Best Friends: Animal Cult

Summary

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Flightless Bird – "Best Friends: Animal Cult"

Date: January 6, 2026
Host: David Farrier (with Rob, co-host)
Main Guest: Jared Garrett
Theme: Unpacking the bizarre, cultic origins of America’s largest animal rescue organization, Best Friends Animal Society, and how its hidden past still lingers today.

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Episode Overview

In this investigative episode, David Farrier and cohost Rob dive into the extraordinary story behind Best Friends Animal Society—America's largest and most influential animal rescue organization. With endorsements from celebrities like Mark Wahlberg and a "no-kill" mission celebrated nationwide, Best Friends seems like pure-hearted philanthropy. But as David reveals through interviews and deep reporting (originally begun for his Webworm newsletter), its roots are tangled in the bizarre history of a satanic cult, child labor, and a legacy of secrecy that persists in its culture today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Animal Charities in America vs. New Zealand

• Intro Banter: David and Rob open with a lighthearted exchange before quickly pivoting to the subject of animal shelters—touching on how animal advocacy is a "safe" celebrity cause in America.
• Cultural Divide:
  • New Zealand’s SPCA is strict and publicly sanctioned, while in America, animal shelters are highly marketing-driven, often powered by celebrity endorsement and philanthropy (06:16–10:07).
  • Discussion about the effectiveness and emotion-driven tactics of American animal charity commercials, specifically referencing the iconic Sarah McLachlan ad which raised $30 million in a year (07:46–08:57, 09:01).

2. The Allure—and Pitfalls—of Animal Rescue

• No-Kill Ideals and Intrapersonal Drama:
  • Best Friends’ "no-kill" mission adds intense pressure on other shelters and can often create situations where animals are rapidly placed without due vetting (11:16–12:25).
  • David points out the animal rescue world, especially in America, attracts a certain “level of derangement”—there’s a competitive, almost cult-like mentality, and organizational politics can get “so fucking feral so quickly here in America” (12:31–14:00).
  • Quote (David):
    • “There is a certain like cult think within those worlds that get really crazy… Animal rescuers are in a whole other level of intensity.” (13:23)

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3. Best Friends Animal Society Today: Success on the Surface

• One of the largest sanctuaries in America—30,000 acres in Utah, about 1,500 animals, brings in over $100 million annually (14:18–15:55).
• Marketed as an all-American success story with facilities nationwide, TV series (“DogTown” on Nat Geo), and celebrities leading campaigns (15:55–16:40).

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4. The Hidden Origin: A Cult Called The Process

• Interview with Jared Garrett – Cult Survivor
  • Jared’s parents were recruited into The Process Church of the Final Judgment—a British-born cult with roots in Scientology, infamous in the 1960s–70s (17:00–19:45).
  • The cult revered four deities—Jehovah, Lucifer, Satan, Christ—allowed members to choose allegiances, cultivated a dramatic, apocalyptic image, wore black cloaks, kept German shepherds, and sparked rumors of satanic murder (19:45–21:13, 25:39).
  • Internal family structures were intentionally destabilized; even parentage was kept secret from the children (27:33–28:55).
  • Quote (Jared, on childhood):
    • “We didn’t have anything even resembling [stability]. Just that neglect and abuse can be a trauma. And it was bad.” (30:13)

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5. The Pivot: From Cult to Animal Charity

• The Process eventually rebranded as "The Foundation Faith of God," still commune-like, with a fascination for animal rescue (22:59–25:32).
• Child Labor:
  • As teens, Jared and other cult kids were sent every summer to Utah to build what would become the Best Friends facility: “We would work 10, sometimes 12 hour days… digging trenches for water supply lines… framing, dog poop scooping, cat run building…” (32:02–33:04).
  • Quote (David):
    • “You’re sort of saying… the early iterations of Best Friends was sort of partly built by child labor. Really?”
  • Quote (Jared):
    • “Oh yeah. Absolutely. It was absolutely child labor.” (33:49)

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6. Whitewashed History: Gaps and Gloss

• The modern Best Friends’ website references their founders only as a “scrappy group of friends”—glossing over 20 years of cult activity and child labor (34:07–37:27).
• The original leaders—specifically “Gabriel,” a pivotal cult member—remain at Best Friends and are presented as benign founders on the website, fueling questions about cultural continuity (41:26–41:47).
  • Quote (Jared, about Gabriel):
    • “When Gabriel walks in, there is an expectation that a hush should fall… He cultivates that… has worn earth colors… looks a lot like Jesus. There’s no question in my mind he’s trying to have that appearance.” (41:47)

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7. What Remains of the Cult? Lingering Culture and Leadership

• No overt religious practices now; however, the organization still harbors a quasi-religious reverence for animals (“Animals were held very much over humanity. Humanity was a disease who needed to do better.”) and a strict internal hierarchy (40:17–41:26).
• Secretive practices and lack of transparency persist—paralleling cult mechanisms:
  • Quote (Jared):
    • “Why are they so this way? Why can’t they be transparent about things? Why do I have to talk to certain people in this certain very respectful, almost worshipful way?” (41:26)

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8. Accountability and PR—Or Lack Thereof

• David’s attempts to get comment from Best Friends were stonewalled or dismissed. Their PR replied, “Most of the information you’re looking for can be found on the website. Feel free to dig around there.” and characterized the cult past as “ancient history… just that,” calling the child labor a “colorful origin story” (48:58–49:12).
  • Quote (David):
    • “It’s just a really interesting headspace they’re in.” (49:26)
  • The presence of a “crisis PR team” itself is telling of the ongoing need to manage bad press (50:01–50:24).

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9. Unique Rebranding: Can Good Come from a Cult?

• Unlike other infamous groups, Best Friends evolved into a net positive (as far as public-facing work), but the old guard remains powerful, and their influence in culture and structural hierarchy is impossible to ignore (50:30–54:06).
• Quote (David):
  • “…looking at this from the other way, I can’t think of another example where a cult has rebranded into something that is a net positive. Like, they are doing good stuff. But… some of those leaders are still gonna be getting. It’s that stuff that still feels a bit culty.” (51:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rob, on celebs supporting animal orgs:
  • “When you’re a celebrity, you’re kind of looking for the safest possible thing to support.” (06:33)
• On child labor and the cult’s hidden history:
  • “There’s nothing non true in their website history… It’s just that 20 years are erased, right? And a lot of stuff is glossed over. And the fact that 30 children were born in this thing and help build… are erased…” (Jared, 36:47)
• David, summarizing the episode’s shock value:
  • “This is one of the most batshit things I’ve ever heard.” (44:43)
• David, frustrated with Best Friends’ evasive PR:
  • “‘Most of the information you’re looking for can be found on the website…’ Utter bullshit… What you just heard in this podcast is not on their website.” (48:58)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:52: Opening banter; the surprise direction of the episode
• 05:24–07:23: American animal charities, celebrity involvement, and the phenomenon of the “no-kill” movement
• 14:18–15:55: The scale and fundraising prowess of Best Friends Animal Society
• 17:00–19:45: Interview introduction and background – The Process Church cult origins
• 30:00–34:07: Jared details neglect, abuse, and massive child labor at the Utah site
• 37:27–41:47: Ongoing cult culture and the mythologizing of the founders inside Best Friends
• 44:43–48:14: David and Rob’s analytic “debrief”; PR stonewalling, and children’s role in building Best Friends
• 50:24–54:06: Speculation on why the organization remains silent, the impossibility of accountability with cult leadership still in power

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Tone & Style

• David maintains his signature blend of deadpan Kiwi wit, unflappable curiosity, and non-judgmental but deeply skeptical reporting.
• The tone is thoughtful, alternately amused and horrified, retaining empathy for both animals and the humans caught in the cult’s legacy.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode uncovers the wild, largely untold origin story of America’s most famous animal sanctuary—a story of British cultists, child labor, buried trauma, and a modern charity still led by its original cult hierarchy. While Best Friends does considerable good, this exposé challenges listeners to question the ethics of whitewashed histories and the lingering influence of charismatic, unaccountable founders.

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Additional Listener Prompts

• If you have experiences with Best Friends, David encourages you to email the show at [e-mail].
• Key lingering questions: How does the animal rescue world attract cultish energy? Should current good deeds ever excuse a buried, abusive past? Why is transparency still so hard for “reformed” organizations?

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Transcript

[David Farrier]

Dave, Dave. Dave. Hi, Hayden. My little New Year Snugglebug. What? You never say anything like that to me in real life. It's just a show that you put on for the podcast. You'll be glad to know that I found a website called 100 Cute Pet Nicknames to call your girlfriend or fiance New Year. Snugglebug was in there. I added the New Year. Just riffing a little bit. Okay. Do you want to hear some of the other names I've got coming up for you? No, no. I'd like it to be a surprise. Okay. This episode is actually going out on January 6th. A big day for America. I'm just wondering how you're feeling about this year ahead for Flightless Bird. Well, that's not the direction I thought you were going to go in there. I mean, you're running out of stuff. Let's face it. How many differences could there be between two anglosphere countries with sort of broadly similar cultural references? You're going to be doing some weird, like the Americans stamp their feet slightly louder going up the stairs soon. So I feel like you're pretty much fucked. That's what I'd say about Flightless Bird. But you do seem to be branching out into music and stuff. It's going out on January 6th. Do you want to ask me about, like the insurrection and the lapse into fascism in your country or is this just. Just you just want to look inside on this auspicious day? I'm a bit scared on this particular day to sort of look outward because it's just too scary, you know? Yeah, you look outward, it could be someone climbing the wall. I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. And yes, welcome to 2026. Hayden said flightless Spirit is running out of ideas, which is categorically false. Hayden talks a lot of shit. I'm used to it by now. One thing he did say though, isn't completely off the wall, and that's that our stories here will get weird at times. And today's episode is a very good example of that because what if I told you that America's biggest animal rescue organization, endorsed by the likes of Mark Wahlberg, acclaimed actor, actually began as a full blown cult that worshiped four deities, including Lucifer and Satan, who, if you're wondering, are not the same thing. They're different. And what if I told you that cult members are still working at America's biggest animal rescue organization? Well, all of Those things are true. And the rescue brings in around $100 million a year. And it's called the Best Friends Animal Society. So get ready to decide if you want to rescue a load of animals or pay your respects to Satan, because this is the Best Friends episode. Please don't sue us. Flagless flightless, Flightless birds Hunts down in America. I'm a flightless bird Touchdown in America.

[Rob]

When I first saw we were doing this episode, I thought you were just doing an episode on us.

[David Farrier]

Feel good episode. The launch of the new season. I'm sorry, Rob. That's such a letdown. You are a good friend. There is that as well.

[Rob]

Just not the best.

[David Farrier]

Okay, Okay. I want to do a disclaimer right at the top. We are recording this on December 16th.

[Rob]

Oh, why are you doing that?

[David Farrier]

I'm doing. We gotta be honest. Because who knows when this goes out, so much chaos could have happened. Listeners will be going, why aren't they talking about X, Y, and Z? So, look, just breaking the illusion briefly, if you want to know what is currently happening. Rob and I have been doing updates over on Patreon with me and all that kind of thing. So, like, live is on Patreon. But don't despair. You're listening on January 6th. As I sit here recording with Rob, I just hope that I trust everyone as well. We're all standing. Yeah.

[Rob]

A couple weeks is a long time in America, as you've learned.

[David Farrier]

It's a really long time.

[Rob]

Next week, we will be recording this in the new year.

[David Farrier]

Yes. So and we'll be sort of up to date with the time. Anyway.

[Rob]

We're doing this one a little early because of the holidays and not having to rush our team back to work.

[David Farrier]

People deserve a break.

[Rob]

Yes.

[David Farrier]

If they can. But, yeah. Welcome to 2026, figuratively and metaphorically. Did you know about Best Friends as an organization before I sort of raised this idea with you?

[Rob]

No, I still don't.

[David Farrier]

Okay, great.

[Rob]

Even after that intro, I remember.

[David Farrier]

What the hell is going on? Yeah, I mean, we'll get into the doc pretty quickly because I think that lays everything out. So this episode is based on reporting I did on Webworm last year. And I published this in December, and then. No, maybe November. And then the Smithsonian wrote this really big piece about best friends. And our friend Shyan took photos of at the animal sanctuary. And so I was texting back and forth with him after the fact about this thing. And the Smithsonian story also talks about some of the cult aspects, but they.

[Rob]

Were added to the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian as animal charity.

[David Farrier]

No. Yeah, they. So the Smithsonian has an online magazine, and they basically wrote this giant feature about best friends promoting them as an animal. Yeah, yeah. And they mention aspects of what we're getting into here, but it's a very. It's the best PR Best friends could have possibly hoped for.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And it's just interesting seeing the different angles people can take on things.

[Rob]

Well, so it's a current organization that just has bad roots.

[David Farrier]

It's got some bad root. It's got some questionable roots.

[Rob]

Questionable roots.

[David Farrier]

Good bits. Okay. The cult wasn't all bad, but it got pretty toxic.

[Rob]

Why didn't they just change the name when they made the pivot? Or it was too established.

[David Farrier]

Okay, so before we get into best friends, specifically, in your mind, what role do animal shelters play here? Because in New Zealand, we have the SPCA who basically look after animals. They run a lot of shelters. If someone is mistreating a pet, the SPCA will turn up and knock on your door and be like, why is your horse malnourished? Why are you keeping a thousand cats in this tiny home? What's the scope like in America?

[Rob]

I mean, I feel like it's something that a lot of people. Celebrities will take on being, like, spokespeople.

[David Farrier]

You're right. Mark Wahlberg.

[Rob]

Mark Wahlberg. Or like, I think it's Price is Right, where always ends with, like, spade and neuter your pets.

[David Farrier]

Right.

[Rob]

Or you've got the, like, infamous Sarah McLachlan.

[David Farrier]

Because the thing is, when you're a celebrity, you're kind of looking for the safest possible thing to support. Right. Like a celebrity going out and saying support. This Fund for Palestine is very different to a celebrity going out. We support this cancer research. Yeah.

[Rob]

And. Well, and a lot of it's, like, animal cruelty and then, like, kill shelters. And I think it was a big thing in Chicago around the music scene, too. Like when veganism was starting, like PETA becoming a thing where, like, I had so many friends that they're rescuing dogs when they are adopting them. And it's. They're fostering these dogs. Right.

[David Farrier]

So that was, like, part of, I'm guessing, like, sort of punk, emo sort of scene.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Straight edgy, kind of like crowds.

[Rob]

I know some people that had rescue pit bulls that, like, were from fighting rings or just pit bulls in the best. Tied to a stump. Like, my. My good friend Mikey had two pit bulls. One named Jeffrey Dahmer.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, great name.

[Rob]

And the other big girl.

[David Farrier]

Really good. Big girl's a great name. Yeah.

[Rob]

Big girl. Let me play that. Sarah McLaughlin.

[David Farrier]

Okay. Off. What a song though. It's so every stereotype.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Okay, I get the idea. Oh God. Will you be an angel for a helpless animal? Every day innocent animals are abused, beaten and neglected and they're crying out for help. Okay. Incredible.

[Rob]

Yeah. So that you've never seen that commercial?

[David Farrier]

No. Never made it to New Zealand. There's certain bits of culture that just never made it across. Like it's such a specific ad.

[Rob]

Well, to be fair, that's for British Columbia, so not technically America.

[David Farrier]

Okay.

[Rob]

But like I don't even know what that organization was, but I know that song and that video huge. From just it being the played on TV.

[David Farrier]

This is like 90s 2000s. I mean, what an ad. I mean it had everything. I mean it had such sad looking puppy eyes looking up at you. How could you not give to them?

[Rob]

Yeah. Apparently it raised in a single year, $30 million.

[David Farrier]

Incredible.

[Rob]

For the organization.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. That's insane amounts of money. Yeah. I mean it's funny. Like I'm. I'm an animal person. I love animals so much. I'm also deeply cynical and I can't help but look at a commercial like that with every bit of cynicism and go. They have perfectly fine tuned this to get the most amount of money possible. I mean they, it's like Coney, you.

[Rob]

Know, they amplified that. Dog whimpering.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Yeah. There's also that thing that I think is interesting in the space where this idea of whether you're raising money for humans or animals and it's. I understand there's this thing where it's. So there's this idea that. Which is, I think completely false, that like humans don't necessarily deserve money because they've made that decision to be in that place. Whereas animals are these innocent creatures that humans have completely messed up. And so do you know what I mean? There's this idea that it's almost the perfect funnel. We must give money there as opposed to kids in poverty or unhoused people or cancer cuts through. Because I think humans go, that's like that. No one deserves that.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

But you know what I mean? That sort of mentality of like animals are the perfect thing to front for because they're so helpless.

[Jared Garrett]

Helpless.

[Rob]

Yeah. Well, there's also that whole thing with like tying a specific person to the charity when you're like helping a kid across the world that is impoverished completely. That. Yeah. That needs money.

[David Farrier]

Well, that was World Vision's biggest kind of win was this idea that you are Sponsoring your money that you see in specific basically goes to this one child.

[Rob]

Yeah. That one to one. One to one empathy works. But once it's. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Which is all fabricated. Like it's all like there's so much bullshit involved in that world.

[Rob]

But once it's a big group, people just. It seems unattainable to help and too big.

[David Farrier]

It's like that thing where you get compassion fatigue, where you go, how can I even begin to help with that famine? Because what. How can this, you know, $10 I'm sending and do anything.

[Rob]

But I think when you're like helping an animal shelter or donating to that it feels much more one to one of like I'm gonna help that three legged whimpering dog completely.

[David Farrier]

It just cuts through and save this.

[Rob]

This thing.

[David Farrier]

There's also you. You raise no kill. Because that's something I've been wrapping my head around as well. So best friends whole thing. And to be clear, best friends does really amazing work. It's just. It has also got a very toxic, unusual culture in there as well that I think people are unaware of. But their whole thing is we're a no kill shelter. So really lofty goals to be. They wanted to be completely no kill by the end of last year. They didn't. 2025.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

They didn't reach. I've just projected myself into the future again.

[Rob]

David. It's not the end of 2025 as we said.

[David Farrier]

This is true. Basically. They. By the end of 2025 they had set this goal to be completely no kill. They haven't reached that goal. But there is all sorts of controversies within that because they are putting insane pressure on other shelters to do the same thing. And kind of like if they' then they're not as good as best friends are.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And then there's also the thing where it creates certain pressure to get animals out the door as quickly as possible. And that creates certain nuances whether, you know, are they going to the right home? Can those animals be returned if that home isn't right for them?

[Rob]

Right. Or are they going to be neglected in this new place and not put.

[David Farrier]

Yes.

[Rob]

In a safe place.

[David Farrier]

There's another thing. And I'm going to cop flack for this, but I strongly believe that and I'm an animal person. Animal people are. They do have. Especially when you get into the rescue scene, there is a certain level of derangement in that world. And I've got friends like you have friends that shelter animals. And I've spoken to them and they all speak of a big element of that world kind of brushing up against, and I'm speaking in broad strokes here, but brushing up against almost hoarding, where once you get into that world of rescuing animals, there's a certain level of hoarding, there's a certain level of drama. And we start to look at the politics of these different rescue organizations and how they think about each other. It gets so fucking feral so quickly here in America. It gets really mad.

[Rob]

It's just like competitive, competitive.

[David Farrier]

And no, we're doing it the right way. We have the right way of rescuing and rehoming animals. And this is the way money should be used. And once you get to the level of Best Friends, who is bringing in like $100 million in fundraising a year? Yeah, there's certain, like, I mean, we get into this in the doc, but there is a certain like cult think within those worlds that get really crazy. Yeah, especially we have a lot of money being going to the top of those organizations. Yes, it gets, yeah, the world gets crazy. Animal rescuers are in a whole other level of intensity.

[Rob]

Oh, let's find out.

[David Farrier]

Okay.

[Jared Garrett]

Hey, I'm Mark Wahlberg. Best Friends Animal Society is working to.

[Rob]

Make sure that every dog and cat in America has the chance to find.

[Jared Garrett]

A loving home of their very own. Visit bestfriends.org today and find an adoptable pet near you.

[David Farrier]

That's what's up. Good job. That's actor Mark Wahlberg doing a commercial for the Best Friends Animal Society. Best Friends is one of the biggest animal rescue organizations in the United States. It's a nonprofit, 501C3, with offices in places like Atlanta, Arkansas, Houston and New York. Its headquarters are in Utah, where Nat Geo made a documentary series about it called Dogtown.

[Jared Garrett]

At Dogtown's medical clinic, vet tech Jeff Popowich prepares for a new arrival.

[David Farrier]

Best Friends partners with shelters in all 50 US states and is a master at fundraising, bringing in over $100 million each year. Nat Geo TV shows and endorsements by celebrities help with that. They promote themselves as a no kill animal rescue and are big on pet adoption. They actually have an adoption centre in Los Angeles not too far from me, so I dropped in. Best Friends has been around for about 40 years. We are a 501C3, so we do get donations. We're very lucky that people see our mission and agree with what it is that we're doing and they want to help. So we've been building our donor base and really our supporters nationwide. Our biggest facility is in Kanab, Utah. So that's our sanctuary. They have roughly 1500 animals. Big. Yes. And they range from cats, dogs, parrots, pigs, horses to other animals. Yes, they have everything there. And it's an incredible 30,000 acre sanctuary. They do adoptions out there as well, but they also have animals who may be there for life. And so they have huge spaces and it's a lot more relaxing and quiet there. And this is where I come clean, because I'm not interested in Best Friends due to its size and influence. I'm interested in its backstory and how it came to be. Their website has this to say. Back in 1984, a scrappy group of friends from far corners of the globe settled in a remote area of Utah's high desert and took the first steps in forever changing the future for pets and shelters. And while that is technically true, it's also annoyingly vague. I wanted to know more about those so called scrappy group of friends that made up Best Friends, because I'd heard that the details of Best Friends origin story is a lot, well, weirder, which is how I came to speak to Jared, who was there from the very beginning. Well, more accurately from the middle.

[Jared Garrett]

I am Jared Garrett and I was born in Chicago in 74.

[David Farrier]

The reason I'm talking to Jared is that he has a story, a really good one. His parents were both members of the Process Church of the Final Judgment, a cult formed in the UK in 1966. It was called the Process for short. The cult wormed its way into the United States in the late 60s and early 70s, recruiting Americans all across the country who were partially wooed by the British accent and the cult's teachings and ideas.

[Jared Garrett]

They felt, and this was pretty common, I guess, in the 60s, that the family unit was fairly obsolete and could be disrupted and deconstructed and people could just could, could have a perfectly good productive life without it. And so that informed the way I grew up.

[David Farrier]

Members of the Process lived a fairly nomadic life in America. They set up their main chapter in Chicago in 1972. That included Jared's parents.

[Jared Garrett]

My mother had been an early American recruit and my father had been a more recent American recruit from, from Boston. So their union was, how do they say it was, blessed and ordained by the main leader of the Foundation. And so they, they got together and had me.

[David Farrier]

In short, Jared was born into a culture. And so while his parents were officially called Catherine and Bruce, the Process had other ideas.

[Jared Garrett]

She was called Catherine, Catherine Eaton, and she took a name Seraphine actually, for a while and then wound up as Magdalene. My dad, he's Bruce, Bruce Garrett, but I knew him as Enoch the whole time I was growing up.

[David Farrier]

So Jared's parents, Magdalene and Enoch, had bought into the ideas of the Process, a cult that had been founded in the 60s by British occultist Robert de Grimston and his wife, Mary Ann McLean. If you want to understand the vibe of the Process, I guess it's also important to know that Mary Ann and her husband Robert were both ex Scientologists.

[Jared Garrett]

What I understand is back in Sometime in the 60s, I think the early ish 60s, there was a chapter of Scientology at Oxford, England, and the two kind of main people in that were a man named Robert de Grimston and a woman named Marianne McLean. And they were married, pretty sure, and they had several people they worked with in the Scientology practice and they found that they. What they wanted to do was different from what the chapter of Scientology really.

[David Farrier]

Wanted them to do.

[Jared Garrett]

So they just decided to step out, do their own thing. And he wrote a lot of interesting, very out there stuff on who God was and Jesus, Jehovah, Lucifer, Satan, all these things that I never could wrap my brain around.

[David Farrier]

The Process Church of the Final Judgment, believed there were four separate deities, Jehovah, Lucifer, Satan and Christ. And you could pick which one you wanted to follow. Summing up that idea was one of their original hymns, which was simply called Christ and Satan Joined in Unity. The cult was big on the end of the world and they stood out wherever they went, from San Francisco to Mexico. They wore a lot of black and their cloaks were lined with crimson. They also wore these big iron crosses around their necks and liked to keep big dogs as pets, mainly German shepherds. Rumours spread that they were involved in ritualistic murder, and by the time the Manson murders happened, prosecutors alleged there were links between Manson and the Process. These rumours weren't helped by the fact Manson himself told the main prosecutor that he and Robert de Grimston were one in the same. Journalist Maury Tully would go on to call them one of the most dangerous satanic cults in America. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Grow Therapy now the new year. If you missed the memo we're currently in brings advice from every corner, your feed, your group chat, even your barista. The barista always likes to chip in. The hairdresser as well. Everyone thinks they're a therapist, but here's the thing, advice isn't therapy. Grow Therapy connects you to licensed professionals who actually get you.

[Rob]

There's a million reasons people start therapy. A breakup, a burnout, a new job, a new year. Whatever your reason, there's one place to start. So Whether it's your first time in therapy or you're 15th like you, David, Grow makes it easy to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around.

[David Farrier]

You can also search by what matters like your insurance, specialty, identity or availability and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can Cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost. There are no subscriptions, no long term commitments. Thank goodness you just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time.

[Rob]

Yeah. What's the latest thing you discuss with your therapist?

[David Farrier]

David, you really put me on the spot. Well, I have like quite an OCD issue when I get really stressed, always checking the taps. So figuring out what is going on there and making me become less stressed with stress, that is my big takeaway.

[Rob]

Well, whatever challenges you're facing, like David's tap issue, Growth Therapy is here to help. Sessions average about 21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on your plan.

[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

Coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[Jared Garrett]

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[David Farrier]

Anyway, time went on and Maryanne and Robert split up. Thanks to Robert having an affair with someone much younger, Mary took over the process, choosing to focus less on Satan and more on Jesus. And by the time 1980 came around when Jared was about 6 years old, the cult had been renamed the Foundation Faith of God, or simply the Foundation.

[Jared Garrett]

The Foundation Faith of God capped or topped out at about 150 or so members at its height. When I was 15, 14, I asked one of the adults who I at least felt like he wouldn't get angry at me for asking, said, hey, what is it we believe? And so at 14, not even knowing, having to ask somebody was kind of weird. And he said, well, we're kind of a non denominational Christian sect and we were told we were Coached to say we're just a youth group, but yeah, we are a non denominational Christian sect. And that was it. Their beliefs seemed to be the world is broken. This is the only place you're going to find any real meaningful purpose is in the foundation. Else is just going to continue to be broken and have no hope for anything. We need to do everything we can to please. The leader at the time was a guy named Gabriel.

[David Farrier]

Gabriel was the leader because he had hooked up with Maryanne, the cult's original founder.

[Jared Garrett]

And everything is focused on pleasing them, pleasing the other leaders of the branches or chapters as they call them and doing your best not to rock the boat for us kids. It was a really fuzzy belief system that I couldn't quite understand. We did mostly Christian seeming celebration type prayer gathering, ritual things that also involved candles and incense. So it felt like there was some, maybe, maybe some Catholic or Anglican influence on it. But then there was prayers to the earth mother and other things. So that felt a little pagan and plenty of other things too. There were some Asian stuff thrown in as well. So it's like kind of a mutt religion that maybe they didn't even care what, what they, I mean they didn't really care to have a central dog mart or stuff. They were just like trying to raise money to support their animal ambitions, their animal rescue ambitions.

[David Farrier]

He threw that line in there so casually. Animal ambitions. And I wondered what he meant by that. Exactly.

[Jared Garrett]

From a very early on they always had animals. There was, there was, they were the group with the German shepherds, the huge German shepherds that people were scared of from a very early time. You know, they would, they would travel around. When they went to Mexico, still Mexico, they had, they had their German shepherds with them. As far as my memory goes, they were always rescuing and rehabilitating animals, trying to find them new homes, trying to get them placed and sometimes not, sometimes they just keep, keep them. I, by my count, I probably watched 20 animals die like literally in front of me just because they, they had been helped as much as possible and they got to have a more peaceful, more comfortable death in that group. So that seems to be their focus for a lot of my aware teenage years. Yeah, again, everywhere I lived there was always animal rescue happening. But the whole putting them above humans, I don't know, it may be because they don't have a family or didn't really have family is a priority.

[David Farrier]

I thought back to what he had said earlier.

[Jared Garrett]

They felt, and this was pretty common I guess in the 60s that the family unit was fairly obsolete and could be disrupted and deconstructed.

[David Farrier]

It all kind of tracked. Okay, so to sum up the Cliff Notes, Jared was born into a cult called the Process Church of the Final Judgment. That was an offshoot of Scientology that had tenuous links to Charles Manson. When Jared was six, it got renamed to the Foundation Faith of God, which was more focused on God than Satan, but was still very much a cult.

[Jared Garrett]

For a bit until I was about.

[David Farrier]

Let'S see.

[Jared Garrett]

10, nine or 10. There were chapters kind of spanning the west and Midwest. So there was Dallas and Denver, Las Vegas, and then there was the headquarters in Arizona, which later moved to southern Utah.

[David Farrier]

And keeping with that core belief that the family unit wasn't all that important, the cult didn't really care to keep families together. Reading one of the cult's original texts, you can kind of see where their heads were still at. Marriages are an abomination. Every single one of them consists of a war between a man and a woman, with women striving to possess the man and enmesh him in the trivia of domestic boredom and frustration.

[Jared Garrett]

The kids were kind of just spread out. But then starting when I was around 9 or 10, they started being sent, all of them, to the Dallas branch because they decided to call that the children's center. And they started a school that was run entirely by the foundation for only kids in the foundation, called the called Faith School. And so we grew up very commune. Like, everybody lived in the same house or houses, unless we outgrew that house, and then we'd have to get another one. For six years of my life, I lived in the same house in Dallas itself with all the boys, which were about 13 or 14 of us, and one or two caretakers. But there was no. For me and for, I think, the majority of the young people, relationship with, like, parents. We. I knew who my mother was. I actually had to find out who my father was when I was nine.

[David Farrier]

Yes. Another side note, Jared had no idea that Enoch was his dad until he was about nine years old. Again, family stuff not a big priority.

[Jared Garrett]

I'd been told that this British fellow who my mother was married to sometime before was my dad. He was not. I looked like this other guy. Like, I really look like this other guy. And people were starting to point it out. We think you're probably the Enoch's son. Like, you're probably right. This was weirdly common. You know, this. They were very cagey about weird untruths. Like, they would just hide these things, which was to me, it's still very strange and I've wrapped my brain around a lot of things, but that's one I just, I still don't understand. But maybe it's to, you know, to continue to disrupt the family relationships. But that, that's what it was. It was kind of unstable. We're not sure what's coming. We don't know where we're going to live. Sometimes we move abruptly. Sometimes we don't have relationships with adults that are very trusting in any real way. I never really trusted any of those guys as I was growing up because they could kind of quickly turn a temper tantrum into some sort of verbal, emotional and for me, every so often physically abusive situation. So I tried to avoid contact with them as much as I could.

[David Farrier]

He used the term physically abusive, which I get him to expand on. Was there any sort of emotional or sort of physical abuse? Was there anything entering that territory?

[Jared Garrett]

There is plenty of trauma there. I will lead off by saying we can heal from anything that comes our way. Our life can become beautiful from ashes. Right. But yeah, there was. I mean you don't do well with instability psychologists. Child psychologists can say with certainty that kids need stability. They need affection, they need love expressed, they need unconditional love, they need safe places. I and most of the other kids didn't have anything even resembling that. So just that that neglect and abuse can be a trauma. And it was bad. And then there was physical abuse. I got the ever loving crap beaten out of me one time by a guy who utterly lost his temper. And there was plenty of physical, you know, smack you on the head, come on, don't do that. And other stuff. But that was relatively harmless probably. I don't know. But getting beaten up and then all that instability. And then there was also a lot of verbal and emotional abuse from specific people who had power over both adults and kids. I would not recommend it. And there were kids who had it worse off than me. There were kids who had it better than me. But there were a couple of kids who really were targeted by some things and preyed on by some other folks who were really had no business being around kids. And there were some things that were done that felt like. And looking back, you know, with some understanding of human psychology that were absolutely attempts at brainwashing.

[David Farrier]

Around the time he became a teenager 13, the cult had really doubled down on the whole animal thing and chose a new headquarters in Utah. You can probably see where this is going.

[Jared Garrett]

At some point they bought a ranch in southern Utah near Kanab Utah, because they had outgrown the ranch in Arizona and they wanted to have that be their overall organization headquarters, plus a very expandable animal rescue organization. And starting in, I think it was 86 or 87. It's probably 87. I was one of the kids who got shipped out every summer to help build it. I did a lot of plumbing, I did a lot of pipeline, a ton of dog poop scooping, which I really don't like.

[David Farrier]

How old were you and what were you getting paid? Paid?

[Jared Garrett]

Nothing. No paid. I was 13 the first time I went out. They didn't, they didn't, we didn't get paid. They just, we were just. There was like 20 of us kids who were old enough to do this or 15 of us kids. And so they just drove us out from the Dallas branch all the way to, you know, near Kanab, Utah. And we would work 10 to about 10 hour days, maybe sometimes 12, digging trenches for water supply line, helping putting toilets, doing sheetrock roofing, framing, dog poop, scooping, cat run, building, all kinds of work.

[David Farrier]

In case my foreshadowing hasn't been strong enough or maybe you were doing something else. While listening to this episode and drifted off, Jared and the other kids were helping build what would become Best Friends, America's largest animal rescue group. This perhaps offers a bit more context to what's listed on the Best Friends website. Back in 84, a scrappy group of friends from far corners of the globe settled in a remote area of Utah's high desert and took the first steps to forever changing the future for pets and shelters. Not to be sort of overly sensationalist about this, but you're sort of saying that sort of the early iterations of Best Friends was sort of partly built by child labor. Really? Yes.

[Jared Garrett]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there were. When we kids were there for those two months in the summer, we didn't outnumber the adults, but we, we, there was a good number of us and we got a lot of work done. We built, we dug miles of trenches. And yes, it was absolutely child labor. Absolutely.

[David Farrier]

Jared says he later discovered that while all this was going on, Magdalene, his mother had been a kind of servant to Marianne, the ex Scientologist who'd kicked this whole thing off.

[Jared Garrett]

By that time, my mother had, let's see, by that time, she, she was basically the handmaiden of the woman, Mary Ann, who was still the leader of Best Friends Foundation.

[David Farrier]

Other former cult members have described Mary Ann as a terrifyingly powerful woman. And that's who Jared's mother served. And just for some clarity with just so I'm not lost in translation, when you say handmaiden, what do you mean by that term with your mother?

[Jared Garrett]

She was like the way you would expect a leader of a religion that isn't really a very good religion to have servants who would just absolutely see to every detail of their lives. That was my mother's job for Marianne. She was utterly devoted to Marianne. My mother had been helping Marianne her for most of her life at Best Friends. But yeah, she was her handmaiden. It's the correct term. My father had married another woman from, from, from the group. So he married this other lady and they had a kid a couple years later who's my little sister when I was 11. And they were stationed at Best Friends when it soon after it opened, they ended their charter as a religious organization in 95 and recharted as a full on 501.

[David Farrier]

So by 1995, Best Friends was officially no longer a cult religion. It was a charity. And to make it really clear, because I feel like all this is kind of confusing, what started in England as the Process Church of the Final Judgment had morphed into the Process in America, which had then morphed into what we have today, the Best Friends animal sanctuary. Jared is no longer a part of the cult or what it turned into. He says not all his memories are bad ones, but that bad stuff happened there. His exit had some twists and turns, but essentially, essentially his biological father Enoch left and Jared went to live with him. He got to attend his one senior year of school.

[Jared Garrett]

The freedom. Absolutely the freedom. I cannot describe the sense of relief and the newness of the world. The day I arrived in Kanab. I have a strong memory of standing on their very small postage stamp sized front yard and looking around and saying, I'm out, I'm free, I'm out. And seeing this just the world laid in front of me, full of possibilities.

[David Farrier]

Sometimes he thinks about Best Friends still and the information they leave off the website.

[Jared Garrett]

There's nothing non true in their website history of who they are. It's just that 20 years are erased, right? And a lot of stuff is glossed over. And the fact that 30 children were born in this thing and help build version 1.10, whatever and are erased could be hurtful if I had that capacity to feel hurt about that anymore. I've been blessed with not really caring anymore. But yeah, it's really messed up that nobody really knows that.

[David Farrier]

It's strange to me that nobody really knows about this stuff. There are tours of their bustling sanctuary in Utah. Jared's been. As someone who literally helped build the place as a child, it's a surreal experience for him.

[Jared Garrett]

But there are signs. You know, there's a sign outside the Visitor Center. In 1984, a group of friends came together and did this. And for me, it's like I can see that this, this is technically true, but in 1984, that group of friends already was together. They just came together and decided that it's animal rescue as their main focus. But they were together for 20 years before that in a cult.

[David Farrier]

If I was to go on one of the bus tours around their main headquarters and maybe I got off the bus and sort of had a little run around the compound, sort of looking around, are there any clues to its cultish origins? Is there a big cave where they used to perform rituals? Is there a sort of a building that looks a bit like a church? Is there anything there that's sort of a sign of what was.

[Jared Garrett]

So it's. They don't talk about it and you don't go there on your tour. There's something called the Lake House. The tour takes you up what used to be a county road that was gravel and needed grading all the time. Up and around a beautiful vista. There's. There's kind of some rocky promontories and you go up and around and then you hang left and all your options are left to go into this big circular area of a ton of things. Except for way down near the highways where the dog town is, but well before the dogtown and around somewhere in the same general areas. When you go left to all the cats and everything else in the main living areas. If you were to go right on a road out there and follow a very long windy road, you'd get to what's called the Lake House. So back in 1980, 88 or 89, the leaders said, we're going to build a religious haven, a space of sacred peace for all members of the foundation to worship, to be at one and to be at peace. We're going to call it the Lake House. It's going to be huge and beautiful and we're going to use all of our skills. It's quite beautiful. It looks temple like you can get a view of it if you. If you have the right angle from kind of the county road, but it's kind of hard to because it's way back there. It was meant to be set back and set away and fairly secret. Yeah. So that was built and it's full of beautiful art, some of it crafted, some of it purchased for large amounts of money. And it was not used for any of that sacred religious practice. It became an absolute huge mansion residence for Gabriel and Marianne, the leaders. And that's where my mother spent the last of her last years of her life was cleaning that place and doting and caring for Marianne, who she was her handmaiden. But it's there. You're just not going to hear about it officially.

[David Farrier]

I wondered about where this leaves Best Friends today. To your knowledge, is there any element of the cult that lives on besides this kind of maybe love of animals? Is there any kind of religious aspects that live on within Best Friends?

[Jared Garrett]

I don't believe there's religious aspects beyond, you know, a very heartfelt belief that animals are the better part of creation and it's our job to take care of them. It feels quite religious in the prioritization of animals. And it was that way growing up. Animals were held very much over humanity. Humanity was a disease who needed to do better and take care of the animals and the earth better. So I think that there's still a religiosity around that priority, but there's also still some cult like hierarchical expectations in the leaders. That's what I've been contacted about by some former employees and even current employees, like, why are they so this way? Why won't they talk about things? Why do they seem to have a. What's with the chronic lying or hiding of things or playing things so close to the chest? Why can't they be transparent about things? And why do I have to talk to certain people in this certain very respectful, almost worshipful way?

[David Farrier]

He pauses for a moment to think of an example and Gabriel comes to mind. Gabriel's the one who got together with the original cult founder, Mary Ann. You can find a photo of him on the Best Friends website under a section called Founders. He's sitting between two rocks up in the mountains, a peaceful look on his face. There are two big dogs by his side.

[Jared Garrett]

When Gabriel walks in, there is an expectation that he will be, that a hush should fall, that a respectful hush should fall, and that he should be paid attention to. And he cultivates that. I mean, my whole life he has worn earth colors that remind you a lot of Jesus's robes and has had hair and beard that are absolutely to look like Jesus. There's no question in my mind that he's trying to have that appearance and look.

[David Farrier]

And I wonder if maybe when it comes to a Place like best friends. You can never fully take the cults out of the culture. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from mat sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Bombus. Now for this ad read. I have my niece with me. Hello. So people keep asking about my 2026 resolutions. Sure, I've got the usual goals. Read more. Hit the gym. Get that gym bod going. Learn how to crochet. But this year there's a new one at the top of my list. Get comfy. Get comfy all the time. And that's where Bombas comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to my everyday go tos.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

I do so many sports. And how good am I at sports?

[Jared Garrett]

Can you name a few? You do. Please.

[David Farrier]

I play. I play. Hey, let's move on.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

Oh no, we're not going to do that in this ad. They also have footwear. Nice. Do you want to read about the footwear here?

[Jared Garrett]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Jared Garrett]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

Hey Robert, I'm here. I'm here to take your questions on what little I've scratched off the surface of this quiet. I mean it's. I sometimes feel I don't. Even when I'm pitching a story to you, I don't sell it enough. Like this is one of the most batshit things I've Ever heard.

[Rob]

Yeah. No. It's crazy.

[David Farrier]

It's like. And to be clear, the cult stuff isn't. I haven't unearthed the cult aspect. If you go to Best Friends Wikipedia page, it will be there. What I think is new in this episode that hasn't been talked about is that. That children help build what would turn into Best friends.

[Rob]

Right. I mean, it would be like finding out Apple started as like the Rajnishi people. Completely the Rajnishi cult in.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. It's just like a sort of a slap to the face.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And I also think he was. He was incredibly balanced because he obviously didn't have the greatest childhood. He wasn't outwardly bashing best friends as much as he could have. Like, he kind of. He accepts the strange fact that Best Friends does some really good work, but he's just kind of like understandably a bit annoyed that this backstory is kind of just hidden away like that, you know?

[Rob]

Yeah. Which I mean, I guess it probably doesn't help their cause if it was known.

[David Farrier]

So one follow up. So when I reported on this for WebWyrm, I wrote to Best Friends to get comment on them. Cause there's also that aspect of they have a shit ton of money and you sort of had to be careful when reporting a story like this to make sure you get everything right and correct. And part of that process, if you're gonna make accusations about organization, is to give them the right of reply. Yeah. So I sent them an email because I did kind of want their perspective on this. I wrote to their main PR email address. I cc'd in the two people I'd met when I went for a tour, like. Like eight months ago. Yeah. And I just said like a list of things I'd found out. I said, can you confirm the existence of a building known as the Lake House? The building originally built as a kind of church for the cults. What's the current status of Gabrielle De Pier within Best Friends? He's the guy who married the original cult leader. She has now passed away. Gabriel is still at Best Friends, which is just. It's wild to me that even as a PR move, if you're going to rebrand, maybe shift one of the original cult members or someone who married the leader of the cult.

[Rob]

Just not part of the site, not.

[David Farrier]

Part of the infrastructure even. Like, what are they thinking? Like, just keep them off the website. Well, you make a clean cut.

[Rob]

That's the strange thing of like previous business ties or like previous dealings is one thing, but the like evolution from cult to this, but keep it seemingly keeping like a bunch of the structure of the cult into the business.

[David Farrier]

That's the thing that I think is sort of missed. And I talked about that Smithsonian piece earlier, and it kind of completely misses that problem. That. Sure. Like, it's one thing to have formed from something else, but if you're keeping those people in your ranks and they still have an effect in the organization, I think that's incredibly problematic.

[Rob]

Well. And if you're keeping the origin story of this as the child labor that helped build this.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. So that's the other thing I put to them. I said I had a few other questions. Are there any other original cult members still involved? I know for a fact there are. And then I said, I understand. The first stages of what would turn into Best Friends headquarters in Utah was built in part by children aged around 13 years of age. This included digging ditches and other groundwork. Does Best Friends have any comment on this? And then I finally said, is there any particular reason the backstory on the website is so incredibly vague week. And so I got an email back. They ignore me the first time. So I emailed them again and they said, hey, Dave, apologies for the late reply. Most of the information you're looking for can be found on the website. Feel free to dig around there. Utter bullshit. Yeah. Like what you just heard in this podcast is not on their website.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And then they said, as for the ancient history you're inquiring about, it's just that. Which is a pretty incredible thing to come back with when you've just raised child labor with them.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And then I said, we're not really interested in talking about what amounts to a colorful origin story, which again, in my mind is a wild response from their PR team. When, you know, I'm not just sort of riding in with like a wacky backstory.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

The level of. It's just a really interesting headspace therein.

[Rob]

Clearly not the first time they've been asked about it.

[David Farrier]

I will say I always like this when you get a response from a company that's kind of like telling you off. I will say that if you're going to move forward with this angle, be prepared to wear your journalistic integrity hat, so to speak, and make sure you research and verify your sources and their stories, which is fucking amazing on a number of levels because why the fuck am I emailing you? I'm emailing you to verify the sources and you're giving me shit for doing that.

[Rob]

And then also not verifying and no.

[David Farrier]

Coming back with absolutely nothing. Yeah. And that also came from a member of their crisis PR team, which I thought was kind of amazing that you have a crisis PR person working there in the first place. So I just thought it was super telling about the mentality that still exists in that place that that's what they come back with. I found that really fascinating.

[Rob]

Are they like pushing any of the. Like secretly pushing any of the things that the cult was about?

[David Farrier]

No. So from what I can tell, the original religious beliefs that they had had through their various iterations are not part of it anymore. What has stayed in there is the. From what I can tell is just the extreme differences in status of the leaders and the amount of power they have in the organization to kind of get you on board into that kind of cult thing. Which is interesting because looking at this from the other way, it's almost. I can't think of another example where a cult has rebranded into something that is. Is a net positive.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Like they are doing good stuff. But, you know, I think it's just the reverence that they treat people with. Certainly some of the income some of those leaders are still gonna be getting. It's that stuff that still feels a bit culty. But it's not like they're stripping off naked at their sanctuary and, you know, cutting each other with swords, you know, summoning Satan. They're not doing any of that stuff.

[Rob]

Was there any, like, clear reason for the pivot?

[David Farrier]

I think it's a few things. They annoyed some of their original members because their life wasn't getting any better, being in the cult. And so people were leaving at a certain point. I mean, when they started, it was the 60s. Right. So there's a bunch of different cults. I mean, I would have sort of loved to be around at that point when like you could walk through a campus and just have different cults recruiting.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So they kind of ran out of kind of the power to keep people staying just for their kind of religious culty beliefs. And then just the whole time, because they had this belief that families weren't all that important and who your parents were weren't that important. But we need to look after the animals. That was kind of this baked in thing that was always there.

[Rob]

It seems like such an odd angle for a cult, though.

[David Farrier]

They always had big Alsatians, so they'd be walking around in these big robes, big crosses or pentagrams around their ne and big dogs. It was like part of their selling point was, you remember when the Matrix came Out and everyone, everyone wanted to look like Neo in his big trench coat. It was kind of like that. It's like, who are those motherfuckers? Yeah, they look cool. And they did have a genuine belief that we need to look after the earth, we need to look after the animals. And so when it came to.

[Rob]

Which is not a bad belief, not.

[David Farrier]

A bad belief at all. And when I sort of looked into this originally, I was like, is this a cynical move where we're just going to rebrand? I don't think it was all that cynical. I think they just put all their effort into animals now. Change their name, drop the religion and there they are. Yeah.

[Rob]

But just no accountability for where they started from.

[David Farrier]

Again, I sort of. I'm so fascinated by that PR response. Because if they just replied saying something like we acknowledge that we are no longer a cult. We acknowledge that back when we were founded we did things that we now look back at and regret. This was really awful.

[Rob]

Or we're just like under different leadership, under different mission, like all sorts of ways to handle. This was a totally different entity at that time than it is now.

[David Farrier]

But I think that's the thing. I think they're kind of caught where they can't do that because they still have people like Gabriel, who was a cult member still there on their website. So they're kind of a little bit strapped. I imagine he holds a certain amount of power in that organization where he doesn't want that stuff to be openly spoken about and talked about by this org that he's still a part of.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So it's just. I find it so every aspect to it is just so deeply unusual and weird and I sort of can't believe it's a real thing.

[Rob]

You said there's a difference between Lucifer and Satan.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. You're not going to pull up Wikipedia?

[Rob]

No. I thought you knew.

[David Farrier]

You said it. No, no. Well, when I was writing my script I was like, aren't they the same thing? Aren't they just like God's adversary but in the Bible? They are different sort of entities. They reference in different ways. I feel like Satan is like top dog. Lucifer is another entity. Entirely different things. I had no idea that either.

[Rob]

I thought they were one of the same things, different guys. So what was the cults or woman. We don't know what was the cult's tied to Satan basically.

[David Farrier]

I mean I'm kind of into the concept. They just sort of of their understanding was like whatever you identify with you should follow. So I guess ad libbing here a bit. But Lucifer was like a rebel. He was an outsider. He maybe was a bit more liberally minded than Jesus. So we're going to follow this energy. So it wasn't like we're following Satan, we're going to sort of kill a thousand babies and sacrifice them. It was more just. Just like he's more rebellious. Let's follow that.

[Rob]

Yeah, it just seems like a wild pivot from Satan to then Jesus to then, oh, let's save some pets.

[David Farrier]

And they were doing a lot of drugs, I imagine at the time. It was like the 60s and 70s. They were definitely on something. And you look through some of their old. I mean, they create zines and they'd have artwork and it's all, you know, some of the artwork has a big giant satanic goat sitting on a big throne. And it's like the process church. So all the iconography they were just heavily on board with. And then when they did their first change into a different type of cult, they kind of suddenly dropped the Satan and Lucifer and sort of focused more on the traditional God stuff. So the way that they morphed and changed was sort of seemed like a bit of like a whim. I mean, he described it as a mutt religion. Yeah, I think it's kind of what it felt. They didn't know exactly what to hold on to and so they could just change it to sort of fit what they were feeling that week. Yeah. And I, for webworm, I spoke to Enoch as well, his dad. They now have a relationship and he confirmed everything that his son talked about madly. When I put on Blue sky in my original article. And his. Enoch's daughter responded being like, yeah, this is a thing I grew up in as well, which felt like a very small world.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Kind of scenario. I mean, I'm curious if, you know, it's a big organization. If any of our listeners have any more info or give to best friends or sort of have any takes on this. Maybe you didn't know any of it, but you've always given them money. I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are hearing this flightless bridge chat gmail.com.

[Rob]

What makes them different from a regular.

[David Farrier]

The other big one? I mean, they, they. So they work with all the smaller shelters. So they're this big overarching or overarching organization that works with all the other little ones. Their main point of difference is we are hardcore no kill. Like this is what we all need to do. If you're, if you're a shelter and you're not no kill. Then you're acting unethically. And you must change and you must be like us and you must work with us because we're the biggest and the best. And we've got Mark Wahlberg and you don't. Yeah.

[Rob]

Which though, I mean, Mark Wahlberg, isn't he like a pretty hardcore Christian?

[David Farrier]

He. Yeah. I mean, he, he shills for a Catholic app. Yeah. Where you download the app to help you pray to God, you know, and he's also got a pretty dicey history. I mean, he was involved as a, as a younger man in a bunch of, of, you know, racially motivated hate crimes. Yeah. You know, so he's, he's. Mark Warburg isn't great. Yeah. And yet I, I think America, and maybe humans in general, very short attention span where Mark Warburg can do something horrible. Best friends can have this origin story, but we don't know it. We're just sort of happy to look at their latest project and go, oh yeah, you seem to be good and fine and let's not critique you.

[Rob]

Right. Yeah. I guess my, my question or point was like the fact that he is also coming from this religious background.

[David Farrier]

Oh, right. Yeah.

[Rob]

And are there religious ties still to this organization or it's just more likely that a religious person is going to be the one donating.

[David Farrier]

And it's a really good question. Like I wonder if a lot of them are, say, Christians or if they're atheists or if they're hippies or if.

[Rob]

It'S just a full spectrum of different religions and it transcends them. That.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Or do a lot of them still sway in that direction?

[David Farrier]

Email us in flightthespread chat gmail.com if you know, because I'm. Yeah, I'd be curious about that as well. Who friggin knew. Tiny bit of feedback from parasocial listener as that comes in just quickly, a couple of ones. My name is Tommy. I'm 31, from Dallas, Georgia. Been listening to flightless birds since the beginning. Flightless bread has become a weekly ritual for me on my Tuesday commute. I've never written. It's a very cold. Like I've never written him before. But I wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed the interview in past social listener. It was great hearing Nick's story and the way he's handling a situation with such grace and bravery is very inspirational and gives me some perspective on my own life and how I handle things. I would love to hear occasional updates on how he's doing, especially that he's opted for a clinical trial instead of surgery this time around. Thanks for all you guys do. So, yeah, thanks for writing in, Tommy. And the aim is to provide an update on Nick's trip to New Zealand. And I kind of just want to get his take on what he thinks of my weird little country. And Kalu Kelly from our Patreon said, what a beautiful episode. Needed to listen to something lovely this week, and Nick's perspective was that bit of loveliness. Nick, if you're reading, I'm sending you healing vibes from across the country and really hope the clinical trial is a part of. Is a positive experience for you. Been doing so much podcasting, I feel like my voice is running out. It's getting croaky.

[Rob]

Do you hear now? So you always sound.

[David Farrier]

Do I always sound like this? Yeah. Oh, my God. I can feel. I can feel it. Any other notes, Rob?

[Rob]

No.

[David Farrier]

2026. I hope it's gonna be. It's gonna be a year filled with God knows what. What? It's going to be good bits. There's going to be bad bits, there's going to be stressful bits, funny bits, and we'll get all those bits and smush them into podcast episodes for you, whoever is listening right now, if you want to support the show. We're on Patreon. Patreon.com Flightless Bird. We're on Instagram.

[Rob]

Instagram. Flightless Bird pod.

[David Farrier]

We're on YouTube.

[Rob]

Lightless bird pod.

[David Farrier]

And we are an email if you have any thoughts or feelings, emotions. Flightless bird. Chatmail.com like and subscribe.

[Rob]

Yeah. And here's a little preview of this week's bonus episode on Patreon.

[David Farrier]

Chirp, chirp. Thank you for being here. Thanks for being on Patreon. It's really fun to see you guys taking part in the chat threads and all that. One of those is called Q and A, where delightful questions roll in.

[Rob]

What can Bravid tell us about his girlfriend?

[David Farrier]

Wow, that is a very parasocial question, isn't it? Can we get more episodes with Calvin? He's such a smart kid and I love listening. I think this is really interesting and I want to know how you think about this.

[Rob]

David, would you ever consider going on Taskmaster if invited? Please tell me you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, Taskmaster has no idea what you're talking about.

[David Farrier]

I've been invited on our version of, like, Treasure island and a few other reality shows. Traders.

[Rob]

Traders.

[David Farrier]

I got asked on that.

[Rob]

Oh, you got asked to do Traders, David?

[David Farrier]

Oh, when did you really earn the nickname Brad? One thing you can say about me. Incredibly brave.

[Rob]

I'm gonna pull up. Just a reminder. I messaged Rosabelle.

[David Farrier]

You're such a feast of shit. That's not allowed.

[Rob]

What do your Christmases look like? How do they differ from Christmas growing up?

[David Farrier]

I think that's a good question for you as, like, an All American boy.

[Rob]

All American Boy.

[David Farrier]

Keep the questions coming in. These are fun sessions. I love jumping into Patreon and just, like, flicking through what people are saying. It's just a very. It's a really good buzz in there, and it makes me very happy. Sa.