Fixable Podcast Summary

Episode: Quick Fixes on Confidence: How to feel less awkward at the office, stay strong during a job search, and build up your team
Hosts: Anne Morriss & Frances Frei
Guest: Morra Aarons-Mele (Author of The Anxious Achiever, Host of The Anxious Achiever Podcast)
Date: September 29, 2025

Episode Overview

In this dynamic, listener-driven episode, Anne Morriss and Frances Frei tackle real-world questions about workplace confidence, with special guest Morra Aarons-Mele. The trio offers practical advice and thoughtful coaching on:

• Returning to the office confidently after remote work
• Helping team members build confidence, especially in preparation for a leader’s exit
• Staying resilient during the job search, withstanding rejection, and fighting perfectionism

Their warm, witty, and empirical approach seamlessly blends personal stories, research-backed insights, and humor. Notable for its actionable advice and inclusive, non-judgmental tone, this episode is a must-listen for anyone who has struggled with confidence at work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Anxiety and Its Relationship to Confidence

Timestamp: 04:14 – 06:56

• Morra Aarons-Mele:

  • Anxiety isn’t a defect—it’s universal and not something to “cure.” Attempting to banish anxiety completely is unrealistic and unhelpful; instead, we should approach it lightly and, when possible, use it as just another signal or even a kind of wisdom.
  • “We feel anxious about feeling anxious… stressed about being stressed. Can we treat it more lightly and bring it into our lives as even a source of wisdom?” (04:50)
  • Anxiety and confidence are closely linked. Anxiety often shows up when we’re pushing our growth edge: “You can’t have confidence without anxiety. You can’t be great at anything without anxiety.” (05:31)
  • It’s important to distinguish between normal, manageable anxiety and conditions that are debilitating (e.g., chronic anxiety, depression, or avoidance) that merit professional help.

• Anne & Frances:

  • Recognizing when anxiety passes from normal to detrimental helps reduce stigma and encourages people to seek support when needed.
  • The critique of pathologizing is fair, but support is vital when anxiety is truly interfering with life.

2. Returning to the Office & Managing Awkwardness

Listener Question: How to build in-person confidence after remote work
Timestamp: 09:39 – 19:02

• Caller: Early-career professional feeling awkward in-person after years of remote work.

• Morra’s Advice:

  • Grant yourself grace: Socializing at work is a learned skill, and the pandemic interrupted this learning for many.
    • “Learning how to show up at work is a skill and you didn’t get the chance to learn that skill… it’s a muscle you haven’t exercised yet. So give yourself some grace.” (10:36)
  • Reality-check your self-perception: Is your awkwardness really as visible as you think? Most people are too distracted by their own insecurities to notice yours.
    • “Our outside doesn’t match our inside… before you feel worse, establish if it’s really true.” (11:38)
  • Practice consciously: Try Toastmasters, record yourself, join in social challenges (“lunch week,” “meeting week,” “snack week”), and treat each challenge as a playful experiment.
  • Connect by curiosity: When unsure what to say, ask others about themselves—“our favorite topic.”
    • “If you feel like you’re struggling to make conversation… ask them about themselves. You’re engaging them, and talking about themselves, which let’s face it, is all of our favorite topic.” (16:37)

• Frances’ “Chunking” Advice:

  • Break “work” into its component activities: meetings, lunch, snack room, hallway, etc. Focus on one area each week (“lunchtime week, snack week”), experimenting and sharing learnings with friends. Make it fun and a communal project.
    • “Work is not a monolithic thing… I would identify the six to ten things. Lunch week, snack week, meeting week…” (14:31)
  • Most people are too self-absorbed to notice your “awkwardness.”

• Generational Stereotypes Discussion:

  • Younger people are better at naming feelings, but may need support navigating in-person interactions.
  • Mutual teach-in: “They can teach us how to be less awkward on Slack; we teach them how to be braver IRL.” (18:55)
  • “Anxiety never killed anyone. Normal anxiety never killed anyone. You can do it.” (18:46)

3. Building Confidence in Your Team

Listener Question: How can a manager prepare their team to be confident and independent before he exits?
Timestamp: 19:08 – 26:38

• Caller: Manager of a small team sends weekend affirmation texts and wants to know how else to boost confidence.

• Morra’s Feedback:

  • Tough love: Weekend texts may backfire! Messages from a boss “out of hours” can spark anxiety, given the brain’s threat response.
    • “When you hear from your boss out of hours, it can create a threat response… that’s not what you want.” (20:51)
  • Check behaviors against intentions: Positive intentions do not always translate into positive impact. Evaluate whether you’re unintentionally fostering dependence/micromanagement.
  • Let go—truly!
    • Ask yourself, “Am I doing things that cause them to defer to me?” Actively step back and allow team members to try, fail, and learn.
    • “If you want them to spread their wings, let them spread their wings. They’re adults.” (23:25)
  • Celebrate publicly: Recognize successes in front of others, not just with private affirmations.

• Frances’ Additions:

  • Feedback in public, not just private.
    • “Positive reinforcement in general should be given in public. So why reserve it for private?” (25:32)
  • Celebrate failure AND success: How you react when someone “comes down to earth” after spreading their wings is just as essential as when they soar.
  • Leaders should prepare teams for their eventual absence “from the get-go,” not just at the end.
  • Preserve weekends for rest; don’t interrupt employees' recovery time with work messages.

• On authenticity and frequency of praise:

  • “People know when they deserve praise… If it’s happening every Saturday, yeah, that’s a little…” (26:14)

4. Staying Confident During a Job Search

Listener Question: How to maintain confidence after repeated rejections in a job hunt?
Timestamp: 28:56 – 40:42

• Caller: “All this rejection is getting to me, especially because I really can do [the jobs]. How can I remain confident?”

• Morra’s Advice:

  • Give yourself grace: Job searching is incredibly tough, and today’s climate is particularly harsh.
    • “This sucks. It is the worst. And my LinkedIn feed every day is full of really qualified people who are just not getting hired.” (30:10)
  • Validate the emotional toll: The anxiety isn’t just about the job—it’s existential, linked to self-worth, security, and providing for family.
  • Get curious and seek feedback: Reach out to interviewers for feedback, even if it’s via a quick voice note. Play detective for any patterns you can control/address.
  • “Acting out of character”: Invoke the most confident version of yourself (Brian Little’s “acting out of character”).
    • “Is there a confident, amazing version of you that you can put on just for that interview?” (33:51)

• Frances’ Story & Mindset Shift:

  • Treat rejection as “not now,” not “never”: Her repeated Harvard rejections (high school, grad school, faculty, tenure) taught her to see “no” as temporary, leading to eventual acceptance and success.
    • “When somebody says no to me, I simply hear, not now.” (36:44)
  • Use rejection as a superpower: Repeated failure inoculates you against brittleness and perfectionism, fueling growth. “For me, my hearing not now has absolutely fueled almost every great thing.” (36:44)
  • Perfectionism is brittle; resilience is flexible: Don’t equate rejection with unworthiness or finality; greatness necessitates risk and experimentation.

• Anne’s Take:

  • Sometimes, “they don’t have all the information.” Keep giving the world more evidence of what you offer.
    • “You knew you were the right fit. You kept going back and giving them more information until it made sense.” (37:50)

• Morra:

  • Write Frances' advice on a sticky note: Keep reminders like “I got this” visible, especially for tough Zoom calls.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Morra Aarons-Mele:

  • “Can we treat [anxiety] more lightly and bring it into our lives as even a source of wisdom?” (04:50)
  • “You can’t have confidence without anxiety… Because anxiety happens when we’re pushing our growth edge.” (05:31)
  • “Give yourself some grace. Learning how to show up at work is a skill and you didn’t get the chance to learn that skill.” (10:36)

• Frances Frei:

  • “Work is not a monolithic thing. I would first identify the six to ten things… lunchtime week, snack week, meeting week…” (14:31)
  • “When somebody says no to me, I simply hear, not now. I would also take all of this experience you have and start using it to form your future superpower.” (36:44)
  • “Flawless or failure is such a limiting way to go through the world, and it’s likely to lead to mediocrity. Great irony.” (39:52)

• Anne Morriss:

  • “The probability that anyone else is even noticing any of the behaviors she’s fixating on… is quite low.” (12:49)
  • “You kept going back and giving them more information until it made sense to everyone that you should be there.” (37:50)

• On Generational Differences:

  • “I want to get to a world where you can be in your feelings and do your job because you can understand how to manage your feelings.” (17:46)
  • “Maybe they can teach us how to be less awkward on Slack; like this can be a generational teach-in going both ways.” (18:55)

Timestamps of Major Segments

• 04:14 Anxiety myths & reframing
• 05:31 Anxiety as a growth signal, managing illness vs. ordinary challenge
• 09:39 Handling workplace awkwardness after remote work
• 14:31 Chunking the workday, playful experimentation
• 17:46 Generational differences & emotional fluency
• 19:08 Building team confidence for manager’s departure
• 23:25 Truly letting go & letting employees learn
• 25:32 The power of public feedback
• 28:56 Confidence through job search rejection
• 36:44 Frances’ “not now” mindset
• 39:52 Perfectionism vs. resilience

Closing Tips & Actionable Strategies

• Give yourself grace: Navigating change is hard. Be kind to yourself.
• Reality-check your self-perception: Most people are too focused on themselves to notice your “awkwardness.”
• Break challenges into chunks: Choose one social/professional context to focus on at a time.
• Practice openly, share learnings: Make team-building and personal growth a communal project.
• Celebrate in public, not just private: Affirmations have more power when done openly.
• Seek feedback, control what you can: Ask for feedback in the job search and tweak what’s within your reach.
• Reframe rejection: “No” means “not now.”
• Summon the best version of yourself: Find cues or rituals (“lipstick on,” a favorite outfit, even a post-it) that help you “act out of character” for challenging moments.
• Combat perfectionism with experimentation: Greatness demands risk and accepting temporary setbacks.

Where to Find Morra Aarons-Mele

• Book: The Anxious Achiever
• Podcast: The Anxious Achiever
• LinkedIn: Open to direct messages and always responds! (41:52)

Final Word:
Write Frances’ advice (“No means not now”) on your monitor. Make confidence a collective, learned process—embrace both awkwardness and failure on the road to success.