Flipping Tables – Episode 44: Home for the Holidays – How Do I Have This Conversation?
Host: Monte Mader
Date: December 3, 2025

Overview

In this candid, substantive episode, Monte Mader addresses the recurring holiday struggle for many listeners: “How do I talk to conservative family members about Christianity, politics, and social justice without losing my mind?” Drawing from her personal journey from alt-right evangelicalism to progressive Christianity, she arms listeners with practical information, context, and strategies to engage in tough conversations—especially about Christian nationalism, the Bible, abortion, LGBTQ+ rights, immigration, and white supremacy. Monte’s central thesis is clear: silence is no longer an option, but neither is self-sacrifice or arguing with those unwilling to listen. The goal is both personal empowerment and planting seeds for real change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge of Holiday Conversations

• Common Concerns: Many listeners dread returning home to conservative families, unsure how to discuss politics, religion, or whether to disengage entirely (04:00).
• Monte emphasizes practice as the key to confidence: “Start small. Start speaking up. Your voice gets stronger.” [12:00]
• Goal: Not everyone’s mind will change, but speaking up “plants seeds.”

2. What is Christian Nationalism & Why Does It Matter?

• Monte defines Christian nationalism as a movement weaponizing the Bible to justify hate and authoritarianism [09:00].
• Three main groups in her following: (1) Progressive Christians, (2) Exvangelicals, (3) LGBTQ+ individuals directly harmed by these ideologies.

3. On Losing (and Rebuilding) Relationships

• Monte recounts losing friends, church connections, and even temporarily family due to deconstruction, ultimately deciding: “the truth mattered more to me than those relationships.” [17:15]

4. Disclaimer: Your Safety and Mental Health Come First

• Don't engage open haters or violent, vitriolic people; focus on “planting seeds” with those who might listen. [23:30]

5. Why People Cling to Extremist Beliefs

• Key insight: Most people aren’t intentionally hateful; belonging, fear of change, indoctrination, and fear of losing heaven underpin group loyalty [25:00].
• Monte’s experience: deep indoctrination with exclusion from all outside perspectives.
• Political exploitation: scapegoating immigrants, stoking fear, and redirecting blame to “the common enemy” (top vs. bottom, not left vs. right).

Bible "Myth-Busters": Inspiration, Inerrancy, Univocality

(Starts ~37:00)

A. Inspiration

• 2 Timothy 3:16 (“all scripture is God-breathed”) is a linchpin for literalists, but the letter wasn’t even written by Paul (pseudepigrapha, written a century later).
• If “God-breathed,” why does the Old Testament allow polygamy, rape, slavery? [49:45 – Deuteronomy 21 example]

B. Inerrancy

• The Bible contains myths, poetry, contradictions, not a seamless historical record.
• Genesis chapters 1 and 2 contradict each other on creation order [58:00].
• Quote: “Does it though? Does it though?” —on “God’s word says it, that settles it.” [59:40]

C. Univocality

• The Bible was compiled over 1300 years by diverse authors with differing beliefs—hardly “one voice.”
• Contradictory accounts: even the resurrection stories differ across Gospels [1:03:00].

Conversation Strategies

“Don’t enter conversations expecting someone will change. Our job is to speak truth and let the truth do its own work.” [1:12:00]

- Always ask: “What did Jesus say about that?”

(For most hot-button topics, it’s either nothing at all or not what Christian nationalists claim.)

- Encourage them to argue with Jesus, not with you.

- Pick one actionable takeaway per topic; don’t try to master it all at once.

Deep Dives on Key Topics

1. Abortion: Biblical and Historical Context

[Starts ~1:16:00]

• Legal history: Abortion legal until the “quickening” through 1800s; criminalized by AMA to sideline women and midwives, not for moral/biblical reasons.
• Evangelical strategy: Originally, evangelicals didn’t care; abortion became central as a unifying political wedge issue in late 1970s.

What does the Bible actually say?

• Ancient Judaism: Life = breath. No personhood until first breath; Exodus 21:22–25 distinguishes harm to fetus (property loss) vs. woman (life for life).
  • “If the woman miscarries, it’s a fine. If she dies, it’s a capital crime.” [1:33:00]
• “Thou shalt not kill” is a mistranslation; it’s “murder” or “unlawful killing.”
• Poetic passages (Jeremiah 1:5, Psalms 139) are about unique prophetic relationships, not universal human personhood.
• Leviticus 27: No “person value” assigned to children under one month old.

Effective Response:

“What did Jesus say about abortion?” (Answer: nothing.)
“In the Old Testament, life began at breath.” (Exodus 21:22–25)
Challenging selective literalism: “Do you also believe in selling daughters or polygamy, since that’s in the Bible too?”

• The concept that life begins at conception is from Greek philosophy, not the Hebrew Bible.

Quote:

“The Bible never directly addresses abortion and neither does Jesus.” [1:43:00]

2. LGBTQ+ Rights and the Bible

[Starts ~1:50:00]

• Anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric: Modern translations of “homosexual” didn’t appear until 1946 (added in 1 Corinthians 6:9); original Greek referred to sexual exploitation, not orientation.
• Ancient sexual ethics focused on male agency, not consent or orientation.
• Leviticus “clobber verses”: Condemnation is about social hierarchy, not loving, consensual relationships. Female same-sex acts not even mentioned.
• Sodom and Gomorrah: Its “sin” is refusal of hospitality, not homosexuality (Ezekiel 16).

Memorable Moment:

“Which biblical marriage do you mean—Abraham, who molested Hagar, Jacob with two wives, Solomon with 300?” [1:57:00]

• Effective Tactics:
  • When confronted with “the Bible says one man, one woman, one lifetime,” ask about polygamy and biblical divorce/remarriage rules, pointing out obvious inconsistencies.
  • “Homosexuality” as a concept didn’t exist for biblical writers; their condemnations reference exploitative relationships, not queerness.
• Paul’s sexual ethic: Celibacy>marriage; saw sexual desire as a failing.
• In the New Testament, Jesus never addresses homosexuality.

Quote:

“God does not hate you. God made you this way… There is no biblical reason that you should be demonized.” [2:17:00]

3. Immigration: What Would Jesus Say?

[Starts ~2:31:00]

• Matthew 25: Welcoming the stranger is a litmus test for Christian virtue.
• Key stat: Undocumented migrants contributed $96.7 billion in US taxes in 2022; they pay into Social Security and Medicare which they cannot access.
  • “Who’s going to replace that tax bill?” [2:37:00]
• They work in roles Americans avoid, such as agriculture and construction, and prop up the economy.

Effective Response:

“The Bible commands us 2,000 times to take care of the poor and the foreigner.”
“If you are a Christian, you cannot use faith to justify harsh anti-immigrant policies.”

• The demonization of immigrants is a distraction—a “top vs. bottom” ruse.

4. White Supremacy & Gender Roles

[2:48:00]

• Contemporary Christian nationalist movements are ultimately about white, patriarchal control—especially over women and minorities.
• Birth control and abortion restrictions are about controlling women’s labor and bodies, not saving babies.

Practical Guidance & Encouragement

- Focus on the “red words”—the teachings of Jesus.

- “Make them argue with Jesus, not you.”

- When overwhelmed, use these as “cheat sheets.” Pick one talking point to master per conversation.

- “Know there is no good God who would make half the human race inferior. That's not real. That's prejudiced people creating God in their own image.” [2:54:00]

Recommended Resources:

• The Bible Says So – Dan McClellan
• Separation of Church and State – Randall Palmer
• Separation of Church and Hate – John Fugelsang
• The Making of Biblical Womanhood – Dr. Beth Allison Barr

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Start with something simple. Exodus 21 if you're talking about abortion, or that ‘homosexuality’ didn't appear in the Bible till 1946.” [2:57:00]
• “All of these arguments are selective literalism. It's cherry picking, especially from people typically married multiple times or not following any of the other Levitical codes.” [2:59:00]
• “For those struggling with your place in all of this, know: there is no good God who would make you less than.” [2:54:30]

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 04:00 – Holiday anxiety & family conversations
• 09:00 – Introduction to Christian nationalism
• 25:00 – Why people hold extremist beliefs
• 37:00 – The Bible: Inspiration, inerrancy, univocality
• 1:16:00 – Abortion: US history and biblical context
• 1:50:00 – LGBTQ+ rights: translation, history, biblical myths
• 2:31:00 – Immigration & economic facts
• 2:48:00 – White supremacy and patriarchal control
• 2:57:00 – Practical encouragement & resource list
• 2:59:00 – Final encouragement: your worth, your voice

In summary:
Monte concludes by urging listeners to “speak truth and let the truth do its own work.” Don’t let fear, or someone’s “sham of faith,” back you into a corner. Start small, keep learning, and remember—change starts with courageous conversations, even when you’re the only one at the table flipping it over.