Flipping Tables - Episode 35: Faction to Faith with Caroline Stout

Host: Monte Mader
Guest: Caroline Stout
Release Date: October 1, 2025

Episode Overview

In one of the most emotionally charged and timely episodes to date, host Monte Mader is joined by Caroline Stout, a fellow former conservative and ex-staffer for Turning Point, to discuss their journeys out of the alt-right evangelical and conservative spheres. Against a volatile backdrop—including the recent assassination of Charlie Kirk, escalating political violence, and the further entrenchment of Christian nationalism—Monte and Caroline reflect on the deep questions of deconstruction, healing, the allure of belonging, and strategies for impactful dialogue in families and communities torn by ideological conflict.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Context: Violence, Fear & Political Upheaval

• Monte opens the episode (00:00–07:10) acknowledging listeners' grief and fear after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, laying out a week's worth of unprecedented developments: new restrictions, firings for dissent, and harsh legal proposals targeting dissenters.
• She asserts her nuanced view:
  • "It's horrific...I also know that he died on an altar that he built...I'm not going to lie and say that he didn't push hateful rhetoric on a lot of people..." (03:05)
  • "You can be horrified by it and also be horrified by the things that Charlie Kirk promoted.” (04:42)
• Monte shares personal threats and doxxing she's faced, underscoring her resolve to continue this work despite real risk.

2. The Allure and Cost of Belonging

• The heart of the dialogue is the universal human longing to belong, and the ways that both right-wing movements and progressive spaces harness or fail to offer it.
• Monte calls on white ex-fundamentalists/nationalists to take a leading role in unraveling these systems:
  • “It is my job as a white person who contributed to this movement to stand on the front lines and try to do everything I can to undo it.” (06:30)
• Caroline's experience as a “blue dot in a red area”—living in Amarillo, TX after growing up in Houston—serves as a jumping-off point for discussing the role of environment in radicalization.

3. Caroline’s Journey: From Indoctrination to Deconstruction

• Caroline outlines her upbringing in a conservative, Baptist megachurch world and a politically active family. She was block-walking for candidates at age four (09:11).
• At 16-17, she becomes involved with Turning Point, drawn by the sense of significance and belonging:
  • “That sense of importance and that sense of belonging was really something that drew me in.” (11:57)
• Her work at Turning Point, especially in media, exposes her to subtle manipulations:
  • “I started to realize, hold on, am I being duped?...Am I a part of this kind of machine?” (16:14)
• Deconstruction was slow, internal, and filled with fear—questioning either her faith or her politics threatened the whole system:
  • “The first step...was giving myself permission to ask those questions.” (20:19)

4. Deconstruction, Doubt, and Religious Indoctrination

• The pair dissect how conservative/fundamentalist Christianity fuses faith with political ideology, discouraging any questioning:
  • Monte: “Faith requires doubt...once you start to question the political side...you have to question...this form of Christianity that I had been sold” (21:12–22:00)
• Caroline explains how questioning became both dangerous and liberating, especially as the political right became more militant post-2016:
  • “I couldn’t reconcile...the refrains of the right at that time...as somebody of faith, I just could not.” (23:04)

5. The Power of Narrative & Education

• Both women reflect on the whitewashing of American history in schools and the new push for even more ideological content (e.g., "patriotic civics courses").
  • Caroline: “The facts were so skewed. 100% so skewed...That’s before where we are now.” (31:12)
  • Monte: “The far right understands that you don’t get to this Christian fundamentalist idea of American exceptionalism unless you lie.” (34:00)
• Concern is raised that these tactics will lose an entire generation to the right:
  • “That’s the plan.” (35:03)

6. Trump Era, Shifting Conservatism & Free Speech

• Both comment on the shift from “old school” conservatism (with some respect for discourse/free speech) to a movement intolerant of dissent.
  • Caroline: “To criticize MAGA...you are risking being booted out of this...community of belonging.” (49:01)
• Monte: “Silence has become complicity...for me at this point with people, I’m like, we stand on a very different moral surface when those are not deal breakers for you.” (52:34)

7. Family, Faith & the Pain of Division

• Caroline shares her struggles with family relationships, particularly as a sexual assault survivor whose family still supports Trump:
  • “It’s really, it’s really challenging...if you still voted for him despite what happened to me.” (50:41)
• Monte and Caroline both describe the pain and emotional cost of being “ideologically without a home," with Caroline validating the fear and loneliness of deconversion (55:58).

8. Strategies for Dialogue and Change

• Deprogramming and thoughtful engagement:
  • “You can’t reason or logic them out of it because they didn’t reason or logic their way in.” (Dr. Steve Hassan, as quoted by Monte, 54:50)
  • Both suggest asking questions rather than arguing, and “changing our dialogue” to create a soft landing for those questioning.
  • Caroline: “Demonizing the right and demonizing MAGAs...does not provide a soft place for them to land when they do start asking those questions.” (59:31)
• The importance of not expecting change from the “super die-hard MAGAs,” but being present for those “a little bit unsure” (63:58).

9. The Ongoing Deconstruction Process & Finding Peace

• Both share that deconstruction is never fully complete, and comfort with uncertainty is key:
  • Caroline: “Being able to sit with, not having a good solid elevator pitch...is a place of growth for me.” (68:48)
  • Monte: “There’s no way to have all the answers and that’s okay...” (69:24)
• The episode closes on the idea that the most important work is restoring love and connection—a return to “the foundation that Christ made love the foundation, more important than any other law.” (72:12)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Complexity of Current Events:
  “You can be horrified by [a political assassination] and also be horrified by the things that [person] promoted...You can not mourn, especially if you’re a member of the groups that were demonized by this person.” – Monte (04:42)
• On the Allure of Belonging:
  “All I had to do to earn...belonging was say, yes, I agree with you. And that was the ticket in.” – Caroline (59:31)
• On Free Speech:
  “Free speech for me, not for thee.” – Monte (41:48)
• On Facing Family Division:
  “It’s really challenging...if you still voted for him despite what happened to me.” – Caroline (50:41)
• On Creating Space for Dialogue:
  “If you can’t ask questions and it doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, it’s not the truth.” – Monte (26:41)
• On the Limits of Argument:
  “You can’t reason or logic them out of it because they didn’t reason or logic their way in.” – Monte, quoting Dr. Steve Hassan (54:50)
• On Deconstruction’s Uncertainty:
  “Being able to sit comfortably with not knowing is so challenging, but it is an ongoing process.” – Caroline (70:43)
• On the Need for Progressive Empathy:
  “Demonizing the right...does not invite them in...You are always welcome to change your mind...that’s how we grow the movement.” – Caroline (59:31)
• On the Role of Former Fundamentalists:
  “We are the only group of people who know that journey in this way...and it is our job...to undo it.” – Monte (06:30)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–07:10 – Opening monologue and personal response to political crisis
• 07:18–10:21 – Caroline’s upbringing & entry into Turning Point
• 13:19–18:25 – The inside world of Turning Point and media manipulation
• 22:33–24:53 – Trump era, language shift, and beginning of deconstruction
• 28:36–34:27 – Discovering omitted history and the danger of “patriotic” curriculum
• 35:31–39:42 – Turning Point’s targeting of youth and women, indoctrination strategies
• 41:21–44:43 – The shift away from “free speech,” rise of militancy
• 49:52–53:14 – Handling family conflict and the cost of standing apart
• 54:50–59:16 – Effective strategies for dialogue, belonging, and healing
• 69:24–73:07 – Ongoing deconstruction, embracing uncertainty, and concluding thoughts

Where to Follow Caroline Stout

• Instagram & TikTok: @BabyBlueTX – “Baby Blue because I'm a new baby liberal”
• Substack: Link in Instagram bio, though only lightly active

Final Thoughts

This episode is a powerful, honest, and grounded exploration of why people are drawn to—and leave—radical rightwing and evangelical spaces. Both Monte and Caroline exemplify integrity in reckoning with their pasts while offering hope and strategies for those seeking a path to healing and community. The key takeaway is the necessity of empathy, personal courage, and the continual making of spaces for hard but critical conversations; not to convert the entrenched, but to catch those teetering on the edge and offer them something real to belong to.