Milky Bar Kid (AKA Falling in Love)

Summary

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Flightless Bird: "Milky Bar Kid (AKA Falling in Love)"

Host: David Farrier | Cohost: Rob
Release Date: February 3, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Flightless Bird juxtaposes two sides of contemporary America—a frank, urgent discussion of the ongoing ICE violence in Minneapolis, followed by a whimsical, heartfelt exploration of cross-cultural love, chocolate nostalgia, and the iconic Kiwi “Milky Bar Kid.” While starting with candid reflections on current events and protest culture, the main story centers around Doretta, an American woman, and Hayden, a former Milky Bar Kid from New Zealand, whose unlikely romance is wrapped in layers of family history, childhood fame, and, yes, chocolate allegiances.

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1. The Weight of Current Events in America

(00:00–02:15; 03:00–17:57)

Opening Reflections on ICE Violence

• David opens with a stark statement:
  "[It] is utterly barbaric and insane that ICE goons are openly executing Americans on the street, and it is an utterly deranged situation that the American government is openly lying to the public about their reasons for doing so." (00:06, David Farrier)

• He describes witnessing the aftermath of the killing of Alex Pretty in Minneapolis and his anger as both an outsider and a resident journalist.

• Emphasis on activism:
  David encourages listeners—especially those with any platform—to "be yapping about it, else what's even the point?" (01:22, David Farrier)

On-the-Ground Journalism and Community Solidarity

• David and Rob discuss:

  • The cold brutality of ICE's presence.
  • The essential role of citizen "ICE patrols" in gathering evidence and countering state narratives.
  • The duality of America: “the juxtaposition of the most inhumane parts of this country, but then also the most beautiful and humane parts.” (09:31, Rob)

• Community resilience:
  David describes mutual aid—a cafe opening its doors to tear-gassed protestors, strangers offering comfort and supplies, and a city “so organized... it's hopeful.” (09:10–09:31, David)

Media Manipulation and Misinformation

• The hosts wrestle with the prevalence of video manipulation, “crazy gaslighting” online, and shifting blame from authorities to victims.

  • “We’re all watching the same video, so why aren’t we all seeing it? But... we’re seeing very different versions of that same video manipulated in very different ways.” (11:57, David)

• Rob shares the frustration of arguing even with family, “just grasping at straws to make [Alex] the enemy in an insane way.” (14:26, Rob)

• Caution to listeners:
  “Restrain yourself before you repost or say anything because it’s pretty wild out there online. And that’s all by design.” (10:10, David)

Fears for American Democracy

• The hosts voice concerns about complacency after incremental "victories" and the ongoing slide into authoritarianism:

  • “I just get... we take these wins as too much of wins when there’s so much more to be done.” (15:25, David)
  • “What it’s setting up with voter... the votes coming for the midterms is also terrifying...” (16:03, Rob)

• David closes the section, reflecting, “Those are the Americans that I love.” (17:07, David)

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2. Chocolate, Advertising, and the Milky Bar Kid

(21:20–41:54)

Introducing Lighter Fare: A Candy-Colored Pivot

• After the intense opening, the podcast “awkwardly pivots” to the lighter subject of chocolate, advertisements, and nostalgia.
  • “We need to give our brand… it’s important to be engaged… it’s also important to occasionally have moments, if you can, of calm, else we’re all going to fall apart...” (17:42, David)

The Hosts Debate: The (Dubious) State of American Chocolate

• David is unabashedly a “chocolate snob,” calling Hershey’s “revolting… tastes like vomit. Tastes off. Tastes disgusting.”

  • “You’re American. You’re being indoctrinated into the vom. You don’t know any different.” (23:34, David)

• Rob is less passionate, but admits nostalgia for Hershey’s in s’mores.

Kiwi Chocolate Royalty: The Milky Bar Kid Explained

• Cultural iconography:
  In New Zealand, the Milky Bar Kid is as famous as “Jacinda Ardern, the All Blacks, Lord of the Rings.”

  • “He is as big as Jacinda Ardern, as big as the All Blacks, as big as Lord of the Rings, as big as James Cameron's Avatar trilogy.” (24:09, David)

• The Milky Bar Kid:

  • 1980s–90s ad campaign for white chocolate.
  • Blonde “cowboy” child, arriving in a Western town to save the day and distribute Milky Bars.
  • Endlessly quoted catchphrase: “The Milky Bars are on me!”

• David and Rob compare the Milky Bar Kid to U.S. commercial mascots, like “the Pepsi Kid” and “Old Spice Guy,” reflecting on the changing (and often lackluster) state of modern American ads.

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3. A Transcontinental Love Story—Doretta & the Real Milky Bar Kid

(29:05–41:54)

Doretta’s Chocolate Heritage

• Doretta Hess, from Lancaster, PA, grew up just outside the Hershey chocolate empire.
  • Her great-great-grandfather, Levi Hershey, was cousins with Milton Hershey but “missed out” on becoming a chocolate mogul after turning down a business partnership.
  • “My great-great-grandfather... was a caramel maker and was asked to go into business with Milton... thought it would be a poor choice, so we missed out on that.” (29:39, Doretta Hess)

A Serendipitous Encounter

• Doretta, a self-described “recovering Mennonite,” attends a friend’s 50th birthday. She meets Hayden, “originally from New Zealand,” and the chemistry is instant.

  • “He was immediately different from anyone I ever met before... we have been inseparable on the weekends at least since.” (32:29, Doretta Hess)

• Hayden, for his part:
  “My first impressions were like, wow, yeah, stunning, beautiful.” (32:50, Hayden)

Who is Hayden? The Real Milky Bar Kid

• Hayden is a real-life farrier (horse hoof-care specialist) and, as a child, was the star of the Milky Bar Kid commercials in New Zealand.

• He describes his audition:

  • “…They got you dressed up in like a little cowboy outfit. And they were basically saying, okay, if you can imagine that there's a chest of gold in front of you, we just want you to pull the gun out, shoot the chest and hold the gun up in the air and say, the Milky Bars are on me.” (37:54, Hayden)

• On fame and legacy:

  • “It still baffles me that it's still a big thing.” (38:54, Hayden)

• He kept the original outfit, but won’t bring the (toy) gun and “legit-looking” bullet belt through TSA.

Love, Cultural Surprises, and Chocolate Tastes

• Doretta experiences New Zealand—a trip that brings her closer to Hayden and reveals “why he says, ‘I’m going to the toilet’”—because in NZ homes, the toilet is often separate from the rest of the bathroom.
  (40:58, Doretta Hess)

• She tries her first Milky Bar:

  • “I am not normally a white chocolate fan, but it is really really good. Like, it's sweet, but it's also creamy and just really delicious.” (41:36, Doretta Hess)

• David relishes their story as “a New Zealander who played a cowboy riding around...pretending to be in America’s Old West...found himself decades later living in America, working with horses for real.” (41:54, David)

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4. Reflections, Feedback, and Listener Questions

(45:32–57:56)

Chocolate Preferences & Family Names

• David admits to being a “choc man all the way” and goes into detail about his family name’s occupational roots (“farrier” meaning horseshoe fitter).
• Hayden and David are unrelated, despite the professional overlap.

On Childhood Fame and American Advertising

• Hayden’s childhood fame as Milky Bar Kid did not “set him up for life,” earning a flat fee of about $10,000, banked by his parents.
• The hosts discuss differences in advertising culture U.S. vs. NZ, and the phenomenon of celebrities taking ad gigs today versus the past.

Listener Feedback

• Corrections on plural of “die” (it’s “dice”).
• Listener suggestions for future episodes, especially around niche cults and history teachers.
• Invitation to listeners to share their own stories for upcoming Flights of Fancy or history-themed episodes.

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On mutual aid in Minneapolis:
  “The way mutual aid is so embedded in that community... even when the tear gas started flying…businesses and residents were opening their doors. And this cafe let a bunch of people in…‘use those [napkins] to wipe your faces down, snot off your face. Here’s water, here’s drink, here’s coffee.’” (09:10–09:27, David Farrier)

• On American chocolate:
  “Hershey’s chocolate…the first time I had it…good God…tastes like vomit. Tastes off. Tastes disgusting.” (23:18–23:19, David Farrier)

• On why the Milky Bar Kid resonates:
  “If you were alive in New Zealand in the 90s the Milky Bar Kid ads were everywhere.” (36:54, David Farrier)

• On encountering fame as a nine-year-old:
  “I think there was five and a half thousand, six thousand kids that auditioned... So yeah, it sort of blew me out of the water really because I had no experience prior to that…” (37:54, Hayden)

• On their relationship’s chocolate differences:
  “You can see what kind of dilemma I’m in though, mate, is like, I promoted a white chocolate. Now I’m dating a girl that comes from the dark chocolate side. Like, what do I do?” (37:01, Hayden)

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6. Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:22: David's explicit callout of ICE executions; emotional context.
• 09:10–09:31: Inspiring account of Minneapolis mutual aid.
• 11:57: The manipulation of protest footage—media literacy note.
• 23:18–23:19: David’s visceral reaction to Hershey’s as a Kiwi.
• 24:01–26:43: Origin & cultural impact of the Milky Bar Kid.
• 29:39–30:31: Doretta’s family history and the “missed” Hershey legacy.
• 32:29–32:50: Doretta & Hayden’s first meeting and impressions.
• 37:54: Hayden’s account of his Milky Bar Kid audition and fame.
• 40:58: Doretta learning about “going to the toilet” in NZ.
• 41:36: Doretta’s first Milky Bar experience.
• 45:32–46:57: Playful chocolate preferences discussion.
• 49:07–50:12: On the “unregulated” American farrier profession and fan clubs.
• 53:54–55:52: Listener feedback; ideas for cult and history episodes.
• 57:16–57:56: Final call for story submissions; update on Patreon goal.

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Tone & Language

• Farrier’s voice: Warm, self-effacing, earnest, often humorous ("awkward pivot"), never preachy but forceful when needed.
• Rob’s tone: Grounded, gently skeptical, ready with personal anecdotes, balancing Farrier’s intensity.
• Interviewees (Doretta & Hayden): Genuine, candid, blending quirky New Zealand nostalgia with American earnestness.

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In Summary

While the episode opens with gravity and rage at ongoing violence and erosion of American democratic norms, it seamlessly transitions to a charming and unlikely love story that bridges two countries’ chocolate empires and ad culture. Along the way, the hosts revisit the power of cultural icons, the value of mutual aid, and the simple joys of finding someone to love—even (especially) if you hail from rival chocolate dynasties.

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For those who haven’t listened: this episode balances social criticism, cross-cultural trivia, a touch of absurdity, and genuine sweetness—much like a Milky Bar itself.

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Transcript

[David Farrier]

There's no call from Rosabelle or Hayden at the top of this episode, and that's because I wanted to take the time to say something else. It is utterly barbaric and insane that ICE goons are openly executing Americans on the street, and it is an utterly deranged situation that the American government is openly lying to the public about their reasons for doing so. I was in Minneapolis on Saturday 24th January when Alex Pretty was executed. Shot 10 times in the back while being restrained by ICE officers. He had a gun, sure, but it was very clear it was in his holster before ICE goons removed it and then murdered him. What was he doing immediately prior helping a woman and daring to film ICE on his cell phone? Was he attending a protest when all this happened? No, there was no protest. He was just a guy on the street. I was there 45 minutes after it happened. I got tear gassed. I saw smirking ICE agents and I still feel really angry about it, even though I'm a New Zealander and also quite repressed on a personal level, so find it hard to show that anger. With all that said, this is a very lighthearted episode about an entirely different topic. I really hope you enjoy it and have a moment of escapism, whilst also never forgetting that what is happening here in the US right now is incredibly messed up and we really, really need to be aware of what's happening and anyone with a platform to yap should be yapping about it, else what's even the point? With that said, I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. We get a lot of listener feedback each week on this show, some of which we love reading at the end of every episode. But some feedback really just jumps out in a way that it tackles the core concept of this show, the differences between New Zealand and the United States. Such was the case when an American woman called Doretta wrote in to flight the spirit chatmail.com with her tale of falling in love with a New Zealander. Little did she know at the time she'd fallen for one of New Zealand most famous people, a man we call the Milky Bar Kid, and that they had more in common than she ever would have imagined. So get ready for a slightly unconventional love story because this is the Milky Bar Kid episode. This episode is brought to you by.

[Doretta Hess]

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[David Farrier]

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[Doretta Hess]

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[Doretta Hess]

[e-mail].

[David Farrier]

Flagless, flagless.

[Rob]

Flightless bird touchdown in America.

[David Farrier]

I'm a flyless bird. Touchdown in America. Good morning, Robert.

[Rob]

Good morning, David.

[David Farrier]

We're recording this on January 29, just in case any other chaos happens between now and then and people are like, why aren't you talking about that? Yeah, likely Will also wanted to address. If I'm talking a bit funny, it might all be in my head. I had some minor oral surgery where they. Apparently, two of my gums have been brushing my teeth too hard my entire life because I thought that's what you're meant to do. Apparently I brushed two of my gums away. And so yesterday a dental surgeon took flesh from the roof of my mouth, sort of chopped that out, and they've sewn it down the bottom of my mouth. And it's quite sore.

[Rob]

Yeah, it's quite disgusting. You sent me pictures of it.

[David Farrier]

I thought you'd enjoy. I thought you'd enjoy that.

[Rob]

No.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, Quite a bit of. It's just quite hard to talk and a little bit sore. But also I'm fine. And you told me when I texted you you've also had oral surgery.

[Rob]

When I was a kid, I had also I had all the braces and orthodontia.

[David Farrier]

I didn't know that I was a braces boy.

[Rob]

Yeah. I had like the overbite thing. Not headgear, but the like crank in the mouth.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

All of that to fix it.

[David Farrier]

So sore, that shit.

[Rob]

And before that was like pulled teeth.

[David Farrier]

And also your mouth was a real. It was a bit of a mess, apparently. Right. And you said you had to have your gums, whereas my gums are too thin. Your gums are too thick.

[Rob]

Yeah. I've had to have them shaved down when I was. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

If we had met each other a bit earlier, potentially your shaven down gums could have been grafted onto my shitty gums.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And you could have. Could have fused into the one person.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all pretty gross.

[David Farrier]

Anyway, I won't linger on that, but just a little insight into my mouth. Minneapolis. I just got back from there.

[Rob]

It's cold. Huh?

[David Farrier]

It's freezing. Someone mentioned this, but the crunch that the snow makes at that kind of temperature, it was like negative 30 at one point.

[Rob]

Is wind chill though, right? Or was that actual temperature?

[David Farrier]

Actual temp.

[Rob]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

It was so cold.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

It was insane. Yeah. Like, the way the snow crunches under your feet is just. I've never encountered that before. I've been in New York when it's been super cold.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

But this was like another level where, like, you take your gloves off for one second.

[Rob]

It hurts.

[David Farrier]

It hurts. Yeah. It's, like, painful. But I just wanted to say this isn't going to be an episode about ice in Minneapolis. Me and Rob are going to record an episode for our Patreon on Thursday, talking about that it's going to be free. It's not going to cost anything. So if you go to patreon.com Flightless Bird, the episode of us talking about Minneapolis and trying to digest what's going on there will be there. It'll be a separate episode. Free. There it is. Just briefly, I went to Minneapolis for the march, the strike, and the march that happened on the Friday, but the day before Alex died.

[Rob]

Yeah. You were going because of the Renee Goode protests.

[David Farrier]

Yes.

[Rob]

Essentially at that point on the Friday.

[David Farrier]

There was a strike and a protest about that killing.

[Rob]

Yes. And just the presence of ice there.

[David Farrier]

Yes.

[Rob]

And then you get there and this other horrific thing happens.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Things just kept escalating.

[David Farrier]

I ended up being at the site where Alex was executed about 45 minutes after it happened. So things kicked off there pretty quickly. Um, so I've got a series of five pieces up on Webworm that's all for free. That's kind of that. If you don't know about it, that's sort of my journalistic outlet. And so that's at www.webworm.co. it's all free. But I've got a series there about attending the march and the general strike on the Friday, then a piece on Alex getting executed on the Saturday. And then I went out with some citizens that were doing ice patrols. So that's that network of residents who are going around, basically document what ice is doing. And when you look at the government's response to these two murders, if we didn't have footage of what was going on then, holy shit.

[Rob]

Well, I mean, there's stuff going around of, like, they're lying about it when we have it on camera. Imagine what they're doing when we don't.

[David Farrier]

Totally. And I think that's when you think of how important these ice patrols are. They're so important. Without that, it's like, what have we got?

[Rob]

The, like, steps they are now taking in reaction to it. Now that, like, it's clear they've been caught.

[David Farrier]

Yes.

[Rob]

They're like, sidelining Bavino and on these other things, like, the policy isn't changing still.

[David Farrier]

No. And that's the thing, I think, why I feel so mad coming back from Minneapolis. You just got to see firsthand how smarmy the ice agents are. Like, they just. That's how I describe them. Like, the way they interact with people. They're just smarmy and awful. And this whole, you know, getting rid of Bavino, there was this sort of temptation at the time to sort of.

[Rob]

Go, yeah, we won, we're done. This isn't gonna happen anymore.

[David Farrier]

Nothing has changed.

[Rob]

Before we go too far off of that. Yes, you were seeing that stuff, which obviously everyone is angry. But there is also this element of seeing Minneapolis come together and the people there and the rest of the country coming behind them, too, that I think, think is so representative of America.

[David Farrier]

And we were texting about this while I was there. Like, the. I've never sort of witnessed people coming together and being so organized. Like, their. The way mutual aid is so embedded in that community, the way people are just. They have food and money to give and to help. And even when the tear gas started flying on Saturday, about an hour after the murder, we were all obviously being pushed back down the street, and businesses and residents were opening their doors. And I just remember a cafe opened their door, and we all sort of flooded in. And there are a couple of people sitting there just having breakfast and coffee. Like, they had just gone for their breakfast and coffee. And this cafe let a bunch of people in who all had, like, snot coming out their noses. And they were all completely messed up from the tear gas and all the beautiful napkins that were laid out on the table. So the cafe, they just use them. Like, use those to wipe your faces down, snot off your face. Here's water, here's drink, here's coffee. And that cafe was still going 10 o' clock that night. And that's just. And the coordination of the community to push back and not take it sitting down is so. It's hopeful. I find that I'm so cynical about that word, but it is fucking hopeful.

[Rob]

Well, it's the juxtaposition of the most inhumane parts of this country, but then also the most beautiful and humane parts completely.

[David Farrier]

And seeing those two rubbing up against each other was wild making.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Like, I just. I don't understand how those both come from the same place. It's like, did you have different history lessons at school. Like, where did this. Like, why are we doing this? It's insane. Yeah, yeah. And obviously I'd just say beware of every bit of dialogue you see being flung around on the Internet. It's like, AI is into the conversation. There are videos that are AI, that people are saying, aren't there are people. The videos that are real, that people are saying is AI. And just restrain yourself before you repost or say anything because it's pretty wild out there online. And that's all by design.

[Rob]

Yes. And I think it's also just shows the silos. I had restrained myself from trying to have a conversation with my brother about this until this more recent one happened.

[David Farrier]

Right.

[Rob]

And, like, was that a call or a text? It was a text. I almost called him.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

But it ended up being a text of just like, I don't know what your thoughts are on what's happening and what you're seeing, but, like, clearly you've got to see how fucked up all of this is.

[David Farrier]

And what. What was his take?

[Rob]

I mean, there was some acknowledgement of that, but then there's obviously, like, backpedaling on other things and then, like, sharing. You shared videos from his feed to me that were like, such manipulated versions of reality. Like, yeah, it was a video of, like, the Alex video in slow motion where it was like, 100% justification of.

[David Farrier]

This, him making a movie.

[Rob]

And it was like frames of like. And they're being like, he's reaching for his gun.

[David Farrier]

I've seen images going around of when Alex was holding up his cell phone. People sharing images of that zoomed in, circled. It's just. With the word gun there.

[Rob]

And it's just this, like, crazy gaslighting that is happening, where then the response is like, well, your videos are the same, but it's. But it's not like the videos that we're watching are like, here's footage of what happened.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I think you're completely right because that's. That's the wild making thing about it, is you're like, we're all watching the same video, so why aren't we all seeing it? But you're right, we're seeing very different versions of that same video manipulated in very different ways.

[Rob]

It's this insane thing of what the right has been doing is calling out these things that they're usually the ones guilty of doing it. There's stuff going around now of, like, campaign funds going to. Funding the protesters in their travel. That's the whole narrative.

[David Farrier]

They're all paid.

[Rob]

Yes, but that Is like been the claim to the left the last. How many years was that there's paid protesters.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

The fact that it's coming out that these people were potentially paid protesters. Yeah, yeah. It's. It is all very maddening.

[David Farrier]

Another thing that exploded yesterday, which was the. 28th January when we record this is that essentially footage came out from, I think it was 10 days earlier of Alex yelling at some ICE agents and trucks and kicking the tail light off one of their cars. Two interesting things came out of that. The first was this narrative that went insane that it's just A.I. it wasn't A.I. this was real footage. It was confirmed by numerous outlets. But that was one whole big very annoying argument to see was people saying this is AI Just frustrating to see immediately the. The place you're starting from is false. And then that video, you see this and I saw a bunch of people I guess from. I don't know what it is the right. This strange pocket that I don't understand saying look, he was violent. This is why he was a menace. This is why he was killed.

[Rob]

This is why his execution was justified by people that are not able to make that determination.

[David Farrier]

No. And it's wild on every level. You know, if those agents knew that Alex was the one that kicked their head laid out, it's worse because he was targeted for that execution. Also that very obvious thing of what you just said probably didn't know that.

[Rob]

Yeah. But also not how our criminal system works. That's not how it's supposed to work. And they're not the ones that get to decide that. And the fact that like this person who is dead is being villainized and attacked.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Like there's no. They're just grasping at straws to make.

[David Farrier]

Him the enemy in an insane way. And it's backfired on to a point. But I also think I feel like America and the world at a whole doesn't realize how fucked up and scary it is. Like when you see the number of ICE agents patrolling in that city.

[Rob]

I think America does realize how scary it is.

[David Farrier]

I hope they do. I still worry they don't. That enough of them don't.

[Rob]

Yeah. Yes. I guess I. I can't speak for as large.

[David Farrier]

I hope you're right. I hope on mass people are coming around to how much of a slide into fascism that this is. And I just. I just. I hope they do.

[Rob]

Well. I mean we're seeing the demonstrations and the protesters. People out there like those people understand what's happening.

[David Farrier]

My worry is the Reaction when someone like Greg resigns. Little Ice Chief when he resigns, that people cheer like that is some sort.

[Rob]

Of victory and that the fight is.

[David Farrier]

Over and the fight's over in the same way that so many people thought Kamala Harris was going to win at the time. And it was clearly Trump the whole way. I just get we. I just. I'm afraid, like, we take these wins as too much of wins when there's so much more to be done.

[Rob]

Yeah, I agree. And I mean, yeah, that. That is my fear as well. Because him being gone does not fix what issue and what's happening.

[David Farrier]

Oh, no. Still agents still flowing in.

[Rob]

There's now they're in Maine now, I think.

[David Farrier]

Yep. Coming into Maine and also very clearly taking footage and keeping a database of protesters and people that are turning up to document these killings.

[Rob]

The whole. Though what it's setting up with voter. The votes coming for the midterms is also terrifying of like the seizures of the ballots in 2020 in Georgia now.

[David Farrier]

Well, clearly the overriding thing over all of this is we have a president that doesn't want to give up power, and with this election coming up, he's not going to want to go. And all these things appear to be creating a scenario where Trump sees himself being able to stay in power. And that's, you know.

[Rob]

Well, yeah. Yeah. It seems like now terrifying. The actions are out of place of desperation and fear on his. Which is a much scarier place to be in. That's. We're seeing the tactics elevated as a result.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. But I feel like I came back from Minneapolis with a newfound appreciation for how messed up all of this is. And like, what you said, how fucking cool the people are there because they are like the people in Minneapolis that are not ice goons are all frigging amazing and everyone's looking after each other. And that's the part of America. And those are the Americans that I love.

[Rob]

Yeah. And I think I want to keep reminding you think that is more what America is and what we're here to talk about on this show.

[David Farrier]

You get all my angry texts of being like, you know this place, man. Okay. An awkward pivot into an episode that is full of whimsy and charm and. And light.

[Rob]

Yeah. What everyone needs. I mean, you said it in the intro. I think. I think it is the escapism of some of this is nice to have.

[David Farrier]

Yes. Well, we need to give our brand. It's. It's important to be engaged in everything that's going on. It's also important to occasionally have moments, if you can, of calm, else we're all going to fall apart and be completely useless, you know. And that's kind of what I think of this episode as being.

[Rob]

After you wade through this, after you.

[David Farrier]

Wade through all of this muck. But again, on Thursday, free on our Patreon, Rob and I will talk more about this. We're going to record that a bit closer to release because things are moving so, so fast. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word for from our sponsors. This episode of Flightless Bird is brought to you by Wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first bake from Frozen subscription box for sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pastas. Plus all items conveniently bake in 25 minutes or less. I don't know whether you're aware how much I love bread and especially sourdough, but good God, this is built for me. You get it out of your freezer, it's in the oven for 25 minutes or less and you have this beautiful bread smell all around the house. And good God, it tastes good. And unlike many store bought options, Wild Grain uses simple ingredients you can pronounce and a slow fermentation process and can be easier on your belly and richer in nutrients and antioxidants. There's no preservatives and no shortcuts. Wild Grains boxes are fully customizable. In addition to their variety box, they have a gluten free box, a vegan box, and a new protein box if you want that protein. I love Wild Grain. I now know where I want to get all my bread from again. As I read this ad, I just think of the smell in my house at the moment. So good. There's nothing like having an artisan bakery in your freezer to chase away the winter chill. Now is the best time to stay in and enjoy comforting homemade meals with Wild grain. I highly recommend giving Wild Grain a try. Right now, Wild Grain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box plus free Croissants for Life when you go to wildgrain.combird to start your subscription today. That's $30 off your first box and free Croissants for Life when YOU visit wildgrain.com or you can use promo code Bird at checkout. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Bombus. Now people keep saying to me, what's your 2026 resolution? Sure, I've got my usual goals including keeping making this podcast each week for you, but this year there's a new one at the top of my list. Get comfy, be comfy, be happy. And that's where Bombas comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all my everyday go tos. Like if you're into sport, the all new Bombus sport socks are engineered with sport specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, that kind of. I do a lot of hiking at the moment, even more than I was doing last year. And I love these Bombus sport socks just for that. Also they do footwear for those everyday around the house situations. Bombass also has you covered with the comfiest footwear imaginable. I really like their Sunday slippers. I love a good slipper. Haven't had one in a long time now. We're here in winter at the moment in the us. I love my slippers for nighttime and the new squishy Saturday suede slip on shoes are great for comfort on the go and underneath it all you can get underwear and tees. The softest base layers that will have you rethinking your whole wardrobe. Wardrobe Bombus underwear and T shirts are flexible, breathable and buttery smooth. For every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated with over 150 million donations and counting, head over to bombus.combird and use code bird for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com bird code bird@ checkout Ever since I started serving cut water canned cocktails to my guests. Hey.

[Rob]

Hi.

[David Farrier]

How are you? Yeah, going through.

[Rob]

I've gone from host to hero thanks to Cutwater.

[David Farrier]

I can make real perfectly mixed cocktails in seconds.

[Rob]

It's as simple as garnishing a glass.

[David Farrier]

Cracking my can of cut water open and pouring it over ice. Cut water. Real cocktails perfectly mixed. Copyright 2025 Cut Water Spirits, San Diego, CA Enjoy responsibly. As some background to this very quirky little documentary today. It is based in the world of chocolate. We have done a chocolate episode. We've done a candy episode which this listener that is the focus of the doc listened to and wrote in about. But just recapping chocolate in America, Rob this is such an awkward transition to recognize, but just Hershey's Chocolate is a focus of the stock a little bit. We return to this. I think it tastes like very off milk or sort of vomiting. What is your take on just generally the state of chocolate in America? That's my big question for you today. I Mean, very important topic.

[Rob]

I don't have a strong stance. I'm not a big chocolate consumer. So I.

[David Farrier]

What was the last slice of chalk you had?

[Rob]

Like, there's a Nashville chocolate spot, Olivin Sinclair that I love. I wear the sweater sometimes.

[David Farrier]

They do good chalk.

[Rob]

They do great chalk.

[David Farrier]

Great chalk.

[Rob]

But they're like a small batch.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Artisanal chocolate shop. So I can get behind that.

[David Farrier]

Would you ever buy a Hershey's chocolate bar? No, just not going near.

[Rob]

I mean, maybe if I'm making s' mores and I'm camping with the boys.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

Like, there is a nostalgic flavor to that, but, like, you're not buying chocolate.

[David Farrier]

I mean, it's revolting. Yeah. Hershey's chocolate, the first time I had it, because in my mind, Hershey's chocolate, I'd feel like even in New Zealand, I'd seen the ads for it. In New Zealand you can get Hershey's, but we just never touch it because why would you. But my first taste of Hershey's, it was like, good God. Like, I know I'm from a country that has.

[Rob]

You're a chocolate snob is what it sounds.

[David Farrier]

I'm a. I'm a. I have a massive. For all the I give you about being a snob, I'm a massive chocolate snob. Awful. Tastes like vomit. Tastes off. Tastes disgusting.

[Rob]

I mean, I. I'll just agree there. I've had Hershey's and I don't think it's awful.

[David Farrier]

You don't taste the bomb?

[Rob]

No, I mean, it's.

[David Farrier]

You're American. It's a sign of an American. You're being indoctrinated into the bomb. You don't know any different. You've had it since a kid and you don't know how bad it is.

[Rob]

I mean, I've had good chocolate and I've had Hershey's and yes, I can tell the difference of, like, good high end chocolate.

[David Farrier]

But you're saying you don't taste the vom.

[Rob]

I look, thinking back of it, I'm not. No, Hershey's is fine.

[David Farrier]

Incredible.

[Rob]

So tell me though, what is Milky Bar?

[David Farrier]

Okay, so that was going to be my question to you as well. When I say the Milky Bar Kid.

[Rob]

Yeah. No.

[David Farrier]

What images are conjured up when I say Milky Bar Kid? Because the Milky Bar Kid in New Zealand is an icon. He is as big as Jacinda Ardern, as big as the All Blacks, as big as Lord of the Rings, as big as James Cameron's avatar Trilogy. Trilogy.

[Rob]

You telling me that makes me think of the Pepsi Girl, The Pepsi Kid.

[David Farrier]

Who's the Pepsi Kid?

[Rob]

Jesse Eisenberg's sister. Little sister.

[David Farrier]

I'm unaware of this.

[Rob]

It was just like a little girl from Pepsi commercials.

[David Farrier]

No way. And what did the Pepsi Kid do?

[Rob]

She was just the Pepsi Kid. That's what you expl. This reminds me of.

[David Farrier]

So the Milky Bar Kid and I go into this a little bit in the doc, but the Milky Bar Kid was a. A commercial we had in New Zealand advertising a white chocolate.

[Rob]

So, like a white. What are your thoughts on white chocolate?

[David Farrier]

I love a white.

[Rob]

I do love white chocolate.

[David Farrier]

It's controversial. We love white chocolate.

[Rob]

It's controversial, though.

[David Farrier]

We like white.

[Rob]

Natalie hates white chocolate.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I think. I think. Look, I'm joking. I think it's a white people thing.

[Rob]

People say it's not real chocolate.

[David Farrier]

No, I mean, it's basically just like sugar with no class. I feel like it's. I mean, I love it. I love Shovel it.

[Rob]

I love white chocolate, too.

[David Farrier]

Okay. Gonna be a White chocolate lovers episode. So you would love the Milky Bar. It is one of our. When I say our, it's not actually a New Zealand brand, but it got really big in New Zealand.

[Rob]

Where is it from?

[David Farrier]

It's from, like, Switzerland.

[Rob]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

But it got big in New Zealand. And then we made this ad, the Milky Bucket. And the Milkyback Head was essentially this kid in the late 80s, early 90s. He was dressed up as a cowboy.

[Rob]

As he would be.

[David Farrier]

As you would be. Note that New Zealand doesn't have a cowboy culture, so it's riffing on American culture. He would roll into, like, an old Western town. There'd usually be some kind of criminal who had stolen all of the Milky Bars in town. The Milky Bar Kid would roll in. Kids in the town would be like, oh, my God, it's the Milky Bar Kid. And he had come in. He'd kill. It's very American. He'd kill the robber. He'd grab, like, a chase.

[Rob]

How would he kill him?

[David Farrier]

He had a gun. Very American.

[Rob]

This is a very violent commercial.

[David Farrier]

Very violent commercial. He would kill. I'm probably making this up. I think he just, like, waved a gun and the robber, like, freaked out, dropped all the Milky bars. The Milky Bar Kid would grab this chest of Milky Bars and deliver his iconic line, the Milky Bars are on me. The whole town would celebrate. And that was the commercial. And this became so big.

[Rob]

Was it one commercial or is it a series of commercials?

[David Farrier]

Good point. It was a series. There was One primary one. And then they made some variations, and it was everywhere, and it was huge. And with that bit of knowledge about Hershey's and the Milky Bucket, I think we're ready for today's documentary.

[Rob]

Do you have any American commercials that you like?

[David Farrier]

Good question.

[Rob]

Because in this case, there are multiple. Along the same theme. I feel like we're losing that a little bit.

[David Farrier]

Series. I remember thinking that's a bit funny. Was the. I'm probably going to mispronounce this. The Brute ads, the deodorant. It was a very sexy, luscious black man who was always topless, muscly, beautiful.

[Rob]

Talking about Old Spice.

[David Farrier]

Old Spice.

[Rob]

And that's Isaiah Mustafa.

[David Farrier]

Okay. That ad was amazing. Sorry. Brute is another. Maybe that's a New Zealand brand. You know, Old Spice. I thought that series was top shelf.

[Rob]

I do really like the progressive commercials.

[David Farrier]

What are they? I feel like I might have seen.

[Rob]

Them, but it's the guys that are the people that are turning into their parents.

[David Farrier]

I haven't seen these.

[Rob]

So it's them, like, at the valet line talking about it. Just, like, doing. So it. I like them so much because it reminds me so much of my dad and just pretty. It's pretty much like, don't be like your parents. You're turning into your parents. Stop doing the things. And there's this, like, coach that's with them, stopping them from doing these embarrassing dad or mom things where they're like, he's at a coffee shop and they call it someone's name and they don't hear it. So he picks the coffee up and he's saying the name as well and just making dad jokes.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the series that works. I still am amazed at how much money goes into ads and how generally how they still are. So when you get a series that's actually funny and works, it's like, oh, my God, this is what they all should be like. Yeah. Like, it's amazing to me how terrible they are.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Even some of the super bowl commercials.

[Rob]

Which, speaking of super bowl is coming up.

[David Farrier]

Oh, my God. Ad time.

[Rob]

And there are ads, Lots and lots of these. I feel. I do feel like they've gotten worse over the years.

[David Farrier]

But, yeah, like, I also. And probably Coca Cola is probably one of the most evil companies alive, I imagine. But I've always enjoyed Coca Cola commercials. I have, like, a very warm memories in New Zealand of watching, like, the polar bear having a Coke and just thinking like, oh, my God, I love this. I love this drink. I love this cute polar bear. Give me Coke. So the Milky Bar kid was like that for us. We love the Milky Bar Kid. Obsessed with him.

[Rob]

Yeah, let's hear about the Milky Bar kid.

[David Farrier]

Okay.

[Doretta Hess]

I'm Doretta Hess and I live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

[David Farrier]

Doretta tells me that she works in the medical field doing something complicated that I don't fully understand. But it's important work that she enjoys. She got in touch with Flight the Spirit after listening to our candy episode, wanting to tell us that while her work is important, her mind sometimes drifts to her great great grandfather. And how if her great great grandfather had made a different choice, she wouldn't be working in the medical field at all. She'd probably be working in the chocolate business instead.

[Doretta Hess]

So my maternal grandmother was a Hershey. And the story is, and I verified this with my dad, who is a truth teller, he makes sure everything he says is accurate. So my great great grandfather, his name was Levi Hershey and he was a.

[David Farrier]

Cousin to Milton, as in Milton Hershey, the man who started Hershey's Chocolate in America. And Dorita's great great grandfather was Milton's cousin.

[Doretta Hess]

We don't know for sure if they were first cousins, second cousins, I don't know, but they were cousins. And my great great grandfather was a caramel maker and was asked to go into business with Milton at one point and thought it would be a poor choice, so we missed out on that.

[David Farrier]

I didn't know this until now, but before Hershey's was a thing, Milton Hershey pioneered the of caramel in the U.S. that's why he'd wanted to go into business with Doretta's ancestor, also a caramel man. But for whatever ill fated reason, Doretta's great great grandfather said no to working with his either second or first cousin. And so he missed out on being a part of what would turn into the Hershey's chocolate empire. He missed out. Which meant that Doretta, decades later, also missed out. But why is she still thinking about chocolate all these years later? Well, chocolate wasn't done with her, apparently.

[Doretta Hess]

So I was invited to my friend's 50th birthday party. Shout out to Tony, my friend Tony who, you know, we were friends, but I didn't see her a whole lot. Cause we lived an hour and a half apart. And she invited me and I went, knowing she was gonna be the only person I would know at this party.

[David Farrier]

Dorita wasn't the party type. She was divorced 14 years ago. She had a busy job, she had her hands full. She already had a kid who was now in their 20s and she definitely wasn't looking for love.

[Doretta Hess]

Hayden was the first person to introduce himself to me when I walked in the door. And like, he was lovely. Like I said to him, it was very loud where we were and I said, wait. I said, are you local? Meaning like, do you live here? And he was like, well, I'm originally from New Zealand. So we chatted a little bit. He was lovely, had the sparkle in his eye. And then we kind of went our separate ways the most of the rest of the evening until kind of like the after party. And he kind of came over and asked me to dance. And I said, I'm a recovering Mennonite. And he said, I don't know what that means. And I said, it just means I'm bad at dancing. Then I dance with him.

[David Farrier]

And.

[Doretta Hess]

We kind of have been inseparable on the weekends at least since it was, he was just immediately different from anyone I ever met before. So it was lovely.

[David Farrier]

Doretta had fallen in love with the best kind of person, a New Zealander. Hayden had moved from New Zealand to the US 26 years ago. And like her, he'd also been married before.

[D]

And then we had a little chit chat and then, you know, the party was in the back room of the pub and then I was like trying to get the courage. I'm like, okay, should I go and talk to her? Am I ready to perhaps have another relationship? But yes. My first impressions were like, wow, yeah, stunning, beautiful.

[David Farrier]

That was two years ago now and they're still going strong. And Hayden, he isn't just a New Zealander, he's a farrier. And just for people listening that have no idea what a farrier does, what does a farrier do?

[D]

So we basically every four to six weeks we go to a barn and we basically maintain horses feet. So we trim them so you can have a horse that's either considered a barefoot. Just like we would cut our fingernails or our toenails, we basically are doing the same to, to a horse or if a horse needs shoes, we basically do the same thing where we trim the foot, we take a shoe, we shape the shoe up in order to fit the foot, we nail it on, and then of course we clench the nails and dress the feet up. And so anywhere from four, six to eight weeks is the usual shoeing, trimming cycle with horses.

[David Farrier]

And where are most of the farriers, would you say? In the United States? Where are they mostly working all over or all over the States, mate.

[D]

Yeah, where I live here in Maryland, it's very horse country. So we have a lot of horse industry here in Maryland. Pretty much right up the coast you got a lot into New Jersey, down obviously Florida, Wellington, Ocala, which is where the big horse shows are during the winter months.

[David Farrier]

It's nice to be talking to a current real life farrier. As for me, I've let the family name down, abandoning horses for podcasting. Kind of like how Derrida's great great grandfather abandoned Hershey's chocolate. I'm trying to smoothly transition back to talking about chocolate again because there's something else you need to know about Hayden. He also has chocolate in his past. Back when he was just nine years old living in New Zealand, he had starred in one of the biggest New Zealand advertisements ever made. In the late 80s and early 90s, he was the face of New Zealand's most well known chocolate campaign, for a white chocolate called the Milky Bar. And Hayden was cast as the Milky Bar kid. This blonde child dressed up as a cowboy who'd ride into town on a horse, defeat the bad guy and liberate creamy white chocolate for everyone in the town. These ads were and still are deeply ingrained in New Zealand culture.

[Rob]

The Milky Bar kit is strong and.

[David Farrier]

Tough, and only the best is good enough.

[Rob]

The creamiest milk, the whitest bar, the.

[David Farrier]

Good taste that's in Milky Bar.

[Doretta Hess]

The Milky Bars are on me.

[David Farrier]

Milky Bar so clean. You like this ain't Milky Bar now, Dorita. When, when did you understand that Hayden is, you know, one of, technically is one of New Zealand's most well known, well known sort of people. When did you understand this?

[Doretta Hess]

So, I mean, he told me about it within, you know, the first week or so of us meeting. And I had, I'm sorry, I had never heard of Milky Bar before because I haven't seen enough of the world. And, and so, you know, like, I got from him that it was probably a pretty big deal, but I did not understand how big of a deal that was until, well, first I started telling my friend who had lived in the UK for a while, and she was like, oh, that's huge. And then when he started to show me like the scrapbooks that his mom had put together, like of him being in magazines and his, his, all the, the travel he did, and I think there was a fan club, like there was an article when he retired and I was like, okay, this is a pretty big deal.

[David Farrier]

It was a huge deal. If you were alive in New Zealand in the 90s the Milky Bar Kid ads were everywhere.

[D]

You can see what kind of dilemma I'm in though, mate, is like, I promoted a white chocolate. Now I'm dating a girl that comes from the dark chocolate side. Like, what do I do?

[David Farrier]

You can't write that stuff right.

[Doretta Hess]

And we were definitely giggling about the Hershey's comments during the candy episode.

[David Farrier]

Technically, Milky bars are an Nestle thing. A chocolate launched in Switzerland in 1937, which eventually made its way to other countries, including New Zealand. The Milky Bar Kid character was invented in 1961, first as a cartoon, but it was in New Zealand that he'd been personified, made flesh by Hayden. After the campaign came out, he'd travel the country during the school holidays, making live appearances in malls. His catchphrase imprinted into the brain of nearly every New Zealander.

[Doretta Hess]

The Milky Bars are on me.

[D]

I think there was five and a half thousand, six thousand kids that auditioned for this. So you would sit there and then somebody would come out and they'd be like, you know, Hayden, Hayden, Luke. And you know, you'd go on and they got you dressed up in like a little cowboy outfit. And they were basically saying, okay, if you can imagine that there's a chest of gold in front of you, we just want you to pull the gun out, shoot the chest and hold the gun up in the air and say, the Milky Bars are on me. And that was basically it for the audition. And then I was down in Oamaru spending time with my, my family over Christmas that when I got the phone call to say that, you know, we've gone through them all and we'd like you to be the Milky Bar Kids. So yeah, it sort of blew me out of the water really because I had no experience prior to that being 37 years ago. It still baffles me that it's still a big thing.

[David Farrier]

Now he lives in America and when he's out working with horses as a farrier, he's dressed not too dissimilar to how the Milky Bar Kid dressed. He still got the original outfit from when he was nine, by the way, but it's back in New Zealand. It never made it to America. Do you still have the Milky Bar outfit from the ad? Did you keep any of the stuff?

[D]

I do, I do actually. It's at my, my parents house only because I'm afraid that the, the holster and my gun and things will be taken off me if I should go through the tsa.

[David Farrier]

Oh, because your tiny holster. Yeah.

[D]

Oh, it'll be barely. Sorry It'll be barely able to wrap around my thigh. That's how small it is around my waist. But the bullets on the actual belt are actually fired rounds that were put back together, and so they look like they legit.

[David Farrier]

They look like a bullet that hasn't been fired. It's not just a shell, correct? Yes.

[D]

So they're gonna confiscate it as soon as they should. See that in my back in my bag, you know, so. Yes, but I have my little. My little vest, the hat, the glasses, the scarf. You know, it was a very primitive outfit.

[David Farrier]

So every year, Hayden goes back to New Zealand to visit his old gun, bullets, vest, hats, glasses, and scarf. He also allegedly goes there to visit his family, too. And last year, Derretta joined him for the first time.

[Doretta Hess]

It was our one year anniversary, and I went home with him, met his family, and it was. It was amazing. We. Not only did I meet, you know, like, dad, sister, grandpa, I met uncles, aunts. We traveled all around, and I got to see the beauty of New Zealand and meet some. Some great family, so. And cousins. Yeah, it was great, and it was really good because I got to meet his grandfather before he passed away this year, so.

[David Farrier]

Oh, beautiful. That's really special. Her visit down under also made her understand things about her new partner that she'd never really understood before.

[Doretta Hess]

So Hayden always says, I'm gonna go to the toilet. You know, we hear typically say, I'm gonna use the restroom. And I. It kind of hit me why he says that. Because some of the New Zealand homes, the toilet is not in the powder room. Like, it's not in the rest of the bathroom. So it's down the. Maybe down the hall by itself. And so I was like, oh, that's why you say, I'm gonna go to the toilet. It's literally just the toilet.

[David Farrier]

She also had her first ever taste of a milky bar, a chocolate you can't easily get in America. Tell me about your first milky bar experience. Because it's a sweet chocolate. It's a sweet white choc.

[Doretta Hess]

Yep, it is. It is. It was. It was lovely. I am not normally a white chocolate fan, but it is really, really good. Like, it's sweet, but it's also creamy and just really delicious.

[David Farrier]

Right now, Doretta and Hayden are planning their second trip to New Zealand. I'm really glad they got in touch with our little podcast. I really like the fact that somehow an American and a New Zealander gave each other a second shot at love. I love that one of them happened to have a history with a creamy white chocolate, the other with a brown chocolate that tastes a bit like vomit. And I like the idea that a New Zealander who played a cowboy riding around on a horse, pretending to be in America's Old west when he was just nine years old found himself decades later living in America, working with horses for real. And that answered all my questions. Bar one, what chocolate? They preferred milky bars or something of the Hershey's variety. They refused to answer me, and maybe for the sake of their relationship, that's for the best. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Grow Therapy. Now I'm sure you've thought or you've heard someone else say therapy is just way too expensive. Very valid. It used to be the end of the conversation. But what if therapy didn't have to be With Grow Therapy, Care is designed to be affordable, insurance, friendly and easy to understand. No subscriptions, just support that fits your life and your budget. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 10th or your 20th or whatever, grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the US offering both virtual and in person sessions if that's what you want, nights and weekends. And you can search by what matters to you like your insurance, specialty, identity or availability, and get started in as little as two days. And if something comes up, you can Cancel up to 24 hours in advance at no cost to you. No subscriptions, no long term commitments, you just pay per session that you have. Grow helps you find therapy on your time I've found therapy incredibly valuable in my life, especially since being in the United States where I feel it's more part of the culture here. But wherever you are in the world, therapy can be a really good thing. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com bird today to get started. That's growththerapy.com bird growththerapy.com bird availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[Doretta Hess]

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[David Farrier]

My mouth is so sore.

[Rob]

You salivating? I'm salivating about milky bar.

[David Farrier]

I just had a lot of Coles matcha drink because I thought that would. But it's made me very. I got a lot of milky salivary kind of stuff going on right now. I'm sure people love knowing this about the inside of my mouth. It's actually one part you never want to know about the inside of a body. Like the inside of a mouth. The inside of anything, right? No. No. So I'm going to stop talking about it.

[Rob]

Yeah, please do.

[David Farrier]

What a sweet story about an American woman, a New Zealand man, one from the world, a history of dark chocolate. The other white chocolate. They found each other and they had a second shot at love. Isn't it nice?

[Rob]

It's very nice.

[David Farrier]

It's so nice. It's a ray of light. We need questions.

[Rob]

Thoughts, questions, questions. Caramel or chocolate for you?

[David Farrier]

Oh, my dad, Alastafaria is a caramel man. I am a chalk man all the way. I have to not buy chocolate at the supermarket because if I have a block at home, I'll just eat the whole thing. Like, I can't stop eating and so I have to be really careful.

[Rob]

Yeah, every time you go to New Zealand, you come back with so much chocolate, too.

[David Farrier]

Oh, I bring that. Whitakers is our main brand and I bring back a ton of it. And I have to make sure I give it away to friends almost immediately because if it's just sitting in my house, I'll be like, oh, maybe I a little bite.

[Rob]

So do you buy it with the intent of I want to give it to people or you buy it selfishly.

[David Farrier]

And then it's no intent of giving it, but then the selfishness takes over.

[Rob]

And then you end up not.

[David Farrier]

And I end up eating a hell of a lot of it. And that's really, really bad.

[Rob]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I love chocolate. I'm not against caramel. For me, my perfect chocolate. I do like a mint choc, but there's some mint involved.

[Rob]

I like a mint chocolate.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, the best. Put some nuts in there. I'm pretty happy. I like some texture to be able to chew a little bit. But again, the white shock pretty great. Not against it.

[Rob]

And then he was a farrier.

[David Farrier]

He's a farrier.

[Rob]

Any relation to you?

[David Farrier]

No, I looked into it. No, no name, just by trade.

[Rob]

Is that where your name came from though?

[David Farrier]

Yeah. So my relatives in the uk my dad is from the UK and back in his family tree we would. My dad's a veterinarian but back in the day relatives would shoe horses. We would make sure that shoes have great looking feet but so that means.

[Rob]

Your name was just your ancestors occupation.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, that's what a farrier is.

[Rob]

Yeah but they take that name like you don't have a family name then. It was just a family name. David Docter. Like one.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, no good point.

[Rob]

Or they were the first farriers and farriers were named after your family?

[David Farrier]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Rob]

I don't think that's.

[David Farrier]

I mean I quite like having a surname that like says something you're professional like what we do. I think that's kind of cool.

[Rob]

I love voices old timey but it also feels like it pigeonholes you a little bit.

[David Farrier]

Well look out. A broken free from the fair name. You know as I said when I was a kid I was into horses for a while. There was a variable in my life where I could have got back into Fairy Ring but.

[Rob]

And work and worked with Hayden Fairy.

[David Farrier]

And worked with Aiden. It got confusing actually in that doc when Hayden did come into the story because I was like uhoh, people going to think this is my Hayden Donnell. Yeah but no, this is a different Hayden.

[Rob]

It's Hayden Farrier. The Milky Boy kid.

[David Farrier]

Exactly.

[Rob]

But his last name's not Farrier, he's just a farrier.

[David Farrier]

He's just a farrier. Yeah, it gets a bit. There's a lot, I know there's a lot going on in the episode. I was trying to link a lot of things together. American, New Zealand cowboys, farriers by also just throwing confusing. You know I'm not. This is not helping the clarity of this episode but not talking to him I just, I was, I was sort of thinking. We actually had someone email in a couple of weeks ago saying please do an episode on American farriers because as a profession here apparently one interesting thing is it's kind of unregulated. Like you don't train to be a farrier and get a qualification so in America you're born into it out there there's like really good ones but then there's also rogue farriers that are doing like ripping people off. So apparently that's a topic we could dive into even more.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Farrier]

Starring the milky market.

[Rob]

And then last thing you mentioned there was A fan club for him as a nine year old?

[David Farrier]

Yes. The weird. The idea of having a fan club. You would hope that all the members also kids.

[Rob]

I would hope so, yeah.

[David Farrier]

If you're. If you, if you met someone and they're in their, like 30s and 40s, and they're like, are you a member of this club? What club? Milky Bar. Kid Club Red Flag, immediately. Yeah. Terrible. But he was. He was like a celebrity. Like, he'd go into malls and on school holidays and people would turn up to see him, like, deliver his signature line. He had a little cowboy outfit on. He was like, very, like, nerdy. He had like little sunglasses. If you watch the video on YouTube or Patreon, you'll see but he's little nerdy, skinny white kid. That was his whole thing.

[Rob]

Did you get into his finances at all? Like, it was.

[David Farrier]

Oh, no, I did. No, I said was he.

[Rob]

Did he set it up for. Did it set him up for life?

[David Farrier]

He did not set him up for life. Apparently at the time, I can't remember the exact amount, but it wasn't amazing. It was like 10 grand or something.

[Rob]

Cause the advertising industry is also probably different in New Zealand than it is in America, I imagine.

[David Farrier]

So he got paid a decent amount. It's not like he. He got paid only in Milky Bars. No, he. It's not like he got. When the ad went well, he got extra. It was like a flat fee.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

His parents put it in a savings account for him, locked it away. It was fine.

[Rob]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

But it's not like he is. He still needs to work today. He didn't retire on his laurels. On Milky back and.

[Rob]

Yeah. Which I would imagine most people starting in commercials, it's not setting them up for life. But you do, you do see, though, like, flow, I think, flow. And like Milana from the Verizon commercials.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Like, I think they get set up, like, for life pretty well. Not, I don't know for life, but to be the spokes people for these.

[David Farrier]

Brands, which, as we talked about in the Subway episode, is quite. For a brand to bank all your image on one, like a person is a risk.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Because like, Subway did that with Jared and that went badly for them. But no, of course, if you're that front person, you get paid a ton of money.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Which then, yeah, it's like a side dish of that. I am surprised sometimes by when I see people that are celebrities in America that sort of their career's over and you sometimes see them having to do fundraisers for cancer treatment. And things like that. And I am sometimes amazed at and reminded of how. Well, yeah, even if you made a shit ton of money back in the day, like, you're not set up for life in this country necessarily. And if you don't have good health care, you can ultimately get screwed over still. Like, I believe I might, I might be talking about my ass here, but I think there's some fundraisers being done at the moment for James Van Der Beek from Dawson's Creek, who has, I believe, cancer. And the fact that people are having to fundraise for him. In my mind, I'd be like, Dawson, you're set for life. Yeah, yeah, not the case at all. Like, it's rough here.

[Rob]

Well, and then there's also the side of it too, where I think more and more recently celebrities going into the advertising space is no longer as taboo. Like, I don't, I don't think back in the day you would have seen Daniel Day Lewis doing a toothbrush commercial.

[David Farrier]

No, it's mad. I mean, it used to be that celebrities would go to places like Japan and get their big payday somewhere else entirely, whereas now the.

[Rob]

It's not like Reynolds doing a mobile.

[David Farrier]

Which is why. Which is wild to. When I look at that, I'm like looking at the level of celebrity, like, you definitely don't have to do it. Like you have so much money. Why you. It just comes down to greed. Like you just want more money.

[Rob]

Yeah, I think, I think they make more money doing that. But is it greed or then allows them. It is a little bit.

[David Farrier]

It's all 100.

[Rob]

But I do think it also allows them to then focus on things in their career that they want. If they like, I. I have best case scenario.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, they can go and make like an indie film or something. Or do something with that money.

[Rob]

Yes.

[David Farrier]

Mostly it's like for another extension on the house or something, you know, Look, I've been so hectic in Minnesota. I haven't gone through the feedback. I would like to say that the die versus dice, which I kind of really set myself up for a fall there, got a lot of emails clarifying. Dice is the plural of dying. So I just want to point that out.

[Rob]

When something's very easily searchable.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

We should probably just stop search it and correct it.

[David Farrier]

I should take my own advice, you're saying, and Google it as opposed to saying to our audience, I don't know this fact. Can you please email in that?

[Rob]

Or I don't know this fact, but let's speculate without looking it up and just guess what it is.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, not a great approach. I've learned my lesson, Jason. Thank you for anyone that wrote in. Thank you for everyone that wrote in clarifying that Jason wrote in in regards to our Dungeons and Dragons episode. It brought back a lot of fond memories. I played that in many other role playing games in junior high and early high school, just about every weekend late into the night in the mid-90s. Other games were set in the cyberpunk worlds, the Star wars universe, a world with vampires and werewolves and fairies, even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, where I was a mutated kangaroo. One friend's girlfriend at the time was very, very disapproving. She was part of a church group that called DND Satanic. She also claimed that Disney movies were satanic because they encourage dark magic. Think Ursula in the Little Mermaid and Jafar in Aladdin. Although you may want to know about another element of the Satanic panic. D was also targeted by chick tracks, little comics that warned of the evils of many things like rock music, Halloween and other relig. You name it. These tracts might make a good episode. And I agree with Jason on that. I've had some of these handed to me while I've been in America this time around. These little cartoon tracks, they're sort of folded up. You like, open up the paper and it tells a story of how Satan will get you. Have you seen these things? I've had them handed to me on Hollywood Boulevard around the Walk of fame and all that stuff. And they have apparently a really interesting history. So I'm going to look into that. And finally, a lot of people still write in about banana pudding with various recipes. We will do a banana pudding episode. Banana pudding episode. And I would like to say thanks to everyone who has taken our prompt and has delivered ideas for flights of fancy. Appreciate that. We've got a lot of people that have written into flightless breadchatmail.com about various cults they're involved in, and also amazing suggestions for history teachers of every persuasion available. So thank you so much for those.

[Rob]

Which I think keep all of those coming. For flights of Fancy, it's bit ly fbfancy.

[David Farrier]

There was one submission that someone made. You texted it to me and I grinned. I was like, this is the dream submission. So good.

[Rob]

And then history teacher. You are a history teacher. You know, a history teacher. Male, female.

[David Farrier]

Yes, we'll take any history as long as you know your shit. We want you.

[Rob]

And the dream is like that dynamic, fun, energetic history teacher. You had as a kid that made history fun. We want to do some episodes on specific historic moments in American history.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I want to. I need to know these things, and I just want to be able to tap into someone for moments instead of reading a Wikipedia page.

[Rob]

Exactly. It would be nice to have an authority on certain topics. And then lastly, if you escaped a cult, know someone that escaped a cult, maybe ran a cult.

[David Farrier]

If you're still in the cult, still in the cult and you're a little bit on the edge and you're like, I would love to talk about this with two podcasters on a podcast called Fly the Spirit.

[Rob]

Yeah, I would say we've already covered Mormon, yes. Scientology, yes. But really, anything outside of that, we've done enough Christian stuff, too. So outside of those three, we want to be, we want to learn more niche cults. Like there were. There's some in Chicago that I remember.

[David Farrier]

Like, I mean, America has more cults than most countries and I want to learn about them. And yeah, as always, any feedback flight the spread chat gmail.com Again, this episode, you're listening to this. It came out on a Tuesday. On Thursday over on Patreon, we'll be discussing the ice goons and Minneapolis a little bit more in depth. That episode will be completely free and unpaywalled. And yeah, we're getting scarily close to having enough members on Patreon where we reach our reward of flying Roosevelt over kicking and screaming to the United States of America. So I'm particularly excited about that. Yeah, we'll see you soon.

[Rob]

See you next time.