Quick Fixes: How to level up, job craft, and manage colleagues you can’t stand

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fixable — "Quick Fixes: How to level up, job craft, and manage colleagues you can’t stand"

Date: February 24, 2025
Hosts: Frances Frei & Anne Morriss

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Episode Overview

In this "Quick Fixes" edition of Fixable, hosts and renowned leadership coaches Frances Frei and Anne Morriss tackle three workplace dilemma calls in one rapid-fire episode. With a focus on actionable insights, they deliver pragmatic advice on scaling a small business, redesigning your role through job crafting, and navigating the challenge of managing colleagues you may not get along with—especially when returning to a previous workplace. The tone is fast-paced, candid, and solutions-oriented, peppered with personal stories and memorable exchanges.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scaling a Small Business: Growth vs. Depth

[03:01–10:10]

Caller Dilemma:

A co-owner of Voss Fitness seeks advice on how to grow and scale—should the business expand by offering more services to existing clients or by serving more clients with current offerings? And could they be thinking too small?

Discussion Highlights:

• Growth Strategies:
  Frances frames the classic choice:

  • “Are we going to do the same thing for more people or more things for the same people?” ([03:53])
  • If operationally possible, scaling volume (more clients, same service) is easier and often more profitable.
  • If not, expand breadth—but only with services creating high value for both clients and the business, being careful not to chase revenue at the expense of profit.

• Customer Partnership & Data:
  Anne emphasizes returning "to the basics":

  • “Who are his best customers?...Why are they giving him their hard earned money over time?” ([05:16])
  • Advocates gathering day-to-day customer data (“get him out of his own head”) and deeply partnering with clients to surface valuable insights.

• Balancing Customer Focus and Profit: Frances warns, “...you’re so in touch with the customer, you forget to make profit for yourself.” ([06:11])

• Learning from Domino’s:
  Anne recalls Domino’s customer-engaged turnaround:

  • “...customers got very invested in this turnaround and they loved that they had a role, a very important role in this organization getting better.” ([06:44])
  • Takeaway: Intimately partner with clients, not just as consumers but as co-creators of improvement and new offerings.

• Unlocking Growth with Insight:
  Anne urges:

  • “Is he hungry for the insight that’s really going to unlock growth?” ([08:57])
  • Big ideas more often come from “wrestling with the basics” alongside customers and employees than from isolated brainstorming.

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2. Job Crafting: Redesigning Your Role

[11:56–15:21]

Caller Dilemma:

After six months in a job, a listener wants to propose splitting their role into two positions to focus on energizing work—and wonders when and how to approach this conversation with their manager.

Discussion Highlights:

• Making the Pitch a Win-Win:
  Frances is clear:

  • “You will have a much higher success rate if you sell a win win, which is what’s in it for your manager and what’s in it for the company.” ([12:37])
  • The proposal should go beyond personal fulfillment: explain how the split could “wildly more than 2x what we’re able to do.” ([12:37])

• Stakeholder Perspective:
  Anne:

  • “It can’t just be you...there has to be a bigger payoff to the other stakeholders here.” ([13:31])
  • Recommends openly discussing benefits to the team and organization.

• Crafting from Within:
  Anne suggests listening to their previous episode with Laurie Santos (on job design):

  • Focus on “the power you have—even without changing your duties and responsibilities,” to make your role more meaningful.

• Agency and Mindset: Frances:

  • “Laurie Santos taught us that you can inject more meaning even into the same job by cleverly changing your mental model towards it.” ([14:45])
  • If the formal split isn’t possible, change your perspective to find more meaning and energy in your current duties.

---

3. Returning to Supervise Difficult Colleagues

[15:21–20:53]

Caller Dilemma:

A seasoned professional is considering returning as director to a previous organization, where they’d have to supervise three problematic former colleagues. They ask whether to go in with a fresh mindset or heed past impressions, and whether they should even withdraw their application.

Discussion Highlights:

• Growth Opportunity:
  Frances:

  • “You saw the behavior of others without the gift of your leadership...now you’re going to get to influence their performance by your own leadership.” ([16:52])
  • The new role is a learning opportunity—to see if positive leadership can change previous patterns.

• Danger of Prejudice:
  Anne is frank:

  • “...they’ve made [the colleagues] into a two dimensional cartoon like villain in the workplace...They can’t walk into this job with this mindset.” ([17:45])

• Options for Action:

  • Option A: Embrace the chance to learn, shift mindset, and see if you can bring out the best in people.
  • Option B: Walk away—if you can't approach the role without prejudice, it's not the right fit.
    Anne: “Go forward. Find a team in an organization where a better version of you can show up.” ([18:31])
  • Option C: If inclined to withdraw, have an open, adult-to-adult conversation with leadership about your concerns before making a decision.

• Impact of Mindset on Others:
  Frances:

  • “Your mindset will influence the behavior of others in powerful ways.” ([20:17])
  • Real leadership is about creating change—both in self and team.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Frances Frei on Small Business Growth
  “You’re so in touch with the customer, you forget to make profit for yourself.” ([06:11])

• Anne Morriss on Partnering for Insight
  “Is he hungry for the insight that’s really going to unlock growth?” ([08:57])

• Frances Frei on Proposing Job Changes
  “You will have a much higher success rate if you sell a win win, which is what’s in it for your manager and what’s in it for the company.” ([12:37])

• Anne Morriss on Stakeholder Perspective
  “It can’t just be you and the prize inside can’t be that you are now happy...” ([13:31])

• Frances Frei on Mindset and Management
  “If we change our mindset, the performance of other people can change, which is just, it remains mind boggling to me.” ([16:52])

• Anne Morriss on Choosing to Return
  “Go forward. Find a team in an organization where a better version of you can show up.” ([18:31])

---

Segment Timestamps for Easy Reference

• Scaling a Small Business: [03:01–10:10]
• Job Crafting & Role Redesign: [11:56–15:21]
• Returning as Manager of Previous Peers: [15:21–20:53]

---

Summary Takeaways

• Growth comes from deeply understanding and partnering with customers, not just expanding offerings.
• Job crafting conversations succeed when they are framed as mutual wins.
• Leadership is an opportunity to rewrite old narratives—if you enter with an open, growth-minded approach.
• Your mindset about others and your own agency directly shapes outcomes—for yourself, your team, and your organization.

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Engaging, candid, and jam-packed with actionable wisdom, this episode of Fixable is a must for managers, entrepreneurs, and anyone seeking to “move fast and fix stuff” at work—without losing their sense of purpose or possibility.

Transcript

[Anne Morris]

Hello everyone. We heard you loud and clear that you wanted advice on a special topic and we have some exciting news for you. We're now planning a series on Fixable to help you with your confidence at work and we need your help to make it happen. What are your most pressing questions and problems when it comes to building and maintaining confidence in your job? Please give us a call at 234 Fixable. That's 234-349-2253 and let us know what's on your mind. We can't wait to hear from you.

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[Anne Morris]

Offers from working side by side to working together to working wonders. Accelerate your operations with it ot convergence. Transform the everyday with Siemens. Welcome back to Fixable from the TED Audio Collective. I'm your host Anne Morris.

[Frances Frey]

And I'm your co host Frances Fry.

[Anne Morris]

Frances, this is a show where we believe meaningful change happens fast and we're going to model that for everyone today by answering three caller questions as thoughtfully as we can in a single episode.

[Frances Frey]

We're doing another quick fix people. Another quick fix.

[Anne Morris]

We're going to cover a lot of ground today. As always, how to grow a new business, returning to an old workplace with a fresh mindset and how to craft your job so that you actually want to do it.

[Frances Frey]

This is my favorite type of crafting.

[Anne Morris]

Assisting from the craft fair use of the word craft which a number of Fry family members are passionate about.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah long. I come from a long line of craft fair attendees.

[Anne Morris]

So let's get into it. All right, first up, we have a voicemail from a small business owner who wants to make sure he's setting up his small business to scale. So let's listen.

[Small Business Owner Caller]

My wife started our company, Voss Fitness, nine years ago when I joined with her about six years ago. We're a concierge fitness company that provides personal training, Pilates, yoga, health and nutrition coaching, group classes, and various wellness services within residential and office buildings. All those buildings have their own fitness space, and our trainers and teams and coaches go in and work within those spaces. We also work with a number of corporations helping to deliver portions of their overall employee wellness program. So two big questions for you. Are we doing all that we can, the best way possible to drive revenue and grow the business? And are we thinking too small? Is there something that we could be doing that's bigger, that if we scaled it, we could create some explosive growth for the company? Thank you so much and take care.

[Anne Morris]

Francis. He's asking the right questions. So where does your head go on this one?

[Frances Frey]

Anytime we're trying to grow a small business, we have a classic fork in the road and that is are we going to do the same thing for more people or are we going to do more things for the same people? So do you want to grow through volume or do you want to grow through breadth in general? And then we'll get to his specific case. But in general, if there is sufficient demand operationally, you want to do the same thing for more people. It's just so much easier and so much more profitable. But if you can't do that, and it sounds like maybe he can't do that, then you want to think about what are the things that you can do that are going to create disproportionate value for your client, end for you. And the mistake that small businesses make is they go in and say, what would you like me to do? And they're guided by what would add value to the client. And then they think, well, that gave me revenue. But they take their eye off the profit. The profit rise. So he's probably going to be forced to grow in the second best way. And he has to do it in a win win way that it creates lots of value for his client. I believe he will be able to do that, but there has to be a lot of value for him as well. So it's not just revenue, it's profit.

[Anne Morris]

I find myself also craving for this caller to go back to the basics because he's asking the right questions. But these are really big Questions that he's not going to be able to work out at the top of the mountain. And so I want to make sure he's gathering the data to inform these questions at every step of the way. So who are his best customers? Right. Why are they giving him their hard earned money over time? And then the second thought I have, for instance, inspired by work that you have done for decades, is what are smart ways that he could partner with his customers to get this insight faster? I want to get him out of his own head and into the mindset and behaviors of gathering data to inform his choices all day, every day.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. What I love about this is you're gonna make sure you're adding value. We don't have to guess to your point. When we're small and he's on site, my goodness. You can learn about your customers in ways that big companies just dream of being able to learn about their customers because you are there with them on site. So there's two parts of this. One is we're not in touch enough with the customer. That's what you're bringing up. The second one, which I was bringing up, is you're so in touch with the customer, you forget to make profit for yourself. So I think we want to make sure that you do both of those things.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. So for instance, I'm thinking of friends at Domino's, and I think we've shared this story on the show before, but when they were in the middle of wrestling with some of these questions, you know, much bigger scale, but it's the same question, how are we going to grow? One of the things that they discovered is that the taste of the pizza was in the way. So they were delivering on the brand promise of getting your pizza in 30 minutes or less. But as one reporter pointed out at the time, you then had to eat it. Right. So they went through this glorious pivot of getting better at this core capability of making great pizza. Along the way, the CEO took out a billboard in the biggest town square they could find, which was Times Square, like literally Times Square in the meter of New York City, and scrolled customer comments across the billboard in real time. And the comments were about the taste of the pizza. And this whole exercise created the outcome the CEO was looking for was that the company really got focused on solving this problem. Now, a beautiful byproduct that they weren't expecting was that customers got very invested in this turnaround and they loved that they had a role, a very important role in this organization getting better. Now, if we Go back to our friend who's growing his small business. I think one of the things we see over and over again is that companies of all size miss the opportunity to partner deeply with their customers to solve problems. And the beautiful thing about this business is he is literally walking into his customers offices on a very regular basis and there's already this intimacy there. And so that's where I want to push him to go for answers is to really partner deeply with his customers about what they value when they give him their money. What are they excited to get in return when they give their money to his competitors? Why is that? I almost want a mindset shift where he's obviously hungry to grow the business, but is he hungry for the insight that's really going to unlock growth?

[Frances Frey]

What I love about what you're saying is that you can go to like deeply meet the customer's needs and growth is a manifestation of that, or you can try to grow and maybe meeting the customer's needs is a manifestation of it. And what you're arguing for is go and like center on the customer's needs and then growth will follow. That resonates so much to me.

[Anne Morris]

What I'm also pushing on is where do great ideas come from? Right. And we sometimes get seduced into thinking like, oh, I'm going to go to the mountaintop and think deeply about innovation and the big idea is going to come to me. And in practice, usually how it happens is when you are really wrestling with the base, particularly at this stage with the basics of the business of how do I create value? To your point, how do I then capture it? Right? What do people want? What's exciting to people? What can I uniquely do that other people can't do? I want to push him to do that in partnership with his customers, in partnership with his employees, in partnership with his spouse. And I want him to reach out to the people that have deep insight into the problems he's solving.

[Frances Frey]

I love it.

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[Anne Morris]

All right, Francis, Our next question is about how to have a conversation about job design with your manager. This fixer has been at their job for six months, he writes. There are parts of every job that stuck, but I'm far enough along in my career to know what kinds of tasks are energizing and which ones make me want to find a different role. I'm at this point in my current role. It's a good company and the team has been in growth mode. I want to suggest to my manager that they divide my role into two positions. How do you suggest bringing up this kind of job crafting conversation? And do you recommend I wait since I'm so new, or address it early since I feel like it may make me want to stay longer?

[Frances Frey]

Well, I get what's in it for our caller. I get that the caller is very focused on what would make them happier and they would like to do half of their job. And I bet there are a lot of people who would like to do half of their job. So the question is, how do you sell that to someone else? And in general, you will have a much higher success rate if you sell a win win, which is what's in it for your manager and what's in it for the company. So yeah, at the very least, I would imagine the sales pitch to be something like if you let me focus on this half and we have someone else focus on that half, we will wildly more than 2x what we're able to do. Right? Because that would just be getting us back to even.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, that's exactly where I was going with this. Who else wins in this deal?

[Frances Frey]

Right?

[Anne Morris]

It can't just be you and the prize inside can't be that you will are now happy or you're now they get to keep you right. There has to be a bigger payoff to the other stakeholders here. And I get it. Particularly when we're frustrated. It can be very self distracting posture. But now you got to make the case to other people in the system who have decision rights around how you spend your time. You know, I have an idea for how we might get there faster, better, more efficiently and that has to be the orientation that they come into this conversation with. The other homework I'll offer this caller is to go listen to our episode with Laurie Santos where we talk about job design and job crafting and using the power you have even without changing your duties and responsibilities. How do you make your job more energizing and craft it in a way where your superpowers are showing up to do this job in a more reliable way. And I found that conversation really inspiring because it was also inviting you to acknowledge the agency you have, the power you have to make your own job more meaningful and fulfilling.

[Frances Frey]

What I love about that is that Laurie Santos taught us that you can inject more meaning even into the same job by cleverly changing your mental model towards it. And so if I guess if the if our fixer is not successful, he can inject more meaning. And if our fixer is successful, it will be on the other side of a dramatic win win through thinking about what's in it for the manager and what's in it for the company and I guess what's in it for the other person who he has now decided their fate.

[Anne Morris]

That's another stakeholder in this story. He can decide. I'm optimistic. I suspect there's a payoff here and a win win that didn't show up in his letter and he's got to make that quite discuss final question, Francis. This fixer is contemplating going back to an old workplace, possibly in a more senior role. There are a couple plot points here. Let me read his note to us. I am 25 years into my career and have just applied to be the director of an organization where I have worked on and off in a variety of capacities over the years. In my last position there, which I left about eight years ago, I was part of the administrative team. What I observed at that time were two people on the team who consistently did the least amount of work possible. A third member of the team was one of the reasons I left. I found her to be extremely difficult to work with and she made some ethically questionable decisions and regularly overstepped her role. She is valued by the organization and the director at that time told me I was overreacting to her behaviors. If I were to be offered the director position, I. I would be returning to supervise these three people along with two other newer hires who make up the small team. How can I approach this opportunity without the preconceived notions and feelings I have about the three employees clouding my vision? Or should I take what I know about them into the role of director? Not sure how to handle it? Or if I should remove my application from the pool? Wondering if a return is a step backwards?

[Frances Frey]

Well, I'm thrilled about this. So many levels. First of all, there is, please go forward, don't go backwards, go forward, do it because you have so much to learn and this is going to be a great opportunity. Here's like the primary thing you're going to learn. You saw the behavior of others without the gift of your leadership and you are going to have a marvelous before and after of how they behave in the presence of your skilled leadership. And so I want you to to get in touch with how you can bring out the best in other people. And one of the things we know is that if we change our mindset, the performance of other people can change, which is just, it remains mind boggling to me. We have some ideas for how you can change your mindset and then I want you to marvel at how the performance of these other folks improves.

[Anne Morris]

I have to say I was shocked about where this story ended, which is that he is contemplating supervising these other humans whom they've made into a two dimensional cartoon like villain in the workplace. And they're considering a job where they're responsible for their success and well being in the workplace. So I think there's two options. Either they go on this beautiful journey that you just articulated to change their mindset around management and leadership, or the answer's no. They can't walk into this job with this mindset.

[Frances Frey]

No, no, no. 100% agree.

[Anne Morris]

You know, manage this team. So if they're at the point where.

[Frances Frey]

They have three bad apples and two.

[Anne Morris]

Potentially good apples, but the chance that those apples are going to be good with this mindset are low. So we can round it off to a really bad bullshit five terrible direct reports. Are you going to take a job with 5, 5 terrible direct reports that you've decided to have no potential? The answer is no. But if you are at the point where this is how you're feeling about this job and it is deal breaker. This is the good news. You've got nothing to lose. And so I think there's a lot of room and potentially a lot of learning by somehow making this discussable. So option A, do a whole bunch of work on mindset and see this as the learning opportunity that it really could be. To your point, option B, walk away. Do not look back. Go forward. Find a team in an organization where a better version of you can show up. I do think there's an option on the table because he's got nothing to lose because he's willing to walk away where he somehow finds a way to make this discussable with his new employer. He's going to walk in in a senior role. And so can they have an adult to adult role dialogue with their senior colleagues about these resources before they say yes to the job? I'm not willing to rule that out.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, I would prefer he have an adult to adult conversation about himself, not about them.

[Anne Morris]

Of course. Of course. That's option A. I'm just saying there's. I think there's a third option. How do we set everyone up for success here, including me? If I come into this role and I'm coming into this role with reservations about some of my colleagues, I think it's probably not the right gig. I want you to know why I'm walking away. I think there's a way to have that conversation responsibly.

[Frances Frey]

So my things are before you decide to walk away. But if you decide to walk away, then yeah, you have nothing to lose. Go ahead and talk to them about it. I hope that they take this for the beautiful learning opportunity that it is, which is your mindset will influence the behavior of others in powerful ways. And so you got to see their performance under someone else's leadership. And now you're going to get to influence their performance by your own leadership.

[Anne Morris]

I'm also voting for option A.

[Frances Frey]

You're a very pragmatic woman, though. You've got the. You got the plan B, I got plan B.

[Anne Morris]

And C. Yeah. I think there are other options on the list, but my strong vote is option A. Use this as a learning opportunity to go get better yourself and to make other people better.

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[Anne Morris]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Your participation helps us make great shows like this one. No question is too big or too small. Please keep reaching out to us directly. If you want to figure out a workplace problem together, send us a message, email, call text [e-mail] or 234 FIXABLE. That's 2343492253 FIXABLE is brought to you by the TED Audio Collective and Pushkin Industries. It's hosted by me Anne Morris and me Frances Frey. This episode was produced by Rahima Nassa from Pushkin Industries. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Balaurasso and Roxanne Hilash and our.

[Frances Frey]

Show was mixed by Louis at Storyyard.

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[Frances Frey]

Code on the go.