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- [00:01]
Monty
We're going to go a bit of a different direction today and I'm very excited. We talk a lot about what scripture means and what Christian nationalism looks like in American history, but I mentioned specifically that we talk a lot about the separation of church and state and that freedom of religion does not exist without freedom from religion. So how do we create spaces where every religion or the non religious are on equal footing with everyone else? Because if you listen to a Christian nationalist often talk, they act like religious freedom only applies to them while they're meanwhile allowed to enforce their religion in, say, public schools. But there's a series of ideologies that come from this train of Christian doctrine, Christian in quotation marks, that you're only a Christian if you believe doctrine. This way, you're only a Christian if you're anti gay. You can't get sober without God. You can't be a good person without God. None of those ideas have any kind of data behind them whatsoever. And that's part of the reason that I'm bringing on my guest today to talk about some of these issues. Kyle Sullivan, if you've seen him online, he goes by the username Celtic Jumper, is a recovered alcoholic and addict with over nine years of sobriety. He began seriously making content at the beginning of COVID to help pass the time, grew a huge following on both TikTok and Instagram. He's an alternative model Halloween enthusiast, which was primarily what his content focused on. But as he watched the rise of the second Trump regime, he felt compelled to speak out about the hypocrisy and the atrocities he felt he was witnessing. On top of that, he's a full time carpenter. He's working on his first book that talks about getting sober without religion, God or aa. Kyle Sullivan is a satanic atheist living in California. He's happily engaged to his fiance Jenica, and has two children, Pumpkin and Raven, who are actually cats. And today Kyle and I are going to dive into the separation of how do we all live here in the same space with the same freedoms and the same footing. And we're going to talk about some of the cultural issues that he and I, as relatively new content creators in this commentary space, are seeing what we've come across and how we see the vision for the future, how maybe we can heal some of these things today on flipping tables. Hello and welcome back. I just want to say a couple quick announcements before we dive into the interview portion. The first is that I am in Nebraska right now at the hospital with my great niece. So I am recording these remotely. So if you do watch these on YouTube and you notice the video is a little different, maybe not quite as nice, it's because I'm doing it on my remote kit as well as the audio. Seeger will be mixing it, though, so we'll do the best we can. I'll be recording here for a couple weeks while we figure out what's going on with my great niece. And I wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who supported the first Bible study that we had on Monday of this last week on the 14th was really incredible. There was over 2,000 RSVPs. And we just did an introduction and we talked about some of the core teachings about the Bible that we have to face before we can really study it with honesty. It was incredible. If you'd like the replay of those, those are going to be available on my Patreon only simply because there's been a lot of AI manipulation of longer form content specifically around any kind of religious dialogue. And so that's my way to kind of protect my work a little bit. But there' plenty of tiers over there that you can sign up for and there's going to be all kinds of new free stuff. We have new merch coming, We've just finalized logos and it's got to be great. There's been a lot of work going on behind the scenes, even though I've been a little bit more reserved with everything going on with my family and wanted to say again, thank you for all the kind messages and the notes regarding Lucy. She's a fighter. We're going to get her through this, but for now, we're going to have a conversation about worldviews and what our perspectives can look like and can we exist in this place, in this plane with wildly different views. What does that look like? How does that apply? A lot of times, especially in the dialogue that we're having now with Christian nationalism. It's this belief that good can't exist or you can't be good, or you can't be better, or you can't have any of these things without God, but can you? And even if you hold the belief that no, you need God for all these things, well, what about people who, like my guest today, are atheists? How do we coexist in a place that allows for the true freedom and honoring an equal footing of everyone? So I'm going to welcome today our guest and we're going to dive in the show. We finally did it. We finally did it.
- [04:24]
Kyle Sullivan
We are here thanks for having me.
- [04:28]
Monty
I have to ask you first, before I get into any of the other deeper topics. You and your sister were orphans on Stuart Little?
- [04:35]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, so we did, like, a little bit of, like, TV and movies and stuff when I was a little kid, and my mom would always send us on auditions, and that was one of the ones we got on. So we met Gina Davis, which was pretty cool, you know, but, yeah, we were just in this huge, like, old church, and we were just little kids running around. You can see my sister better than you can see me in the movie.
- [05:01]
Monty
But that's just such a fun, like, random fact about, like, I didn't expect that. When I asked you for something, I was like, really? Like, what?
- [05:08]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, my life could have definitely gone in a different direction had I had, like, a big third callback kind of thing. And I was a little kid, and I didn't want to go, and so my mom didn't make me go.
- [05:19]
Monty
But what was the callback for?
- [05:22]
Kyle Sullivan
I don't remember. I keep thinking it might have been, like, something like the Sixth Sense, but I, you know, don't hold me to that. But I remember my mom saying it was a big role. She was really upset that I didn't want to go, but I wanted to hang out with my girlfriend, and I was, like, 9 years old, so she should have just dragged me.
- [05:38]
Monty
It's like, mom, why didn't you make me go? Hindsight's 2020 when you're a little kid. And you also. You won the Wipeout TV show.
- [05:49]
Kyle Sullivan
I did, yeah.
- [05:49]
Monty
When was that?
- [05:51]
Kyle Sullivan
2008. So I'm originally from Los Angeles, Tahunga, you know, in San Fernando Valley. And my friend's mom told me to go audition for this show, and I got on. I had a big mohawk at the time, so I'm sure they wanted that, like, character on the show. And oddly enough, I was homeless and, like, partying at the time, like, fresh out of high school, so, like, hanging out with punk rockers and just more so just 247 partying, you know? But I got on the show. It was two days of shooting, and I ended up placing first or third place out of the qualifier. And then first, first, first. And they cut me a check for $51,000, which they didn't take the taxes out of. So that's how I Learned about the IRS and how to pay taxes. It's like, 14 grand. I owed them later.
- [06:40]
Monty
Yeah, you're just like, damn. I know. It's so much money for, like, in perspective compared to like, how much our wealthy counterparts make, like, how much of our check gets taken versus the percentage of their check. Very different. And I. I learned that the hard way. When I started, like, my own business, I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, this is. This is what we're gonna do here. So. But I'm, again, I'm really glad to have you here on the show. I'm very excited for this conversation. What I want to kind of start with is a lot of your story is your sobriety. So what was. What was your journey into addiction? What did that look like? And what was. What was your moment that helped you get out of it? Just kind of tell us that story.
- [07:21]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, absolutely. So Wipeout was definitely part of that catalyst, right? So I won $51,000, and that was me just being able to party, you know, basically for free. And so I was hanging out with the punk rocker crew down there. And that. That time in my life, I just kind of felt immortal, you know, so as, you know, more drugs came around me. Even as a kid, I was like, I never wanted to, you know, mess with heroin, and. But I ended up trying it, and that just kind of compounded. So I was doing a lot of drugs, a lot of drinking, and I had a cousin that came down, saw me, and he pulled me out of that, and I moved up north to Northern California, and I felt like, well, if I get away from all the drugs, I can keep drinking, right? And that's fine. And that as, you know. And I was still pretty young, you know, and so I was like, when did you start. Start drinking?
- [08:15]
Monty
Yeah, just in general. When did this start becoming a problem?
- [08:19]
Kyle Sullivan
Well, I started kind of like drinking around, like, 14. I mean, that was always like, you know, going to high school parties and stuff. But when it became like more of, like an everyday thing was when I was, like, end of 17, 18, and when I moved up here, you know, all my peers were still pretty young. But as life progressed and everyone continued forward, I wasn't really moving forward as well. I just wanted to keep partying. And everyone was like, okay, I'm going to. You know, we're not going to be hanging out as much, just, you know, kicking back and going to parties. And I did not want to stop drinking, not realizing at the. At the time that I kind of couldn't stop because I'd never really tried to stop. But the juxtaposition of the level that I drink comparative to everyone else around me, I knew I was like, I don't. I don't want to get the judgment from that. So I slowly started kind of hiding it, you know?
- [09:14]
Monty
Yep.
- [09:14]
Kyle Sullivan
And that there, There. There's so many red flags that you just fly right by. And that was a huge one, you know, which is, I'm drinking by myself. I'm kind of hiding it, you know, and when. When it got to the point where I was like, I really know that this is an issue. I got jobs in the service industry as a busser, and then, you know, a bartender and a server. And I had used the bathroom one day, and it was just pure blood. And instead of. Instead of thinking, wow, I've really got to, like, rein this in, I just was able to justify it away in my head that it was like, probably jalapenos I had or something, which is such an irrational thought.
- [09:58]
Monty
Like, that's. That doesn't even make sense that.
- [10:01]
Kyle Sullivan
No, but you have to, like, you have to protect the drinking at all costs. And so much of it is you trying to run from something. You know, you're. You're. It's an escapism. And so the fact that now I have this fact that I just painted the bowl with blood, I'm like, I gotta run from that. And you just tell yourself some stupid comforting lie. But I had gotten a DUI right, when I moved up here, and I had met my, you know, now fiance, Jenica. We've been together for, like, 16 years, but I had gotten a DUI right then. And then when I was 25, I ended up getting a DUI. And so this. At this point, when I'm like, 25, Jenica's has been saying, you know, like, I really wish you would acknowledge you have a drinking problem, you know, And I still. I could not face that. I would say, like, I have tendencies. Like, maybe sometimes I drink a little, but I never could say I was an alcoholic. And. And I. The idea of letting go of alcohol was. Was horrifying. So I just never. I just never dealt with it. And then it got to the point where we had set up specific days that I was allowed to drink throughout the year. So my. My birthday, St. Patrick's Day, Christmas. Still not. Not being able to acknowledge, like, normal people don't do this.
- [11:22]
Monty
Yeah. You don't have to set days for yourself.
- [11:24]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, exactly. And it was. It was like the death throes of me just not wanting to finally admit that I'm an alcoholic and just let it go. But so the. It was April 1, 2016, so April Fool's Day, which I thought was kind of like Darkly poetic. But I had done what I had been doing. I had done what I'd been doing for a while, which was this whole time we had set up these days, I was secretly drinking the entire time, right? Like there was no. I was living by these days. That was just what we had said. And I was, you know, completely disregarding that the whole time. But. But a normal day would consist of me waking up, drinking the entire time and then going to work. And so as a bartender, I think because it involves alcohol, there was like more leeway there. But I went into work, worked my whole shift. I was drinking my entire shift. I got my car and on my way home, I was at the stoplight right before my, my house, you know, and there's no one else on the road. It's like three in the morning and a cop car pulls up behind me. And I've never been in this position and not been pulled over. And so at that point I'm like, I'm going to prison now because three DUIs in a 10 year period, you know, in California anyway, is a minimum one year jail sentence. And so all of this is running in my head and I'm like, so, you know, I'm. Jennika's gonna be gone whether she leaves me or if I just say he really shouldn't be with me anymore because clearly I don't know what I'm doing. And I just felt like everything was like slipping out of my fingers. And I felt so, so stupid and so foolish because I had gotten DUIs in the past and there's that nightmare feeling of like, oh my God, and if I get out of this, I'm never going to do this again. But that slowly dissipates, you know, until it's like, well, I've only had one drink. And then it gets back to the point where I'm. And I'm driving home again. And so the light went green, I went forward and the cop turned right and I made it home and I sat in my car and I just, I kept thinking like, it's gonna happen again. I'm going to do it again, you know. And so I went inside, I did my whole masking routine, you know, trying to hide the smell of the alcohol. And in the morning, you know, I kissed Jennica. You know, she was passed out, but in the morning she had left for work. And I was like, that moment was my rock bottom. When I woke up, like the alcohol had largely worn off and the, like any of the dopamine or serotonin or whatever was floating around in my head from the alcohol was gone. And I. I was just like, I cannot. I cannot do this anymore, and I don't want to be here anymore. Like, even drunk, my life sucks. You know, like, except for, you know, Jennica and maybe a handful of friends, I was like, as a whole, my life sucks. And I still. Even in that moment, I wasn't quite ready to be like, and why does it suck?
- [14:23]
Monty
You know, it's like you're so close to the point. You're just, like, right there.
- [14:28]
Kyle Sullivan
And so I. I decided I was gonna. I don't know how dark we're allowed to get, but just be honest.
- [14:35]
Monty
It's about being transparent.
- [14:37]
Kyle Sullivan
I was going to drive my car off of the. The cliff of bodega, and I was just gonna end it, you know? And so I sat down and I started writing out my suicide note. And then when I was looking down at some of my tattoos while I'm doing this, that are supposed to stand for, like, strength and courage, for whatever reason, whether it's, like, superficial or egotistical, like, I don't know. But I. It was the fact that even my tattoos are lies, and that burrowed into my head that I was like, everything I have done, every. Like, everything that I am about is a farce, is a lie, you know? And the fact that I. Even my tattoos realize it just. It flips some switch in my head. And so I. Instead, because I was like, well, I guess I could always myself later, you know, and so if this can wait. Yeah. And so I ended up texting Jenica, like, this novel on my iPhone, you know, like, through text, I mean, And I was like, I'm just gonna say it all. And I was like, I'm an alcoholic. I've been spending all the rent and the bill money. Like, I have been lying this whole time, you know? And I. I had this whole long thing, and then I. Oh, like, before I sent it, there's this Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde thing going on in my head. And the Mr. Hyde part is like, wait, you don't have to send this yet. Okay? We can pick up extra shifts. We can make that money. We can make this right. Do not pull the trigger on this. Because there is. And then I hit send. And so I'm hit immediately with, like, panic and fear. And then almost instantly after that was just relief because it was the first time in so long that I'm like, I don't have to try to remember what the lie is anymore. I can I'm just, like, being honest and transparent felt so foreign, you know, it. It felt like I was taking off a ball and chain that I didn't know was on there, you know, or at least wasn't consciously recognizing. And then. So I went one step further, and I called, you know, I went to my employers, I put it on all my social media. I. I told everyone. I was like, I'm an alcoholic. Do not drink with me. You know, I'm not. I will never be drinking with anyone ever again. And if you want to drink, if you make that decision, just know, like, you are hurting me, you know?
- [17:03]
Monty
Yeah.
- [17:04]
Kyle Sullivan
And. And so I. That was April 2, 2016, and from that day forward, I never drank again. And it was a huge, like, aha. Moment because I had, you know, loosely tried to, like, curtail my drinking in the past. And I figured, like, well, you know, my love for. For Jennica or my love for my parents or, like, I know, for health reasons, but none of that moves the needle at all. And until you are personally motivated through desire to want it to stop. And once that happened, it was like a switch flipped, you know, and I just kind of started rebuilding my new life, my new identity, and I didn't really know who the hell I was without alcohol, you know? And so I started thinking back from, like, to high school to whenever was the last time that I wasn't so, like, entrenched in alcohol, and I was like, what was it that I like to do? And so. So much of that is relearning who the hell you even are.
- [18:09]
Monty
Yeah.
- [18:09]
Kyle Sullivan
You know, the majority of my day consisted of getting alcohol and hiding alcohol. And so when you remove that, you're.
- [18:15]
Monty
Like, I have all this free time.
- [18:18]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. You're like, I don't know what to do anymore.
- [18:22]
Monty
So with. That's incredible that you were just. You. You reached that moment, you were able to admit it, and then you're like, I'm done. I'm not. That's incredible. That's tough to do. Like, as someone who's newly sober, that's tough to do.
- [18:36]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, I. I think that the something that my friend Nick said one time I really liked is, like, you have to pick your hard. Right. Like, everything in life is really hard. So, like, yes, it is hard to admit that you're an alcoholic and you've been lying and all this, but it's also hard to continue doing what you're doing, you know?
- [18:55]
Monty
And what do you want to lose? Is it the alcohol or, like, all.
- [18:58]
Kyle Sullivan
Your relationships and potentially yourself you know, it's. Yeah, it's. I feel like it is a lot scarier before you've made the leap, you know. And like, all of this, this is my personal experience. So, like, you know, your results may vary kind of a thing. But for. For me, like, so much of what I thought sobriety would be on the other side that. That seemed really unappealing in a lot of ways. And I had done a lot of AAA in the past. I mean, court ordered, but, like, I did go into it with an open mind. I'd done like, DUI classes, but there was this. This dogmatic approach that they had. And I'm, you know, an atheist, and so there's a lot of religion in these things. And so the idea that that was my alternative was never really appealing, you know, where I was like, I can either be in this bar all day long or I can be in this church basement all day long worshiping a God I don't believe in, you know, so it. Well, when I realized that there really are. There are no rules, like, there are no rules to how you get sober or your motivations. Like, you can go the AA route and have a sponsor and, like, journal about it. You can do whatever you want, or you cannot do any of that, you know. And so when I realized I didn't have to follow anything is when I kind of felt like I had freedom to just kind of make it up as I went along, you know. And I developed my own little system that I'm writing a book about it right now. I got a literary agent and everything. And so, yeah, that's amazing about how I got sober without, like, religion and AA and all that stuff. Yeah, I'm pretty stoked and tying in.
- [20:43]
Monty
This because I'm interested to ask this before we dive into some of these topics. You mentioned that you. You left religion at 9 because of a conversation you had with a Sunday school teacher.
- [20:55]
Kyle Sullivan
Yes.
- [20:55]
Monty
What was that conversation?
- [20:58]
Kyle Sullivan
So we. We broke off from, you know, the regular church, and we're in there and we were talking about, like, salvation. And if. If you're a good person your whole life, but you don't accept Jesus Christ into your heart, then you unfortunately don't get to go to heaven, right? And I remember my little brain, like, spinning its wheels and going, wait. And I asked, I was like, so, wait, wait. So, like, even if you're like a totally good person, you never sin. If you don't do that, you don't go to heaven. And she's like, unfortunately, yes, but, like, God Gives us opportunities. And I was like, that doesn't make sense. I was like, that's wrong. That's wrong. And I was like, I don't feel like God would do that. And we got into this little tiff and then she just was like, I think for the rest of the remainder of the day, you should go back with your parents. And I remember walking out of that room being like, I don't. I don't know if I believe in any of this. And my parents didn't make me. They tried to make me go back for a little while, but I just kept being like, I don't want to go. I feel like it's all make believe, you know? Yeah, it's funny and that, you know, that and being kind of raised on George Carlin, you know, I went through his whole disco, like, his entire pantheon of videos when I was like 8, 9 years old, going to Blockbuster, I remember.
- [22:19]
Monty
Oh, good old Blockbuster.
- [22:21]
Kyle Sullivan
Those were the days, the before times. But, but yeah, so I, I was always looking at it through a very skeptic lens that I don't feel was, like, indicative of my age at the, at the time, you know, And I'm really grateful for it that I discovered Carlin and I had that experience. Like, I'm actually super grateful for her because I really like the way my brain works, you know, and now I'm, I'm. I need evidence to believe in something, you know, And I think that is kind of a part of the problem, like, just at large is like, we get so tied up into believing something because we, like, emotionally identify with someone or something, you know, and we're like, well, I like these things. So basically what they're saying, I'm just going to believe that to be true, you know, and it's like, you should have evidence.
- [23:13]
Monty
You should have some data, maybe a little bit of data. And I love this because, like, I mean, I grew up in a really strict religious home. My whole life was in the weeds until my mid-20s. But nine was also a pivotal point for me. It was the first time I got thrown out of Sunday school because they started introducing the topic of, like, women's modesty. And like, if you, you know, show your shoulder, you're going to cause a man to sin. And I was 9, and I was like, excuse me? I was like. And I asked her, I was like, well, aren't the men supposed to be leaders? And she was like, yeah, what do you mean? I said, well, then how can we rely on them to be leaders if they Won't lead themselves.
- [23:48]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah.
- [23:49]
Monty
And she asked me to leave and I was never allowed in her classroom again. But like, for me, the indoctrination was so strong because it started when I was three and never let up, that you kind of, you justify it, you push it to the side, even though your gut instinct is like, this is wrong. I don't like how you're treating people. But, you know, everyone says that, you know, if I question it, then it's not true. And the truth always holds up to scrutiny. I've learned that anytime, any ideology or dogma won't let. Let you ask questions or they frown on questions immediately.
- [24:17]
Kyle Sullivan
No, yeah, absolutely.
- [24:19]
Monty
If, if you're, if you're. Whatever it is you believe in is that strong, it will hold up to questions.
- [24:25]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. Like truth. I, I always like to say that the truth shines brighter the more intense the scrutiny is because it's true. Like it's immovable. Like it is the fact, you know, and if, if you believe something is true, then you, at least for me, I'd want it verified. I want to be able to know. I'm like, yep. See, like every, anything you can throw at the truth cannot get through because it happened. It is verified. Like it, you know, well.
- [24:55]
Monty
And I don't want to have to shut off my rational mind in order to believe something.
- [25:00]
Kyle Sullivan
Exactly.
- [25:01]
Monty
That doesn't necessarily mean I will understand everything that I come encounter with. Like, I can't tell you anything about quantum physics. Don't know, have no idea. Doesn't mean it's not real. However, I don't have to turn my brain off to learn about it. I don't have to just put on blinders.
- [25:16]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah.
- [25:16]
Monty
I'm just going along with this because someone told me to. And what I wanted to ask you, because in your intro you identify. Because I know that listeners are going to be very interested in this. You identify as a satanic atheist. And growing up, as I grew up, people are like, oh my God, you know, satanic panic, child sacrifice, when in reality most Satanists don't believe that Satan is a real entity. So what does that mean for you as an atheist who identifies that way? What does that look like?
- [25:47]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, I mean, largely it looks pretty much like atheism with, you know, sharper edges it. The, the whole idea behind satanic atheism is embodying the, the spirit of Satan metaphorically and allegorically. So like the spirit of rebellion, you know.
- [26:08]
Monty
Yeah.
- [26:08]
Kyle Sullivan
And it kind of is like a big middle finger to establish religion, which that felt Very cathartic for me, you know, especially seeing it kind of infiltrate into legisl rules and all this stuff. I. It infuriates me, you know, to not be them, to be able to see. Like, hey, if it was other religions doing that, you wouldn't like that.
- [26:29]
Monty
Yeah, you would be very upset.
- [26:31]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. And so the, the atheist part is, you know, pretty important because people will say like, oh, so do you worship the devil or do you believe, you know, do you pray to Satan? And I'm like, I don't believe in any supernatural beings, you know, real.
- [26:48]
Monty
He's not real.
- [26:49]
Kyle Sullivan
He can't hurt you. But. But yeah, so it's the. This idea that like, Satan, you know, was this fallen angel for asking the truth and for. For questioning authority, you know, and the. Something I've. I've been doing all my lives is I'll take the. The tenets of Satanism and we read them and I, I won't say right off the bat that it's Satanism because it's. It's all just how to be a good person. You know, like, you're. Your body isn't. Is inviolable to your own will alone. And like, to forego someone else's, you know, is. Is really bad. And like, your. Your view of reality should comport with science to the best of your ability. Like, all these things, there's nothing in there that's like. And then you sacrifice the baby on the winds. It's just. It's not in there, you know.
- [27:39]
Monty
Well, and it's. The Satanic Temple is. Is very much essentially a civil rights group.
- [27:45]
Kyle Sullivan
Absolutely.
- [27:46]
Monty
You know, it is really what they function as. I think a lot of people get the Satanic Temple confused with Anton lavey's church.
- [27:52]
Kyle Sullivan
Yes.
- [27:52]
Monty
Is the confusion. Very different organizations. Anton had his own thing going on.
- [27:59]
Kyle Sullivan
He believed in like actual, like magic through word, which is just, you know, saying you can convince people to do stuff by talking. But. And like, I'm not an expert on Anton Lavey's version of Satanism, but I don't really care to as well, because I care more about the, you know, the Satanic Temples version, which is using this moniker of religion to show the hypocrisy within our. Our local and national legislation. When they're trying to say, we're going to have the Ten Commandments in front of this courthouse or in the school, and they're like, cool, we're gonna have a statue of Baphomet here. And they're like, they're like, well, you can't do that. We're going to get rid of the Ten Commandments, so you can't do that. And they're like, awesome. That's what we wanted.
- [28:45]
Monty
Exactly. That was the point.
- [28:47]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. And they do. They do so much cool stuff, man. They have, like, the men straighten with Satan, which, you know, get. Helps like, women get, like, feminine hygiene products. And they've made. This is the one that really pissed off a lot of the religious people, is that they've made abortion technically a religious act. Right. To circumvent, you know, laws and that are banning. Yeah, that are banning it. Right. And so they're like, oh, see, they are sacrificing babies. I was like, I know the optics ain't great, but, like, if you know what's going on, you. You.
- [29:22]
Monty
Well, and also, one of their core tenets is about everyone's supreme bodily autonomy, that everyone's, like, sovereign in their own body, you know, and that's. That's one of their core tenets and always has been. And I love what they do that. They just. They do. They're like, oh, if you're gonna do it, that means we can do it too, using these religious laws. And I love that they use baphomet, because baphomet's like, again, it's another thing that's not real. Was invented by King Philip when he wanted to murder the Knights Templar. But people see it and they're like, oh, no. You know, it's just. It's more 80s satanic panic, which makes me kind of gleeful a little bit. Makes me kind of happy.
- [29:59]
Kyle Sullivan
Justice Freddie Munson.
- [30:02]
Monty
But I did any. And I know that they. They also show up at a lot of meetings and they advocate for students of other religions. Like. Like, they've done a lot of really great work. So if you're listening to this, because I have a large group of atheists who follow my channel, a large group of mixed LGBTQ community, and then a large group of religious people. Religious people. This. This Satanic temple. They're the good guys. They're the good guys. They try to do good work. They try to get equality and justice for everyone, but they also love them. Jesus would love them. Jesus be like, I. It was kind of an move. I see what you did.
- [30:36]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah.
- [30:36]
Monty
But I like it. But I like it.
- [30:38]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah.
- [30:39]
Monty
And it's. It's really about. I do like that they throw into kind of the spotlight, the hypocrisy, and they use these religious lies and these religious loopholes to be like, okay, well, if you're going to do that, then we're going to do that. And you start to see the hypocrisy between the Christian nationalists who think that that freedom of religion or the freedom to impose their religion only applies to them.
- [31:02]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah.
- [31:03]
Monty
And so that I think is extremely helpful in in just like changing the public discourse. You may not know this about me, but I was born and raised in rural Wyoming. I grew up on a cattle ranch north of Gillette, Wyoming, and I was born in Campbell County Hospital. As you might imagine, Wyoming is very rural and many of my family members still live there. With the passing of the new big ugly horrible budget bill, the hospitals in rural areas like where I was born are at risk of shutting down. After the passage of the bill, I went to Ground News, specifically the Blind Spot feature, and followed how this affects hospitals back home. Rural hospitals in Oklahoma and Nebraska are already at risk of closing. And that's before I get to how many people will be impacted by Medicaid loss. If you've followed me for a while, you know that my great niece Lucy is having several heart surgeries this year to save her life. She's only six months old and she's on Medicaid. The consequences of this bill are personal as they are far reaching. And I noticed on Ground news that only 4% of right leaning news sources are sharing this info. Even though these cuts disproportionately affect their readers and constituents, now more than ever, you need to know what's happening and you need to know what you're not being told. I highly recommend using Ground News. It's efficient and you can find very accurate sources and information. And the Blind Spot feature is one of the greatest assets I have found. Doing this research for 40% off their vantage plan, which comes to about $5 a month. You can subscribe@groundnews.com tables and your support also keeps my show running. This episode is also brought to you by Intravenous Solutions, Nashville's premier IV therapy and wellness center. IV Therapy can help you recover quicker from heavy workout or illness, treat the symptoms of dehydration, and improve sleep and give you healthy, glowing skin. Being on stage several times a week before and now simply talking so much for a living, I can say that IV treatments keep me on my feet, keep my voice healthy, and are a lifesaver. Recently I had a severe health scare and also found out that I have Long Covid. I've been using their ozone treatments to help get rid of the symptoms of Long Covid and Help restore me to full health. I've only done three treatments with the ozone, but I can tell you the brain fog is clearing. My energy is improving. It is an incredible treatment that I hadn't heard of until Dr. Allen told me about it. They also offer vitamin shots, oxygen therapy, weight management and mobile services. There are four locations in Nashville, Hendersonville, Franklin and their brand new location on second Avenue in the Bankers Alley Hotel by Hilton. It is so easy to get high quality healthcare all week. Prevention is power. Take care of your health before it becomes an emergency is what I learned this past June. So come visit Nashville. You can come party in Nashville or you can come visit me and you can give the code Monty10 at checkout at Intravenous Solutions for a 10% discount on services. And so sitting where you, you know, you're someone who walked away from religion young. You've always been analytical. You find yourself in this kind of, we'll call it really rebellion space of like pushing back on these kind of traditional societal imprints, religion. How do you feel like that we've gotten to this space where especially like when we look at like MAGA and this extreme doctrine rhetoric where data does not matter anymore, Science is discredited, education is discredited. It's all about just following the plan, following whatever it is your favorite talking head told you. How do, what do you think are the influences that got us here? And how do we start to get out, like with everyone, like, how do we get everyone out of this system?
- [34:36]
Kyle Sullivan
So I think part of how we, we ended up falling into this was this switching of identities that a lot of people had. Right. And I think it's multifaceted. I think there's a generation of people that feel this like, kind of like leave it to beaver, white picket fence version of America in their head, whether it ever really existed like that or not. Like they see all of this social progress as that being stripped away. And they might think that like, oh my God, if we don't, if we don't stop it now, then we're never going to get it back. Right.
- [35:11]
Monty
Even though it was never real to begin with.
- [35:13]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. And, and even if, if aspects of it were, it was only real for a certain group of people. And it's, that's not how America should work, you know, and, and so here comes along this guy Trump that basically says, I am your weapon. Use me to bludgeon anything you don't like. You know, and when, when you get absorbed into this thing of, of maga, like any critique of Trump is a critique on them. And so he kind of. He, like, built this, like, little force field around him. And if, if you expose any one part of this, then they, that it's that like, domino effect or like a house of cards. Like, they can't have one part of it be proven wrong. Because if they, if they acknowledge that, then if they're being intellectually honest, then they have to go, well, what else am I misled about? Right? And so they, they, like, by design. They're. They do not want. They don't have any motivation to look inside and analyze their belief structure with this. Right. So that's why I think part of the reason why it is so hard to be like, look, I am showing you that they painted this brick blue and they're like, nope, it's a red brick. I'll never say that it's not. You know, but then if Trump the very next day said, that's a blue brick, they'd be like, it was always a blue brick, you know? Yeah. And I think, you know, when we say cult for a lot of. A lot of the time, it may have seemed like hyperbolic or tongue in cheek, but I think we are fully at this point now where those. That definition fits and appropriately applies.
- [36:54]
Monty
Yeah.
- [36:54]
Kyle Sullivan
And it's unfortunate because you, you know, these people, some. Some of these people in your actual life, and they might seem completely rational, you know, needing evidence in other aspects of their life, but when it comes to this, it's just like, nope. And any discussion towards it that is oppositional is like, nope. Fake news. You're a Marxist, you know, get away from me.
- [37:16]
Monty
Yep.
- [37:18]
Kyle Sullivan
And I think the social media played a role in that, in shortening our attention span and the amount of evidence we need to believe something. And so we see now people are getting their worldview from comments, you know, like, who are these people? I don't know. You know, and the, the Internet, it sounds like boomer brain, but like the. I'm like, back in my day, the.
- [37:44]
Monty
Internet was two pieces back before we got into the bad place timeline.
- [37:48]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. But so the, the Internet, the rise of YouTube and social media, it allowed these, not. Not just echo chambers, but for people to have platforms that would have been relegated to kind of the. The outskirts of society, you know, like, yeah, Jim thinks the earth is flat and everyone's a lizard person. You know, you'd be like, whatever, Jim, see you Thanksgiving. You know, but. But now these people are being paid millions of dollars, you know, because they develop a community. It. It flattens The. The plane. So you have all these other people that are conspiratorial that find each other. They flock to one another. And the social media, the algorithms, they enjoy. They like the engagement, and so they pour money into it, and then these things grow. And the larger something is, the more polished it. It gets. You know, they hire editors and stuff, and so it gives it this air of legitimacy. And that's why I think it's. It's really hard to combat, because, you know, it. It feels like they are in on something. Right. Like, I know it's the deep state, you know, we're gonna expose the. I know. Like, yeah, exactly. And it's. They. It's really hard to show them that instead of believing in established science and organizations, you now do the exact same thing, but in the opposite direction, where you believe just random dudes on YouTube, because it feels like you're in this club, you know, And I think at this position where we are as a country has kind of. I've been calling it, like, the death of nuance, because it is so, like, the problem is not a singular entity. As much as we might like to point at Trump, he is like, but one symptom of everything going on, you know, and the problem really is more like if you took a big piece of glass and tapped it and you have this spider web of, you know, now everything is, like, fractured all over these. All these little interconnected lines like this, where. Where you go back to freaking Reaganomics, you go to the slow erosion of the education system, you go to redlining, which, you know, increases crime. And so that starts having racial divides. Like, all of these things are all connected, and yet we have this shortened attention span, in part due to social media and searching for dopamine, that we're like, just give us a boogeyman. Who do we gotta hate? Like, that's. Yeah, exactly. And so it's really hard to say. Well, it's. It's pretty complicated, actually. And, like, if you really look. I mean, it's going to take introspection and societal introspect, you know?
- [40:25]
Monty
Yep.
- [40:26]
Kyle Sullivan
And so Trump gives them a really easy message.
- [40:29]
Monty
Yeah. You know, and the boogeyman is always clear. It's. It's the trans athlete, it's the immigrant. It's. It immediately gives you an enemy to hate. Hate. Instead of, like, you know, again, the nuance around immigration of, wow, these. These people are all working, they're paying taxes. Like, all of these things don't enter the conversation. It's. We need a scapegoat we're going to find a scapegoat. We're going to attack the scapegoat, which is so much easier than sitting down and trying to learn the truth. And even like America's, you know, historic racism, it's really hard to sit and dive into those issues and sit with them versus, again, having a boogeyman. And it's, I think, for Christians who grew up as evangelicals, it's so much easier because you're raised from the beginning of your life that, you know, you're. You're inherently sinful, you're inherently, like, broken. Don't trust your mind, don't trust your intuition. Trust what your pastor says, because the pastor has, like, this ticket to God. And so they grow up in this system of don't trust yourself, don't trust your questions, especially women. That's really pushed on women a lot more than men. And then they end up. They're so used to just taking whatever their male leader says. And you're taught, you know, from a young age, well, we don't trust scientists because they're trying to prove the theory of evolution, and we don't believe that. So you discredit all science. You discredit education because women are outpacing men in education. And that doesn't follow the gender roles. But when you get to your 20s, 30s, 40s, and you've been indoctrinated in that your whole life, and you've never gotten out of the bubble, it is so easy to just hate the next thing that the community, the think tank, tells you to hate.
- [42:08]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, absolutely, 100% on everything you're saying. And I also think that after, when you've been indoctrinated your entire life in that even if you do have that come to Jesus moment, it's your everyone, you know, your whole life has been built on this. So the idea of you saying, like, I guess I gotta walk away from all of this because now I don't believe it anymore. There. I. I forget what the website is called. It's like the Secret shepherd or something. But it's these pastors and priests that have lost their faith but continue to preach because they're afraid to get a divorce and, you know, lose all their friends and family and. And, you know, their kids are religious, and so they're left with the option of, like, do I be intellectually and, like, spiritually honest with myself, or do I just fake it and continue having this life that I have with good people? You know, and it's when you've had it become so much a part of your identity for so long, it feels like ripping an organ out, you know? And like, how am I gonna continue on with that? And then the. The idea of being indoctrinated that long with, you know, accepting people in positions of authority, like, you just like, okay, they said that I think that are especially our Abrahamic faith aspect of our. Our country. It was just ready to plug and play with the MAGA movement. Right. Like, it seemed like a plug in for it. And the way that they were able to just blend Republican party and Christianity and patriotism, like, I mean, from. From an outside perspective, looking at that, like, it is impressive in the way of how effective it was. And it's unfortunate that they were so effective at doing something that is quite literally destroying our country.
- [44:05]
Monty
Yeah.
- [44:05]
Kyle Sullivan
And. And it's like, I don't know, I. I keep thinking like, there's gonna be. There's gonna be a moment. There's got to be something, some line in the sand, you know, and it's like every single day there's more and more horrible things happening. And instead you get them doubling down. Like, I'm gonna take a picture in front of the alligator Alcatraz, you know, and I'm like, these are human beings.
- [44:26]
Monty
Human beings. Yeah.
- [44:29]
Kyle Sullivan
Like, how. How are you, like, relishing at the idea of someone being torn apart? Like, it's, it's on. It's like reality shattering after a while. You know, you keep going, like, when am I gonna wake up? Like, this cannot be real.
- [44:43]
Monty
I personally think this all started when Harambe died. I think that's when we went into the bad place. I'm pretty sure that's when it happened. That's when we switched timelines.
- [44:51]
Kyle Sullivan
Did you see the picture? It was George Bush with Harambe's mom.
- [44:55]
Monty
Yes.
- [44:56]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. It was like, this goes all the way to the top.
- [45:01]
Monty
This is the secret. Because one of the things, you know, I think that, like, the marriage of Republicanism with faith, like where this idea is where if someone introduces themselves as a Christian, you kind of default assume they're Republican. I mean, that's been going on since Nixon got the boot out of Watergate. Because there was a lot of conservatives who loved Nixon even more when they found out what he did, because they're like, oh, he'll do anything. And then Reagan was where it really just became this one unit. And I mean, I. Growing up in church, I was told that you could not be a Christian and vote Democrat. I was told that you could not be Pro choice, that you could not be, you know, loving to the LGBTQ community. Like, those were defining lines in your faith. And the irony of it is that, like, especially with, like, you're talking about the teachings of Christ, you would think that if abortion and, like, being anti gay were, like, staples of his ministry, he would have mentioned them once.
- [45:55]
Kyle Sullivan
Doesn't say it at all.
- [45:56]
Monty
He doesn't. And, like, the Bible's extremely vague, like, on, like, issues like that. Like, a lot of these culture issues, the people like what the Bible says. I'm like, it really doesn't. But when you've grown up in this indoctrination of just believe what we tell you, believe what we tell you, believe what we tell you. Distrust everyone on the outside. The Democrats, the scientists, the satanic atheists, whoever. They're like, distrust all these people. You. You grow up immediately trusting, distrusting anyone who's not out your group, outside of your group. So when someone comes along, even Trump, who's clearly not a believer, who's the most immoral human that's maybe walked the face of the earth, like, close friends with Epstein, like, the whole Epstein thing, I'm like, he's just kind of emphasizing that he's definitely on the list.
- [46:39]
Kyle Sullivan
Yes, absolutely.
- [46:41]
Monty
But all he has to do is come online and say a couple of the trigger words, right? Like, we're gonna go after the trans kids, or we're gonna be ban abortions. And those people become. Are like sleeper cells. They hear those trigger words and all of a sudden they're like, now I'm gonna vote for this person. Because those are my trigger words. And what I'm concerned with, I do see a lot of attitude shift online in the last week around the Epstein.
- [47:07]
Kyle Sullivan
Oh, yeah.
- [47:08]
Monty
For a lot of people, that is a line where they're like, wait a minute. Because that was such a big talking point.
- [47:14]
Kyle Sullivan
That's what it was built on, man.
- [47:15]
Monty
Like, the Democrats are hiding the list.
- [47:18]
Kyle Sullivan
Yes. And, well, and that's. That's this weird thing where they. I think they believe that we view the Democrats as. As the same way that they view MAGA and Trump. Right? Because I do not know.
- [47:34]
Monty
I'm like, bro, they make me so mad sometimes.
- [47:36]
Kyle Sullivan
I'm like, I know. I'm like, like, MAGA is like a dog shit sandwich, and the Democrat Party right now is a sandwich that does have still some poop on it, you know, like, you don't want to eat either one of these, you know? And so. But yeah, they. They'll be like, you don't Want the Democrats being exposed. And I'm like, anyone on that list?
- [47:58]
Monty
I want them. Drag them out into the of them. Yeah.
- [48:01]
Kyle Sullivan
And the. The Epstein thing was one thing that seemingly was actually one of the lines in the sand. Like, when you have Alex Jones going, talking, saying, like, I don't know, like, maybe. Maybe he is lying. I'm like, we are living in the Upside Down.
- [48:18]
Monty
There's some people that I've agreed with over the past couple months, but I'm like, I never in a million. Carlson and Ted Cruz and Laura Loomer, Marjorie Taylor Greene. I was like.
- [48:31]
Kyle Sullivan
What is happening? And. Which was so frustrating watching that with Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz, because I'm like, so you can do good.
- [48:40]
Monty
Yes.
- [48:41]
Kyle Sullivan
Journalism. You know, like, well.
- [48:42]
Monty
And when he was. He was ragging on Fox News for lying, which they do. They admitted in open court. I was like, dude, you were. They were paying you millions of dollars a year to do exactly that. And you did it willingly. You're just not on the payroll anymore. So now you're saying something. But you always could have done better, but it wasn't worth it.
- [48:59]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. To, like, damage an entire generation's brains for money. You know, it's. It's so unfortunate. But, yeah, the. The Epstein thing, like, they. Trump has been talking about this for, like, nine years, you know, saying, we're gonna expose the deep state. Expose the deep state. And then to out of nowhere, say, turns out wasn't really anything in it, and then say actually was a hoax. It was made by Joe Biden. Obama and Osama obviously.
- [49:31]
Monty
Wrote the Epstein files.
- [49:33]
Kyle Sullivan
And I'm like, bro, this happened during your first term.
- [49:36]
Monty
Talking about.
- [49:38]
Kyle Sullivan
He. He had just said today, like, who. Who knows? Like, what? You know, because Biden was in from, you know, 2020 to 2024. He's like, who knows what they were putting in those files during that time? And I'm like, if they made it.
- [49:51]
Monty
What do you mean?
- [49:52]
Kyle Sullivan
What else they would put in there? You're like, it's just. It looks so painfully obvious that this is a person that is horrified of something coming out and he is doing anything he can. All of the smoke screens, he's like a little MAGA octopus. And when. When the presser's on, he squirts his little fake news inkjet out and he's trying to get away, you know, but it's that. That's why it's so hard for me when. When you're trying to be, like, meet someone halfway. But I. But, like, halfway is fully in conspiracy theory. Indoctrination camp. You know, I'm like, yep. Oh, it's so frustrating.
- [50:35]
Monty
But I will say, like I said, I've seen a lot of people, like, start to change their mind and be like, wait, why is he hiding these? He is like, I think, I do think that for a lot of people that will be a turning point. And there's going to be some, though, that won't, like, it won't matter what he does. They're never going to waver. But I think a lot of people are. And one of the things, because we mentioned again, talking about topics before the episode, we're in this pendulum swing, right? Society operates on a pendulum where we're in this, like, unbridled technology and this like, fascist state ideologies. And it's not just here, it's happening in the UK and in Germany's far right group has gotten stronger. And what, what do you think the pendulum swing looks like going back? Because it's going to go back. The question is, when does it go back and how far is it going to swing? What do you think some of the possible changes are?
- [51:28]
Kyle Sullivan
So, I mean, because especially if you look historically, this is cyclical. You know, you have the rise of authoritarian powers and fascism and then they get toppled over and over. You know, it's this hold, it's the wheel of power, right? So we're at this point right now with artificial intelligence and all of these apps, the Internet, like, everything, it's. It's this like, addiction of abundance and excess. And I think especially as we start seeing sectors really get eroded from AI and you have huge swaths of people that are like, what am I gonna. There goes my job. You know, I think we're going to see this kind of societal pullback, at least to something that was not so invasive, where, like, you know, my water bottle has AI now, you know.
- [52:20]
Monty
Yeah, exactly.
- [52:21]
Kyle Sullivan
And so I think, like, the, the way I've thought about it is I'm like, I wonder if there's going to be little pockets of communities that, that are like, look, man, we want physical movie medium media again. You know, like, we want a very regular Internet. We want flip phones. And I don't know quite what that will look like. But I, I do know that if we stay on this track and entrench ourselves even further in this, we, we just get closer to this dystopian, like this, this point of where it's like, what. What are we even here for? Yeah, like, why? Well, like, why are we interacting with any of it? You know, because human, like, the human experience is not just about efficiency. It's not just about this idea that, like, you have to make money and be as productive as possible. I'm like, have you ever just gone to the beach and sat down and put your feet in the sand and like, had a sandwich and you had to like, get some sand off and then you make a memory?
- [53:17]
Monty
There's no shit on this sandwich. On this proverbial sandwich you can eat.
- [53:21]
Kyle Sullivan
This is a 90s nostalgia sandwich. I want one so bad.
- [53:26]
Monty
Oh, and that I think about that too. And I mean, I work in the music industry and you know, so you saw the rise of, you know, records, vinyl coming back, and people wanted this, this tangible, touchable experience that had, you know, the unique sound qualities you only get from a record. And then Kendrick Lamar had a tour where he had cassette tapes. So I do think we're already starting to see this desire for, like, less tech, like, as much as, like, technology helps so much. I don't want to be on call all the time.
- [53:55]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah.
- [53:55]
Monty
And I'm like, I think there will be this shift, but I think it's going to have to come. I think we're going to have to have regulation. We can already prove that we've had foreign AI interfering with our election process. Like, we have the evidence of it and we have to be able to regulate these things both from an environmental standpoint. Boxtown, Tennessee is being choked out from Elon's, you know, turbine massive AI farm. Well, yeah, and he promised, you know, there'll only be 15 turbines. They've been running 33, you know, and now that that county is the number one, like, cause of like, asthma related emergency calls. And so there has to be a way that we reel it in. Because what I worry about is that we're losing our ability to connect with each other. Like, we've forgotten what it means to sit next to someone and just watch the sunset or watch a movie or like something that's more tangible. And we're losing each other. And then we, we look at that in the, in the lens of politics. It's getting, you know, in the 70s, people lived in like mixed political leaning neighborhoods. You had a friend that was a Democrat and a friend that was Republican, and this guy's an independent.
- [55:02]
Kyle Sullivan
I talk about that all the time.
- [55:03]
Monty
Yes, but now we live in like very sectioned neighborhoods. Our churches are usually one affiliation or not or our schools or whatever. And technology separating us and our ideology separating us, like, that's how we've Gotten so far apart because we've forgotten that it's not right versus left, it's top versus bottom, and that we all have so much in common. But again, it goes back to this rhetoric of the powers that be of like, no, no, no, no, don't. Don't look at me to be accountable to pay my share of taxes. Blame this poor person over here. It's crazy.
- [55:36]
Kyle Sullivan
And that, see, that drives me nuts. Where, where they're constantly told, never shown. Right? They're always saying that, like, oh, they want to do this. And I'm like, but if you look at these politicians voting records, like they are voting against you every single time. And, and you don't want, like you actually, if you sat and thought about it, you don't want to live in this homogenized world where everyone has the, the same house and they all think the same way and you all watch the same movie. Like, it is like the, the diversity and the, the variety in life is what makes it cool and different and unique. Like, you don't want to want the same thing. Even people that are saying, yeah, I do want that. I'm telling you, you don't. If you get to that, that version of the world, you're gonna hate it. You know, Try eating pizza every single day for three years. Tell me you're still gonna like pizza at the end of that, you know. Yeah, but, but like, even with the big beautiful bill where, where it's like, it's in. It's in the bill. Like, how else do I show you that this is tax cuts for people that already have all. You don't even have to have any understanding of politics that like, why would the people that have all the money deserve more money?
- [56:51]
Monty
Yeah.
- [56:52]
Kyle Sullivan
At our expense, you know, and yeah, we're. We're becoming completely isolated at the altar of connectivity, you know, where it's like we're. We're more connected than ever. And I'm like, we're not. We have lost. We have lost something vital, you know, and it, like you said, we. We don't even understand or we don't know how to communicate with each other in real life anymore. It seems almost like you're naked when you're talking to someone that you're not prepared to have a conversation with, you know, even like just walking in the grocery store, you know, And I know I'm painting with a broad brush. I'm sure they're sure there are still people that do this. But like, on a societal scale, like, you know, you don't see people just sitting down and chatting and striking up conversations. Very often we are always in our phones and I don't say any of this, you know, from my ivory tower, talking down from my pedestal because like I do, I have a social media following and I'm on my phone, you know, and I have, I've doom scrolled in the past and I try really hard to be cognizant of that, you know, but it's just this, this form of escape because as the horrors in reality get worse, we're looking for something that makes us feel better. And the, the little doom box, like even though sometimes you're seeing really scary stuff, you also see like cat videos or you know, other fun stuff or.
- [58:17]
Monty
Someone that you resonate with or like.
- [58:19]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, or someone you miss.
- [58:20]
Monty
And I, I caught myself doing that the other day because again, being a full time content creator is new for me. And so, but I'm like, man, I am in a hurry all the time and like, I'm in this hurry speed, like New York speed walking all the time. But I'm always in my phone and I've got one phone for business, one personal phone and I'm like, this is getting out of hand. Yeah, this is like. But even being here with my family, you know, being able to just sit down and talk with them, I'm like, oh, I've just missed sitting down and having a conversation. And my, my siblings and my family doesn't totally align with me politically and some things they're very opposed to me with. But it's, we're getting, we're having this chance to have these conversations that I don't. We need, we desperately need, culturally, I don't know how we get there is what I don't know.
- [59:11]
Kyle Sullivan
Well, I think part of it is through things like you are doing and to a very, you know, a much smaller extent, the things I am attempting to do because I, I think by you educating, by you being out there and making these videos, it helps people not feel alone and crazy, but it's also educating them and those have ripple effects in people's day to day, their actual lives. Right. So how we grab the re from this, you know, wild horse running towards the edge of the cliff, that's something that unfortunately I think we're gonna have to all kind of figure out together. I, when I think about it, I think that there's probably segments of MAGA that have stayed in for different reasons and I think there's a good chunk of them that are just kind of Afraid and ashamed and don't want to come back. And because they're like, it's the sunken cost fallacy. You know, they've been. They've been in it too long and they're afraid. And so it's. It can be also really frustrating as someone on the left being told that, like, once again, we have to be charitable and accepting and forgiving to let these people come back. And it makes me, like, grit my teeth. But then I try to focus on, like, what is our goal? What is our goal here? Like, is our goal to stop the United States from falling and becoming a totalitarian dictatorship? And then it's like, so do we. Do we once again have to swallow our pride and light the path back for them? You know, I think there are some other people that haven't come over yet because they just have not seen the evidence in a way, or at least in a mindset that they were willing to open their eyes. But once they do, once they see it, then I think the dominoes start falling. And that kind of. Unfortunately, that's kind of subjective into, like, what will work on this person? How do they get there? And it kind of. For me, I've seen this. This parallel between alcoholism, religion, maga, where this thing that becomes your entire identity is really hard to let go of because the unknown is very scary. And to admit that, you know, I was a alcoholic this whole time and I spent over, like, I'm sorry, I was in maga and, you know, defending this guy that, like, clearly is horrible in every single way, you know, and so I. I know that, like, we. We all want answers, right? Like, we all want, like, how do we do it? Just, like, tell me what to do and. And I will help. And I think, unfortunately, we're kind of building the plane as we fly it, you know, I do know, though, that, like, the things you do, especially these bigger creators and unfortunately bigger, like, like, masculine men looking people, because that, I think helps get through into potentially more MAGA dude minds. And they were a, yes. Push towards Trump. And so, like.
- [62:06]
Monty
Well, yeah, the. The manosphere in Cellosphere was a huge catalyst, massive in, like, affecting, like the. The rise of this kind of alt, right maga, very violent vitriol young men. Like, and that was. That was part of the, you know, the extremism that started to get built was you had these guys who, if the Internet didn't exist, people be like, you know, like you said, shut up, Jim. See you Thanksgiving. But these men were given microphones and started spewing this horrific rhetoric about women, you know, and how women deserve to be subjugated and, you know, you should be in a house barefoot and pregnant with the kids. You need to serve me, you need to cook for me. And man, did young men buy into it.
- [62:51]
Kyle Sullivan
It. I think, I think a huge part of that is because to have to admit, like, why am I, why am I not attracting anyone? Right? Like, why have I had bad experiences with women? Like, you have to analyze yourself and be like, what am I doing wrong? Is, is there something about me that like, is weird or off putting or even beyond that? Like, are my, are my world views messed up? You know, and the red pill ideology said all that you're perfect the way you are. It's all them. And realistically they should be like little dogs that you pull on a leash and like, you make them do whatever you want. And I, I don't understand how you can't think, like, what if that was me? This, this like the, the most basic form of empathy, which is, would I want that to happen to me? No. Then I shouldn't do it to them. Right? The good, this golden rule.
- [63:45]
Monty
Yep.
- [63:46]
Kyle Sullivan
And the whole movement since, since it came about, I was always like, this is nuts. It. You're making them out to be something less than human because you think as, as a, you know, a human man, you should be able to do whatever you want. You have all the freedom in the world. But them, their brains just don't work quite as good. And that's why they, they seek these things almost instinctually. I'm like, it is so, it is so like I, I don't know, know truly like how people arrive there and sit with that and think like, yeah, no, that's, that's the way the world. Like, have you not, have you not talked to women and like that that are like into music or art or love reading or poetry or any of these things that like, they clearly just have brains like us and human bodies. And I have this idea where it's like if you had, you know, let's say 10 humans and you removed all their skin and be like, point out the, the white guy, point out the black man or the black woman. Like, you're not going to be able to tell because underneath we are the exact same creature. We're all the identical creature. That's why all of our organs are interchangeable with one another, you know?
- [64:55]
Monty
Yeah, well, and it's this thing in the incelosphere too. It marries itself so much to this conservative ideology because traditional like fundamentalist evangelicalism. Women are subservient. Women are less than women are. So, you know, your highest calling is to get married and have kids. So they kind of marry each other really well. And this in Cellosphere, you know, you talked about how does someone get to that point and not think through. Well, because they're impacting kids who are 14 to 16 and they're angry or they feel left out, they don't feel loved, they feel left behind. Maybe by their family, maybe by their school. Whatever it is, is. And again, it's that same thing of I'm gonna give you an enemy. It's the girl's fault. Yeah, it's her fault. Instead of dude shower sometimes.
- [65:41]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, like, I mean, I think it's as simple as like, what if you're able to look at yourself and be like, what would I be attracted to about myself if I was someone else? You know, like, do I do anything? Do I take care of myself? Because I was just having this conversation the other day about like how dating apps have kind of made so many people's like meet cutes. Being like I swiped, you know. Yeah.
- [66:08]
Monty
And where it's like so scared of dating apps.
- [66:10]
Kyle Sullivan
I could never, I. Luckily I never, I never had one. You know, I've been with Jennica for a long time. But this, this idea that we. You have to have the perfect pickup line. You got to be the optimal this, optimal that. Where like you, you don't have to be super good at talking to people because that in and of itself can end up being this like cute, endearing thing. If you get nervous around someone, they're more often than.
- [66:35]
Monty
It's adorable.
- [66:36]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. They're like, oh my God, he thinks I'm like super pretty or I'm very good looking and it makes them nervous. And so you're going to be more charitable to that interaction. You know, you're not gonna, on average, you're not gonna belittle someone, you know, But I think they, they run with this character of what they think a woman is, which is so weird because it's seemingly this total, you know, slut. I'm gonna run around, do all this, you know, horror stuff. And then over here it's also this like very Christian at home make raising the, the kids, you know, so it's like these, it's like, what are you looking for? And are you.
- [67:13]
Monty
And like women only exist in those two spaces. You're either, you know, the 30 year old virgin or you're clearly a slut. It, it's like, wait what, what, what do you mean? And then my favorite thing has been, is the question that pops up because, you know, like there was this long and they still do it, but it's not as prevalent as it felt last year where they were talking about like body counts for women.
- [67:31]
Kyle Sullivan
Oh yeah.
- [67:32]
Monty
And my, my recurring thought was, okay, so women aren't supposed to sleep with anybody, but guys are supposed to get their body count up.
- [67:40]
Kyle Sullivan
So who are they sleeping with?
- [67:41]
Monty
Who are you sleeping with? But it's this, you know, and I see these things like, oh, you know, women are gold diggers. And I'm like, you don't have any money. And then they're like, they only want men that are six foot two and have six pack abs and make six figures. I'm like, most women do not like Super Jack dudes.
- [67:58]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah.
- [67:59]
Monty
I was like, as someone who's worked in fitness for a veil, but like they then look at the, look at the men that women love. Like Pedro Pascal. Like there are so many women that would, that would literally like leave their homes and their families for Pedro Pascal, because he's nice, but he's this average looking, average height, like slim, but not.
- [68:21]
Kyle Sullivan
It'S, I, I think the cognitive dissonance. Yeah. What, what's so hard to like get through to them is that like in their mind they have like a five year old's understanding of what women would want in a man. And in their head it's an action hero, you know, it's like a Batman.
- [68:37]
Monty
It's like a man that they're super strong.
- [68:40]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, exactly. And it's like I'm the strongest, I'm the bestest, I'm the fastest, I'm the, my mom brought me snacks, you know, and, and so it's like what most women, I, I, you know, I try very hard not to speak in absolutes, you know, but like on average, most women in my experience really enjoy people that are emotionally intelligent. They don't take themselves too seriously. They're allowed to joke. They, if they see a sad movie, they, they'll allow themselves to cry because it's not an affront on their identity to cry because the dog gets run over. You know, like, and so the, when these guys say they focus so much on these aspects that ultimately are not like you have to be able to defend in the, in the battle. I'm like, bro, you're an accountant. Like, what are you talking about?
- [69:30]
Monty
You're an accountant.
- [69:32]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. I'm like, you're not going to war. And, but they, they, they use all of this, like, war terminology. Like, you're the alpha male. I'm like, you can't. You can't all be alpha males. That completely goes against. You have, like, groups of these guys walking around being like, we're all alpha males.
- [69:48]
Monty
I'm like, it's like, are you.
- [69:50]
Kyle Sullivan
To who? To who's in the hierarchy also?
- [69:53]
Monty
So this whole I get really bothered by this protector conversation because are. Are there a lot of men who are protectors? Of course. But the group that's having this conversation, I'm like, women. A modern woman's greatest threat is men.
- [70:09]
Kyle Sullivan
Yes.
- [70:10]
Monty
The greatest threat to our safety is a man. You know, it goes back to the whole man and bear covers. And so it's like, if you're gonna have this honest conversation about being a protector, you need to have an honest conversation combating male violence against women. But then they're, oh, well, what did she do? It's like, it's. Women in these conversations become a service, not a person.
- [70:32]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, exactly. Like a means to an end.
- [70:34]
Monty
Yeah.
- [70:35]
Kyle Sullivan
And. And it's so. It's so weird how they've made it seem like if. If you acknowledge this, like, as. As a man, if you go like, yeah, men are the biggest threat to women, somehow they're like, oh, well, that's emasculating. You're simping for them. And I'm like, first off, it's factually provable, like, men are evidence. Like, men are the thing. But secondly, when you say men, that. That. That a net you cast, it's not scooping up men that don't do those things and have not done those things to their partners. Right. Like, that are good men. Right. But all the people that are doing those things to women are the men. Right. And so if. If you hear, like, you know, men are. Are violent to women, and you go, well, I'm a man, and I'm not violent. It's like, that's probably not referring.
- [71:23]
Monty
That it's not talking to you.
- [71:24]
Kyle Sullivan
You know, I'm like, so maybe don't take offense to it. And I think there's this. This. They've, like, really gotten effective at caring about any group, especially marginalized groups or. Or women, if you care about that, because their mind is so transactional, they're like, well, why. Why are you doing that? Like, oh, you're probably trying to say that you're for, like, you know, women being safe or whatever because you're trying to sleep with her. And it's like, people can care about other people because they Care about other people, and they don't require this reward.
- [72:02]
Monty
At the end of it, you know, Nice guy syndrome. I'm gonna buy you dinner, but that means you have to put out. And I'm like, dude, I can take myself to Applebee's.
- [72:09]
Kyle Sullivan
Like, you're not nice. You're a fucking creep. That's what you're doing. I will draw her in with my. My monies and my fried chickens, and then she'll give me what I want.
- [72:20]
Monty
And it's.
- [72:21]
Kyle Sullivan
It's so like you're setting up a fucking trap. Guilt trap, dude. Like, you're not a nice guy.
- [72:29]
Monty
That was a great. That was a great voice. That's how that's gonna narrate all the nice guys in my life from now on. That's gonna be the voice in the.
- [72:36]
Kyle Sullivan
Background when I do my lives. People always want me to do that voice downhill, deep into the microphone like this.
- [72:47]
Monty
So. And I think that the. The manosphere is like, a really powerful of how social media has created these kind of whirlpools, but especially, like, as a man and as a white man, how. What do you see as men's role with that particular pendulum? Because in a lot of ways, in the manosphere, it doesn't give a shit what I say. It doesn't get, like, nobody cares how many facts I have because I'm a woman. How do men start to steer that ship differently?
- [73:13]
Kyle Sullivan
I think a huge part is just by leading by example. Right. And that, that might be more on like, a local scale, but I, you know, I'm not saying everyone has to end up being like an influencer and making all this content for it, but I feel like the. The men that are. That have a platform and aren't red pill. Like, I think at the very least when these things arise, you need to. To talk about it. But I, I would take it even a little step further and be like, bro, like, this is a social service that you are doing to, like, young men who might not have father figures, right. Who are jaded on the world and they feel like they're just looking for a reason to. To be angry and not have to take any, like, accountability and like, to be. To be charitable. Like, life, it's not like, you know, women have it really hard and then men also have, like, no issues. Like, life is hard for human beings. Yeah, Right. And we sometimes have different struggles. And so it's not to say that, that your life as a. As a guide can. It's just this, like, you're walking on sunshine. Like it can. Both things can exist at the same time. Life can be really hard, but you don't fix that by. By beating women down to below you. Right. And so I think it just takes, I mean, you like, almost like a father figure. Like, you have to teach. You have to teach this group of people. Like, hey, man, like, it doesn't make you any less to care about other people, to listen to women. Like, that's not emasculating. To care about your wife.
- [74:50]
Monty
Yeah.
- [74:50]
Kyle Sullivan
To like care about your mom and your sister or like your friend. Like, there's nothing emasculating or diminishing or limb prison about like giving a. And and I think that's what like these, you know, other male influencers can do is be like, man, if you think that makes you weak, like, that is your weakness is that you're so worried about constantly being perceived as weak. And we make people do that. Like, focus on yourself being a good person, being there for people around you, and like the rest falls in place. Man, life opens up when you stop being such a, you know, like, I swear to God, I swear to God, it gets better.
- [75:32]
Monty
Well, and what I was to like to give credence to that. There is that conversation of like, when women are discussing the struggles that we go through because we're women, like, whatever those. We're not saying that men don't have struggles because our society has created horrible impacts on men. Like this idea of you're just a provider and a paycheck. No, you're a person that's allowed to feel the full bandwidth of your emotions. But when you grow up as a young man and they tell you, oh, you can't cry, you can't do this, don't be a sissy, don't be this. Where else are you going to output all that emotion but rage?
- [76:11]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, I know.
- [76:12]
Monty
So there are these real conversations and I think that it is about other men showing those emotions and showing those. That spectrum and having those conversations that gives younger men permission to. Dude, you get to be fully human with us.
- [76:27]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, exactly. Like, it's, it's about everyone enjoying the human experience together. We have but this one life. Life, enjoy it. Don't spend it like hating other people and building these weird narratives in your head. I will say when it comes to like us reaching people though, there is this thing that I have noticed when we, you know, within the last like 10, 15 ish years where we started progressing a lot and then all of these kind of new terms were popping up in Common vernacular, like patriarchy and systemic and this, you know, and like while all these things are true and accurate, I think when you're trying to reach some of these people, they hear those and they shut it down in their mind as like, you're just a blue hair, crazy liberal person. Right?
- [77:14]
Monty
Yep. Nose ring.
- [77:15]
Kyle Sullivan
So and so, having those conversations, speaking rather than like trying to like, you know, regurgitate this. Something that could go in like a thesis. Right. Like, I tend to like to use simplistic words and not, not as a critique against their intellect, but just like, I just want the, the concepts to be like fully out in the open. Like I'm, I'm not, you know, trying to, you know, trap them in anything or it's just, I just want to be able to, to have like very straightforward conversations without them feeling like, oh my God, no, you're gonna suck me into the thing that I've been raging against this whole time. Right. Because the, the goal is to be like, hey man, this doesn't serve you like what you're doing. Like, you think it's, it's helping you or it's making you like a stronger, cooler, scarier man or whatever, but it's just isolating you. And at the end of the day, you're still laying in that bed alone, whether you had a one night stand or not. Because what you want is connection. You want to love someone and you want intimacy.
- [78:20]
Monty
And that doesn't just mean sex.
- [78:22]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. I've never heard any of the red pill guys ever talking about love, which is so crazy because it's one of the only reasons why some people continue on with their life. You know, probably vast majority of people have been like, I love my family, I love my kids, I love my wife. Without them, I don't know what I would do. Like, and when you're, you're signing that away for not. And not even a permanent thing, not even for the rest of your life thing. Like, we all get old, man. We all age. And so this idea that you're going to be this gym monster forever, you're not, your knees are going to start hurting or maybe you get an injury or whatever and then you can't work out what your value as a person is gone now because you've added some weight. Like, no man like you, you. There's so much more to what it, what being human means than the shell that we inhabit.
- [79:13]
Monty
Yeah. It's like, and they're, they're building a system to die at their own hands because the rules they are building for manhood. They will eventually, like you said, age out of injury, out of. They might lose their job. And if that's the. If that's the summation of men's value that you've created on these platforms, you've. You've already. You've already taken yourself out of the game because you've forgotten that we're people first. And it's.
- [79:39]
Kyle Sullivan
It makes us look so stupid, too.
- [79:41]
Monty
It is. It's just like, why?
- [79:43]
Kyle Sullivan
Like, that's all we care about is like, I rock. Stick your man top. You know? And I'm like, bro, like.
- [79:49]
Monty
Because nothing says super secure than being obsessed about if other men think you're a beta or not.
- [79:54]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, I know. Like, like, that's when. When you look at the. These, like, you know Pedro Pascal, right? Like, that dude's just walking around living.
- [80:03]
Monty
His life and wearing a crop top. Just chilling.
- [80:05]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, he is super. Like, he knows who he is. And that is confidence that, like, he drips with confidence. But is he this Arnold Schwarzenegger, like, mixed with, like, a great white shark? Just aggression? No, he's just a dude vibing, living his life. And that. It's magnetic. Like, people want to be around people that they don't feel threatened by or have to worry. It's actually, it's the exact opposite of what they think. It's like, women want, like, a really aggressive, angry fucking. And like.
- [80:38]
Monty
No, they really don't.
- [80:40]
Kyle Sullivan
They like the. The amount of times in your life that you have to, like, be like, okay, I have to defend my family physically right now. Like, it may never happen. It may never happen. Right? And when it does, if it does, then defend them and you'll be the knight in shining armor. But you're you. That doesn't mean you walk around in full plate armor for the rest of your life waiting for something to happen.
- [81:04]
Monty
It's true. It's true. It's like, that's my thing is like, okay, like, you may never experience someone trying to break an enter, but, like, every day you have to try to build a relationship with your partner. Like, are you going to protect her from your unhealed trauma? Are you going to protect her from your own emotions, your own addictions, your own things that you haven't faced? Because she's going to face that. You're going to face that every day. And I will say that, like, I appreciate men like you being online and being so vocal. And I mentioned in your intro that you, you know, you do alternative modeling and there's the Halloween Horror aspect. But what was really the turning point on your page? Because you had a big platform before you really started being vocal about these issues. What really changed for you where you're like, man, I got to get this page, you know, haters be damned, and speak the truth.
- [81:54]
Kyle Sullivan
So, like, I have. I had made a couple videos in the past here and there, and I wouldn't say that I was like, completely married to the whole, like, you know, aesthetic, stepping outside, because I've never, I didn't set out to make content. Like, I've never done that. I had a personal Instagram and I got a TikTok at the beginning of. Of COVID you know, and so I was just making goofy videos, but it was also just my, my personal Tick Tock. They're, they're almost like a mirror of one another. You know, I'll like, record something on Tick Tock and upload that across all my platforms, you know. But so I, I have spoken. It wasn't like someone could go, I don't know where he, you know, lands politically, like, yeah, you know, pepper him in. But this, this time around, it was the, the deportation aspect and it was the tariffs. I actually, I think originally it was the tariffs because the. I don't think the deportations had started happening at. The kidnappings had started happening yet, because the. I think that is what it was because tariffs, like, the, this misunderstanding of what a tariff was, and even seemingly from Trump not understanding how a tariff works and being like, we're just gonna judge China now. They're gonna pay tariffs. And I'm like, that's not the. How any of this works, you know, but his base is like, woohoo. And I would say to people like, do you think that China can just charge us a bill and we just got to pay it regardless? And they're like, no. And I'm like, then why the fuck could we do that to them? And, and so that, I think, was originally when I started speaking out about it, but then there's no shortage of content from, from Trump, you know, and when I really started weighing in on this is when I was like, I think I might be blowing up my platform. But I was like, it, you know, like, what's the point of having it if I can't say what I want? You know, like, and it's one of the coolest compliments I. I get is when I meet people that recognize me, they say, you're just like you are on, on your social media. And for me, that's always been I thought that was, like, that's the goal because it's mine, you know, it's me, you know? But, yeah, that, like, seeing all this stuff happening every single day. So you have the. The mass roundups of deportations and the. The hypocrisy with the. The religious beliefs being okay with so many of this stuff. The blatant, like, the big, beautiful bill that is, like, eroding these social programs and giving to the people with all the money. Like. Like, I just. I do this thing often where I call it either morning venom or afternoon venom. And it's me in my car just.
- [84:45]
Monty
You know, like, screaming into the abyss.
- [84:48]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. And. And Tik Tok has been pretty, like, quick to be like, oh, we're going to take, you know, community violation. Community. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing that is so different than other similar creators.
- [85:04]
Monty
I get flagged a lot on Tick Tock.
- [85:06]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. And so I'm like, I have, like, 600K that I would really hate if that just went away. So now I'm, like, making my Instagram and, you know, Blue sky substack versions. And then over on Tick Tock, I'm like, I am so darn tootin upset. You know.
- [85:25]
Monty
I gotta tell you, really chaps my drawers.
- [85:28]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah. And what's. What's funny is, like, I get this. I get this comment, and while I do appreciate it, I like, they. They say, like, oh, when are you running for office? Like. Like, I, you know, I want to vote for you for something. And what I take that as is people are starved for a message that just sounds like, normal, coherent. That makes sense. Yeah. Being like, if. If we were in a room, four of us, right? We each got a sandwich. One guy has 10 billion sandwiches, and we're like, hey, how are we gonna make it to the end of the month? And we're being told, well, for sure we're gonna cut all our sandwiches in half and give it to the guy with 10 billion sandwiches. Like, this is how. This is how absurd it is. And, like, I have family members that are maga. And I'm like, like, how do you not. Do you think I'm lying to you? That I'm trying to manipulate you? That, like, I'm hired by the goddamn vampire sucking the endocrine glands. I'm like, you raised me. You know me. Like, come on. I don't know. My. My hope is that the. The Epstein thing kind of breaks their brain. And what I. What I really would like is this Complete collapse of support. Right. But I think, think in reality, if his support does leave him, I think it's sadly going to be like a long, slow, wet fart. You know, we're not gonna have this. Like, they're all like, oh, screw you all in unison. It's gonna be getting like, weaker and weaker and weaker and weaker until he's like, who cares about it? Or his health issues.
- [87:14]
Monty
Yep, it. So what would be, as we start to wrap up, like, what would you say to people who are like, trying to find their voice in this space, as you know, and for a lot of people who are not religious, they're like, what is going on? And where do I fit into this? Where would you just say people start to kind of deal with what's around us?
- [87:38]
Kyle Sullivan
What I would say is I wouldn't look to someone else to figure out what is right, right and wrong. I would look within yourself and be like, if you, I mean, you know, you know, when something is wrong or evil, trust that, like, don't, don't go to the news. Don't go to even your favorite independent journalists or anything. Like, just look at it with your own eyes and ask yourself, like, am I okay with that? Would I be fine if I was in their position? Right. And I think if you start are there, you have a really good foundation to understand, like, what, what you should be aligning with. And beyond that, I mean, there's, you know, whole tiers of involvement. Like you. It could be as something as simple as going to a protest, and especially if you're coming away from like center or even MAGA or something. But like going to these protests, you'll realize it is not what they say it is on the news, where it's just, you know, know, absolute pandemonium, chaos, Molotovs being thrown everywhere. Like, I was just at 1 yesterday, right?
- [88:42]
Monty
Yep.
- [88:42]
Kyle Sullivan
And we're just chilling. You got your sign, people honk and you're like, woohoo. You know, like you're other ones are bigger and you're in a big march, you know, and you just got to remember any. Any time you get a lot of people in one space, there's going to be a couple, you know, but further beyond that, I. I think knowledge is power, you know, So I would read, I would. You can read historical books about like, previous regimes, or you could read fiction like 1984, Fahrenheit 451. You can. Hell, like, even if you just want to just read for your own mental health. Because now I'm Realizing I'm like, if you want to escape this still further into the reality of things that. That have happened that were horrible, fine. But I guess my last one would be if you. If you really are on the fence about what's going on with this administration, I would. I would definitely do a little bit of research on how authoritarianism rises up and what that looks like, and be honest with yourself and say, h. Have these things happened? Because the answer to that is absolutely, these things have and are happening. And it's at the expense of people that have been in our country that have helped cook our food and grow and. And pick our food and like members of our community that are just human beings. And you should. If you are okay with horrible things happening to human beings because they're brown or a piece of paper, you're not as good of a person as you think you are. That's what I would say. I ended that.
- [90:24]
Monty
I like it. I like it. And so. So where can. First of all, we need to do an Instagram rant. I feel like we. You and I need to go live on Instagram at some point and just do a rant. I feel like, yes, we would love that match up there. But for everyone listening, where can they find all of your content and your upcoming book when you make those announcements?
- [90:43]
Kyle Sullivan
Yes. So it's Celtic Jumper across all platforms. So Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack, Blue Sky. And I think there was there another one in there somewhere. If there's a social media that you're on, just look up Celtic Jumper. And if I'm on there, I'm on there. I'm like, going around grabbing it. But those are the main ones, Instagram, YouTube and tick tock. And I just recently got a Blue sky because I don't know what's going on with Tick Tock.
- [91:16]
Monty
Version coming out in September.
- [91:19]
Kyle Sullivan
Yeah, Like, I don't know what to believe because I keep seeing things that are like, this is definitely happening. And it's this. And other people saying, like, no, that's an extrapolation of something that wasn't verified as far as, like, the extent of it. But I don't know, it all felt different once it went away for 24 hours and came back. Like, everything just felt different after that. Yeah, yeah, very different. And then unfortunately, you're just gonna have to follow me on one of these to know when the book is happening, because I am am currently writing it right now, so. But I. I would hope, like, within a year. But it. I will be blasting it all over my socials. But, yeah, how I got sober, without aa, without religion. And it's, you know, semi autobiographical. And I want it to be a good read for anyone, whether you're, you know, alcoholic or an addict or not, you know. So I think it's gonna be good.
- [92:08]
Monty
Life story. So thank you again for being here and joining this conversation. I hope everyone listening. It was a conversation about how do we heal? How do we bridge some of these gaps? How do we create a space where everybody of every belief or every orientation or every nationality can be part of this system in a healthy, meaningful way that, you know, maybe we can be great for everybody for once this time. So thank you again for being here. And I will see all of you next week on Flipping Tables.