Australia: Shark Attacks

Summary

Flightless Bird Podcast – "Australia: Shark Attacks"

Host: David Farrier
Cohost: Rob
Guests: Brett Canallen, Dave Pearson
Date: January 14, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, David Farrier temporarily leaves his American sojourn to bring listeners a distinctly Australian story: the real, raw, improbable, and, ultimately, surprisingly uplifting experiences of shark attack survivors. Joined as always by cohost Rob, Farrier heads to Australia to unravel why the nation lives with one of nature’s most thrilling threats just off its shores. Farrier interviews survivors, explores Australia–New Zealand cultural quirks, and dives into how rare yet life-changing these encounters are, all in his trademark dry, curious, and relatable style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Australia–New Zealand Rivalry & Cultural Banter

• Farrier and Rob open with lighthearted banter about how New Zealanders are often mistaken for Australians, and discuss the sense of rivalry similar to Canada vs. America.
  • Farrier: “Australians are like a bit louder and a bit more… intense than New Zealanders. New Zealanders are a bit more low key almost in the way I think Canadians are a bit more like low key. Americans like, very, like brash and loud.” (19:08)
  • The rivalry, typically good-natured, is “evenly matched” and often revolves around who claims icons like Russell Crowe, pavlova, and the flat white. (19:59)
  • Memorable moment where Farrier sardonically describes being called Australian:
    • Farrier: “I tense up. I’d rather someone call me, like, British… but Australian, whoa.” (20:28)

2. Shark Attacks: The Australian Context

• Farrier notes Australia’s statistically high incidence of shark attacks:
  • “Of 69 unprovoked bites around the world in 2023, 22% happened in Australia.” (22:00)
  • Yet, shark attacks remain exceedingly rare: “You’re thousands of times more likely to be hit by a car… before you’re even close to being bitten by a shark. It’s a rare event.” (22:45)
• The societal mythos around sharks is contrasted with data and firsthand accounts, aiming to move beyond fearmongering.

3. Interview: Brett Canallen’s Shark Attack Survival

• Background:
  • Brett, from the seaside town of Kiama ("voted Australia’s best tourist town"), grew up loving the ocean and surfing—a rite of passage for many Australians.
• The Day of the Attack:
  • After a rough start to his day (surf shop break-in), Brett heads surfing with a mate to decompress.
• The Attack (31:15–39:30):
  • “I get struck from my right side with so much force… It felt like I was back on the footy field and just got hit so hard and got thrown off my board.” (29:32)
  • Sensory details: “The feel of the shark’s skin—really rough… The complete absence of sound… and the shark’s eye—just black.” (31:15)
  • Brett instinctively pulls away (not advised): “When you pull away, it… shreds everything.” (35:51)
  • His friend Joel heroically paddles toward him, and with the aid of two nurses, Brett is stabilized.
  • The shark missed his femoral artery by 2mm; had surgery involving a muscle graft from his back.
• Memorable Quote:
  • “I lost three quarters of my left quad… [the surgeons] were talking about amputation at the start...” (40:21)
  • On the randomness of fate: “You can feel very alone in what you’re going through because of that. And it’s just about creating a little bit of community and the knowledge that you’re not the only person who’s gone through it.” (42:12, on the Bite Club)
  • Reflecting on trauma: “There’s something strange about feeling that… the why me?” (52:32)

4. Resilience & Recovery

• Brett is introduced to Bite Club, a support group for shark attack survivors, founded in Australia and now worldwide.

  • The group visits new survivors and pairs them up with others.
  • “The first rule about Bite Club is you talk about your attack… every time you talk about it, you let a little bit of some of that trauma dissipate…” — Dave Pearson (49:52)

• Brett’s physical and emotional journey:

  • Overcomes medical predictions to surf again, five months after the attack.
  • Guidance from his physio: “People fail not from aiming too high and missing, but from aiming too low and hitting.”

5. Interview: Dave Pearson and the Bite Club

• Dave Pearson, Bite Club founder, recounts surviving his own bull shark attack and fighting through infection/injury, plus the shared trauma and healing in talking with another survivor (47:01–47:42).
• He notes the importance of survivor-to-survivor connections—not just therapy:
  • “A cancer survivor knows how to talk to another cancer survivor… for us it’s sharks. We’re no more important than any other trauma survivor. It’s just that’s our uniqueness...” (49:05)
• Dave underscores the empathy that grows from traumatic experience:
  • “The number one [thing learned] is everybody’s struggling with something. And I always say that you never know what the person beside you is going through.” (54:32)

6. Processing, Laughter, and Returning to the Water

• Both Brett and Dave return to surfing; notably, Brett downplays the nature of the shark to authorities to avoid it being hunted:

  • “He lied about what type of shark it was so they would not be able to go out and kill it. They both do not resent sharks at all.” (58:16)

• Many survivors, despite trauma, return to the ocean.

• Reflection on randomness and resilience in facing the deeply unfair but statistically rare event.

7. The Aftermath: Telling the Story, Finding Meaning

• Shark attack survivors learn to modulate how they tell their story to different audiences: friends, families, bar acquaintances, other survivors (50:32–51:32).
• Emotional healing necessitates not only physical, but existential adaptation—making peace with randomness (“why me?”), and, for many, growing deep empathy for others with hidden struggles.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Brett Canallen, on the surreal moment of attack:
  • “There was this certain feeling of enormity… everything else in the world doesn’t matter… it’s just you and what is happening in front of you… a moment where time really slows down almost to the point of stopping.” (30:58)
• Dave Pearson, on perspective shift:
  • “I went, wow, fancy dying, surfing. It was just like time slowed down so much. And I went, well, I’ve had… a pretty good life.” (45:01)
  • On empathy: “You never know what the person beside you is going through. So don’t discount how people feel. Always try and show a bit of empathy.” (54:32)
• Rob & David, about risk:
  • “So if you get bitten by a shark, you going back in the water after?” — Rob
    • “Never.” — David (58:48)
• On Bite Club:
  • “The first rule about Bite Club is you talk about your attack…” – Dave Pearson (49:52)
• Brett, on survivor’s perspective:
  • “…the struggles that we go through is almost universal as humans… Not everyone’s going to be attacked by a shark, but everyone will feel the same things that I’ve felt in going through that struggle.” (54:14)

Lighthearted Moments

• Extended banter about New Zealand’s “Morinsville mega cow” (01:02)
• Farrier “tense[ing] up” at being mistaken for Australian—and his “patronizing” tone (20:14)
• Farrier and Rob’s delight and giggling about “the joy of a blowhole” (56:08)
• Kid cameo: Kelvin’s shark facts, survival plan, and Jaws plot summary (76:49–77:48)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|---------------------------------------------------| | 19:08–21:28 | Aus–NZ rivalry; accent, identity banter | | 22:00–22:45 | Shark attack stats and risk in Australia | | 23:20–28:55 | Brett Canallen’s childhood, surfing life, context | | 29:32–39:30 | Brett’s attack: moment-by-moment narration | | 42:06–42:16 | Introduction to Bite Club | | 43:22–46:40 | Dave Pearson’s shark attack story | | 49:52 | “First rule about Bite Club is…” | | 54:32 | Dave on empathy and lessons learned | | 56:08 | Blowhole banter | | 58:16 | Survivors’ relationship with sharks | | 76:49–77:55 | Kelvin’s facts and Jaws summary |

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Additional Resources (as mentioned in the show)

• Show Notes: Links to mutual aid and GoFundMe for fire victims, Bite Club Facebook and Dave Pearson’s contact (for shark attack survivors), motivational speaking page for Brett.
• Next Week's Episode: Seeking California wildfire stories—listeners encouraged to send experiences.

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Episode Tone & Final Takeaways

• Tone: Dry, gently sardonic, sometimes irreverent, always curious and humane.
• Takeaways: Shark attacks are rare but searing; their survivors often emerge with humor, wisdom, and increased compassion for others facing hardship. The ocean is a place of high risk and high reward; Australians live with it with practical reverence, not fear. Support groups like Bite Club show the human need for connection through even the rarest of experiences.

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For Listeners

• If you’ve faced wildfire or shark attack experiences, contact: [e-mail]
• Support and more info: Show notes on the podcast feed with links to aid, support groups, and survivor stories.

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Closing Quote

“It’s just ours is just sharks. We’re no more important than any other trauma survivor. It’s just that’s our uniqueness, is that there’s not a lot of us.” — Dave Pearson (49:05)

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Transcript

[Brett Canallen]

Hello.

[David Farrier]

Hi, Hayden. How are you?

[Hayden]

It's good.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

I'm good.

[David Farrier]

How's New Zealand doing?

[Hayden]

I don't know if you know this, this, but when you say, hi, Hayden, how are you? You sound kind of sarcastic or like you're being a bit patronizing.

[David Farrier]

No, I think that is just the way it comes out. I'm, I'm being genuine. I, I, I find this sometimes.

[Rob]

Right?

[Hayden]

Yes. Am I not the only person that's told you that?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

No.

[David Farrier]

I've been accused of being sarcastic when I'm not being right.

[Hayden]

So you're genuinely interested in that? It does seem like you're having a little go sometimes when you're hi. And that's maybe why I react so badly.

[David Farrier]

I think that's maybe an issue that you have.

[Hayden]

You know, there's probably blame on both sides, like, in everything.

[David Farrier]

How, how, how is your day going? I understand you and the family are out on sort of a New Zealand summer road trip. Yes. What's been the highlight of the trip so far?

[Hayden]

Oh, seeing the Morinsville mega cow. It's a huge cow in Morinville. And to me, it's, it's real. It's a model cow. Not, not just one, it's not a real cow, but it's our national mega cow. And if I feel like if you could distill New Zealand's just pure ID into one object, it has to be the Morinsville mega cow. It's like the soul of the nation. And it was kind of amazing to actually visit and get to gaze upon it and you can pull its udders.

[David Farrier]

Today's episode of Flightless Bird is an episode that actually takes place in Australia.

[Hayden]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And it's about sharks because there are a lot of sharks in Australia. I know. The same as in New Zealand. Do you have any thoughts on sharks?

[Hayden]

Like, people are always like, they're misunderstood. They're so nice.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

No.

[Hayden]

They will bite you in half. They are apex predators of the ocean. There's no such sort of similar PR campaign going on for lions. You know, don't go near them. It's not, they're going to kill you. They're killers. They're going to kill. The big cats are big, sharp fish teeth. Steven Spielberg did nothing wrong.

[David Farrier]

I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, of course, that was a tagline for the show, and it was true when I got stuck in America after New Zealand closed its borders to keep Covid out. But the borders have, of course, been open for ages and I can travel. And recently I went to Australia, where I recorded some episodes of Flightless Bird. Don't freak out at the format shift. Change is good, change is healthy. And this flightless bird is happy to be on the ground in any country, discovering its weird and wonderful ways. Australia is New Zealand's neighbour, a three hour flight away. But as far as land mass goes, New Zealand is much, much tinier. 3.5% the size of Australia. New Zealand has 5 million people. Australia has 26 million. And while New Zealand's main flightless bird, the kiwi, is pathetic and largely defenceless, Australia's flightless bird, the cassow, can kill a person by kicking them to death. This is the main difference that amazes me always, that while New Zealand doesn't really have any creatures that can kill you, Australia has loads of them. And today we turn to one of those creatures, a creature we're all probably scared of, thanks to Steven Spielberg, because how could I be in Australia and not look at one of Australia's main things getting attacked by a shark? So wax up that surfboard and get ready to paddle really, really fast, because this is the Shark Attacks episode. Flightless.

[Brett Canallen]

Flightless.

[Rob]

Flightless bird. Touchdown in America.

[David Farrier]

I'm a flightless bird. Touchdown in America. Rob, how are you?

[Rob]

Oh, loaded. Question.

[David Farrier]

We're recording this on Friday afternoon. There's been some fires and for me it's been incredibly disorientating and weird.

[Rob]

Yeah, you just got back two nights ago.

[David Farrier]

I. When the fire hit Runyon Canyon, which felt a bit too close for comfort for me, I drove an hour south with some friends to a hotel in Huntington Beach. We all went in on a room and that seemed like. Because it seemed like we were getting boxed in by fires.

[Rob]

So you boxed yourselves into a hotel room. How many were you in one room?

[David Farrier]

Yeah, there are a few of us in there.

[Rob]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

There are a few. There are a lot of bodies. But it's basically. It felt good to get away from that and it's just been like the scale of it. I still can't quite wrap my head around you're being here like in California longer than me, in America longer than me. This is horrific.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[David Farrier]

We're back in central Los Angeles now.

[Rob]

Yep.

[David Farrier]

Air quality, shitty. A lot of you have had friends that have lost homes. I have friends of friends that have lost homes. There's big fires raging west and east. The one near us is. Has gone. But it feels like we're all kind of in, like you said it before, it feels like the beginning of COVID where everything feels, like, deeply unknown and strange.

[Rob]

Yeah. And, like, half the city is evacuated.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

We got really lucky being in the part of the city where we are, because. Yeah. We've got fires on each side of us and.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Yeah. I mean, waking up on, I think, what was Wednesday morning, you could see the fires behind the skyline and did.

[David Farrier]

You wake up with, like, a splitting headache that morning?

[Rob]

Yeah. I mean, the air quality has been terrible. We've.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rob]

You're back masking again.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, again. Another Covid thing. Yeah. Masks are back on again. Didn't think that was going to happen for a while.

[Rob]

And staying indoors, a lot of stuff's closed right now because people have left.

[David Farrier]

I find it hard to know, like, what next week will be like. It's like, I feel like we. Over the weekend, we kind of see whether things settle and things get more under control. Are you on that watch duty app?

[Dave Pearson]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Yeah. I think everyone in Los Angeles over the last three days have. Has downloaded. Watched it.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I saw that. It's top of the app store. Yeah.

[Rob]

Just obsessively watching, like, because the crazy thing is because of the winds, the fires just will jump and end up in a totally different area out of nowhere. Like, a couple nights ago, the Hollywood Hills were on fire, too, which is getting closer to us.

[David Farrier]

This. The other element that you mentioned before we started rolling is that there's now this element of the being arsonists out. Taking advantage of this time as well.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Right.

[David Farrier]

There was a guy, like, a citizen's arrest. He was out with a blowtorch lighting Christmas trees on fire in Silver Lake.

[Rob]

A bunch of people saw him and apprehended him at some point.

[David Farrier]

What's your anxiety level like? You always seem pretty calm to me. Like, you didn't evacuate. You stayed. I left. What's your. Like, how do you feel? Because you've got, like, a family as well, you know?

[Rob]

Yeah. I kind of bounce back and forth between, like, total panic, but then also, like, want to be there when shit goes down. I feel like I can click into it when stuff is happening.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Is there that element of wanting to be with your home so that you can monitor and, like, you can get a hose out if you need to? Or does that, like, sort of factor in.

[Rob]

No, that's less of a factor. But there is also, like, I wanted to drive up to Griffith on one of those mornings at the observatory and just see, like, what's going on and observe.

[David Farrier]

I went up that morning I walked up.

[Rob]

You walked up? All the roads were closed.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So I walked up and pretty much I was up there for five minutes before it was me and there was another guy and a dog.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

That was it.

[David Farrier]

Breathing wasn't the easiest. Like you could feel. Like I felt out of breath halfway. Usually I don't feel out of breath because I do it all the time. We've been out there for about five minutes and rangers came up and said, you know, park has just closed, leave now. And they said it like very firmly. Yeah, but it was like apocalyptic. The sky was just bright orange.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Smoke over. You could see both fires out to the left, another out to the right. And that was. It was. It felt like the end of the. Not to be dramatic. Like it felt like what the apocalypse. You imagine it to be like from every film you've seen.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah. I mean I just wanted to get there to see like proximity wise. Like what, what? Because there's only so much looking at an app. Once I started watching the app, it started to feel like it was closing in a lot. Just looking on online and like the information that is out there. Like I felt okay at first being in Los Feliz and then once I just saw the way the winds were blowing and how it's like directly at us from where the Eaton fire was.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Well, you watch Judy, you literally see where you are. You're a blue dot. You see like growing flames here, growing flames there. And then you turn the wind on and you're like, oh, the wind is blowing this way.

[Rob]

Well, I feel like watch duty did ease it a little bit. I was just looking at the other interactive maps on the Internet and all of those looked insane with like the Newsweek one. Like the whole city was just like purple.

[David Farrier]

So I had a very surreal experience. So I left this morning from Huntington Beach. It was about an hour 15 minute drive back. I stopped at a Walmart there because I don't have an air purifier. And I'm like, they won't be in our, like in the city. People have bought them. So let's try this. So I go in, I go to the air purifier section. All gone. It's just a whole wall of them gone. So I'm like, I might as well like get something like. So I got some bottled water because it's like water is going to be not as great as it normally is.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Not that it's normally great. Anyway, got some waters and as I was checking out, the cashier was like, so many people are buying waters today. Like, what's going on? And I thought she was joking, and so I sort of laughed. And then she just kept looking at me and I'm, oh, no, the fires. I'm from. I'm from Angeles. I'm traveling back. She just kept looking at me blankly, and I'm like, you know about the fires. No idea.

[Rob]

What?

[David Farrier]

No clue. And neither did the cashier next to them, so I thought they were taking the piss. So I told these two people, there's, like, really big fires, like the biggest in California's history. People have died, people lost their homes. They had no idea. I know Huntington beach is like a different territory. Like, that's where I went for election night.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And saying that, like, I had a great. Like, everyone there was lovely. Everyone I met was lovely, but they were obviously just. All I can think is they are just not watching the news. They're not online. And they just didn't. They just had no idea. And the other interesting thing was they said all morning people have been getting water. At no point had they decided to, like, investigate.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Anyway, that just kind of blew my mind.

[Rob]

We lost power for, like, 24 hours.

[David Farrier]

Yep. Same.

[Rob]

Natalie was like, well, we should go get those, like, power charger banks for the phones. And I was, there's no way.

[David Farrier]

We're not going out.

[Rob]

Well, I was just like, I don't think Best Buy is going to have any. Like, they're going to all be gone.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

So I, like, popped open instacart to try, and it was just all gone before driving over there and.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like I'm still in that phase of, like, not knowing exactly, like, how worried I should be and, like, how prepped. It's like, are we going to need to evacuate again? Anyway, I. I thought next week this may happen or may not happen, but I'd like to do an episode that kind of looks at all of this, because the idea of wildfires to me is certainly very Californian and very American. Like New Zealand. We don't really have to deal. Australia does. But New Zealand doesn't deal with this stuff.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

So just a thought.

[David Farrier]

If any listeners have had a direct, I guess, interface with the fire, if you've lost a home, if you're a first responder, if you have an experience with that, I'd love you to do what we did on election night. Just record a voice memo about your experience. Just say who you are, where you are in California, how you came into contact with the fire. How you're feeling. You don't need to make it too long. It doesn't need to be a big essay. But just do that voice note and email it to flightlessbirdchatmail.com and yeah, I'd like to get some of those together, assuming they get sent in and kind of look next week a little bit at what is going on. Because I still feel like I'm figuring it out myself, you know.

[Rob]

Yeah, I will say it has been. Nice is the right word. It has been comforting the way the kind of community around the country absolutely kind of showed support, not necessarily from a political level. I think we.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Oh, no, no.

[Rob]

It's local weirdness.

[David Farrier]

It's neighbors.

[Rob]

Neighbors and even just people reaching out.

[David Farrier]

Well, what I'm going to do in the show notes for this episode, there's two Google Docs sheets. One of them is basically a list of people that have GoFundMe set up who have lost homes. There's another Google sheet which is basically places you can get help by area in LA if you need food, if you need water, if you need shelter. And so I'll put those in the show notes for this episode. And they're constantly being updated with different mutual aid groups that are looking at the latest helpful things. And that's the thing. It's like I feel like I have very little trust in politicians here, but it feels like human to human, like neighbor to neighbor. Like, when I was in Huntington beach, my elderly landlord, I wanted to check on him, so my neighbor went into my building, knocked on his door, helped. I was in touch with other people. Everyone was like, checking on each other. And that felt really, really good.

[Rob]

Yeah, I mean, everyone I know back home, like from all across the country, like, are checking in and.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Making sure that we're okay.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. And so in the middle of this horror show, that feels incredibly good. But, yeah, if you're listening, obviously, stay safe and vigilant and watch the apps and just keep, check, check on people that live alone and perhaps aren't as in the loop, aren't online as we all are, because they're the ones you want to keep an eye out for because this stuff happens so quickly. One final thing. I just noticed the city of Pasadena sent a Instagram post out, stop using leaf blowers. It sounds like a joke, but legitimately, the use of leaf blowers contributes in the spreading of toxic ash and other chemicals from burned structures and debris from the Eaton fire. So I'm always laughing about leaf blowers, but genuinely don't use them right now.

[Rob]

I saw that too.

[David Farrier]

Couldn't help but know that.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

[David Farrier]

Support for Flightless Bird comes from Rocket Money now. Rob, if you're anything like me, you sign up for something and you immediately forget about it after the trial period ends and then you're charged. Does this sound familiar?

[Rob]

Yeah, I mean, I've signed up for things with different email addresses and seen that I'm being charged twice.

[David Farrier]

Oh yeah, since Everything now is a service, it is so easy to forget to cancel, even if you've marked it in a calendar and you're not using them at all. In fact, I learned that 85% of people have at least one paid sub going unused every month. And thanks to Rocket Money, you can now see all your subscriptions in the one place and you can cancel the ones you're not using anymore, which ends up saving you a lot of money.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

A really cool thing as well is that it even tries to negotiate lower bills for you, which I find amazing. They automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save and then you can ask them to negotiate it for you. As a New Zealander, I hate any kind of money negotiations, so I am all for this.

[Rob]

Yeah, it's like having an assistant call and try to barter for you.

[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

That's RocketMoney.com bird RocketMoney.com bird this show is sponsored by Better Help now. What do you want your 2025 story to be? Because every January brings you 365 blank pages waiting to be filled. I'm actually reminded of my friend who journals every morning and I think she is literally going to fill up 365 blank pages. But think of therapy as your editorial partner when you are doing that journaling, helping you to write new chapters and create the meaningful story you deserve to live. I have found therapy very helpful at various times because you are talking to someone that can help you navigate the story that is your life. They are an external force that can come in and offer advice.

[Rob]

They can just give you objective opinions on what you're dealing with. And sometimes just talking things out is really, really helpful to get through what you're dealing with.

[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

That's BetterHelp. H E L P.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Australia.

[David Farrier]

I was in Australia for about two and a half weeks. I recorded three episodes and so we're going to do episode of one of those today. It's about sharks.

[Rob]

Can we recap kind of the Australian New Zealand relationship?

[David Farrier]

Yeah, we can. Yeah. What questions do you have about the two countries?

[Rob]

It's kind of a rivalry, Right.

[David Farrier]

I liken it to Canada and America.

[Rob]

Okay. So New Zealand's like the little brother.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. So we're right down the bottom. We're tiny Australia above hulking, huge, massive land. I would say. I mean, look, I love Australians. Not going to knock Australians.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

In general, I'd say, like, Australians are like a bit louder and a bit more. A bit more intense than New Zealanders. New Zealanders are a bit more low key almost in the way I think Canadians are a bit more like low key. Yeah. Americans like, very like brash and loud. I feel that difference a lot is.

[Rob]

The rivalry both because I feel like there's this in the United States between like New York and LA where like, there's this rivalry where I think New Yorkers hate LA a lot.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

But I feel like a lot of LA doesn't. I feel like we like New York.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Is it any of that?

[David Farrier]

I feel it's pretty evenly matched.

[Rob]

So Australians do get annoyed at New Zealanders too.

[David Farrier]

Absolutely. Yeah. I think we both get annoyed at each other. None of it is that serious. I don't know enough about sport to, like, understand the dynamics between teams, but I know, like, some of that exists, but mainly, like, our main thing is arguing over, like, who owns Russell Crowe, for instance. Like, is he Australian or New Zealand? Like, is the pavlova an American or, sorry, an Australian or a New Zealand invention? Is the flat white? Did that come from New Zealand or all that kind of shit?

[Rob]

And it's New Zealand's answer to all those oh, yeah.

[David Farrier]

We own all of it. Like, we. Unless we don't want it. Like, depending on, like, how we feel about Russell Crowe, sometimes we're like, no, Australia can have him. I'm a big Russell Crowe fan, so I'm like, he's definitely a Kiwi.

[Rob]

And then one of the most offensive things to you is if someone thinks you're Australian.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Rob]

Based on your accent.

[David Farrier]

I had it in just Huntington beach quite a few times. Like, in that because we're in a hotel, a lot of people had come in from different places. And yeah, a few people were like, australia, Right.

[Rob]

And that makes your blood boil.

[David Farrier]

I tense up.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

I tense up. Yeah. I'd rather someone call me, like, British or. I get South African sometimes, but Australian war.

[Rob]

Okay.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But in the.

[David Farrier]

In saying that this time I had in Australia was actually probably the most fun I've had there, I was kind of reminded of the things I liked about it in these episodes. We start in Sydney, we end up in Melbourne. But I would say I came away from it going slightly less of a rivalry in my mind, as there's peace there as people.

[Rob]

You guys both are very similar. I spent Christmas with an Australian. My. My good friend's wife is Australian.

[David Farrier]

Did it feel like there was similarities?

[Rob]

Yeah, I felt like I was hanging out with you the whole time.

[David Farrier]

That's so funny. So just great energy, great times, laughs.

[Rob]

There's, like, a dryness to the humor that I feel comfortable with.

[David Farrier]

Well, you're. I mean, you're so dry. Like, I feel like you instantly fit into either place because you are that level of, like, chill and dry as fuck. Which is a compliment.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. By the way, this episode does focus on shark attacks. We can sort of talk about what that means later. I just want to say I'm not an enemy of the shark. I think Hayden, in that call, he's definitely an enemy of the shark. When you look at the stats, Australia is definitely up there. When it comes to chances of being bitten by a shark, they're high. And so I think that's worth thinking about. And I thought while I'm there, I wanted to talk to people that had had some one on one time with a shark.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

When I was thinking about what stories I wanted to explore in Australia, the one that rose to the surface was shark attacks. Australia has, relatively speaking, a load of them. So many. There's a whole Wikipedia page called Shark Attacks in Australia. The University of Florida crunched the numbers and found that out of 69 unprovoked bites, that's what they call them around the world. In 2023, 22% of them happened in Australia. And there was an article in the Sydney Morning Herald last February titled, Australia had more fatal shark attacks than anywhere in the world last year. Which is true. Of course, it's easy to talk all this stuff up. Exactly what I'm doing right now. But statistically, you're thousands of times more likely to be hit by a car or suffer a multitude of injuries before you're even close to being bitten by a shark. It's a rare event. A rare event caused when humans decide to throw themselves through the shark's front door and is into their dining room, AKA the ocean.

[David Farrier]

But of course, while I was in.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Australia, I wanted to find out what it was like to be attacked by a shark. I didn't want to experience it myself. I have my limits. So instead I met up with Brett Canallen, who was born on the. Well, I'll just let him tell the story.

[Brett Canallen]

Born on the south coast of New South Wales in Kiama, which is a beautiful little seaside town. The best to way to describe it, it's been voted as Australia's best tourist town. So it's kind of like the quintessential seaside town. Like, it's got the fish and chip shops, it's got the ice creamery, which has always got a line out the door, and it's very well known for the blowhole. I've spent a lot of time in places outside of Kiama and outside of Australia, and it baffles me how many people know about Kiama because of the blowhole.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Let me interject here by saying, I love a blowhole. Nature's ultimate water fountain. A marine geyser that shows off how powerful the ocean can be.

[David Farrier]

Just explain the joy of a blowhole for people that haven't ever seen one or heard of one.

[Brett Canallen]

Well, it's such a rare experience, I think, like when you grow up around it, it's like, oh, it's the blowhole that's there. But I think it's not until you see it on an impressive day where you're standing there on the rocks and all of a sudden this enormous crash and bang happens and this spurt of water comes out of the rocks and. And I think that almost understates it. You kind of have to almost experience it. It's almost like the rocks are breathing.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Brett says on some days the blowhole in his town spurted water about 30 meters into the air. Some days it was smaller, depending on the weather.

[Brett Canallen]

I had Friends when I was younger who worked at the tourist information centre, and they'd have tourists come in being like, so what time does the blowhole turn on today? And they'd be like, no, it's a natural thing. We can't. We don't have a switch.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

I guess the point of all this is that Brett appreciates the ocean and growing up right next to it, it got into his bones.

[Brett Canallen]

I think there's an element to growing up around the ocean where it's just a matter of time before you're. You know, it's a part of your life and it's always different for a lot of people how that happens. But I think most kids, especially in the town that I lived in, you get into Nippers and, you know you're down at the beach every Sunday.

[David Farrier]

What's Nippers?

[Brett Canallen]

Most beaches have a surf club, and the surf club's responsible for patrolling the beach and making sure everyone's safe. They set up the flags and when people come down, they know where to swim and they're nice and safe there. And Nippers teaches a lot of the younger kids the skills to be able to navigate the ocean correctly. So you learn how to swim, paddle the board, you learn how to rescue people.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

At the time, he wasn't really imagining he would one day need rescuing. He was just having fun. He quickly took up bodyboarding, and by 11, he was surfing like his dad, and he says he never looked back.

[Brett Canallen]

But I think the thing about surfing that was the best was just how cool it was. When I was younger, it was only me and a couple of friends in school that surfed. And as soon as you jump on the surfboard, you're almost like, automatically a couple of steps cooler than what you were before. And that's probably not true, but I just felt like. Like it was such a cool thing. You look at pro surfers and the life that they get to live, and I always thought that was the coolest thing to be able to do growing up.

[David Farrier]

And certainly when you're surfing, how much.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Of a concern were sharks?

[Brett Canallen]

When you grow up around the ocean, you're always aware of that inherent risk that the ocean is where the sharks live and you have to be aware of that. I think there's always that bit of respect that you have to know when you're going in the ocean, you're going into their home, and it's the decision that you have to make whether you feel comfortable whether you're going in there or not. I had never. When I was younger. Had any encounters with sharks? I hadn't seen any. I think it had gotten to the point where you almost, you're not complacent, but you start to look at the fact that, you know, you've been surfing for 10 plus years, you've never seen a shark, you've never had any friends who've, you know, seen one or had an encounter, and you start to think those odds, there's of a lot, lot of other things you should be worried about.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

That's a very Australian mindset, I think, especially when it comes to nature, when so many things can potentially kill you, from spiders to snakes. At some point you just have to keep on living your life. You can't lock yourself away inside all day.

[Brett Canallen]

And that's kind of the problem with when you start to talk to people who are not from Australia who think that, you know, you walk out the front door and you're going to die every time you go outside. And it's not like that, but you can't live in fear at all times. And I'd probably gotten to the stage in my life where, again, not complacent, but you start to think the odds of that happening aren't realistic in a way that it's going to make a difference in how you approach going into the wild.

[David Farrier]

Of course, as tends to be the.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Case, the second you become complacent in life, well, shit's about to go down.

[David Farrier]

How did your morning start? What was the plan?

[Brett Canallen]

My Morning started at 2:30am, which is not the best time to start a day, but it actually started because I got a phone call from my boss. So I was working in a surf shop at the time and the phone call from my boss was to say that the surf shop had been broken into. Now a lot of people, people hear that and they say, that's an omen, you should have stayed in bed that day. But that's how my day started. And my day basically consisted of talking to police, trying to figure out what had happened, cleaning up the glass, documenting what had been lost and all these sorts of things. So by the end of the day, we didn't open the shop that day, but I had to clean up and wait for the front window to be replaced. So because I dealt with all of that and it's a pretty shit day anyway, that's what led to my decision to want to go for a surf. Because surfing for me, beyond just being something that I enjoy doing and something that I happen to be okay at was always something that I. It was a release, like, it's my sort of way of coping. So.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

So Brett was having a bad day. It was time to go leap in the sea. He texted some friends, or mates, as you call them, in Australia, seeing if they wanted to come. One of them, Joel, took the call.

[Brett Canallen]

So I'd been surfing for maybe 15 minutes when Joel decided to rock up and paddle out as well. He'd actually brought his partner down to the beach that day as well, which was super rare. They've been together for a long time, but she doesn't usually come down to the beach and watch him surf.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

This is an important detail because Joel's partner was a nurse. That would come in handy in a little bit.

[David Farrier]

Yes.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

I'm foreshadowing. You'll just have to put up with it.

[Brett Canallen]

I was just sitting at the back waiting for the next wave to come through. And I was literally sitting there saying to myself, man, it's been a bit pretty bad day, but at least I've been able to do this. At least I've been able to come and do something that I love. Chat to a mate, like, I'm feeling better than what I did. Definitely better than what I did at 2:30 that morning. And it was as I was having that thought, I was looking back towards the beach. Sun was just starting to sort of come down behind the hill there, and out of nowhere, I get struck from my right side with so much force. The best way I've used to describe it is I played a lot of sports when I was younger, played rugby. I was a small kid and I used to just get trucked by the bigger kids that would always tackle me. It felt like I was back on the footy field and just got hit so hard and got thrown off my board. I landed in the water and before I could even look around and figure out what had happened, I looked down and this shark, which has hit me from the right side, has swam around to the other side of me and had bitten me on my left leg in an instant. Like the time in between when it hit me and it swam around was so quick. And that moment where I realized what was happening was one of the most, most surreal moments I've ever experienced because there was this certain feeling of enormity of knowing what was happening. Like it's. You can't really rationalize what is going on in front of you. You just know that it feels like in that moment, everything else in the world doesn't matter. Everything stands still. It's just you and what is happening in front of you? And for me, it's that moment, I guess, where time really slows down almost to the point of stopping.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

During those slow mo matrix bullet time moments, he remembers three distinct things. They're things he still dreams about eight years later.

[Brett Canallen]

First one is the feel of the shark's skin. So as it bit me, the first thing I try and do is I put my hands on it and I realized that its skin is really rough. If you're into sharks, you know that. If not, it probably comes as a bit of a surprise. The second thing that stood out out to me was just the complete absence of sound. And it wasn't like there was any water splashing. It's not like the shark was making any noise. I was screaming in that moment, like screaming for help, based on what Joel had told me later on. But for me, it's just complete silence. And then the third thing I can remember is just the look, specifically of the shark's eye. So I'm like, looking down at this thing and I kind of just lock eyes with it doesn't really have the characteristic of an eye. It's just black. There's just this black dot which is staring at you. And the thing that I took away from that moment, and it wasn't necessarily like I was processing it in this much depth in the moment, but as I look back on what this memory felt like as I'm looking at the shark, there's no emotion in that. When you're looking at a shark, this is is a creature that's been designed over millions of years to survive, to find things to eat and kill. Like, I'm unfortunate that I was the thing that it was eating and trying to use to survive in that moment, but I think there's a feeling of almost hopelessness that you have because you can't argue with the shark. You can't tell it to stop. You can't reason with. You're just so insignificant in that moment when compared to how well designed this creature is.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

[David Farrier]

Support for Flightless Bird comes from Helix. Look, I've talked about this before on the pod, but I have been sleeping on a Helix bed now for about four years. And I love my Helix mattress. I took the quiz online. I got matched with a mattress, Midnight Mat that suits my sleeping type. It arrived at my front door and it's been a game changer.

[Rob]

Yeah, you have a terrible back. So having a bed that's good to sleep on is very important. And we both know how important sleep is and have always prioritized our sleep.

[David Farrier]

Sleeping is one of my favorite things to do. And yeah, the fact is I can do everything during the day to like, monitor my back and make sure I'm not doing anything stupid. But then if you're jumping into a bed that's terrible, you're undoing all of that.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Good work.

[David Farrier]

So, yeah, big thumbs up to Helix. You can go to helixsleep.combird for 20% off site wide. And yeah, I have spent a number of years before this on a really terrible mattress. And let me just tell you, you notice the difference. So go to helixsleep.combird for 20% off site wide and two free dream pillows with every mattress purchase.

[Rob]

That's helixsleep.combird for twenty percent off site wide and two free dream Pillows with your mattress purchase. Helixsleep.combird helixsleep.

[David Farrier]

Okay, so you're bit, you're looking down, you're looking into the eye. You're feeling this thing. The sound's gone. Eyeball staring at you. One eye or two eyes?

[Brett Canallen]

One eye because it's kind of from the side. There are two because they're on the side of the head. It's like the phrase is looking into its eyes, but it's not actually what's happening.

[David Farrier]

That's what I was thinking.

[Dave Pearson]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

One horrific eye looking at you. What happens next?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

It's on your leg.

[David Farrier]

What happens? What's the feeling?

[Brett Canallen]

So there's no pain. A protection mechanism that humans have developed when going through situations like that. I'm not thinking about this in the moment. I find this out later on. So there's no pain. I'm just acting on instinct. And the instinct for me in that moment, the first thing to do that everyone who's probably listening to the story, they're like, everyone's like, I've heard you got a point. Punch it. Heard you got to poke it in the eyes.

[David Farrier]

That's what I've been thinking.

[Brett Canallen]

Much easier said than done. Not sure if you've ever tried to punch through water before. Nearly impossible. My response is actually the incorrect response, but it's the one that probably makes the most sense. I pull away from the shark. So I guess it's the human response. Like if a spider crawls across the bench, he going to get away from. And that's what I do. The reason this is a mistake is when a shark has a hold of your leg and you pull away from it, it does realize your intentions and just let go. It holds on to that chunk of your leg and when you pull away from it just shreds.

[David Farrier]

Everything leg goes with it.

[Brett Canallen]

Exactly. So I lose a massive chunk of my left leg as I pull away from the shark.

[David Farrier]

In that moment, you sense that's happening. Do you see it or you don't know?

[Brett Canallen]

No. So right away my first instinct is to not look down. And I think a big part of that is just knowing that whatever's happening down there isn't going to help me. If anything, I just put my head down and try and swim as fast as I can. And I get about 20, 25 meters in and I have the terrifying thought. And it's the thought that I think a lot of people would associate with this moment. The thought is, I wonder if it's going to come back a second time. And it's a good thing that I have the thought because I look over my shoulder and see it coming through the water a second time and luckily have enough of a reaction to put my hands out to try and stop it. I'm right handed, so my right hand's got good aim that lands square on its nose. My left hand doesn't have as good an aim that goes into its mouth. This is my cool scar on my hand from just grazing its teeth, like just brushing against it.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

He holds out his hand to me. There's a gnarly jagged scar there.

[Brett Canallen]

Luckily get it out before it bites down. And I have both my hands on the nose of the shark cause it's pushing me through the water. I'm lucky that it's at least pushing me towards the beach. But I'm not gonna let this thing push me all the way to the sand. Like you want to get away from it as quick as possible. So I actually see a wave approaching and I think the best opportunity I have to get away from it is when the wave hits me, try and push it to one side as hard as I can and just hope that the wave pushes me into the beach.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

His plan works. Mostly he doesn't hit that wave gracefully in body surfing. He tumbles and tumbles and I look.

[Brett Canallen]

Up again and luckily this time I don't see the shark coming back for a third time. I actually see my mate Joel. He's actually paddling towards me as fast as he can.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

His mate Joel had heard Brett screaming. He'd seen what was happening and he was paddling directly towards Brett, which means he's paddling directly towards a shark. I think that's just worth pointing out because I'm not sure all of us would do that. The other thing in this picture, Brett has lost his surfboard. When the shark bit into his leg, it also bit through his leg rope, attaching him to the board. So Joel pulls him up onto his surfboard and paddles him the rest of the way into shore.

[Brett Canallen]

The first thing he does is he grabs my leg rope and ties it around my leg. He immediately knows I've got to tie a tourniquet because he can see how much blood that I'm losing. And there's a feeling like the moment I can touch sand, there's. There's relief not only in the fact that, you know, I'm no longer in the ocean and the shark is no longer a threat, but for me, there's the feeling of, okay, everything. From here on, there's help. Now, even though I didn't know how much help there was, there's the feeling when it's you versus the shark, you're totally helpless. But the moment Joel gets there and can start to get me to beach and to save me, it starts to feel like there's a little more, bit more hope.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Joel then sprints up the beach to find his wife, the nurse, who then calls, 00, 0. It's triple zero in Australia, not 91 1.

[Brett Canallen]

I was lucky that his partner is an intensive care nurse. And the other person that was walking along the beach very slowly and casually, who then came to help Joel tie tourniquets, was also a nurse. So not one nurse, but two nurses. It's got to be some of the luckiest things that I could ever consider. Like from where the shark bit me, it missed my femoral artery by 2 millimetres.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

This whole time, Brett didn't look down. He didn't look down at the damage until three weeks later. But he did clock how other people on the beach were reacting as they started to gather around him.

[Brett Canallen]

At the start, the first few people just looked shocked with what they saw. And again, that's another reason I didn't have to look down. I knew based on those looks that I knew how bad it was. But I had a lot of pain in my stomach when I was on the beach, and I thought I'd been bitten there. And I later on found out that was actually my organ starting to shut down due to blood loss.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Of course, this whole time I'm sitting here with Brett, I'm thinking, how bad was it? I mean, he's alive, he still has both legs. I can see that But I realise I'm not sure about shark attack etiquette. Am I meant to look down at his leg or is that rude? Luckily, he senses the elephant in the room and he pulls his shorts up a bit and shows me his thigh. And I react in an incredibly chill way. So that's what I'm looking at. An upper leg that has a lot of scar tissue and that's sort of sunken in.

[Brett Canallen]

I lost three quarters of my left quad. So as you can see, that's kind.

[David Farrier]

Of goes your whole.

[Brett Canallen]

Yeah, it goes from just above my knee all the way up to the upper part of my leg. So when they were talking about amputation at the start, it was going to have to be an incredibly high amputation, which is. No. Amputation is easy to deal with, but generally, the higher that it gets, the more difficult it is.

[David Farrier]

So essentially, so much of your leg was gone, they thought, we can't. The whole thing's gonna die off. We have to get rid of the leg.

[Brett Canallen]

Yeah. Especially if the bone had been okay.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

So back on the beach, a helicopter had come and gotten him. It was a bit late, as it had accidentally flown to the wrong beach. But once on board, he got two blood transfusions that saved his life. While he was unlucky to be bitten by that shark, he was also very lucky.

[Brett Canallen]

It not only missed that artery that I spoke about, but when I pulled away from it, it didn't bite all the way through. It kind of just grabbed onto the meaty part and tore it off. Almost like, I don't know, getting meat off a bone. Like, I don't know, there's probably a cooking reference you can use there somewhere.

[David Farrier]

But sort of meant eating a kebab and sort of pulling the meat off the stick.

[Brett Canallen]

Yeah, that's probably the best way.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

The surgeon had a plan. The teen took his lat muscle off his back. That's the muscle that runs from just under your underarm all the way down to the lower back. They took that entire muscle out and transplanted it onto his leg. So the muscle I'm currently seeing flex on his thigh is actually his back muscle. They connected the blood supply to keep it alive. They connected a big nerve. Then they took skin from his calf, hamstring, and upper hip to cover up the damage. Good news, he had his leg. Bad news, the doctors told him he'd never surf again. It was at this point Brett got a visit from the Bite Club.

[Brett Canallen]

So there's something called the Bite Club, which is a support group for people who've Been attacked by sharks.

[David Farrier]

It's so specific. Is this an Australian thing or a worldwide thing?

[Brett Canallen]

It is a worldwide thing, but it started in Australia. There's a guy whose name's Dave Peter, and he actually came and visited me in hospital. And anytime someone is attacked, he'll either go and visit them himself or send someone in to go and visit the person. And the main purpose of the Bite Club is what they do is they realize that it's a very rare occurrence. And you can feel very alone in what you're going through because of that. And it's just about creating a little bit of community and the knowledge that you're not the only person who's gone through it. So they pair you up.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

And this is the strange thing when it comes to thinking about shark attacks. It's something I've been thinking about a lot this whole time. There are the scaremongering stats that you.

[David Farrier]

Can pull out, like the ones I.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Did at the start, how some years, Australia has more fatal shark attacks than anywhere else in the world. But at the same time, they're so, so rare. It's their rarity that makes them so interesting. But it also means that if you're attacked by a shark, very few people can understand what it's like. That's why I wanted to talk to the president of the Bite Club Club, who says, and I quote, the initiation is a real bitch.

[Dave Pearson]

Well, my name's Dave Pearson. The bike club was born out of my search for answers to how do I move forward after my shark attack.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Dave's shark attack happened about 13 years ago now. Like with Brett, he was attacked by a bull shark while he was surfing, but instead of clamping down on his leg, it went for his arm.

[Dave Pearson]

Movies are pretty corny, aren't they, when you watch some of the movies. But I remember sitting on my board watching the blood and how far it was actually squirting out of the. The artery in my arm. And I went, holy dooley. You know, that's. That was probably going good five to six foot away, because my heart would have been pumping like a train. And I looked down at my arm and the bones are white. And I went, oh, bones are white. You know, like just stupid things and trying to tackle the muscle and skin back together and squeeze the. The. The vein and try and stop the bleeding. And, you know, it was then I became aware that one of the guys was actually shouting out to me, and I went, I've just been attacked by a shark. And. And he was quite a fair way away, probably 20 meters, maybe 30 meters away. And according to the other guys, was screaming. Dave, was that a shark? Was that a shark? And I was unresponsive because I was obviously stunned. When I came through, all I heard was him screaming at the top of his lungs, Dave, was that a shark? Went by. Then I was looking around at the water, bright red around me, and I went, that's me and this big shark underneath me. And what astounded me was the actual physical size of it. It was huge. It was like watching a 44 gallon drum swimming around underneath you. And it was big and broad. I went, that's not good. So I'm trying to get in. And the next thing I'm back on the bottom of the ocean getting rolled around by a wave, feeling all the skin on and muscle on my left arm flapping around as I'm doing it. And I'm thinking, don't fall off. Like my skin don't fall off. I' to need that hopefully. And so I'm trying to hold that together under the water. And then I came up to the surface and got hit. You know, waves come in three and four wave sets and I got every single one of them on the head. And it was when I was underwater, I think probably after the fourth one, and I was seeing all the stars, I'd run out of air, I was blacking out. I went, wow, I'm going to die. And I went, wow, fancy dying, surfing. It was just like time slowed down so much. And I went, well, I've had, it's not such a bad way to die in the ocean. I, I remember thinking that and I went, I've had a pretty good life. You know, by then I was, I was 48 year old. I thought, I've had a pretty good life. And so I was okay with dying. And then I went, I started thinking about my kids. You know, my daughter was 17 year old at the time. You know, my son was 25. I had a partner, she was looking after me all the time. And I went, went, I can't die today. And I went, not today, Dave. And just when I said that, I kind of felt the sand under my feet. I pushed as hard as I could and got back to the surface. And once again, you see, they do it good in movies. You suck in that air and it's just like, wow, that's the sweetest thing ever, is just that oxygen that you suck in.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

I've talked on this podcast before about how Americans, not all of them, but some of Them like to talk things up a lot. In New Zealand and in Australia, we tend to downplay things. And Dave's next sentence is a perfect example of this.

[Dave Pearson]

A bit of an eventful afternoon, but one that has, I guess, a happy ending.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Like Brett, he had friends out surfing with him, and they too paddled directly towards their friend to help. Dave lived. Surgeons got very close to an amputation because in his case, the shark had bitten into his bones. Infection was a real threat. He got lucky, though, and kept his arm, but was left with psychological problems.

[Dave Pearson]

Along with the pain was the bad dreams and then obviously the mental trauma that came with it. So I was looking for answers for that. I decided because when I was in hospital, there was a girl who had been attacked a week prior to myself. And we actually spoke when I was in hospital. And it was a great conversation. And it was one of them moments in your life where you went, wow, wow, I know this person, even though I've never met them. And we'd been through very similar shark attacks. Our injuries were similar. And it was honestly answering each other's questions was just like repeating your own words. It was unbelievable. And from that connection, I went, you know what, there's something in this.

[David Farrier]

The woman was a lot younger than.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Dave, about the age of his daughter at the time. And it was from that conversation that the Bite Club was formed.

[Dave Pearson]

I just started talking to other shark attack survivors, was trying to find answers. And what I actually found was a whole Polish architect survivors all looking for the same answers. One of our members put it eloquently a few years ago after I'd met him in hospital and told him about what his future is going to be like and all them great things he said to me at a. When at a gathering once, he said, dave, he said, I remember laying in hospital wondering what was going to happen with the rest of my life. And he said, and then you came and now you tell me that you were looking for answers. He said, we have become the answer. And it was very profound from to say that, because I knew exactly what he meant. And the answer is having someone who's familiar with the same experience to be able to talk to and share it with. And we don't judge each other, we don't compare injuries and go, oh, look, I'm much worse than you, or you've got nothing to complain about. We're all the same. And it's just awesome. We have become the answer of what we're all looking for, which is great.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Dave doesn't discount the other help he got, talking to a therapist about his anger at the world, why this rare event had happened to him, was helpful. But talking to other survivors, he discovered they all offered each other something they could only get from each other.

[Dave Pearson]

As everybody said when they'd been to a psychologist, the psychologist could not relate to their experience. And I'm not just saying that because it's a shark attack. I've spoken with lots of people, return veterans, cancer survivors, all different sorts of trauma survivors. And a cancer survivor knows how to talk to another cancer survivor. A return soldier knows how to talk to another return soldier. They've got that shared experience, and nobody else can come in and say, yeah, I know exactly how you feel, because you don't. And it's the same with us. So it's just ours is just sharks. We're no more important than any other trauma survivor. It's just that's our uniqueness, is that there's not a lot of us.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

While Bite Club is a play on Fight Club, the two clubs have very little in common. Really, they're the opposite.

[Dave Pearson]

The first rule about Bite Club is you talk about your attack, and you talk about your attack to people who you can trust and people who you care, because every time you talk about it, you can let a little bit of some of that trauma dissipate and learn to deal with it a little bit more.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

The other thing I found really fascinating about Bite Club is that it's a way to prep people on how to tell their story.

[David Farrier]

Like, once you're attacked by a shark.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

People want to talk to you about it. I mean, that's why I'm talking to Brett and Dave for this podcast. In attacking you, a shark is also cursing you to a life of having to talk about it, the attack, again.

[David Farrier]

And again and again.

[Dave Pearson]

I think I might have said to Brett, which is I say to a lot of guys that I meet in hospital, should start working on different versions of your attack, because your family members or those that you trust and those who really care about you, they probably want the whole story. The horror needs to go to the people who can handle it. And there's some people who want to just hear your story so they can run out to the next pub and tell all their mates about, oh, this great story that I just picked up from another guy. So they don't get the full story. They don't get the nightmare and the tears and the broken relationships and all the other shit that comes with this.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

The bike club now boasts 500 members, a membership that's growing slowly, but it's growing. Brett credits it with helping him wrap his head around his injury and his recovery, especially after those doctors had told him he'd never surf again. Some advice from his physiotherapist also stuck. People fail not from aiming too high and missing, but from aiming too low and hitting. He decided to aim high.

[Brett Canallen]

And for me, that was the first moment that I started looking at what I'd been told by the doctors and realising that I kind of had a choice of whether to be defined by that and to be limited by it, or to set something lofty and ambitious. And whether I reached it or not didn't matter.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Thing is, he did reach it. He surfed again. Five months after starting rehab, he was back in the water and back on his board. From there, the bike club helped him come to terms with the mental stuff, the big picture stuff, the why me? Out of millions and millions of people stuff. I mean, one second you're out enjoying the water, the next, a perfectly evolved predator is trying to rush, rip all of your limbs off. Once you've physically healed, you're left to come to terms with how you see yourself and how you fit into a world that deemed you the target.

[David Farrier]

As many sharks as there are in the waters around Australia, it's still incredibly unlikely that would happen, definitely.

[Brett Canallen]

So I think there is something strange about feeling that. And that's what led to, later on, struggles that I had with the experience of the why me? Like, when you look at the odds and you consider how unlucky you have to be in order to be that one person, it's really easy to take on that victim mentality, especially when you're trying to regather so much of your life from that point. So Bombo beach has a train line and a highway that goes alongside it. And as I was physically being bitten by a shark, like being attacked in a fight for my life, there's people driving past that have no idea what's going on. And I think there's something that's both beautiful and also devastating about the realization that for one person, this is the biggest thing in their life that has ever happened and will probably ever happen. Everyone else, it's just a regular day that it's going home from work. Right now, there's someone going through something devastating that you and I don't know about.

[David Farrier]

Probably a couple of hundred metres away, there'll be something horrific happening that will be the biggest thing in that person's life. We're sitting in here in you know, in a very beautiful park.

[Brett Canallen]

Yeah. And I think that, for me, was my way of almost coming to terms with the fact that, yeah, bad things do happen, but you're not the only one. If there is, in a way, some kind of hope that you can put or a positive spin that you can add to it, it's just knowing that the struggles that we go through is almost universal as humans and you don't want everyone to have to go through them. But, I mean, overall, they're unavoidable. Not everyone's going to be attacked by a shark, but everyone will feel the same things that I've felt in going through that struggle.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

That's something echoed by Dave, who says it's an idea reached by many in the bike club. They all seem to start in this place of confusion, frustration and anger after the attack. But after a lot of talking and processing, they're mostly left with a lot of empathy for others.

[Dave Pearson]

Honestly, there's hundreds of things that I've learned from the people I've met, but the number one is everybody's struggling with something. And I always say that you never know what the person beside you is going through. So don't discount how people feel. Always try and show a bit of empathy and try and see things from their point of view and try and understand how they're approaching what their struggle is. And if you can help them, even a kind word or an arm around the shoulder just makes a huge difference. So, yeah, just the number one thing would be to try and understand and not judge others. I get to hang out with some of the world's most inspirational people. And as a young guy who was attacked just a few months ago just up the coast from me, I seen footage a few days ago of him trying to surf one legged, no prosthetic, just balancing on one leg on a wave and standing. And you go, this young guy, as tough as his life's gonna be with only one leg now, he's gonna be so much of an inspiration to so many people and already is. So his attitude is he's got a filthy mouth, but, you know, he said, this fucking thing's not gonna fucking beat me. So that's. That's his way of looking at it. And you go, good on you. You know, like, it is just so good. Like, you just look at these guys, their jaws are laying in the water from watching this and you go, this guy is just inspiring people by doing. Just doing life. Yeah, yeah, I get to. I get to experience that all the time. It is Honestly, so uplifting.

[David Farrier]

Holy dooley is a really great phrase that Dave Pierce said that I love so much.

[Rob]

Another great phrase that I heard. Joy of a blow hole.

[Dave Pearson]

Yep.

[David Farrier]

Look, I love a blow hole. I, I got distracted in that documentary. I was like, we have to talk about this blow hole.

[Rob]

I normally associate them with like a whale.

[David Farrier]

No. So I, I think blowhole is like. Yeah. A hole in a rock near the ocean and water is like forced up through there and it erupts Like a big geyser.

[Rob]

Yeah, like a geyser.

[David Farrier]

Right, Good geyser. Yeah. So I, I love, I do love the word bow hole and I do love that you were giggling like old schoolboy during that entire, entire segment. So much. Yeah. That was just. They struck me both those men are just, they're so deeply Australian because they are so light hearted about everything and just say everything in such a practical matter of fact way.

[Rob]

Well, and you found like the surfer beach Australians too, which is like the stereotypical Australian.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. I didn't know about the bike club. I didn't either until Brett told me about it. And I was just like, sorry, coming in the bike club. And I find it so fascinating that there are enough shark attacks where they have formed a club.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

A support group for victims because they go, they go through such a specific thing that no one else knows about.

[Rob]

Yeah. Well, it's crazy because of how rare a shark attack is. But there's this growing group of people that have had them and they're all kind of from the same in group. If they're in a place where they're at a beach and they're either surfing or a lot of them are surface.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

So it is like this weird community that exists and is continuing to grow even though, like you always hear the statistics of like, it's more likely you'll get struck by lightning than get bitten by a shark. But I don't, I don't know of any struck by lightning clubs.

[David Farrier]

No, no, no, exactly. It's like, it's such a good idea. And I think, of course, like, it is so rare and I know there'll be shark enthusiasts listening to this that are like, oh God, not another like scaremongering story.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

But what I really like about both these men is that they both got back in the water. Both of do not resent sharks at all.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

To the point where. And I'm going to get my shark breeds confused here, but essentially Brett, when he was talking to the authorities there, lied about what type of shark it was because he knew if he said what breed it was, they would go out and try and potentially kill that shark. So he basically said protected species instead. And so they didn't go out to that shark. Yeah, because, like. And that's what these men like. They like sharks, even though they went through one of the most terrifying experience. And that blew me away.

[Rob]

So if you get bitten by a shark, you going back in the water after never.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, no. I mean, I. So my. My brother is a real outdoors guy and his. His wife is as well, and they're kids. So my nieces are all super outdoorsy. They're always in the ocean. They have sharks around like, quite a bit and they are like, inquisitive. And my nieces are so fearless. Like, they're not stupid. Like, if it's a certain size or the sharks are getting worked up, up, they'll stop snorkeling or diving. But they're in with sharks all the time. I'm always like, I say to them, like, the second I see a shark in the water, like, they send me like GoPro footage of them. I'm like thrashing around and getting out of like a seal absolutely. As quickly as possible.

[Rob]

It's prey.

[David Farrier]

At that point, I'm panicking completely. Like, I have no time for that whatsoever. Like, I. Not in a million years would you.

[Rob]

Take any comfort in knowing. So as statistically improbable it is to be bitten by a shark, it's got to be even more to be bitten by a shark twice.

[David Farrier]

That's what you think. But then like, it resets. Right. Like the second you go in the water. Yeah, it's like the same chances again.

[Rob]

There's no way I would if. Yeah, I'd never. I wouldn't even take a bath again.

[David Farrier]

No, just no water.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

No water.

[David Farrier]

No water at all. But though I guess it's like part of the culture, like, I think a certain sort of person will be a surfer. And the ones that are out there enough to get bitten more are a certain sort of person as well. And they're just, I don't know, maybe more like logical or less panicky or. I don't know what it is, but I like all of them. Like so many people in the bike club end up going back in the water, often to the same places that they surfed before. The one thing they say they do change is they are more sensible about the time that they surf. And so there's certain times when sharks will be feeding. They avoid those times.

[Rob]

Yeah, I mean, I Would imagine the water life is.

[David Farrier]

Is.

[Rob]

It means something different to them than it does. Like when's the last time you were in the ocean?

[David Farrier]

I didn't even go out. I've been by the ocean for the last three days. Didn't get in once.

[Rob]

I don't think I could tell you the last time I went in the ocean.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. You don't strike me as like a big ocean guy.

[Rob]

We lived like two miles from the ocean at one point.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

And we went for like two years. We lived there and we probably went to the beach twice and into the ocean.

[David Farrier]

0 the one thing that Brett and Dave both mentioned that I hadn't thought about before meeting them is just how. Just on like a deep, profound level. It kind of screwed up their worldview for a while with our like, why me? That whole idea of like, statistically if this can happen, that is so deeply unfair and just having to kind of reckon with that.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Which makes sense now I think about it. But at the time, like I just didn't think of that aspect to a shark attack. I'm like, it's going to be painful. The rehab will be horrific. But you also have to reckon with a universe that deemed you the one to get like a leg half ripped off. It's just a very. And I've never. I'm lucky in that. I've never had anything really bad happen to me. And so I struggle to like understand what that would be like. Like I've been lucky.

[Rob]

Yeah. I mean I think anything involving like primal wild animals attacking you.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Pretty life altering.

[David Farrier]

Totally.

[Rob]

And like we to be prey of something.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. We walk around thinking like we're the apex predator. Right. But it's like at times you're reminded that, oh no, in the ocean, like you're absolutely not. And this thing can like completely mess you up. Like the worst animal encounter I've had would be like that squirrel that bit me, you know. But that wasn't like Apex. That was just my own stupidity and like putting my hand up.

[Rob]

We a couple Christmases ago went to stay on a farm in Texas that had a bunch of miniature goats.

[David Farrier]

And there was one of the most threatening animals.

[Rob]

Not big, but there was one little one that was like they want to chat. Satanic. Like would just wanted to fight.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob]

And like cornered Calvin. We had to go and like try to get this goat. And one like an animal gets into that state and is like just out of control. It. It's scary. Like him climbing. Like Calvin was climbing up on the picnic Table trying to get away from it and like, oh, my God.

[David Farrier]

That's the thing. Like my friends in New Zealand and this is going to sound like a joke, but they had a pet sheep and this sheep, like this. I don't. I don't really understand goats and. Well, I had a pet goat, but I sort of understand the mentality. But they do like, to like, like.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Charged into things and that's fun for them. So the sheep, if you like, if you got down at its level and like, made eyes at it, it would head down and it would just like pummel into you.

[Rob]

Yes, that's what this is doing.

[David Farrier]

Which is fine when you're my size. But little Calvin is like, oh, little guy.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Oh, my God. I'm glad you were there to like, pull him out.

[Rob]

Yeah, I had to just like throw him over the fence to get him away from this goat.

[David Farrier]

Before I forget in the show notes for this Dave Pierce, by the way, like, there's a Facebook group for the bike and I know this is going to be very rare, but he's like, if you've got any listeners who have been, like, attacked by a shark, which is so rare. Again, he's like, put my email in your show notes. And so I'll do that because he just desperately wants to be able to talk to people because he's like, this is. That's his passion in life.

[Rob]

Do you think we have any listeners that have been. I hope not by a shark?

[David Farrier]

I mean, also maybe like CC us in the email as well.

[Rob]

Let us have.

[David Farrier]

Because I'm super curious. But it's. I mean, there are shark attacks all over the world. There's a chance our listeners have been.

[Rob]

Yeah. And I guess we. Maybe our audience is higher in New Zealand and California shark attack areas.

[David Farrier]

No, do so. Yeah. Email flightless bird chat gmail.com. when you email Dave Pierce at the Fight Club, our show notes will have his email. And I'm also. Brett is also does motivational speaking and I'll put a link for him in there as well. Both of them are just, I don't know, I complain a lot about stuff, like about the tiniest things. And meeting those two men who have had one of the scariest things, like they've been in Jaws, they've been in that movie, and they're still like laughing and happy to talk about things and have wisdom about it, blew my mind.

[Rob]

Yeah, I feel like so many of those stories too. Like there's all of these little miracles and things that are happening as part of it, too, where, like, there's three nurses within range and that millimeters away from an artery.

[David Farrier]

Totally from that. It's like, why me? But also, oh, no, something is looking out for me.

[Dave Pearson]

Me.

[David Farrier]

And I am also okay.

[Rob]

Somehow through all of this, luckily, unlucky or.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, it was that, though, because, like, it was like, lucky I get to have a surf. Unlucky shark attacked me. Lucky two nurses at the beach. Unlucky helicopter lands at the incorrect beach with, like, all the blood on board. Lucky I survive. It's like, it's just up and down the entire time. And it balanced out with him being alive and now being, like, happy to talk about it. And also something I hadn't thought about until now is, like, he is cursed with having to tell that story again and again and again.

[Rob]

I did like him talking about the different versions for the different people. And who wants to hear what. Yeah, like, you've got your bar. Your bar. Yeah, Your bar buddy's version of it. Your family's version of it, and then other survivors.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, the bar. You don't want to suddenly be, like, talking about your psychological wounds and breaking down every time. You have this, like, little package of what I just recounted. Wow, There were two nurses there. Ha ha. The helicopter went to the wrong beach. It's like, different things. Else you're just. Yeah, you're telling the intense story every time. No, thanks. So, yeah, sharks, be careful in the water. Check what time you're surfing, that it's not shark feeding time. And we've got two more Australian stories to tell. I think we'll break that format next week and do A Californian fires flightless bird. But then we'll get back into some Australian stories are all very, very different and unusual. Feedback. I've got a little bit from our previous episodes. Just quickly, again, a reminder, if you're a first responder or you lost a home in the fire or you have some sort of firsthand knowledge to share when it comes to the Californian wildfires, record a voice memo and send it into flightless bird chat gmail.com. we may include that in next week's episode. A lot of listeners are finding out that. And I've talked about this before, Roosevelt's name is not Roosevelt. So I wonder if you can help me with accents.

[Rob]

Yes, Rosabelle.

[David Farrier]

Rosabelle as in a beautiful rose flower and a big bell.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Rosa.

[Rob]

Rosa in Spanish. Right, because it's R O S a rose.

[David Farrier]

Ah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

R O S A B, E, L. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Farrier]

So Spanish rose bell Rosabelle. What about that Sounds like Roosevelt.

[Rob]

I can hear it when you say it.

[David Farrier]

Rosabelle.

[Rob]

Roosevelt.

[David Farrier]

Anyway, it's not Roosevelt, it's Roosevelt.

[Rob]

Anyway, it's not like you just said the same thing. It's not Roosevelt that's the problem.

[David Farrier]

It's his voice. So anyway, just clarifying, Deb wrote in saying I might not be your target demographic. I'm 66 years old and I love your podcast. And then we also got got an email from Jill, straight up, just saying, my son Joseph is almost 10, loves listening to your podcast and I thought that's nice. And also the 10 year old loves playing with Lego. So further proof that I am just a child.

[Rob]

Calvin. Weirdly out of nowhere last night we went to drop some clothes off for donation at another family's house. I was collecting it. He was like, can we watch Jaws tonight?

[David Farrier]

Oh, really?

[Rob]

Out of nowhere I went to watch Jaws.

[David Farrier]

I saw where that came from.

[Rob]

We did the like back lot Universal tour. Like not recently though, over a year ago.

[David Farrier]

But it made an impact.

[Rob]

And he got real freaked out by the Jaws part because you like drive the car up and then the shark comes out of the water.

[David Farrier]

So what age would you like let a kid watch Jaws? Because that is like a primordial terror.

[Rob]

Yeah, I don't think he's old enough. He got like freaked out from Squid Games. The Squid Games 2 trailer. Okay.

[David Farrier]

I was gonna say I'm not surprised he got freaked out.

[Rob]

He got freaked out like a, like would not go to sleep. He's like, every time I close my eyes to go to sleep, I see Squid Games.

[David Farrier]

Oh, little guy. I've got friends with kids and I feel like sometimes like the posters for different horror films are like way too scary for kids to see.

[Rob]

We're just like scrolling the Apple movies sometimes. And like Long Legs has been on there for the longest time. And like that image. No, like just seeing terror across from Maru. They had the alien billboard for the longest time.

[David Farrier]

Oh, which is that like face hugger on a face, right?

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Which just as you as an image is just terrible. Horrifying.

[Rob]

Yeah. Like Vincent pointing at that and like asking what that is.

[David Farrier]

Dada. Just like new fear unlocked for your kid. I. So I don't envy him being a parent Sometimes it's like seems so hard.

[Rob]

Kelvin also does this thing where he's got a friend that has an older brother.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

That claims that he sees everything. Like I heard he saw Smile too. Like we can watch that. Right. And I'm just like, there's one there's no way.

[David Farrier]

This kid's full of.

[Rob]

And, like, I know you're gonna be scared. As if.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

I'm like, cool, let's. Let's do this, buddy. Let's watch this.

[David Farrier]

Not in a million years, because. Yeah, you'll be dealing with that for, like, years of, like, weird bad dreams and stuff.

[Rob]

Yeah. I mean, I. I remember seeing it when I was about his age.

[David Farrier]

Oh, the Tim Curry. Yeah. And, yeah, I.

[Rob]

It's. It scarred me.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. I feel like. Because that was a TV miniseries. Right. So that was just on tv.

[Dave Pearson]

Yeah.

[Rob]

And there's the. The blood in the drain and then the bathtub and, like, shower thing.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob]

Like, that freaked me out for so long.

[David Farrier]

It's funny. It's funny. The images that. I think even when they make those films, sometimes they don't know the image that is going to be seared into, like, some people's brains. Like, there's certain things that are just like.

[Rob]

That carry sewers.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Yeah. Whenever I see a sewer. Sewer drain, it's. It.

[Rob]

Yep.

[David Farrier]

Permanently change, like, what sewer drains represent. I hate sewer drains so much. And in la, they are big. Yeah. There was a guy the other day, like, fish, I think something had fallen. He, like, had his arm and he was, like, literally fishing down there for something. Oh. I was like, no, no, no. Zed wrote in when I mentioned Focus on the Family, that I want to do a story about that particular conservative Christian group. He said, I was raised in a family that strictly adhered to the tenants of Focus on the Family. I wouldn't call it a cult, but it's basically a cult. I know a few families that were into it. Like a cult. I'd love to hear an episode this and then share it with my nine siblings. Also, my parents wrote a book about having as many kids as possible, as commanded by God, allegedly. I'd love to talk about it if you want an inside perspective. So I will get back to you, Zed. Kurt said, and this was in regards to the Black Box of Doom episode where we mentioned the guinea worm about sort of how you extract them from human skin. Kurt said, I hope I'm not the first to point this out to you. Jimmy Carter worked tirelessly to eradicate the guinea worm, and his funeral is this week. And you covered the guinea worm and you failed in all caps to make the connection. I thought that was amazing. So thanks, Jimmy Carter, for your tireless work to eradicate the guinea worm. R said, I love the Black Box of Doom episode and so many feelings. I Have a five year old son and I'm so scared of him growing up on the Internet. He doesn't have any access now but some of his schoolmates do, which are five of them is pretty intense.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And it's wild to me. How do I protect him from going down some weird pipelines. We're aiming to make sure he doesn't have unsupervised Internet access until he's in secondary school. And we already do and will continue to have an age appropriate conversation about what might be on there. Fingers crossed again. I don't envy you having kids. Those conversations about like how to use the Internet without, you know.

[Dave Pearson]

Yeah.

[Rob]

I mean Calvin's asked about TikTok.

[David Farrier]

Has he?

[Rob]

Yeah. It's like absolutely not getting tick tock.

[David Farrier]

That's the thing. Like other kids as you say, like kids are just like siphoning stuff in, you know, so come home from school with like a whole lot of like requests.

[Rob]

But then there is like the element of like get him something that, where he can start to learn at such a young age. Like he's got this stupid little digital camera that's like a kid's one but he was just sitting on his bed like playing and it has like you can manipulate the photos to like.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

Blow someone's cheeks up. Like he's figuring that out and just like having the best time with that.

[David Farrier]

Like loving it. Yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

So there is like hopefully a way where you can still keep the pureness of it totally without it going down.

[David Farrier]

That big, completely black. I think the second you're like connected online and one information can lead to like one video, leads to another, leads to another. That's where you're in. Having like a device that's sealed within that device like that cap camera. Great.

[Dave Pearson]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Scrapbooking. We mentioned an episode about that that we want to do. If you do an episode on scrapbooking, said Erica, I would suggest looking into the multi level marketing scheme. Creative memories. My mum got wrapped up in it for a few years. It's a whole different level. So that could be an MLM scrapbooking crossover.

[Rob]

What if we just get sucked into a multi level marketing scheme?

[David Farrier]

Oh my God. I wouldn't put it past, I wouldn't put it past me. I told you about the guy that drove by my street and he, he was in a van. It was like a nice van. It was new and fancy. Had like, he looked like he'd like, I don't know, some sort of like practical worker kind of guy. Stubbies. Do you know the word stubbies?

[Rob]

No, I have no idea what you just said.

[David Farrier]

Like short shorts.

[Rob]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

He looked like a handyman type. He was like hey, come here. And he's like I work installing TVs and this customer just returned this projector and speaker system and if I take it back to the factory it's just going to get sent back but I can sell it to you now for cash for this amount of money. I look back at it now, he'd clearly it was stolen and he was selling it. But I was moments away from going to an ATM and pulling out like a bit of cash. I think it was maybe a thousand dollars he wanted but he had these. I did the QR code. He's like QR code And see what this is worth. It was about $20,000 worth of like audio gear, projector, screen, speakers. Clearly stolen.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

My point is I am the sort of person that would get sucked into an MLM. Natasha said, I've been scrapbooking for 20 years. I live in Canada. Oh, instantly discounted. And once a year a group of six of us women go to a place called Cypress Hills. A woman from Ontario puts on a scrapbooking retreat at a Hotel Resort. 80 plus women of all ages come for four days straight of scrapbooking.

[Rob]

Women only allowed maybe.

[David Farrier]

I wonder if there's men allowed. It's actually maybe it is just a female women's retreat. I'll see if they'll let me in. So yeah. Again, any feedback? Flightless bread chat gmail.com if you had any direct stories that you wanted to share about the Californian files fires record a voice note just with your name and your story and email it and that would be awesome. Awesome. No, yeah. If you're listening and you're in California, just stay safe and check in on friends and family. And there's a lot of different groups that are gathering food together and clothing. So maybe look for some of your own stuff. You can donate if you want to help and if you have been affected, our thoughts are with you and we'll talk to that a little bit more next week. Stay safe, safe and stay tuned for Kelvin.

[Kelvin]

I have a book that has about 589 facts in it about sharks. If you touch their skin you'll get a cut. There's about 250 types of sharks.

[Rob]

What would you do if you met a shark?

[Kelvin]

If I was in the middle of the sea I would probably try fighting because there won't be any choice. If I was near land I would try to swim away.

[Rob]

How do you fight a shark?

[Kelvin]

I don't know. Kick it?

[Dave Pearson]

I don't.

[Kelvin]

You can't really touch it or your hand will get, like, bleedy.

[Rob]

Where would you hit it?

[Kelvin]

The tail.

[Rob]

You said the other night you wanted to watch the movie Jaws. Do you know about the movie Jaws?

[Kelvin]

Yeah.

[Rob]

What can you tell me about the movie?

[Kelvin]

It's a really fierce shark and, like, a bunch of people want to, like, kill it. And, like, a bunch of people swim in this beach and attacks all the people in the beach, in the water.

[Rob]

Where did you hear about this?

[Kelvin]

Universal. See you next time in our podcast. Bye, like and subscribe.