Goosebumps

Summary

Flightless Bird – “Goosebumps” (March 31, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this nostalgia-driven episode, New Zealand journalist and host David Farrier, with cohost Rob, explores the enduring appeal and cultural impact of the iconic Goosebumps book series by R.L. Stine. Through interviews, personal anecdotes, and a deep dive into book cover artistry, the hosts reflect on what makes Goosebumps uniquely American—and universally memorable. The episode’s highlight is David’s conversation with the man himself, R.L. Stine, who shares origin stories, writing habits, and his ongoing passion for spooking generations of kids.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Legacy of Goosebumps: Childhood Gateway to Reading

• Personal Memories & Covers
  • Both David and Rob reminisce about Goosebumps as a formative reading experience, emphasizing the lasting impression of its vividly illustrated covers.
  • [01:05–02:39]: David credits Goosebumps for making reading truly fun.
    • Quote: “The books did very little as far as education went. But that was kind of the point. They were pure entertainment, and I credit them for making me understand that reading could be really, really fun.” — David, [01:05]
• Nostalgia and the Scholastic Book Fair
  • David and Rob recall the excitement of chasing new Goosebumps titles at school book fairs.
    • Quote: “Goosebumps were the books I would look for and they would jump out… I just remember visceral excitement about a book, which is kind of an incredible thing.” — David, [09:48]
• The Art of Goosebumps
  • Iconic covers designed by Tim Jacobus are celebrated; the saturated colors and memorable monsters are “core memories.”
    • Quote: “He did all of them except for one… it was the use of overly saturated colors that won him the job. Fit with the now notable 60s B-movie style title font.” — David, [12:10]

R.L. Stine Interview: Humor, Horror, and Serendipity

• Origins as a Humor Writer
  • R.L. Stine started as “Jovial Bob Stine,” writing joke books and running a children’s humor magazine, Bananas, for a decade.
    • Quote: “I never planned to be scary... I don’t really get scared by it, but I always liked horror and I think horror is funny.” — R.L. Stine, [15:47]
  • His move to horror was unplanned—a request from an editor at Scholastic led to his first horror book, Blind Date.
• Accidental Success
  • Stine’s literary shift: “I was at that point in my career where you don’t say no to anything. You just say yes to everything.” — [16:36]
• Persistence Pays Off
  • Goosebumps exploded after decades of unnoticed work, with Stine publishing his first foray into the series at age 49.
    • Quote: “I was already old when Goosebumps came out. I was 49 when we started Goosebumps. I was already old.” — R.L. Stine, [29:44]
• Advice to Aspiring Creatives
  • “Don’t make plans, just say yes to everything. You don't know where you're going to end up.” — R.L. Stine, [18:14]

What Makes Goosebumps Endure?

• Universal Childhood Fears
  • Stine maintains: “Kids haven’t changed. They’re the same. The fears haven’t changed at all... Afraid of the dark, afraid of something hiding in your closet or under your bed, afraid to go down in the basement.” — R.L. Stine, [21:42]
  • Modern tweaks: Cell phones complicate writing kid horror.
    • Quote: “Cell phones ruin every story. Your kid has a cell phone, they pick up their phone, they call for help, and then you're—” — R.L. Stine, [22:54]
• No Lessons, Just Motivation
  • “I don’t try to teach anything except... if there’s something scary, you should run. That’s it.” — R.L. Stine, [21:30]

Process, Productivity, and Joy in Writing

• Still a Writing Machine at 82
  • “I'm a machine. It's factory work. I've never been this busy... I write maybe six days a week, for like three or four hours a day. But I enjoy it. I'm weird. I like it.” — R.L. Stine, [26:26]
• Adult Thrillers, Too
  • Stine is branching out again, finishing an adult book for the first time in four months:
    • Quote: “Writing for adults is the exact opposite of what I do for kids... When I write a Goosebumps book, the most important thing is that the kids have to know it's not real. But in an adult book, it's the opposite. Everything has to be real.” — R.L. Stine, [27:39]

The Author as Cultural Icon

• Generational Impact
  • Fans now get tattoos of him; his audience spans grandkids to adults.
    • Quote: “There are people walking... have my face tattooed on their legs. Now, how are you supposed to react to that?” — R.L. Stine, [23:27]
• When Will He Quit?
  • “Here’s when I quit: Somebody comes up to the table and they say, ‘My grandmother loves your books.’ That’s when I’m done.” — R.L. Stine, [24:20]

Surreal Moments & Personal Connections

• David’s “Tickled” Documentary in Goosebumps
  • R.L. Stine referenced David’s documentary Tickled in a Goosebumps book.
    • Quote: “Your book... you make a reference in there to a movie about competitive tickling... I made a movie called Tickled, which I think this book is referencing.” — David, [35:59]
    • Stine: “Yeah, you're definitely referenced. Now you're going to sue me, right?” — [36:28]
    • David: “No, it’s the biggest compliment I could possibly—” — [36:40]

The Power of Late-Blooming Success

• Never Too Old
  • Encouraging takeaways on accomplishment in midlife:
    • Quote: “I think there's this idea almost if you haven't... done your big thing by 30, there's this idea that, like, you're kind of done... but all sorts of shit can happen.” — David, [37:21]
    • “I'm an inspiration to old people, right? Is that what you’re gonna say?” — R.L. Stine, [30:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Goosebumps could have been written when I was a kid back in the 50s. What's changed is the technology.” — R.L. Stine, [21:55]
• “He just loves doing it and kept doing it and happened to meet that person that's like, ‘write this book.’ He did it and it worked.” — David, [37:46]
• “I love that the under the bed thing sticks. That, like, original one: there might be something under there. Check under your bed.” — David, [43:15]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:05] – David describes Goosebumps’ impact on his love for reading.
• [09:48] – Scholastic Book Fair memories, the excitement of Goosebumps.
• [12:10] – Cover art deep dive: Tim Jacobus and the lasting legacy of Goosebumps covers.
• [14:22–30:32] – Extended interview with R.L. Stine on his career, process, and advice.
• [21:30] – R.L. Stine on what Goosebumps teaches (“Run from scary things!”)
• [23:27] – Tattoos and multi-generational fandom.
• [26:26] – Stine on his relentless writing schedule.
• [27:39] – Writing for adults vs. children.
• [29:44] – Stine on getting his break at age 49.
• [35:59] – David confronts Stine about the “Tickled” reference in a Goosebumps book.
• [37:21] – Discussion on late-blooming creative success.
• [43:15] – The persistence of childhood fears (“under the bed”).

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Tone and Style

• Playful and self-deprecating: David and Rob keep the tone light, often poking fun at themselves and marveling at their own youthful fears.
• Warm & Nostalgic: The episode celebrates shared pop culture moments and the timelessness of childhood anxiety.
• Accessible & Encouraging: Stine’s advice and career story are explicitly framed as motivation for listeners of all ages.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode of Flightless Bird is a love letter to Goosebumps—its covers, its irreverent entertainment-first approach, and its role as an unlikely reading gateway for millions. The episode’s centerpiece is a generous, revealing interview with R.L. Stine, who emerges as witty, humble, and delightfully uncontrived. Stine shares the unpredictable luck and creative openness that made Goosebumps possible, counsels against overplanning life, and exemplifies creative longevity. For every grown-up kid who ever felt that surge of anticipation at the book fair, or who still checks under the bed at night, this episode is a funny, touching, and gently spooky reassurance that the right kind of stories never get old—and you’re never too old to tell them.

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If You Only Have a Few Minutes, Listen To:

• [14:22–30:32] — R.L. Stine interview on origins, process, and accidental success, including advice not to overplan life.
• [21:30] — Stine outlines what the books teach (and don’t teach) and how fears remain the same.
• [35:59] — David’s surreal realization that Stine referenced his own documentary in Goosebumps canon.

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For feedback, horror stories, or cannibalism anecdotes (yes, really), listeners are invited to email [e-mail] or join the Patreon for bonus content.

Transcript

[Rosabelle]

Hi, David.

[David Ferrier]

Hi, Rosabelle. How are you doing?

[Rosabelle]

Look, I'm so sorry, but I made a promise I'd pick up and then I didn't.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, we've been having look for those people lucky enough to be listening to this podcast for a long time. They'll know that recently we've had some communication difficulties because you put your phone in do not disturb mode 24 7.

[Rosabelle]

But in the past when you've called me, it comes through, and now it doesn't even. Like it wasn't even coming up for me to answer the phone call.

[David Ferrier]

I think it's the Apple update.

[Rosabelle]

If anyone out there can help, please save our friendship.

[David Ferrier]

Now, to lead into the big question about this week's episode, I'd sort of like to bring listeners up to speed that don't know you are a bit of a literary bookworm. Is that a fair idea assessment?

[Rosabelle]

I'd say a little bit, but I don't read that much. I'm nervous.

[David Ferrier]

You certainly have a lot of books on your shelf that I've seen.

[Rosabelle]

That's just for show. That's just to try and convince people that I can read.

[David Ferrier]

Today's episode is about the hit series in America, Goosebumps.

[Rosabelle]

I love that. I love Goosebumps. Is it so going so.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, it's still going. It's still going strong. Did you read them growing up?

[Rosabelle]

Yeah. Goosebumps. They were like these horror teenage high school books. I love Sweet Valley High. Like all those big American series. Big hit for me.

[David Ferrier]

Did you. Is there any particular Goosebumps book that stood out to you that you recall now?

[Rosabelle]

Yeah, I don't know why this is the one that's standing out to me, because I know it wasn't my favorite one, but it had a really good cover. Say cheese and Die. And I think it was about a camera that would kill people.

[David Ferrier]

I'm David Ferrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country ticket. Now, I think most of us have a book that we remember that really got us excited about reading. For some, it might have been Harry Potter, maybe if you're a bit older. It was Lord of the Rings. For me and probably millions of other kids, it was R.L. stein's Goosebumps books. I have so many of those book covers etched into my brain, bright and vibrant and also scary and unsettling and funny. Books like Night of the Living Dummy, Monster Blood, and Night in Terror Castle and the Haunted Mask. The books did very little as far as education Went. But that was kind of the point. They were pure entertain, and I credit them for making me understand that reading could be really, really fun. So prepare to be chased, possessed, haunted, and freaked out with nostalgia, because this is the Goosebumps episode.

[R.L. Stine]

Flightless, flightless,

[David Ferrier]

flightless bird Touchdown in America.

[Rob]

I'mma fly this bird.

[David Ferrier]

Hey, Rob.

[Rob]

Hello.

[David Ferrier]

Do you read? Can you read?

[Rob]

I can read.

[David Ferrier]

You can read? Who taught you how to read? School, Mom?

[Rob]

Probably a combination of both my school and mother.

[David Ferrier]

Do you think your kids is reading a bigger part of their life as it was when you were a kid? Cause kids have so much more stuff they can use to fill their brains now.

[Rob]

Yes.

[David Ferrier]

Everyone's panic that we're losing the ability.

[Rob]

No. Natalie's a big bookworm.

[David Ferrier]

Are you sure that's book say? Yeah.

[Rob]

Calvin's gotten, like, really into reading and he's, like, writing. He's writing horror stories now. He's working on one right now.

[David Ferrier]

What is the. Like, what's the process? Is it like pictures and notes and

[Rob]

pictures and it's him and, like, two of his friends from school all kind of collaborate on it. So they have, like, one friend that likes to draw and then him and his other friend that like to write the stories.

[David Ferrier]

This is incredible.

[Rob]

They've got two. Two that they just finished this week

[David Ferrier]

that they're working on the idea of the plot or kind of the mechanics of what this thing's about.

[Rob]

Not yet. He.

[R.L. Stine]

He.

[Rob]

He wants to borrow my computer to type it up.

[David Ferrier]

This is really cute. Is that. Is he going to actually type it up or is it a ploy to get Dad's computer and to, like, go on the Internet?

[Rob]

He's going to. I think he wants to type it up. He's. Yeah. It's not a ploy to get on the Internet.

[David Ferrier]

This is so good.

[Rob]

It's just. I'm not sure his typing.

[David Ferrier]

This could be his way for it to improve, to get that typing up to speed. Yeah, allegedly, R.L. stein types just with his index fingers, which is insane.

[Rob]

Yes. Do we have any housekeeping? Before we get too deep into Goosebumps,

[David Ferrier]

I have a request for people. I was thinking, I would like our listeners. This is optional. You don't have to do this. But I would like you to find an episode of Flightless Bird that you like with. Say you listen on Apple, you listen on Spotify, YouTube, find it using Google or the search thing within the app. Find the episode and copy the URL. The Universal Resource Locator. Is that what it stands for?

[Rob]

I don't know, I think it does sounds right.

[David Ferrier]

And share it on your medium of choice because I keep forgetting to sort of. It's so helpful because if you're listening, a lot of people aren't listening. And if you share it with your friends, whether you've got ten or a hundred or a thousand, it's just such a handy way to spread the show around.

[Rob]

Yeah. Well, I feel like maybe curate a topic for a friend, because that's a good idea because different episodes are for different people.

[David Ferrier]

I would say Nickelodeon is for a different person to Spaceman Barry.

[Rob]

Correct.

[David Ferrier]

For example. Vastly different.

[Rob]

Scientology.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, I like this. But, you know, I know it's funny. I'm trying to do that more with my friends podcasts because I will listen to my friends podcasts and love them. I will completely forget anything about mine. Yeah.

[Rob]

All my other podcasts.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. Let's not get specific about it, but for instance, I feel like I've been listening to one for, like, 10 years now. The film cast. I forget to tell people about it all the time. And that's like, the best thing I could do for that show is to spread the word. Anyway, I've rambled on about this too much.

[Rob]

Well, right now, too, we are in Texas.

[David Ferrier]

We are. And not to be trippy, but like, right now, as you record it, we're not. But when it gets trippy, when this airs, when this is in your ears, unless it's leaked somehow and someone's torrents the episode illegally, we will be in

[Rob]

Texas currently, and we will be having a show in Austin this Thursday. You should be able to buy tickets at the door if you haven't gotten them yet, if you want to show up.

[David Ferrier]

Austin's gonna be fun.

[Rob]

It's a good lineup.

[David Ferrier]

And Dallas after that.

[Rob]

Yes, Dallas is on Saturday the 2nd.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah.

[R.L. Stine]

Holy shit.

[Rob]

I'm very excited about music in both of these places. I've got.

[David Ferrier]

Oh, my God.

[Rob]

I've got a lot of Texas musician friends.

[David Ferrier]

One of the favorite things for me about these live shows is you organizing bands and musicians to play. And I get to turn up to soundcheck and just meet these people, and they're amazing. And. Yeah, and they. They do our theme song.

[Rob]

We've got full bands for. For both Texas shows, too.

[David Ferrier]

So that's the thing with you. I feel like you'll set a bar and then you'll always try and outdo the bar.

[Rob]

Yeah, we're gonna have an orchestra, woman. One of these days you're gonna show up and there's gonna be a 50 piece orchestra.

[David Ferrier]

Honestly, Rob, with you, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Rob]

I mean, that'd be a. That's a dream.

[David Ferrier]

But it feels like. Yeah, I think we both have the same idea about live shows. We don't want it just to be us two yapping on a stage. We want to give people their money's worth. And so music and guests and other elements come in. And some special. Oh, some special elements.

[Rob]

Some especially in these Texas ones. So you don't want to miss it if you're nearby.

[David Ferrier]

Okay, now, trippy now. We're now transporting ourselves back in time to this room. We're recording now. I'm freaking out. We're not in Texas right as we talk. We're in Los Angeles.

[Rob]

Yes, we are.

[David Ferrier]

It is March 22.

[Rob]

Currently, I'm doing dates. What's going on?

[David Ferrier]

Just in case I want to do the date, just in case something insane, more insane has taken part in the news and be like, why aren't they referring to this nuke that went off or something? You know, that's why. Because it's March 22nd. R.L. stine, speaking of horror, nukes, all the rest of it, do you have any kind of relationship with him as a kid? Were you into his stuff?

[Rob]

Yeah, I have, like, vivid memories of, like, the library at my elementary school.

[R.L. Stine]

How.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

And like, going through the covers. Like, the. I feel like, for me, the most iconic thing about Goosebumps was the covers.

[David Ferrier]

I could not agree more. Like, they are etched into the brain.

[Rob]

I was looking it up for this episode and, I mean, you three of them have been mentioned already.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

The haunted mask, which you're wearing a T shirt of right now. That one I remember vividly. Night of the Living Dummy.

[David Ferrier]

Hell, yes.

[Rob]

That cover. The Scarecrow Walks at Midnight.

[David Ferrier]

Oh, that one. It's back in my mind now.

[Rob]

I'd forgotten Scarecrow. Yeah, they cheese and die. Which Rosabelle mentions her favorite about a

[David Ferrier]

camera that kills people. I believe the COVID was a bunch of skeletons, Right?

[Rob]

Yep.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

The curse of Camp Coldlake.

[David Ferrier]

Mmm.

[Rob]

And then this was a fun one. A night in Terror Tower.

[David Ferrier]

Oh, I remember that.

[Rob]

But my favorite part of it was there was a night pun in the title. It was a night with a night on the COVID But night as an

[David Ferrier]

evening, is this, like, was that, like, Patient Zero? Is that where it started? Why have you now ruined that cover for me? It's like, because it was scary. It was like the hooded guy. Right. Coming down the stairs.

[Rob]

It was a night.

[David Ferrier]

I hate that you have done that.

[Rob]

Now and then. Stay out of the Basement. Stay out of the Basement was another good one.

[David Ferrier]

We had a thing in New Zealand called the Scholastic Book Fair. You had that. Yeah, yeah. And I just remember. Oh, it was amazing. And I just remember Goosebumps were the books that I would look for and they would jump out and I just remember visceral excitement about a book, which is kind of an incredible thing because of all the things books you've seen as boring or dry. But those books got you excited in a way that was extraordinary.

[Rob]

Well, it was something with like the horror genre because I. We also had like an accelerated reading program we had to do in elementary school where we had to. Each book had like a level and then like points for it.

[David Ferrier]

I vaguely remember something.

[Rob]

And you had to take like a 10 to 15 question test at the end and you'd get points for it. And then you had a goal that you had set for your year or month or.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, just to get you into it.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah. But the horror ones, I remember sticking out quite a bit because there was another one. Did you ever read Bunnicula?

[David Ferrier]

No, but please. You just triggered another memory, though. But you go first.

[Rob]

Bunnicula was.

[David Ferrier]

That sounds sick.

[Rob]

About a bunny. A vampire bunny. They like find this bunny at a movie theater screening of Dracula and the bunny is a vampire.

[David Ferrier]

This is crazy. This is like an evil rabbit, but

[Rob]

it's like a pet bunny that like playing the pet, but then like at night they're finding like bite marks.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. Okay. This is good. It just. When you see it, you start doing animals. I also just remembered Animorphs. Animorphs, which was iconic.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

Again, all about the COVID I couldn't tell you about any of the stories, but the covers, of course, this amazing pre Photoshop. I don't know who designed them. I want to find out now, but obviously you got animal and human and the morphing from one to the other. The illustration of that, absolutely iconic. You got like a fucking fish turning into a man, you know. Really, really good.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

I was curious about the covers and so I did a little bit of light digging, AKA Googling. Tim Jacobus did the covers. He did all of them for Goosebumps. For Goosebumps. He did all of them except for one, which I think was the second one. Stay out of the basement.

[Rob]

Stay out of the basement.

[David Ferrier]

So basically, I think how it went is they, like Scholastic was trying to find who would do the art. They gave it came down to two artists. He did the first book, this other artist did the second book. Other artists didn't get the job, so he redid the second book as well. But he created all the covers except for the second. He said in an interview recently it was the use of overly saturated colors that won him the job. Fit with the now notable 60s B movie style title font. And his favorites to design, Slappy the dummy from Night of the Living Dummy. And the giant praying mantis, which I've forgotten about. Ah, I remember the prayer mantis. You remember that, you know, Right. It's like core memories. Yeah.

[Rob]

Just I haven't thought about it in 20 years.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. But it's crystal clear in your mind, right?

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

From Ashoka on Shock Street. And he just sounds like the loveliest man and he's just. He's responsible for all of that stuff. So. Yeah, I guess it's fair to say we're both big fans. Yes. And probably one of the most exciting things I've ever done for this particular show is I got to interview R.L. stein, which is something I never thought would happen in my entire life.

[Rob]

This man is a quirky old man that's still writing.

[David Ferrier]

He's a quir. You just summed him up. That's his bio. He's, I think, 82. He's still going.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

And I don't know, I find sometimes the idea of interviewing these people, I almost feel guilty because I'm like, you should be writing. Like, I'm taking your time when you're talking to me. You should be doing your thing.

[Rob]

The lore of R.L. stine, though, was just that he did it. Cause he loved writing there. Wasn't like he's still just pumping out books. He probably doesn't need to be writing books.

[David Ferrier]

Still, I'd say he's. I didn't ask him about his net worth, but I imagine he's worth a decent amount of money by now.

[R.L. Stine]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Do you think Goosebumps is like the highest after Harry Potter?

[David Ferrier]

He's the best. So this is my chat with R L Stine. There was almost an immediate panic when I started this Zoom interview when I realized I didn't know what to call R.L. stine. Like, what even was his first name? For decades, he's just been the full thing. R.L. stine. Thankfully, I noticed his name had come up on his zoom screen and that saved the day. Robert, how are you?

[R.L. Stine]

I'm good. I'm hanging in. How are you doing?

[David Ferrier]

I was doing good. Good. Because I was about to interview my literary hero. Now 82 years old, I'm curious for you as a kid, what got you into storytelling? Whether it was reading or. Or other types of storytelling, I don't know.

[R.L. Stine]

I was a comic book freak when I was a kid. People always ask me, what were your favorite children's books? I didn't read books. I only read comic books. My friends and I, we carried around big stacks of comics. We would trade them and we would read them under the tree in my front yard. I grew up in Columbus, Ohio, and when I was a kid, there were these scary comic books, Tales from the Crypt and the Vault of Horror. I just loved them. They were just bloody, gruesome comics, but they all had funny twist endings. So you see, these were very influential on me.

[David Ferrier]

When he started writing, decades before Goosebumps was ever even a thing, he was writing stuff that was funny under the name Jovial Bob Stein. And when you started writing, you were. You lent into the humor like you weren't a horror guy initially. I'm wondering where that transition took place.

[R.L. Stine]

I can tell you exactly where it took place, but it's sort of an embarrassing story. You know, I never planned to be scary. Yeah, I always. I liked horror. I mean, I think horror is funny. I don't really get scared by it, but I always liked horror and. But I never planned to write it. I was a jovial Bob Stein. I was a joke book writer. I wrote maybe 40 joke books for kids. And I did a humor magazine for 10 years called Bananas, which I edited and wrote most of. I just planned to be funny. And then one day I was having lunch with a woman named Jean Fiwell, who was editorial director at Scholastic, and she had just had a fight with a teen horror writer. Who shall Renee remain nameless? Christopher Pike. And she came to lunch, right? And she said, I'm never working with him again. You could write a good teen horror novel, go home, write a book called Blind Date. She gave me the title. I didn't know what a teen horror novel was. I had no idea. But I was at that point in my career where you don't say no to anything. You just say yes to everything. And I went running to the bookstore to find out what a teen horror novel was, and I bought books by Christopher pike and Lois Duncan and Diane Ho and all these Richie Tankers, Lee Cusick, all these people who were writing teen horror so I could find out what it was. And then I wrote this book. It came out. It was a number one bestseller.

[David Ferrier]

I just wanted to interject and say, I remember Blind Date. Well, I read that after I'd gotten into goosebumps, it was a little bit scarier.

[R.L. Stine]

Number one on the Publisher's Weekly. I couldn't. What. The funny stuff never made it anywhere near. And then a year later, I wrote another thriller for her called Twisted. Number one bestseller. And I thought, forget the funny stuff. I've been scary ever since. That's exactly how it happened. But it's embarrassing because it was an accident. Wasn't my idea.

[David Ferrier]

I think some of the best things in life are unplanned and accidental and so I can fully get behind that.

[R.L. Stine]

Yeah, I always tell kids that don't make plans, just say yes to everything. You don't know where you're going to end up. I came to New York after college to write humorous novels for adults. That was my ambition. And of course, nobody wants humorous novels for adults. Nobody buy. Right. Nobody buys humorous. No, adults buy humorous novels. And that was my ambition. I had never planned to write for kids. And then I needed a job. I was in New York. I needed work, answered an ad for Scholastic magazines, ended up at Scholastic and ended up writing for kids. I always tell people, don't. I was at this meeting of 300 top high school students and a kid got up. These were the top. Very nervous, nervous kids. They were top high school students. And the kid said, well, after I graduate, I'm going to start my own company. And then after five years, I'm going to sell it. I'm going to go public. Then I'll sell my company. And I thought, oh, is this kid in trouble? I said, you're in trouble. You can't. Don't make plans. You never know where you're going to end up.

[David Ferrier]

You mentioned Christopher pike earlier. And I remember when I was a kid, your name shouldn't have. Let's leave that out of it. Yeah, but, you know, early. Early in your career, I imagine the landscape for children's books, young adult books, certainly horror, was in an entirely different place. You have somehow been this constant that has just continued to do what you do and continued to sell incredibly well whilst the landscape has changed around you. I'm wondering if you could talk to that at all or if you don't even notice what's happening around you and you just do what you do. You.

[R.L. Stine]

Well, I don't know if I could do anything else. I don't know. But no, I notice things are changing. I know what's, you know, what's going on in publishing and everything, but. And you know, everyone's so pessimistic. About publishing and about children's publishing. Everyone's so gloom and doom. Kids aren't reading. And this. When I started out in children's publishing, the children's division was two women in the back of the office. That was it. That was the children's department. And now it's like a $2 billion industry. Seriously. So someone is reading those books, right?

[David Ferrier]

They are, and they're certainly reading his stuff. And you've got new Goosebumps on the way as well, right?

[R.L. Stine]

Yeah. Goosebumps continues. 33 years of Goosebumps. That's why I look like this. I'm writing this stuff. 33 years, David. I tell you honest truth, when we started out, I said, let's do two or three of them.

[David Ferrier]

Goosebumps have now sold over 400 million copies around the planet, published in over 30 languages. Robert has a whole other series called Fear Street. 80 million copies sold. Not to mention the various TV show adaptations and films.

[R.L. Stine]

I don't try to teach anything except, you know, if there's something scary, you should run. That's it. That's the only thing you can learn,

[David Ferrier]

which is good life advice.

[R.L. Stine]

David. I don't have any hard vocabulary words. The sentences are all short. It's easy to read. It's all just reading. Motivation, really. I like kids. I have son. I have grandkids. I like kids a lot, and I'm very happy that way. Things have worked out with them. And people are always saying, well, kids have changed so much. Kids have changed. It must be hard for you. And kids haven't changed. They're the same. And it the in, especially with what I do, the fears haven't changed at all. Afraid of the dark? Afraid something's hiding in your closet or under your bed. Afraid to go down in the basement. Afraid, you know, afraid of getting lost. That. That never changes. Goosebumps could have been written when I was a kid back in the 50s. Really? You know what's changed? It's just the technology. That's what's changed. Cell phones. Cell phones ruin every story. They just. They ruin everything. Your kid has a cell phone, and they're in horrible trouble, and they're being chased by a monster. It's terrible. They pick up their phone, they call for help, and then your.

[David Ferrier]

NRL Stein has somehow struck upon this perfect formula, pure entertainment and the knowledge that kids will always be scared of the same stuff. So Goosebumps will always be a hit. I guess he's doing for kids what Stephen King does for adults.

[R.L. Stine]

People have tattoos of me on Their legs. There are people walking or. Don't laugh. There are people have my face tattooed on their legs. Now, how are you supposed to react to that?

[David Ferrier]

Hey, I mean, yeah, it's, it's incredible. It's, it's, it's a good face.

[R.L. Stine]

Oh, you're very kind. You need, obviously need new glasses, but you're very kind. I mean, I'm just back from a big teen book festival in Dallas last weekend. 15,000 teenagers. Can you picture that? It's the biggest book festival anywhere. And there now, of course, I also went. If I, I did a bookstore in Dallas and Now I get 30 year olds and 40 year olds. Well, I get people your age, you know, you're my son's age. And so I've got, I have like generations that I get to scare. Here's when I quit. That's what I said. This is when I'm done, right? Somebody comes up to the table and they say, my grandmother loves your books. That's when I'm done. That's the end of it.

[David Ferrier]

Look, you probably get a lot of annoying questions from journalists like myself. I'm curious when you get kids asking you questions, I'm curious what, what kind of stuff they're wanting to know from you.

[R.L. Stine]

Typically now I get horrible questions, questions I never got before. Are you going to retire? When are you going to retire? When you die, who will write your book? I did not used to get that question right. A letter had said, when you die, can a family member take over for you? I hate this, hate this most of my mail. And the Questions are, Dear R.L. stein, our teacher is forcing us to write to an author and I chose you. Where do you get your ideas? This is the most asked and most horrible question that everyone at journalists ask it. Kids ask it, where do you know? I'm sure every author gets asked, where do you get your ideas? And it's the one question that's. You can't answer that. I always say, where do you. We all have idea. Where do you get your ideas? We all have ideas, right? They can't. Honestly can't be answered. You know, there are a lot of authors who say, well, I start with the question what if? And I ask myself, what if this. That's garbage. It's total garbage. It's not how you get an idea.

[David Ferrier]

As for his ideas, he keeps having them. He writes at least every other day. He can't help it. Do you write when the idea takes you or do you set aside a set number of hours each day?

[R.L. Stine]

I'M a machine. It's factory work. I. I know I work. I better look. I do. I'm still doing it. I've never been this busy. I'm old and I've never. I should be on a beach somewhere.

[David Ferrier]

You should.

[R.L. Stine]

I'm doing seven books a year, pretty much. And comic books. I'm writing comic books for adults now. And so I, you know, I. In this adult book, I really put in seven days a week. I really, really worked on it. I still. I write maybe six days a week, but, you know, for like three or four hours a day and. But I enjoy it. I'm weird. I like it. I love what I do. I, you know, I enjoy my writing and I don't really. Actually, you know, I just finished a. Today I just finished the first draft of a novel for adults. So I am doing something different. I just. Today, just this morning, I finished, you know, page 402.

[David Ferrier]

How.

[R.L. Stine]

Which is a new. Quite an experience for me to spend four months on one book.

[David Ferrier]

How was that? Was that. Was it good? Like stretching things out in that way?

[R.L. Stine]

It was a challenge. Let me say that it's a challenge. Writing for adults is the exact opposite of what I do for kids. When I write a Goosebumps book, the most important thing, as far as I'm concerned is that the kids have to know it's not real. It couldn't really happen. And if I establish that it's just a fantasy, then I can get pretty. Go pretty far with the scares. But in an adult book, it's the opposite. Everything has to be real. You have to believe everything that's happening or adults aren't going to buy your story. So it's a challenge. I'm happy to have it done. I mean, I have to go read it now, see what language it's in, right? I should go back and read it. But this is, you know, new. The book is called let's All Kill Rosalie.

[David Ferrier]

I'm guessing it's a horror.

[R.L. Stine]

Yeah, it's a thriller. Five people are trying to kill Rosalie.

[David Ferrier]

One thing I really liked about my conversation with him is that I got the feeling he's grateful for all of this. Like he gets how lucky he is his ego hasn't taken over.

[R.L. Stine]

When Goosebumps came out in 1992, there were three of them. They sat on the shelf for months. If it was today with the computers, the bookstores would have just yanked them away. They just sat there and then suddenly kids discovered them and told. Brought them into school. And kids all over the world Suddenly and suddenly we were selling 4 million books a month just out of nowhere. You can't predict that. I sat there, I'm amazed. I'd been writing 20 years, nobody noticed. And then suddenly there's this incredible thing. It's luck. It's all luck.

[David Ferrier]

I knew this fact already, but I hadn't really clocked it. He'd been writing for over 20 years before he hit it big. 20 years.

[R.L. Stine]

I was already old when Goosebumps came out. I was old. I was 49 when we started Goosebumps. I was already old.

[David Ferrier]

I love these stories of, you know, maybe it's just thinking about myself as well as a 43 year old. You kind of think in your, your 40s you're kind of sort of done what you're always going to do. But then I come across stories like yours and people even like Ricky Gervais who didn't have the office and get fame till he was in his 40s as well. I think it's a really neat thing to remember.

[R.L. Stine]

I'm an inspiration to old people, right? Is that what you're gonna say?

[David Ferrier]

I was not, I was not gonna phrase it in that way. Good. Yeah. I so appreciate your time. I almost used to guilty talking to you because I feel like it's time you could be writing more books. I'm curious what you're.

[Rob]

Give me a break.

[R.L. Stine]

I just finished one that sure Let me take 10 minutes off. Come on, Dave.

[David Ferrier]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Wild Alaskan. Now, one of the things I'm not particularly confident about buying in the supermarket is fish. I'm just, I don't know a lot about fish. I love eating fish. I love cooking fish. I'm just not an expert at buying fish.

[Rob]

Yeah, I agree. That's one of the things I struggle with buying. I like eating fish, but mostly at restaurants because they know what they're doing better than I do completely.

[David Ferrier]

And I think, I feel like probably a lot of our listeners are in the same boat. I know a lot of my friends are. And that's where. Oh God, you're the worst. That's where Wild Alaskan company comes in. It's the best way to get wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. Trust me, you haven't tasted fish this good until you've tried Wild Alaskan company.

[Rob]

Yeah. So if you're in our boat, I'm

[David Ferrier]

gonna roll with it. That's Cool.

[Rob]

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[David Ferrier]

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[Rob]

You just got sent a big box of this I saw. What did you get and cook Giant.

[David Ferrier]

I took it to my friend's house around the corner and we made fish tacos and they were friggin delicious. So so good. Kids love them, we love them. It was a good night.

[Rob]

My favorite thing about them is that they're wild caught from Alaska. Every order supports sustainable harvesting pract and your membership delivers flexible shipments, expert tips and truly feel good seafood.

[David Ferrier]

Also, the whole thing is very risk free. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan company will give you a full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood to your door.

[Rob]

Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust by going to wildalaskin.combird for 35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood.

[David Ferrier]

That's wildalaskan.com bird for 35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Grow Therapy now, if you're like me, you've got a long list of tasks you need to get through and they can take a really long time to achieve. If one of those things on your list is start therapy, I know that can be a really hard thing to do. And that is where growth therapy comes in. As covered by 100 plus insurances and care can start in as little as two days.

[Rob]

Yeah, trying to find a therapist shouldn't feel like online dating with a high deductible and grow therapy gets that. They make finding the dream therapist who gets you way easier and faster. So whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th grow makes it easy to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, and they'll connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the US offering both virtual and in person sessions if you prefer those nights and weekends. So they'll work with you to make that happen. And you can search by what matters to you, whether it's your insurance plan, the specialty of the therapist, identity or availability. And get started in as little as two days as I said before. And if something comes up, you can Cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost to you.

[Rob]

Yeah, prioritizing your mental health is very important and therapy is a great way to start that.

[David Ferrier]

So whatever challenges you're facing, Growth Therapy is here to help help grow accepts over 100 insurance plans. Sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan.

[Rob]

So visit GrowTherapy.com bird today to get started.

[David Ferrier]

That's GrowTherapy.com bird GrowTherapy.com bird availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[R.L. Stine]

This episode is brought to you by Fandango.

[David Ferrier]

People say fans are too distracted these days, but the truth is, when a great movie hits the screen, you show up. You stay glued, invested, part of the story. And without fans like you, there'd be no cinema magic, no shared moments. So head to fandango.com to get tickets, stream or rent or buy top movies and series. Fandango loves fans.

[Rob]

Protein is now at Starbucks and it's

[David Ferrier]

never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha.

[Rob]

Try it today at Starbucks. I hate to do this to you, but you forgot a very important question.

[David Ferrier]

What?

[Rob]

You didn't ask him about the tickled reference in the book.

[David Ferrier]

Okay, so this is an insight into my psyche. I did. I did talk to him about it and then I went to put it into what you just heard. Yeah, I got self conscious. I'm like, I brought it up on a previous episode. I'm talking about myself too much. But then I've got. We're on a podcast. I'm always talking about myself.

[Rob]

Yeah, I mean, and that was the whole point of you talking to him was because you wanted to ask him.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, you're right.

[Rob]

So I wanted to confirm that.

[David Ferrier]

No, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but your book that I have here, you may recognize.

[R.L. Stine]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

The COVID You make a reference in there to a. A movie about competitive tickling that a character watches on Netflix. I made a movie called Tickles, which I think this book is referencing. So just purely out of a self

[R.L. Stine]

interested way, you did, you made that film.

[David Ferrier]

I made tickled and yeah, 10 years ago. And it's somehow tickling in it. There was a lot of tickling in it.

[R.L. Stine]

Yeah, you're definitely reverence. Now you're going to sue me, right?

[David Ferrier]

No, it's the biggest compliment I could possibly.

[R.L. Stine]

Oh, great.

[David Ferrier]

Blew my mind. So, yeah, there it was.

[Rob]

So.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. As far as. Yeah, I mean, imagine. Yeah. My favorite author from when I was a kid ends up referencing this weird doc I made in his Goosebumps book. Like there's so many. Like, just the fact he's still writing is surreal. And he could do that this far on.

[Rob]

Well, that's. It was.

[David Ferrier]

I can't.

[Rob]

The fact that he wrote his first one at 49 is also kind of mind blowing.

[David Ferrier]

I had no idea until he brought that up.

[Rob]

Such a long career of writing these. Such a prolific career of writing these of, like, hundreds and hundreds of books.

[David Ferrier]

It's also. It's that thing of. I think there's this idea almost if you haven't. I don't know, I feel like if you haven't, like, done your big thing by 30, there's this idea that, like, you're kind of done.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

At least that's how I kind of see.

[Rob]

I definitely feel that, like, I've peaked.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

And that, like, I'm not gonna do anything better than I've done or not.

[David Ferrier]

You've done all this. You've worked your butt off. You've done all this cool shit.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

It's like, what else is gonna happen? And no, it's like, you've got. You're not just gonna rot away. All sorts of shit can happen. And I think it's like, when you think of him, it's just really encouraging to remember that and the fact he didn't stop writing. He wasn't like, he just loves doing it and kept doing it and happened to meet that person that's like, write this book. He did it and it worked.

[Rob]

The most impressive thing is just the fact that he enjoys doing it and is doing it just for the love of writing books.

[David Ferrier]

It's the perfect balance as well, of, you've got something you love and it is an income, and it makes you probably pretty lucrative. That's insane. My God. And, yeah, it's the same with. I think Ricky Gervais currently is a massive asshole, but I think, like, the Office is one of my favorite comedies. British Office. And to think that he did that when he was in his 40s. Before that, he would. He'd tried being a musician. He had a radio show, which was cool. But he didn't create this thing that made him this guy that would go on to host the Oscars and have films and other TV shows until he was in his 40s. It's encouraging. It's encouraging for old people like me.

[Rob]

There was another thing I remember hearing about R.L. stine was that he had a water park that he built at his house for his children.

[David Ferrier]

You told me about this a while ago, and I kicked myself because I forgot to Bring it up with him. Explain.

[Rob]

I just. That's it.

[David Ferrier]

He has a water park.

[Rob]

Apparently he built a water park in his backyard. Really good for his kids.

[David Ferrier]

That's the best.

[Rob]

Which two like also putting together the facts that he was in his 50s then when he had all the success. So he built that in his 50s. Probably couldn't. I mean, I guess he probably.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, no, but he's not like into extreme sports.

[Rob]

But he could do a little something. Like a 35 year old dad completely decides to build in his backyard.

[David Ferrier]

It's freaking amazing.

[Rob]

Makes him a. A pretty cool dad.

[David Ferrier]

He also, if you're watching this on YouTube or on Spotify, you'll see what he looks like. But he does look kind of what you'd expect. He's like this lovely old man, you know, like very cheeky smile, great little sparkly eyes. He's just very, very lovable. He's everything I want him to be, to be honest. Maybe if we ever do, if we're still doing this podcast in like a decade, we can do a part two when he'll be 92 and we'll go to his water park.

[Rob]

Yeah. Can you get us an invite?

[David Ferrier]

I'll try and get us an invite there and we can all like slide down.

[Rob]

Well, I hope it's like pile haunted now.

[David Ferrier]

Oh, it has to be haunted and

[Rob]

like falling apart and cover of a book. Surely they've also, they've made movies as well. Jack Black has started two movies in the Goosebumps. Calvin's gotten into the movies.

[David Ferrier]

Of course he has.

[Rob]

He. Not the books. He had a phase of nightmares. So I think giving him those probably

[David Ferrier]

isn't the thing to do.

[Rob]

I've been reluctant to, but last time

[David Ferrier]

I was back in New Zealand, I went to a secondhand bookstore and they had all of the original run pretty much there for sale of like a dollar each. I bought them all, gave them to my nieces. One niece in particular has just powered through and it's.

[R.L. Stine]

Right.

[David Ferrier]

It's like what he said. The same fears persist.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

What's under the bed, what's in the dark, all that stuff.

[Rob]

Well, I like the like nostalgic time capsule of it too. Of like this was a time before phones and. Yeah, it feels just like a pure time that all these stories are taking place. And like he said that if, if, if those were to take place today, it's just. Okay, I'm gonna pull up my cell phone and solve this right away.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, Google it.

[Rob]

I'm gonna record this on my phone and Prove that. This. It's Scooby Doo esque, too.

[David Ferrier]

With, like, no, it's, like, timeless and, like, pure somehow. Wait, when you were a kid, did you have fears as a kid? Like, what was your main thing?

[Rob]

I watched it when I was very young.

[David Ferrier]

The Tim Curry one. Like, big smiley face.

[Rob]

The clown.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. Jesus.

[Rob]

So, like, I didn't. I didn't love the bathtub drain at 1. And, like, the sink drain.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. Drains in general. Bad.

[Rob]

Freaked me out. And then there was. I think it was from. Are you afraid of the dark? Like, the under the bed stuff didn't love when it was dark and I'd, like, jump into bed.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. I wonder. The under the bed fear is such a. Like, I'm curious, like, where that core idea comes from. Is every kid reading a book or seeing an image of something in there, or is it just the idea of where you sleep? You've got a gap and something in your primordial mind goes. There could be a creature under there. Like, where does that come from?

[Rob]

I still don't love it.

[David Ferrier]

No. Yeah. No, I'm the same. I'm identical.

[Rob]

My bed frame at home does not have an under the bed. It is like.

[David Ferrier]

And that is something you have absolutely bought on purpose.

[Rob]

I don't know how subconsciously, probably, I'm thrilled that I don't have an under the bed in that. It's just. No, that stuff's just solid box, mattress and frame.

[David Ferrier]

I used to be, until my early mid-20s, used to still be, like, afraid of the dark. I didn't like being in the dark. That just eventually, just stopped. And I don't know why it stopped, but I guess I just grew out of it. Eventually. You developed the dark spot.

[Rob]

You develop new fears.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. There's new ones that arrived. There's enough of them around now.

[Rob]

Because when I was a kid, I didn't mind FL Lying either.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah. You become more of a wimp as you become more aware of your own mortality. Right.

[Rob]

I think. Yeah. That's really what it is, is that you're concerned about all the ways that you can die.

[David Ferrier]

But I love that the under the bed thing sticks. That, like, original one. There might be something under there. Check under your bed. We love Erlstein. He has, I think, a new kids book out. Like, when this episode drops. He's got one either out or out very soon.

[Rob]

He's just seven a year. He's gonna, like, every other month.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

More than that.

[David Ferrier]

Can't stop, can't stop, won't stop. R.L. stein we love him. Goosebumps. Iconic. Should we do some feedback? Let's do some feedback now because we're recording this episode a little bit early so we can go on tour. We have not yet got feedback from the food trucks episode. But just really briefly, the train crash feedback keeps coming in. I've got three emails I want to read. This seems to have resonated like so many Americans, so many listeners have had interactions with trains. Yeah, it's not like a rarity, you know. Dee was really insightful and I'm keeping their name anonymous. I'm actually a locomotive engineer for one of the Big Six in Rob's hometown of Chicago as an operator of locomotives and freight trains for the last a large number of years. Again, keeping them anonymous. This was a very informative episode, but there is some misinformation in there first off. Right on. About the big six as a whole. They are 100% completely all about profits 100% of the time. The thing you want to clear up the system that was talked about, positive train control. PTC is actually installed in all locomotives that I operate on a daily basis. This is federally regulated and mandatory. The system's in place to enforce speeding controls and to prevent trains from violating stop indication restrictions. It does not control the actual operation of the train. In addition, we're trained to notice and report any defects we see with railroad crossings, broken gates, lights missing, etc. If we see it, we report it. And he had one other thing he wanted to talk on. Putting a train into emergency brake is a very dangerous practice. Over the last few decades, freight trains have gradually become much larger and much heavier. The average train runs upwards of 8,000ft and over 10,000 tons, which is mind boggling.

[Rob]

Yeah, like

[David Ferrier]

I've operated trains in excess of 11,000ft and 20,000 tons, which again, insane. That being said, trains still use airpower's pneumatic braking systems. A conventional train is controlled with engines on the front of the train. And unlike a motor vehic, the brake system takes a long time to start working effectively. So a train that is over 10,000 tons can take well over a mile to stop, especially at speeds of around 50-60 mph. Now an emergency brake application would be a bad practice for the fact that the brakes set up on the front to back, meaning that the weight from the back will slam into the front. As locomotive engineers primary job function is to control train forces between rail cars. Applying the brakes recklessly can cause severe jackknifing and cause the trains to derail. His Main point being not an easy thing. He wanted to clarify to hit the emergency brake. It can set up a whole lot of other crazy shit. Keep up the great work and if you have any train questions, I'd be happy to try and help. Thank you. D Toot toot. Jenny said:40 years ago when I was a little kid, my parents had a Volkswagen bus Vanagon with a camper top. My family would often drive from Park City, Utah to Southern California where most of our relatives were. We would sleep in the van along the way. On one of the trips late at night, somewhere in the Nevada desert, my dad was getting tired and decided it was time to pull off road to get some rest. After getting the kids settled below, my parents climbed into the camper van bed. At one point after falling asleep, my parents were woken by lights shining through the canvas. Soon after realizing it was a train, they heard the train horn blasting. My mum screamed, did you park on the train tracks? I love this dad move, eh? As my dad was scrambling to find the car keys with the train getting closer, the horn getting louder and the lights getting brighter, they knew they didn't have time to climb down, start the car and move it. Nor do they have enough time to get everyone out without speaking, but knowing exactly what each of them thought, they grabbed and held onto each other, racing for impact. Sort of assuming they were going to die at this point. I'm very stressful reading this email.

[Rob]

Yeah, I don't like this and reading

[David Ferrier]

it, I know that at least someone survived. At the moment they thought they were about to be hit, the train swerved and missed them. As wind rocked the van. They couldn't believe it, but thanking my dad hadn't parked on the track and it curved just before reaching them. Okay, so he'd parked on the edge of a track.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Ferrier]

Train heading towards them curved around at the end. Finally. Layla Love the episode. It immediately brought back my time. My family was actually rear ended by a freight train in the middle of a blizzard. We were on an Amtrak train from Denver to San Francisco, not San Fran, when we got stranded for 12 hours in a total white out. While we were sitting ducks on the tracks, a freight train slammed into the back of our stationary passenger car. Luckily the freight train had started breaking only a few seconds too late and only going a few miles an hour on impact. No one is seriously injured, but it knocked a few people out of the seats. The best part of this ordeal was that we were dead center in the Donner Pass. I'm not sure how much you know about Donner Pass?

[Rob]

I drove through it this last December.

[David Ferrier]

Did you?

[R.L. Stine]

Yep.

[David Ferrier]

Topical.

[Rob]

I sent you information about it.

[David Ferrier]

Didn't read it. But the gist is that some pioneers got trapped in the pass in the mid-1800s, ran out of food and ate each other. This is ringing some bells on our trip. The dining car ran out of food, and the crew started handing out emergency rations of crackers and beef jerky.

[Rob]

Of other passengers.

[David Ferrier]

Of other passengers. The irony was not lost on us. I thought that was a great story.

[Rob]

Donner Pass is. It's a good maybe history teacher story.

[David Ferrier]

In that email, they actually said this would be good for your history teacher as well.

[Rob]

On the same page.

[David Ferrier]

Did you like it? You like being there?

[Rob]

It was pretty. It was also kind of scary.

[David Ferrier]

Is it like I'm picturing big cliffs either side? Kind of, yeah.

[Rob]

And it was also, like, snowed a ton. So luckily it was not snowing, but it was like hundreds of trucks lined up putting snow snow chains on their tires.

[David Ferrier]

All right. All that prepping just to get through. So it's like the scale.

[Rob]

It was just me and Calvin driving through it too.

[David Ferrier]

Did Calvin take the wheel for a little bit? No.

[Rob]

But just knowing the, like, history of it, and it's just like this big, big, mountainous, snowy kind of area that you're going through.

[David Ferrier]

People ate each other in there.

[Rob]

Yeah. I don't think I told him that part. Left that out. But I told him I was telling him the history of it.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

As we were driving through it.

[R.L. Stine]

Holy shit.

[David Ferrier]

If you have any stories about cannibalism, goosebumps, horror, R.L. stein, daughter's pass, or any of those things. Flightless bread [e-mail]. join us on our Patreon for weekly bonus [e-mail] Flightless Bird. We are on YouTube. We are on Instagram.

[Rob]

We are in Austin and Dallas this week.

[David Ferrier]

Come and see us. We tour. We don't tour often. And when we tour, it's funny, I've been saying to some friends, like, we're going on tour. So when you're going on tour, it sounds like, oh, on the road for months. It's like, no, we're doing three shows. They're like, is that a tourist? I'm like, yeah, it's a tour. More than one show is a tour.

[Rob]

It happened. Someone reached out about doing a nest session, and I was like, yeah, we're about to go.

[David Ferrier]

We're on.

[Rob]

We're going to do a tour. And they're like, oh, will you be back in May.

[David Ferrier]

Yeah, we'll be back in a week,

[Rob]

a week and a half.

[David Ferrier]

Oh, it's really Good. Yeah. Flightless. Breadchatmail.com and please share this show on wherever you are. Maybe you're on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, I don't know. Share it. Tell people about it. Send someone an email, write your mom a letter and tell them about the show.

[Rob]

Then hand write out the URL.

[David Ferrier]

Hand write out the URL. Maybe draw a picture.

[Rob]

You draw a bunch of COVID art.

[David Ferrier]

I like that a lot. Whatever way you can communicate that this show exists. Would absolutely love you to do that.

[Rob]

Maybe flyers for your neighbors.

[David Ferrier]

Flyers is good. If you've got a lot of cash, fly. Maybe rent a billboard and put it up on the way to Vegas. Flight this bird. Great podcast. You know, you could put a photo up there. We will let you do that. We will not sue you if you do that for us.

[Rob]

Absolutely. You can use David's likeness on anything.

[David Ferrier]

My likeness can be. Use it in any way you want.

[Rob]

As long as it's promoting the show.

[David Ferrier]

As long as it's promoting the show. Graffiti on a wall. Do whatever you want. I will appreciate it a lot. We'll see you at the live show. Alternatively, we'll see you on Patreon. Alternatively. See, we'll see you in a week's time.