The Parasocial Listener

Summary

Flightless Bird: "The Parasocial Listener"

Podcast: Flightless Bird
Host: David Farrier
Cohost: Rob
Date: December 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This heartfelt and deeply introspective episode explores the phenomenon of parasocial relationships—one-sided connections people feel toward public figures, especially in podcasting—and uses the compelling, personal story of a listener named Nick to reflect on the power, intimacy, and unexpected impact of these connections. Through Nick’s journey—marked by serious illness, community support, and the flightless bird podcast itself—David, Rob, and their guests grapple with questions about friendship, vulnerability, and what it means to matter to (and be shaped by) an audience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parasocial Relationships: Banter, Benefits, and Boundaries

• Opening reflections: The hosts muse on the past year and the upcoming break, using playful banter to introduce the main theme.
• Rosabelle’s expertise: Rosabelle, a recurring guest, discusses her research into parasocial relationships and their ability to alleviate loneliness.
  • "[Parasocial relationships] do actually alleviate people's sense of loneliness." — Rosabelle [02:15]
• Show self-awareness: David and Rob joke about their own semi-parasocial on-air friendship, with Rosabelle questioning, "Do I really know the real you?" [01:43]
• The host as subject: David considers making future episodes more personally revealing to intensify listeners’ perceived intimacy.

2. Nick’s Story: Illness, Resilience, and Community

• Introduction: David reads Nick’s email, which blends gratitude for the podcast with references to the intense parasocial bonds listeners may feel.
• Nick's journey:
  • Collapsed during a work meeting; diagnosed with an exceptionally rare, aggressive brain tumor (APXA - Anaplastic Pleomorphic Xanthoastrocytoma) [33:01].
  • Undergoes two major brain surgeries, plus chemotherapy and radiation.
  • Experiences profound changes in memory, emotion, and personality due to tumor location and resections.
• Perspective and acceptance: Despite the terminal diagnosis, Nick displays a remarkable ability to accept the situation, attributing this partly to a supportive community and changes in emotional regulation after removal of parts of his brain (notably the amygdala/fear center).
  • "My emotions are very hard to control... It's just another side effect. It's emotional regulation. So just even the slightest thing can just send me, which is kind of a gift." — Nick [38:22]
  • “They took out my amygdala, which processes fear... and it's gone, which is very trippy.” — Nick [39:11]
• Community support: Details the "Friendship Paddle"—Santa Barbara locals paddling 30 miles for those with life-threatening illnesses—a tangible example of communal empathy and action.
  • “They do this every year... and just the simple act of bringing us out into the water and paddling for us, it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to me.” — Nick [41:44]
• Everyday gratitude: Nick describes finding joy and worth in mundane daily interactions (like visits to the pharmacy), underscoring the show’s recurring theme: meaningful moments aren’t always dramatic.
  • "I started talking to the pharmacists, and they recognized me, and I was like, oh, this is the best part of my day when I get to talk to these people." — Nick [44:18]
• Living with recurrence: Nick shares that the tumor returned, but he’s now in a clinical trial and continues to live intentionally, focusing on presence, attention, and grace.
• On choosing adventure: Inspired by the podcast and the fundraising support, Nick plans a solo campervan trip in New Zealand.
  • "I have a camper van for two weeks in New Zealand in February." — Nick [48:44]

3. Podcasting’s Unique Intimacy

• Listener-host connection: David and Rob reflect on the “realness” of podcasting compared to other media, citing their own parasocial attachments to podcasts and how hours of listening breeds familiarity:
  • "Podcasts... they’re in your ears when you're doing really personal, boring things... and it just does something different...” — David [08:05]
• Making in a vacuum: The duo remark on the weirdness of recording for an unseen audience, only discovering the show’s real impact through messages like Nick’s.
• Audience feedback: Both hosts are grateful for their highly engaged and caring listenership, which feels unusually intelligent and supportive.
  • “We both feel very lucky that anyone considers having a parasocial relationship with this show.” — Rob [15:20]

4. Memorable Moments, Humor, and Reflection

• Levity amid adversity: Despite Nick’s harrowing story, humor and warmth are present—e.g., his joking about avoiding Australia in favor of New Zealand, and David’s playful self-deprecation.
• Annual gift exchange: David and Rob share gifts, with lighthearted teasing setting a tone of camaraderie.
  • “I'm already dead on the inside, but I can still pretend...” (Rob’s T-shirt gift) [12:34]
• Podcast “sleep voice”: Jests about listeners using David’s voice as a sleep aid.
• Therapeutic themes: Frequent references to therapy, acceptance, and “storming the capital of one’s heart/psyche” [03:15], maintaining the show’s signature blend of inquiry and irreverence.

5. Follow-up, Gratitude, and Listener Feedback

• David’s reflection: The episode ends with both hosts reflecting on Nick’s singular perspective as “aspirational,” a reminder to appreciate ordinary moments and live with gratitude:
  • “How he's living is how everyone should strive to live...” — Rob [56:49]
  • “If he can fucking do it, I feel like we all can. Yeah. God, Nick’s a legend.” — David [60:49]
• Musical tribute: The episode closes with a track from Nick’s band, Pookie—an instrumental math rock group—serving as both tribute and call to community.
• Plans for 2026: David hints at more topics, live shows, and acknowledgment of the rich listener community.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On parasocial relationships:
  • "Do I have a parasocial relationship to you?" — Rosabelle [01:38]
  • "They do actually alleviate people's sense of loneliness." — Rosabelle [02:15]
• On podcasting’s intimacy:
  • “Podcasts…they’re in your ears when you’re just doing really personal, boring things… it just does something different…” — David [08:05]
• Resilience and outlook:
  • “I had a really intentional, like, feeling of, okay, don’t feel sorry for yourself. This could happen to anybody... It’s an opportunity, right? It’s a chance to think differently.” — Nick [35:23]
• Community:
  • “...just the simple act of bringing us out into the water and paddling for us, it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to me.” — Nick [41:44]
• On gratitude and attention:
  • "Your greatest resource was your attention... If I could put that away and just give my attention to the moment... there's some beauty in that moment." — Nick [44:18]
• On losing fear:
  • "They took out my amygdala, which processes fear... and it's gone, which is very trippy." — Nick [39:11]
• Living with vulnerability:
  • “Most people when they're talking about personal shit, have this fucking—I certainly do—wall up that you're talking through. And his was just no wall whatsoever. It's like raw emotion conversation.” — David [56:28]
• Aspirational closing:
  • “If he can fucking do it, like, I feel like we all can. Yeah. God, Nick’s a legend.” — David [60:50]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:04–03:42 — Reflective opening; What have we learned? & Introduction to episode theme
• 04:25–06:49 — Reading Nick’s email; introduction to his story and the idea of parasociality
• 07:15–13:38 — Podcast hosts riff on parasocial connections with listeners and each other
• 18:57–54:00 — In-depth interview with Nick: diagnosis, treatment, emotions, daily life, and community
• 54:03–61:00 — Post-interview debrief: David & Rob on perspective, fear, and gratitude
• 61:00–80:00 — Listener feedback: Survivor trivia, phobias, and language quirks; humor and community

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Conclusion

This episode of Flightless Bird offers a moving meditation on the real influence podcasts can have in listeners’ lives and vice versa. By weaving together expert commentary, personal stories, and honest self-reflection—from existential friendship questions to Nick’s journey with mortality—the episode exemplifies why the parasocial bond matters and can be, as David says, “fucking great.” Nick’s optimism in the face of daunting odds serves as inspiration, reinforcing the show’s promise: there’s solace, meaning, and even joy in unexpected connections, both online and off.

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For updates on Nick’s New Zealand trip, his bands (Uncle Uncle & Pookie), and more, see the show notes and follow Flightless Bird into 2026.

Transcript

[Nick]

Hello.

[David Farrier]

Hi, Rizabel. How are you?

[Rosabelle]

Hi, David. I'm good. How are you?

[David Farrier]

I'm good. I've got some big news. This is going to be the last flightless bird of 2025, because we're having a couple of weeks off.

[Nick]

Oh, my gosh.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. How do you. How do you feel about that?

[Rosabelle]

What a year it's been.

[David Farrier]

What a year. What have you learned? What have we learned? Have we learned anything?

[Rosabelle]

We've learned so much. I've learned.

[Nick]

About.

[Rosabelle]

That Mexican chain store that I've already forgotten the name of.

[David Farrier]

Chipotle.

[Rosabelle]

Chipotle. I was like, jalapeno.

[David Farrier]

Close. Okay, that's one thing. What else have you learned? Has flightless bird taught you anything else?

[Rosabelle]

I'm sure it has, but at the moment, I couldn't really say. But if, you know, if it was. If I had to write a eulogy, I would have some things to say for sure.

[David Farrier]

Okay, well, we're not. The show's not going away. It's just going on holiday. It's not a eulogy. We're actually. We're coming back on January 6th, which is obviously very important day in America. It's Capital Riots Day. We like to honor. We like to honor that wonderful day by returning on January 6th.

[Nick]

That's great.

[Rosabelle]

That's good. To acknowledge your history.

[David Farrier]

I had another question for you, and it relates back to today's topic. We're looking at a parasocial podcast listener who. And I was thinking about this because I was wondering, you know, as I've gotten much more famous and I'm quite a big deal now here in America and sort of worldwide, do you feel our relationship has become a bit more parasocial?

[Rosabelle]

Like, do I have a parasocial relationship to you?

[David Farrier]

That's what I was angling at. Yeah.

[Rosabelle]

Okay. I suppose I've always felt that, you know, do I really know the real you? Are you just calling and recording our conversations for money? And actually, do we even have a real friendship?

[David Farrier]

Yeah. And if we don't anymore, when did that real friendship stop?

[Rosabelle]

Or when did it start?

[David Farrier]

And what was that real friendship? And was the real one better than this? Whatever we've got now?

[Rosabelle]

I did my masters sort of in parasocial relationships.

[David Farrier]

Oh, incredible. What. What did you sort of take away from that?

[Rosabelle]

I did my master's on the psychological benefits of fiction, and parasocial relationships was an element of that and the way in which the. They do actually alleviate people's sense of loneliness.

[David Farrier]

Oh, that's so nice. So, I mean, it's interesting because in this episode, I'm sort of gonna argue for the parasocial relationship a little bit. So that fits in quite nicely, I guess.

[Rosabelle]

The thing is, like, I don't know if I ever learn anything new about you when I listen to the podcast. So if anything, it's.

[David Farrier]

That's interesting. I mean, you're not really meant to be learning about me. You're meant to be learning about America, aren't you?

[Rosabelle]

I feel like people do want to learn about you. They're. They're interested in you.

[David Farrier]

Do you think maybe in. In. In 2026, when the podcast comes back January 6th, maybe I sort of, sort of make the show more about sort of. Maybe there's a section where I give away something about myself. Something. Something private that. That would increase the parasocial listeners, wouldn't it?

[Rosabelle]

Maybe, yeah. In honor of January 6th, you could storm your own capital, your own heart.

[David Farrier]

Oh, storm my own capital, my own psyche. I feel that's something my therapist is trying to get me to do, to sort of address me, but I'm always trying to distract him with other things, you know?

[Rosabelle]

Yeah, that's a classic trick. But we should maybe. Maybe next year a new feature could be. You could share a five minute snippet from your therapy sessions.

[David Farrier]

Or should I share a five minute conversation we have outside of this podcast?

[Rosabelle]

No, that's. That's absolutely never going to happen.

[David Farrier]

Wow. Okay. Rosabelle, I'd also like to say thank you so much for accepting my calls all year. You know, every couple of weeks I call you and I've got a topic, and you always give such a delightful, sometimes insightful answer.

[Rosabelle]

I guess the thing is, often I think you're calling me for friendship, and then it's not until I pick up that I realize it's not a friendship situation.

[David Farrier]

And that sort of brings us back to our sort of original thing, isn't it? Of what is. What even is this? What is this? Friendship? What is it? What the. What the hell is this? What is it?

[Rosabelle]

Actually, what is it?

[David Farrier]

Okay, I gotta go. Bye. What? I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, thanks to you wonderful people who listen to this podcast, we get a lot of really interesting emails to flightless bird chat, gmail.com. there are some real duds, too, but most of them are really, really good. And some of them end up being really, really, really, really great. Like this one, which landed in our inbox at 12:15pm on Nov 19 sorry in advance, but this is a long one. If you have the patience to make it through, I applaud and thank you dearly. Anyway, I'm writing not just to thank you for what you do, but to also tell you a little bit about how you've inspired me. First, though, I wonder if you've ever thought about the well documented but nonetheless surprising parasocial phenomenon and of how your listeners inevitably begin to feel as though they have a close personal relationship with you. I swear I'm not delusional enough to believe that's true, but I just think it's amusing to recognize this funny thing and hoped it would make you smile to think about all the people out there who feel like they have a personal friendship with you. And Rob, after countless hours of listening to your stories, onto my point. I've been listening for years, ever since you started. About 20 months ago, I was up in Mammoth Lakes, California and I collapsed seemingly out of the blue. Two surgeries and plenty of other treatments. I'm a very different person now. I'm finding ways to experience joy and David and Rob, you've helped me do that by inspiring me to do something I would never have done before now. That email from a listener called Nick was a really, really good email. I was intrigued. And parasocial or not, I wanted to find out more because I feel like America kind of gave birth to the whole parasocial thing in a way, with its reality TV and social media platform and a variety of other things. So get ready to listen to your favorite podcast, email the hosts and see if they email back, because this is the parasocial listening episode.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Nick]

Fly this fly List Flightless bird Touchdown in America I'm a flightless bird touchdown.

[David Farrier]

In America Rob, you've been doing this podcasting thing for way longer than me and I feel like the parasocial thing you're probably very familiar with. I mean, I've been out to you. I know you as Rob. I can go. I go out with you and people are like wobbly Rob. Oh God. You know so, like, you've been having this for a very long time as well.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Mine's.

[Rob]

Though, it's not. I'm much more behind the scenes, so.

[David Farrier]

It'S not a. Yeah, you sneak in. You sneak in from the edges.

[Rob]

I prefer. But I mean, it is always nice when someone.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Like, the thing is, if they know who I am from a podcast, that means they are really into the podcast.

[David Farrier]

It's a positive thing.

[Rob]

They were. If they've gotten deep enough to know that I exist in this.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. It means they're a fan of what you're involved in, basically.

[Rob]

Which. That's. That's the cool thing about parasocial relationships is you're not a character. You're. You're yourself completely.

[David Farrier]

It's funny because I've. I have it. And I think podcast. We've spoken about this before, but podcasts, I think, are really special in that I have parasocial relationships. With podcasts, I listen to. There's this podcast about movies called the Film Cast, and I've been listening to it for probably 15 years, maybe close to 20. And I feel like I know those hosts. Yeah. Like, I know who. About their families, I know about their lives. I know what they're into. I've been lucky enough to become friends with Dave, who's on that show. He was in our Forrest Gump episode about bubblegum shrimp and. Yeah, so I get it. And it's that whole thing of just. I think podcasts, like radio as well, before it, they're in your ears when you're just doing really personal, boring things, like you're having a shower or you're vacuuming or you're in the car and you've got these fucking people talking. And it just does something different to watching a TV show or a movie or a musician or anything else like that, which are also parasocial. But podcasts just feel so much more, I think, genuine.

[Rob]

Well, it's because they're themselves. When you're watching someone on a TV show, they're playing a character. You don't know that that's what.

[David Farrier]

That's not real.

[Rob]

You don't know what they're normally like in most cases, completely the ticks of that person and their interests. But when you're listening to a podcast, like, and spending as much time as you do podcast, minimum hour. Most podcasts, like, a lot of times longer. Like, there has to be an authenticity and something genuine for you to even pump out that much content.

[David Farrier]

And you can tell very quickly when a show is being Made. That doesn't have a genuine thing in there. Like you can feel when the heart's not in it. Pretty much straight away you're like, oh, God, these two people have been thrown together and they're having to talk about this thing. And you can tell it's like there's.

[Rob]

Some fakeness between completely that.

[David Farrier]

So that up pretty quickly.

[Rob]

But that's the really great thing of that about fans of the show is they know you and they know. And yeah, they know genuine things about you.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

So it feels more meaningful.

[David Farrier]

No, I know what you mean. And it's like, it's like Roosevelt said as well when she studied this stuff. And it does. It has that really neat thing where it alleviates loneliness for a lot of people as well. And like, I have that. Like, if I'm. You talked last week about how you go to sleep to TV and stuff. Yeah, I go to sleep to a lot of podcasts. And it is that thing of like, it's like I live alone and so it's like it's company. And that sounds kind of sad, but it's also true. And I really like that I have that.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

You know.

[Rob]

You know what we should do that gives me an idea for Patreon. We should record just you talking to someone as they're falling asleep that we can loop into a good, like six hour thing of just ramblings from David. But you get to do it, like, kind of soft.

[David Farrier]

I've been told there has been some feedback that, like, my voice does send people off to sleep.

[Rob]

I got. I got that feedback from a friend last week about the black shiny FBI shoes episode.

[Nick]

Right.

[Rob]

That she fell asleep.

[David Farrier]

Well, no, I think you have a nice voice. It's just like regular and it's rhythmic and I think it is relaxing. I mean, I'm often falling asleep around you when you're talking to me about sports and things like that.

[Rob]

Well, before we get too far into this, you got to open. You've got to open your holiday gift, your Christmas gift.

[David Farrier]

Oh, God.

[Rob]

Because I. I think you need to use it for this episode.

[David Farrier]

Okay. I also see you've got some of your classic beautiful Christmas cookies there.

[Rob]

I made some cookies, which I've had.

[David Farrier]

For many years in a row now. Beautiful paper. Hail Satan. Nope, Santa. Hail.

[Rob]

No, I mean, it's hell Santa. It's just.

[David Farrier]

It's really good. Oh, with a pentagram. Yep. Candy canes. It's all coming together. It takes me a while to pick up on all these things I hate. I've Been taught not to tear paper from a young child because you can sometimes reuse it.

[Rob]

No, you're not going to reuse this.

[David Farrier]

I'm going to reuse this. Rob, you always give good presents. Okay. It's a T shirt. Ha. For anyone not watching and listening. What does this say, Rob?

[Rob]

Yes. I'm already dead on the inside, but I can still pretend with a picture of opossum.

[David Farrier]

A beautiful rendering of an opossum.

[Rob]

It's a Motion City soundtrack. So on theme with Emo this year.

[David Farrier]

I love the T shirt.

[Rob]

I saw this T shirt at their concert and this is what I think you need to wear for this episode.

[David Farrier]

Costume change. This is a Christmas sweater. It's beautifully. It's a Christmas vest. In fact, very specific. A vest.

[Rob]

Yeah, it came sweater, but I was.

[David Farrier]

Like, what, are your arms overheating but your body's cold?

[Rob]

It's la. You don't need a sweater.

[David Farrier]

Has Jesus on here. On it says, birthday boy. Rob, how the hell do you find this?

[Rob]

But you're a birthday boy, too.

[David Farrier]

I am. Christmas Day. It's really beautiful, Rob. Thank you so much. I'm going to put this on. Disaster glass has already fallen off. Yeah, I've been having this. I've been having this problem where my arms have been getting really hot, but my body's been like, very cold. And so now this problem is.

[Rob]

Yeah, it's perfect.

[David Farrier]

Solved.

[Rob]

Birthday boy.

[David Farrier]

It's a great size as well. And Rob, thank you for remembering. You always remember my birthday. I've often talked about the. The trauma of me growing up. Friends, family, giving me one present and saying, this is bigger because it's both. It's Christmas and birthday, which is, of course, utter hogshit.

[Rob]

I mean, that's what I did.

[David Farrier]

Well, I got two things, though. Look at this. I got a beautiful sweater, a beautiful T shirt. I haven't wrapped it, but I got this for you. So I got this on my flightless bird travels. It was.

[Rob]

You do have wrapping paper that you say everywhere.

[David Farrier]

I got this on my travels. I believe it was somewhere in the middle of America that I got this in a gas station. And I know you have been working on your house a little bit, and I know that you love putting things up on the wall. And I was thinking, you're an American and this could be sort of a feature thing on maybe in the lounge or maybe the bedroom, see what Natalie thinks. And I just thought that could really.

[Rob]

Yeah. Two things every American should know how to use. Neither of which are taught in schools.

[David Farrier]

Okay.

[Rob]

It's got a Bible gun and a.

[David Farrier]

Bible and a handgun. So, yeah, that's my. I mean, inferior to your gifts. But I also think.

[Rob]

I think this also is pretty fitting. We just leave.

[David Farrier]

What you're saying you don't want it in your house at all? You're saying you don't want to take it home? What the hell? Okay. So, yeah, you know, with a lot of emails over the last year. Thank you for all of them that you've seen in. They genuinely continue to sort of blow my mind. I feel like I learn so much from them.

[Rob]

Yeah. I think we both feel very lucky that anyone considers have a parasocial relationship with this show. Oh.

[David Farrier]

Completely the same way. It's that sort of disbelief that people care enough to write in in the first place. And I think we're also very lucky in that our listeners, they seem like really good people. Like, we're not getting trash in our inbox.

[Rob]

Yeah. And they seem very intelligent, which is sometimes a little intimidating.

[David Farrier]

Well, yeah, it's like, holy shit, we're going to, like, lift our game.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

You know, got to stop talking garbage all the time.

[Rob]

Yeah. We can't talk about reality TV and housewives.

[David Farrier]

Yes. I'm gonna let them down. I don't. I don't know if I mentioned this, but I. I've never really been into reality tv.

[Rob]

Well, but, you know, I forget your house. I was gonna bring out your dark tourist tagline, but I. Oh, yeah, no.

[David Farrier]

Life's always dangerous when you're a dark tourist. Okay. So Nick wrote in. I was instantly intrigued by his email. He'd obviously been through some stuff. So I email, arranged a call, and we've had a few conversations. And there wasn't my intent originally, but I ended up wanting to put a whole episode together about this because I think it's just really special and kind of epitomizes sort of beyond what I'd ever imagine happening with a show like this. Just the way people what the show, how it can fit into someone's life when they've got all this other shit going on. And this little thing we make can sort of slot in and maybe have like a tiny bit of positivity. And also felt like I just learned a lot from Nick.

[Rob]

Well, I think we talk about this often. It's weird sometimes that we are. We make this alone in this little room.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

And then it just goes off onto the Internet.

[David Farrier]

It goes out every Tuesday. Womp.

[Rob]

Yeah. And just. I think there is something about making it in such a silo and in such a small little box with such a small team and like not like a TV show or anything else, like.

[David Farrier]

Huge number of people around it. It's sort of shocking in a way how fewer checks and balances there are in the process. It's like we put this thing together and it's. I mean, checks and balances can be a really good thing. But I think maybe that goes back to what makes a podcast different to other mediums, where it's not endlessly kind of poured over. It's kind of care goes into it from our little team, but it's not kind of chipped and refined by a million voices. So by the time it goes out, it's this kind of like generic thing.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

It's like it's flawed and it's not perfect and it's got ums and ahs. And I think that is part of it as well.

[Rob]

Yeah. And mistakes and things that we get yelled at about and then things that we address or do episodes about completely and.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. So I hope you enjoy this episode. We'll be back afterwards, as always, to chat, but goes without saying, thanks for listening for the last year and even longer than the year, and I'm very much excited, assuming I get back into the country after my little trip to New Zealand. Really looking forward to making more of the show. So. Yeah, this is Nick. So as I told you at the start of this episode, Nick emailed us back in November. I read out a bit of his email, but he had included a few more details that made me know he was legitimate and that his story was worth telling.

[Nick]

Like if I choke up a little talking about it. Thanks for your patience. Sometimes it's hard, but I'm pretty open. Right.

[David Farrier]

The first thing I noticed about Nick is that his emotions were pretty close to the surface, something I inherently admire because like many New Zealanders, I've been taught to keep my emotions buried down very deep. Nick is 32 and is currently based in Santa Barbara, California. California, where he's zooming me from today. And if Nick thought he was being a parasocial podcast listener and emailing Flightless Bird, I was being the self involved, narcissistic podcast host who's always making everything about himself. When did you start listening to the show?

[Nick]

Out of college. I joined a, like a technology startup and I'm an English major, so naturally I worked in software. I just found a job and was like, cool. Ended up being a really good job. I was like an early employee there, which worked out well. We sold the company I got a little bit of cash, which was like, oh, I'm doing stuff. American dream, whatever. So I found a condo in Mammoth because I love it up there. And I was able to buy this relatively cheap condo. It was kind of in shambles, needed a lot of work, and I was like, oh, you know what would be great is if I buy this place and do it myself and renovate it. I started doing that, and I worked remotely. At the time, I was working in software. I could be like this on Zoom all the time. And so I'd go up there, work remotely, start renovating. I did some demo, and I was learning on the fly, just watching YouTube videos. I had some friends that had some experience helping me out. So I was spending a lot of time just going up there, coming back, and trying to make that house work.

[David Farrier]

Nick was doing lots of driving from his place in the San Fernando Valley to the condo he was doing up.

[Nick]

So I started driving up to Mammoth Lakes up in the Sierra Nevada, like, a few hours northeast of la. And those are long drives. So I started looking for podcasts, and I think I listened to the baseball episode, Baseball or Religion or one of those two early on. I was like, oh, this is entertaining. These are fun. So, yeah, I think I've just over the last. What is that, two and a half, three years? Yeah.

[David Farrier]

In short, what drove Nick to flight this bird is what drives most people to find any podcast. Boredom. But I'm glad those boring drives to his condo helped him find us. And it was while working on that condo that Nick's story, the story I was curious about, all began while I was up there.

[Nick]

Like, I was on a trip by myself, just doing some work, working remote, and I just had a headache. Out of the blue, I was on a call like this, talking to the CEO of my company. Actually, he's like, nick, are you ready to present to me the plan for the quarter or whatever it was? And I was like, yeah. Oh, one sec. And I literally collapsed. I fell to the floor.

[David Farrier]

Was it like a sick stomach? A cracking headache? What hit you? What did it feel like?

[Nick]

I mean, we were speaking just, like, this feeling totally normal, and all of a sudden, my right eye went bloodshot, and it felt like somebody had just hit me with a bat, like a baseball bat on the side of, like, out of nowhere. It went from 0 to 100, and I fell down. I actually vomited, and I didn't know what was going on.

[David Farrier]

He knew things were bad enough that he had to excuse himself from the Zoom call. I mean, what else do you meant to do after vomiting in front of your boss? Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Aura Frames now. Holiday time, gift time going into a new year. Also, it's always a good time to get an aura frame for someone. It's my favorite gift to get anybody. I'm going to be in New Zealand very soon with my parents and I will be doing a wellness check on that or a frame which they have had sitting on the shelf now for about two years.

[Rob]

Yeah, it's great. Especially when you don't live near some of your family. Oh yeah, being able to get them this frame and when you have kids just be able to upload photos or when you're David, just selfies. Constant selfies through selfies all over LA and all the cool places here.

[David Farrier]

Here's some shade. It also looks really beautiful. It just looks like a normal little photo frame, but it also happens to be digital.

[Rob]

The other cool thing about Aura Frames is you can preload photos before it ships so they can open it up. Everything's preloaded and photos are there.

[David Farrier]

Also gift box included with no price on it. So it is actually the perfect gift. And for a limited time you can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get 35 off or as best selling car mat frames named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code bird at checkout.

[Rob]

That's a U R A frames.com promo code bird. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast so order yours now to get in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[David Farrier]

Support for Flight this bird comes from Bombus now this time of the year it's sensory load pretty much everywhere but one feeling that we're still chasing. Cozy. Simple, just cosy. And Bombus has the socks, slippers, tees and basically everything to get you there. Cozy.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

Yeah, and they're into footwear now as well. They're really stepping up their slipper and slide game this season. They've got new shapes, new styles, fluffy things, suede things, a little something for every foot. Whether your Feet are disgusting and awful or beautiful like mine. And if there's one thing that Bombas knows, it's feet.

[Rob]

And it's a great gift. So what do you get your brother's new marathon training girlfriend, Bombus? Running socks.

[David Farrier]

Oh, of course.

[Rob]

Well, what about your mom's new friend?

[Nick]

You.

[David Farrier]

You watch it. Look, our point is, Bombus has really good gifts that you can get for someone that you don't know how to shop for. Or maybe you do how to shop for them, but get them some socks at some point or maybe some slides or some slippers. Up to you.

[Rob]

Head over to bombas.combird and use code bird for 20% off your first purchase.

[David Farrier]

That's B O M B A S.com bird use code bird at checkout.

[Nick]

I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was altitude sickness. I called a friend that lives up there. I was like, hey, like, can you come by? Do you have any Excedrin or Tylenol? Like, I'm starting to eat that. And just tried to sleep for about two days and ended up driving myself thinking that, you know, that the hospitals in Mammoth are great at trauma, you know, broken bones on the mountain, that kind of thing. Wasn't sure about brains. So I came back to Santa Barbara and I went to the urgent care. Drove myself to the urgent care, which, you know, touching on health care here. I had insurance, but I have a very high deductible. I was like, if I go to the emergency room, I'm going to spend 3, $4,000, and I don't want to do that. Which in hindsight is kind of. It's not so. It's almost upsetting. It's like I was too scared to get the right care because I didn't want to pay for it.

[David Farrier]

The urgent care essentially told him, hey, it's a Saturday. We don't really do scans on weekends. So they gave him an IV bag with some fluids and told him to come back on Monday if his head still hurt. By this point, he wasn't feeling like driving at all. So he got his girlfriend to pick.

[Nick]

Him up Monday morning. The headache never really ceased. It kept going. I woke up getting ready to go to work, and my girlfriend Rebecca, she was saying, your head still hurts. I was like, yeah, it's pretty bad, but it'll go away. She goes, no, no, no, you're going into the urgent care fine. I went to the urgent care and they said, oh, you're in luck. We can do a CT scan. It's Monday. You just have to wait a little bit. Sure. But we did it that day. We did a CT scan, and this young doctor, you know, he's working at the urgent care, he's kind of like, not expecting this. He walks back into the room, and his face was like the scaredest I've ever seen. I said, that can't be good. He said, there's two things. Either you're having a stroke right now or you have a brain tumor. That's how I got that news.

[David Farrier]

He didn't really know what to think. Nick wasn't sure what he was expecting, but it wasn't that.

[Nick]

And he said, I've called an ambulance for you because you need to go to the emergency room right now. And I said, no, no, no, I'm not paying for an ambulance. That was my first reaction. So Rebecca ended up driving us. He said, you're going straight to the emergency room right now. We drove five minutes to the emergency room, and they were waiting for me. And I said, nick, come in. They put me in a wheelchair. They rolled me in, checked me in, and I was laying in a bed with an IV when this woman walks in and she goes, hynek, I'm your surgeon. That's how I found out that about 24 hours later, I would have craniotomy.

[David Farrier]

The surgeon informed Nick that he had some kind of brain tumor, and so they'd have to open up his skull to take it out. So that surgeon that walked into the room and said, I'm going to be operating on you, what was she saying? And kind of, what were you thinking? Because I feel like I've had very minor. I once had stitches in my palm and I thought I was going to die. I was like, this is the end. And I'm just wondering what it was like for you hearing this stuff.

[Nick]

I didn't think it was real. I was like, what's going on? It felt like a dream, a surreal dream, like an acid trip or something. What is going on? What did they give me?

[David Farrier]

On March 7, he had the headache and vomiting session on the work zoom call. And by March 12, he had the surgery. It went well. They got the tumor.

[Nick]

The first surgery, they had 100% resection, which was best case scenario, it was gone. It didn't appear on MRIs.

[David Farrier]

So how did it feel? Because essentially the tumor's gone. And after the first surgery, so was some of your brain.

[Nick]

How.

[David Farrier]

How did that feel? Like, how did you feel different in who you were? Or do you just feel in pain? Like, can you Talk me through that a little bit.

[Nick]

Yeah. So I. Waking up and sort of the weeks following that surgery were the most confusing, shocking times of my entire life. Like, I still don't quite feel like the same person that I was. There are a lot of strange side effects. It was kind of like feeling in this. In between of sleep and wakefulness and dream state. I didn't recognize faces. Oh, I think actually that's. You have that. Yeah, I remember face.

[David Farrier]

I do. Forever. My brain. I've got no excuse.

[Nick]

That's part of the connection here. I was like, oh, I can relate to that now. It was like listening to you and talking about that. I was like, I. I was doing this thing is kind of funny. And I'm kind of. You know, I like talking to people. I'm not shy to say something to a stranger. But I was in the grocery store and I was seeing people and I was like, hey, oh, it's me.

[David Farrier]

Remember?

[Nick]

And they're like, who the fuck is this guy? Like, I was like recognizing. It's kind of the opposite. It was where I thought I knew everyone. I was like, oh, it's you, it's you. And they're like, yeah, man. No.

[David Farrier]

Incredible. Yeah. Anti face blind. It's like you recognize everyone, but you don't know any of them.

[Nick]

It was funny.

[David Farrier]

Well, at first he couldn't drive a car for about 15 months because he was having seizures. He wouldn't lose consciousness, but he had lose motor control on the left side of his body, which was understandably pretty scary. And he'd been told that loud noises could trigger those seizures, which was a blow because he surfed a lot. Waves allowed. Seizures are bad underwater. And he played in a few bands, also loud. And Nick was aware that as well as the tumour being removed, other parts of him had been removed as well. Personality wise. And the way you kind of perceive the world, how did that feel?

[Nick]

It was in my temporal lobe, which is why it felt like that dream state, which processes kind of where you are and when you are, which is really interesting. And my memory, short term memory was just gone. I would forget why I was in a place or when I got there. And I relied. I was relying on everyone around me. Jumping right into chemotherapy and radiation also just took a physical toll on me. So I was spending a lot of time sleeping, a lot of time just laying around. I couldn't really watch TV or listen to music because it would just. It was jarring. I would have seizures. I couldn't play music for almost a year.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, the flightless bird theme song would probably fucking send you into a seizure instantly.

[Nick]

You'd have to skip that touchdown in America. Yeah. Imagine me like, you know, turning it on because I like the podcast I hear, oh, seizure. Okay.

[David Farrier]

In all of this, he was grateful I'm still alive.

[Nick]

And that's pretty amazing. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

But he was about to get some less than great news. As to what kind of tumour he had. Well, it took a while for experts to figure out what it was. They knew it was some kind of glioblastoma, a type of aggressive, fast growing brain tumor. But this one was a very specific type of glioblastoma.

[Nick]

It took almost three months to get a diagnosis of the specific tumor type. Cause it's so rare and tricky and whatever. And I have brain tissue samples at three different places around the country. Kind of cool.

[David Farrier]

One sample ended up in Maryland at the National Institute of Health. And they figured it out.

[Nick]

Yeah, I'll say it. It's called an anaplastic pleomorphic xanthoastrocytoma.

[David Farrier]

That's apxa.

[Nick]

For the rest of us, it's 15 syllables. But yeah, I did a lot of Googling and research and they're like, there's less than one case per year.

[David Farrier]

He's right. The National Library of Medicine says apxas are rare gliomas affecting just 1% of astrocytic tumours. The other thing about this type of tumor, it's rare and it's aggressive. And he realized his journey wasn't over.

[Nick]

They told me this tumor type we see less than 1 per year, like it's going to come back. That's what it does. And it's terminal. You know, they didn't say it quite like that, but that's the idea. This is going to keep coming back. So we hammered it with chemotherapy and radiation and sure enough, 12 months later it came back and started growing at a rapid rate. And we needed to do a second surgery or they gave me the choice this time at least they didn't just put me in a room and say, you're having surgery tomorrow. They said, we need to do a second surgery or, you know, it's kind of your choice. But I said, yeah, I want to keep living. So I had, I was. That time I was able to schedule it about three weeks out. And in those three weeks I was like, you know, planned a surf trip, took all my best friends. We went and had all my favorite food and I saw my family. Yeah, I was like, let's do everything.

[David Farrier]

After those three weeks were over, it was time for the inevitable, for the surgeons to get back into his skull.

[Nick]

Yeah, I had the second surgery in May.

[David Farrier]

Your thinking at that point was like, there's a potential I might not come.

[Nick]

Out of the second surgery, come out with my faculties. Like, they removed my right amygdala, which is interesting. And the second time, they removed part of my hippocampus. And I've learned a lot about brains since then.

[David Farrier]

I bet you fucking have. Well, you don't really think about them unless you have to think about them. You know, they're doing the thinking, but you're never thinking about your own brain.

[Nick]

Is the brain aware of itself? Right. That's such a question.

[David Farrier]

The second surgery was a success, but still, he knew what would happen. The tumor, at some point, it would come back.

[Nick]

I think I'm fairly optimistic person. I have been. You know, I don't know. I was always just happy. I guess I'm very fortunate. I feel like I get to do things I love to do. I get to play music. I live in a place where I can be in the ocean a lot, and I have a good community out here, which, by the way, saved my life, that community. But I think I started to hear a lot of people with, like, sympathy or pity, and it felt strange. They're like, oh, this is so not fair. Oh, why you? Right? Like, and that never sat with me. It was kind of like, well, what do you mean? Why me? Why not? Why not me? Why anybody? Right? Like, it just. I had a really intentional, like, feeling of, okay, don't feel sorry for yourself. This could happen to anybody. It happened to me, so make the most of it. It's an opportunity, right? It's a chance to think differently. And so I think the biggest impact for me was I had to stop working. Like, I just mentally and physically couldn't do it, which was a challenge financially and a lot of things. But I saw that as a chance to kind of spend time with people, spend time with my family. Like, just look at life in a way that's like, if this were going to end tomorrow, what would I hope that I could be doing? And that's sat with me every day since then.

[David Farrier]

I mean, you're in this kind of unique situation where essentially. And then you make sure I've got this straight. You kind of know this could or will come back at some point. What is your clarity on that? Because obviously, this is very rare as well. Right?

[Nick]

Everyone that has this dies from it, essentially. That's kind of the headline. So knowing that, I was like, oh, it's gone right now. And I feel good. I have to make the most of this time because it's coming back. And I would have a scan every month to check. That was sort of the protocol. And still. So it's like, okay, if that's my reality, I can accept it or not.

[David Farrier]

He chose to accept it, but says that acceptance couldn't be achieved on his own. He credits the people he had in his life, really good people.

[Nick]

The good thing is, I think I didn't have a chance to really dwell and go down the black hole of, like, fear for, I think, two reasons. One is I have just this absolutely fantastic community of people in Santa Barbara. I think these. They rallied around me. Like, they lifted me. Sorry.

[David Farrier]

He starts crying, and he does this a lot during our call. But sometimes I found it hard to tell because his laughter sounds so similar to his crying, which kind of makes sense. They're both just such honest, clear emotions. But this time, he's crying.

[Nick]

Like when I was. When they were wheeling me out of the hospital, I had, like, 10 people. Like, my friends came, and they were already setting up, like, meal trains, which is every day someone was coming to my house and sitting with me or feeding, and I couldn't drive, and I had to go to radiation every day for a month. And so I had a different friend sign up to take me every morning so I'd have all this wonderful time with people. And it was like, wow, this is kind of, like, the best thing ever. That's kind of what it felt like in some ways. I never had a chance to really dwell on it. The other thing, too, is my emotions are very hard to control, Having lost some of those brains. It's just another side effect. It's emotional regulation. So just even the slightest think can just send me, which is kind of a gift. It's like I just break down crying like every other day. And the second reason is they took out my amygdala, which processes fear. I don't know how accurate that is. I'm not a brain scientist, but there's something about fear in the amygdala, and it's gone, which is very trippy.

[David Farrier]

I found all of this so fascinating, and it's why I wanted to talk to parasocial, flightless bird listener Nick, probably much more than he wanted to talk to me. He was a guy who just keeps getting parts of his brain removed and observes aspects of his personality changing in real time. And in all of this, while he hazes down in chaotic moments, like all of us. He keeps so upbeat. He makes me feel sort of pathetic for the things I like to complain about on a daily basis. And I keep coming back to the importance of community, something that seems to be so hard to grasp for many of us in the world at the moment. Which led me to this very long question. You've talked a few times about this community of people you had around you. And I feel like we hear more and more often, you know, not just. It is, I think, pronounced in America in a lot of ways about how isolated people are and people have a lot of context, but they're all kind of made up, people on Instagram, you know.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

I'm wondering how you, what you credit that community down to, whether it was a hobby, your personality, how you live your life. Because I think a lot of people don't understand how to get a community around them like that.

[Nick]

It's funny because surfing is kind of a really selfish sport. It's like, all right, my wave, you know, you don't want to share, but you start to meet people. There's kind of the locals and the people that go to the same spots. And I, I have a lot of friends that surf and we surf together. And in Santa Barbara, it's one of the greatest places to surf. We don't have the best waves year round, but when we do, it's fun. And there's a group out here that just rallied behind me and I realized they do this every year. It's called not to like, be too promotion y about it, but it's called the Friendship Paddle. And it's a group of surfers, fishermen, people that just love the water. And every year they rally behind someone with a terminal or life threatening illness and they create this like, first of all, it's a fundraiser, but secondly, they do this thing where they say we're going to do something hard because they're going through something hard and we want to show them that sense of empathy.

[David Farrier]

And.

[Nick]

And they paddle on their boards across the channel from Santa Barbara to the Channel Islands, which are about 20 to 30 miles away. And this group of 100 or so people paddle on their. Just using their arms. They paddle 30 miles across the channel just in honor of this person. They did every year. And I've had friends that have been honored by that group or I've gone and supported that group and they picked me this year and it was not expected. But just the way that that group rallies around someone and says, hey, this is A local community. We have someone in need. We're gonna get behind them. And just the simple act of bringing us out into the water and paddling for us, it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to me. And they kind of do it as a surprise. Like my friend Connie said, hey, you want to go to lunch at this? I was like, yeah. And we, yeah, we show up at this restaurant or it was like an outdoor scene and there's 10 people. And I'm like, whoa, what's everyone doing here? What are the odds? Like, guess what, we're going to do this for you. And I've never, like, just tears. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

The paddle he went on was 31 miles. It took about eight hours to finish. People went out the day before in boats to set up, and on the day they had boats following them the whole way for safety and in case anyone needed a break. And in all of this, the elephant in the room, that fucking 15 syllable thing he says so easily, but for dummies like me is simply a pxa. You're in this really unique situation where you've beaten this thing before, but you also know it's gonna, at some point it will come back. So I'm just wondering in a practical level how that does change how you live your life and if every day you've still got that thing of like, no, fuck it, I'm going to do that thing, or whether you get back into this. You know how most of us live, which is kind of in a bit of a coma. Like you kind of. You don't. You don't know, and thinks they're going to die. Right. We all kind of secretly think we're invincible. And you live each day. You know, I just wasted eight hours watching this fucking terrible Netflix show that I'll never get back. And I wish I could snap myself out of this kind of zombie state sometimes that I think a lot of us live in. Very long winded question. What's my point? I'm just wondering how your particularly unique situation has kind of changed the way you think about how you relate to other people in the world.

[Nick]

Yeah. I think first is giving yourself grace and having patience and knowing that it's okay to have days like that. Like, it's not a waste of time. It's. Sometimes it's just what you need. I think I was, I was really scared to fall asleep the first month. I was like, sleeping is wasting time. Sleeping is wasting time. I can't. But it's really important to sleep to heal. Right? So I Think I had to learn. Okay, I'm gonna. This is gonna take time. I don't have to do everything with this sense of urgency right now. I can find, like, if I'm present, if I'm present in the moment, I can get that sense of sort of. What's the word? The sense of gratification or happiness, joy, peace. And your greatest. I realized my greatest resource was my attention. That's the thing I think I noticed was everyone's on their phone all the time. You're looking, you're crossing the street, you're looking at Instagram, whatever. If I could put that away and just give my attention to the moment, whatever I'm doing, then every moment doesn't matter what you're doing, even if you're watching a show or just chatting with a friend, it's like there's some beauty in that moment. And I learned to be kind of patient with myself and patient with other people and kind of understanding, like, we all have our own unique struggles, battles, whatever it is, you know? And I learned to just accept that and try not to. Try not to be hard on myself or hard on other people. You know, Kind of one of the funniest things that I've noticed is the mundane things, right? Like going to the store, going to the pharmacy. I started going to the pharmacy a lot because I have to take a lot of medication, something. I went again from 0 to 100, right? And I started talking to the pharmacists, and they recognized me, and I was like, oh, this is the best part of my day when I get to talk to these people. It's like, oh, cool. They're asking me how I'm doing. I'm talking to people online. I'm just becoming this sort of comic figure. I felt like, oh, am I ridiculous? Am I embarrassing? But it was fun. I was just finding joy in the mundane. Just little things like that, especially when you lose freedom. I couldn't drive, but I was able to walk to the pharmacy and take my dog or whatever. And it was just enough freedom. I was like, this is the best you remember to have appreciation for those moments. Like, stop trying to speed through it to get to the next thing and just appreciate the now.

[David Farrier]

And there's something really important here, because this whole time I've been talking to him, I've assumed the thing is gone for now, that he's being so upbeat to me, because after two surgeries, it hadn't come back yet.

[Nick]

So I have. It's the tumor's back. They recurred on a scan. What's it, November? Like August or September? We saw it was back and growing.

[David Farrier]

Fuck. I'm sorry. I didn't know that.

[Nick]

That's okay. You know, that's just something I again expected, and it sucks. But that's reality.

[David Farrier]

And that brings us to why he wrote into Flightless Bird, why he was being a parasocial listener, wanting to talk. Sure, he wanted to tell us that he liked the show, but he wanted to give us some context on how he came to the decision of what he wanted to do next, about what he wanted to do with the money that had been raised from the Friendship Paddle. He had been thinking very carefully about how to use his time.

[Nick]

What are the things in life that I've never done? Something exciting, some adventure. And I was blessed with that gift of some money from that fundraiser. And they're like, the whole point of this is to give you the means to do stuff. Go live your life. Have fun. I was like, so everybody, every week, they're like, nick, what'd you do? What'd you book? You going anywhere? What are you doing? I was like, okay, I gotta do something. So I was like, where can I surf where I can get around on my own, speak the language, feel relatively comfortable? I was like, well, there's Australia, but we don't want to go Australia.

[David Farrier]

No one wants to go to Australia.

[Nick]

And I've been down to, like, Baja and Mexico and, you know, being by myself and feeling comfortable, it's like, oh, where can I go? That's as far as possible from here. New Zealand.

[David Farrier]

New Zealand. He's going to New Zealand.

[Nick]

And so I booked a flight. I was like, that's great.

[David Farrier]

It.

[Nick]

I'm going to do it now. I have a camper van for two weeks in New Zealand in February.

[David Farrier]

So that's cool.

[Nick]

We're doing it. I honestly have no idea why I picked New Zealand. I just. It kind of was like. It was a subconscious thing, listening to you.

[David Farrier]

Nick says he's nervous about a few things, mainly about remembering to drive on the other side of the road. He's been cleared to drive, by the way, so don't worry. He tells me he just wants to be on his own for a bit before he logged off. Zoom. He wanted some advice on what to do in New Zealand, and we agreed to keep in touch while this whole thing plays out. So I'll keep in touch with him and keep you posted, too. People talk a lot of shit about parasocial relationships, and in some cases, fair enough. The balance can be uneven and weird, but after talking to Nick and getting to know him a little, I just feel really grateful for all this. Parasocial relationships via podcast can be fucking great and if I can live my life with a shred of the integrity and perspective that Nick has, well, I think I'll be pretty happy with that. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes Comes from Quints now cold mornings holiday plans. This is when I need my wardrobe to just work. That's why I'm all about quints. They make it easy to look sharp, feel good and have gifts that last. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, Quince pieces are crafted from premium materials and built to hold up without the luxury mockup.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

Yeah, I got a new winter jacket for my holiday travels. I put it on the other day to go to a hockey game and Calvin was like I really like your jacket.

[David Farrier]

Oh that's cute.

[Rob]

It was very nice.

[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

Yeah, you need some help.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

That's wildalaskan.combird For $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

So yeah, that was Nick and I just feel insanely grateful that he reached out in the first place and then agreed to talk more. And it's. Yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

I mean that was a very moving.

[David Farrier]

Story in a really short amount of time. Yeah.

[Rob]

It's crazy. I asked you before we started re recording. I didn't know if I. The timeline seemed way too scrunched completely in my mind.

[David Farrier]

I believe it was March of last year that the first like when he had that horrible zoom call.

[Rob]

So it was that quickly that sometimes.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Is terrifying.

[David Farrier]

And it's just that idea of yeah. I mean I am just impressed by people that have that kind of perspective in something like that. Especially when I mean, you know Me, like, we were talking about this earlier. Like, I spiral out so easily if I perceive anything being, like, wrong or not going right. Like, I. And I'm talking, like, tiny, dumb work. And so to see how he handles this with such grace just blew my mind. Like, I couldn't fucking believe it.

[Rob]

Well, it's really crazy and really interesting. So the part of his brain was removed that controls fear?

[David Farrier]

Yes. Yeah, he mentioned that's part of it.

[Rob]

And like, just removing then the fear of death.

[David Farrier]

Like, I wonder how much that.

[Rob]

It's almost like. I don't want to say a gift, but.

[David Farrier]

No, no, but it wraps in and it's like. I think his brain changing in that way is in the situation.

[Rob]

Yeah. It's allowing him to live this time the way he has. Where, like, I like the fear that I would have. Knowing that, like, something like, there's more of a time on things.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

I feel like would just ruin the remaining time.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Whereas he's. He's in an opposite state where he is. He is valuing every single bit of that time, including talking to a pharmacist, which is something usually that. The last time I went to a pharmacist, I was sort of grumpy in line and wanted it to be quick and didn't care and that whole energy for me would have spun out into the day. Whereas he's just grateful to be there. It's also that thing where he mentioned this in our interview as well, that your brain has so much neuroplasticity where I can never say that word, but, you know, he's missing. You know, that's the other thing. Like, he's physically having bits of his brain being removed. And yet the brain bounces back, it rewires and it copes. And he's. I don't know, I almost sort of see him. He has this superpower where his emotions are close to the surface. He can emote. He can, like, have all those genuine conversations with people. And it's like just. Even the conversation we had, I felt so connected to him because I think he was giving me so much.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Like, most people when they're talking about personal shit, have this fucking. I certainly do wall up that you're talking through. And his was just no wall whatsoever. It's like raw emotion conversation.

[Rob]

I think that's also the, like, social fears that you have of, like. I need to filter what I'm saying because.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. So you don't feel awkward. So I don't feel awkward.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And none of that exists with him, which is kind of beautiful.

[Rob]

I mean, it's really admirable. How he's living is how everyone should strive to live is kind of what I took from that, of, like, if everyone could approach every day like that completely.

[David Farrier]

And then, you know, I. I didn't. I didn't know the tumor had come back after his second surgery. So when I sort of opened up that call with him, I was sort of. The back. Part of. The back of my mind was thinking, oh, you're being positive like this because this thing is gone at the moment. But no, he's having the entire conversation with me knowing that this thing is. Is growing again, you know?

[Rob]

Do you know when his third surgery is supposed to be?

[David Farrier]

So he. So that is an update. He is not, at this stage, not going to do another surgery, but he is doing a clinical trial at UCLA where he basically goes in there, has a shit ton of. He picks up his meds, their pills. He takes those every week. He has a diary where he records how he feels physically, emotionally, all of it. And so those meds are obviously to treat a tumor. So there is a world where that treatment helps him and hits things back. It's a clinical trial. So I. And I think he has no idea about how likely it is that. How much more time we'll give him. Like, there's a world where it kills the tumor, you know, But I just think that is, like, it's.

[Nick]

It's.

[David Farrier]

That's not a given in any way. But, yeah, at the moment, another surgery, it's that thing where. Oh, it'll just come back again. And also every surgery, you're physically losing a bit of your brain, which is like. I can't even get my head around that.

[Rob]

Yeah, more and more pieces of your brain going completely.

[David Farrier]

But, yeah, it also. And I just. I liked what he talked about how just having. Mainly for him, like the surfing community coming around him, just having people and just. I. I get so cynical this year, I felt especially. I've got so cynical about just people in general and humans and what they're doing. I just. I just feel sort of off and down about it all. But he's got. He's surrounded by people that have helped him this entire time, and that's everywhere. And it's just sometimes you forget that, I think a little bit.

[Rob]

Yeah. I mean, Harry in that community come around him was beautiful of like, that time he would get to spend with people and the meals being made and taking him to treatment, all of that.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So, yeah, that was that was Nick. And in the show notes, I'm gonna put a link to a couple of his bands. I think at the end of this episode will play out with one of them. He's got two bands. Uncle uncle, by the way. He wasn't making me promote this. I'm just like, I want people to know about his bands because I really like them. Uncle uncle is one of them. And Pookie is another one, which is instrumental. Kind of what he calls sort of math rock. Very like interesting time signatures, but also like very chill.

[Rob]

I love some math rock. Do you know the term math rock?

[David Farrier]

I don't. I'm a huge fan of the Dillinger Escape Plan, who are like a very metal heavy meth rock where it's just like you can't. You can't like mosh to it. It's just everything is changing all the time.

[Rob]

There was this really great band in Chicago called Maps and Atlases that definitely rock.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, Very, very in the middle scene. Like a very nerdy vibe. His is more beautiful instrumental stuff. I'll play that out at the end of the episode. But yeah, Nick just blew my mind. All of it. All of that story did. And I just thought it was a good episode to kind of end the sheer on for us.

[Rob]

Yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah. Aspirational of like try to be more like Nick pretty much. And to have gratitude that you don't.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, gratitude's exactly it. Yeah, it's like especially I feel like this holiday time, we're coming up to this time of people are in really beautiful situations and some really horrendous situations, but if you can just take something from what's happening around you and it's.

[Rob]

Positive, find positivity and no matter what situation.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Because if he can fucking do it, like, I feel like we all can. Yeah. God, Nick's a legend. Should we do a bit of feedback?

[Rob]

Yeah, let's do a little bit of.

[David Farrier]

Feedback before we go on a little two week excursion.

[Rob]

Yes. You're going back to New Zealand after this.

[David Farrier]

I'm going to New Zealand. Yeah. I'm going to try and enter the United States again sort of mid Jan. I think I sent you that headline the other day. Foreigners allowed to travel to the US without a visa could soon face new social media screening.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So this doesn't apply to me because I have a visa. But they've just made it clear they've filed papers. So it makes it that if you are entering through the esta, the visa Waiver program, I think they want to look through five years of your social media history to make sure you're not saying anything anti American or anti Trump.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Which is just AI doing that, I would imagine.

[David Farrier]

I think they're a wonderful AI in charge of that. And then I guess they pull you aside in line if you've said anything against the wonderful ruler of this country. So, yeah, I feel a bit. By the way, I'm not going to complain about anything in the rest of this episode ever. But no, it's slightly apprehensive about the process of leaving the States and coming back again. We'll find out next year how that goes.

[Rob]

Just wear your birthday boy vest.

[David Farrier]

How could they send this back? Right. Okay. Kelly. Feedback. Love the pod. As a fan of the Truman Show, I thought you'd like to know that the town used as the set in that movie actually exists and still looks very much like it did in the movie. The town is Seaside, Florida, and it's a beautiful beach town to visit. Rob, I would love to go with you to that town at some point.

[Rob]

Yeah, let's. Let's go.

[David Farrier]

We could do a Truman show retrospective. One of the best movies ever made. There was a lot of feedback about reality tv. Connected with a lot of people. So there was just so much. Yeah, I can't read them all like hundreds of people wrote in, but I like the level of detail that Nicole wrote in with. Couldn't help but write in about Mike White, season of Survivor, as mentioned in your reality tv.

[Rob]

Yes, I know what this is about.

[David Farrier]

There's no. There's like a slight fact check, but then a really cool story.

[Rob]

Yes, yes, yes. I can explain.

[David Farrier]

Can you explain? Explain what went on.

[Rob]

Mike White did make it very far in Survivor. I confused his. I didn't confuse them as people, but John Levitt from pod Save America, who I like a lot. Giant Pod did a season not too long after Mike White. He got voted out right away. So I confused their game.

[David Farrier]

So what did you say? You thought that Mike White.

[Rob]

I thought Mike White got. I. I mixed up their game.

[David Farrier]

How dare you.

[Rob]

I know Mike got pretty far.

[David Farrier]

As someone that doesn't watch a lot of reality tv, I didn't know any of this, so it's all. It's all news to me.

[Rob]

But you know who Mike White and John Levitt are.

[David Farrier]

I don't know John. I don't know Levitt. I know the podcast. I don't listen to it, but I know it's amazing.

[Rob]

John Levitt, I believe, is Ronan Farrell's partner.

[David Farrier]

We'll fact that. We'll fact check that next year.

[Rob]

Next year.

[David Farrier]

No, that sounds like. You'll be right. You'll be right. Don't doubt yourself. Okay, so Nicole wrote in saying there's some interesting lore about how his season ended. And I have, in fact checked this. But I trust Nicole. I feel a kinship with her. The winner of his season, David versus Goliath, was a guy named Nick Wilson. He was on the David tribe, a tribe full of underdogs. And she had a very personal. And she had very personal stories throughout the season about growing up poor in Kentucky and having a mother with drug addiction. She eventually passed away due to substance abuse. The rumors are that when Mike and Nick got to the final tribal, do.

[Rob]

You know what that means?

[David Farrier]

I do not watch reality tv, so I don't know. Sort of the finale, the final tribal, they're gathered around a flame.

[Rob]

Okay, so Survivor just give you a quick rundown of Survivor. Okay. You're voting out someone every week. The tribe is.

[David Farrier]

The tribe speaks.

[Rob]

And someone can win immunity if they're good. Okay, good player. But then, so after the merge. So you start on multiple tribes.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Sorry, this is getting confusing. Multiple tribes voting people off in individual tribes. But then there's a merge where they all come together in a big group and then once the merge happens, people that got voted off after the merge then go into the jury. Okay, so the people you are voting off.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Are then picking who wins from.

[David Farrier]

And this is all very exciting. This is a very exciting moment.

[Rob]

It's. It just is. Like the social aspect of this game is dependent on. You have to fuck over and vote this person off and send them home, but you can't do it in a way where they feel betrayed and hate you and won't vote for you at tribal. So there's a little bit of like, I want to get far, but I can't do it in a way that's going to piss everyone off because then they won't vote for me.

[David Farrier]

Okay. Could I win Survivor? Can someone win Survivor if they're like a nice guy? If they're not annoying anyone, they just like, they want to be friends with everyone. Can you win?

[Nick]

You.

[David Farrier]

If you've got enough physical strength and.

[Rob]

You'Re brave, it enough says outwit, outplay, outlast. So it's the three aspects of that game. If you're too much of a physical threat.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

People will target you.

[David Farrier]

So I would be targeted? No, I would be targeted.

[Rob]

Or if you're too clever, you get targeted.

[David Farrier]

Also Target also target being targeted twice.

[Rob]

But there is like a move where someone is just like flies very under the radar and like, oh, just bring me. I'm not a threat.

[David Farrier]

That would be me.

[Rob]

But then they don't ever win.

[David Farrier]

They don't win. Okay.

[Rob]

Because they're not playing a good enough game. Because when you're voting, you're supposed to be taking in those three things.

[David Farrier]

How do you get on? Do you apply as an application?

[Rob]

You apply. You gotta make a little video and send it in.

[David Farrier]

It's still going. So over it is.

[Rob]

They're about to do 50. Okay. The one last Survivor tidbit.

[David Farrier]

Okay. Yeah.

[Rob]

The crazy thing about some of the more recent series seasons of it is that the games been on for so long and they'll bring on like super fans and they've had a few people that will recreate puzzle challenges and like games so that they can practice at home.

[David Farrier]

Oh, I see.

[Rob]

So they're making like elaborate games where you have this puzzle that you've got to do this.

[David Farrier]

Oh, and so you're saying the mega fans will then come on the actual show and will do quite well.

[Rob]

Yes, because they like, oh, I've practiced this.

[David Farrier]

I like that.

[Rob]

I use my 3D printer to make all the pieces and I know exactly how to do these. But I think the game then they've had to start changing up, changing the.

[David Farrier]

Game so that the fans don't take over.

[Rob]

Yes.

[David Farrier]

Any other trivia? Sorry to get out.

[Rob]

Got me going again.

[David Farrier]

Okay, back to Nicole.

[Rob]

Yes, sorry.

[David Farrier]

I enjoyed that. Sort of. The rumors are that when Mike and Nick got to the final tribal, which I now know what it is thanks to you, the final episode with a the voted out contestants vote for the winner of the season. She summarized it in 10 words. But yeah, give me a bit longer. Mike told them to vote for Nick. Supposedly it was because Mike didn't need the multimillion dollar prize and wanted Nick to have it. This obviously wasn't shown on the show, but Nick did indeed go on to win. Flash forward to 2022. Nick went on to become a public defender and ran a political campaign to join Kentucky's House of Reps. He won after running unopposed and in 2023 he supported an anti trans bill that eventually went into Kentucky law. Long story short, Mike should have won and fuck. Nick Wilson, longtime listener, first time writer and Survivor super fan. That's a great, that is a great, great email, fact and anecdote. Thank you, Nicole. Dream email and agree, agree hard. Caleb. First of all, because I'm not sure if it was ever actually brought up on the show. Does David even watch reality tv?

[Rob]

Do you?

[David Farrier]

I don't. Just busy. On a more serious note, I thought I'd put my two cents in Ari. A brief mention that was made by the showrunner about reality TV and true crime that starts dealing with how traumatic issues happen and the lack of psychological support for those involved in making the show. I was a social worker for 18 years and a fundamental aspect of the profession is what we call supervision. Ideally, it's done monthly and with someone external to your organization who is a trained supervisor. The goal is to reflect on your practice, work through ethical issues and process things you're exposed to in your work. It's really helpful. Surprisingly, I don't believe any other profession besides what I do is similarly exposed to such issues. They don't emphasise supervision like in social work. Personally, I think it should be a fundamental part of professions such as police and emergency services, for example, but others who as part of their professional work are regularly exposed to trauma and situations that take significant emotional psychological toll. And yeah, I thought it was a good point. Like it's quite. It's very rare to have any kind of professional psychological oversight. I was surprised. I have a friend in New Zealand who's a paramedic and this was 10 years ago now, but there was like, very little. You're seeing horrific stuff all the time.

[Rob]

Traumatizing things.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. And like, you know, I'm sort of talking to him about, like, what I'm talking to my therapist about and he's like, oh, you know, this happened to me. Therapy. And I'm like, oh my God. Seems like some professions, including people that have been traumatized on reality shows for massive profit for the network, should probably get a therapist.

[Rob]

Probably. Yes.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Emily wrote in from New Zealand about our First Amendment Auditors episode. While I was working at a regional council in New Zealand, we were audited by a YouTuber. I won't give his name because screw this guy. He wandered around the building filming and being annoying, tried to access out of bounds areas and then uploaded efforts onto the Internet. I'm not really sure what his aim was, but probably the same sort of pointless bullshit that Betty was subjected to. Thought it might be interesting to know that the public servants have also been harassed in New Zealand by First Amendment auditors. So like much of American culture, we get your Coca Cola, we get your Burger King, we get Subway, and we get fucking First Amendment auditors too, you shitheads.

[Rob]

I did. There was a comment someone said a trick for dealing with First Amendment auditors. Pull out your phone and play Taylor Swift loudly because then YouTube will flag copyright content. Yeah so and we got a wrap this year and apparently the artist Most Flightless bird listeners listen to Taylor Swift.

[David Farrier]

I support everyone's choices and what they listen to. James said. Just finished the First Amendment Auditors episode. My dad is very much a fan of these videos and I can't think of anything I'd rather watch less when I'm visiting my parents house. Also, you mentioning that people can most likely find certain documentaries at the library made me think of a service that I just found out existed. There's an app called Kanopy that works in the same way as Netflix. You connect your canopy account to your library card and then you can access the movies and documentaries your library has.

[Rob]

Completely free as a streamer.

[David Farrier]

It is an app on your phone, it's on the Internet and it's free with your library card. So you have a free library account. Download Kanopy or go to the Kanopy website. Kanopy with a K K A N O P Y.

[Rob]

But Kanape has documentaries and movies that.

[David Farrier]

You can watch anything the library has in their file. All free, all there. And I think that's just one of the many services libraries have that I think a lot of people, including me, are not aware of. Go libraries. One more on First Amendment Auditors I know you're probably sick of receiving feedback on this topic, but I'm an attorney who represents small local government units. I feel compelled to respond to the email you read from a listener defending them in last week's episode. Recording those responsible for protecting our rights and enforcing our laws, like police officers and ICE agents, is vastly different from recording a schoolteacher, a public librarian, or a township clerk. Police officers are expected to know constitutional rights and not infringe upon them. It's central to their job, and recording can be extremely important in holding law enforcement accountable.

[Rob]

Plus they have weapons.

[David Farrier]

Plus they have fucking guns. A librarian knowing whether her name and salary are public information is not at all relevant to her job. Demanding that a librarian understand constitutional protections is like expecting an allergist to be able to perform an organ transplant just because they're both doctors. It really bothered me that the listener praised First Amendment auditors for raising awareness. If that was the goal. First Amendment auditors would record videos of themselves calmly explaining how to make a FOIA request and advising on what is private versus public data. And that's obviously not the goal. Virality at the expense of public workers is the goal. And I just thought that was such a fucking good point.

[Rob]

Yeah. Intent is everything.

[David Farrier]

Intent is every. No, intent. That's the word. Intent is everything. The intent of a First Amendment auditor is to get a shit ton of clicks on YouTube and make money. Okay, a few. Well, a lot of emails about people's phobias, which we talked about in a previous episode, Hannah in Chicago. Toes touching.

[Nick]

Yeah, that's gross.

[Rob]

Ever since pictures of people like interlocking toes.

[David Farrier]

Oh, it's one of my favorite things.

[Rob]

Yeah, sure it is.

[David Farrier]

Ever since I was a kid, the thought of my toes touching each other has made me want cut them off. I used to wear toe dividers for putting on nail polish and layer three pairs of socks over that. I now work with people with autism and realize I'm probably myself a bit on the spectrum. Lastly, I've developed a fear of flying. I thought of you, Rob. I'm going to sedate myself and go to Greece next summer. Which made me think. Rob, sedation to get you to New Zealand is an option.

[Rob]

We'll see.

[David Farrier]

There are very strong sleeping pills. Yeah, Dylan said. My wife and I both have some interesting phobias, so I'll tell you about them. We're certainly not as courageous as brave it. His words, not mine. Starting with me. Sidon Globophobia. The fear of cotton balls. I don't have it as bad as some of the others, but I still cannot stand touching them. I had this in high school and my friends would play pranks on me by hiding them in my locker room or their cars when they drove me somewhere.

[Rob]

Wait, can we pause just a second? The idea that a item like cotton balls then gets a scientific name. Crazy. Not just fear of cotton balls. I like what? Fear of Kleenex. They're gonna then come up with that.

[David Farrier]

And how many people have to have the specific fear before it. Before it gets a name?

[Rob]

And where. How are they naming it?

[David Farrier]

Yes, I'm just.

[Rob]

I'm just roots of it.

[David Farrier]

I've just googled it and it does seem very specific to cotton wool. Cotton balls or cotton wool.

[Rob]

I guess they've been around a long time.

[David Farrier]

But what are people generally using? I don't own cotton balls. Do you have them in your house?

[Rob]

No, I don't think.

[David Farrier]

What are you using cotton balls for? Wounds.

[Rob]

Women wounds. And for like taking nail polish. Nail polish off women. Women or men.

[David Farrier]

Good point. I was just thinking we had someone write in about how they want their toes touching. Imagine if you had that fear, but then you also have a fear of cotton balls. So you can't use those to keep.

[Rob]

Your toes apart because she was using that.

[David Farrier]

It's fascinating. I describe touching a cotton ball as the feeling of having my soul sucked out of my fingertips. I haven't willfully touched one since 2005. He also has caborophobia, which is. I think I also have this. It's a fear of crabs. I don't know what else to say, but crabs are my biggest fear.

[Rob]

Pubic crabs.

[David Farrier]

Guessing. Big crabs. Okay.

[Rob]

Can you see? Is there a potentially. Is there a difference?

[David Farrier]

Pubic crabs are also crab like but just very small.

[Rob]

STD crab.

[David Farrier]

Fear of the STD crab. I googled it. I'm getting a lot of pictures of big ocean crabs. Okay, fair. As opposed to the. I've never had crabs. The sti. Which I'm grateful for.

[Rob]

Me neither.

[David Farrier]

I don't really want to. I don't know what else to say. But crabs are my biggest fear. I'm paralyzed near them but have a morbid curiosity where I have to watch them but make sure I keep a safe distance.

[Rob]

So you're afraid of crabs?

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I just. I mean everyone, every kid at the beach. I feel like when I was a kid in New Zealand and if something bit my toe. Because in the sand they'd grab you. And I would yelp and scream and I'd be really worried about putting my feet on the ocean floor because I don't want to be bitten. So I. But I would say most people are fearful. I haven't seen anyone run towards a crab and sort of pick one up because you know what's going to happen? You're going to get fucking bitten.

[Rob]

You're not watching enough Survivor. David.

[David Farrier]

Do they do a lot of that in sport?

[Rob]

They do eat a lot of crap. I mean they try to get caught.

[David Farrier]

They catch them.

[Rob]

But I mean crab. Some crabs are tiny. Are you afraid of the baby ones?

[David Farrier]

No.

[Rob]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

I picked up a tiny crab.

[Rob]

Yeah, they're cute.

[David Farrier]

They are cute.

[Rob]

There's this restaurant Kincan in Los Angeles that they do like a tasting menu that takes you from like north to South Thailand and they have this dish with like little deep fried crab.

[David Farrier]

A little tiny guy, like a little.

[Rob]

Baby guy that they like pose.

[David Farrier]

I remember in school we had a science teacher, Dr. Layton. She also looked after our sort of form class.

[Rob]

Yeah, she had crabs.

[David Farrier]

She had crabs in. She had crashed. She was a God. She was a very God fearing woman. Had crabs in the science room. And one day some shitty kid released the crabs. Yeah. And the crabs got out. The crabs, a lot of them died, which is object I love as sort of awful, but I just remember her just being so angry that this has happened. I just remember the most guilt filled sort of session from her in class, like trying to say, like, who let these crabs out? Yeah, it's like we'd. We'd killed like 15 babies or something. It was really intense. But we should look after our crabs.

[Rob]

Did you have a New Zealand restaurants that just had like a tank with like live lobsters that they would. Okay, we did not. That was not an American thing. That's before you kill it.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, no, that's. That's definitely in New Zealand also. Okay. He then moves on to his wife, who is also riddled with anxieties. Taxidermophobia. You know, this is fear of taxidermy, so better not invite them to our live show or I hope they're not watching this video of our studio. And the bigger the animal, the worse her reaction is. She's in a Facebook group where people can ask each other if there is taxidermy in a public place so she can know where it's safe and where she can avoid.

[Rob]

Wow. Is there that much public taxidermy?

[David Farrier]

Every single. They start to pop up. They're around every single unknown restaurant we go to. I have to walk in first and scan the place for her to make sure it's clear and tell her exactly what is there, how big and where it is. After our friends got married in Seattle, they had an after party at a place called Unicorn. We got out of the Uber, she looked inside. We got right back in the Uber and went to the Airbnb. I'll never be able to take her to the Field Museum in Chicago or any other natural history museum with her, ever.

[Rob]

Dylan, your museum is great too.

[David Farrier]

I mean, I wonder if it's like I get hating taxidermy because it's like that was once a beautiful live animal.

[Rob]

Right.

[David Farrier]

Obviously the phobia is like a fear thing.

[Rob]

You know, fear also that, like it's going to come alive.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. What is the fear? If there was a very still penguin alive and a very taxidermied penguin next to each other, what one will elicit fear? Is it thinking that one is they're both taxidermy.

[Rob]

Is it also stuffed animals?

[David Farrier]

That's another issue. What's the line?

[Rob]

Very realistic looking stuffed animals, some plush toys. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Finally, Mike White here. Mike White. He's got some things to say about Survivor I was not voted off for from my drive Rob, I'm an American.

[Rob]

I would like to publicly apologize to Mike White for saying that.

[David Farrier]

And Mike White, if you're listening, FlightTheSpreadchatmail.com we would love to have you here. Mike says, I'm an American living in New Zealand since 2010. Adventurous American. Exotic New Zealand. You know the story. I've got a nagging question for David, and I think you're the only one who can address it with the absurd and unnecessary attention it doesn't deserve. Brought versus bought. When you buy something, you have bought it. When you bring something, you brought it. Why do New Zealanders use brought in place of bought and sometimes vice versa? Could you please address or dismiss the topic as you see fit? Also, has Rob ever pointed this out to you or being tripped up by it? Your podcast makes you feel more grounded having a foot in both cultural worlds, Mike. Have you noticed?

[Rob]

I've noticed it. So I try to walk a line with you. I don't.

[David Farrier]

We had one today.

[Rob]

Yeah, we did.

[David Farrier]

Maryland.

[Rob]

Yes. Maryland. I.

[David Farrier]

It doesn't have a Mary. It's Maryland.

[Rob]

Maryland. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Maryland.

[Rob]

Yeah. I don't try to bring it up to make fun of you or tease you when. Well, I say it.

[David Farrier]

No, it's.

[Rob]

I. It's more. I don't want you to think you're saying it right.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Continue to say it wrong and then the bully at the playground.

[David Farrier]

Not you.

[Rob]

Another.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, completely.

[Rob]

For saying Maryland.

[David Farrier]

You also have the problem where you don't know whether it is my New Zealandisms and whether it is that or it's just my incompetency with the English language. There's also that problem.

[Rob]

I'm normally assuming that it's just you're saying it differently and that all New Zealanders maybe say it differently or Americans are saying it wrong.

[David Farrier]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob]

So I have heard you say brought and bought kind of interchangeably.

[David Farrier]

Yes. So that is something. I would definitely not put that on all New Zealanders. I just know that I always mess that up. Much like when I say library, not library. I miss some. Some, like, letters or yar.

[Nick]

What.

[Rob]

What's. What's the.

[David Farrier]

What's the. What is that?

[Rob]

What's the Australian wine?

[David Farrier]

Oh, no, no, that's the Australian. Yeah. No, the Australians are incapable of saying no.

[Rob]

I love the no.

[David Farrier]

So, no, I would say bought and brought. I'm aware of it. When I'm typing them out, I know the difference. But when it comes to saying them, I don't know what's going to come out. I don't know. I don't know what the order is. When I get it right, when I get it wrong.

[Rob]

Yeah, you don't know.

[David Farrier]

Correct me anytime, Rob, about anything, and I will do the same with you.

[Rob]

Please do.

[David Farrier]

Thank you for listening to Flightless Bird this year.

[Rob]

This has been an incredible year for the show.

[David Farrier]

It's been. It's been. It's good. It feels like it is. It knows what it is, the show, and it's. People are listening.

[Rob]

Well, I mean, we did all of our live shows this year.

[David Farrier]

My God, that was this year.

[Rob]

That was all this year.

[David Farrier]

Those were fun. Yeah, those were a blast.

[Rob]

A bunch of those.

[David Farrier]

And that makes us, kind of thing we do alone in this little studio, feel real and alive when there's a bunch of people turning up and there's a band playing.

[Rob]

Hopefully we'll do some more in 2026.

[David Farrier]

That would be great. We have a lot of topics to bring you Our fear that we once had at the beginning, possibly of like, will we run out of ideas that has been proven sort of almost hideously wrong. It's like, there's too much to do where it gets daunting.

[Rob]

I mean, we've. We could do six months on reality tv. Reality tv.

[David Farrier]

No joke.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Very easy to do. So, yeah, if you, you know, thanks for listening and thanks for telling your friends about the show. Thanks for liking and subscribing and all that stuff. For anyone that has rated us on Apple music or Spotify, that's a huge help in, like, spreading it out into the algorithm. Anyone that's joined our Patreon in the last couple of months, thank you so much.

[Rob]

Patreon.com Flightless Bird.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, it's great putting our ad free stuff there. We put out bonus episodes every week, and it's just another reminder that there's a really lovely community of people that want to support what we do. And that is, you know, I think we both like making this show. I feel like we like making it, but having the feedback and the audience is, I'd say, like 90% of the joy of it as well. Like, without that, it's not worth doing. We're nothing. So. And I think, as Nick kind of demonstrated today in the episode, like, holy shit. We have some lovely listeners and just feel very lucky to have anyone listening to the show.

[Rob]

I 100% agree.

[David Farrier]

Finally, I just wanted to play Pookie, which is Nick's band that he has. Instrumental Math rock.

[Rob]

How do you spell that?

[David Farrier]

P O O K I E. Very cute. Kind of a name Pookie. This is called thank you for your service. They're on all music streaming platforms. I really like Pookie. Really like Nick. And yeah, I'll keep you up to date next year with how Nick's New Zealand trip goes and how the whole health thing goes. I'm going to keep in touch with him. This is thank you for your service. It.

[Rob]

Okay, that was Pookie.

[David Farrier]

Love Pookie.

[Rob]

And like always, we're on Patreon now.

[David Farrier]

Patreon.com Flightless Bird Here's a clip from.

[Rob]

This week's bonus episode.

[David Farrier]

See you there. So you had a suggestion for what we do in the segment sometimes, which I think is a, a good idea.

[Rob]

So once a month, the idea is we cover just some sort of dark topic that will alternate a mystery, a cult, a killing. Yeah, mystery. A murder.

[David Farrier]

So we're discussing the Los Feliz murder house today.

[Rob]

Yes. Rumor was like this house, this gruesome murder happened. This man murdered his family on Christmas morning or Christmas Eve. And you can go look in the window and everything is still left. How it was that there's still a Christmas tree up with presents under the tree.

[David Farrier]

Incredibly creepy.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Seven part podcast series that came out in 2021. Stacy Asenius did it. So I just messaged her. I am a very logical person. I like to research things. I find facts. And so I was like this. That can't be real. Hardly ever do you find a house that has any kind of interesting background.

[Rob]

Let alone documentation of that.

[David Farrier]

Honestly, everything about this house was like blowing my mind constantly. When we were a writing doctor had this hideous sort of catchphrase that we wrote into a lot of the episodes which was like, but that's just another normal day when you're a dark tourist.

[Rob]

No, that's another day for Bravin.