53. The Long Fight w/ Odessa Kelly

Summary

Flipping Tables – Episode 53

Title: The Long Fight w/ Odessa Kelly
Host: Monte Mader
Guest: Odessa Kelly (Activist, Co-founder and Executive Director of Stand Up Nashville)
Air Date: February 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply compelling episode, Monte Mader welcomes Odessa Kelly, a renowned Nashville activist and community organizer, for an honest and wide-ranging conversation on the realities of systemic injustice, activism, economic and racial equity, the history of American social programs, and the role of faith, community, and resistance during pivotal times. The episode weaves together Odessa's personal journey, practical lessons from activism, and the urgent need for sustained, collective action.

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Main Discussion Points and Highlights

Odessa’s Backstory: Community Roots and Civil Service

[03:35–08:00]

• Raised in East Nashville, once a predominantly Black, working-class neighborhood now heavily gentrified.
• Grew up in a loving, blue-collar family: “My dad was a civil servant, my mom a nurse. I knew early—blood and guts wasn’t my thing.” (Odessa, 04:17)
• Athletic standout, played basketball for Tennessee State University, then entered Nashville Parks and Rec unintentionally—thanks to her dad gifting her a job application for her 23rd birthday:
  “Opened it up. Inside of it was a job application…and scissors to cut up my credit cards. One of the best gifts a parent could ever give me.” (Odessa, 05:03)

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Structural Inequities in Nashville

[08:03–15:15]

• Gentrification, over-policing, and lack of resources for long-standing Black and working-class communities.
• East Nashville transformed from a vibrant Black neighborhood to a “Williamsburg/hipster” enclave.
• Financial literacy gaps and how natural disasters and buyouts (e.g., floods, tornados) led Black families to lose generational homes due to opportunistic investors. “Natural disasters exacerbate gentrification.” (Odessa, 11:11)
• The myth of “laziness” around social services—majority of SNAP users are working, sometimes multiple jobs, even active duty military.
  “Over 70% of SNAP users have jobs. Some of them are active duty military.” (Monte, 15:50)

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The History and Racial Reality of American Social Programs

[15:49–19:33]

• SNAP (food stamps) and the GI Bill: Social safety nets originally designed for white Americans, excluding Black Americans until the Civil Rights Act (1964). “It wasn’t because Black people needed help…That’s never been the priority of this country. It was because white people were like, ‘Hey, bro, I ain’t about to be working my ass off for you and not really have anything to show for it.’” (Odessa, 17:55)
• Demonization of welfare:
  “It really didn’t become demonized until the late 70s, early-80s, when Christianity and Republicanism kind of ended up in this marriage...” (Monte, 18:26)

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Deconstructing Mythologies: Family, Gender & Economic Security

[20:00–23:48]

• The "myth" of the single breadwinner and the realities for women, especially Black women, who were highly educated but limited to domestic work.
• Toxic nostalgia from MAGA/red-pill communities about “going back” to an era that never really existed for most Americans. “The math ain’t gonna never math.” (Odessa, 20:36)
• The deadly impact of denying women autonomy, especially during lockdown (domestic violence and suicide rates among women).

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Self-Care, Rest, and the Organizer’s Mindset

[25:14–29:00]

• Rest and boundaries as tools of sustainability for activists.
  “The secret to being a good organizer is we make time for the things we need to make time for.” (Odessa, 27:12)
• Critique of “constant hustle” culture, especially in organizing: creating space intentionally allows showing up when it matters, instead of being overbooked.

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Local Politics, Zoning, and “The Overlay” Scandal

[29:07–34:59]

• “Zoning overlays” as tools historically (and currently) used to exclude marginalized communities, or limit who can live where. “People showed up to a planning and zoning meeting—overwhelmingly Black, many had no idea this was even happening to them in their community.” (Odessa, 31:03)
• Repeated patterns of decisions imposed on communities without transparency or input, e.g., secretive Tesla tunnel project, city contracts, and development.

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Why Odessa Founded Stand Up Nashville

[38:15–47:07]

• Personal devastation after losing seven children/teens in her care to violence in two years:
  “He died in my arms… In two years, I’d experienced seven deaths. Six happened in one summer.” (Odessa, 39:23)
• Experiences of racial profiling by police, economic stagnation, and working multiple jobs while holding a master's degree yet struggling financially.
• Sparked by attending a town hall that finally put words to all her daily struggles and those of her community, leading her to co-found Stand Up Nashville:
  “I was desperate to save my own life.” (Odessa, 38:15)
• Stand Up Nashville’s focus: economic and racial justice through public policy and public goods.

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Public Wealth vs. Private Gain: The Case for Social Goods

[49:05–54:49]

• Pushback against the “mooching” narrative around social programs:
  “I'm not talking about you not contributing, and then you just take a bag of gold and run away…What I’m advocating for is that the money that you pay into the system gives you something back.” (Monte, 50:19)
• The real “welfare queens” are corporations and billionaires receiving public money and subsidies.
• Community-oriented economics: investing in education and social services benefits everyone in the long run.

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Deconstruction, Faith, and Personal Growth

[53:22–59:59]

• Unlearning inherited myths (both religious and American) is key for progress, growth, and authentic faith.
• Faith and religion can be oppressive or liberating, depending on whether they encourage growth or hide people from accountability: “So many people move to religion so they don’t have to grow.” (Odessa, 22:56)
• The Black church as a source of community and resistance, but also not immune to the pitfalls of hierarchy and business interests.

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Power, Myth, and the Loss of Communal Roots

[60:27–65:35]

• Monte’s “tinfoil hat theory”: The insatiable emptiness and hunger in ‘white culture’—for conquest, for control—may originate from being forcibly cut off from pre-Christian communal, earth-based traditions.
  “If we could find a way to connect white people back to the earth and to their community…maybe we could start to ease that hunger.” (Monte, 63:08)
• Religion, when twisted for power, undergirds both capitalism and the loss of communal fabric.
  “There is no capitalism without religion.” (Odessa, 65:35)

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Getting Active: What Does Effective Activism Look Like?

[69:21–83:38]

Odessa’s Practical Guide to Activism

• Find an organization already doing meaningful work aligned with your values.
• Don’t reinvent the wheel; organize with others, build power collectively. “The best way to organize power is to organize people and organize money.” (Odessa, 70:52)
• Start by showing up—at rallies, meetings, or events. Small first steps matter.
• Be intentional about educating yourself: replace entertainment with documentaries or books about history and justice (71:41–72:42).
• Economic disruption works: boycott corporations funding oppression, support labor and unions, leverage your consumer/activity power. “How can we economically disrupt this?...That’s what works every time.” (Odessa, 74:45 / Monte, 78:28)

On Violent Resistance and Upstanders

• No significant revolution happened without some form of force/violent pushback.
• Not everyone needs to be on the “front lines,” but consistent active resistance (voting, showing up, economic action) is essential.
  “Consistently active daily resistance is required… You only need 3.5% of the population participating in consistent peaceful resistance to turn the dial.” (Monte, 82:04)
• Importance of white allies putting their bodies on the line, using their privilege for protection in protest spaces (esp. white men).
  “We need more white people to put their bodies on the line…match aggression with aggression.” (Odessa, 82:58)

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Lessons in Solidarity, Deconstruction, and Intersectionality

[84:13–87:38]

• Acknowledge the role Black women have always played as the backbone of social movements. “Black women have done enough carrying the water.” (Monte, 84:99)
• Challenge to the Black community: Don’t aspire to the patriarchal, “white man” model—imagine/demand something better, more equitable.
• Deconstructing patriarchy/toxic masculinity is essential, even within marginalized communities.

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Building the Future: Hope, Action, and Stand Up Nashville

[89:10–100:23]

• Moments of courage and community resistance (like Minneapolis) are what it means to be American.
• True leadership is encouraging collective action (“Everyone take the day off and go to Memphis!”).
• Investing in public goods (e.g., social housing, eviction representation) benefits all.
• The importance of local organizing:
  “So much gets slid through at the local level…when there’s big crisis nationally.” (Odessa, 94:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Odessa, on accidental entry into civil service:
  “Inside [the box] was a job application…and scissors to cut up my credit cards. One of the best gifts a parent could ever give me.” ([05:03])

• On the real impact of public support programs:
  “Snap is a government service that came about because of inequity happening to white people after WWII.” ([15:55])

• On structural barriers:
  “The majority of the people we served had not one job; they had two. And city workers, teachers were still having to come to the food bank.” ([14:50–15:21])

• On gentrification:
  “Natural disasters exacerbate gentrification.” ([11:11])

• On burnout and boundaries for activists:
  “We make time for the things we need to make time for… the secret to being a good organizer is I don’t overbook myself.” ([27:12])

• On the myth of the breadwinner:
  “The math ain’t gonna never math.” ([20:36])

• On why Stand Up Nashville was created:
  “I was desperate to save my own life.” ([38:15])

• On collective action and community:
  “We should all be in Minneapolis. … We should be dropping our personal interests and just creating one big super org…that’s ‘stop this shit’…” ([73:34/74:23])

• On building a society worth inheriting:
  “The best way that we could take society is to heal ourselves… But the majority of what I've seen, religion uses to oppress, to be cruel, and to justify.” (Odessa, [55:07])

• On courage and upstanders:
  “Your courage inspires other people to act. And it's going to take all of us.” (Monte, [90:39])

• On public money:
  “A lot of our public tax dollars…just become transfers of public dollars to private wealth. And they don’t create any good for you.” (Odessa, [92:11])

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Essential Timestamps

• Odessa’s accidental start in Parks & Rec: 03:59–05:06
• The effect of gentrification/natural disasters: 10:43–11:11
• Race, SNAP, and US social programs: 15:55–17:55
• Learning disparity through basketball: 11:44–13:21
• On violence and loss in the community: 39:23–41:22
• Founding Stand Up Nashville: 46:37–49:06
• On healthy organizing and activism: 27:12–29:00
• Getting involved in activism, step by step: 70:47–72:08
• On the need for economic boycotts/disruption: 74:45–78:40
• White allies, privilege, and protest: 82:41–83:38
• Closing calls to action and Stand Up Nashville info: 90:58–100:23

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Conclusion & Calls to Action

The episode closes with a powerful reminder from both Odessa and Monte that change is built on small daily actions, collective effort, and refusing to become numb or bystanders. Listeners are encouraged to:

• Get involved locally:
  Find and support grassroots organizations doing work you believe in—don’t wait for the next national headline to act.
• Educate yourselves:
  Deconstruct inherited myths and seek out deeper knowledge—about policies, history, and your own community.
• Stand in solidarity:
  Use privilege to protect the vulnerable, elevate others, and push for lasting systemic change.
• Support organizations:
  Learn more and contribute to Stand Up Nashville at standupnashville.org, or find a similar org in your area.

“The little things matter…You can do something—even in your local town, even if it’s rural in the South…We have the opportunity to build something better for the future.” (Monte, [100:23])

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Follow:

• Odessa Kelly – Stand Up Nashville
• Socials: @StandUpNashville | @OdessaKellyTN

Support the Podcast:

• www.patreon.com/montemader for ad-free episodes and exclusives.

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Summary by Flipping Tables Podcast Summarizer.

Transcript

[A]

Odessa Kelly was born and raised right here in Nashville. She grew up on the east side, back when it was better known as out east and was a predominantly black community. Odessa is the youngest of three siblings. The product of a strong, stable, loving family, she leaned into being a standout student athlete at Stratford High, played basketball for and graduated from Tennessee State University and earned her master's degree in public service at Cumberland University. Her professional career began in Nashville's Parks and Rec Department, working on the front lines of poverty every day in an effort to bring joy, resources and a sense of worth to underserved black communities. Communities. While working at the parks, Odessa saw the ways in which the system has failed her community and failed her as a black woman, a resident of Nashville, and as a member of the working class. After nearly 14 years in civil service, Odessa had seen on a daily basis how black people, especially those living in poverty, were racially profiled by the police, how gentrification hurt residents with the deepest ties to the community, and how current leadership failed to deliver support for people who needed it the most. Knowing she could do more, she co founded Stand up Nashville in 2016 and left Parks and Rec in 2019 to become the Executive Director of Stand Up Nashville. It's an activist organization whose mission is to mobilize and empower our communities to stand up and take action. Together we will create a lasting change for the racial and economic good of all Nashvillians. I've seen her at every single activist meeting and rally I've attended every single important meeting with congressional leaders. Odessa ran for U.S. congress and garnered nationwide praise and support with a campaign platform that was centered around passing legislation that that would lessen the stress, debt and hopelessness of Tennesseans. Odessa garnered 78% of the Nashville vote and still lost due to the gerrymandered district maps in Tennessee. Odessa was recently named as one of Tennessee's one of the Tennesseans of the Year, along with the entire staff of Stand Up Nashville and Black Girls Rock 2023 Political Advocate Honoree In 2019, Odessa received the National Eleanor Roosevelt Legacy Award for her work fighting for justice for working people, housing justice and racial equity. She was also a National Courage Award recipient. Nashville's seen 2018 Activist of the Year and was awarded the Human Rights Rising Advocate Award in 2018. And here today, in the wake of everything that is happening around us, so many people waking up to what's really going on in the U.S. what we see happening in Minneapolis, many people asking, well, how do I help? How do what do I do to be an activist? How do I protest? Here to talk us through what it means to stand up today is Odessa Kelly here on Flipping Tables. Just a couple announcements before we start. As a reminder, thank you so much to all my Patreon users. If you'd like to support the show or get these episodes ad free, you can [e-mail] Monty Mater. We are also doing pop ups over there. And what a pop up is is basically I will set an announcement several days in advance, but I'm going to come on and do an exclusive hour live with Patreon supporters. We will talk about current events, issues, talk about some of the topics I cover in the Bible study and really just actually spend some time together and build some community. Also, the highway to Hell Patreon is now up and running. We had a little bit of some tech issues with Patreon, but if you are a true crime fan and you really just want a page to decompress and listen to true crime and paranormal, which is unfortunate that that's how we decompress now. But that's gonna [e-mail] highway to Hellpodcast. And again, thank you so much for your support. Thank you for taking the time to listen. And let's jump in with Ms. Odessa Kelly. Odessa, thank you for coming on Flipping Tables today. I know you came from a meeting to be here, so I appreciate you taking the time anytime.

[B]

I'm excited to be here.

[A]

So a lot of this is just gonna be. I would like to know a little bit more of your backstory. I know a lot about your activism, which we're gonna talk about, and also just helping people get more active as we make our way through a new world right now. But I'd love to know where you started. I know in your bio you grew up out east. Your dad was a civil servant. What made you decide that you were gonna go into civil service?

[B]

Oh, it was an accident.

[A]

What do you mean? It was an accident?

[B]

So my mom was a nurse. She worked at Baptist Hospital, which is now Midtown St. Thomas Ascension. I don't know, they renamed it something like that, right?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's St. Thomas Ascension.

[B]

Yeah. So I knew very early, like blood guts. That's not my thing. Right. I will pass out in a second.

[A]

No, thank you.

[B]

But I grew up in the community centers and I was a really good student athlete. Graduated second in my class in high school, went to college, played sports, got out, thought I was going to the wnba, was working to do that.

[A]

Oh, you ball bald.

[B]

I ball bald. I love that girl. My 23rd birthday rolled around, and for my birthday, my daddy gave me one of these big. You know those boxes that you see at Christmas time?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's got the bows on it. It was shiny. That's the girl that's ever been mine. I was excited. Had this big box with the bow on it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Opened it up. Inside of it was a job application.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And scissors to cut up my credit cards. One of the best gifts a parent could ever give me. And. But it was to work in Parks and Recreation. It was like, you gotta, you know, adulthood is more than this dream that you had. I'm glad you had it. But, you know.

[A]

And what does your dad do?

[B]

He's retired, but he worked in Metro, so he worked for Parks and Recreation. Is okay. Like what's the show?

[A]

Parks and Rec.

[B]

Parks and Rec. Like that, but a lot more, you know, people of color.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

City of Nashville.

[A]

Because it is Nashville. You forget that.

[B]

And a lot of city employees are the frontline employees of, you know, those are people who have, who have to meet with everyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, you know, in parks, I. It was. I could have retired doing that job. I woke up every day and I hung out with seniors in the morning. Love it. Learned how to play cutthroat spades all the way to bridge, pinochle, you know. And then in the afternoons, we ran one of the best after school programs that the city had. And it's free. Recreation and parks is a good, you know, government service that we should provide to people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I had flag football teams, basketball teams.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Lego clubs for the kids.

[A]

And how many kids were participating in the, like these after school programs?

[B]

After school I was at. I was at several community Centers over the 14 years I was in Parks and Recreation. Three main ones. I would say if I'm going to average all of them on a consistent daily basis, anywhere from 50 to 70 kids, you would see like right after school.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, and then you have older kids or, you know, your. What do you call your young adults, your 19 to 24 will come a little bit after that because they just want to hoop or something.

[A]

Right. And they just want somewhere to be, somewhere to hang out.

[B]

Yeah. But in a normal day, you might see, you know, 150, 200 people in our programs. We had, we were, we were over number. I will say that it's fine because I'm out of parks now. We would, we would have. I think we could have up to 150, you know, but we would have extra volunteers and people. And it's hard to turn people away in the hood, you know, like, you need somewhere to be. And we had a good time. I'd say we have anywhere. Easily 200 every summer.

[A]

Wow. That's incredible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Especially in, like. Cause, like, Nashville is a bigger town now, but it has one. It still has a small feel, but it was much smaller, you know, even 10, 15 years ago. And so it's really, really changed. And as you're. You grew up here. I did not. I moved here at the end of 2020. I'm from Wyoming originally, which is just. There's nobody that lives there. Everyone lives very spaced out. So I didn't grow up in community really at all, except for church. That's really the only time you interacted with other people. But growing up and especially being a black woman in the south, what were some of the things that you remember growing up and first working in parks, where you started to really notice the disparity and, like, the inequity in the neighborhoods?

[B]

I would say it was AAU basketball for me. Okay. Like, East Nashville used to be a predominantly. It was the largest black hood in Nashville, you know, for a very long time.

[A]

And for context, for people who have never been to Nashville, East Nashville is like Williamsburg now in New York. Like, very gentrified, very hipster.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know that. So it's a very different neighborhood now than when you grew up.

[B]

It's very funny, too, because people be like, oh, you live in East Nashville? It's like, no, no. I live out East. I'm an original.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, Plymouth Rock landed on me, like, you know, But I would say that it was definitely. And the reason I say it was AAU basketball is because I had both. What is the work? My parents. I would consider what the working poor, highly educated individuals. My dad went back to to school and got his college degree in his 40s.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

You know, from TSU and.

[A]

Obviously. Yeah.

[B]

My mom went to Meharry Nursing School, you know, and did those things.

[A]

Are your parents from here as well?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So my grandparents came through the. The migration because of, you know, the history of Nashville. It was a better opportunity to get jobs, getting away from lynching. My grandfather helped organize a lot of yeoman and poor farmers, black and white. A lot of people were getting hung.

[A]

So to move out and have more opportunity a little bit further out of the deep South.

[B]

Yeah. And came. And came to Nashville because there were more opportunities because Government jobs at the time offered more equity and. And protections because you would get sick time, you would get, you know, vacation leave, pensions, you know.

[A]

Yep. And there's not as much like rural area for people to sneak up on you.

[B]

Yeah. And that was the thing too, because Nashville is a blue collar city for the longest. And I think that has been the tension or struggle that I often bring up. If you hear anyone ever listen to my campaign stuff or some of the stuff that we talk about, if the issues in Nashville that we have now we talk about growth of the city or infrastructure. Yeah, that's part of that. Right. Used to be I had. My uncle was a custodian for the public school system. Even my cousins through college. Yeah.

[A]

You know, back when you could like work a normal job.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And pay for your kids to go.

[B]

To school and then got priced out, you know, of their home and be more specific. So, you know, a lot of this too is like lack of education on things. Right. You're on the fixed income. What, Right after the tornado in. In 90 was the. It was a huge tornado that came through in early 2000s, right. No, no, this was after the. The flood in 2010. Someone comes and offers you 175, 000 for your home.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The average individual doesn't know how markets work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, especially in the black community. Not just like, you know, not the monolith or anything but. But not looking at that financial education.

[A]

I think especially for I would say even like lower middle class down is typically not there. Like that's not something we're taught in school. We should be. Yeah, but we are. I mean, I started learning financial literacy like four years ago.

[B]

Yeah. So he's thinking $175,000. Yeah. I can find a home and do things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and you take those. And that's how a lot of people that exist. That's why I talk about natural disasters exacerbating. Yeah. The gentrification of communities. You know, and then we saw it happen. Even the white communities. Nations. Are you familiar? The nations was working collar white white people in Nashville and.

[A]

And it's completely unaffordable now.

[B]

And it's. They're in White House and Ridgetop and Millersville and you know. Yeah.

[A]

Quite a bit of a drive for all the blue collar workers. So you talked about that. You started noticing the disparity in AU basketball. No, it's fine. I wanted. I just want to make sure we get that.

[B]

Thank you for circling me back. I'm on it.

[A]

I got It.

[B]

But yeah, is. And I say that because everyone in my community had to. I'm. I grew up in a two family loving home. They told me respect everybody else's worldview, religions and all those things. Right. And I didn't know it was au basketball. It was literally when I was getting up there and getting really good. It was my sophomore year of high school and I met a friend who lived in Brentioc at the time. Oh yeah.

[A]

Brainiac.

[B]

You know.

[A]

So again, for people who haven't been in Nashville, this is the richer part. But like on the border of Antioch. Not as nice. Brentwood. Very nice. And there's a corner called Bren Br.

[B]

Yeah, they were. And they were on the nicer side of Brinyak.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Monty. Her walk. I'd never seen a walk in closet, but her walk in closet probably it was the size of our house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was the first time that I was like, oh shit.

[A]

Like we're, we're. Everybody's playing on different. Yes.

[B]

You can curse as much as you want.

[A]

You can curse as much as you want. I. I let F bombs drop repeatedly.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. It's like the first time you realize, oh, people like people live differently.

[B]

Yes. And then if you fast forward, I think that I was a sophomore in College when 911 happened. And so I think that my. The worldviews that I was rooted in finally came up during a coming of age type of thing. Because Even at a HBCUs everybody was very God bless America.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And everybody who don't look like us, I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah, like, you know, Habil has been here. He came in, you know, just different people and different things and just how quickly, you know, we can just get very narrow minded, you know. And then I think that that was my introduction to what? That's what. Xenophobia.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I guess. And then if you fast forward to me working in parks and recreation when I got to. I was in parks for eight and a half years before I became a manager. I became a manager in 2014. I went to Napier Community center, which is in the most impoverished neighborhood in. In Nashville. Like over 65% of community doesn't even have personal transportation. In the city where you need personal.

[A]

Transportation, you can't walk Nashville. Yeah.

[B]

You know, and the over policing of those eight blocks was insane. You know, and there's just so many beautiful people over here. And it was the first time I saw a community that I grew up in because Napier now is like the east national that I grew up in. From an adult lens and frame. And that is where I think I saw all the disparity. You know, also too, at Napier. Napier Community Center. Monty was connected. It still is connected to Napier Elementary School.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those two things together are like the hub of the community. All resources, everything comes through there, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We ran a food bank. Partner with Second Harvest Food Bank.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We give. We serve anywhere from 300 to 400 families, individuals in a week.

[A]

Wow. That's.

[B]

The majority of the people that we served had not one job. They had two jobs. And they still weren't, I would say 35 to 40% of the people that we served. Metro, Metro, Metro employees.

[A]

So city workers working one to two jobs and still can't afford to eat.

[B]

Teachers texting me like, hey, can you sit me side of the box, too.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and that's. That's just crazy because. And I mean, I know that Tennessee is not like. Tennessee is not a wealthy state. And a lot of it is because our legislators just keep making very terrible decisions and keep running it into the ground, but that you have people and it goes back to the affordability in America as a whole. There's this idea that especially gets pushed in because I grew up in white Christian nationalism and especially gets pushed. Well, anyone who's on food stamps or needs help or this are lazy. And that's just not the case.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

Over 70% of Snap users have jobs. Some of them are active duty military.

[B]

We got Snap. I'm making this in a nutshell, which you probably already know. Snap is a government service that came about because of inequity that was happening to white people after World War II.

[A]

And break this down. Just break this down for the people, because I've never broken this down on the podcast. Here we go. History lesson.

[B]

Okay, so you want me look to look at you?

[A]

You can look wherever you want to.

[B]

You cute girl. I'm gonna look at you. So after World War II, there were a lot of, you know, we're coming into modernity. Modernity is like the modern age industrialism. And, you know, mass production is becoming a thing. Right. Well, the same.

[A]

The Wonder Bread years.

[B]

The one. Thank you. The Wonderberry years. In the same way they just talked about the Nashville was a blue collar working town, the crux of America. Either way, you were a rule or you were what Even then knew what Modern, bigger, urban, urban conclaves were becoming a thing. You know, out before that, you had what, maybe New York City, Louisiana. Louisiana.

[A]

Big port towns.

[B]

Yeah. And Those. Yeah. Like Boston or New Hampshire were probably even more urbanized before Chicago and Detroit and all the Southern cities really came on the map. Right. So they carried the same cultures. Right. As far as work, you don't have to have a college education, you know, like. And also to the United States actually still had textiles. We still actually produce things. Right.

[A]

Anyway, big industry and factories and.

[B]

But whenever there is land, man, and money, corruption, oppression, capitalism takes over.

[A]

Y.

[B]

And what was happening after World War II is you had a bunch of people who are working their butts off and they are not being able to, like, have a good quality of life. Fast forward to what I was saying. The reason why we got the GI Bill, the reason why we got snap, the reason why we got a lot of these initiatives going to school for free, all those things, is not because it was like, black people need some help. No. That's never been the priority of this country.

[A]

You know, you don't have a great track record. Yeah.

[B]

That's not. You know, it was because white people were like, hey, bro, I ain't about to be out here working my ass off for you. And went and fought in this war. Abcdfg. Right. And not really have anything to show for it. So.

[A]

Well, and that's. I mean, to that point, the, like, black soldiers weren't even eligible for the GI Bill coming back from World War II. And a lot of the social services that came with the New Deal. Yep. Were Black people were not eligible.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

Until after the Civil Rights Act.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so they did. They weren't eligible across the board until 1964.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And even then, they still had to force them to desegregate hospitals. And so it really didn't become demonized until the late 70s, early 80s, when we see this kind of hybrid, like where Christianity and Republicanism kind of end up in this marriage. White Christianity. Let me specify that. Where it became, you know, Ronald Reagan and the Welfare Queen.

[B]

Absolutely. That's why I love a lot of the work that you do, because our. The canons, our worldview, the perspective and how we see things. I know you're saying this. I'm just saying so that people follow you. Yeah, yeah. That. The perspective in how we shape our ideas about the world come a lot from, you know, the canons of religion or societies that we come out of. Right.

[A]

Or even historical mythology. You know, these mythologies around, you know, even we talked about, like, you grew up in them. You're told, America is this godly nation, and it was founded as a Christian nation. And it's exceptional and awesome. And even with where the underdog, we're still going to win because we're. And you. It's all. And a lot. You look back and you learn. You're just like, oh, none of that's real. But it's a mythology that was passed on to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you don't even realize it until you're older. And same thing with religion can often be used in that way, which stinks because, like, faith can be so great. Yes. If it's. If it's used with integrity and. But it can also be weaponized and you have to unpack it as an adult. And for me, I remember like, actually learning about Jim Crow and the civil rights movement as an adult and just feeling like my entire world was a complete lie.

[B]

Yeah. I think, like what? Yeah.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And even past that, you know, I think even with the myth of like the one breadwinner in the home, we like, disregard that. My grandmother and great grandmother were highly educated women. All they could ever be was a domestic worker. They probably made sense on the dollar, you know, compared to everyone else. So, yeah, the. The math is always going to be wrong. Then you have. I hear you ever listen to the. I'm sure you do. The. The red pillars.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

And how they. What they want. Even maga. What they want to go back to. I'm like, the math ain't gonna never math.

[A]

It's not gonna work. And not worse mentioned. I'm like, every time I see that, I'm like, do these gents realize how many men used to die under suspicious circumstances? Like, like, sir, I just want to point out to you this might not be safe for you. Women know stuff about plants and they have gardens.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And just even things look at no fault divorce passes and like female suicide decreases by 17 to 21.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And it's like we can have this conversation about if you want to get married and have a traditional family and you make enough money to do that. Right. Because if you want a traditional woman, you need to be a traditional man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which means you're paying all the bills. You're paying for her hair, you're paying for her nails, you're getting her clothes, whatever it is, by all means do that. But understand, like, I just hate the. And obviously it's intended to be like rage bait and it's intended to be the pipeline. But it's so frustrating because I'm like, dude, I'm not saying that your grandparents didn't love each other. They might Have.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I didn't meet them.

[B]

But we know.

[A]

But we know. But like, also, so many women were trapped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was just. There was nothing else you could do. You couldn't get a bank account, you couldn't buy property, you couldn't have a business. There was no option. And there was very little legal recourse to get divorced because the legal standard to prove abuse and neglect is very high.

[B]

It even reared this head again during the pandemic. I think a lot of men realize we as Americans. I'll just say we as Americans, no offense, but especially white Americans, struggle with a accurate reflection of ourselves 100%. And it doesn't mean that everything that in that reflection you put upon you. The same way that the legacy of slavery impacts me, impacts you, Impact Seeger, impacts everyone. Right. You know, but with that said, I think during the pandemic, I think a lot of men realize, like, you wouldn't be here if you weren't stuck here to be with me. And what does it say about me?

[A]

Right?

[B]

And you either can be accountable and have some growth or you can have the Mr. Valley. You can, you know, commit domestic violence or become red peeled or become more narrative. And what is interesting, I just. Last thing I know you want, I got a lot of questions is I am horrified about when the choice is growth and accountability for yourself. So many people move to religion so they don't have to grow.

[A]

Yep. Especially, unfortunately, especially men. Especially when you have, like. And we use Christianity as the example just because it's the dominant religion. But any fundamentalist religion, you can, you can insert anything here. But it. Because it places men on this pedestal where men are made in the image of God, Men are under God's umbrella, and everyone else is beneath men. And men are kind of above accountability. They're supposed to be the leaders, but don't cause them to stumble. Don't let your shoulder show. Right. Like, even as children, I remember, you know, being confronted because I was wearing a summer dress. I was nine. You're gonna make a man stumble. Isn't that the adult man's fault, is he's gonna be the leader? Right. Like, and. And I think they do. And it really is. It's about avoiding accountability and then saying, well, God says, yeah, husband, submit to your wives. And I'm like, well, Paul allegedly said that because he probably didn't write Ephesians, but yeah, probably different topic.

[B]

The world's oldest CIA agent.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Don't exactly.

[A]

And my thing is, I remember because when Covid first hit, I was still living in New York City. And so I was in my apartment with my two roommates. But prior to that I had been living with somebody temporarily where it became very abusive. And I remember having that thought in 2020 thinking, oh my God, how many women can't get away? How many women can't get away? How many? And in New York. Cause New York was kind of this epicenter when it first hit. You were hearing sirens and choppers just all day. It was part of the reason I left. As I was like, I can't handle it this. But it made me wonder how many of those were domestic violence calls. And we saw in London that they had. And I'm not 100% sure on the number, but it was something like in a very short period of time, they found like 28, 29 bodies of women who had been beaten to death. And the reason, the only reason their bodies were found is because their families weren't hearing from them.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

And you see these problems when you don't have choice and you don't have freedom of movement and you don't have autonomy. It really was like this dramatic showcase of these relationships. But something, I do feel like something fractured culturally during that time because I feel like a lot of people came out with a new perspective. A lot of people changed careers or they, their relationship became better or they got divorced or they red pilled or they went. And I feel like we've never really recovered from that dead space. People went nuts.

[B]

That's very true. I went through a separation during that time and of course I, it was good for me. First of all, in this type, I'm an organizer for those who don't know.

[A]

We're gonna get to that.

[B]

Yeah, it's in the intro. Very active, very busy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I am not great at self care. I did not realize how bad at it I was until the pandemic. You know, like, oh, I'm slowing down. Yeah. And. But I'm glad I had the chance to do that because me and my partner, we have, you know, I call my family the we the black version of modern family. You know, father of our children is amazing father. He's, he's there, you know, my partner who's the biological mother of my children, of our children, you know, we, we get along. You know, we are great co parents. We support each other. You know, we all doing, we're, we're two of us are struggling as being empty nesters. Yeah. You know, because you're growing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's Tough. But with that said, you know, I think that it made me grow enough to not be petty. Right. And for her not to be petty as well and figure out how we're gonna, like, heal together.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, in. In a healthy way, you know?

[A]

And I think. I think that you can't. And you. You made a comment to me. I was planning on asking later, but it fits right here. You made a comment to me. You're like, the secret to being a good organizer is I don't overbook myself. And something along that line. And I stared at that text message because I work from the second I wake up to the second I go to sleep, and I'm like, what does she mean by that? So what. What. What has changed? Because you've. You know, you're learning rest in Covid, which I think was something valuable. It did teach us. It slowed me way down, and then I picked my speed right back up. But what have you. What did you mean by that?

[B]

Sorry. I didn't mean any offense by that either. Okay. That was a meeting. I mean, because we. For those who don't know, we've been trying to, like, get together for a minute.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And because of differences on my end, too, in schedule, you know, but you kept apologizing because you had to be somewhere or do something. Right. And I said, I can be more amenable to your schedules. You know, one of the secrets of being a good organizer is we make time for the things we need to make time for.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And when I was saying we don't overbook is in the time of social media, right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You don't see me on social media a lot anymore, because people like you on social media. And as a good organizer, I need to be in front of people. I need to be in spaces where people rely on me to be in that space. You know? And you can't do that and then try to be everywhere else that, you know.

[A]

And it wasn't offensive to me at all.

[B]

Okay. I just wanted to make sure it was so powerful.

[A]

Cause I was like. It was just this reminder for me of, like, where is your space? Because when we had that announcement here in Nashville, where essentially all of the legislators and the Nashville government found out at the same time that we're building a Tesla tunnel, like, thankfully, I've. Right. And now it's just a big hole, and nobody's working on it, but I was able to go to that meeting. But oftentimes when those things launch, I can't, because I'm Booked solid. I'm booked from 7am in the morning, and I usually work till 11 or midnight. Cause I just. My brain does that. And so it was just a really good reminder for me of am I creating space to be in moments I need to be in? And it was really powerful for me because what happens for me is I tend to not only overbook, but I start to put my value in my work where, like, my value as a person becomes tied to my ability to produce. And it was just. It was a really good reminder because you are really in Nashville, and I saw your video recently where you were speaking with leaders and saying, people are calling me asking what to do. And was that about the. The immigration announcement? Was that what that was about, or was that something else?

[B]

So this is a very, you know, this is a very local issue to Nashville. You have a, you know, a national, probably international following. But in North Nashville, which is a predominantly black neighborhood, there was an announcement that there was going to be an overlay. That's the first red flag for me. Not to say that all overlays are bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the application. Yeah, because the application of them, the intent of them and how they've been used, you know, I. I've only seen one or two maybe. Or even in case study Monty, they're like, oh, this makes sense. The rest of them, it's like, I really don't know. Especially in time. We need more housing. And a time where there's still very savvy ways to keep people of color or to keep communities very mono. The same. Because they gotta be people there. There are overlays. I've seen that. That can make it unwel. The LGBT community.

[A]

Yeah. And so when they say overlay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do they mean in theory? How is it often applied in practice?

[B]

That was the question.

[A]

Okay. It's like, what do you do? But what is an overlay? I'm not familiar with this. In a, like a neighborhood standpoint, girl.

[B]

We can Google it to get like the actual look at a neighborhood overlay, like, definition of it. But it means that it applies to a certain street or a parcel or a community. Okay, like that could mean it could be height requirements, it could be building requirements, you know, or the type of zoning. You can't.

[A]

Okay, so zoning rules placed over a base zoning district to protect or enhance specific areas character focusing on design form, sometimes use without changing fundamental. Okay, so it's literally like a zoning rule that just gets applied to an entire neighborhood.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And here's the issue. The Issue of that is, is that the way it was worded or even how it came out, especially? You have to. Whenever these things happen, you have to think about the time that we're in and what's happening, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So a lot of the reaction is people are sick and tired of, like, things happening to them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And having an impact on them and them feeling like they didn't have any voice in it or any say in it. Yeah. So this comes out on social media from people who like you. They are. They're visible. We trust them. And the words that they put out on social media happen after it came out on social media. I get a full of phone calls from people like how cousins, friends, church. I haven't been church in years, but, like, people know, you know, like my mama's church members, like, Pace Matrons people, because they just know my face to be out here around. And so Odessa should know what's going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what I. I said, I will be there to try to find out as much information as I possibly can, because I have the same information that you have. And what happened in that meeting is you had an overwhelming amount of black people show up to us planning a zoning meeting, you know, which don't happen a lot. Right. And over in the testimonies, because people can go back and watch it. And for themselves, so many people, it wasn't the fact that they said they didn't want it. They said they knew nothing about this and wanted more time and information to process this. So the furry. You know, so when I got up there, my thing was, it's like, I've heard this as well, to me, and I still believe this had. It felt like it was being snuck under the rug, you know, and had you come to, like, even the Equity alliance, you know, go to Tequila and go to, you know, who are based in North Nashville, some of us who have, like, the respect and trust of the community. We could have easily held a space and try to get as many people in there as possible, and you explain what's going on. You know, so that was the. And, you know, after that, it was easily 100, what, 70 people who spoke. It was more of that in the room. Right. The same sentiment of asking to defer it. The council person still in front of all of those individuals, said, turn to the clinic, to the commission, and said, will you just approve this anyway so I can get this in front of council? And that's the disrespect that I'm talking about. And I don't know if they meant anything malicious about that, but it's the.

[A]

Fact of, like, explain to people what's happening. Give them a choice, and what is your.

[B]

And, like, who is your priority to. And so now it's become this narrative of, like, well, we talk to the homeowners to put it out. The majority of homeowners are white. Right. And the majority of the people who live there rent. Who are African American.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's not like people need to do better, I guess, at, like, getting information, but also make the effort, you know, to let people know.

[A]

I mean, on a grand scale, though, they did this with the Tesla tunnel, too. Same Billy did it because backdoor, backdoor deal announced it. Like, legislators didn't know. The mayor didn't know. Everybody finds out in that article in the Tennessean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I went to the same meeting where people were able to voice their concern, you know, in front of that council, and they asked them, like, you know, because Nashville's on top of limestone and we have, like, a shadow, shallow water shelf. And they were like, well, have you done any, like, ecological tests or geologic. Are we talking about expense? And also the. The tunnel, like, their whole thing was, it's going to reduce traffic, but it's only for Tesla taxis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's Lane tunnel. There's no way for ems. There was all these problems, and they were like, no, we haven't done any studies. We haven't evaluated anything. We're just going to push it through. And that's exactly what they did. It is so disrespectful. And I have video of these legislators. I will not name names, but, like, just up there smirking the whole time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And because they had already given the.

[B]

Private land, and that's the company irritating to me, you know, like. And I meant that. I was like, don't think that we. For every one of you, you know, like, there are. There's more than 10,000 of us. There's 20,000 of us for every one of you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and that's why I appreciate you, too, too, because in that 20,000 of us who. Who are actually having the same experience, we got to do better job of not letting surface politics, you know, divide us on things that are actually impacting the quality of life of all of us.

[A]

Yeah. Like people's ability to live.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm actually. I want to kind of veer into, like, what you've done with activism, because I feel like a lot of us and even really, myself included, are really learning what activists like activism means and how to show up practically in our community, not just on the national scale. But before I do that, I'm going to take our first of two mid show sponsor breaks. If you don't want to hear these ads you can subscribe on [e-mail] Monty Mater for totally ad free episodes, pop ups and bonus content from me and I will see you there. This episode is brought to you by Ground News. With everything going on in the United States, it's sometimes hard to keep track of things globally. The protests in Iran, what's going on in Venezuela, and the rise of authoritarianism globally. Yesterday the Ugandan government shut down the Internet just two days before the parliamentary and presidential elections are supposed to take place. The Ugandan Communications Commission ordered Internet to be stopped, taking the step, stating it was necessary to prevent misinformation and the incitement of violence. Iran did the same thing in the wake of their protests to prevent organizing and prevent access to communications of protesters as well as information being sent out to the outside world. In Uganda, all non essential Internet traffic is now prohibited prior to the election which happens tomorrow. As of this recording in the wake of Uganda's President Yower Museveni, A81, who is seeking his seventh term after ruling the country since 1986. Stories like these are so important. It's something that until recently we hadn't really considered. What happens if your country shuts down the Internet to prevent you from accessing information or for organizing a protest or to prevent you from getting access to information you might need? What if they use it to sway or manipulate elections? And the only reason that I saw this story was because I go every day to Ground News and I look at the breaking news page and then I look at my for you page where I customize based on stories I want to follow that I don't want to get lost in the deluge of news broadcasts every day day. But the breaking news helps me find stories like this that I might have otherwise missed. It's really important that we stay informed. One of my greatest fears right now is the rise of authoritarianism and far right, especially misogynistic ideologies that are arising not just in places like the Middle east and in Africa, but also in Europe as well. And I know that being informed right now can be really overwhelming. But Ground News makes it easier to take in the information you need and be able to put the phone down and walk away and make those decisions with your life without being caught up in an algorithm. The danger of getting news from social media, as someone who talks about the news on social media, is that algorithms don't care about truth. They care about engagement. And they are not regulated. So it is really important to always have an external news source off of social media that you can fact check with that you can also use to get news without being caught into an algorithm. Doom scrolling overwhelm or not being able to verify information. And if you would like to be able to use ground news, you can subscribe to ground news for 40 off. Their vantage plan comes out to about $5 a month at ground news.com tables. Okay, and we're back. So, like, when you started Stand Up, Nashville, what was the incentive and the motivation behind that?

[B]

I was desperate to save my own life.

[A]

And can you explain that?

[B]

Yeah, I was working in Parks and Recreation.

[A]

Y.

[B]

Again, I was at Napier Community center. By the time I really got deep into starting st. Okay. I. What's the best way to tell the story? Sorry.

[A]

It's your life. You can take it wherever you want to go.

[B]

All right. So I get to the parks and I mean, I get to Napier Community center. First time being, you know, act a man. I manage my own community center. I have a staff. Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is the summer of 2014.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

First person I met going into the center is a boy named Antonio Braden. Monty. Think of like the best hustler you've ever met.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This kid is just. He had a bright light. He could sing, you know, he could sell sand to a desert.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, he would go to the store and buy like, you know, Takis. All the kids. Like, those are nasty, y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

By the way. By Takis and Gatorade, you know, and then upcharge a dollar on him. And people would buy it. Cause he was already doing doordash. I'm up charge you for this convenience. Cause I'm bringing it down here to the actual hood. So smart, you know?

[A]

So smart.

[B]

He died in my arms.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

What.

[A]

What happened.

[B]

A summer and a half later.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah. So it's. That was not the only person she.

[A]

In the community center.

[B]

In the outside of the community center, that's not the only person. In two years, I'd experience seven deaths. Six of them happened in one summer. In one summer.

[A]

Holy.

[B]

On top of that, in that same time frame. Because, y', all, we're going back to 2015.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. So in that. In that same time frame, had another kid, tall, lanky, went to one of the charter schools. At charter schools, they Got to wear a uniform. They. Their bus comes off. Most of the buses let off right in front of the community center.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hopping off the bus with everybody. Police come through just like you see in some of these ice rays today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Grabbed them and took them to the ground. All of this just busted up.

[A]

Right.

[B]

This is a 14 year old kid. Right. Kept asking, I kept hitting up the apartment, like I want to know what's going on. Yeah. And they finally sent the description of the person they looking for. It's a 30 year old, 5 foot 9, had beard. What? It's just not, you know, and there's just like, no, my bad, sorry. Any of those things. They had him in the back of the police car for almost an hour.

[A]

You know, before they like admitted they had the wrong person.

[B]

I don't even know if they admitted out of wrong person. Just let them out the car. And it was one of those things like, okay, I'm gonna get fired today because, you know, I gotta make a ruckus in the streets like a. A crazy person to make sure that everybody else in the hood come out for that to happen. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Well, because you have to like, it's like what we're seeing now where like you have to film it or you have to have witnesses.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Because otherwise it gets swept under the rug and they pretend it's not real. And we're watching, I think, think. I think a lot of white people that I know or like kind of grew up comparable to me that didn't stay in the movement are seeing in real time like what black people have been telling us is happening forever. Yeah, well like, yeah, like welcome to the party. But like we're watching, you know, like especially like Christine Ohm like propagandize and lie in real time. And you know, you see those videos where she'll be saying something and the video of what is happening is right next to her face and you're like.

[B]

Like, yeah, what are you talking about? What are you talking about?

[A]

But without those videos, you, you know, and it makes me think of the civil rights and the way that they used to, you know, brand people as terrorists and this and that. Because we didn't have the videos. We didn't have the videos. We, we had pictures that would come out sometimes, but we didn't have the videos past that.

[B]

Another thing that happened too be sometime in that before this incident because I kept thinking of this. When that incident happened, they had the gang task force. Yeah, right. And he had, we had, we got Midtown precinct and they Would have also officers come through there. And I never forget because this officer's last name was like Garcia or Rodriguez. Clearly a brown man, a Hispanic, you know, ethnicity, with like, you got any troublemakers in here? Like, I don't know what you consider troublemakers.

[A]

Like what?

[B]

I got a bunch of kids.

[A]

Like a bunch of kids.

[B]

Of course I do. Right. It's like, there's no children, you know. Yeah, so. But. And then he was like, you know, but you have any that you know, are bad and we should be trying to just profile as many of the kids as they possibly can. And it just, I remember that like turning my soul because me and him were like, I was ready to box dude. Like he, you know, like I was really ready to box him in there. And then that happens, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then Monty, all this coupled on the fact that I got a college degree. I went back to college because I was irritated that I hadn't got, you know, a promotion before the eight years it took me to actually get my promotion. Yeah, I went back and got my grad degree, got $56,000 of debt to get it for a job that I might, if, if I stayed on 20 years, I might top out at $60,000.

[A]

Oh, no, no, no.

[B]

I'm living check to check. You know, I came out of college in 2004. The, the, the, the recession happened in 2007, 2008. I went from a 40 time, a 40 hour employee to a 19 hour employee.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

You know, and I think those things coupled with the things that we even talked about, like I said that I separated. You know, we're young, but at the same time too, my, my world view on how important money is or saving changed. Right? Yeah. Whereas my partner is still 20. We're in our 20s, we young, we got kids. But at the same time, it happens at different weights, rates. Yeah. My frustration level every day is like high in the stress, so high of thinking of like, how are we gonna. And it's Nashville, the it city because of that damn show. Right. Everybody mama is moving here. So the rate of rent is going through the roof. Through the roof. Right.

[A]

There's parts of Nashville that are like comparable to renting an apartment in Brooklyn or Queens, like depending on where you are. And the salaries do not compete at all.

[B]

And Queens means It's got what, 6 million people? Yeah, you know it. Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So all of those led. I'll never forget, it was the winner of 2015. And it was a snowstorm or ice storm, it was cold. I don't do cold.

[A]

Like. Like what we're gonna get this weekend.

[B]

Yeah, but. And I don't do well and cold. I'm. I'm from the South. Like, I like heat. Right. And on also. That too. I got two kids. I got two little kids in the house. I don't know if you've ever stepped on a Lego with your raw feet.

[A]

I have. It's not pleasant. It's not pleasant, I gotta tell you.

[B]

And we've been cooped in this house for two or three days.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was an organization, noaa National Organized for Action and Hope. It's the interfaith community. And that they came into the community center. I just. I had that flyer, you know, and I was just looking at it about this big town hall that they were gonna have. Went to the town hall, and I felt like everything that they talked about in that meeting was everything that I was experiencing, whether it was community being over, police, because they had a community. A criminal justice task force, Economic equity and jobs. Right. And then talking about people having to work two jobs just to make it. Because the thing I hadn't said is I also, at this time, had been working for FedEx as my second job for 10 years.

[A]

What?

[B]

So I would. I work all day at the community center. Then I would leave, and I'd go over there, Athens Way. Right here in Metro Center. Yep. Yeah. I'd be slinging boxes. Then I became a courier. So now I'm struggling for sleep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the courier is more hours, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now I'm trying to do 30 hours on their job and 40 hours on another job just to make ends meet. So the culmination of all those things, you know, together is what pushed me. Oh. To really get involved in Noah. In the work that they were doing. 2015 is also really a turning point. Megan Barry, first openly progressive mayor, female, coming into our mayorship. Right. Pushing for that, we had. Ban the box.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Ban the boxes. When you create a more equitable way for returning citizens or people who've been in prison or incarcerated to actually have a chance to get jobs and to get, you know, back in the community. There was a. Also a local hire initiative. And the reason that was needed is because we were already talking about the cranes. Nashville is booming. Everybody's ugly sweater had cranes on it because of how the city was going, Right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But there was a lot of poverty in the city. The national unemployment rate at the time was something like 2.8. Nashville's unemployment rate was like 3.2. And you can guess. Overwhelmingly, that's black, brown, immigrant, but especially black and brown communities, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if you got all of this work happening here. There was a initiative that said that 40% of any job that was being created in construction in Nashville that had public dollars on it, and all of the jobs want to take your tax dollars to help build their project. Had to put local. Had to do local hiring, put Nashville residents to work.

[A]

Yeah, pass.

[B]

Overwhelmingly, right.

[A]

Of course, it makes sense.

[B]

That's how I learned about preemption. First time in my life I had done been a part of a thing that was bigger than me and had good implications on it. January of the next year rolls around. So that's what 2016 in the state preempts. Everything. So all of. All of those things at that point helped me and several other individuals. We had a lot of labor organizations, a lot of the community organizations as well. And we said the one thing that there's no one really in the land of talking about is the economic. The development that's happening and how they lobby and push for years and years behind the scene for things to happen. And that is causing, you know, like, Noah's got a criminal justice task force. We have people who are feeding people or doing all these drives, but the money behind it. We have got to think about a more equitable way, you know, to really enact social justice in that way. And that's how I started Stand Up, Nashville. We do social and racial justice through economic lens. Our theory of changes is that technically, in the sort of sense, because y' all can go on the website, as you should, Stand Up, Nashville, you know, is that we believe that our public resources should produce actual public goods. I feel like my dummy, my Donnie read our whole mission of statements like, I'm a run on this.

[A]

Yeah. Like, what a concept.

[B]

What a concept.

[A]

And that's like. That's one of the things. That's another thing, because I still have, like, you know, some of my family are in the process of deconstructing, like, what we grew up. My niece had her moment when I was in Chicago this last week, and I get a text from her, and she says, can I call? Sure. And she calls, and she's like, all of it's a lie, isn't it? I was like, ooh. Was like, what did you read? And she was. She's like, I'm terrified to learn real American history. She's like, I can't believe that people are buying into this. And I'm realizing that everything I've been Told growing up is a lie. And so I'm sending her books and stuff. But I feel that so many people are still. They've been so propagandized to think that communism and socialism are the same thing, that if you get any social benefit for your tax dollars, you're a mooch, which is crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's your money. Like, how did Social Security become this thing of your mooching from the government? We paid for it. It's like, if I pay for a service, I'm expecting to get the service. And that's been something I've had to emphasize with people over and over, is, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about you not contributing. And then you just, like, take a bag of gold and run away with it. What I'm advocating for is that the money that you pay into the system gives you something back.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Instead of. Instead of like, corporate. Like the welfare that we have in this country. The welfare queens. Like Elon Musk. Yes. Like billions of dollars in corporate subsidies. Money they do. They didn't pay in that they get to take from us that they then get to enhance their wealth with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's crazy. And we have enough money. I was just reading an article before we started was all the things we could pay for if, like, with the money we're funding ICE with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're talking like, like, like fix child hunger in the United States, get people educations. We could absolutely. Fund the Affordable Care act subsidies. We just cut.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

The money's there. And. But it's really hard to get. Get to convince people from an economic perspective, your money can buy you something. And I actually had a. One productive. One productive conversation with a guy about this. And he has children. His children are like 10 to 12. And he was going off about, you know, people mooching and I don't want to pay for this and this. And I'm like, let me explain to you why I want to pay for your kids to go to college. And he was like, what? I'm like, just. Just stay with me here. Just ride this with me. Right. I was like, I want my tax dollars to be able to fund your children going to school. Why? Because they get out of there, they're going to be able to get married, have kids if they want, but they're going to be able to find jobs that will pay them enough to live. They're going to support the local economy. They're going to start paying into the system.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then guess what happens. 30 years, 40 years down the road, I'm suddenly needing to go to the doctor a lot more often than I did when I was in my 30s. And guess what? Your kids filling the economy helps me go to the doctor.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And I was like, so, yeah, I do want to help your kids, and I want your kids to be happy and fulfilled and go to school. It's also because I want to be taken care of in the future too. And if we actually thought about it in the sense of community, yeah, we could. We could have these services.

[B]

Well, if we had, you know, a matriarchy or a matrilineal, which doesn't mean women in power. Matrilineal actually means that. That we prioritize children and community first, you know, just a very different way.

[A]

It's a very different system than we live in. Yes, gentlemen, patriarchy doesn't mean men. It means a hierarchical system focused on. It's usually capitalism and finance.

[B]

Tell your little cousin, though, like, welcome to. Is embrace the unlearning. And as. As a. As a openly gay black woman from the hood. Right. I sit at the. The intersection of a lot. A lot of marginalized communities. You know, I also am doing my own unlearning, you know, and that's deeper into, you know, the norms that we say, even with unsubconsciously, especially if you're coming out of a religious background, you know, and it's not. And like, my parents were like, you got to be at church every. You had to be there every Sunday, then you, like, every day of the week. You know, I didn't grow up in that type of situation or whatever. But it's just still, even as. Because it can stunt your growth, in my personal opinion, you know, like, I feel like my relationship with God has gotten stronger the further away that I've gotten from religion or religion and dogma. I respect it all.

[A]

You know, my faith is so different and so much more enriching since deconstructing, because I look back, you know, when I was checking all the boxes and I was bought into all the dogma and I was smart, so I was able to argue it, and I could back people into a corner. And I was. I was really a dick. I was such a jerk. And I had no compassion. I hated myself. I was depressed all the time. I was angry, took it out on everybody else, blaming everybody else. And when you learn to just let all that go, I tell people all the time, you shouldn't be afraid of the question. Just sit with the question. And the question may be, well, what if this isn't true? Or what if this one thing is different than what I thought it was? And that's what I challenge people with, is just I have curious tattooed on my wrist. For that reason is that. That I hope I never stop being curious.

[B]

Exact.

[A]

The same questions are not a threat. Yeah. And.

[B]

And I have to balance that. Right. Like, my mom's 83. My dad's about to be 80. I'm not questioning, you know, y. You know, I don't want to. You know, when I want to piss my mama off, I'll be like, you know, Jonah really wasn't in the belly of the well. That's as far as I'm going. I'm not trying to push, you know, like, and because they're. We have a very stern, different value set in how, you know, she is brought up in a traditional black, you know, Baptist home and society and community, and that works for her. It raised us well, and it raised us with respect and every. Like, pushing us to learn everyone else's religion.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, and if they don't have religion, it's like seeing people for people. So it ain't nothing wrong with it, but being curious and really wanting to move. You know, I am jaded now because I feel like you're talking about religion can be so enriching, but it should be enriching to self, Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The best way that we could take society is to heal ourselves.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Be more introspective. Right. But the majority of what I've seen, religion uses to oppress.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

To be cruel.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, and to justify and to justify. And I am struggling. I am struggling. I'm struggling. You know, like, as a ex athlete in college, I stopped saying thank God every time we won a game. Like, God don't give a fuck about this basketball game.

[A]

I think he's busy with other things.

[B]

You know, And I hear all the NFL players, like, first of all, I just want to thank God for this win. I'm like, can he go to Palestine? And he over here blessing you getting touchdowns.

[A]

That's. Ooh, that's a word. That's a word. And that's it for today. I'm just kidding. But it's so true. And it really is about healing self. And we talked about how religion can often be a way that people hide from growth. Right. And then that can be extreme, like some of the misogynist movements that we're really seeing rise up right now. But it can also be more subtle where people just have quips they throw at you instead of having an uncomfortable conversation or they don't want to interact with people that don't look like them or don't believe like them. I think I saw the first difference I saw in faith was actually in Christianity. So the first time that I was east of the Mississippi river ever was my junior year. My dad took my brother and I and my best friend to D.C. and took us to all the museums and all the. You know, it was great. I was like, this is when we.

[B]

When we had the Smithsonian.

[A]

Yeah, when we had the Smithsonian and, you know, and seeing the Holocaust Museum and. But the end of that trip, he took us to. I think it's 13th Street Baptist Church in Alexandria. Like, the famous. My first time in a black church, we were these four white dots in the balcony. And I watched this. I mean, I was geeked out. I was so excited because, you know, the choir comes marching down the aisles. And, you know, I remember coming out of that service and there was so much joy, and everyone was so loving and so kind. I think we got invited to, like, 14 Sunday dinners, you know, And I walk out and I'm just like one. That had never happened in a church I had ever been to. But I remember walking out being like, dad, white people's churches are boring. But it was just such a contrast of what, like, the rigid kind of fundamentalist faith that I grew up in versus the joyful, accepting, loving. You know, it was just such a different. And this is all within, you know, Baptist. I grew up Southern Baptist. This is a Baptist church. And it was such a contrast of how beautiful it can be if we, like, give people space.

[B]

And also, too, I think I 100% agree. Right. But that's not the religion. I think the more I grow and learn and because I am a student of theology. Right, right. Is how much religion extracted the humanity out of people. You know, like a lot of the Druids.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's one of the pre. You know, monotheistic religions or, you know, people who practice and were closer to the earth. They were very community, you know, and.

[A]

There was a lot of. There was a lot of equality because, like, women also held these religious positions of leadership. And there was a balance.

[B]

That's what I was about to say. Even if I've learned, you know, we don't do the Vikings of fair justice. And how. Because it's like, conquer, conquer, conquer. No, Eric. The red was an. Right. But like, a lot of the pool, even the. The concept of kings was like, what is this? Like the community closest to the river has priority because they stream water, you know, like all those different things. And religion became a construction to, like, concentrate power. And therefore, you know, and it's just the Africa, the African American church, after being stripped away from its natural, you know, tribes and customs and those things, and then introduced to a Bible, you know, that was stripped of a lot of things in it. What you saw is them mixed that with the humanity is what you got the black church, you know. So, yeah, I just wanted to say that because even as I study that, because sometimes I get frustrated. Like, my. The churches that my. The black churches that my parents grew up in is the type of church that I need today to show up in a moment like this. Yes, that's the type of church that we have now. But the churches are institutions like everyone else who felt susceptible to good business entities. And, you know, when I.

[A]

And big donors.

[B]

Yeah. As much as I. I respect academia, I still kind of feel some way when someone tells me that they're a religious authority because they got a degree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, are you.

[A]

Like, have you ever interact? Have you been on boots on the ground here? That's something I've actually been really encouraged by, is I'm seeing these different religious leaders. I think of, like, the Episcopalian church as well as the Catholic leaders. But there's an. I believe it's an Episcopalian bishop essentially told all of his priests, get your affairs in order, make sure you have your wills written, because now is the time for us to put our bodies between cruelty and its victims. And I'm also seeing, like, evangelical pastors come out swinging. And those are the people that I'm paying attention for. I'm like, that is where the church is filling the role that it's supposed to, which is always to defend the vulnerable and the oppressed. But to your point about, like, how religion kind of took our humanity and our connection out, I have, like, a tinfoil hat theory on this that I've been working on.

[B]

Let me hear you.

[A]

I'm ready to share it. I'm ready to share it with everyone. I was wrestling with the question when I really started learning history, like, American history, church history. I was like, why are white people like, like, okay, like, both the combination of, like, the recklessness, like, why people do insane things.

[B]

I'm glad you saying it, not me.

[A]

I thought, you know, I'm obsessed with mountaineering. Like, I know so much about Everest. I don't need to know for someone who's never climbed a mountain. But I. I Like, watch all these things. Why people do. I'm like, this is insane. Like, we jump out of planes for funsies. Done it. But also like colonialism and kind of it. There's this culture of insatiable hunger. And insatiable hunger likes that. Like, that comes from insatiable emptiness, like when you're trying to fill something. And one of the things, when I trace back church history, you look at my family is I descended from Vikings and Celtic people.

[B]

I was talking about your cousin.

[A]

I was like, oh, yeah, that's my homies. And not only did they have these very equitable societies where men and women, there weren't male and female tasks. You did the tasks you were capable of doing. So both men and women hunted, they fought.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If you were pregnant, you stayed in the village. But the elderly men and women and women helped take care of the village and the children and.

[B]

But Olga could swing an X.

[A]

Exactly. Well. And actually there's a very famous Viking warrior that they found who was clearly like a well decorated military person of some kind, buried with weapons and all this kind of regalia. And it wasn't until several anthropologists were like, hey, guys, this is a woman. That people were like, oh, this is actually like a female warrior. And. But what I realized, when you look at the history of the church, white people lost their religions and their traditions first, and they got ripped from it and it became heresy. So you would get executed for practicing it. We see the witch trials show up, but so when you look at, you know, and I think of South America.

[B]

In particular, and witches were healers, by the way.

[A]

They were healers of midwives.

[B]

Yeah, These are new medicine. So therefore they were educated. So sorry.

[A]

And Celtic priestesses.

[B]

But a lot of.

[A]

A lot of the medicines they were using was just plant medicine. That's all they were doing. They were just using herbs. And it became. And so it gets wiped out so many. It's really hard for us to really identify what those religious practices looked like because they've been gone for so long. And you look at those practices and you can see it in Native American culture and South American and African culture that has still preserved it. All of these practices are so similar in that there's this deep communal element, there's this respect and this contact with the earth, and then there's this work with plants. And all of these ancient religions, animism, all revolve around this respect of we live in the earth. The energy of the universe is in everything. We have to honor it. We have to appreciate it we serve each other. We look out for each other. And so my tinfoil theory, which I'm hoping to find someone who is an expert historian on the history of religion or the history of those particular cultures. I was like, I wonder if white people's hunger and our desire to conquer and take is because we've been disconnected the longest and if we could find a way to connect white people back to the earth and like, back to their community and back to, like, humanity and fill that space again if we could start to ease that hunger. I'm interested to find out this is strictly a theory. It's just been something that I've thought about is I'm like, I wonder if all this harm that white culture has caused globally is in part. Obviously there's just greedy, bad people in general that will use any excuse. But if it's in part because we lost our faith and our connection and our humanity in that way, first I'd.

[B]

Be interested in hearing what that is. I have always thought and heard from people that like a lot of. A lot of imperialism and colonialism. I talk about that type of aggression came because white people come from a very small area that was cold as fuck. And so they.

[A]

Let's get out of here.

[B]

And they got. Yeah. And they got very good at warring. Right. It became very good at seafaring. And. But.

[A]

But like, I wonder if that's.

[B]

The communities was never able to evolve.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There in the way that it evolved in other places. So it ended up becoming more manipulative or malevolent in a way.

[A]

And also, to be fair to the cold regions, much more difficult to maintain food sources.

[B]

Sources. That's what. Yeah. And so. So the desperation causes or brings those things out.

[A]

Maybe it's a combination of those. Yeah.

[B]

We got crazy. We have crazy people in other parts of the world.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

100 had access and of resources and wealth of everything. So.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But it was just. It always makes me wonder if that was like something that contributed. I mean, it obviously created a way for the church to become this dominant imperial power that it became.

[B]

Yeah. Like, to me, it's always been religion.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Has been.

[A]

Versus faith and spirituality.

[B]

Because it put power, dominance and power become the things that we're working towards.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, and that has become a great avenue to, like, achieve those things. Because there is no capitalism without religion.

[A]

Yep. Well, and also, what a great way to get people to fall in line than if you can convince them that their eternal soul is in your hands.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, there is a huge like there's a fork in the road that happens between like where the early church was going and then when it became Rome's imperial religion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Huge difference. Very. Like everything changed.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Even the books that they included in the Bible were very politically motivated in a lot of ways.

[B]

That's what. So you say Paul Peter.

[A]

Yeah. It's like Paul, Paul gets a bad rap for some things he didn't actually say.

[B]

And one thing you were saying earlier too is like, I wonder how surprised people gonna are going to be when they find out that like even Russia doesn't. They're not practicing communism. It's like a, it's a odd version of capitalism.

[A]

Yep. Well, in China as well. China's not true communism either because they have, they, they have free market.

[B]

Exactly. So it's just, it's funny how we use words that are more connected to the Cold War. Yeah. And the emotional feeling that we've been told detached to them than what they actually are.

[A]

There's actually a rich tradition because we're talking about, you know, ancient traditions. There's actually a very rich like witchy tradition in Russia. Russia has an incredible history that is still like very, very widely believed and practiced in rural Russia. They have an incredible kind of, of connection with some of those ancient practices.

[B]

I believe. Because Russia was a hodgepodge. Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You had a bunch of Asian, that the mongrels. Right. You had Arab influence, so then you had Persians and then you had what rest. West Europeans, the Serbians, your Poles, Austrians.

[A]

Big hodgepodge. And then it expanded and then shrunk back down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But yeah, so that was, there was just something I've been thinking about is you know, it really, I really do think that ultimately it involves like healing the world. The only way we get back like we can escape like cruelty and kind of endless greed is healing has to happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that comes from a place of scarcity and insecurity. That's what motivates all of that. Like you can't tell me that like these ICE agents are extremely confident and happy in their day to day lives. You don't go out and brutalize people and go sleep at night. If you are whole in yourself.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

That should bother you. I mean, and as of this recording yesterday they abducted a five year old boy, Liam. Yes, baby Liam, and used him as bait to get his dad to come out. And him and his dad are both legally in the U.S. right. But it's never been about legality. That was the excuse. But now they've been taken Somewhere. We don't know where. Allegedly. Yeah. In Texas. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Allegedly. I'm sorry.

[A]

Cause like, they're like, we think we're there in Texas. You know, And I'm like, how do you participate in that? Or cheer that on? And it doesn't make you blink and it doesn't make your stomach turn. It made my stomach like, he's got that spider man backpack on and those bunny ears.

[B]

I just. Like, it'd be anybody's child.

[A]

I was just like, man. And they're so little. They don't understand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and kind of on that note, where I want to shift next is I get a lot of questions online about what do I do? Like, how do I get involved? How do I. A lot of people for the very first time are stepping into activism and protesting and they have no idea where to start. And I remind people constantly that it starts on the local level. But I would love to. I'm going to take a quick ad break here, but then I would love to segue into that. And so this is time for our second of two mid show sponsor breaks again. You can get these episodes ad free by subscribing to Patreon.com montemater so as people, what. What are some of the steps you would give to people who've maybe never been politically active or they've never been to a protest? Where do they start? Right. Because it's not going to end in Minneapolis. If.

[B]

Here's the thing. This is a special time. If you were asking me this, even in Trump's first term, Obama's term, even Biden, I think the local work that we're doing is 100% the same. And the reason is because it's not about Democrat or Republican. It is literally class warfare. And all class warfare is undergirded by racial inequity or racial discrimination of those things. Right.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But people are hoarding money at the top. You are not the 1% ICE agent, proud boy, whatever other, you're way closer.

[A]

To being homeless than you are to being a billionaire.

[B]

Yeah. You're already out in the woods with no shirts on. Like milk. Yeah, Yang, like, you know, it's ridiculous. But so the problems that we have there, we're saturated across the country right now, is capitalism and greedy corporations who are undergirding a lot of this. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what would say is about what are. I feel as though money is the. The. The root of how we really get at the crux of fixing some of these issues.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know So I would ask people to, if they wanted to get involved, just go out and find an organization that. That talks to you or feel you feel some type of semblance in a way, because we got a billion organizations out here.

[A]

There's a lot of people doing the work.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm not keeping anyone from like creating their own thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But there's power in numbers. The best way to organize power is to organize people and organize money. Right. And so with that said, like going to find other groups who are doing work in areas that you care about and then just growing from there. I think it's one of those things where you hop in.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that means if you're showing up to a rally, if the no kings, it's the first time you showed up. That's the first step.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, go to something else, be intentional. Now, this is one that I'm biased about.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If you are, you traditionally watch five hours of TV a day. Some people do.

[A]

You know, I never turned mine.

[B]

I'm not a big TV person. You know, just the holidays or something. But if you do watch TV, go to YouTube or try to find some of substance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That speaks to some of these issues. You know, that way it make curious. You say this. You have curiosity on your wrist.

[A]

Curious.

[B]

I know that hurt.

[A]

Oh, no, that one didn't. That one didn't hurt. And all of my tattoos, overall, totally fine. The top of my foot.

[B]

All right. I believe you. I'm sweating.

[A]

I had like tears sliding down my face. I was like, fine. It's fine.

[B]

She's like, are you good? Do you need break?

[A]

No, I'm fine.

[B]

I can't do it. But I would say, you know, be. Because it sparks your curiosity to ask questions and to learn. And in just early stages of learning, you're going to learn wrong and then unlearn it. Or how you say, deconstruct, you know, and reconstruct again. And I think then you have to. Can you become intentional in making time, you know, to. To show up now in today's. What is happening right now is a. What do you call it? A. We are going to be a chapter in history.

[A]

Yes. Right.

[B]

It's like the Hamilton said, what will history say about us? What will history say about us?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're in a time where. And also to. The more I learned, like James Baldwin is right. Why people have a. Have more of a privilege to be in local politics and can stay right there if they want to the rest of Their life.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Black people's politics are, are, are top down. The civil rights has been stripped out. DEI has been stripped out.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, what's happening is profiling in the streets. So we need federal, you know, there are federal protections that we need to stream down, you know, downhill, because it supersedes any other, you know, municipality, even state.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So but with that said, I think in this time, to your point, there needs to be. I. We should all be in Minneapolis.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, whatever the population of the country is right now, we should all be in Minneapolis. And I think that this is one of those times in the same way of the, the revolutionary world, the Civil War, you know, of George Floyd, where this is one of those periods where even me talking with other local organizations and activists, we are connected to comrades and people who are doing this work in the myriad of. I don't care if it's just climate, justice, change, you know, to people who just want to give new sneakers, you know, because there's a wide array of organizations out here doing the work. We should be dropping our, our personal interests and just creating one big super org. That's, you know, stop this shit. That's what it should be called.

[A]

You know, like, it's insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it really is true that, like, you know, and we were talking about this before we started recording about, like, myself after my cat surgery, going up to Minneapolis and like teams of people going in rotation to document because we have to, we. I think it starts with like, find a local organization that you believe in, that you can support, that can help help educate you, but also educate yourself.

[B]

In, in this time too. We need people can be smart. Like, don't think. How can we economically disrupt this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've been reading a lot on Palantir.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And Alex Carp, because someone told me that he was a Jewish black guy. I was like, what? And I was like, oh, when I, you know, look this up or whatever. But I don't know about Palantir right now because of how integrated it is into all the things that we do. But we do need to be intentional about, you know, Amazon.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It is so embedded in our everyday life. Right.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I know it's very hard, but how do we disrupt if you have people who support other things? You know, I, a red blooded American, I do like football, but also cringe as a, as a, as a black individual. It makes me cringe. Like, I'm still pissed about Kaepernick, right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I'm pissed about a lot of things. The misogyny that happens, all these different things. All of those owners are Trump supporting. Majority of them are like Trump supporting, you know, supporters and funding it and funding it. And it's just like, you know, like, I don't, I don't shop at Starbucks for a myriad of reasons, you know, but I support labor and local unions. Support unions. We have a lot of union unions out here who are integral part of us getting back to a place of. Similar to what it. We can. The country is baked, if you ask me, in my personal opinion and how it is going, because how is when is what got us to this point. But it doesn't mean that we don't have the opportunity to reshape it into something better.

[A]

Yeah. To something that's way better than what it was.

[B]

That's way better than what it is before. And which means that you also have to reshape yourself to not think of things around gender, around race, you know, what does social like. There is a war on us economically and socially, and we need to start seeing community, you know, along those lines instead of, you know, the traditional bullshit lines that we've drawn. So I think those are the things that we need to be looking at right now if we're going to disrupt this.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Can we stop. If can we stop paying ice? I know that we can't. Right. But we can go out in these midterms.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and we can. Anyone. That is a promise that they have to put on the table.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would hear local. Here's another thing too. You need to. You need to be able to learn civics in a deeper and much better way than you actually know it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because then you will have better expectations of our policy makers. Right.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I have been lightly saying this, and I'm boldly saying this now because we elect so many progressive politicians as well, who don't do.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

If you were not. If you are not. If, if New York can elect a Mandani with what, the fifth largest GDP in the world, New York City, then Nashville, 100 can do it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You see what I'm saying?

[A]

100.

[B]

And I am not, I do not want to vote for one more person who is not boldly saying that they're going to do everything that Madani said that they were going to do.

[A]

Yeah. I'm tired of like this, this whole thing of where we get into this thing of, of lesser of two evils all the time. It's like, no, I don't. I don't want to be there anymore. And that's not doing us any good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I absolutely agree that. I think all of this. I think that everyone who can show up should show up to places like Minneapolis and it's going to go to other cities and we, you know, we need bodies there. And I was telling you about. I have a group of friends, like white dudes that were protesting in D.C. and they're teaming up to be like, we're going to use our privilege for good. We're going to stand in front of people, and that is. That matters. But also the work strikes that are going to come are going to matter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the blackouts, the boycotts are going to matter because those things, when I. When I've studied fascism, the one thing that works a hundred percent of the time is economic disruption.

[B]

Yeah. Well, let me ask you this, too. How do you feel about, like, valid intervention? Can we talk about that? Or we got.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We can absolutely talk about it. Here's the thing is it has to happen, happen.

[B]

That's because it has to happen.

[A]

There is no rev. And I've been searching for this. There is no revolution that I have been able to find in the history of any revolution where there was not violent intervention.

[B]

It was one South African without the only one. Well, technically, yes.

[A]

Yeah. But like 50 years of violence for it to finally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Yeah. And the power construct is still.

[A]

It's still bad. It's still bad. You know, and I. It's just one of those things where, you know, and my favorite revolution is the French Revolution because they just did not play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They were not. And that's just. I think that's a reality that we have to accept. I mean, even, you know, in Minneapolis, I see the Panthers showing up with their armed and. And armed US Citizens are staying on their corners of their neighborhoods, and they have every right to do so, and that's what they should be doing. Because when you have a mass force operating completely outside of the law, completely outside of the Constitution, that's really your only option.

[B]

Well, the concept. The second paragraph of the Declaration Independence said that it's your duty not to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You do not uphold tyranny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's.

[A]

We.

[B]

It is. It literally says it in there, you know, and so I want we to. Your point is 100 agree. You know, it's scary.

[A]

Terrible.

[B]

Back to the question you were asking. How do people get into activism? I don't know how people in this age, too, to some of the things we've had in this wonderful conversation do activism without having Some semblance past themselves. The work that we, we are in an era you have to sit where you're in. The best that we can do is pave the road to saying that you were saying about how communities happen and then when you go to the doctor, your children are in a place to help take care of you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think that is where we have to. So many people have co opted movement spaces so they can climb a ladder to be a celebrity or be a diva in some type of way. Right. The visibility of it. And all of our greatest leaders died.

[A]

Like, like the real ones. Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not saying that we should be aspiring to die, but we. You do need to do this work in a way that's building for something to come past you. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because then we build better foundational work as we do it.

[A]

And when it's. And when it's for something outside of yourself, it's done with so much more integrity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And I think, and you know, I'm sure some people like feeling so overwhelmed with what's going on and you just want to bury your head in the sand. But someone put it, and I can't remember his name but he described it as. When you look at revolutions like there's very few and he, he used Nazi Germany as the example is there was very few people who were like active violent resistors like less than 3% of the population then. But then there was this large group of people that were bystanders. An overwhelming percent of the population just didn't do anything thing. And what he described it was, is he was like there also has to be a large amount of what are called upstanders. And he's like those, the upstander is the person that's, that's protesting or helping feed people or showing up to vote or pushing back or make like the people that are not. Because most of it is not going to happen in like you know, I don't think, especially now with technology it's not going to happen in like a civil war setting like we had before. It's going to be very different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And most people are not going to be in that space. But consistently active daily resistance is required. And that's what really turns the tide. You only need 3.5% of the population participating in consistent peaceful resistance to turn the dial. And so what we the biggest group of people have to be upstanders where every single day you're making decisions to resist it. The worst thing you can do is be a bystander. And then there are going to be those people that are out in the trenches.

[B]

I wouldn't. We need them. And two of being out in the trenches. I'm glad the Panthers on the scene as well.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

But at the same time, I need for white men especially.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

All of our light. I'm glad you said the Episcopalian. Which is what? Like light Catholicism.

[A]

Yep, that's right. Come on.

[B]

Come on through. You know, like.

[A]

But several Catholic churches, archdiocese are coming forward.

[B]

We need more white people to put their line, their, Their, Their bodies on the line. Right. And to be those people who are willing to like, you know, be. Match aggression with aggression.

[A]

Yeah. You know, because that's where. That's where privilege comes into play is because there is a. You know, and obviously we see that that's not, that's not always going to save you. We see that with Renee. Right. But it's also a huge protection and a buffer, especially as a white man to be in those positions. That's one of the reasons, just even with the groups that I've been working with any in Minneapolis trying to coordinate this is telling them, like, guys, like, we're the ones that have to be in the front.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We have to. Especially because, I mean, I'm really good friends with Jolly Good Ginger. I don't know if you follow.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

That man has kids, does he? He has five children and he is out there thugging it out and he's a vet. And so for me, I look at these things and especially being someone who, who feels very self aware, I feel comfortable defending myself. I'm like, I'm a single white chick with no kids. Like, if anybody's gonna be out there getting dragged across the pavement, it should be me.

[B]

Right? Say, like being out there being. And being out front because. Yeah. I think even through all of the, the, the history of the United States, I think our. We have matrician in everything that we do.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And usually people look for black people to be of service and to like sacrifice to be on the line. Right. Like, I get enough death threats and all I try to do is get people affordable housing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Get you better jobs or higher wages.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Right. And then mad at me because, you know, I like rainbow flags and shit, whatever, you know, or because I have the audacity to like, you know, feel as though I am equal to, you know, and show up in that way. So. Definitely.

[A]

Well, and I think this is the thing for me in history, again, going through like, not just this religious deconstruction but this American history deconstruction. And I appreciate the work you do so much.

[B]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[A]

I'm in a position where I'm mad, mad. I'm really angry all the time. But black women have. Have done enough carrying the water.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what, like, I've been really calling to, like, people that follow me, people that are on my Patreon, people that listen and just being like, it's. They have done enough. Like, just telling my folks, like, yo, like, when you look at all of these movements, because I've been doing a lot of diving into the civil rights movement. And of course you have these incredible faces like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, but it's. You look behind the scenes and it's black women.

[B]

It's Ella Bakers, Francis. So many.

[A]

They were the ones carrying that move movement. But even. Even that movement built on the backs of black women had to have a man's face on it.

[B]

We ain't gonna talk about the patriarchy. And. Because that's a whole nother.

[A]

That's a whole episode too.

[B]

There. There's an excellent. There's an excellent article that I think really uplifts how society. Like the gender discrepancy in society.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And people should go read it. Black or white. It says is titled Black Men are the White people of Black People. But it's to show the. You know, just like how we're all.

[A]

Show how gender and race interact.

[B]

Yeah. Even, you know, that's one of the. The things that we talk about a lot is inside of the black community, you know, is like. Especially when we talk about gender settings. Right. It's like it don't aspire to be the traditional white man. Like.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Like, what if we could do something better?

[B]

Would that be better than. Than that? Cause that's. That's. That toxic masculinity is part of the problem that we have. And one of the things that we have to dispel across races.

[A]

Well, in order to have community, we have to get rid of hierarchy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's just equity. Can't exist without getting rid of that hierarchy. And in such a real way.

[B]

And it's instilled in everyone. And women, gay, straight, you know, everybody.

[A]

Has to unpack it.

[B]

One of the best things that's happened to me too, during all of this is this friend group, just normal group of black chicks, go to work every day, hang out or whatever. You know, they've been friends for eight years. They tied themselves to healthy hoes I love these women. I absolutely love these women. And I'm so appreciative of them because even in that here I am a gay woman, and I carry a trace of toxic masculinity as well. You know, I have to check myself and how even I show up, you know, in relationships or talking to other people or it's like you can have emotions. I got emotions. It wasn't nothing like that, but I'm just giving that as an example, you know, and so it hits all of us. And so I. I love the word deconstructing, because a lot of the work that we can do and how we show up is to deconstruct some of these things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm sorry, we were talking about. Oh, I love it.

[A]

This is exactly it. This is exactly it. Because I think it really is about, like, what I'm hoping people. Way people take away from your life and your work and, like, the work ahead of us and the chapter of history we're in. Because this is going to be one that people study.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this is going to be one of those big chapters, is that it doesn't matter where you're from. You can do something.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And those. Some things matter.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Because I will say, you know, since, you know, last year, January, and we're only a year in.

[B]

It's been a long.

[A]

It's been a long year. It's been a long 10 years this year. But one of the things that. As I see people stand up and I see what's going on in Minneapolis, and I see, like, right before this, we jumped on this podcast, I was on the phone with protesters in Minneapolis as they got raided by the police. And the guy they were looking for who participated in protesting. The church goes out peacefully, meets with the arresting officer. They still tackle him to the ground, face down, and they're pointing their ars at bystanders like crazy. And it's all on video.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so we had that call right before this. But what I will say is, his name's Will. Will Kelly. As they get him up and he's cuffed and everything, he's yelling to bystanders, don't be afraid of these weak men. Remember the Constitution. He's a combat vet as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I see those things and I see people pushing back. And Minneapolis is not giving ground.

[B]

Ground.

[A]

They're not giving ground. That makes me proud to be an American. I'm like, that is what being an American is, because that's what it is.

[B]

And that's the thing like, even when I ran for Congress, that's what I.

[A]

We.

[B]

You know, we need to reshape our institutions, to feel like us, to sound like us, and to behave like us. And overwhelmingly, the majority of us ain't cool with this.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But we also are not used to being. Getting off the sideline to get into this work. And to that point, if you're talking about the individual, that bridge is what we do at Stand Up Nashville. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I cannot be proud. Like, I want our. Our. Our local AG and our state. Ain't gonna happen. He's not gonna do it. But, you know, to show up in the same way that Minnesota's did, their police chief and several other police chiefs have gotten up and said, you are not welcome here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That builds an American fabric that I. That I want to be a part of.

[A]

Me, too.

[B]

When is that gonna happen here in Nashville?

[A]

Exactly. With trust. With trust. And with, like, you know, because I. I see the defiance, and I see the refusal to bow down, and I see the refusal to give ground, and I'm like, that makes me proud. Yeah. And. And also, courage is contagious.

[B]

100.

[A]

It is so contagious when you see someone who is not afraid, or maybe they are afraid, and they do it anyway. That. And that's what inspires people. So if. You know, again, for those of you that are listening, if you're just like, I don't know what to do, just start. Just start somewhere. Start learning something. Contact a local group. But also, for those of you that have maybe been like, I need to go to more protests or, I want to go to Minneapolis or I want to do this. Understand that your courage inspires other people to act.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And it's going to take all of us.

[B]

What. What would it look like if the leadership of this city was like, everybody take day off and go to Memphis.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

And let's get these data centers up out of our state.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We'll never hear stuff like that, though. You know? And that is the type of leadership that I'm looking for. Right. And those are type of like, can I plug Stand up now?

[A]

Yeah, plug it.

[B]

Obviously, all of you who are a organization to join. Which camera I'm looking at. Which one? All right, come. Go. Go to Go Social media. Go to Stand Up Nashville. Follow us on our page. You know, we put a lot of good information out about the local things. Your municipal budget. Sometimes you're wondering why we don't have more heat in schools or something like that. Was it in your municipal budget? All the things that could give you a. A quick quality of life in impact or boost those happen in your. In your budget things. Right. We look at policy, we look at public lands. We look at all the levers that should create public goods in a good way. And that is a good way to get involved. Right. Because there are specialized things that we get into. There are people who are doing activism for the youth or activism toward a specific thing. Right. We are saying we want to make sure that our public resources actually create public goods. Goods.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that is highly important because the majority. A lot of our public tax dollars that you go to every day and work for, they just become transfers of public dollars to private wealth.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And they don't commit. Create any good for you. So follow us at Stand Up Nashville. Come to our monthly meetings. We do a lot of education so you know how to hold your elected elite, elected officials more accountable for the things that should be happening. And that is how we start to build that greater fabric of America that we're talking about.

[A]

Yep. And you don't have to. You don't have to if you're just. If you have things you care about, whatever the issue is, find somebody who's already steering a boat and jump into their boat.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. With all the housing unhousing that is happening right now. The biggest. The biggest. There are two things that we're fighting for this year. Simple for in the budget, right. Social housing, which means that the city owns it can keep housing affordable permanently.

[A]

Y.

[B]

They can build it just as nice as a luxury apartment that you paying $3,200 for for. Right. Which would also bring the price down because there's a competitive competitor. Right. I feel like that is the moral obligation of the city. The other thing that we're fighting for right now is for the. The right to eviction. And what that mean is that's. It's a crazy name, but that means that there is funding for people who might become. Get evicted to have right to counsel. Yeah. Eviction rights to counsel. If you ever see ertc, Eviction rights to counsel Council, every dollar that we invest in people having good representation in eviction court saves us three or four more dollars. On the other end of social, like social services and all the other things.

[A]

You save money in the long run.

[B]

Save money in the long run. Those are simple ways that we can improve the money that your public tax dollars go toward to build a better fabric for everyone. So check us out. It's Stand Up Nashville. If you want to follow me, me Follow Stand Up Nashville. I, I, I appreciate people like Monty and people like. What's your name? The jolly Ginger.

[A]

Jolly good Ginger.

[B]

Got five kids out here doing this work, you know. And so many of our great creators who are putting out substantive content follow them for those things. Because I will talk to money and money can like and I'll blast it. You can blast it to the ether. You know I have my own page of Jessica Kelly TN I put it's random on there right now. But if you want to file good sustenance of work of what we're doing or what I'm doing doing. Come to Stand Up National. Our team is amazing. It's excellent. And we are doing the lowdown gritty work of making sure that because this is another thing that happens Monty. In times like this where there's big crisis happening on a national level, so.

[A]

Much gets slid through. On the local level.

[B]

On the local level in the state. Ain't nothing we could do about nothing at the state. You know and shout out to like Turk. The Equity Alliance. So many other groups were at the state level fighting that craziness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On a day to day basis.

[A]

ACLU's getting involved and the Americans for the separ of Church and State is also getting involved.

[B]

And I see that's easy though too because the state is so egregious with the that they do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's easy to know what side you should be on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On the local level it's a lot different people who we help get in the office many a times. Right.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You and like how did you. They voted for the Titan stadium. And if you don't understand if you're in Nashville, the Titan Stadium. That is what I that is a perfect case study of public dollars becoming private wealth.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We doesn't help any of us.

[A]

Doesn't help any of us here.

[B]

Any of us. And it's not gonna help you get the super bowl here.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know that is not how that the logistically that happens. They already got a list for the next 20, 15 years who gonna get that Super Bowl. But anyway all that to say that is the type of what we do at Stand Up Nashville. We want to make sure that you can live in the community that you want to live in that you identify by. And that's why housing is important. There's a daycare costs entirely too much.

[A]

Too much, too much.

[B]

It's like it's ridiculous. That is keeping people trapped in two jobs. If you're trapped in two jobs, you're irritated you're probably not getting them when you get to the House. That's how, you know, it's like, it's not good.

[A]

Well, and that was something like that. I was just at the State of the Commonwealth with Governor Andy Bershear and they're trying to pass pre K for all.

[B]

Can we take him? Can we do a trade? Can we have a governor trademark?

[A]

Yes, can. Especially if Marsh is going to be the next one. Can we just switch them? I'm sorry, Kentucky.

[B]

I just, I get so irritated and I understand, like, if people be like Gavin Newsom, I'm like, you want to try?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, yeah, I got a guy for you.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, here you go. Take Billy, take him. But they're, you know, they're trying to push us through. And Republicans are pushing back on him about that. But for every dollar they spend in pre K for all. Because parents can go to work. So parents make over $9,000 more a year for at least six years after the kid starts school. They get 70,000 plus more workers in the workforce. They make $10 in the economy for every $1 they spend on pre K for all.

[B]

That's amazing. And we should be. And so smart. Why are we not doing it? And that is not. And that's not a Republican issue here. That is people who are progressive in the fact that, you know that they'll have dinner with you, they'll go to the Kendrick Lamar concert with. With you. All of their rhetoric is co opt. But when it comes to those dollars of those votes, all of a sudden they're very pro business. And that's a problem. We think of things as a. Along a partisan line. And the maturity that I've had in this is understanding. No, no, no. We got to start thinking about this. All the economic, you know, it's all economic and it's both. But like, Schumer can't talk. Yes. You know, and that, and that's the issue that I have now. This is me talking is Odessa Kelly as an individual. The things I'm about to say are not the, you know, thoughts of my 501C3. I just want to put that out there because, you know, but Democrats are part of the problem.

[A]

Oh, 100 Democrats are the reason we're here.

[B]

Yeah. Like, and the reason why I say that is, is someone who ran on a Democratic ticket. It's because it's the closest and the most liable thing if I wanted to be considered a real candidate. I don't believe in force.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't believe in capitalism. Right. We should house the unhoused and we should help people get out of debt and all those things. I think that is what if we're going to have governance. Governance and how they should function. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There should be a clear distinction between how Democrats behave when they're in leadership and then when Republicans behave when they're in leadership. And what you overwhelmingly heard is like I don't feel the difference either way.

[A]

Yep. It's pretty much the same.

[B]

And that is the reason. And that happens at the local level. It's way more saturated on the local level than it is at the federal level. And here at Stand Up Nashville. That's what we're trying to do. But we only do. We're trying to do it through the lens of your public goods because a lot of the things that public good, they are getting stolen from you and creating some BS that we don't want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's how we got the community benefits agreement out there at the fairground grounds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know like we need more housing. Everyone in the community said we want housing, we want a daycare and we want higher paying jobs. If you are going to sign this and take public dollars, you got to give that. And we got a legally binding agreement to do that.

[A]

Which is incredible.

[B]

Yeah. Which is like part of the issue that we have now too. It's gonna in a year, Monty, it's gonna be a daycare out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And now I'm seeing NASCAR might be building. Building now NASCAR is a step up from the raceway, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I got a raceway is there. It's been there. Whatever. I personally, because of racial history. I don't give a about racing. That's not my thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And majority of people I know in Nashville is not that thing. Move it to Bristol.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Move it out to Millersville where people like that. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if it's here, I just don't know how do you have a daycare which is. Should go up and it's gonna go up. And an upgrade on the. What is already considered noise.

[A]

For racing cars right by the daycare.

[B]

And I give that example. Those are the type of things that we're looking at here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At stand up natural and like how we can improve. So some of the work that we do can be. It feels heady but I guarantee you it has a much deeper impact and elastic impact on how we're able to grow that American fabric right here in Nashville. We can be a beacon of hope in a city and that's what we want to do.

[A]

I would love that. That's. That's really the best place to end right there. So for every. Thank you so much for coming. I'm glad it worked out. And everybody, I just want this to be a reminder that the little things matter, that you can do something. You can do something in your local town, even if it's a rural town in the South. There are little decisions that we can make to be upstanders and to resist and understand that we're in a moment of history. But we've won these chapters in history before, and we have an opportunity to build something better for the future. And. And again, thank you so much for being here, Odessa. And please go check out standupnashville.org even if you're not from here, to really get a sense of the information you should be looking for on a local level and find a way. Oh, you can also donate to Stand Up Nashville as well. I was like, why? Was I forgetting something? No, of course, please donate to Stand Up Nashville. But also find local organizations near where you live that you can actively get involved with. Volunteer your time. They always need volunteers. They always need organizers. So find somebody's boat that is on a cause that you believe in and jump in that ship with them. And I will see you next week on Flipping Tables.