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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by McAfee. I got a message that our flight was canceled, but they can put us on another flight and we just need.
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B
To confirm our credit card info. Wait, I got a security alert from McAfee. It flagged that message as a scam.
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A
McAfee's scam detector automatically spots and alerts you to suspicious texts, emails and deepfake videos. Learn more@mcafee.com Online protection in the midst.
- [00:31]
B
Of everything going on online and the breaking news, headlines and experts debating topics and honestly, a lot of rhetoric, it can get really, really easy to feel like I don't even know how to have these conversations. I don't have enough information, I don't have enough expertise or I didn't grow up in these movements. How can I possibly talk to people about these topics that matter to me? Sometimes the imposter syndrome can get the better of us.
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A
And.
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B
And that's why I've invited our guest today to talk more about having the difficult conversations and how accessible it really is. You have probably seen her videos online where she does sketches, having these hilarious and beautifully simple conversation about real life issues for real people. Her name is Anna Connelly. You can find her on Instagram at. Anna Connolly is cool. Again, hilarious, accessible, and today her and I are gonna have a very casual conversation talking to you, the listener, about how these conversations that can really make change in your home, in your neighborhood, in your school, in your church are so accessible to you and that you don't have to be an expert, you don't have to have all the information. If you show up with your heart and you show up with honesty and curiosity, we can have the type of conversations that can shift the tide against the polarization we see happening in America today. So I have invited Anna Connolly to talk about how having those hard conversations today on Flipping Tables. Anna, welcome to Flipping Tables. Thank you for joining me. Thank you so much.
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A
I'm so excited.
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B
I'm really excited to. I mean, I know a lot of my followers also follow you, but I'm really excited to kind of expand on the conversation, especially as people are going home for the holidays and getting ready to have these interactions. But before I kind of jump into, I gave your intro about what you do online and how accessible it is. But tell us like a little bit about you, where you grew up, where you live now, whatever you feel comfortable sharing just to get to know you a little better.
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A
Yeah, I think most people are surprised to know that I just started posting in April of this Year. So it's been a crazy, what, six, eight months now. But I grew up. I'm in Minneapolis. I grew up in kind of all over the place. We moved around a lot when I was a kid, but graduated high school from Rochester, Minnesota, which is this very interesting town because, you know, it's got the Mayo Clinic, so you have this super sciencey world, but then you also have, like a rural, very small town, Minnesota. So I grew up split between both of those, which I think is how I'm equal, you know, able to speak to both sides so well. And then I went to school in another really small Minnesota town up in Bemidji. But, yeah, so I've been in Minneapolis this whole time. And I just have always been a very observational person. So I think that's, you know, what, what makes it so easy for me to have the conversations, hear what somebody's saying, and kind of take it down to basics for my videos.
- [03:35]
B
And so, you know, you mentioned you just started posting this year, and I, I resonate with you on that because I really didn't start making this content till February. So same feeling. What was the incentive? What, what for you was the moment that was like, okay, I can have these conversations because your skits are so fricking funny, but so accessible. What. What caused that to happen?
- [03:57]
A
Thank you. I think. So, first of all, I've always been the class clown. I've always, like, loved, you know, that the ins. The kind of like, what really charged me is in November, we were all so upset, right. And everybody's just so angry. And by February, which is when I kind of started posting a little bit here and there on, like, tick tock, was. I was so sick of seeing just inflammatory stuff. Meaning. And I, and I follow these content creators too, right. And we were all feeling it, but I was just like, every time I'm on social media, I get angrier. Yes.
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B
And I'm already mad.
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A
I'm already mad. And I was just like, okay. So part of it was, you know what? This is where we're at. We've got to either do something productive or we're just going to sit here and crumble. So that was really the driver behind it. As I said, okay, I'm just going to start doing this. And it caught fire pretty quickly. Like you said, this little niche where people were just like, oh, I can have that conversation. That's like, sounds exactly like, you know, my conversations with family. So that was. The point is I just wanted to give people the words to use in.
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B
Those conversations and you said that, you know, you grew up in kind of this duality of these different towns that are a mix of high education, you know, medical and the small town kind of mindset. What was your immediate family like?
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A
My immediate family, so we're from Washington State originally. They're very left. I would even say there are topics where they're probably further left of me, where I'm like, I'm the one being like, let's be rational about, like, hang on, think about all. So most people are very surprised to hear that, that, you know, my immediate family is definitely left. Always has been. So it was not, you know, any situation like yours, which I love to hear about. Anyone who has been able to deconstruct that stuff. Mine has always.
- [05:59]
B
Yeah. And so growing up in that environment, so you're, you're in this space where it's a lot of, you know, a lot of free thought, a lot of education, a lot of these conversations. So how did you even like the topics that you choose and creating these conversations? How have those come up for you in real life? Like, where do the topics come from? Where are you kind of having these conversations? Because you portray it in a way that is really authentic. I mean, I can sit and watch some of these. I'm like, oh, I remember having this conversation with so and so. I would love to know kind of what your. Where those conversations started to happen for you and how you're choosing these topics.
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A
Yes. And that's always such a hard question to answer because I always say there's certain muses who I cannot reveal their identities.
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B
Right, right.
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A
So those conversations happen. That's the number one question I get asked is they're like, where do you get these conversations? I'm like, can't really tell people, which sucks. But it's also, you know, people who are from my past life, high school, college, whatever, and I' literally just see their social media posts because I think one thing that might surprise people is I didn't unfollow anyone in, you know, 2016-2020. Even now, people were posting these, you know, super offensive things and I was just like, I can mute them if I have to, but I'm not going to cut my world down and have this like echo chamber. Totally understand people who had to cut those people out. But my, you know, from the beginning I was like, I can't do that. So I think I have just always had access to things that other people aren't seeing. If I go to certain people's Social media, I'm like, whoa, that's what they're saying. This is crazy. So I think, you know, that that's the other question I get is like, how do you know all of this stuff? I'm like, because I watch it. I see, you know, what is being posted.
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B
Y. I did the same thing and I specifically go to right leaning creators often, even if they make me just want to claw my own ears off because I. You can't have these conversations and you can't teach if you don't know where they're getting their information from or the things that they're talking about. And so what I did, the only time I unfollowed people was if they were getting, like, really vitriolic towards me or like, people I know or even if there was like, you know, certain people just went off the rails with like, the racist or homophobic rants where it was really violent language. I was like. And blocked. Bye bye.
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A
Exactly.
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B
But again, everybody else who, you know, is. Is maybe posting misinformation and they don't realize it's misinformation or it's like, I need to know exactly what they're saying because then I can address it. Otherwise I'm in the dark. And it's, you know, unfortunately with social media, the way the algorithms work is we get further and further into these echo chambers and misinformation gets spread so quickly by everyone because there's no way to police it, you know, because then this, you know, social media is going to say, oh, well, it's a violation of free speech if we tell them, they can't share this. But it's also like. But this is also insane and it's making people violent. And where were you living during, like, the Black Lives Matter? Were you in Minneapolis for George Floyd and Black Lives Matter? What was. Can you talk about that experience?
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A
Oh, my gosh, yes. We had the strangest experience because my husband and I had just moved about 10 blocks away.
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B
Wow.
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A
From where he was killed. And so truly, that Memorial Day weekend is when we moved. And so we hadn't met any of our neighbors. We're in the middle of the pandemic. It's. Everything's still closed. And we had ash from the fires, you know, just falling into our lawns. And we're like, oh, my gosh, is this the apocalypse?
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B
Like, what's happening?
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A
What is happening? So we were right in the. The thick of it. We went to the protests. You know, there were all the marches here. I was beyond proud of Minneapolis I think it was just awesome to see us start a global movement. Like, you know, Minneapolis, people just really stood up and it was awesome. But I think seeing also being in the neighborhood so many of the things that people weren't talking about widely, which was like, the white nationalists who were coming in and causing trouble, and you would see them driving around in cars and like tanks. We stood out there one day and there's like 12 military tanks drive by. There's Blackhawk helicopters, you know, circling our neighborhood. And it was crazy. So truly felt like the apocalypse. But for all of that, you know, happened. I'm so proud of Minneapolis.
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B
I was too. And it was. It was really like, that was a pivotal moment, I think, as far as the progressive movement of people really waking up and paying attention. And I was. And again, talking about, like, the differences in what people left versus right are talking about, you know, the right, you know, parroting, oh, they burned Minneapolis down. And they this. And like, property was damaged, like, within this radius. And of course. But then you have this other conversation that's not being brought up is white nationalist groups were coming in to incite violence and riots and destroy property to dismantle and discredit this movement. And I always bring up to people, I'm like, have you seen Philadelphia when they win or lose a football game? They do it every year and it doesn't matter if they win or lose. So it's just this interesting kind of juxtaposition of the way the story plays out for people. And I mean, that includes Covid, but. And it's, I think, too, because of Minnesota being where it is, a lot of people don't think, you know, white nationalist groups. I'm in Tennessee. So people think KKK or they think. And they don't realize that these, these groups are everywhere and they will come in from out of state if it supports them.
- [11:55]
A
Yes, absolutely. That was, you know, people were watching and saying, and who knows, part of this is also the misinformation of neighbors posting all of this stuff. I saw a car full of white nationalists, and you're like, okay, I don't know if this is true. But then they would say they have an Indiana license plate. They have a, you know, whatever. So there was a lot of that talk of people driving in for this, which is crazy. But no, Minneapolis is very much still here. Yes, parts were burned. A lot of things happened, but we're good.
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B
And so. And as your platform has taken off locally, what's been the reaction to people that know you or kind of people that are in your immediate sphere, Whether it's neighbors, friends, family.
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A
That's a good surprise. No one or a good question. Nobody's surprised. I have always, always, always been the, like stand on my soapbox and talk about these things.
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B
Excuse me, I'd like to say something.
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A
Just real quick like, well, so nobody is surprised. I think just the speed of it all is, you know, before people could even know that I was doing this, because I wasn't, you know, I started an account separate from my private account and was kind of like, yeah, we'll see where this goes. I'm not like advertising it, you know, to my groups. And so I would get messages from people being like, the hell? You have like 200,000 followers. What's going on? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know what's happening.
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B
It's like, I just woke up one day and here we are. That's what happened to me.
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A
I was like, what people?
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B
It's so bizarre. And I love that the. Are there things that have come up, like specific topics that you really enjoy spending time on and why.
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A
Yes, that's a great question. So I talk a lot about race issues. And I think for some people, I mean, I've. I really haven't gotten that much criticism. You know, I'll get random trolls and stuff. But I've also talked, you know, a little bit about how I come from a blended family. One of my siblings is black. It's always been, you know, a topic that's super important to me. And I also grew up in areas, like I said, we moved around a lot when I was a kid. I grew up being, you know, one of like five white kids in my class. And so moving to Minnesota, the land of white people, was just like, where.
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B
Did you move from?
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A
I moved. So grew up in Washington state. Moved to Connecticut. Moved to Minnesota from Connecticut.
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B
Okay.
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A
And so, yeah, it was just interesting that people have these views and they're like, really firm in these perspectives. But you're like, you know, haven't experienced anything else. So, you know, opening up their eyes to this and opening up their eyes to the white privilege, they get mad hearing it because they're like, I don't have that privilege. And you're like, well, you haven't been able to recognize it because you haven't seen anything else. Yeah, so definitely race is like my biggest. And anything related to women's health, kids, you know, those are my passions because I have a 4 year old, so I definitely got more into it after being pregnant.
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B
And it's like, oh, this is really important that we have access to this. Like, yes. And I think that, you know, we do a disservice in the country, and some of it's. Some of it is orchestrated where they don't really give young girls the full scoop on. We don't get really told about, you know, our period and the complications that can come with that. We don't get told about pregnancy and the complications and the ramifications of that. We definitely don't get anything about menopause, perimenopause. We just don't know very much at all. Because women's research isn't funded. Yes. And so it's not until you're in close proximity, excuse me, to these stories that you really start to recognize how dangerous this rhetoric really is and why it's so important that people have control of their own medical care and, like, absolute, like, sovereignty over their own body. Because I was a exercise physiologist prior to this. I just closed my small business, but I worked with a lot of pre and postnatal women and even going through college, and I was pre med. I did all the anatomy classes and they, you know, tell you all these things. You learn a lot there. That was where I decided, you know what? I've never really been on the pregnancy wagon. I don't think I'm gonna do that. But it wasn't until working with these women that you realize, oh, like, I had clients, one of them, she's losing her hearing, they lost their teeth, lost their hair, complications, almost died, miscarriage. All of these things that they just don't have a conversation about that. No one but the person putting themselves on the line should be able to make that choice. And it's. It's really sad and unfortunate to me that so many people have bought especially the Christian nationalist rhetoric around, you know, this is the only thing that you're supposed to do as a woman. Or the Bible says, blah, blah, and the Bible is. Doesn't have a commentary on abortion at all. But it's really sad to me that that has become the rhetoric that's put so many people in danger. And like, do you have. I mean, outside of, like, being a woman, do you have, like, any other experience that you've seen or interacted with that really kind of solidified your views around women's health? And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.
- [17:11]
A
Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu. Is that guy with the binoculars watching us?
- [17:18]
B
Us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Fairy underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. Affiliates excludes.
- [17:27]
A
Massachusetts join Vanguard for a moment of meditation. Take a deep breath. Picture yourself reaching your financial goals. Feel that freedom. Visit vanguard.com investinginyou to learn more. All investing is subject to risk. That's a good question. I mean, aside from obviously motherhood being the number one so intently comes to me so intense. Definitely number one, motherhood, pregnancy, all of that completely changes you. Mostly for the better, I would say. But what immediately popped into my head when you said that is when growing up in Rochester, I've always been pro choice since I knew you know, what that meant. But I remember that even in, you know, the 2000s, that sound. That makes us sound so old, right?
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B
But whenever someone said. When someone says the 1900s, I immediately transport myself to imagine. It's like, Reginald, I'm feeling nostalgic. Would you put on some Foo Fighters? You know, like, it just makes it.
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A
Feel anyway, it's awful. Yes. So tooth. Back in the 2000s at the Mayo Clinic, they would have, you know, they would do medically necessary abortions. They only did a very small handful a year. And they were, you know, women who had stage four cancer, you know, whatever it was that they needed this. And somehow the pro life movement would find out about these. They would stand out there with their protesting signs and it just, ah, nothing enrages me more than that, because these people are coming in to have the worst day of their lives. And you're doing this right now.
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B
Like, and especially because in those situations, more often than not, like, these are women who are already mothers, who have other children who wanted this child. And there's just, there's this extenuating circumstance, you know, like stage four cancer and you can't get treatment when you're pregnant and, you know, you have people coming and it's all this vitriol, like, for me especially, unfortunately, my very first time being on the front page of a newspaper. I was 5, and it was a pro life protest and I was holding a sign, but I can't take the blame for that. I was five. But.
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A
Yeah, but you have an amazing story. I do really love your story.
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B
Thank you.
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A
Everything through Liberty University, I'm like, wow, you really.
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B
Here we are. But it's, you know, it's such a. Now that I can see it from the outside, it's such a dishonest movement because you're so pro life that you vote against SNAP benefits. You're so pro life that you're not supporting the life of the mother. Because if this was really a pro life movement, then these pro life groups would be demanding an overhaul of the adoption and foster care system, like get kids into homes with good parents. They would be demanding that there's always exceptions for the women's life and that doctors get to make that choice instead of telling doctors, well, if you do it too soon, you're going to lose your license. It's like everybody's life but the mothers. And I just saw a quote from. I don't know if you follow. Eve was framed. She's another person who's deconstructed from fundamentalist Christianity to atheism. And she made a comment about how, you know, growing up in fundamentalism, you're trained to see everything in black and white when the reality is, is that it's a rainbow of nuance. And that, like, being free from that allows you to see all the colors, which I loved, because you grow up in this black and white mentality. But then you get older and you start thinking about what pro life actually means. Cause I think that pro choice people are actually pro life because they support everyone's life in the conversation. Everyone's choice. And it's also about how do we get resources to these people who need it if a single mother has a child or things like that? Because it's even things like you have mothers coming in. It's like, what if someone is so mentally unwell that it's dangerous for her to have a child? What if someone can't feed the child? How are we saying that it's pro life if someone doesn't have the finances to be able to feed a child? And our adoption and foster care system is already overwhelmed and already so abusive. It's really frustrating.
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A
Yeah. And now we're saying. And we. We aren't going to give you any assistance to find food.
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B
Yep.
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A
I mean, it's just. It's insane.
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B
And, and what did you study? I didn't ask.
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A
I studied communications.
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B
Okay. Well, that's. She's like. And using my degree.
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A
Yes. Finally found a way.
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B
Yes, exactly right. You come out of school and now I'm doing this. And my degrees in clinical exercise science and psychology with like a pre med, pre physical therapy track. And I'm like, well, I don't. So I'm really good at reading, research. I'm very good at Reading research and dissecting medical data. And then.
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A
And that is super important today.
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B
Yes. And the theology was just a required part of that. And I had been trained, like privately by my dad in theology for 13 years. I went to all Christian nationalist schools my whole life. Like, I had a Bible course every year in school, every year. And then there was private study by my dad. And then it was church two to four times a week, depending on what phase of my life I was in. It's an adventure. It's amazing.
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A
Yes.
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B
People are like, what happened? I'm like, you know, I don't know. I still don't know. But here we are.
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A
That's what I'm saying. Your story is so much more interesting than mine. Whenever somebody. I'm like, I was left.
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B
And now I'm still left. I don't know. No, but again, I think that's why you're such a good communicator with it, because you've versus someone who's deconstructed and now they're in this new space of belief and trying to figure out where the worldview is and articulate it. You've done it your whole life. You've been able to articulate it. You've also grown up in a situation that allowed you to ask questions. So you can talk about questions, because in fundamentalism, questioning it is questioning God. So you're actually training a group of people who have never had the freedom to learn how to think this way to how to think this way, which is enormous. And what I would love to hear from you because you mentioned this earlier talking about race issues and especially white privilege, which really riles people up. That phrase is really troublesome for people. How would you break down white privilege for someone who hears that? And it makes them bristle, you know, especially if they come from a hard life. Because I usually, typically when I feel people get really upset about it, they come from an abusive childhood or their father was an alcoholic or all these different things. So I would love to hear your like Anacondale breakdown of white privilege.
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A
Yes. So I think what immediately like I think of is. And I've done a lot of videos on this and tried to do more like specific examples. And when somebody does get angry about it and tries to fight that, because I agree, it's typically people who are like, well, I worked hard.
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B
Yep.
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A
It's like, yeah, you did.
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B
Yes, you did. Yeah.
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A
You didn't have to work as hard. You know, you didn't have to do that. So I think it's it's just so fascinating. Sorry, my train of thought is getting ahead of me. If you ever seen those videos where they have like all the kids line up and they say, you know, take a step forward. If you had xyz, if you've never had to worry about having a meal in your life, if you never had to worry about, you know, X, Y, Z, it's like, I love those because they give such a good example where you can say, I had a hard upbringing and I worked hard and I did all of this. But if you do that example, you're still going to step in front of other people. Right. And you're going to say, I had a hard life. But you still had certain things that other people didn't even have access to simply because you're white. So it's a really hard to give you a non answer. It's a really hard conversation because you basically just have to ask questions and help them start to, you know, like, answer it for themselves. Yeah, I've never, you know, had anyone walk away from a conversation being like, you know what, you're right, I do have white privilege. But I think at least if you can build some doubt in their mind.
- [25:10]
B
They'Re like, oh, plant, plant a little seed. I would love. And maybe you can off the cuff this, maybe not. But you had a video where you, where you gave the comparison of land, like ownership and access from the Civil War to now between a black and a white man. Can you kind of break that down? Because that I felt was such a good example of systemic racism and generational wealth.
- [25:35]
A
Yes, thank you. Yeah, I will not be able to break the whole thing down. But essentially just going all the way back because people think, you know, well, the, like, black people have had their rights since the 60s. They could have, you know, done all of this stuff. It's like, well, first of all, no.
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B
That'S not how that works. But also, no, that's not.
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A
But I do think going all the way back, people don't realize how much generational wealth has added to theirs. Even if they say, well, I didn't inherit anything, I didn't, you know, it's like, but you didn't inherit debt. You didn't inherit, you know, again, this like, lack of privilege where you struggled to get into school, where your grandparents were couldn't. They didn't even have the opportunity to.
- [26:17]
B
Go to college or you couldn't apply for loans.
- [26:20]
A
Yes. Yeah. And so, so going all the way back to the Civil War and showing first of all how not Far that actually is in terms of generations, because I think I basically built out like six generations. Yeah. And you could probably find family trees where it's much smaller or much greater. But showing exactly how that works, that if you're, you know, great, great greats were able to even have the tiniest bit of money and they passed down land and nothing else, you're already ahead. Whereas, you know, a black person didn't have that opportunity because they couldn't own it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So.
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B
And they could. I do think that was. And then especially, I think the couple things that you hit was like, people don't realize that even black soldiers didn't have access to the GI Bill. So they go to war, they come back, they still can't access those benefits. So all their medical care, and this is still during segregated hospital. All their medical care has to be paid out of pocket. They don't get to qualify for any housing benefits. Then you add on redlining where they can't buy in entire neighborhoods because the banks won't loan the money. And so now you're. You're forced to be. Even if you can buy a home, you're forced into impoverished areas that have low home values. And I felt that that example was so great because it really. In the example you gave as far as ownership and being able to own a business or even being able to take out loans, it's not really until the 90s that now you have educational access. Right. That's pretty. Pretty square across the board. But they don't. Because you don't have the generational wealth and because the loan system is still tricky. What they're doing is taking on enormous amounts of debt in the hope that they can now get a good salary, job, buy a house in a better neighborhood and start. So let's say figuratively start in, say, 2005, being able to hand down generational wealth.
- [28:11]
A
2005. Yeah.
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B
Crazy.
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A
Yes. Yeah. So I'm really glad that that video hit, because I think it did. A lot of people were kind of like, oh, I never saw it, you know, as the visual laid out. And my gosh, it's. It's so impactful. So much more than a lot of people realize.
- [28:29]
B
And it's. And it's so simple and it's not a bunch of data. It's not super heavy. It's just these kind of basic history lessons. And I love your alter ego character that you argue with.
- [28:39]
A
Thank you.
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B
I don't know if he has a name, but he is so funny. It cracks me up. Just because it is the sum of so many people that I've met. And it's, you know, and the arguments that you see in the comments, you know, oh, yeah, it's just like, oh, I've heard this conversation before. And so as you're moving forward with all of these topics, what's your. I would. Let's start with first, like, what are your greatest concerns that you see around us as we're trying to make change, but also really angry? And then I would love to go to, like, what are your greatest hopes around those things?
- [29:11]
A
Yeah, those are great questions. Greatest fears, besides the obvious, are we going to land in fascism? My fears are, and it kind of goes into both. Right of. Of what's holding us back. Like, so much of the left, and especially I hate to be the millennial who's like, it's Gen Z, but it is a generation, but it is. Gen Z does not understand. And in some cases, I'm sure that this would be a benefit. And it's like this strength of, like, I'm not taking anything, you know, aside from 100%. It's like, but you're not going to get 100. So when people say, well, they're not doing enough, or this politician is in a hundred percent of what I like, so I'm not voting for them. You're like, but they're going in the right direction. That's the direction we want to go in.
- [30:01]
B
Yeah.
- [30:02]
A
Otherwise we're not going to move at all. So that's my biggest concern right now. And it's so interesting because I haven't, like, fully vetted this thought yet, so it's going to be a little bit of word vomit. But along with the race stuff, I think we know that black women have been on the front lines for generations, forever, forever. Of changing things. And I think it's so interesting, and I haven't done enough research to say all of this confidently, but I think a lot of it is when you're used to not having rights and you're having to chip away at things and you're just trying, you know, we're just going to get a little bit more, A little bit more, a little bit more. You understand what that looks like and the negotiation of it and just moving forward. Whereas if you haven't had to face that and you just say, I want all of it right now. I want 100% change. And the people say, well, no, we're not going to give that to you. You also have the privilege of not being affected when they say, we're not going to give you anything. And so people say, oh, well, okay, I'm not going to vote. And it's like, but other people are impacted by this.
- [31:08]
B
Like, other people are going to be that little change. Yes, yes, I agree. And I, and there's this like, it's, it's like a, it's like a purity testing that happens with progressives. And again, it's not just younger, but it seems to be more so in the younger groups where it's like we have to, and I'm not saying compromise on major issues. Right. Like we have, we have groups of people that are supporting a man who's, who's on the Epstein list, who's in the White House. I'm not saying that kind of thing. But understanding that humans are not going to be perfect, you're not going to agree with someone on every issue. They're not going to do everything you want. My thing. And I explained this to someone who was really upset about the election, didn't like how the Democrats handled Biden and Kamala, which I agree, didn't like it either. And it was, but I told him, I said, what I do is when I, when I'm choose, you know, unfortunately we're in a two party system and when I choose who I'm going to vote for, if it's a situation I don't like, I'm going to vote for who I feel the safest. Safest protesting under.
- [32:03]
A
Yeah.
- [32:04]
B
Because you are going to do something I don't like. You are going to do something that maybe feels like a betrayal of a campaign promise or whatever. I want to be able to hold you to account for it. But under what we're seeing now, I mean, we're seeing, you know, you know, preachers coming out and praying in front of, you know, ice facilities and getting shot in the head with rubber bullets. And so like the difference is vote for the person that you can protest under, understanding that they are not going to be perfect and they will disappoint you in some way. They can do a great job and they will still disappoint you. And the purity testing on the left, we lose so much of our own steam because we're too busy nitpicking each other instead of what is the big problem? What is the big problem right now? If someone is not breathing, My problem is to fix their air first before I fix their broken arm. It doesn't mean that the broken arm doesn't need to be fixed. I need to get them breathing first. I kind of think of it in the sense of medical triage. And I do think that is also a big concern of mine because it is so much, you know, every little thing, you know. Cause we even see it on our pages. You know, you'll get critiques or criticism or. I had this one, the comment that came to mind was I would get all these comments about why aren't you talking about Palestine, why aren't you talking about Israel? And I was. But I release four to five videos a day, so it. If you don't see it, you might miss it. So I ended up doing this long form video about the history of the region, but also confronting people saying, you're asking me all this. You're demanding this. You know, you're threatening to unfollow my page, which it's not an airport. You don't need to announce your departure. But none of you are asking me about what's going on in the Congo or about what's going on in Sudan, which are some of the largest humanitarian crises, like, ever. And I was like, we have to be honest about the fact I can't cover every single topic 100%. I can't. There's no way. There's 15 breaking news headlines every day. But also, if that's what you care about, use your voice. Even if you have a small platform, use your voice, do what you can. And understand that there's no human that can check all of these boxes 100% of the time. It's too much information. We can't. The most dishonest thing I could do is to pretend I'm an expert on everything.
- [34:26]
A
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B
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A
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- [35:26]
B
Right.
- [35:27]
A
No, I think there's, I think that's another big fear is that social media has created this where I think a lot of people think that their activism is messaging creators and just like shaming on it. Because I'm such the same ones, right? Where I'm like, you think you're an activist? Like, this is crazy. And I've had people do the same thing. Well, I'm unfollowing because you don't speak about Gaza. I'm like, I don't go look at my page.
- [35:52]
B
What do you mean? Yeah, like it's right there. I'm talking about it.
- [35:56]
A
I'm like, I'm not hiding it.
- [35:57]
B
Like, it's like, it's crazy. And also if the temperature of everything else I was talking about doesn't give you an indicator about where I'm at on that. But it is and it's. And that, I think is one of the dangers of social media. Besides, I think the greatest danger of social media is the polarization, because that's what it's designed to do. It's designed to keep you on the app as long as you know. And we see this with left versus right. We see it with the man versus woman conversation. We see it with all these things polarized, polarized, polarized. And because they have no legal accountability to make sure that what's coming across their platforms is the truth. But I think the second biggest problem, especially for the progressive movement, is people do think they're doing something on their phone. And I'm like, this is important. Yes, share the information. Yes, be informed. But you also need to be calling your representatives, you need to have boots on the ground, you need to be canvassing, you need to be phone banking. We have to get more active again, which I think in the last couple months, especially with a lot of the races that have been won, people are seeing the important of that, importance of that and realizing the human element is so critical. But it's so easy to get complacent and just be like, well, I called out this creator, so that's my deed for the day. You know?
- [37:14]
A
Exactly.
- [37:15]
B
I was just like, guys, guys, help us out, please, please help us. I know, but I also love too that you just strike me as someone. That shit just doesn't phase you. Because you're like, bro, really?
- [37:25]
A
No.
- [37:25]
B
You're just like, no, I don't.
- [37:27]
A
Yeah, I'm always. Yeah, I usually find humor in it. Like, I'm trying to think if there's Been. And I don't mean this as a challenge if any trolls are watching, but I don't think any. I've, like, really phased me and been like, you know, I close my phone, I close my computer and whatever. I'm on to the next thing. Okay.
- [37:44]
B
I got things to do.
- [37:46]
A
Yes. And somebody asked me, and I worded it much more eloquently on, you know, my stories the other day. But somebody said, you know, that. How do you. How do you not get phased? And I was like, they're not smarter than me. Like, if somebody. You know, if somebody comes in and I'm like, whoa. You know, I really admire them, and I think that they're so smart, and they're telling me that I'm wrong and I'm. You know, all these things, then I might look at it and say, maybe I need to check myself.
- [38:09]
B
Yeah.
- [38:09]
A
If it's somebody without a profile picture who's, you know, like, why. Why do I care what you think?
- [38:15]
B
Yep. And it's like. Or it's. Or it's God first. And a Bible verse in the profile. And then all of the following is, like, naked women.
- [38:22]
A
Yes.
- [38:23]
B
Or like, yes. Who they're following. And I'm like, oh, really? And they're, like, married with three kids, talking about marriage is sacred. And I'm like, dude, apparently not yours. Like, I don't know what to tell you.
- [38:36]
A
We have two different thoughts on what sacred means.
- [38:38]
B
Listen here, Henry, listen here. And I think some of it, too, is when you really know what you believe, and you're honest about curiosity and honest about the learning never stops. It's hard to get phased because you're not being thrown around. And also, when you encounter something, you're like, oh, I was wrong about that, or, oh, I didn't know that. It's not a shame thing. It's a. Okay, I'm gonna adapt my worldview. Cause I have more information now, and then I'm gonna move forward, you know, and with all of that, both the, like, what we're seeing on the slide to fascism, because we've. We've hit basically all of the criteria to launch that, as well as the issues within the. I'm gonna call it the progressive movement, because the establishment Democrats are just a whole different conversation, different bag of worms. I'm very angry at them. But what are. What are some of the things that you're seeing, like, either through your work or just around. They're, like, giving you a lot of hope that you're really hopeful about as far as Things moving forward.
- [39:38]
A
Yeah, I think I love answering that for people because I had put question on my story maybe last week, just saying, you know, how hopeful do you feel? Basically? Not hopeful at all, or do you feel hopeful? A lot of not hopeful. And it was a lot of people just saying, everything I'm seeing is so terrible. And I have to keep reminding people to search for the good because I'm like, there are so many good things happening. And honestly, I think you and I are in a privileged position as creators because we see a lot of that. Like, I'm getting messages all day, every day of people being, thank you so much. You know, this is what I need to hear. I, you know, people being on our side. And so I think that really helps. Whereas if you're not seeing that and you're just seeing the bad, it's easy to say, well, there's nothing, you know, happening. And all of these people believe this, you know, complete bullshit that's happening. So I think what's giving me hope is my platform growth. Seeing how many people are behind this. Seeing, you know, people recognize me in public and come up and are so lovely. And I'm like, oh, yay. Okay, good. There's so many of us.
- [40:43]
B
Yeah, there's so many of us.
- [40:45]
A
So many of us. And the way I describe it is there's always people say, nothing's happening. Right? Nothing's happening in politics, and. And the Democrats aren't doing anything. And I totally understand that. I agree with that in a lot of ways. But I also have to remind people that it's like an iceberg. We're not going to see everything that's happening. And when the ACLU and all of these other groups are suing the administration and they're working in courts every single day, and they are doing the work.
- [41:13]
B
We don't see that.
- [41:14]
A
We just see the tiny little, you know, tip. So I just have to remind people that there's so much going on that we're not seeing, and you just have to search for it.
- [41:23]
B
And I also think that there's some perspective about being able to recognize that we have, in fact, been here before. And I just did an episode, solo episode for the podcast on Malcolm X and going through his life and his experiences. Malcolm, when you study, especially his growing up years, you're like, all the stuff he said makes so much sense. But even when you read Martin Luther King and all of these, you look back at the civil rights movement. I think, in particular, we have been here before. We have, like, it's like everything from police brutality, body snatching, assassinations, all of these. We have been here before and we overcame it because people chose to consistently show up over time.
- [42:07]
A
Yes.
- [42:08]
B
And they just kept coming and kept coming and kept coming and kept coming. And that, for me, has been what's given me the most hope, is just being like, okay, we've done this before. And it's an opportunity for us as people to, like, take stock of, again, what social media is doing, reconnect as people. It's an opportunity for us to actually really learn our history. And on my end, coming from the former Christian nationalist side of things, what I am so thankful for and what my biggest silver lining is that people see this nationalist fundamentalist movement for what it really is now. There's no pretense. The hoods are off or on, depending on how you look at it. And they recognize we recognize it now for what it is. So we can finally get to the root of it and kill it and pull it out of the ground. Because what we've done in the past is we've just kind of trimmed it back. Trimmed it back, trimmed it back. And now the weeds are so overgrown, it's taking over the lawn. And that, for me, I think, is my greatest hope. Because I think I really do think people are waking up. And like, I see, because I'm in your comment section all the time too. And so sometimes I see people in there having these kind of light bulb moments of, oh, my God, I never thought about it that way. That makes so much sense. And I've had people come into my patreon or into my messages and say, hey, I'm 40 years old, I'm 50, I'm 60, I'm 70. I have been in this movement my whole life. I didn't realize what I was doing, but I'm here now. What do I do? How can I help? And I think there's a lot more solidarity than there is difference, but it just feels like a lot of difference online sometimes.
- [43:46]
A
Yes. And I think that's the other for how much I hate social media, which is hilarious considering my job. But there is a lot of good to come from making all of this super accessible. Politics used to feel so inaccessible, unless you were, you know, on a certain path and unless you were dedicating your life to, you know, being into it. Right now it's much more accessible, which there's probably good and bad with that. But what I try to do with my videos is really break it into basics. Right. It's like you don't have to have all of this knowledge. You don't have to know all of the history. You don't have to know. You can just say, I know what's wrong, I know what's right. I have a gut feeling. Right. Of how humans are supposed to be treated. And this is not good. And I think that's what gives me hope too, is people are starting to realize that and realize that, oh, I can have these conversations and it's not, you know, I don't have to be ready for a debate.
- [44:46]
B
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
I don't have to, you know, throw out all of these like, you know, facts and stuff. It's like, no, this is just wrong. I mean. Yeah, well.
- [44:54]
B
And I think one of the things that you do really well as well, and I think for those of you who are listening, who are just now starting to have these kind of conversations is your. One of your biggest weapons is asking questions. Because you'll do videos where, you know, you're again, alter ego, whether it's the neighbor, whoever it is. And all you do the whole time is ask them these really logical questions. And then he. I'm just gonna say he, our alter ego friend is put in a position where he has to defend what he's. What he's just stated or defend what he's believed, which a lot of people can't.
- [45:28]
A
Yes.
- [45:28]
B
Because they were never given the reasons. They were just told it's this, it's this, this, this and this. And you're just gonna believe that and you're gonna follow it. Don't question it because you're gonna questioning God if you do. And so a lot of people can't actually articulate the argument.
- [45:43]
A
Yes, exactly. And so yeah, I think asking questions has always been my favorite way to. And yes, sometimes mine get like a little bit jabby, a little saucy, a little. But asking the questions and leading them to their own right. Like they are going to come to the conclusion themselves. And that is so much more powerful than me yelling at them and saying, you're wrong because xyz.
- [46:08]
B
Yeah.
- [46:08]
A
You know, if they can come to that conclusion and go, oh, wait, suddenly way better position.
- [46:15]
B
And I think that's the difference between like, if you're having a conversation with someone who's really entrenched in these beliefs, questions are such a key way and the data becomes important when especially people who are deconstructing are trying to like re. Establish a worldview and trying to be like, okay, well what is the information? I've just come out of the situation where I wasn't allowed to ask questions and education was demonized. I now have to learn about these topics so that I can make an informed decision. And I think that's where the balance is. And so as a communications major and as someone who is a really good communicator, people are going home for the holidays. They're going to be interacting with family members across the board. How would you advise people on how to approach those conversations? Like, what are some very practical steps that they can apply to help them get through, like the holiday season in particular?
- [47:10]
A
Yes. And before I even start, I always remind people there is tons of nuance here. If they are going home and they're like, I cannot have a conversation with my dad because he gets super aggressive, then just avoid it. Right. Don't get in that position. But what I tell people is when I was in the corporate world, it sounds very cheesy, but the Think, Feel, do model is what we used for like presentations and I use that for pretty much everything in my life is how do you want them to think, how do you want them to feel and what do you want them to do as a result of those feelings and thoughts? And I try to tell people that because I think a lot of people think I'm doing the right thing because I yelled at them and told them that they're wrong. Yeah. Well, were you? Because you didn't change their opinion. You just made both of you angry.
- [48:00]
B
Yeah. Both of you are very mad now.
- [48:03]
A
Right? So I'm like, if you can go into a conversation and say, I'm not here to change their mind, I'm here to ask a question like, like we just talked about, if I can get the tiniest little seed of doubt, that is a win for me. And I walk away and I'm like, yes, did it. I never expect anyone to be like, I totally see your side and now I'm left leaning. Yeah, like what? But I think the think field do is really helpful because if you're say you're going, you know, it's your mom or your dad and you say, you know, I want a relationship with them very much. I, I, it hurts me that they believe this stuff, but I don't want to destroy the relationship and I love them and I want them to know that, okay, then go into the conversation differently than just yelling at them and making them feel terrible and defensive. What does somebody do?
- [48:55]
B
Right.
- [48:55]
A
And defensive because what does somebody do when they are made to feel terrible and especially when it's a attack on their personality or they perceive it that way, they dig their heels in, you know, and so I think if people can do that a little bit more. And it's really hard because a lot of these issues, of course, we're like, ah, how do you see it this way? It is insane.
- [49:14]
B
Yeah.
- [49:15]
A
But, you know, if you go in with that and you're just like, I'm just gonna nudge them. I don't need them to completely change their mind. I just need to nudge. Then. Yeah, I'm hopeful that people can have those good conversations.
- [49:28]
B
I know. And, like, and I'll reiterate too, because I just did a. I did a podcast right around Thanksgiving about these conversations and actually giving people talking points if people wanted to go into more data driven. But always, always, always, if you're talking to someone who is vitriolic, violent, aggressive, don't. Just don't. Don't put yourself in an unsafe situation with someone who has no interest in having a conversation with you. But I'd love to do a little exercise to really break this down. So let's like, and let's just imagine we're talking about, like, the LGBTQ community. So let's say someone's going to talk to their parents because they're gay and they. They really want to keep the relationship. The belief system is really harmful. How would you walk someone through mentally going through that, think, feel, do to have that conversation? What would that look like? Just so people can really, like, hear an example?
- [50:20]
A
That's a really good question.
- [50:22]
B
I'm so good at this.
- [50:23]
A
I don't have. No, it's perfect. I love these little role plays. But I think, again, it totally depends on their relationship with their parents. Let's say they have a great relationship with their parents. And this is the one huge sticking point that is just kind of like, we can't get over this. And, you know, I think I would at least want to hit on, you know, bring their parents down to will you love me? Right. So let's talk about how we love each other and does that change because I'm gay, you know, and kind of have those in a way. It's really hard to ask those questions because depending on how you ask them, the tone, the, you know, it can feel very pointed. Yeah. But if you just say these in like a. Well, I'm curious. I want to have this conversation. I know what you believe, and I just want to understand more. That should be a much better entrance than, hey, you know, I know that you believe this. And that's wrong and hurtful. And I want to tell you why. Even if. And it's really hard because I say, like, have empathy, and people think that. I mean, sympathy almost. Right. Like. Like, feel what they're feeling and be like, I agree with, you know, what they're feeling. That's not it at all. Just try to put yourself in their position of why they feel that way. And it might be because they're reading bullshit news all the time, and it might be, you know, for any other reason, and try to break that down into, I just want to be curious. I just want to hear more. And then get that into a position where you can start asking those questions. And I think, especially when you are dealing with parents who have love for you, those are hard questions to answer. And that'll, you know, create some doubt anyway.
- [52:11]
B
Yeah. Especially, you know, because if you're looking at your child, you know, regardless of your belief, that's. That is. It's a tough conversation. But it's also, I. And I think for people especially, I love the. The feel part of think, feel, do, because. And it's not about. It's not about putting yourself in their shoes or thinking that they're right. But when we recognize that so many of these beliefs and these movements are held, it could be indoctrination, it could be fear. It could be repressed, a host of things. A lot of it's fear. A lot of it's fear of losing in group status with the people they've grown up with and the people of their church. And so if you're at least aware of that fear and you're aware of, okay, a lot of this is coming from a sense of belonging and a fear of not being part of that in group anymore. It changes how you have those conversations because it's about, like, hey, just so you know, there is a community outside of this, and that if people rejected you for this belief, they really weren't your people to begin with. And I think especially for people that have church backgrounds, that's a huge fear, because you will in all likelihood lose some or all of your community if you walk away from these belief systems, which is tough. It is hard. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and say, that's not hard. I went through a period of time where I none of, like, really none of my siblings had contact with me because of the stances I was taking. And now some of those relationships are mending, but it's a reality. And as far as people, I went to High school, college, church, with totally gone again, which is fine. That's what they chose, and my door's always been open. But when we can start to understand that fear especially is such a big part of it, it's a lot easier to have those conversations with people who do actually care about you. Even if a belief system they have makes you, like, crazy and you can't understand. You can't understand how they can care about you and how. How they can be an empathetic, kind person in all these other areas of their life. But this one area, and it's really about sitting down and like, sinking your teeth into it and being willing to get really uncomfortable. Because it's going to be uncomfortable for both of you.
- [54:23]
A
Totally.
- [54:24]
B
Like, that's just. That's just how that's going to happen.
- [54:26]
A
Be ready. Be ready to hear hard things. Right. Like, you have to be ready to hear their answer either way if you're going to ask the questions. And that's hard to prepare for.
- [54:35]
B
Yeah. And so what would be like, your, I guess, your encouragement for people who are wanting to have these conversations? Afraid to have them or maybe just new at having these kind of conversations?
- [54:47]
A
Yeah, I think my encouragement is. I mean, it's worth it, right? You're going to feel a lot better if you can have this conversation if it turns out not horribly. I think people underestimate the power of setting up the conversation beforehand. And it feels so, like, cheesy. But it's like a meeting prep, right? Like, here's how I want this to go. And you can even do the think, feel, do as, like, tell them that here's what I want you to think and feel, and I want you to know that I love you and I want you to know that I'm curious and I want to know more. And I really don't want this to be a conversation where we both leave feeling horrible. Can you agree to that? Right. It's like setting the stage is so much better and telling them your intentions, what your hopes are that will give them so much more context. That's super necessary for a good conversation because otherwise, say, you just launch into it. They have no idea. Are you just trying to, you know, call me out for my bad behavior or my. Whatever it is. But I think that would be the encouragement is just decide all of that. Let them know the full picture. Communicate it all. You don't have to hide anything. Right.
- [56:01]
B
And also my second little bit of encouragement would be just start. The more you have the conversations, the better you're going to get at it. The more comfortable you're going to get at it, you're going to get better at adjusting to all the big feelings. And it's just about starting small. And sometimes starting small is simply voicing out loud. I don't agree with that. Yeah, like, sometimes that's where these start. Or in. Or again, if you have someone who is really vitriolic saying, hey, you're entitled to your beliefs, but if you speak that way around me, I'm going to leave. Because you can't. You can't put a boundary on someone else's lawn, but you can put it on yours. And sometimes that's where it starts. It's just these very simple phrases, choices, just starting to outwardly vocalize it.
- [56:41]
A
Yeah, I totally agree.
- [56:43]
B
So, and my last couple questions before we get wrapping up here, and I sent these to you. If you had three books that you recommend everyone read, what would they be?
- [56:52]
A
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- [57:22]
B
Kraft Mac and cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.
- [57:39]
A
So I laughed when you sent me this because I think people are going to be shocked that I, like, do not read books other than beach reads.
- [57:49]
B
That's totally fair.
- [57:51]
A
You said that. And I was like, I really only read books because I think it's just such a. Especially with what we do. Like, I'm just in politics all the time.
- [58:01]
B
Books are included.
- [58:03]
A
Are they really? Yeah.
- [58:04]
B
Like, what are your best fiction reads? We all need to escape. Listen, I am always reading a good fiction, like, all the time because I need my brain to have a break from this.
- [58:14]
A
Actually trying to think.
- [58:16]
B
Okay.
- [58:17]
A
Because they're all like such smutty books. So I don't even know the titles of them, but I'm trying to think what I've read that, like, isn't that quite that genre.
- [58:29]
B
Yeah. We can also do movies. We can edit this. We can edit this question.
- [58:33]
A
You can do movies? Oh, let's do movies.
- [58:35]
B
Yeah.
- [58:36]
A
What's Palm Springs?
- [58:37]
B
Oh, good one.
- [58:38]
A
You've seen Palm Springs?
- [58:39]
B
Yeah.
- [58:39]
A
Fantastic.
- [58:40]
B
Great movie.
- [58:42]
A
I'm kind of a creature of habit. So I always watch, like, the same movies over Never Been Kissed, if you need to revisit.
- [58:49]
B
I haven't seen it, actually.
- [58:52]
A
Okay. You have to.
- [58:53]
B
Yeah, I've never seen it.
- [58:55]
A
Problematic. It's one of those movies where you're watching it, you're like, oh, man, this was before Me too.
- [58:59]
B
Yeah. Like, eek, eek. I feel that way. I was watching an old, like, Sean Connery, James Bond. And I was like, ooh, very probably, like, very problematic. And I get like. Even the woman's name was, like, really offensive. I was like, oh, my God. But there was this one scene in it where she's, like, been rejecting him like, the whole time. And then he basically just tackles her and she's slapping him. And, you know, and then of course it heats up or whatever. But I was like, wow, that is not. Different time. Yeah, different time.
- [59:35]
A
There's so many of those. Because, again, I love. And especially during, like, 2020, we just, like, revisited all these, like, super old, you know, shows and movies that were just nostalgia. And we kept being like, oh, my gosh, this is awful uncomfortable. Yeah, this used to be my favorite show. And I'm trying to think. So never before, Never Been Kissed. What have I watched lately? Oh, the new Wicked. I did really love the new Wicked.
- [60:02]
B
I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it yet. So I'm going. I'm going this coming week. It's just been too busy for me to go because I love the first one.
- [60:08]
A
I went. I did like a little Sunday matinee by myself, which is my favorite. And it was fantastic.
- [60:14]
B
So I am a. I am a big go to dinner by yourself, go to movie theaters by yourself person. Like, I am such a solo. Like, people like, oh, my God. You know, don't you get. No, it's wonderful. My favorite thing is so important for you.
- [60:27]
A
Even if you don't like it, I think everyone should do it once.
- [60:30]
B
Like, you have to. And I would say even this is obviously off topic, but I think it's really good, like, because I do have a lot of people ask me, like, how did you get so confident? How did you do this? A lot of it was doing shit by myself.
- [60:41]
A
Totally.
- [60:41]
B
And you get used to being by yourself and you get used to. Sometimes people look and sometimes they don't. Most of the time they are not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are.
- [60:49]
A
Exactly.
- [60:49]
B
And my favorite thing, my favorite reset time. Cause I'm a really well trained introvert. Like, I love extroverted stuff. I love being around people. It drains the shit out of me. Like, especially one on one interactions. So I recharge being by myself. Sometimes I like to recharge around the energy without touching the energy. So my favorite thing is to take myself to a gorgeous dinner with a glass of wine by myself. I will read a book at the table. Do not care. Like, that is. Yes, that is my favorite. Reset time for me. I 10 out of 10 recommend solo.
- [61:23]
A
I saw a woman doing that at this nice restaurant last week and I was like, yes. Like, I love that.
- [61:28]
B
That is how to do it.
- [61:29]
A
Just reading a book. I was like, yes, girl. Get a delicious meal and a martini.
- [61:33]
B
Okay. It's like just living your best life. And that actually leads me to my last question that I've just recently started asking interviewers, because I love the answer to it. What does living a good life mean to you? Like, what is a good life?
- [61:48]
A
A good life to me, I think I want people to know. I want. I want, like a legacy of Anna stood up for the right things. Right. That's like the good. The good part of it, but I think it's in. And this is probably not the answer you're expecting, but I get messages from people being like, run for political office. Like, you got to run for the. And I'm like, that's not a good life to me. That's not my interest. I'm so good with the messaging behind it. I want to be able to, you know, create change and have these conversations in a way where I don't have to change myself. Right. Like, I can show up in a sweater and a bun and like, you know, just have these conversations I don't have to worry about. Yeah. Like manicuring myself in a certain way. Yep. So I think, yeah, being just authentic is so important to me. And that's probably like the good life.
- [62:47]
B
Yeah. Just being real and being able to choose myself and be myself always.
- [62:52]
A
Yeah.
- [62:53]
B
Yeah.
- [62:54]
A
And feeling good about the decisions I make and who I stand up for. And yeah, I love that.
- [62:59]
B
I think that's a perfect answer to that question. So, again, thank you so much for coming on and thank you so much for having this conversation, especially going into the holidays. I just wanted people to feel. Feel empowered, and I hope my listeners feel a lot more empowered to have these conversations. But let everyone know where they can find you, what you're working on, all the stuff and things.
- [63:18]
A
Yes, you can find me at Anna Connelly is cool on Facebook, Instagram, Tik tok everything right now. I'm really just like working on those, making videos. I've got to kind of figure out what my next thing is. But having fun over there, you can always check my content.
- [63:35]
B
It is always very fun. It's so enjoyable. Thank you. And thank you so much for seeing the need to get away from the emotional intensity. Right. Because there is a balance. And thank you for doing that. Thank you for being willing to put yourself out there this way, especially because online can be a vicious space. So I'm very appreciative of that. And yeah, and just thank you for being here and thank you for your work.
- [63:57]
A
Thank you. Thank you for having me on.
- [63:58]
B
I really appreciate it. All right, everybody go follow Anna. Have the tough conversations. You're strong enough to do it. And I'll see you next week on Flipping Tables.
- [64:13]
A
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