Unsolicited Advice: Why Jeff Bezos should sell the Washington Post

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Fixable – "Unsolicited Advice: Why Jeff Bezos should sell the Washington Post"

Episode Date: March 2, 2026
Hosts: Frances Frei & Anne Morriss
Duration (main content): 00:50–33:34

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Overview

In a sharp, lively, and deeply opinionated conversation, leadership coaches Frances Frei and Anne Morriss take on Jeff Bezos’ ownership of the Washington Post, responding to the recent massive layoffs and the declining state of the paper under his stewardship. Framed as unsolicited advice, this special episode delivers incisive analysis of where the Post stands, why Bezos is failing its mission, and how a dramatic ownership and operational shift—anchored by a bold new team—could revitalize one of America's most essential journalistic institutions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of the Washington Post Under Bezos (00:50–03:36)

• Layoffs and Turmoil: Over a third of staff cut, targeting desks like sports, books, local, and international news—raising concerns about the Post’s broad relevance and editorial depth.
• Bezos’ Absenteeism: Bezos's rare public response post-layoff came days late and framed the cuts as "following the data."
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 01:15):
    “He was essentially MIA the day of. It felt disingenuous... His use of the pronouns ‘we’ and ‘our’ and ‘us’ just didn't ring true.”
• Contrast With Amazon Leadership: Bezos’s hands-on, high-standard approach at Amazon versus his apparent absence and low engagement with the Post.
  • Quote (Frances Frei, 05:22):
    “At Amazon, we want our employees to act like owners. Well, I would like not this owner.”

2. The Core Advice: “Sell the Damn Thing” (03:36–08:44)

• Bezos Not an Effective Steward: Low devotion, low standards—time to pass the baton.
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 03:37):
    “He is no longer an effective owner of the business or steward of the mission… I'm getting a lot of low devotion, low standards signaling."
• The Stakes Are High: The Post is a national treasure, still salvageable, but another wave of neglect could be fatal.
  • Quote (Frances Frei, 06:04):
    “But it doesn't have too many more waves of neglect in it until it may as well be a startup; in which case, wow, did you needlessly destroy a lot of value?”

3. Who Should (and Shouldn’t) Own the Post Next (08:44–12:56)

• No More Billionaire Patrons: The savior model is flawed—over-reliance on individuals leaves the institution vulnerable to their whims.
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 09:36):
    “I feel like this is an industry that gets seduced by the idea that a billionaire patron is going to come in and save it from itself. … But then this guy got scared, presumably, and he got distracted and he started having the best sex of his life. And, like, they're unreliable, the people.”
  • Quote (Frances Frei, 10:44):
    “The whimsical distraction of a billionaire leader is really problematic.”
• The Case for a Capable, Entrepreneurial Team: Move from individual savior to team stewardship—particularly advocating for figures with operational chops in media.

4. Memorable Model: “Bring in the Can-Do Lesbian” (12:08–15:23)

• Peggy Noonan’s Call for Optimism: Industry needs can-do energy and a future-focused approach.
• Kara Swisher as a Model Leader: Outspoken, experienced, and public about her willingness to take this on. Not just one person, but a team builder.
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 12:45):
    “I think this is exactly the type of direction that this paper needs to go. Like, it's the right model, and I think you have the right can-do lesbian for the job.”
  • Quote (Frances Frei, 12:56):
    “Totally understands the industry, is really interested in commercial success… is interested in really good quality, as you said, but really cares about keeping score on the economic side as well.”

5. The “Stop Feeling Sorry for Yourself” Challenge (13:24–15:23)

• Bridesmaids Analogy & Meltdown:

  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 14:12):
    “This is an industry that needs to stop feeling sorry for itself and, and start fighting for its shitty little, like, chance to have an extraordinary impact on the world. … But the impact in this moment in American and world history is immeasurable.”

• Optimism is Nonoptional: Refusing nostalgia and pessimism—it's time for a team of "happy warriors."

6. Viable Business Paths: NYT, WSJ, and Seeking Essentiality (21:08–27:42)

• Two Models for Reinvention

  • Wall Street Journal Path (21:08–22:11):
    • Insulate from market swings by being “essential” to a specific, high-value audience (e.g., business community, institutions).
    • Reliance on institutional (B2B) subscribers for recurring revenue.
      • Quote (Frances Frei, 22:16):
        “Every company… subscribes. … But they have institutions that buy so that you don't have to worry if Aunt Mary is going to subscribe or not.”
  • New York Times Path (24:35–26:57):
    • Relentless, documented innovation: cooking, games, Wirecutter, Wordle, The Athletic. Cross-selling to expand daily touchpoints.
    • Acquiring, not just inventing, new features.
      • Quote (Frances Frei, 26:33):
        “They didn't create Wordle from scratch. They didn't create Wirecutter from scratch. … They look into the market and say, 'Oh, thank you, dear Wordle. You just innovated in a way that will be useful to us, and we buy you.’”

• The Post’s Missed Opportunities:

  • Innovation stalled after 2017; rising irrelevance despite a growing political discourse.
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 23:17):
    “Politics has never been more relevant to our daily experience… To have a brand like this… there's such beautiful alignment between what people want to talk about and what this institution… has done well for generations.”

7. Execution: Culture and Optimism Required (27:42–32:31)

• Execution, Not Invention: Success requires rigorous, optimistic reinvention and a shift from the pessimism that pervades journalism.

  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 29:19):
    “You have to be able to find another frequency there… rigorous, optimistic relationships with possibility.”

• Public Co-Creation, Drawing Inspiration from Domino’s Turnaround: Engaging “the crowd” in the comeback, leveraging public investment in the journalistic mission.

  • Quote (Frances Frei, 31:20):
    “I'd start picking up the equivalent of the newspapers on the corner and delivering them on my street. Honestly, I'm invested in the Washington Post.”
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 31:31):
    “The story of Katherine Graham… I do think that there is this really interesting co-creation potential where readers really get involved in the next chapter.”

• A Patriotic Call:

  • Quote (Frances Frei, 32:18):
    “We have a patriotic call to Jeff Bezos. Please sell the company.”

8. Specific Call to Action (32:25–33:16)

• Sell the Post to Kara Swisher (and Team):
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 32:25):
    “Sell the company to Kara Swisher. And then, Kara, get the rest of us involved here.”
  • Quote (Frances Frei, 32:31):
    “And we will do anything you need to bring back this national treasure.”
• Don’t Waste the Crisis:
  • Quote (Anne Morriss, 32:48):
    “Don't waste the crisis here. This is an incredible mission. The brand is extraordinary. The business model is terrible. This is a very fixable problem. And let's give up sentimentality about the how and bring passion and commitment and rigor and optimism and excellence to the why. And like, assemble a team of happy warriors to pull this off.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is an industry that needs to stop feeling sorry for itself and start fighting for its shitty little, like, chance to have an extraordinary impact on the world.” — Anne Morriss (00:50, 14:12)
• “He is no longer an effective owner of the business or steward of the mission… I'm getting a lot of low devotion, low standards signaling from Bezos.” — Anne Morriss (03:37)
• “But it doesn’t have too many more waves of neglect in it until it may as well be a startup, in which case, wow, did you needlessly destroy a lot of value?” — Frances Frei (06:04)
• “If you don't like what Barry's doing, then do it better. And here's an incredible brand and business to do it with.” — Anne Morriss (17:44)
• “There are two ways to profit: revenue and cost. If costs get out of alignment, get them back in alignment. But cutting costs is not the way to profitability.” — Frances Frei (17:44)
• “We have a patriotic call to Jeff Bezos. Please sell the company… and get the rest of us involved here.” — Frances Frei and Anne Morriss (32:18–32:28)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:50 – Anne Morriss’ impassioned “stop feeling sorry for itself” opening about journalism
• 01:37 – Introduction of topic: Jeff Bezos, Washington Post layoffs, and mission drift
• 03:36 – Core advice: Bezos should sell
• 09:36 – Critique of billionaire savior model; industry fragility
• 12:08 – Advocating for “can-do lesbian” leadership model and team building, with Kara Swisher as a public candidate
• 14:12 – Bridesmaids analogy: time for journalism to fight for its “shitty little life”
• 21:08 – Strategic options: Wall Street Journal vs. New York Times paths
• 26:33 – Innovation through acquisition: “thank you, dear Wordle”
• 29:19 – Culture of pessimism in journalism needs to shift for transformation
• 31:31 – Historical inspiration: Katherine Graham and co-creating with readers
• 32:18–32:28 – Patriotic call to Bezos; plea to sell to Kara Swisher and community

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Summary Table

| Segment | Main Topics/Quotes | Start Time | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | The Problem | Layoffs, Bezos’s absenteeism, mission drift | 00:50 | | Sell Advice | “He needs to sell this thing.” | 03:36 | | Ownership Fix | No more billionaire saviors; team approach | 08:44 | | Fresh Models | “Can-do lesbian” (Kara Swisher) and entrepreneurial team | 12:08 | | Fighting Back | “Stop feeling sorry for itself”/industry vitality | 14:12 | | Playbook | NYT and WSJ models; essentiality; innovation via acquisition | 21:08 | | Culture | Optimism, execution, public co-creation | 27:42 | | Call to Action| Patriotic appeal: “Sell to Kara Swisher, get us all involved” | 32:18 |

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Final Takeaway

Frances and Anne urge Jeff Bezos to recognize he is no longer the leader the Washington Post needs, and to sell the institution—preferably to a capable, entrepreneurial team led by someone like Kara Swisher. The opportunity—if seized with the right blend of mission, team culture, and innovation—can transform the Post from a case study in neglect to a new model for vibrant, essential journalism. “Don’t waste the crisis,” they advise. The Post can—and must—rise again, but only if those at the top have the devotion, energy, and optimism to make it happen.

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Transcript

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[Anne Morris]

This is an industry that needs to stop feeling sorry for itself and start fighting for its shitty little like chance to have an extraordinary impact on the world. And I only mean shitty little in the sense that yes, the economics aren't super exciting and that problem is not going to be solved in the next 18 months, but the impact in this moment in American and world history is immeasurable. This is fixable A Podcast from TED I'm Anne Morris.

[Frances Frey]

I'm Frances Frey.

[Anne Morris]

This week we are bringing you a special installment of Unsolicited Advice where we give advice to people who didn't ask

[Frances Frey]

for it, which is my favorite pastime. One finally have permission to do it.

[Anne Morris]

One of so many, Frances the lucky recipient of our council today is Jeff Bezos in his capacity as owner of the Washington Post. As most of our listeners I'm sure know, the Post underwent a massive layoff earlier this month, reducing more than a third of its staff over 300 jobs. The newsroom was essentially gutted, and the desks most affected by the cuts were sports, books and local and international news.

[Frances Frey]

I'm really looking forward to this episode because he bought it way back in 2013, so whatever problem he was fixing is the thing he broke.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, yeah, and it was a pretty good run until relatively recently. The company framed the move as a necessary restructuring to sharpen its focus, focus on things like national politics, health and technology, and to be directionally more responsive to shifting audience habits in an increasingly crowded and fractured media landscape. You're already revealing your skepticism. In his first public statement since the layoffs, Bezos wrote, each and every day our readers give us a roadmap to success. The data tells us what is valuable and where to focus. So he's essentially suggesting that these cuts and changes align with readers interests and appetites.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, because no One's interested in sports these days. So go, Jeff. I'm sure you're following the data.

[Anne Morris]

I also had a reaction to this announcement, which came days after the layoffs were made. He was essentially MIA the day of it felt disingenuous on a couple of levels, including his use of the pronouns we and r and us. So today we want to give him our best advice. How does that sound?

[Frances Frey]

I am so ready.

[Anne Morris]

All right, let's do it. I want to divide this up in a couple of parts. And the first part, I want to offer very specific advice to Jeff Bezos himself. And I'll give you the headline on where I am on this, which is that he needs to sell this thing. He is no longer an effective owner of the business or steward of the mission. And I will offer him as a way to think about you and I. I feel like where. Based on the public data that we. We have no inside information here, based on the public data we have in terms of his relationship with this entity, I'm getting a lot of low devotion, low standards signaling from Bezos. And we can kind of talk about the data. But this is a paper that's been now in crisis for years. He's largely been absent except for these isolated decisions that benefit the rest of his portfolio. Executive turnover, publisher controversy, morale in the toilet, high profile departures from talented people. And he's been MIA as a public leader in these moments. And you contrast that with his hands on reputation in building Amazon, where he was known for this, like, incredible operational intensity. Even as he handed the business over to other talented leaders, he remained an active, strategically involved owner and chair of this business. And I feel like we're getting none of that from him right now.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, you know, a lot of people, I bet even Jeff has said this. At Amazon, we want our employees to act like owners. That's like the highest praise.

[Anne Morris]

Well, I would like not this owner.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, I would. I was going to say I'd like this owner to act like an owner.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Frances Frey]

And to your point, listen, he's got a lot going on, so. Okay, if this isn't what you want to do, and honestly, I wouldn't care.

[Anne Morris]

Right.

[Frances Frey]

This was a national treasure and an, you know, a public necessity. So neglect here, I think is important to all of us.

[Anne Morris]

And I'm going to use the present tense, I think it is a national treasure that can, that can still realize its full potential here.

[Frances Frey]

Yes, and I believe that as well. But it doesn't have too many more waves of neglect in it until it may as well be a startup, in which case, wow, did you needlessly destroy a lot of value?

[Anne Morris]

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[Frances Frey]

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[Anne Morris]

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[Frances Frey]

That is such a great question. And I want to bring a lot of optimism to that question because he's feeling defeated and then pretending he's going to follow the data. I'd love for him to start following the data. In fact, I would have appreciated him following the data for a while now. But we need someone who's not so burdened.

[Anne Morris]

Well, let me start with who I think he should not sell it to. Great which is not another billionaire patron who's doing this as part of a legacy play, reputational play.

[Frances Frey]

No. If you happen to be a billionaire, this was your dream and you are ready to shepherd it like an owner. Jeff Bezos is an owner of Amazon. He knows what it means to be like an owner. We need someone to act like an owner whether they're a billionaire or not.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. And I want to push on this because I feel like this is an industry that gets seduced by the idea that a billionaire patron is going to come in and save it from itself and protect it from the vagaries of capitalism and that that's where the ideal solution lies. I happen to think it's the opposite. But I will also offer that Bezos is a cautionary tale because when we put all our chips on these humans who are by definition, you know, human and flawed, the plan worked when times were good, but then this guy got scared, presumably, and he got distracted and he started having the best sex of his life. And like, they're unreliable, the people. Right. So let's not build a system that is so fragile that this can happen. And I think this is a. A paper and a business and an industry that needs to figure out a model that doesn't depend on this kind of salvation.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. I think the whimsical distraction of a billionaire leader is really problematic. You know, we've seen foundations do much better because you don't have to worry about what happened to the what side of the bed the person woke up on because it's got that kind of buffered structure to it. Let's please not get the next person who is doing it for the next whatever reason because it's too costly to the institution when they, to your point, inevitably lose focus.

[Anne Morris]

Yes. So who instead. And I will.

[Frances Frey]

I'm super curious who you're going to put instead. I only had my list of nots. I don't have a list of do's.

[Anne Morris]

So I'm going to describe the ideal team here because I think we have to move from this model of individual savior to team. And I think it's a team of serious can do operators and entrepreneurs. And I think they need to bring some serious experience in building media businesses. Speaking of the art of opinion, I'm going to come out as a big Peggy Noonan fan, which may surprise people who's a beautiful writer, has anchored the opinion section morally, emotionally. She wrote a great piece on how everyone wants to talk about how this industry is doomed, but no one has any energy to Talk about the way forward.

[Frances Frey]

So good.

[Anne Morris]

So I'm going to translate Peggy Noonan for us and for our audience. I think she is asking for a can do lesbian to come in here and really build a team that can execute. And one of our, like, greatest compliments, we believe everyone has an inner can do lesbian. There happens to be a can do lesbian who is interested in this gig, which is Kara Swisher, who's been very public about being ready to have a serious conversation about putting a team together to rebuild this paper. And I think that is.

[Frances Frey]

I just got chills when you said that.

[Anne Morris]

I think this is exactly the type of direction that this paper needs to go. Like, it's the right model and I think you have the right can do lesbian for the job.

[Frances Frey]

And it, you know, I'm just, I'm going through my head, like, totally understands the industry work that the company work that its competitors is still writ large in the industry and has found ways for. I mean, it's really interested in commercial success, is interested in really good quality, as you said, but really cares about keeping score on the economic side as well. That is a wonderful idea.

[Anne Morris]

I was just stuck on a plane and decided to watch Bridesmaids again, which is, as you know, one of my favorite movies. And I made the guy next to me very uncomfortable, which is this. You know, it was intimate, small. These planes get smaller and smaller. He kept looking over the scene. One of my favorite scenes is the scene when it's got to be Melissa McCarthy. Yes, it's the Melissa McCarthy character doing an intervention on Kristen Wiig's character. And she starts pushing her around. And it's this very funny physical comedy moment between these two women. And she starts yelling at her, like, stop feeling sorry for yourself and start fighting for your shitty little life. You know, And I, I think this is an industry. I, I love this industry. Right?

[Frances Frey]

You love this industry.

[Anne Morris]

I mean, this is an industry that needs to stop feeling sorry for itself and, and start fighting for its shitty little, like, chance to have an extraordinary impact on the world. And I only mean shitty little in the sense that, yes, the economics aren't super exciting and that problem is not going to be solved in the next 18 months. But the impact in this moment in American and world history is immeasurable. And we need someone with the fucking cojones. And I know the woman who's got them. And it's not like. And again, let's move away from the savior model. It's not. Not Cara, it's Kara and the team she would put together.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, and she would put together.

[Anne Morris]

Who really knows how to do this.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. You know, I don't think we have, I don't think it has to be a bad business. It's not going to have like tech level returns where you, you don't understand how all the zeros keep getting add to, added to market cap. But there is no reason that this company can't have in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in annual profit. So it's, it's and we not an eye watering return, but it's a real business opportunity that they have.

[Anne Morris]

And we know that those numbers are real because we have an example in the New York Times that has been able to build that business where, where free cash flows are in the hundreds of millions of dollars and they're running really awesome experiment. Like I don't, I barely cook. But when I do, it's where I start right in the recipes. I play all their stuff games. I, you know, I go there to get informed. That's the kind of energy and vitality we're talking about.

[Frances Frey]

And there isn't a single decision that the New York Times made that was not within the grasp of the Washington Post. Now I'm not saying they had to go the cooking and games way. I think we have other parallels. The Wall Street Journal. Yeah. They have become essential to a segment of customers. Well, you know what, The Washington Post had a group of customers that only wants them to be more essential. I would argue that their target market has only grown in the period where they have had the steepest decline. Which means it's Jeff's fault. Which means it's okay. But please, for the rest of us, please sell it to someone who give the baton to someone else and let this beautiful institution be saved.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. Amen. And we're gonna move on to whatever the team looks like, what they should do next. I do feel like we need to acknowledge one more can do lesbian in this industry.

[Frances Frey]

Oh boy.

[Anne Morris]

Which is. I think I know who you're gonna acknowledge, which is Barry Wyatt.

[Frances Frey]

You and I might differ on this one, Barry.

[Anne Morris]

Whatever you think of her politics and I think we are on the other side of, of many of her positions. I think she is an interesting model here and whatever you think of how she got here, I think we can all agree that she is bringing real energy to the challenge of reinventing network news and we're casual observers, but that there are a lot of other people stepping up to that challenge. And I think there's an opportunity here for the Post to be an answer in some ways an answer to CBS News from the center left in terms of being vibrant, alive, running smart experiments, trying new things. If you don't like what Barry's doing, then do it better. And here's an incredible brand and business to do it with.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah, I mean, I will say I'm not a fan of many of the things that I ascribe to her intentions for what she's doing, but she isn't coming in with the same depressed feeling of oh, we better cut costs. There are two ways to profit, revenue and cost. If costs get out of align alignment, get them back in alignment. But cutting costs is not the way to profitability. Right. Sizing costs and driving revenue. And to your point, Barry is swinging whether she's going to swing. And we need someone who's going to get up there and swing at pitches. What's the famous in you miss 100% of the balls you don't swing at? Well, the Washington Post hasn't swung at a ball since 2020 as far as I can tell. And that's exactly the period where these other organizations in the same industry so we get to control for the industry. Oh, the industry is bad. Sorry. Same dynamics, same time zone. And this is the period of the greatest growth. Why? Because they swung the bat at some pitches and Barry is including the Free Press.

[Anne Morris]

If you look at subscriber growth, she's swinging.

[Frances Frey]

There's no question she's swinging. I'm glad that though that she's not your recommendation. I'm glad that we could catch up. No, no, no.

[Anne Morris]

That's not the candy lesbian we're picking for the job.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah,

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[Anne Morris]

What should this new team do? So let's say we work out the kinks of ownership. We build a can do team that's ready to swing. What should they do tactically here?

[Frances Frey]

Yeah. So I think they have two different paths in front of them that are not that risky in that a player in their industry has made them work. So there is the New York Times path and there is the Wall Street Journal path. And I think they're different. And I'm not saying you can't be a hybrid of the two, but this I like to learn at extremes and I would really consider the extremes of these. So I'll do the Wall Street Journal first. The Wall street it's not like it's good in high markets and it's bad in low markets. Insulated itself from market conditions because it is essential to people in the market regardless of how the externality turbulence goes. And if there's high turbulence, people read. If there's low turbulence people read. If the markets go up, if the markets go down. So they have figured out how to do it and they built their subscriber base not at the whims of individual subscribers, but they have institutional subscribers. They're a little bit like Bloomberg in that way.

[Anne Morris]

So I would say just for our listeners, what do you mean by institutional subscribers?

[Frances Frey]

So every company in the world subscribes at the Harvard Business School every single day. There are a lot of subscriptions to the Wall Street Journal.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Frances Frey]

All over the place. But they have institutions that buy so that you don't have to worry if Aunt Mary. Yeah. Is going to subscribe or not. They're a B2B. They're also B2C. But they insulate themselves with the B2B part and they are essential to them. And that permits them to like steadily grow and to persevere so that's one become essential to your market. Now theirs is the business community, and Washington Post is people that care about politics. In my world, people talk about politics more today than they ever have in my lifetime. So it does seem to me that the market of being informed on that conversation matters. And by the way, I am surrounded by all kinds of different opinions, and what they all want to do is be more informed. There is a market there, and it seems to me a very growing market. And nobody has.

[Anne Morris]

I mean, for better and worse, you know, politics has never been more relevant to our lives. In our lives. It has never been more relevant to our daily experience as Americans. And to have a brand like this and a mission like this and like, there's such beautiful alignment between, like, what people are thinking about and want to talk about and engage with and what this institution that is the Washington Post has done well for generations.

[Frances Frey]

They are the institution to do this. They should reclaim their op ed page from whatever whimsical, silly idea Jeff had and bring it back to the center.

[Anne Morris]

They should. Markets and personal liberties.

[Frances Frey]

You know what they should do? They should follow the data.

[Anne Morris]

They should follow.

[Frances Frey]

When Jeff gets emotional and doesn't follow the data, but still says he's following the data, he thinks that we're gonna believe him. We don't. We just think, you're distracted, dude. You're distracted anyway, so that's option A. And I actually think there is such a clear option there, but it's not the only path. Or they can take inspiration from what the New York Times did, which, again, when Jeff bought it, they were very similar. But Jeff wasn't distracted in the beginning. So for like four years, he really.

[Anne Morris]

That was a good run.

[Frances Frey]

It was a really good run. But when that trip wasn't enough, becoming digital, putting in the infrastructure, his numbers tail off. And the New York Times numbers just go up and up. So I.

[Anne Morris]

In terms of subscriber growth.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, in terms of subscriber growth. Thank you. So I just went through and looked up what are all the innovations year by year from 2013 till now, and I created a table for myself. What are all the innovations that the New York Times had year by year? And what are all the innovations that the Washington Post had? The Washington Post's innovations stop at 2017. They aren't even swinging at pitches.

[Anne Morris]

Give us an example.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, they're so.

[Anne Morris]

In a year that the Post made no visible investment that registered in whatever research process you did.

[Frances Frey]

Wordle.

[Anne Morris]

Life changing.

[Frances Frey]

Life changing. They had already done the New York Times cooking earlier. And so they were building on it. Wire cutter. Mm.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah. I mean, rely on Wirecutter all the time.

[Frances Frey]

Oh, my gosh. They have figured out how to be essential. And so what I would call this is there's the news. And yeah, the Wall Street Journal is essential for the bullseye of the business community. And it's really the being informed. And the New York Times. Yes. Amazing journalism. And you know why they get to pay for the amazing journalism? Because it's the news and other things. The same target market. They didn't start going after a different target market, but they found ways to cross sell into our lives. Cooking, games, Wirecutter. When was the last time you saw me buy something without first going and checking on Wirecutter? And you know what they do? They're a little bit like Microsoft in this way.

[Anne Morris]

I'm now listening to the Wirecutter podcast. After watching your consumer behavior, do you

[Frances Frey]

know what they do? They didn't create wordle from scratch. They didn't create Wirecutter from scratch. They didn't create the athletic from scratch. They look into the market and say, oh, thank you, dear wordle. You just innovated in a way that will be useful to us and we buy you. Oh, my gosh. Do you know what Amazon used to do? Oh, thank you, Zappos. Thank you, Diapers.com. thank you, thank you, thank you. Right.

[Anne Morris]

This is not to its owner. This is not a new strategy.

[Commercial Announcer]

No.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, yeah, no. Beautiful. So what are you suggesting? They can pick one or the other, but they don't have to reinvent the wheel here.

[Frances Frey]

I think you could be successful in either one. You're probably gonna make a different set of decisions if you go after the essential to the bullseye or if you go after the news and insulate it. And what's nice about a case discussion is reasonable people can disagree, pick one and go for it. And then this is how I would figure out who I was gonna sell to. Like, let's say Jeff cared that it succeeded after he hands off the baton, listen to the pitches of the people that wanna buy it and see which one they want.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah, I love it. And then here, let me offer a couple more thoughts on the how, please, because I think you've just articulated the what. And the beautiful thing is you don't have to invent everything. And there are strategies you can pull off the shelf here. And then the challenge is, you know, rigorous execution. In some ways here they have to find the frequency of reinvention in the culture of this place.

[Frances Frey]

Yeah.

[Anne Morris]

I think optimism is not easy for this sector. And I think part of it is that in some ways in journalism you have to be in the business of pessimism.

[Frances Frey]

That's interesting.

[Anne Morris]

And we see this in different industries too. But it's almost impossible to prevent the culture of a product from seeping out into the rest of the business even as we attempt some church and state kind of walled off structures in some of these media businesses. And that I want my journalism to be deeply skeptical. I want you to be paranoid on my behalf as an American citizen. But that is not the energy that's gonna allow you to transform and reinvent the business. That's nice. And I think you need real, like rigorous, optimistic relationships with possibility right now in order to pull this off. I think this team needs to come in with real, follow me, bullhorn energy right now if they're going to pull it off. And this is not something that is easy for this industry because it's in

[Frances Frey]

the business of skepticism.

[Anne Morris]

It's, I mean, pick a headline. I mean, we're all going to die. We're all going to die. And here's another reason why we're all going to. And I want you to be chasing that down right in the product. But when you get to the organizational and business side of co creating the future with this talented team you're going to bring together, you have to be able to find another frequency there. So I think this is really important and you know, you can call it a couple of different things, but whoever comes in, I think needs to be deeply intentional, which is why I think some of these media startups which are really interesting out there, I think Puck is one of them. I think they've been deeply intentional about finding that frequency even as they do rigorous journalism. This is a beloved brand and a beloved institution. I think there's a possibility to bring readers and consumers and the public along in this turnaround.

[Frances Frey]

I love it.

[Anne Morris]

I'm thinking about Domino's, which is a story that we. The Domino's turnaround, which is a story we've written about. Patrick Doyle came in, discovered that the pizza did not taste very good. This is one of the reasons that people weren't buying it. And so, you know, he called it pizza turnaround. He did all of these interesting things to try to get the internal organization's attention, including taking out a live billboard in Times Square where he just scrolled customer comments unedited, unedited, because he had done all the things that a CE turnaround CEO does you know, so many memos, so many PowerPoint slides, so many meetings. And he couldn't really like the pulse of the corporate animal wasn't really ticking upward. And so, you know, he described it as a burn the boats moment where he get. He gets everyone's attention. You know, the customer comments start changing. One of the interesting things he didn't expect to happen that happened was customers then got involved. Like it was this very public turnaround.

[Frances Frey]

Invested.

[Anne Morris]

After he made this choice, I mean, there's, there's.

[Frances Frey]

I'd start picking up the equivalent of the newspapers on the corner and delivering them on my street. Honestly, I'm invested in the Washington Post.

[Anne Morris]

The story of Katherine Graham, this woman who tentatively took the helm and crushed it. You know how many women of a certain age read that book, right? And said, well, maybe I can do this thing. I look around, there's only men, but maybe I can do it because this vulnerable story of this woman taking the helm. So I do think that there is this really interesting co creation potential where readers really get involved in the next chapter.

[Frances Frey]

And I'm going to, I'm going to take it. That idea, which I hadn't thought of, I'm going to take it a step further. I actually think that they can rely on the patriotism that we all have an inner can do lesbian. I believe it in my heart. We all have an inner patriot. And I think right now it's not so hidden.

[Anne Morris]

Yeah.

[Frances Frey]

So we have a patriotic call to Jeff Bezos. Please sell the company.

[Anne Morris]

Sell the company to Kara Swisher.

[Frances Frey]

Sell the company to Kara Swisher.

[Anne Morris]

And then, Kara, get the rest of us involved here.

[Frances Frey]

And we will do anything you need to bring back this national treasure. I mean, it will crush where it has been in the past and it can go to even greater. There's never been a more important moment for this institution. And Jeff, go enjoy your life and

[Anne Morris]

don't waste the crisis here. Like, this is an incredible mission. The brand is extraordinary. The business model is terrible. This is a very fixable problem. And let's give up sentimentality about the how and bring passion and commitment and rigor and optimism and excellence to the why. And like, assemble a team of happy warriors to pull this off.

[Frances Frey]

You're here.

[Anne Morris]

And if all else fails, Frances, we'll just rename it the Bad Bunny Express. Because if we look at the data, that's what the people want. Let's follow the data. All right, that's our show.

[Frances Frey]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Your participation helped us make great episodes like this one, so please keep reaching out directly. If you want to figure out any questions about your workplace problem together, send us a mess email call textableed.com 234fixable that's 234-349-2253 we look forward to hearing from you. And me.

[Anne Morris]

Frances Frey this episode was produced by Rahima Nassa from Pushkin Industries. Our team includes Constanza Gallardo, Banban Chang, Daniela Baloraiso and Roxanne Hylash and our

[Frances Frey]

show was mixed by Louis at Storyyard.

[Anne Morris]

This episode is brought to you by

[Frances Frey]

Capital One Capital One's tech team isn't

[Anne Morris]

just talking about multi agentic AI.

[Frances Frey]

They already deployed one.

[Anne Morris]

It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping using self reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks. It doesn't just help buyers find a car they love, it helps schedule a test drive, get pre approved for financing and estimate trade in value. Advanced, intuitive and deployed. That's how they stack.

[Frances Frey]

That's technology at Capital One.

[Anne Morris]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Anne Morris]

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