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- [00:00]
Monty Mater
If you grew up in youth culture in the church in the 1990s or the 2000s, you are very familiar with today's topic, which is purity culture. This idea that women were sold that focus your life on your future husband, your sexuality, your ownership, and also it will give you so many blessings if you choose to follow these rules, these rules that were conveniently always directed at young women and even young girls as young as 7 or 8 or 9, and that the responsibility solely fell on women. But men were the leaders. It is a culture that has fostered abuse and psychological damage and physical damage to many young women across the country. And we're gonna talk about it today. So we're gonna do a little bit of a split episode today. I'm gonna talk about purity culture, and then I'm gonna invite a guest whose life and marriage was directly impacted by these views. We're gonna do a little intro about what is purity culture, what does it mean, what does it teach? What are some of the negative impacts?
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Jubilee Dawn
And.
- [00:59]
Monty Mater
And then my very special guest, Jubilee dawn, is gonna come on with us and talk about her story and get a real life perspective on the damage from purity culture. So buckle up for today's episode of Flipping Tables. Welcome back to this episode of Flipping Tables where we talk about purity culture. I've been building this episode for a while because in my personal opinion, this is one of the most harmful things that Christian nationalism, fundamentalism, and the church as a whole does to young women. And I grew up right in the heat of it, in the thick of it with books like I Kiss Dating Goodbye and True Love Waits, all these things. And I think it's super harmful. But first, I just want to say thank you so much again to my Patreon supporters who have made this possible for me as this. As I'm recording this, I'm in June, where I've recently overcome a big health scare, in part because of my Patreon user support to allow me to pursue medical care. And I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of that and for your support. And also I wanna say that moving forward into July, I have been able to quit one of my jobs to focus more fully on this content full time. And I will also be starting to release merch lines. I have found a graphic designer that I love and there will be little new pieces of merch that come out every week and those will be on my new website that's being built. There's a lot of really cool things happening and I just wanted to express my gratitude because if it weren't for you listening to me, none of those things would happen. So let's dive in. Let's talk about the origins and the rise of purity culture. Purity culture emerged as a dominant force in American evangelical Christianity in the 1990s. It was building upon early religious and political movements from the 1970s and 80s. Those movements in the 70s and 80s were conservative backlash to the sexual revolution of the 1960s. And the rise of the religious right that occurred in the 1980s opposed this movement. Organizations like Focus on the Family, Concerned Women for America, and the Moral Majority, led by figures like Jerry Falwell and James Dobson, promoted a vision of American life grounded in patriarchal gender roles, traditional marriage and abstinence until marriage. And just a reminder that Jerry Falwell was so racist, he started another school to prevent black students from attending his schools. And James Dobson was mentored by a white supremacist eugenicist who believed that white women should not be able to marry outside their race and they should not be able to leave abusive marriages or take birth control. Just a reminder. The 1990s saw the explosion of formal purity campaigns that were widely disseminated through churches and youth groups, Christian schools, and homeschool curriculums. One of the most notable was True Love Waits, launched by the Southern Baptist convention in 1993, which encouraged teenagers to sign virginity pledges and wear purity rings. So you've heard me talk about the culture of parents, especially fathers, giving their daughters purity rings. Purity culture, Purity contracts. This comes from the Southern Baptist Convention in the 80s. The movement framed sexual purity as a gift to one's future spouse, one's future husband most of the time, and to God, often using language of covenant and sacred duty. Books like I Kiss dating Goodbye in 1997 by Joshua Harris helped codify these values. Harris's book argued that dating led to emotional and sexual baggage and promoted courtship under parental oversight as the only godly path to marriage. This ideology positioned women as gatekeepers of sexual morality and painted any deviation from abstinence, real or perceived, as spiritually, emotionally and physically damaging. I do want to say that Joshua Harris has since rejected these views and publicly denounced his participation in this scenario. But the damage, honestly, has kind of already been done because this led to this belief that. That sexual morality was this very narrow view. And while, you know, submit to men, only men can be leaders. They also taught that men can't control their sexual urges. So if anything happens to you sexually as a woman, well, that's your fault. The core belief and practices of Purity culture is not just about abstaining from sex. It's a comprehensive worldview that linked a woman's worth to her sexual behavior and her appearance. This is also what gave rise to a lot of the weight loss culture in the church. So let's talk about these core values. The first core value of purity culture is virginity equals value. A girl or woman's inherent worth is measured by her virginity. Once lost, even if it's through abuse, she was frequently portrayed as damaged goods, chewed gum, a used car, or any type of used or defective object. The second was modesty doctrine. Girls were taught to dress modestly to avoid leading boys and men into sin. This instilled the belief that women were responsible for men's thoughts and actions and that their bodies were inherently dangerous. So much to say on this. And often the scripture where Paul talks about women being modest in the church is used to promote this worldview. When Paul's specific directive was to not flaunt women wealth, it was. It was an intentional misreading of scripture to promote this. Number three. They promoted courtship over dating. Emotional attachment outside of any intended marriage was discouraged. Women were to guard their hearts, often refraining from even harmless physical or emotional connections, lest they give away pieces of themselves before marriage. They would say things for, to me growing up that even if you did things like holding hands and, and it wasn't leading to marriage, you were giving parts of yourself away that should be reserved for your husband. They pitch this idea as that this centers you in your faith and centers you to God. It does not. It centers you to a man. It centers you to this imaginary man that you may never meet and that your body's only value is not to you and your choices and your own decisions, but to a man that you will later marry and then serve. Number four people. Purity culture enforces strict gender roles. It's deeply hierarch. Higher. Oh, that's a hard word today. Hierarchical. It establishes a hierarchy. There we go. And it's very patriarchal. Men were cast as leaders and providers, while women were to be submissive, pure, nurturing wives and mothers and quiet. Don't be disruptive. Speak softly. That's why when you hear certain conservative women that are like on the religious side, not the maga side, the religious side, they all talk with this kind of baby voice. That's, that's a extension of purity culture because you weren't supposed to speak with your full voice or God forbid, yell like I spend a lot of time doing. And then lastly, it was based on fear this was a lot of fear based messaging. Youth events, books and Bible studies often featured metaphors designed to instill fear. Roses with missing petals, tapes that lost its stickiness, the threat of hell, hearts with pieces torn away that couldn't heal. Sexual sin was likened to spiritual death and irrevocable ruin. Now obviously a teaching like this, and that's not to say that men weren't in certain areas taught purity culture. This was very much pushed towards women because the church cannot function without gender roles. And because of this, this explicitly was pressed on women. Even though this is not biblical, they will say in the Old Testament, well, God says in the Old Testament that women need to be virgins. Women were objects in the Old Testament. And again, it's, it's intentionally ignoring historical context of biblical passages because in the Bible, women were property. They didn't have human rights, they had no rights whatsoever. They did not even have sexual agency. When you read the scripture, the way that it address addresses sex, is that an object or, excuse me, a person with sexual agency, which is always a man, has sex to an object, not with an object. He performs a sexual act on an object, not with the object. Women did not have sexual agency. So the reason that you had to be a virgin was, was because it was about guaranteeing that your heir was yours. And it's because they owned women like they owned property. That's not something we want to emulate. It was not because of some moral high ground. It was about ownership, patriarchy, and the abuse and subjugation of women. So obviously this has had enormous negative impacts on women. The first being shame and psychological trauma. There's so much guilt and shame around sexuality, even if you have sexual feelings which are totally normal for women. For many girls growing up in purity culture, normal sexual development was accompanied by intense guilt and shame. Sexual thoughts, masturbation, or simply developing physically were treated as sins to be suppressed. I cannot tell you how badly girls who developed big chests were treated in the church. They were ostracized, they were humiliated, and there's something that they could do nothing about. This created a cycle of guilt and anxiety. And many women internalized the belief that their bodies were sinful, shameful and dangerous. Even the survivors of sexual abuse were often made to feel impure and responsible for their own abuse. Because the culture framed all sexual activity outside of marriage as equally sinful, it offers little room to distinguish between consensual and non consensual experiences. It does not matter if your father abused you, he took your value away. Some women Reported being told to forgive and move on and that their assault was punishment for their own spiritual failure. Number two, this leads to a lot of sexual dysfunction and marriage problems. Well, no shit. You tell women their whole life that virginity is their only value, that sex is dirty and it's shameful and it makes them used. And then on their wedding night, you expect them to flip a switch and be totally okay with sexual encounters. The very purity messaging that was supposed to protect young women's futures led to significant sexual dysfunction within marriage. Many women who had spent years repressing sexual thoughts and behaviors were expected to become instant porn stars and instantly comfortable and enthusiastic about sex the second they walk into the bedroom with their husband. But for those who were sec, who had been treated this way sexually, and who had sexually repressed their sexuality, this is psychologically jarring. You can't flip the switch like that. It also is a breeding ground for sexual abuse within a marriage. When you have a young woman who has no sexual education, she doesn't understand her sexuality. She has had no opportunity to explore what she likes, what she doesn't like. It turns into functionally that same sexual dynamic in ancient times, where sex is happening to her, not with her. Women in marriages reported feelings of guilt, anxiety during consensual marital sexual. Some experienced a physical condition called vaginismus, which is deep pain, physical pain, having sex. Women experience low libido or an aversion to physical intimacy. Again, of course, because you've been told your whole life that this dirty, evil, vile thing that you'll never be forgiven for, that you'll never recover for, is now something you're supposed to do anytime your husband wants it. Because purity culture not just shamed women's sexuality and restricted women's choice and treated it as this vile sin, but it also gave your sexuality to your husband. It's for his use, and they tell you you can never tell your husband no. And obviously, the lack of comprehensive sex education leaves many women unequipped to advocate for their own pleasure, their own consent, or their own safety now. 3. The loss of autonomy and voice. Purity culture taught women to defer to male authority, their fathers before marriage and their husbands after. Women were told that God's will was mediated through male leadership and that obedience to these structures was a divine requirement. This dynamic often led to women to stay in abusive or controlling relationships out of fear that leaving would mean spiritual failure or divine punishment. The this is why the Christian nationalist and the alt right and the fundamentalist movement opposes education for women because they do not want women to develop enough critical thinking skills and to have the knowledge to understand that they do not have to defer to male leadership. They do not want women to believe that they can have their own relationship with God that is not mediated by a male figure. Education, options, resources, even things like homosexuality and the existence of of the LGBTQ community threatens this structure. They do not want women to have choice. That's why the church does not advocate for consent. That's why they don't advocate for protecting victims of sexual assault from things like being forced to carry a pregnancy or even protection from their own fathers if their father is their abuser. Because functionally, they do not believe in choice for women and they do not want women to have those choices or those protections. This culture dismissed female desire or agency. They. They often act like women don't like sex. Well, women don't have strong sex drives, and if you do, you're defective. But then husbands complain that their wife doesn't have sex enough with them. None of those things are true. Women have varying libidos, the same as men do. And women should have agency the same as men do. But that's not taught within this culture. Women are rarely taught that they have the right to say no or even to articulate what they want. That makes you a dirty if you say what you want in the bedroom, well, where did you learn that from? Or if you say you don't like something, then you're rejecting your husband, and if he cheats on you, well, that's your fault. Consent is not a topic of the conversation. Impurity. Teaching sex is framed not as mutual act of love and trust, but a marital duty. And then you wonder why married Christian women treat it like a job. Because that's what you've told them. And you haven't taught them anything about love or how beautiful intimacy can be or sexual pleasure. You've dismissed the fact that women can have orgasms. And you tell men, young men in the church, though, that's not real. The lack of identity beyond marriage and motherhood. Women were taught from a young age that their ultimate calling is to be wives and mothers. They are often told that this is God's divine calling for them, even though the Bible contradicts that. But they will say that women have have to do this. Your identity is centered on preparing for a future husband through homemaking skills. Submission training. Yes, submission training. I like to call it submission grooming because it's Christian nationalists who are grooming children, not the LGBTQ community or the leftists. And self policing behavior. Careers, ambitions, or intellectual pursuits were considered secondary or distractions from a woman's true purpose. This leaves many women floundering if they never married or they got married later in life or they married someone. Abusive if a woman divorced, her community often shunned her or blamed her for not trying hard enough to save the marriage. It leads to a mistrust of the body and a disconnection from self modesty. Teachings encourage girls to view their body as a stumbling block to men's purity. This instills body dysmorphia, disordered eating, and a chronic mistrust of one's own feelings and desires. Women learn to disconnect from their own bodily cues in order to be pure, ignoring sexual curiosity, sexual desire, menstruation, related shame, and even medical needs. When reproductive health is viewed as taboo, the result was not just discomfort but an alienation from your own body. Women were taught to filter their own experience and decisions through the patriarchal moral lens instead of being empowered to understand and trust themselves. By the mid-2010s, the negative consequences of purity culture began surfacing wildly and everywhere as more and more women came forward with their stories in books, blogs, and social media. Former proponents like Joshua Harris I mentioned earlier, publicly apologized and renounced their teaching. And Harris even disavowed his best selling book and later left the Christian faith altogether because, to Harris's credit, he recognized the harm and the damage of these teachings. Movements like Church 2, which is a spin off of MeToo, highlighted sexual abuse within religious settings and how purity culture enabled victim blaming and silence. Survivors began to reclaim their narratives and challenged the toxic theology. They advocated for healthier understandings of consent, sexuality, and gender. There are now therapists who specialize in religious sexual trauma. Reported increases in patients grappling with the aftermath of purity culture, especially women raised in evangelical settings. Terms like purity culture, PTSD and religious trauma syndrome have become more commonly used. However, the church hasn't removed its teachings on purity culture. It hasn't removed its belief in these hierarchies that require a men constantly be dominant over a woman. So while purity culture's influence still lingers in conservative spaces, younger Christians called the exvangelicals, which is the space I work in and other spiritual seekers like myself are turning to sex positive theology, trauma, informed pastoral care, and feminist interpretations of scripture. Why? Because we understand that purity culture is still being taught in Christian nationalist circles, in Christian fundamentalism, and that young women, if they choose to be Christians, which is their choice, should still understand consent, sexual agency sex education and also be protected from abuse. This is another reason that while the church screams about the LGBTQ grooming children or sex education is grooming children, it's not. It's protecting their daughters. But they're not interested in that because much like the Old Testament, most of the church that stays in these purity culture settings in this Christian nationalism, in this fundamentalism, doesn't, at its core, see women as people. They see women as property, as livestock, whose purpose is to fill their pews with new children that they can exploit for the rest of their life. Women have carried enough of this damage moving forward, and it is changing in certain circles, and it's not changing. So it's also important that we're aware of this. Purity culture has a huge impact on the abortion stance of these fundamentalist churches. It is much easier to advocate taking choice away from woman in her pregnancy if you take choice away from her sexuality to begin with. And that's my summary on purity culture. So for those of you that didn't grow up in church, you have a sense of what it is, what it causes. For those of you who grew up in this, I hope that this next segment heals you. I hope that you see that your body is wonderful and lovely. Your sexuality is holy and you are sacred. Your body is not sinful. It is not a stumbling block. Our lust is our own. Each individual person, male or female or anything else, is responsible for their own thoughts and their own actions. And with that, I'm going to welcome to the episode Jubilee Dawn Jubilee. Hi. Thank you for being on Flipping Tables. I'm glad we finally made it work.
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Jubilee Dawn
We did. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for having me.
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Monty Mater
And as you know, I've talked a little bit in this episode already about purity culture and the impacts that it has on women, our relationships, our marriage, our sexuality. And I just want to really dive into what you cover on your platform and your story, because you and I very similarly grew up in these same kind of doctrines. So I'm just, one, excited for you to be here. Two, I'm really thankful for your platform and for what you do. It's so important, and it's giving voice to a lot of people who felt that they couldn't speak about this, but I'm just going to let you take it away. Like, just. Just tell us a little bit at first, like, how you grew up. What was that environment like?
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Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, so I grew up in a very. What they would say was non denominational. I feel like the older I get the more I'm like, this was so evangelical, you know, like very much that sector. But we were casual Christians. I mean, we would go to church for a good four months, and then my parents, we would kind of drop off, and then we'd go back and we'd be rededicated to do it again. We're gonna do it again, you know, and it only lasted, I mean, maybe a year, and then we would fall off again. But it was a very core part of our lives. So the idea that we are going to get married and where you're going to stay pure, that was a very forefront thought in just growing up. And then the way that it really started to become a huge part of my life is when I got involved in my youth group, so.
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Monty Mater
And how old were you when you got involved in youth group?
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Jubilee Dawn
I think I was around 13 or 14 years old. So my cousins had been going there and they invited us to go just so that we could all hang out. And, yeah, we just, like, really drank the Kool Aid at this place and, you know, we started to attend all of the summer camps and make all of our friends there. So it was a huge part of my growing up experience. And looking back at youth group, it's so funny to me to realize it feels like 25% of what we talked about was purity.
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Monty Mater
If you're a girl.
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Jubilee Dawn
If you're a girl, you know. Yeah. I mean, like the guys, yes, they were told, protect a girl's heart, but it was really on the women to try to protect them from themselves, which I feel like is such a disservice to men as well, because you're training up these. Or training up. That's the language they use. But, you know, they're raising these men and you're teaching them that they can't control themselves. Like, you're just this monster who you can't control any of your thoughts. And we feel scared of the men in our life because we're being told that they can't control themselves. And it's up to us to make sure that we are wearing the right things. So this looked like us wearing T shirts on top of our bathing suits whenever we went out and did our summer camps and stuff like that. And we even had an entire week called sex camp Jesus.
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Monty Mater
Pun intended.
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Jubilee Dawn
Jesus is right. No, I remember. It's hard for me to remember if the leaders called it that, but I know that they know that we were all calling it that. And it was not discouraged. It was this ongoing joke that we were going to go and have sex camp, which was really just a purity weekend, where we were all supposed to go and learn about how important it is to stay pure. And it was very shame inducing to be there. And the entire weekend is just revolved around that. And we would break into guy and girl groups and have little small groups about what sin we might be struggling with. And you're expected to confess all of these things to these people. And I remember there was a girl there who was very holy. She was. Imagine there's always one which she deconstructed when she was like 18. And I remember I was so concerned for her at the time. But she was very popular in the youth group. And I remember her saying that even if you hold someone's hand and if you feel any butterfly or you're turned on, that's a sin. Anything that makes you really feel anything at all is sinful. So that is really how I was being raised to believe that it needed to be this very extreme version of purity. And what's so funny is looking back on youth group, there was so much sexual activity going on in the youth group and way more than in high school. I went through, like, I had friends who were lost their virginity underneath a portable behind the church. And all this stuff is happening during youth group. And this did not work. I mean, the kids were very much still sexually active.
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Monty Mater
Well, and it is all lip service. And that's one of the things I was talking to somebody the other day about growing up. Because I grew up very fundamentalist and very Baptist. And it was always the most conservative families that were the most homophobic or the most strict about their daughters, or the most this or the most that that were either totally rampant with just sexual activity in general or extremely sexually abusive every time. Like, the louder it got, the more activity there was. And is there. Are there particular moments in that period of your life that you remember, you know, hearing a teaching or hearing something that made you go like, ugh. Like, did any of it ever like really make you feel uncomfortable? Or did you just kind of buy in and you're like, okay, going for it? I love Jesus.
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Jubilee Dawn
I think I bought into the whole purity aspect. I think one thing that did make me cringe was it was at a different church. Actually, probably when we were church hopping, they had us go to a youth group near our house and they had us stand up. Well, they gave us a six week course on purity. Imagine spending six weeks just on purity at youth group.
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Monty Mater
It's almost like they're obsessed with Sex.
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Jubilee Dawn
It's almost like. Which what you're saying is so true. I have found that a lot of the most religious fundamentalist people in my life, there's so much hidden abuse in those families and there is definitely a pattern. So I do remember feeling uncomfortable when we did that six week course. And then they kind of surprised us and told us that our parents were there.
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Monty Mater
And that, oh, that just hurt my heart.
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Jubilee Dawn
Bring in the parents. God, I know. So they brought in the parents and they said, we want everybody to stand up. And they start handing out these little business cards that say, you know, I solemnly swear that I'm going to stay a virgin until marriage. And we had to repeat after the pastor and then sign this business card pledging our virginity to your parents. To our parents. To our parents.
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Monty Mater
And we're going to take a break from our original programming to do a special segment called Youth Pastors Gone Wild. This is something Jubilee does on her page where people submit the wild that they experienced as youth growing up in the church and purity culture. Jubilee, take it away.
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Jubilee Dawn
Okay, so first one, the youth pastor at my church told me that I needed to wipe off my lip gloss because it was tempting him and the other men, mind you, it was a kids Disney princess product and I was nine years old.
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Monty Mater
Oh my God. Ew.
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Jubilee Dawn
I know. And it's like that, that line of thinking is so common. I've heard so many people say, and I'm like, you should not be tempted by a nine year old.
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Monty Mater
It's like that seems like a you problem, sir. What about the whole gouge your eye out real quick. Jesus said, your lust is your problem.
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Jubilee Dawn
But just imagine saying that that's to.
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Monty Mater
A nine year old.
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Jubilee Dawn
A nine year old. Yeah, it's crazy. Okay, next.
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Monty Mater
Ready?
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Jubilee Dawn
Do I just go through?
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Monty Mater
Okay, just read them off. I'm going to just react and throw.
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Jubilee Dawn
Up a little bit. Perfect. My youth pastor gave a sermon at a youth service comparing women's purity to cars and said, of course men want to test drive used cars, but they will have no doubt in the corner of a new car again.
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Monty Mater
Cause nothing says like equality and love and respect like turning someone into an object.
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Jubilee Dawn
Yes. And comparing to a car.
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Monty Mater
Comparing you to a car. And then like again, the chewed up gum one was really popular in my house. The sticky note that can't stick anymore.
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Jubilee Dawn
Yes, the tape.
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Monty Mater
Oh, and the. What was the pencil sharpener one? There was one about that too.
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Jubilee Dawn
Like, I believe it.
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Monty Mater
All kinds of household items.
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Jubilee Dawn
All right, number three. Okay. @ youth group, they sent all of the boys outside and then proceeded to tell all of the girls that if their husbands ever cheated on them, it was their fault.
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Monty Mater
Oh. Oh, that's James Dobson right there. You just need to submit more. If you met his needs, he wouldn't go looking.
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Jubilee Dawn
Which this is what upsets me too with. I mean, they think so little of men like that, they can't control it.
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Monty Mater
You're just some rabid animal.
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Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. Okay. One church I went to used to make the youth girls once per week dress up for a date night with Christ. And it was always hosted by a middle aged man alone. Gross. Why? Gross, gross, gross.
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Monty Mater
Why? Because you hit the, you had the, the period of time, I think we overlapped here where like the dating Jesus thing where it's like, oh, absolutely, I don't date. I'm dating Jesus. And the, the I kiss dating goodbye phase.
- [30:33]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. Oh, that book traumatized. I was doing a cringe book club for a while. Yes. That's one.
- [30:41]
Monty Mater
That's top of my list.
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Jubilee Dawn
A rough time to be alive. Okay. When I was 12 years old and a child in youth group, the teacher told us that we were all going to hell. And that is how she started the lesson and proceeded to teach all of us how we could now get saved. She literally said that all children are marked for hell unless they submit to God.
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Monty Mater
Wow. Wow.
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Jubilee Dawn
So just being like you are going to hell.
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Monty Mater
Yes.
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Jubilee Dawn
And now I'm going to tell you how to not not do that.
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Monty Mater
We're just gonna lead with here's where you're going.
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Jubilee Dawn
Jeez.
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Monty Mater
Yeah, but it's gay people that groom children, right?
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Jubilee Dawn
Absolutely. Don't you know?
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Monty Mater
Don't you know God?
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Jubilee Dawn
Okay. My youth pastor took us on tour of a funeral home, including an embalming room, to talk about death and hell.
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Monty Mater
What? Why?
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Jubilee Dawn
Fear. Fear. I think it's like worst case scenario. Let's just scare. It's like scaring the kids straight. You know that TV show? Yep. It's exactly what that is.
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Monty Mater
Except every youth group.
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Jubilee Dawn
Every single one. Yeah. There was a lot of fear. I think that we did. Actually they did a skit at my youth group once where it was like somebody went to hell. And oh wait, I remember. This was so traumatizing. It was their friend died in a car accident. They went to hell. And then their friend from hell was like, why didn't you tell me?
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Monty Mater
Oh yeah, because then it's your fault if someone goes to hell. If you didn't share your faith.
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Jubilee Dawn
Yes. So why didn't you tell me from hell? So Which. Yeah. When I was 11, we had a 24 hour prayer program in the church. And while we were in there, youth leaders received a call that a little girl was severely sick. We spent almost six hours praying for her before we went home. They told us that her life was hanging on our prayers. The little girl eventually died and I had to deal with the guilt of her death because I didn't pray hard enough. And they said, not a good idea to tell a bunch of 11 year olds that their friend died because they didn't pray hard enough.
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Monty Mater
Holy damn. I didn't get that one.
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Jubilee Dawn
I know.
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Monty Mater
That was one. Oh. When you're 11 and like, I mean, when you're a little kid and like your parents break up, you think it's your fault. Of course, if this happens and the adult in the room's like, well, you didn't pray hard enough, of course you're gonna think it's your fault. That's awful.
- [33:13]
Jubilee Dawn
Which that's the problem with these faith sectors too, where they believe that anything can be done through faith. Because I knew a girl from Bethel who, I mean, I'm surprised she was even interested in the charismatic world because this was so traumatizing. But her sister, because her parents refused to take her to the doctor because they didn't believe in medicine, and they made her pray over her sister's body to try to raise her from the dead. Oh, my God.
- [33:39]
Monty Mater
Oh, my God.
- [33:39]
Jubilee Dawn
The parents actually went to prison and. Well, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was all over the news. And she confided in us that that was her story and that her parents were in prison for the neglect of her sister.
- [33:53]
Monty Mater
So it's a prey over her own sister's dead body.
- [33:57]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes.
- [33:57]
Monty Mater
Holy shit.
- [34:00]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, so that is a bit darker.
- [34:02]
Monty Mater
Cult, cult, cult. Next.
- [34:06]
Jubilee Dawn
Absolutely. I'm like, if not cults, why cult shaped? Why cult shaped? And this one is a shout out to the Mormons.
- [34:17]
Monty Mater
Yes.
- [34:18]
Jubilee Dawn
I was told by my ex's youth leader that all kids born with disabilities are being punished for the of their parents because their parents were bad Mormons. And at the time I was with my cousin who was in a wheelchair.
- [34:35]
Monty Mater
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But that's also, that's another thing, is they're like, if you get sick, if you get cancer, one, you can pray it away and heal them. But also if God doesn't heal it, it just means that you're sinful and you're getting what you deserve.
- [34:49]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. The wrath of God. That's what it is.
- [34:52]
Monty Mater
And like, so there's an out. Either way, if the prayer gets answered, well then that's God. If the prayer doesn't get. Doesn't get answered, it's your fault.
- [34:59]
Jubilee Dawn
Absolutely. There's an answer for everything all the time. Okay. These are a little more inappropriate. Okay. Which I'm like, it's sad how normal these are. It. Yeah. Actually one person who's going to be on my podcast, she had a relationship with her youth pastor. So this is.
- [35:18]
Monty Mater
Unfortunately, these youth pastors are stressing me out.
- [35:20]
Jubilee Dawn
I got. Well, they're not checked by anyone. I think that they're running rogue. So my youth pastor used to anonymously leave me love notes in my Bible. He would also call me from his day job on his work phone to tell me that he missed me. And he told me that I was the prettiest girl that he. He had ever seen. He was married with four kids and I was 15 years old. Yeah, 15.
- [35:52]
Monty Mater
And what's not shocking about that is that I know so many people that either dated their youth pastor or were pursued by their youth pastor. Like very common.
- [36:03]
Jubilee Dawn
And it's not. And best case scenario, yeah, best case.
- [36:06]
Monty Mater
Scenario, when they turn 18, magically they get married, you know, Right. When she turns 18. But nothing happened before this. Like, yeah, sure it didn't. Uh huh. And then of course, when you're a young girl, so you're in this, this worldview of centering your life around a man choosing you. And then this quote, godly man goes out of his way to choose you and he tells you all the right things and your frontal lobe isn't developed yet. And it like, you can easily buy into that at 14, 15.
- [36:35]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And it's God's will. Somebody that I was talking to recently who had a relationship with their choir director, they. That episode just came out today. But she was saying he had told her that God works in mysterious ways and that the world is not always going to understand God's ways. So he was saying that their relationship was something that God had ordained. It's okay that I'm a pedophile. God says. God says it's fine.
- [37:05]
Monty Mater
He says it's fine because I want to do it.
- [37:10]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, it's scary how many people get behind it. Which. Yeah, that's in some.
- [37:13]
Monty Mater
And cover it up.
- [37:15]
Jubilee Dawn
Absolutely. My youth pastor set up a private meeting with me to discuss all of the detailed details of the sexual encounters that I had had. And I mean all of the details. And then he asked me not to come back to church until I felt sorry. I know for Those of you that.
- [37:39]
Monty Mater
Are seeing this on video and you're listening, I'm just here, like, gagging and waving my arms around because I'm in such distress.
- [37:49]
Jubilee Dawn
No, but that's so common. I've heard that a lot from. Because a lot of people ask me, they're like, where are you getting these comments from? What denomination is this in America? I will say it feels like almost all of my viewers when I go to analytics are all. Or a lot of them are from America. So these are American stories. But a lot of it's evangelical. But there's a good amount of Mormons too. I do maybe like 20%. Maybe 20% are Mormon, I would say.
- [38:13]
Monty Mater
Well, and it's this whole weird thing of like. Because I remember being in a. Like a youth group. I didn't attend youth group that much growing up because I went to the adult services instead. But part of it.
- [38:25]
Jubilee Dawn
Because you were chosen.
- [38:26]
Monty Mater
Because I was chosen, obviously, you know, and. But part of it, I remember, like, one of the few youth groups I went to, they did have this thing where they went around and had everybody confess anything that they had done sexually. And it was like, in part to embarrass you, but I swear the youth pastor got off on it because he would, like. He would like, pry the girls for like, a little more like, did you take your shirt off? Did you take your bra off?
- [38:50]
Jubilee Dawn
He did it.
- [38:51]
Monty Mater
And this is in a, like, co ed room of teenagers. Yep.
- [38:56]
Jubilee Dawn
Wow. Like, my jaw is actually on the floor. Because, I mean, that. That's insane to ask in a group of people. Well, I mean, it's horrible when you're alone too. But to say, did you take your bra off in a room full of your peers and this creepy man who. Which that's the thing. Like, if we're to believe it's all about confessing our sins to God, like, why would this man need to know? And then what did he do next? In what world is that appropriate?
- [39:21]
Monty Mater
Yeah, it's not.
- [39:22]
Jubilee Dawn
Anyway. Anyways. It's not. Okay. Now we have a youth group. Games. At our youth group, they used to line us up in a circle. Boy, girl, boy, girl. The boys had a number and the girls had a letter. And then they would call one of each of us and then we would engage in a wrestling match. What? And the only way I know, the only way to win was for one party to kiss the other on the cheek. What? So I don't know what that has to do with God. Exactly.
- [39:56]
Monty Mater
Like, Jesus is up in heaven smoking a cigarette Being like, what the fuck?
- [40:03]
Jubilee Dawn
No. But you can't wear a tank top. But you can wrestle in a group for the youth pastors to watch. Exactly.
- [40:10]
Monty Mater
Your collarbone's gonna cause a man to sin. But like wrestling one of your peers in front of a middle aged man. Totally fine.
- [40:18]
Jubilee Dawn
And kissing them on the cheek because. Oh, I. Yeah. Why would that ever be what you would need to do? It's just so creepy. I've also heard of people who have said that they had to play Suck and Blow. Do you know that game? Yeah, yeah. They would play Suck and Blow and their youth pastor would play with them. Participate.
- [40:37]
Monty Mater
This is a terrible time to not be able to drink alcohol. Oh, my God.
- [40:42]
Jubilee Dawn
I know. I'm like, we needed drinks for this, right? Exactly.
- [40:44]
Monty Mater
We should, you know, honestly, we should do like a live YouTube or something. We do this live and we just. And every time I start to cringe, I just drink every time I take a shot. Every time. Take a shot. If your youth pastor does, every time I yell Jesus or fuck, just take a drink.
- [41:00]
Jubilee Dawn
No. And they can play at home. They can sit down.
- [41:02]
Monty Mater
Oh, my God. This could be a really fun drinking game. I'm in. I'm on board.
- [41:06]
Jubilee Dawn
It was. Okay, here we go. A guy who was a year older than me that I knew became a youth pastor. He met a girl in his youth group. She was 14, and when she turned 17, her mom signed consent for her daughter to marry him. He was 29 years old when he married her.
- [41:29]
Monty Mater
And the parents are usually so complicit in this.
- [41:34]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And that's what's so scary. I would say I've at least gotten 50, 50 comments of people saying that they knew parents who signed away their children to marry their youth pastors at the age of 16 or 17 years old. Because he's a good guy. He's a good guy.
- [41:51]
Monty Mater
Like, you didn't even give your kid a chance to have a life and figure out who she is. But again, it's like, it's this whole thing of, like, the stripping of personhood from women. That you're a vessel and a machine and your purpose is to reproduce and serve this man. Not that you might have dreams and aspirations of your own, God forbid. Which is my belief, like, in large part why the conservative movement has so demonized education now. Because it gives women a choice. It lets women be people. And we now know, we have research that shows that from the 1950s forward, every time women overtake a career, the median salary goes down, even though they have the same credentials it's the same job. So we see that with, like, librarians. Librarians used to be a job that was very much considered like lawyers. You have to have a master's degree to be a librarian minimum. And when Dewey overhauled the library system, he realized he could hire women and pay them half as much. And now it's kind of this job we poo poo versus computer programming, which used to be all women. When it was overtaken by men, I think the median salary almost quadrupled.
- [43:02]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh, my gosh. I did. Not that.
- [43:03]
Monty Mater
So now that women.
- [43:04]
Jubilee Dawn
No, but that's so on brand.
- [43:05]
Monty Mater
Yep. Women have overtaken higher education. We outnumber men. We're outperforming men. They're coming out of college, getting higher payments, jobs, and now education's a problem.
- [43:16]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And just being. Being shown to anybody who's different than you, too. I know when I graduated high school, my parents had told me that they would pay for my education as long as I went to a Christian college, you know, and it's because they were. Because they were so afraid that, you know, I was going to. To, you know, go and learn and become a leftist or I was going to, you know, you might dye your.
- [43:44]
Monty Mater
Hair blue and get a septum piercing.
- [43:46]
Jubilee Dawn
God forbid. Not like you.
- [43:49]
Monty Mater
Not like me. It's so funny, too, because people ask me, how long have you had. I got this piercing when I was 30. So I was like, there's more than enough time, guys. There's more than enough time.
- [44:00]
Jubilee Dawn
Do it. Okay, last one. I know a youth pastor who was 26 at the time that he met his now wife, but she was 14 or 15 when they met, and they are now married with a kid, and they started dating when she was 16. And her parents were so for it. So that's. Yeah, it's the parents. I feel like what it is is they're just happy that you're not going to hell. I could see a world where a lot of parents would be like, well, at least you're not going to college. And you're not being swayed from your belief system. What we've raised you in. Yeah. Yeah. Well.
- [44:38]
Monty Mater
And this is because that's the worst.
- [44:39]
Jubilee Dawn
Thing that can happen.
- [44:40]
Monty Mater
What was her last name? It was really big in the news last year. Micah.
- [44:45]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh, Micah Miller.
- [44:46]
Monty Mater
Micah Miller. Yeah. So she, for those of you that don't know the story, she was a young woman. She was. I believe she was separate. Was separated from her husband, trying to divorce him. He's a pastor. She dies very suspiciously. Like he Claims it was suicide. But she had been telling people that he was trying to harm her. She was afraid of him. He had been abusive, like, very questionable death. He had been having this ongoing affair with a member of his congregation who he now just married, like, last week, like, and her husband.
- [45:18]
Jubilee Dawn
Did you hear about this? Her husband had a suspicious death.
- [45:21]
Monty Mater
Yes. So both of their spouses died extremely suspiciously. They just got married this last week, which is, like, on the anniversary of Micah's death. And he had been Micah's youth pastor. Right. And he married her as soon as she turned 18.
- [45:35]
Jubilee Dawn
Well, and he had done the wedding to her first husband.
- [45:38]
Monty Mater
Yep.
- [45:39]
Jubilee Dawn
This was her. Yeah. Oh, that's right.
- [45:41]
Monty Mater
She got married the first time when. Yeah, she got married the first time when she was really young. He officiated the wedding and then later married her.
- [45:49]
Jubilee Dawn
Disgusting. Yeah, just eck. Like there's something so wrong. But I don't know, I feel like just because it's Christian, I think that a lot of people think the worst thing you can be is different than how we raised you. But no, you could be abused. You could have all of these horrible predators coming after you, but it feels like there's no protection or really care about those very serious things of, like, signing your life away at the age of 18. The amount of friends that I have that got married straight out of high school who are now divorced, which thank God that they did get divorced and that they found their way out of these bad situations they were in. But so many people getting married so.
- [46:29]
Monty Mater
Young, it's so dangerous. And again, like, they don't care. The fact that, like, you know, education allows a woman to, like, if her husband dies, she can take care of herself if. It's like, if you truly cared about families, you would promote this in young women because it protects them in the long run. Not having an education and being a stay at home parent are the top two predictors of elder poverty. Like, crazy crazy.
- [46:56]
Jubilee Dawn
They would just say, get married again. That's what they would say.
- [46:59]
Monty Mater
Yeah, just find a new man.
- [47:00]
Jubilee Dawn
Find a new one who will take care of you. It's a very sad situation.
- [47:05]
Monty Mater
I do not have enough damsel in distress in my bloodstream for that nonsense.
- [47:10]
Jubilee Dawn
Which is casually normal, I guess, in these circles. And that was something that I hated. I really did hate.
- [47:18]
Monty Mater
That's just. And it's so, like, embarrassing and, like, on such a open public level because, like, I received. So I was one of the groups that, like, received purity jewelry from my dad. And my dad loved writing a letter. He Loved a good letter. So he wrote me this two to three page letter about the importance of my purity and all this stuff. I'm 13. It was like the tradition in our family was that the girls couldn't get their ears pierced until 13. And then that was when dad gave you your first set of like purity jewelry. And you like, signed this contract with dad, but it was private. It wasn't like he didn't drag me in front of the church, you know, and do that. But it was still. I remember reading that letter and I remember exactly what room I was in. I remember how the room smelled and I remember my stomach just in a knot of like, this feels so weird. It was so gross. Gross.
- [48:12]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And I almost feel like that's worse to have it be private. I don't know, like to have it be where it's this letter being written to you. It's just very intimately strange that these conversations gives.
- [48:24]
Monty Mater
Don't tell your mom about this or don't tell anyone that this is going on.
- [48:29]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. Yeah. That's so uncomfortable. We did the jewelry too.
- [48:34]
Monty Mater
You. You had a purity ring too?
- [48:36]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh, girl, I had a purity ring. And. And then I sinned and then I got another one. And sin to me was just like any making out.
- [48:48]
Monty Mater
Yeah.
- [48:48]
Jubilee Dawn
I kissed a boy. Which actually I did have sex for the first time very young. And I do think that it had to do with these circles. It was with another boy from youth group.
- [48:58]
Monty Mater
Yep.
- [48:58]
Jubilee Dawn
Of course. Of course. And he actually never spoke to me again. Yeah, it was traumatic.
- [49:05]
Monty Mater
Oh, that's horrible. Horrible.
- [49:09]
Jubilee Dawn
So, yeah, it was. It was hard. So I would buy another purity ring. God, I pinky promised this time that I'm going to be good. And I would just continually buy these purity rings every time I felt like I had messed up or I wasn't worthy of to wear this anymore, that I had to remake this commitment constantly.
- [49:28]
Monty Mater
Cuz, like, what did they call it? Like your. What was the phrase for that? Where you can like, get your purity restored?
- [49:36]
Jubilee Dawn
I don't know, but they. They did that at Bethel, where they would actually pray for your hymen to be restored.
- [49:41]
Monty Mater
Exactly. But it was along that line where it's like, okay, well, if you did mess up, you can restore it and you can. Mm, that's a great segue into. Tell me about Bethel.
- [49:52]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh my gosh. Bethel is a whole monster. I think what's funny is I found this thing all on my own. My parents were very non denominational or just evangelical, and I ended up going to a conference where this woman was. And her name was Heidi Baker, and she's very into signs, miracles, healing, and. And she prayed for me to be healed of post traumatic stress disorder because I had been abused when I was younger, and I felt like I was healed when she prayed for me. Looking back on it, I was like bouncing off the walls, and my entire family was. It very much is giving cult of where I felt like I lost my mind during this time. And I was so convinced that I had been healed that I just wanted. Anything that this woman wanted was selling. So I ended up looking her up, and she was affiliated with Bethel, and I found out that they had a supernatural ministry school that I could go to. And I ended up going to this school that was all about speaking in tongues, manifesting in the spirit, raising people from the dead. There was nothing that.
- [51:02]
Monty Mater
My personal favorite is raising people from the dead. That's my favorite brand of miracles.
- [51:09]
Jubilee Dawn
Well, they say it happens all the time.
- [51:10]
Monty Mater
Oh, yeah.
- [51:11]
Jubilee Dawn
You know, it's a conspiracy no one wants to talk about, because that means.
- [51:15]
Monty Mater
That the Bible is true and Jesus rose from the dead, and then they go into their little.
- [51:19]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. Yeah.
- [51:22]
Monty Mater
So then. Because. Especially because I'm familiar with your story and with your content, but my listeners might not be. What was Bethel's role in your marriage? Because your marriage was this big turning point for you.
- [51:33]
Jubilee Dawn
They were a huge part of it. So, I mean, I was wrapped up in this sector. And the way that it felt like at the time is that Bethel people are God's chosen people. Like, in a way, because we get it, or at least charismatic people, they get it, that this is what we should be doing to usher in the second coming of Christ. So we did believe that people who were Baptist or fundamentalists, that they were saved, but that they just weren't helping. Like, you guys aren't helping the cause. You're not helping bring him back. And it felt like you needed to marry someone in that sector. So I was actively looking for someone who had the same beliefs as me, somebody who would be on the same page, that we would raise our family the same way and that we would be revivalists, which is kind of what they say, you gotta bring revival to.
- [52:21]
Monty Mater
The earth, and I gotta usher in the second coming.
- [52:26]
Jubilee Dawn
Absolutely. And it's so main character syndrome. Looking back on it, you know, feel so important because you really think you're doing something really great for the earth. And I did my third year out in Pennsylvania, so I was doing this internship, and that is where I met my Ex. Who I called Ted. And he seemed like such a great guy. Everybody would just talk so positively of him because he was always helping out after after school and showing up early, and he was kind of the super star student at this ministry school. And he helped me find a place to live, which was very. I was so thankful because I was living in this horrible house that had no heat, and I would. Yes. And my landlord was someone who is in the news right now. I don't know if he knew about that. Wait, what? Sean. Sean.
- [53:24]
Monty Mater
Are you serious?
- [53:25]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes.
- [53:26]
Monty Mater
Oh, my God. You have to give the background and the news on him for people who don't know who we're talking about. Really? That was your labor, Lord?
- [53:33]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. And I haven't dived too much into it because it's all. He just drives me insane. But I know that there's a lot of financial stuff going on. That's all I know is that he's really in trouble.
- [53:44]
Monty Mater
What's his last name again?
- [53:45]
Jubilee Dawn
Sean Foyt. Yeah. I always have a hard time saying it.
- [53:49]
Monty Mater
Yeah, he. Yeah. Like, it's a lot of, like, embezzlement, a lot of mis. Proprietary funds, a lot of, like, mistreatment of female co workers. Like a whole host of things.
- [54:02]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah.
- [54:02]
Monty Mater
Oh, my God, everybody.
- [54:04]
Jubilee Dawn
So easy to believe.
- [54:05]
Monty Mater
Well, and also. So he's your landlord having you live in a house in Pennsylvania with no heat.
- [54:12]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. And it was this ministry house, and it's snowing, it's Pennsylvania, it's December, and I am freezing in my room. At the time, I was so broke, which is very. So holy. You know, you feel like I'm so suffering for Christ, and I'm.
- [54:29]
Monty Mater
Everything is suffering for Christ.
- [54:32]
Jubilee Dawn
The more you suffer, the more blessed you are.
- [54:35]
Monty Mater
So I was like riches in heaven.
- [54:39]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And he was my landlord. I never actually spoke to him, but I. Cause I came into the house through my roommates who were renting from him, but we could see our breath in our house. And we just kept begging him to fix the heat. And he didn't forget at least a month. I think it was maybe a month and a half. And I had a little space heater, and that's how we were getting by. And I was just sleeping with multiple pairs of pants and sweaters. And, you know, I was really struggling, and my roommates decided, okay, we can't live in this because he's not fixing it and he's not going to. So they ended up telling me that I had about three days to move out.
- [55:21]
Monty Mater
Geez.
- [55:23]
Jubilee Dawn
And I'm on the phone with my mom. It's. It's ministry school night. So I'm in the church lobby. I'm on the phone with my mom and telling her, I think I'm going to have to quit my internship. I'm going to have to come back home to Texas. And Ted arrives after, and he kind of creepily tells me that he overheard my conversation and he was listening and that he had found me a place to stay for free for the rest of the year, which just made me absolutely adore him, because I felt like he saved me. He had a family friend where they. Their daughter was a missionary, and she was out of the country, so they had this extra room, and they agreed that I could move in. So from then on, him and I just started hanging out more and more, and then we ended up dating. And within one month of dating, Sean Bowles, who is a very big prophetic name in these circles, which, funny enough, Sean Foyt was on his board of directors for Sean Bowles's ministry. So they're all corrupt and all.
- [56:30]
Monty Mater
Yeah, it's a web of just deceit and profiting off people's suffering and confusion.
- [56:35]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, it's horrible. And they all have secrets on each other, so they all just cover each other's secrets. Deep secrets. So I end up. I'm working at this restaurant, and Ted goes to this conference where Sean Bowles is going to be, and Sean ends up calling out my ex and saying that. What did he say exactly? He said, I heard Jubilee, and I heard Jubilee. And I heard that God is giving you Jubilee. Does that mean anything to you?
- [57:09]
Monty Mater
Oh.
- [57:12]
Jubilee Dawn
And he said, oh, my gosh. My. My girlfriend's name is Jubilee. He said, well, God is giving you this girl. And, you know, I have the whole thing on video. It's a ridiculous, ridiculous video.
- [57:24]
Monty Mater
I need to see this video.
- [57:25]
Jubilee Dawn
I'll send it to you. Send it to me.
- [57:27]
Monty Mater
I might put it in the podcast. Just like, put it in here so we can all watch it together. I like. Cause nothing says true love like I'm giving you this piece of property.
- [57:37]
Jubilee Dawn
Exactly. Oh, yeah. And he proceeded to call out where I worked. So I was working at Tomato Pie Cafe, that restaurant. And he said, and then I also. I've been eating a tomato pie cafe during the conference this week, and I just heard that. Does she have anything to do with Tomato pie Cafe? And he said, well, that's where she works. And the whole audience is laughing because they think that this is a real, amazing, real prophecy. It's so confirmed. And lo and behold, shocking to no one. I am sure. All of that information was on my Facebook. Our relationship was on my Facebook. And he has since been exposed for being the Google Facebook prophet. Yeah. Yeah.
- [58:22]
Monty Mater
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he would find specific people, research, and read up on them, and then made sure he called out those people in these conferences.
- [58:31]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. That is what he would do. And people ended up realizing that he was faking it, because the times that he got it wrong, it's because it looked a certain way on Facebook. So he would say, I see that you have three children. And they're like, wait, I have four children. But only three of them were visible on their Facebook. Mm. And there was another time where he called out this woman, and he said, what does slaughterhouse lane mean to you? And she had no idea what he was talking about. So later on, people went back and looked, and there were two women in that city who had the exact same name, and one lived on a slaughterhouse lane, and the other one did it.
- [59:14]
Monty Mater
It's very Jim Jones of it. Very Jim Jones.
- [59:17]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh, absolutely. And it's just they. They all learn the same con. So, you know, I've spoken with Jedediah Hartley. I don't know if you know about him, but his dad, Bob Hartley, was the exact same thing. Just a total false prophet looking people up in advance. So that had a lot to do with why I ended up getting married to my ex, because I just thought it was so confirmed. And I think when you're raised in these purity culture circles, you want to feel like God sees you and that God has a plan for your life and that he's been holding this one person for you. So to have this prophet who's so highly esteemed call it out. What more could you want than for that sort of confirmation? And, yeah, I just jumped into it head first, thinking that this was fully God's will for my life.
- [60:07]
Monty Mater
Well, and that's one of the dangers of purity culture, because they sell it. They package it as this idea of serving God. But purity culture doesn't center God in a woman's life. It centers a man, this dream man that supposedly is for you, that owns your body, even though you haven't met him yet. And if he doesn't own your body, your dad does. And what it does is it really does center you one on men, but then also, as you participate in it, your value, because you're told all these stories like, well, no good man's gonna want you if you're not A virgin. You're gonna be a chewed up piece of gum or a sticky note that doesn't stick anymore or whatever. And so what happens is that if you are able to wait this whole time and you meet this person, it's validation that you did everything right. Right. It's Val, I've been. You live and you make choices because you want to be chosen by this man. And then if you're someone who didn't stay pure until marriage, someone choosing you is, oh, God's redeemed me. God's redeemed me. And now I have to do everything for this man because this man chose me. It's all about a man choosing you, not God choosing you.
- [61:20]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, it's like they're a visual representation of God in a way. And I think for my ex, he used so much manipulation as well, because I. He. I found out he was living a complete, complete double life when we were together. So I don't know if any of this is even true, but I had not waited for him. So obviously I have a lot of shame. I'm hoping God is going to redeem me. I had just read a book called the Sacred Search, which was so toxic.
- [61:46]
Monty Mater
Oh, that book is terrible, terrible book.
- [61:50]
Jubilee Dawn
And it really talks about how you should not look for looks. You shouldn't care about butterflies. You should solely just be thinking about, who do you want to raise your children? Who do you want to serve God with? So that is so the mindset I was in at the time was that my feelings don't matter and I just need to serve God with somebody who will do this life with me. And my ex ended up telling me, because this is horrible, but he was 30 and I was 20, and he told me that he was a virgin and that he had waited his entire life for me.
- [62:24]
Monty Mater
And he was a fucking liar, too. Liar.
- [62:29]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. I ended up finding out that he was addicted to strip clubs, like, the entire time that we were engaged. And you're gonna love this. He told me, because I had asked, you know, because people go to bachelor parties and stuff. I had asked him if he had ever been to a strip club, and he said, I've only ever been once, and it was for ministry.
- [62:52]
Monty Mater
That, too, is my favorite place to talk about the Lord and Savior, Jesus.
- [62:58]
Jubilee Dawn
What better place? And, like, I'm also. I'm not looking. Of course not.
- [63:04]
Monty Mater
You know, this isn't sexual for me. I didn't even get aroused.
- [63:08]
Jubilee Dawn
No. I see them as lost, you know, And I'm like, okay.
- [63:12]
Monty Mater
Oh, my God.
- [63:14]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. So he was such a liar. But apparently he was going multiple times a week. His ex girlfriend ended up telling me that he like had a favorite dancer. And yeah, it was a huge part of his life that I think he continued on throughout our entire relationship that I had no doubt about.
- [63:30]
Monty Mater
Okay, so Toxic Ted gets a prophecy. He gets this prophecy that you're now his property. How long is it between that time and when you guys got married?
- [63:45]
Jubilee Dawn
Between that, about seven months.
- [63:47]
Monty Mater
Okay, fast.
- [63:48]
Jubilee Dawn
So fast.
- [63:49]
Monty Mater
But that's so normal in these circles again, because it's like, don't you dare sin. You just need to get married so you can have sex.
- [63:55]
Jubilee Dawn
Well, and they use that Bible verse that says it's better to get married than to burn with passion or something like that.
- [64:02]
Monty Mater
Yeah, well, it's where Paul's talking about that he prefers people be celibate because then. Or people be single because they can serve God better. They can focus on God and not center their lives on a partner. They skip that part. But yes, he does say, if you can't take it, get married because it's better to marry than to burn with passion.
- [64:20]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah.
- [64:20]
Monty Mater
Oh God.
- [64:21]
Jubilee Dawn
In my mind I'm like, we need to get married so that we don't burn with passion. So, yeah, he ended up proposing a month after the prophetic word. So we had been together for two months when he proposed, which was just so fast.
- [64:35]
Monty Mater
And also you're 20, like you're still figuring out life and this man is a decade older than you.
- [64:41]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And during the engagement, I think it really started to hit me that where the heck has he been? Because I, I didn't know the questions to ask. And I remember when we were engaged, I was like, wait, where has he been for the last 10 years? It like, what have you been doing? You know, it, because he was working part time as a janitor at the church. That's what he was doing, you know, and I don't know, she's the janitor.
- [65:04]
Monty Mater
And the strip clubs. And like I just, it's. It's an image. It's an image. Let me tell you.
- [65:10]
Jubilee Dawn
It is. But it felt so confirmed. And I think like that's something that has been very interesting to unpack, is that everything feels so over spiritualized when you're in these circles. So the prophecy, when he proposed, fireworks went off and he said that he had not planned it. So I thought God blessed my engagement with fireworks and I prayed that God was going to send me someone. And then exactly one year later was our wedding day. And I Had not. I had not planned that. So I had found it during our engagement a couple months before the wedding, and I was like, wow, God works in such mysterious ways. And everything feels like confirmation.
- [65:46]
Monty Mater
Yep. It's either confirmation or it's a spiritual attack. Right. You get a flat tire on the way to an interview. Satan's attacking you. It's not that. No. You've never rotated your tires in 11 years. Like, absolutely everything is a spiritual. So you get married and then, like, tell us about your marriage, because this is, like, the pivotal point for you.
- [66:09]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh, it was horrible. And it. I think a lot of the shame of purity culture really showed up in our marriage. So one of the first things that he did, I think it was a week after the wedding. He told me that I was no longer allowed to go out to eat with my dad anymore. He said it was inappropriate because he's a man in my life now, and that I left my family behind per the Bible, and that it was no longer appropriate.
- [66:39]
Monty Mater
So.
- [66:40]
Jubilee Dawn
Coming. Yeah, Wait.
- [66:42]
Monty Mater
Because the Bible actually says a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. So that is actually backwards. But, I mean, he did that to manipulate you.
- [66:51]
Jubilee Dawn
But absolutely.
- [66:53]
Monty Mater
If we're going to go with the Bible, it's the man that has to leave his family behind anyways.
- [66:58]
Jubilee Dawn
Absolutely. Which he was. He was to his family, too. So I'm like, okay. And, yeah, I think that that really hurt at the time because there was already this power imbalance of he's 30 and I'm 20, and he was telling me how marriage is. So it's almost like he's teaching me, grooming me, in a way, to say, this is what is is expected of you. And you just don't understand because you're young. And also projecting this layer of inappropriateness on my relationship with my dad was super traumatizing because I already felt like he saw me as dirty because I'd been with people before. So for him to insinuate that there was something wrong or gross with going out to eat with my own dad was it was very painful at the time to try to figure out what to do, because I was also told growing up, you submit to your husband, you do what he says. And I think the question is, for most people, to what end? You know, to what end do you submit? And you just listen to thing that they say and you have to follow it. So from there, he just turned very abusive very quickly. So there was a lot of lunging at me, but not actually hitting me. So A lot of physical intimidation, like chasing me around our apartment complex. But I didn't know what, like, how to categorize it, because in film and tv, I thought abuse looks like bruises. Abuse looks like all of these different things. And as it escalate, I was just trying to figure out is this physical abuse? So there would be a time where he would pin me down and I'm like, well, my wrist hurt. And that felt really scary. But I don't really have views it bruises. Is that abuse? And yeah, it stayed like that for a couple years where it was kind of this flirting with being physical, but really just being scary and verbally abusive and trying to isolate me from my family. And, I mean, on the verge of divorce after six months, probably because. Because I. I was just so scared of him, you know, and it was hard to be with someone who I didn't really respect because that's one thing that he would say too, is, you know, I want you to respect me, which to him means submitting. Yep.
- [69:19]
Monty Mater
Worship me and do everything I say. That's respect.
- [69:21]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, exactly. And I, you know, in arguments, I would be. I would say, then act respectable, you know, because he wasn't. There would be times where he would dress up to go to work and he would leave the. He would leave our house all day and then come home and pretend that he had gone to work. And I would catch him in lies. And we were living off of his parents money. And whenever I said, well, I would like us to be financially independent, it makes me feel kind of like, icky that we're living off of their money. He would say, you know, that is not your place to worry about. It's my parents, and I'm the leader of our house, so like my drone business.
- [70:04]
Monty Mater
Jeez.
- [70:05]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah.
- [70:05]
Monty Mater
And also, like, to your point about not having the language of abuse is that in these strictly religious circles, they are very careful not to teach women that. They do not teach you what gaslighting is or narcissism or abuse. You're lucky if your mom will. Right. Because your dad's not gonna bring it up. The church isn't gonna bring it up. And they foster these abusive systems because the answer is always, well, you just need to meet his needs better or you just need to submit better. And then these girls, because they are girls, are getting married from 18 to 22, and they have no life experience. They don't know. They don't understand the language of abuse or what abuse looks like or what it feels like. And you've been Raised to never question the patriarch, because if you question whoever the patriarch is, you're questioning God. So it really fosters an environment to put young, young women in extremely abusive relationships.
- [71:01]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And you're taught to be timid, too, and to be very.
- [71:04]
Monty Mater
Don't be loud.
- [71:06]
Jubilee Dawn
Very forgiving. I. That was a big part of it too, of why I stayed married, was I was so traumatized by the verses that said, which, honestly, I haven't read the Bible in so, so long. So you're the queen of this. You'll know if this is accurate or not. But it was this idea of, you better forgive or you will not be forgiven.
- [71:26]
Monty Mater
Oh, yeah, it's Jesus. But it's Jesus's message to Peter where Peter's asking, like, how many times do I forgive my brother? And he says, well, he's like, do I forgive him seven times? And Jesus says, no, but seven times. Seven. And it's this extension of forgiveness. And that passage is very often used against women in abusive relationships, but it's applicable to everyone, and it's not about staying in an abusive situation. I can forgive you and also not let you punch me in the face again. I can do both of those things. But that's a very manipulated passage. And so you're in this. How long were you married, total?
- [72:02]
Jubilee Dawn
Let's see, about four years.
- [72:04]
Monty Mater
Okay, so this abuse is going on. He's clearly being verbally abusive. He's physically. Excuse me, Physically threatening you. Tell me about the burger.
- [72:15]
Jubilee Dawn
The burger? The burger that set me free.
- [72:18]
Monty Mater
The burger that ended the marriage.
- [72:20]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. Honestly, I say it's the best burger of my life, because it was in many ways. But we ended up going to Animal Kingdom, gonna go and run this Disney race. So it was me, Ted, my cousin, and his son. So the four of us were gonna go, and there was already some very weird tension going on between them during this trip. It felt like Ted was really needing to insert his dominance over the group. And it was really awkward because we would say, let's go do this, or what do you want to do, Ted? And it's like he didn't want to do anything that anybody else suggested. And I could tell he was just not happy and steamy. And my cousin was like, what is going on? Where Disney. This is supposed to be so happy. And he seems like he's really mad. And Ted had already had some weird things with my cousin. He had said that it was inappropriate for me to text my cousin after 9pm at night.
- [73:17]
Monty Mater
And this is your cousin?
- [73:19]
Jubilee Dawn
Cousin? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it was just ridiculous for him to feel that way, but those are things that I felt like I needed to submit and respect. So we going out to eat at the yak and yeti restaurant. And while we're there, I end up getting the Kobe beef burger, and my cousin ended up getting the tikka masala. And my. My cousin's family, they love sharing food. They're totally the type to be like, I'll order this, you order that, and we'll split.
- [73:47]
Monty Mater
Yeah.
- [73:47]
Jubilee Dawn
You know, because I want to try everything.
- [73:48]
Monty Mater
I'm like that. It's me.
- [73:51]
Jubilee Dawn
Yay. No, I'm not like that, because I'm like, I want my food, you know, but I will share. So his food comes out, and I can tell he got super vibing the food that he got. And he kept looking at my burger, and he was like, wow, GB it looks so good. And just dropping hints. So I told him, you know, do you want a bite of my burger? And he said, yes. So I ended up taking my fork and I just put a bite of the burger on a fork. I didn't even hand him the burger to take a bite of. And all of a sudden, Ted was so upset, he literally crossed his arms. He's like, sitting back. And he did not speak to us for the entire rest of the the dinner. And we had been talking about some family stuff at the time, so we weren't sure if he was upset about the family conversation that we were talking about. Like, I really didn't know why he was mad. It didn't even cross my mind that it was about the burger. I thought it must have been our conversation. So my cousin ends up going to the bathroom, and the waitress comes, gives us our check. And Ted is so nice to this waitress. He is like, thank you so much. The food was so good, and he was so rude to us, but so nice to this woman. So when she left, I got a little sassy and I said, so you can be nice to the waitress, but you can't be nice to your wife? Because I just felt so, like, what is wrong with you? Like, why are you doing this? I didn't say that, but that's what I was feeling. And he told me that he was upset that I gave a bite of my burger to my cousin because it him as the man at the table, and I should have offered my husband a bite of my burger first and that I, like, had deeply wounded him, basically.
- [75:42]
Monty Mater
Oh, my. Wow. Wow. That. Wow. That might be one of the most fragile things I have ever Heard like you should. I didn't want a bite of your burger, but you should have offered it to me. To me first. What?
- [75:59]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. So he just explodes. And, you know, we start walking out, and I'm. I'm freaking out. My cousin is still in the bathroom, and we walk out, and he just starts verbally abusing me in the middle of Animal Kingdom. He's calling me horrible names, which forgot to say before, but he used to call me a whore a lot during our marriage.
- [76:17]
Monty Mater
That would hurt you.
- [76:18]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. So anything that he could think to hurt me, he would tell me if we ever got divorced, you would just be a whore and you would say, sleep around and just say horrible things. So we're outside of this restaurant. He's threatening to strand me in Florida. He says, I'm going to take your ID and your credit cards because he had the backpack, and I'm going to throw them in the parking lot. You're going to have no way to get home, and I'm just going to ditch you here. And my cousin ended up coming up, and then he kind of ended up leaving, and I'm still being berated by him. And. And, yeah, that ended up leading up to the next day we. I just tried to put a band aid on it until we could get back home to Atlanta.
- [77:00]
Monty Mater
Yeah.
- [77:01]
Jubilee Dawn
I just couldn't handle this right now. And I had hid Ted's abuse from my family. So Ted had actually strangled me once before, and I had never told them that that had happened because I felt like I needed to protect my marriage. I felt like if they knew, then they wouldn't like him anymore. And he already hates them, so the last thing I want to do is cause more tension. So I knew that I would never tell them the truth unless I was ready to leave, unless I was done and decided that this couldn't work out. So I end up going home, and we have this conversation where I said, you know, it really concerned me that you were willing to yell at me in front of my nephew, who was only two at the time.
- [77:47]
Monty Mater
Yeah.
- [77:48]
Jubilee Dawn
And that you were screaming at me. And I'm very concerned about having kids with you. Would you yell at me like that in front of our kids? And he said, if you deserved it. And then that's when I said, then I will not be having kids with you. And then that's when he came and attacked me for the last time and strangled me for the last time. And then after that, I ended up, you know, he's falling to the floor, he's doing the whole bit that he has done throughout our entire marriage where he falls to the floor and he's crying and I'm such a bad person. Please forgive me.
- [78:20]
Monty Mater
I'm so sorry.
- [78:22]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah. And I think that's what was so tricky about it, too, is I felt like most of the time that I needed to forgive him because of religion, and I was just so scared of going to hell. It's the scariest thing in the world is eternal suffering. So I always felt like I just needed to forgive him and get over it. But this time I just really felt like I was done and. Or at least that I just needed space. So he ended up leaving, and then that's when I called the domestic violence hotline, and I ended up deciding to get divorced after all of that. So that burger changed my life.
- [78:56]
Monty Mater
Burger saved. You just took a Kobe beef burger. So then give me, like, a little kind of stuff synopsis of, like, what has life been like since that divorce? Like, how has it changed? Because your. Your platform is really in this very healing, deconstruction kind of space. What has that journey been like for you?
- [79:17]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh, it's been such a journey. I think coming out of that relationship, I think I was already starting to question Bethel and a lot of their teachings. Even towards the end of our marriage, we would argue a lot about it because there was a situation at Bethel where they were trying to raise a little girl from the dead. And they. Did you hear about that? It was horrible. This three year old had passed away. It was a worship leader at Bethel, and they held a worship service for like five or six, seven days. And it went super viral. BuzzFeed covered it. And it was like, this church out in California is trying to raise a little girl from the dead.
- [79:57]
Monty Mater
Oh.
- [79:58]
Jubilee Dawn
And I remember being so horrified by that. And my ex was. He told me, you are the reason that she's not going to be raised from the dead because of your lack of faith. What? Yeah. Oh, my God.
- [80:16]
Monty Mater
Wow. I have never heard about that. And that is crazy talk.
- [80:21]
Jubilee Dawn
Absolutely. And I mean, my ex, he was so crazy. He had a shirt that said Dead Raiser. It was his dream to go and do, like, funerals. He said, I really want to craft funerals and raise people from the dead. So that is the kind of person I was with.
- [80:37]
Monty Mater
And that is a new category of narcissism that I have not yet encountered.
- [80:42]
Jubilee Dawn
No, he is up there. Like, he's really up there. And I think I didn't feel like I could question or be honest with anything. I Was feeling. Feeling in that marriage. So when I finally did leave, I felt like, okay, not only this was the biggest part of it. I didn't feel like I was just divorcing him. I felt like I was divorcing my belief system, because to divorce him, I would have to acknowledge that that prophetic word was not true.
- [81:09]
Monty Mater
Y.
- [81:09]
Jubilee Dawn
And that I didn't believe that that was truly God's will. So once I decided to leave, I felt the permission to. To ask questions, to research Sean Bowles and see that there was actually so much talk about it on the Internet on how he was a con artist. And I ended up meeting my now husband, Brandon, and he has just totally my heart in so many ways, because he was not raised with this purity culture. He was raised Catholic, but it was super chill. Like, I remember I was laying on a picnic table when we first started dating, and I was telling him about Bethel and the crazy stuff, and this all sounded so outlandish to him, and he was so gentle with me and was like, oh, that's interesting. I've never heard about that. You know, I'm telling him about the manifestation spirit, and I realized that I felt like I had been in a cult. And that's when it really hit me for the first time. So from then on, I credit my now husband so much to a lot of the unpacking that I've done, because I don't know that I would have been able to ask the questions that I asked now without that, because when we got together, he made it very clear that whatever you end up believing, I accept you. So I could wake up like, I'm Buddhist, and he'd be like, I support you. And to have that freedom to just ask those questions that I was so afraid of was so big for me, because even the people in my life, which I love, the people in my life, but some of them, when I left Ted, were like, are you sure you want to get divorced? It's not like he was abusive. Oh.
- [82:53]
Monty Mater
Well, because they brand abuse as. Unless you end up with your face busted in the hospital, you weren't abused. It's the same way that they categorize radio rape as. Rape is only when the stranger hides in the bushes and jumps out and attack you, not your husband forcing himself on you.
- [83:11]
Jubilee Dawn
Exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, my. I had a family member who knew about. They knew that he had strangled me. They knew about the Disney World thing, and they still said, well, it's not like he's abusive. He just acted out.
- [83:23]
Monty Mater
Oh, what a Nice. What a nice out.
- [83:27]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, right? And I think that because I love those people, they were here for me when I left. I really needed their kindness during that time. But obviously I've unpacked that since and realized how toxic a lot of those thoughts were. And it took a lot of time to unravel. But, yeah, I've just been deconstructing since then. And I started sharing on TikTok last year. I posted the Disney World burger story just because a friend had asked me why I had gotten divorced. And I thought, okay, I'll make a quick then. It has just led to me really talking about what led up to this. A purity culture that made me feel like I was so broken that I needed to accept this relationship and that I was so lucky to have it, and I was just lucky that anybody loved me at all. And, yeah, it has just been so healing because a lot of what I do is share people's stories and comments because an isolating experience. Anybody who grew up in these circles, you feel like you're the problem. Like you're so sinful. Nobody's struggling with the same thoughts as you are struggling with their period as much as you. Because only the men are sexual. You know, women, we're not sexual.
- [84:41]
Monty Mater
We don't even. My dad told me growing up, like, well, you're not really gonna like sex. That's what my dad said. My dad said that to me. And I was like, well, Dad, I have news for you. I was like, but it's also like, women don't like bad sex.
- [84:59]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah.
- [84:59]
Monty Mater
Because it's like, if you're being really hungry and getting to watch someone else eat and you don't get to eat. Like, women actually really enjoy good sex with someone who does not treat them like dirt. It turns out my dad's other thing, because you mentioned how they talk about, you need to not think about. And it's only women. You need to not think about looks, and you need to not. Because women also. Well, you need to be pretty for your husband, and you need to be skinny and you need to stay in shape and you have to be hot all the time. Men are visual creatures, whatever. But the way my dad put it to me, and I grew up on a cattle ranch, so context kind of makes sense. He was like, you need to look for a man the way that you buy a horse.
- [85:37]
Jubilee Dawn
He was like, oh, my gosh.
- [85:39]
Monty Mater
He was like, you need to look at the bloodlines. What's its temperament? All this stuff. Like, is it tall? Does it have good Stature, like, he broke it down literally, like. Cause we bought horses. Like, we lived on a cattle ranch. And I remember sitting there looking at Mel like, dad, this is a person we're talking about, not a horse.
- [85:59]
Jubilee Dawn
Oh, my gosh.
- [85:59]
Monty Mater
I've never forgotten that.
- [86:01]
Jubilee Dawn
What a funny man.
- [86:02]
Monty Mater
I know.
- [86:03]
Jubilee Dawn
What a funny, funny man. And I feel like with my parents, I grew up in a household that is very. It's sad. I love my parents because they really rescued me when I came out of this relationship, and they were there for me and helped me get back on my feet. But I grew up in a place where we just don't talk about our feelings. Like, there are so many family secrets that I have just been uncovering in the last year or two that are horribly traumatizing. And nobody talks about them because they think it's protection to not talk about. About these things. And I remember when I went to that sex camp at the youth group, my dad was driving home, he said, I don't see why y' all needed an entire weekend for that. It's not hard to not have sex, you know? So, I mean, that's the most I ever got as far as the sex talk was. Like, it's not hard to wait. Okay. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm Dad. You'd be so disappointed.
- [86:56]
Monty Mater
More on my dad and his. His epic relationship advice. My dad's my birds and the bees conversation. I was helping my dad fix something in the car, and he was showing me how to do stuff because my dad raised me differently than he raised my sisters. He was very much like, I'm gonna teach you how to do everything you need so you don't need a man. You can choose one. Because his opinion of me changed as I got older when he realized I was smart. Anyways, you're smart, right? You're smart. You're smart, you know? And he. And. And, like, realistically, I was my dad's favorite kid. And so there was. Anyways. But we're sitting in the car, and he's showing me the stuff, and then he stops, goes off in, like, cold. Starts this conversation about me being with guys or things happening. And then he's like. And, you know, if a guy ever puts his arm around you and tries to get handsy, you have my permission to break his nose and just make sure that nobody ever touches you. And then he just gets out of the car and leaves.
- [87:51]
Jubilee Dawn
That's it. And I was like, break his nose.
- [87:53]
Monty Mater
My solution is violence.
- [87:55]
Jubilee Dawn
Like, okay, I guess violence is okay. I Guess we hurt people.
- [88:00]
Monty Mater
But if I make out with somebody, then that's a problem.
- [88:03]
Jubilee Dawn
Huge problem.
- [88:04]
Monty Mater
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So, yeah, that's my dad's amazing advice. So also, I know that you're doing a podcast. Tell me a little bit about the podcast and let people know where to find it.
- [88:16]
Jubilee Dawn
Yeah, so it is called. Called Heel Dish. And I'm having a lot of different interviews. So the first four episodes are my story. So it's this, but in a lot longer format of all of the insanity that happened at Bethel and some of Ted's crazier beliefs, like he thought he was never going to die. There's so much lore with Ted.
- [88:33]
Monty Mater
Oh, Toxic Ted has a lot of lore.
- [88:37]
Jubilee Dawn
So much lore. He thought he was going to live forever, which is great. He can raise himself from the dead. But yeah, the rest of the episodes, I'm having people on to just share their healing stories. So a lot of it is going to be deconstruction in this space of just trying to unpack what we were taught growing up and harmful beliefs. So one person that I did have on was Jedediah Hartley. Recently, he's coming on and we're talking about what it was like to be raised by a false prophet.
- [89:07]
Monty Mater
Yep.
- [89:08]
Jubilee Dawn
And him trying to sound the alarms. And Bethel not really caring. And there's other stories to people who have been groomed by their teachers. And I had someone who was left at the altar and chose to have. Yeah, she's. She's amazing. She chose to have her wedding reception anyway, and her friends and she walked out to what is it? Good as hell from Lizzo. I. She is a gem. I'm obsessed with her. So really, I've just been. I get submissions for people, but then I also, when I'm scrolling TikTok any crazy story that I'm like, oh, my gosh, we have to hear the details of that. I've been inviting them as well on the podcast.
- [89:51]
Monty Mater
Incredible. So, as we wrap up today, first, again, thank you so much for being part of the episode. Let everybody know again, your podcast name where they can find it and also all of your social media platforms so they can support your work.
- [90:05]
Jubilee Dawn
Yes. So I am Jubilee Dons on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube and my podcast, podcast name is Healedish. So that is on Spotify, Apple and YouTube as well. So it's healed Dash. Ish.
- [90:17]
Monty Mater
We're getting there. It just means it's a process. Jubilee, thank you so much for being here today on Flipping Tables. And thank you to my Patreon supporters who are making this show possible. If you'd like to support my work or you just want a little extra content, more long form, you can go to patreon.com Monty Mater and support me there. We're also going to start doing bonus historical episodes and live streams. So I will see you on Patreon and I'll see you next week on Flipping Tables.