Flipping Tables Podcast: Episode 11 - "The Well Trained Wife with Tia Levings"

Host: Monte Mader
Guest: Tia Levings
Release Date: April 16, 2025
Duration: Approximately 62 minutes

1. Introduction and Historical Context

Monte Mader opens the episode by delving into the transformation of women's roles post-World War II. She highlights how women, having entered the workforce during the war, relished their newfound financial independence and social interactions. However, a significant propaganda shift in the 1950s promoted the ideal of the "perfect housewife" through pervasive advertisements depicting women as happy homemakers, eager to embrace domestic life.

Monte (00:00): "While the men were at war, women had gone out to work for the very first time. They didn't want to go back to just being stay-at-home wives."

She draws parallels between the 1950s movement and today's "Trad Wife" movement, noting the resurgence of traditional gender roles through modern advertising and social media.

2. Introducing Tia Levings and Her Journey

Monte introduces Tia Levings, the author of "The Well Trained Wife," commending her for the book's profound resonance with her own experiences growing up in the church. Monte expresses admiration for Tia's transition from Christian patriarchy to advocating for personal healing and progressive ideals.

Monte (02:51): "I read Tia Livings' book in one day... she is just an inspirational beacon of light."

3. Tia's Early Life and Introduction to Faith

Tia shares her childhood in rural Upper Michigan, where church was a sporadic part of life, primarily centered around major holidays like Christmas and Easter. Her family's move to Florida at age ten marked a significant deepening of religious involvement as they joined a large mega church. This period saw Tia increasingly immersed in mainstream evangelical culture, attending church six days a week and participating in the fervent, politicized evangelical movement of the late '80s and early '90s.

Tia (03:37): "So I was, in the trenches of mainstream evangelical culture in the late '80s and early '90s."
Monte (05:34): "What changed with your parents going from... every day?"

4. The Shift to a High-Control Religious Environment

As Tia and her sister entered puberty, their parents grew increasingly concerned about their well-being, leading them to a more insular and controlled church environment. This mega church in Jacksonville promoted a "wholesome" and "safe" environment, isolating the children from outside influences and reinforcing strict adherence to religious doctrines.

Tia (06:24): "They promoted a wholesome environment, and my parents trusted I was in a wholesome environment."

Monte echoes the detrimental effects of this indoctrination, emphasizing how forcing children to commit to a faith at a young age impedes their personal development and autonomy.

Monte (07:19): "Putting on children that you have to decide where you're gonna spend eternity when you're four or five years old."

5. Adolescence: Rebellion and Abuse

During her early teens, Tia experiences cultural shock moving to a Southern Baptist church. Feeling like an outsider due to her appearance and awkwardness, she enters a rebellious phase, seeking solace in reading and forming risky friendships. This period culminates in a traumatic sexual assault, which deeply impacts her relationship with faith and sets the stage for future struggles within her marriage.

Tia (08:56): "I was gangly and awkward... I hated everything about where we were."

6. Marriage and Sustained Abuse

Tia recounts her swift engagement and marriage to Alan, another church member, within a year of meeting him. Their relationship is marked by escalating abuse, including physical violence and sexual assault on their wedding night. Despite these red flags, Tia remains trapped in the relationship, conditioned to believe that obedience and compliance would lead to divine blessings.

Tia (19:05): "We were engaged after that first month."
Tia (10:48): "He cuffed me in the neck and left me on a beach in a storm, alone and threatened."

Monte highlights the insidious nature of purity culture, where women are burdened with the responsibility to appease their husbands and bear the blame for any relational issues.

Monte (12:28): "I internalized the shame. We weren't taught anything about sex at all."

7. The Illusion of Wholesome Evangelicalism

The conversation shifts to the deceptive veneer of evangelical communities that promise happiness and fulfillment through strict adherence to gender roles. Tia discusses how these communities suppress dissent, label questioning individuals as heretics, and perpetuate cycles of abuse by enforcing submission and discouraging personal agency.

Tia (21:27): "If you do everything, everything will be fine. Because that's what God blesses: obedience."

8. The Breaking Point and Escape

Tia describes her harrowing escape from an abusive marriage in 2007, narrowly avoiding a murder-suicide with her children. This traumatic event propelled her into a journey of healing, during which she struggled with enduring shame imposed by her upbringing. It wasn't until her second marriage, which mirrored some of the high-control dynamics of her first, that Tia fully recognized the need to prioritize her well-being over societal and religious expectations.

Tia (32:47): "My escape was an actual physical, harrowing escape. By midnight, after being held hostage for four hours, I narrowly escaped a murder suicide with my children."

Monte and Tia discuss the importance of redefining self-worth outside the confines of religiously imposed shame and the necessity of reclaiming personal identity.

Tia (35:25): "Learning to take each situation and use the proper name for it... that helped me divest from shame."

9. Healing and Overcoming Shame

Tia outlines her path to healing, emphasizing the critical role of language in understanding and addressing abuse. Through writing her memoir and subsequent works, she was able to recontextualize her experiences, recognize systemic failures, and absolve herself of misplaced guilt.

Tia (35:25): "Trust those doubts completely. You are in charge of your pace. Nobody should rush you."

Monte connects these insights to the broader implications of purity culture, where women are unjustly held accountable for men's actions, fostering environments ripe for abuse and psychological harm.

10. Broader Impact of Evangelicalism on Men and Women

The discussion shifts to the pervasive influence of evangelicalism on both genders. Tia and Monte explore how strict religious doctrines contribute to the alienation and emotional suppression of men, leading to loneliness, violence, and mental health struggles. They stress the importance of addressing these issues holistically to foster genuine healing and equality.

Tia (43:27): "Everyone suffers in patriarchy. There's no like, the men seem like they come out ahead."

11. Tia's Advocacy and Future Outlook

Tia shares her active role in advocating for change, leveraging her personal narrative to educate and empower others. She emphasizes the necessity of presenting counter-narratives to dismantle harmful traditions and foster a more compassionate, inclusive society.

Tia (44:56): "Keep telling the true stories... offer them that choice and say, here's some outcome, this is how that worked out for me."

Monte reflects on the critical need to support both women and men in breaking free from restrictive religious environments, advocating for comprehensive approaches to healing and personal growth.

12. Tia's Upcoming Works and Final Thoughts

Tia discusses her new book, "The Soul of Healing," a survivor's guide to recovering from religious trauma. She also teases her forthcoming novel, a modern retelling of the biblical Book of Job from a woman's perspective, highlighting themes of resistance and empowerment.

Tia (50:17): "My Soul of Healing is a fire inside of me that I have to maintain... it fuels the change that we need."

Monte and Tia conclude by encouraging listeners, particularly women in stifling traditional environments, to take gradual steps toward self-trust and personal liberation.

Tia (60:01): "Don't feel like it has to be all or nothing... trust yourself."

Monte highly recommends Tia's book and expresses gratitude for her contributions to the show, underscoring the importance of voices like Tia's in fostering societal change.

Monte (61:20): "I have a lot of hope that we are still gonna turn the ship in a positive direction."

13. Where to Find Tia Levings

For those interested in Tia's work and continuing the conversation, she can be found across all major platforms as "Levings Writer." Her Substack, tlevings.substack.com, features daily deconstructions of fundamentalism, and her books are available wherever books are sold.

Key Takeaways

• Impact of Evangelicalism: The episode underscores the deep-seated influence of evangelical and patriarchal structures on both women and men, leading to abuse, suppression of individuality, and mental health struggles.

• Personal Journey to Healing: Tia's narrative illustrates the challenging path from indoctrination and abuse to self-discovery and healing, emphasizing the importance of language and storytelling in this process.

• Advocacy and Change: Both Tia and Monte advocate for sharing true stories as a means to dismantle harmful traditions and support those still entangled in restrictive religious environments.

• Holistic Support: The conversation highlights the necessity of addressing the emotional and psychological well-being of both genders to break free from cycles of abuse and loneliness perpetuated by rigid religious doctrines.

Notable Quotes

• Monte (00:00): "The Trad Wife movement is in full bloom. You can walk into anthropology or Target and see these long little House on the Prairie dresses."

• Tia (07:19): "They didn't have the goal of producing an autonomous adult with agency. That is not what they want."

• Tia (35:25): "Use the proper name for it, call it marital rape, call it manipulation... that helped me divest from shame."

• Tia (43:27): "Everyone suffers in patriarchy. There's no like, the men seem like they come out ahead."

• Tia (60:01): "Don't feel like it has to be all or nothing... Trust yourself."

This episode of "Flipping Tables" provides a profound exploration of the entrenched patriarchal and evangelical structures that shape individual lives and societal norms. Through Tia Levings' powerful testimony, listeners gain insight into the complexities of escaping abusive environments, the enduring impact of religious trauma, and the path toward personal and collective healing.