going to have to watch them dismantle some portion of your legacy...That limbo...is, I believe, the greatest obstacle that prevents people from making a proper transition.” (Jared Cohen, 35:37)

• Universal Applicability

  • Parallels between presidential transitions and everyday transitions in organizations or families:
    • “The interesting thing...their biggest obstacle is their own head.” (Jared Cohen, 36:55)
    • Learning to let go applies just as much to parents watching their children parent as it does to presidents watching their successors.

Personal Insights and Memorable Moments

• On Presidential Loneliness and Trust
  • “The longer you are in a role, the more isolated you become, the lonelier you become. Trust becomes very difficult. Information flow changes.” (Jared Cohen, 33:43)
• On Rushing Purpose vs. Sitting With Transition
  • “Sometimes it's a mistake to rush into finding your purpose. That actually sitting in a transition and sort of allowing your peripheral vision to kick in can prevent you from diving headfirst into something that might not end up being aligned with your values or interests.” (Adam Grant, 35:12)
• On Life Lessons from Studying Presidents
  • “What you really want towards the end of life is...something purposeful that keeps you going, something that you can keep learning and people around you who love you despite any of the things that you've achieved in your life.” (Jared Cohen, 31:29)
• On Leadership Parallels
  • “Whether they're presidents or parents or CEOs or middle managers, human beings are complicated in only a certain number of ways...the prescriptions...kind of transcend whether one is at the pinnacle of power.” (Jared Cohen, 38:01)

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “I just developed an obsession with it. One of the big interests that I had was what happens when presidents die in office and these abrupt transfers of power and how they change the course of history.” (Jared Cohen, 04:35)
• “There's not a playbook or perfect blueprint for how to do that [life after power].” (Jared Cohen, 09:28)
• “His presidency was the least eventful part of his life. It was basically an intermission between two of the greatest acts in American history.” (Jared Cohen on John Quincy Adams, 12:12)
• “He found a much greater calling. He stumbled into this mission that, frankly, he had never championed at any other stage in his life.” (Jared Cohen, 14:23)
• “Power doesn’t corrupt so much as reveal.” (Adam Grant, 17:19)
• “The power of the presidency, in a lot of respects, it actually got in the way of what they wanted to do.” (Jared Cohen, 18:03)
• “He lives his life in chapters; once the political chapter was over, he just completely moved on.” (Jared Cohen, 24:45)
• “Investments that make for a good final chapter in life...start at the middle of life.” (Jared Cohen, 31:29)
• “The greatest obstacle that prevents people from making a proper transition [after leaving power]...the biggest obstacle is their own head.” (Jared Cohen, 36:55)
• “Whether they're presidents or parents...the prescriptions for how they navigate their complicated brains and their complicated lives...transcend whether one is at the pinnacle of power.” (Jared Cohen, 38:01)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Obsession with the Presidency: 04:13–07:10
• What Happens After Power? Book Setup: 07:10–09:44
• John Quincy Adams’s Story: 11:12–17:19
• Does Power Reveal or Corrupt?: 17:19–20:30
• Motivations & Recalibrating After Power: 20:30–24:04
• The Outlier (George W. Bush’s Post-Presidency): 24:04–29:00
• Lightning Round & Practical Lessons: 30:01–32:33
• Letting Go of the Past and Successors: 35:37–37:19
• Universal Applicability, Presidents as People: 37:19–39:05

Final Takeaways

• Transitions from power—whether presidential, professional, or personal—require letting go of former identities and finding new sources of purpose.
• Success in later chapters of life depends on investments made much earlier—in relationships, hobbies, and self-knowledge.
• Letting go of attachment to legacy and successors’ actions is central to future happiness and effectiveness.
• The patterns seen among presidents mirror those in every workplace and family, making these lessons widely relevant.