← Flipping Tables
Loading summary
Transcript462 lines
- [00:00]
A
Following the 2008 state plea in Florida and the related federal non prosecution agreement, Jeffrey Epstein emerged as a convicted sex offender required to serve county jail sentence, register as a sex offender and complete a period of probation while retaining his substantial wealth, his freedom and social capital. Under this plea, Epstein served 13 months in Palm Beach County Jail with work release privileges that allowed him to leave the facility for 12 hours a day to work from his private office, a level of flexibility not commonly available to most people convicted of similar crimes, which are sex with a minor. The non prosecution agreement committed the U.S. attorney's office for the Southern District of Florida to end its federal investigation and forego federal charges in exchange for Epstein's state plea and other conditions. And it also contained provisions meant to facilitate civil recovery by the victims. In the United States, sex offender registration are formally standardized through state and federal law. But research has documented that enforcement can vary substantially depending on local resources, discretion, and institutional priorities. After 2008, Epine was required to register as a sex offender in multiple jurisdictions, including Florida, New York, New Mexico, and the US Virgin Islands. But he continued to move among residences in these locations and to travel internationally, sometimes with limited public scrutiny of his movements. Scholars studying supervision note that monitoring conditions tend to be most restrictive and closely enforced on low income defendants under concentrated local supervision, while individuals with substantial resources and multiple residences can more readily navigate fragmented, multi jurisdictional registration requirements. The period after 2008 also saw a marked increase in civil litigation against Epstein, but he was allowed to functionally run his businesses, his sex trafficking ring, all the way until his final arrest in 2018 and subsequent death in 2019. Today we're going to cover everything that happened with Epstein, his sex trafficking ring, his arrest, his very suspicious death, and what's going on now with the files and the lack of accountability here in the United United States. I'm Monty Mater. I'm Andy Jones and this is highway to Hell. And we're back.
- [02:15]
B
Hey, hey, hey.
- [02:16]
A
We're back. So if you actually watch these videos, you'll see we're back in the regular studio. I'm back from Minneapolis for four days for four minutes.
- [02:25]
B
And. And of course, if you're watching on video, you notice I'm not wearing black. I do own some things with colors or prints. I know it's really strange.
- [02:33]
A
It's very few.
- [02:33]
B
It's very, very few and far.
- [02:35]
A
I think you do actually have white pants too, don't you?
- [02:37]
B
Yeah, I don't think I fit into them anymore. A lot of my stuff I can't fit into I started eating food.
- [02:43]
A
It's different when we're not playing five nights a week, dude.
- [02:45]
B
I'm like. Because our show jab with a hut over here.
- [02:49]
A
For those who haven't seen a, like a show with the band Monty and the Monsters, we do all pop rock and hip hop. When we're doing a cover scene situation. We're releasing original metal coming up. But our shows are four hours long and just falls to the walls. Like, I miss the cardio. Like, man, I need to get some start doing two or three shows a week again.
- [03:07]
B
I used to be in shape, man. I was going down the driveway to get my trash can. It was a struggle. It was. It wasn't. It wasn't pretty neighbor kids looking at me.
- [03:14]
A
You have a shockingly steep driveway.
- [03:16]
B
Yes, it's pretty.
- [03:17]
A
It's a little. It's a little deadly.
- [03:18]
B
Yeah. Like, oh, you should have seen it. When the ice apocalypse hit a few weeks back. I almost died going down it. My buddy James came to get me because he had a big truck that could go through the ice. We need groceries. And I was. I about slid down. The neighbor was looking at me. I'm like, hey, good to meet you.
- [03:33]
A
Sliding down on your butt. Like sledding down your driveway.
- [03:35]
B
It was easier to. Easier to just go through the yard, which was strange. Yeah.
- [03:38]
A
But true. And again, special thanks to all the hellions who have signed up on patreon@patreon.com highway to help podcast. We've got some. Obviously you're getting all of the ad free episodes, but we're going to start adding. We're collab collaborating. We're combining the. The travel itineraries for the different episodes and making little online zines. Cool. I have a graphic designer working on that right now that you'll get those for free. If you're also someone who's like, oh, hey, I'm going to St. Louis or wherever it is. You'll be able to also purchase those from the page if you want to. And our first round of merch is coming and I'm excited.
- [04:11]
B
Can't wait for that.
- [04:12]
A
We're finishing the cheese goblin T shirt. And then.
- [04:14]
B
Yes, we've actually had a few people reach out wondering about the travel itinerary stuff.
- [04:19]
A
Okay, awesome.
- [04:20]
B
And I sent it to you. And I have to get her name, but she actually sent us a couple recommendations on Patreon.
- [04:25]
A
Yeah. Because you. The John List. John list was one of them, which I think we should do. His story is wild and it like, really gave birth to, like, the genre of the Forensic Files or the cold case TV shows.
- [04:36]
B
That's right, yes.
- [04:37]
A
Cold Case. Very cool. What was the other story?
- [04:40]
B
Gordon Northcott.
- [04:41]
A
Yeah, see that one? I don't even know.
- [04:42]
B
Oh, man. The Angelina Jolie movie Changeling is based on the story. It was like the wine coup, Wineville murders. It was in northern California, early 1900s. Really, really disturbing stuff. But that's one that I definitely think we should. Definitely should cover.
- [04:58]
A
I'm so in. So for today, we're going to jump in and we're going to do the remaining part of Epstein's infuriating story. And if you were listening on Flipping Tables and came over, welcome to highway to Hell. I posted that over there just because it's so. It's so culturally relevant right now to what's going on. So I did a little. A little bit of a cross post and a bonus episode for Flipping tables. And then we're going to get into a little bit of travel itinerary and we're back to normal sounds. We're back in this.
- [05:25]
B
Heck, yeah.
- [05:26]
A
All right, so after 20. And remember that in 2008, when Epstein was convicted, the victims were essentially cut out of the negotiation investigation plea deal. They were flat out lied to about what was going on. Even when the deal was already signed and then the NPA was already signed, the victims had been lied to that later a judge would actually rule that the victims were intentionally deceived by this. All of this to protect a pedophile. And so later, after 2008 conviction, there was a lot of civil cases, and many of those civil cases concluded in confidential settlements, of course, with Epstein paying undisclosed sums while not admitting liability beyond his criminal conviction. And I know some people are like, why would you go with a civil suit? Well, at this point, the NPA is already done. There's nothing else the victims can do but sue him. And it's. It's. It's such a minor form of accountability, but at least it's something. And at least there's a paper trail.
- [06:19]
B
Yeah, very true.
- [06:20]
A
But often it does allow for whoever is being prosecuted to avoid, like, admitting liability. God, but it does. It. It. It is something. And often one of the difficulties with any kind of sexual abuse cases, even domestic violence, rape is. They're really hard to prove in court because of the legal standard for rape. And also typically, obviously, when those things happen, it's in private.
- [06:42]
B
Yeah, very true.
- [06:43]
A
You know, people don't typically have cameras in their living room or their bedroom. And so it's really, really difficult to prove those in a court of law. Confidential settlement agreements are common in tort, what's called tort practice. But they can be particularly controversial in patterns of serial sex abuse because they restrict public access to this information about misconduct and often include non disclosure provisions. And much of Epstein's settlements all included those so that nobody had access to the convictions or. Or exactly what he was being sued for. In Epstein's situation, repeated confidential settlements allowed him to convert financial resources into legal mechanisms of silence. And at the same time, of course, he remained socially active in his elite circles. The central legal challenge to the 2008 resolution emerged through litigation under the the Crime Victims Rights act or the cv, which was brought by several of Epstein's victims identified Sudan sued anonymously as Jane Doe and, and others. And what's really shitty about this, so many of these women, their identities were kept private, which it should be that were brought this legal challenge to his case. Many of those were kept confidential until the most recent release of the Epstein files a couple weeks ago, where the Department of Justice released nude photos of these women, released their full names, but redacted the names of Epstein's co conspirators.
- [07:59]
B
What? What the.
- [08:00]
A
And I'm.
- [08:01]
B
I just have to say, I mean it's unbelievable.
- [08:03]
A
It's unbelievable. And I'm in touch now with an Epstein survivor, like directly. She, like, I have her phone number. She is now getting harassment, death threats from people because her name was released and because they perceive her as trying to bring down the administration.
- [08:19]
B
Good, good. What's wrong with that?
- [08:22]
A
Prosecute everyone. The government will crumble. Good.
- [08:24]
B
You know what? Yeah, Yeah, I kind of want to see it.
- [08:26]
A
I would love that. Like, I feel like we kind of need to burn it down and start over. But I've been in touch with her and it's been crazy. What people? How? People have been threatening her because the Department of Justice released her name. I think on purpose. They have spent so many hours on these files. There is no reason that those redactions aren't exactly where they should be. And protecting the victim, if you're actually interested in justice, would be your first priority.
- [08:51]
B
Oh, God.
- [08:52]
A
Meanwhile, we have to like appeal and like point out that they hid other people's names.
- [08:57]
B
Hey, but at least the DAO's up.
- [08:59]
A
But the Dow's up here.
- [09:00]
B
That people.
- [09:00]
A
The Dow 50,000.
- [09:02]
B
You know what? My life just improved so much.
- [09:05]
A
So much.
- [09:06]
B
Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth.
- [09:08]
A
We're just gonna shout that randomly throughout the episode.
- [09:11]
B
It'll be the new not now helicopter.
- [09:13]
A
Not now helicopter.
- [09:14]
B
I'm yelling the Dalles up from a helicopter.
- [09:16]
A
I'm just gonna start rolling down my windows and yelling out at people in the street.
- [09:20]
B
I could see that too.
- [09:22]
A
Oh my God.
- [09:23]
B
I'm gonna do that one down the road a little bit.
- [09:26]
A
Have to. The CVRA gives federal crime victims rights to reasonable protection. Notice of court proceedings, consultation with prose fair treatment. In do vs United States the plaintiffs argue that the federal prosecutors in the Southern District of Florida violated their CVA rights by negotiating and finalizing the non prosecution agreement without informing them. While suggesting that the investigation was still active, Judge Kenneth Mara of the Southern District of Florida concluded that the government had in fact violated the victim's rights by failing to notify them of the non prosecution agreement and by giving misleading assurances about the status of the case. The court found that the agreement was structured and implemented in a way that kept victims unaware and even. Even though it extended immunity to Epstein and unnamed potential co conspirators for these federal offenses. However, the decision's ultimate impact was limited because the 11th Circuit Court later held in Rewild that the CV does not apply before federal charges are formally filed and it vacated the district court's ruling. So the CVR litigation proceeded through extensive public record and through the internal handling of the Epstein investigation. Through court filings and later the OPR record, previously confidential emails, memoranda and notes surfaced detailing conversations with the U.S. attorney's office and between prosecutors and defense. These documents clarified how the NPA agreement evolved, including the addition of a clause extending non prosecution to any potential co conspirators. A provision that OPR later criticized having been inserted without sufficient consideration of its possible effects. Yeah, like letting a bunch of rampant pedophiles off would be like an effect I would, I would think about as a prosecutor.
- [11:05]
B
Yeah, imagine that.
- [11:06]
A
It's, it's just, I mean again, like we talked about this all of last week is that he got away with so much and even with this conviction they changed the wording of it. Right. To make it prostitution. As if the minor is somehow culpable. They don't really include minor language outside of where they absolutely have to. So it makes it sound like he
- [11:25]
B
just solicited a prostitute, a 14 year old woman.
- [11:27]
A
Right.
- [11:28]
B
What?
- [11:28]
A
And I think, I think the girl that he was convicted on, I want to say she was 17, I'm not sure, I have to double check that. But like there were well known like 14 year olds in and out of the house and a 14 year old was also brought as far to that case, like it's just the whole thing
- [11:42]
B
that I'm just hung up on though is just the term 14 year old woman or like oh she, she's a woman. It's like I was not a 15 year old man.
- [11:51]
A
Right. And like, like, like, you know, context for like a 15 year old has to raise their hand and ask to go to the bathroom in class.
- [11:57]
B
Yeah.
- [11:58]
A
Like let's be so for real right now.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah.
- [12:01]
A
So let's talk about how this all came out because this really wasn't outside of local jurisdiction. Local news this did not become major news until 2018. Public attention intensified after the Miami Herald published Julie K. Brown's series Perversion of Justice. Julie K. Brown is the reason the Epstein case broke. Thank God we have any access to the files. She is the hero here. Brown's reporting drew on thousands of pages of police reports, court records and other documents as well as interviews with numerous women who said they had been abused by Epstein as minors. The series laid out the scope of the alleged abuse, identified problems in the original investigation and highlighted the secrecy of non prosecution agreements and the failure to consult the victims. Media sociolegal research has documented the potential of investigative journalism to prompt reconsideration in decisions like this. And this is exactly what happened in Epstein's case. Brown series reframed what had sometimes been viewed as a local anomaly, kind of like oh, this doesn't normally happen into a widely recognized example of the differential criminal justice system or for wealthy defendants how the the treatment that the wealthy get is not the same treatment we get. The reporting compared Epstein sentence and work release conditions with typical penalties for individuals convicted of sex offenses, including minors. In Florida and nationally, where typically sexual offenses with a minor involve multi year prison sentences and far more restrictive confinement, the renewed attention arrived in broader context of the MeToo movement. By 2018, public debates about sexual abuse by powerful and institutional protections for alleged perpetrators had intens across multiple sectors. I mean we remember this happening. Harvey Weinstein was all during this time. Against this backdrop, Epstein's case became both a specific scandal and a symbol of how institutions respond to allegations against the wealthy and connected individuals. The public and political reaction to perversion of justice and to survivors accounts led for calls of official review. Members of Congress and advocacy organizations urge urged the GOJ to examine the handling of the Epstein case. The OPR opened a formal investigation into the 20072008 federal decision making and at the same time federal prosecutors in New York evaluated whether they could bring new charges under federal sex trafficking statutes based on conduct in their district that remained within the statute of limitations. On July 6th of 2019, federal authorities arrested Epstein at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey as he returned from overseas and charged him in the Southern District of New York with sex trafficking of minors and conspiracy to commit sex trafficking. This is in United States v. Epstein 2019. The indictment alleged that from at least 2002 to 2005, Epstein operated a scheme to recruit and sexually exploit underage girls at his residences in Manhattan and Palm beach, paying some victims hundreds of dollars and encouraging them to recruit other minors for him. He would also pay for this. These charges overlapped in time with conducted investigations in Florida, but were brought under federal statutes that explicitly address address sex trafficking of minors, emphasizing exploitation and coercion rather than using the language of quote, prostitution because again a minor cannot consent. Prosecutors in New York argued that the 2007 NPA agreement in Florida did not bar their office from bringing charges for conduct committed in their district, which is true. The OPR report and subsequent commentary supported the view that the non prosecution agreements entered by the U.S. attorney's office normally bind only that office and do not extend nationwide unless explicitly structured to do so. It also noted that New York can focus itself can. Excuse me. Also noted that New York case focused on offenses that fell within applicable statute of limitations period and in different federal jurisdiction from the other agreement. So there was no violation. Also, why is there a statute of limitation on raping people?
- [15:46]
B
Yeah. I have no idea about that.
- [15:48]
A
Like that seems like a crime that shouldn't have a statute of limitations.
- [15:51]
B
Yeah.
- [15:52]
A
Like really?
- [15:53]
B
Yeah. Like murder.
- [15:54]
A
Like why? Why? Why like raping a child that should not have a statute of limitations. That's crazy.
- [16:01]
B
You know the more I hear stuff like that and a. This stuff really didn't come to light in my life until the Epstein case. Right. And why would it? I. You know. But upon researching this too and just seeing how people handle it and hearing information like that, it just makes me realize how broken the system is. I just look at it and I shake my head. I'm like what are we man? Like I'm just disgusted by it anymore. You know.
- [16:28]
A
We have a system that's built to protect these people.
- [16:30]
B
100.
- [16:31]
A
I think that's one of the good things that's happening watching this utter lack of accountability in the US US is. It's exposing that this is always the way it's been.
- [16:39]
B
Yeah.
- [16:40]
A
That. It's just that now we have the technology to break news like this in a big way. When this has been going on forever. And the reality of it is, is that this starts when, like a young man or a talented man or a rich kid or whoever gets away with. When they're young.
- [16:56]
B
Yep.
- [16:56]
A
Right. Rough a girl up after homecoming or whatever it is, and it gets swept under the rug. And then it builds into these institutions. And it doesn't matter if it's government or business or wall street or the church. We have systems buil protect these people.
- [17:09]
B
Sick.
- [17:10]
A
It's sick. And that's why I think. I think there's something to be said about this whole. Well, the government would crumble.
- [17:15]
B
Good. Yeah, good.
- [17:17]
A
Because we need a new system. This system is not working. Oh, like I again, his. His. The deal of he gets to leave jail 12 hours a day.
- [17:26]
B
I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember we were talking about that. I just reminded me that, like, who else has gotten that?
- [17:32]
A
Nobody. And even. Even Ghisain Maxwell getting moved to low security prison. She can have a dog. She gets like special privileges. She's a human trafficker.
- [17:42]
B
Yeah.
- [17:43]
A
Insane. You and I wouldn't get that treatment.
- [17:45]
B
Oh, no, no. They'd burn. They'd burn me at the stake.
- [17:48]
A
Just for real. If she weighs as much as a duck, then she's a witch. If you guys have not seen Monty python in the search for the holy grail, you can watch it now and thank me later.
- [18:01]
B
You guys know it already. I know you know it.
- [18:03]
A
Oh, night. Until recently formally said knee.
- [18:06]
B
I re. I rewatched that recently and I forgot I was watching this. Going just like. What? Like I didn't remember being so bizarre.
- [18:13]
A
It's so insane. They call me Tim with the question.
- [18:20]
B
I like when they're talking to him and he just randomly shoots the thing out of the staff. The big sparkler. Anyway.
- [18:25]
A
Anyways, I digress.
- [18:26]
B
Sorry.
- [18:27]
A
Little Monty Python comedy break.
- [18:29]
B
We needed that. This is too much.
- [18:30]
A
This is gonna get real heavy.
- [18:32]
B
Yeah.
- [18:32]
A
So Epstein's initial appearances in bail hearings. Prosecutors argued that he posed both a serious risk of flight and a danger to the community. Yes and yes. Cited his prior convictions, the scale of the alleged trafficking scheme, his international travel, aircraft, multiple residences, and evidence that authorities had found a safe containing cash, diamonds, and a passport issued under another name in his Manhattan home. Defense attorneys proposed a package of conditions including home confinement in his New York residence with 24 hour private security, electronic monitoring, and a large bond secured by real property and other assets. But the court denied Epstein's bail request. And again, why should taxpayers be paying for that?
- [19:10]
B
Yeah, that's the thing that really Pisses me off.
- [19:12]
A
No, we shouldn't be spending money on you. In the bail rulings, the judge concluded that no combination of conditions would reasonably assure Epstein's appearance or protect the community, emphasizing that privately funded security arrangements are not an adequate substitute for state authority where there is a significant risk of flight or danger. Okay, I guess he was saying he was going to pay, but, yeah, he shouldn't be able to hire his own security either. That's crazy.
- [19:35]
B
Either way, it's no good.
- [19:36]
A
No good. This decision contrasted sharply with Epstein's obviously earlier experience in Florida where he had those very cushy work release conditions. So let's. Let's take a little. A little side path and let's talk about Ghislaine Maxwell, who was born in 1961 in Maison's Lafitte, France. She's the youngest child of British media proprietor Robert Maxwell and his wife, Elizabeth. She was raised mainly in the United Kingdom in an environment of considerable wealth, public prominence linked to her father's publishing and political connections. After attending elite schools, Maxwell studied at. I'm unsure the pronunciation here, Baloyo college, I believe. University of Oxford, and emerged in the 1980s as a visible figure in British high society, taking roles in her father's media enterprises and participating in social and charitable events. Robert Maxwell died in 1991, followed by revelations that he had improperly used pension funds from his companies, and it led to a collapse of his business empire and significant financial and reputational turmoil. Following those events, Ghislaine Maxwell relocated to New York, where she would rebuild a social position among transatlantic elites through philanthropy, social events, connections to political, academic, and cultural figures. And in this period, she formed a close association with Epstein that would later become the subject of civil complaints and criminal charges. Also in the Epstein files, it shows that Ghislaine Maxwell lied about on her citizenship application, but specifically, she has a. A Connecticut associated Social Security number. And she has no. She has no connections to Connecticut that we're aware of. She lied about serving in the military. It's marked on her application that she served in the military, and there's no record of her serving in any country ever.
- [21:15]
B
Sick.
- [21:16]
A
And it also also said that she had been convicted of a crime but approved for her Social Security number, but it doesn't specify what this crime was.
- [21:26]
B
Weird.
- [21:27]
A
And she also lied about her association and kind of references. But, like, her application was completely falsified to get her a U. S. Social Security number.
- [21:35]
B
It just goes to show you what do all. What do they all have in common? They all lie.
- [21:40]
A
They all lie.
- [21:40]
B
They're all liars. They're all. They all have money. They're all liars, and they're not good. You know, it's. It. Birds of a feather, man. That's all I gotta say. So all these people are cut from the same cloth.
- [21:51]
A
Her family obviously, like, had a reputational downfall because of finding out what her dad had done. So she just relocated to New York and just rebuilt her socialite kingdom here.
- [22:00]
B
Yeah, so.
- [22:01]
A
Accounts from civil lawsuits, investigative journalism, and later criminal proceedings describe Maxwell as the central presence in Epstein's residences and social life. Witnesses and documents portrayed her as managing staff, coordinating social and travel arrangements, and serving as the primary gatekeeper for access to Epstein. Civil and criminal allegations further stated that Maxwell participated more directly in the recruitment and grooming of minor girls for sexual encounters, including befriending them, offering them gifts, and attention, arranging or taking part in the encounters at the properties in New York. So she also actively, physically participated in the rape of these young girls after coercing them or winning their trust. Whatever she did.
- [22:40]
B
Good God.
- [22:40]
A
Beginning around 2015, Maxwell became a defendant in several civil suits that alleged defamation and complicity in sexual abuse. One of the most prominent was Virginia Duffrey's defamation action, in which Duffrey alleged that Maxwell had lied about and defamed her when denying Duffrey's accounts of being trafficked and abused. The case generated substantial discovery, including depositions and documents that later contributed to the public's understanding of Maxwell's relationship with Epstein and her relationship to the sex trafficking ring. On July 2, 2020, federal agents arrested Maxwell in New Hampshire on an indictment filed in the Southern District of New York. This is United States vs Maxwell, 2022. The charges included conspiracy to entice minors to travel, to engage in illegal sexual activity, conspiracy to transport minors for that purpose, substantive transportation offenses, and sex trafficking of a minor. Prosecutors alleged that between the mid-90s and 2004, she recruited and groomed at least several minor girls for Epstein by forming friendships, normalizing inappropriate contact between her, the girls and the girls, and Epstein, and then arranging or participating in encounters that included sexualized massages and other abuse.
- [23:47]
B
Good God.
- [23:48]
A
I know. Maxwell's trial began in November of 2021, included testimony from multiple women who said they'd been minors at the time of the conduct, and from the staff and other others familiar with the Epstein Residences. On December 29, 2021, a federal jury convicted her on five counts, including sex trafficking of a minor, transportation of a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual Activity and conspiracy counts at sentencing on June of, In June of 2022, the district court imposed a 20 year prison term to be followed by supervised release and imposed financial penalties citing the seriousness and the duration of the conduct. Like, and it's really important to remember that from what we know. What we know now is that there were at least a thousand girls.
- [24:30]
B
Yeah.
- [24:31]
A
At least.
- [24:31]
B
At least.
- [24:32]
A
Insane. That is a.
- [24:34]
B
That's a big number.
- [24:35]
A
That is a astronomical amount.
- [24:37]
B
Yeah.
- [24:37]
A
Like, this is not like it's so massive. It's. It really to me is comparable to like these huge, huge cases that came out with like the Catholic Church when like they had spanned for so long and it was so many boys, so many like. And, and Jeffrey Epstein is, is right up there. I'm not familiar with any other pedophile ring that has had more victims.
- [24:58]
B
Yeah.
- [24:59]
A
That it has at least been discovered because I don't think that his ring stopped. I think it's still in action. And it's. Things like that just don't disappear because the demand from elite men doesn't disappear.
- [25:08]
B
And how long had it been going before him? Yeah, you know, that's kind of my.
- [25:12]
A
Was he handed the reins to something that already existed or did he build it himself?
- [25:16]
B
And most of the time, you know, I. It could go either way, but I can totally see it being passed down.
- [25:22]
A
Yep.
- [25:22]
B
You know, like the whole thing with North Fox island, that whole thing we've talked about before, you know, is that just an extension. Is what he did just an extension of that? Speaking of Maxwell, you know, there's this thing going around too, thinking about our other case with JonBenet, the picture of JonBenet and it looks like Maxwell.
- [25:38]
A
Yeah.
- [25:38]
B
Have you seen that?
- [25:40]
A
So I've seen the picture and I've seen some comments about. I have not been able to confirm any of that.
- [25:44]
B
Me either.
- [25:44]
A
But I did see a comment on a page that I follow of a woman who claimed to be one of the parents. Really from those pageants who said that Maxwell would attend. But we also, we also know from. Because here's the thing. So we now know that Life Touch, which is the company that takes all the school pictures.
- [26:02]
B
Yeah.
- [26:03]
A
Was connected to Epstein. And so who's to say they're not looking at these pictures and then seeking out these girls?
- [26:09]
B
That's. That's all it is.
- [26:10]
A
You know what I mean?
- [26:10]
B
Like, she'd be good.
- [26:11]
A
Right. It's a shopping market for, you know, and obviously, I mean, we've talked about JonBenet where we believe it was a family thing. But it, it does. Like for me, it's really about the question of were they at these pageants, were they using people's school books and yearbooks to find and hunt people? I can see it because I mean, I'm telling you, if I had kids right now, I'd be canceling their school photos until the school told me what company is taking those pictures.
- [26:36]
B
100%.
- [26:37]
A
Like no way. I will sit my kid down in front of a white wall and take them myself. Like, like absolutely not. Anyways, so Maxwell appeals her conviction and the sentence in the U.S. court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Among other arguments, her attorneys cont the 2007 non prosecution agreement in Southern District of Florida should have precluded prosecution in New York, and they challenged various evidentiary rulings, jury issues and sufficiency of evidence questions. In 2024, the Second Circuit affirmed the judgment holding that the Florida non prosecution agreement bound only the office that entered that agreement. It did not extend to Maxwell and it did not bar prosecution by another district. Thank God. Since the appellate decision, Maxwell has filed additional postconviction motions, including a pro filing seeking to vacate the judgment. But as of the most recent rulings, her conviction and the 20 year sentence remain in place. She continues to serve her sentence in federal custody, though now she serves at a low security prison. And let's go back to Epstein. After his July 2019 arrest, Epstein was housed at the Metropolitan Correctional center in Manhattan, a federal detention facility used primarily for pretrial detainees and some sentenced prisoners long before Epstein's arrival. MCC has been criticized in reports and litigation for overcrowding, staffing, shortages, deteriorating infrastructure and limited access to medical and mental health care. These conditions reflect broader problems within the Federal Bureau of Prisons as a whole, including chronic understaffing and old facilities. Research indicates that the pre trial detention facilities, including federal centers and local jails, often have higher rates of suicide and self harm than longer term prisons, in part because detainees face acute uncertainty, disruption of social support and anxiety about impending legal outcomes. Data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics show that suicide has been the leading cause of death in local jails, accounting for a significant portion of mortality and occurring at rates several times those of the general population. Which doesn't surprise me at all.
- [28:30]
B
Not me either if you're, if you've
- [28:32]
A
never been to Manhattan. But I I've walked by the mcc. I've seen it and it is an old building, right? And it does have like a bad reputation for as most prisons do, being understaffed, overcrowded yeah.
- [28:41]
B
Comes with the territory.
- [28:42]
A
Right. Epstein was originally placed in general population and later moved to special housing unit, which is a more restrictive setting used for both dis disciplinary segregation and for protective custody. Studies found that the restrictive housing is associated again with an increased risk of self harm and suicide, especially for detainees with prior mental health problems. Professional guidelines emphasize the need for consistent observation, functioning, security cameras and regular mental health assessments in these units. Right. So when the OIG would later examine the conditions at mcc, it documented long standing problems that predated Epstein's detention. Again including the staffing shortages, heavily relying on mandatory overtime, leading to situations in which employees perform duties for which they had minimal training. The investigation also found failure in the basic security infrastructure, including malfunctioning cameras and a culture in which the falsification of required rounds and log entries had become common. So I just felt like that was good background for what this prison is kind of known for and how they were operating, or I guess it's technically a jail. On July 23, 2019, Epstein was discovered in his SHU cell with injuries to his neck and was found in a semi conscious state, prompting authorities to treat the incident as either a possible suicide attempt or an assault. He was placed on suic watch, which involved more intense observation and restriction, and later returned to the SHU under conditions that were supposed to involve heightened monitoring. Standard correctional practice in these circumstances calls for detailed assessment by mental health professionals and continued close supervision. In the early morning of August 10, 2019, Epine was found unresponsive in his cell and was pronounced dead after being transported to a hospital. The New York City Office of Chief Medical examiner ruled the death of suicide by hanging, citing autopsy findings consistent with a ligature hanging. Some experts noted that certain injuries observed during the autopsy, including fractures in the neck bones, can occur in both suicidal hangings and homicidal strangulation. At a point, it became a point of public discussion that did not alter the official determination of suicide. This brings me to another thing in the Epstein files is there's a memo in there.
- [30:47]
B
Yeah.
- [30:47]
A
Of the Department of Justice announcing Epstein's death. And the date is the day before.
- [30:53]
B
Oh, really?
- [30:54]
A
Yeah. So obviously, like, that could be a typo, right? It could be a typo, but typically
- [30:59]
B
with stuff like that, it's gonna be pretty spot on.
- [31:01]
A
So the Department of Justice like memo or the announcement of it is dated August 9th. He died August 10th. And that's part of the Epstein files as well, is that it has this wrong date on it.
- [31:11]
B
Interesting.
- [31:12]
A
So just a little fun tidbit.
- [31:13]
B
Interesting. And this really leads us definitely to a conspiracy which I'm sure we're going to talk about here in a second.
- [31:20]
A
My next sentence in my script. Epstein's death generated intense public reaction and numerous conspiracy theories.
- [31:25]
B
Sorry, I'm getting ahead now.
- [31:27]
A
We're going to put our hats on.
- [31:28]
B
Tinfoil hat engaged.
- [31:30]
A
Given his prior non prosecution agreement, the allegations of wide ranging network of abuse and the involvement of such prominent powerful figures, many observers expressed immediate skepticism that he could have died by suicide in federal custody without outside involvement. Public confidence was further undermined when it became known that officers assigned to monitor Epstein had not performed all of the required checks. And that some of the cameras in the unit were malfunctioning or not properly recording.
- [31:56]
B
How convenient.
- [31:57]
A
Well, how convenient. I don't blame people at all for this like this. So I mean this was the rise of like you don't hear this because we are going to cut it out of the. But there is this huge boom just now and Andy and I just look at each other like. Like what just happened. Apparently there's construction doing. Blasting like a ways off, but not far enough. But this was. This was the time that America United and it was all about Epstein didn't kill himself because it seems very suspicious. Like you're not checking. The cameras aren't working. And even the video that was released of them moving his body is missing a section.
- [32:30]
B
Like it's very suspicious, just a giant red flag flying.
- [32:33]
A
Very, very suspicious. Especially considering the fact, the deal that he already got in Florida and the fact, and now we know even more that so many elite people across the world are connected to this. A couple, the Saudi princes. Prince Andrew who was just arrested.
- [32:50]
B
You see the picture of that. That freak when he found out he got jail sentence. Fuck you.
- [32:55]
A
Fuck you, dude. The Prime Minister of Norway. Prime Minister Jaglund, obviously Elon Musk to the surprise of knowing. But like people connected to Harvard and I believe it's OSU in Ohio. Like academics, elite people are all connected to this. It would not surprise me at all if they were like we got to get rid of this guy because if he blows, he blows this up, we're all going down.
- [33:15]
B
And that's what I always subscribe to. Yeah, but I. I mean there's also that theory. I'm probably getting ahead here, but I'll go ahead and mention it. But you know that he didn't. That he's still alive.
- [33:24]
A
It would. It wouldn't shock me at all if we find out in the midst of all this that he's still living because
- [33:28]
B
there's that picture that's been circulating again. You can't prove it, but he's got longer, the guy's got longer hair, he's got a beard. Looks a lot like him.
- [33:35]
A
Looks a lot like him.
- [33:36]
B
I'm sure you've seen it.
- [33:36]
A
Yeah, I've seen it. My thing is, like, I, I can neither confirm nor deny, but I wouldn't be surprised.
- [33:42]
B
Yeah, me either.
- [33:42]
A
I wouldn't be surprised even the tiniest bit. But at the bare minimum, at the bare minimum, the reports that came out later characterized that his death was preventable, stating that if they had followed the existing Bureau of Prisons policies and proper staffing, it wouldn't have happened. Yeah, so it's something. And maybe, and maybe, who knows, maybe someone like slid those guards, you know, said, hey, just skip this one, you know, check or whatever. Who knows? Who knows?
- [34:09]
B
So here's some money.
- [34:11]
A
But the federal prosecutors charged two of the correctional officers, Tova Noel and Michael Thomas, with falsifying records that stated that they had conducted the required rounds when they had not. According to those court documents, the officers had spent periods of their shift browsing the Internet and resting instead of carrying out the mandated checks. Noel and Thomas entered into a deferred prosecution agreement, admitted to falsifying the records, and agreed to community service. After they complied, the charges were dismissed.
- [34:36]
B
Wow. Yeah, but you know, hearing that, I could, I could totally see that being plausible too. You get lazy.
- [34:42]
A
It's like, yeah, it's fine, you're tired, like, who knows how many double shifts you've had to work. And it doesn't justify what they do, not at all. It's, it makes a pathway of this is how that happens kind of a thing. So there was a recommended series of reforms for the Federal Bureau of Prisons in response to these findings that included increasing their staffing levels, enhancing training, making sure that they're repaying, and repairing and maintaining camera and alarm systems, which you would think would be a no brainer, and strengthening oversight of compliance and their monitoring requirements. Advocates and researchers have argued that the government responsibility for deaths in custody encompass both direct uses of force and failures to provide adequate conditions of care, which I do agree with, like across the board, as a general rule, because a lot of times, like prisoners can die from violence, including from guards, but also if they don't have adequate access to medical and mental health care, then you have like the suicide risk and big time, it's, it's one of those things that prisoners often get looped in the same way that, like, the homeless do or they become a problem that doesn't deserve. I am all for justice, and I'm all for people serving sentences for crimes they commit. They're still people and they still deserve access to health care. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [35:53]
B
Yeah.
- [35:53]
A
Like, it's only going to make it worse if you're not treating someone's mental
- [35:56]
B
health conditions and it's just gonna. It's only gonna make them worse when they get out.
- [36:00]
A
Yeah. You know, and they're so much more likely to reoffend.
- [36:02]
B
Oh, yeah. Jails make criminals better.
- [36:05]
A
Yeah.
- [36:05]
B
You know, they learn how to be better criminals. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [36:08]
A
So Epstein's death has therefore figured in onto broader abates about custodial safety, mental health services and detention facilities and the oversight of the Bureau of Prisons. Now, obviously, his death ends the criminal prosecution against him personally, but it did not terminate the efforts by Survival to seek civil survivors to seek civil remedies. In the months and years following we see this now, numerous survivors filed claims against his estate alleging sexual abuse, trafficking and related harms. Civil procedure scholars noted that the death of a defendant can complicate but does not necessarily extinguish tort claims, particularly when an estate has substantial assets which judgments and settlements can be collected against. The administrator of Epstein's estate established a voluntary claim resolution program that allowed survivors to submit claims outside of traditional litigation. Under the program, an independent administrator reviewed claims and determined compensation awards that were funded by the state, spoke parallel claims against the state. Survivors and governmental entities pursued civil actions against financial institutions and other organizations that had done business with Epstein. In 2023, JP Morgan and Chase agreed to pay pay $290 million settlement on a class action lawsuit brought on behalf of the alleged victims, who claimed the bank ignored warning signs during its long relationship with Epstein. Later that year, JP Morgan reached a $75 million settlement with the US Virgin Islands, which alleged that the bank played a key role in enabling and concealing Epstein's trafficking activities by failing to report suspicious transactions. The settlements with JP Morgan provided funds for victim compensation for initiatives in the U.S. virgin Islands aimed at combating human trafficking and supporting law enforcement. JP Morgan did not admit any wrongdoing, but publicly expressed regret for its association with Epstein. A little bit too late. Previous litigation had also involved Deutsche bank, which reached its own settlement with survivors in 2020, reflecting broader scrutiny of how global financial institutions monitor high risk clients. And with Deutsche bank in particular, they. They moved, they stored and moved $500 million of Epstein's that has no Source, like we still don't know where he got this money.
- [38:10]
B
Whoa, really?
- [38:10]
A
They moved it. They, they had him flagged as a high risk client. Client. They continued to work with him even after really strange, really bizarre transfers, deposits. Deutsche bank knew something was up and it was like it was verified in their internal records. And they didn't say anything or report anything.
- [38:26]
B
Oh my God. Like, that's not suspicious, right?
- [38:29]
A
Exactly. And that, that's another thing like with the banks, like at, at the bottom of the totem pole. You're, you're participating in like a money laundering scheme, right, I'm sure. Yeah, but like, like you, you allowed for this to happen, right? Because a lot of the money that he was using to kind of buy silence and make settlements was coming in and out of Deutsche bank. And that's all again, all in the latest release of files as well.
- [38:53]
B
But don't pay attention to that.
- [38:54]
A
Everybody just look away.
- [38:56]
B
It's a Democrat hoax.
- [38:57]
A
Yeah, right. Just look away. It's just, you know, it drives me crazy, so. Other organizations were also brought into civil suits. Universities, foundations, non profits examine their past relationships with him and several face lawsuits or formal complain alleging inadequate due diligence or failure to respond appropriately to information about his conviction. These cases aimed not only at monetary compensation, but institutional reforms. And this is like, and we're seeing so much more of this now, but you know, the head of the, the OB GYN, I think it's OSU's medical facility, was getting, you know, thousands of dollars every year from Epstein. And then there's a series of emails that say, who was the gynecologist you send your victims to? And it says victims. It says victims. It doesn't say you send your girls to. Yeah, it says victims.
- [39:42]
B
I.
- [39:43]
A
A lot of these institutions, they knew exactly what was going on sick or like, at the very least they knew something was up and they accepted his money anyway. And, and in that vein, his longstanding relationships with universities, scientific institutes and philanthropic organizations drew extensive scrutiny after his arrest and death. Investigations and media reports revealed some of the institutions had accepted donations from Epstein or his foundation even after his 2008 conviction, particularly in areas such as theoretical science and technology. In response, some universities return or redirected the funds, removed Epstein's name from donor list or physical spaces, and commission reviews of gift, gift acceptance and due diligence policies. He was especially connected with Harvard. He had an office up there. He was very obsessed. The way that Elon is about like creating like a genetic master race type of stuff.
- [40:34]
B
Like a Eugenics kind of thing. Like George Bernard Shaw.
- [40:37]
A
Yeah, well, and he also. He had a. I don't remember who the email was between, but it was. They were. They wanted to commission a study on the sexual activities of college students to, quote, test our horny virus, whatever that means.
- [40:53]
B
Wait, you say horny? Yes, Horny virus.
- [40:57]
A
Horny.
- [40:57]
B
Dude, I thought I, like, was hallucinating for a second.
- [41:00]
A
Yeah, like, what, what, What?
- [41:04]
B
Just. But just remember, birds of a feather, guys, right?
- [41:07]
A
Raging perverts, man.
- [41:09]
B
Man, I don't get it.
- [41:10]
A
So obviously these relationships provide donors with reputational benefits, because again, if you're. If you're someone who knew Epstein and you weren't part of any of the sex trafficking stuff, but you attended dinner with him.
- [41:20]
B
Yeah.
- [41:20]
A
And it's. It's an astrophysicist from this company that's creating, you know, incredible technology and it's someone in. In science who's curing, trying to cure cancer. And like, you meet all these people who, like, seem really upstanding. They're established, they're academics, they're smart. It. It cre. It gives Epstein a veneer of credibility for people that were associated with him. I mean, prior to 2008. I don't give anyone a pass. After 2008, if you knew about that conviction, you shouldn't have been associated with him.
- [41:50]
B
Like, full stop, that connection.
- [41:52]
A
And I'm sure, to a degree, like, people maybe in New Mexico and in New York maybe weren't aware of his conviction. Right. Because again, it was real hush hush, even in Florida. But anyone who knew about it, you don't get a pass, like, you don't get a pass from me. They call this, like, his way of networking with. With, you know, educational and technology and all this stuff. They call it reputational laundering, in which contributions to prestigious institutions help improve the public image of the donor involved in problematic activities. And I mean, this is what he did his whole life. He worked with Dalton School, gave him this reputation of being this elite teacher when he didn't even have a bachelor's degree. Then he worked for Bear Stearns. He's this elite money manager. And then he pitched himself as the, you know, the money manager to the. To the upper billionaire class. And once he got Les Wexner, that was all he needed.
- [42:38]
B
Yeah.
- [42:38]
A
And he just keeps doing it. Like, I think reputational laundering is. Is really like the. The unreleased B side of Epstein's life. That's what he did. He was just a fucking charlatan grifter. Yeah.
- [42:49]
B
Basically just a highfalutin Grifter.
- [42:52]
A
Yeah. And it was, and it was through these court cases in large part that like media reports and court documents would show all of these various high profile individuals flying in and out of Epstein's private aircraft, attending his properties, otherwise crossing path with him over a period of years. Years. In response, many issued statements emphasizing that their contacts had been limited social or related to philanthropy, which I think, I think some people were right. I'm. I'm sure that there were people that attended a dinner or met him and had no idea. But like, if you've been to the island, I don't believe you.
- [43:23]
B
You have a idea.
- [43:23]
A
If you've been on that plane multiple
- [43:25]
B
times, you have a idea.
- [43:26]
A
Like, you know.
- [43:26]
B
Yeah, agreed. Because I totally agree.
- [43:29]
A
I don't think you can be around someone like that for an extended period of time and not pick up something weird. Weird. Oh yeah, I don't believe that. And like any of these scientists that were like involved in his eugenics immediately. No, that's just gross. That's gross. You're gross. He's gross.
- [43:45]
B
Who else liked eugenics? Everybody. Oh yeah, the Nazis.
- [43:48]
A
The Nazis. Look at that.
- [43:50]
B
It all goes back to the Nazis. It always does.
- [43:53]
A
So let's talk about really kind of that process. So we, we've talked about his arrest, his death, Ghislaine Maxwell's convictions, her appeals, and now we're going to kind of jump to now and really what's gone on with the Epstein fil after our first of two mid show sponsor breaks. If you would like to not have these ads in your episodes, you can subscribe to Be a Hellion at patreon.com highway to Hell podcast. You also get early access to merch and the travel zines that we're making. We're bringing back the 90s.
- [44:20]
B
I love that.
- [44:21]
A
Right. So we will return to the Epstein files after this ad break. And we're back. Thank you for taking the time to listen to those ads. In addition to civil and criminal proceedings, Epstein's case has continued to evolve through the gradual release of documents, especially in the last two years. These materials, often referred to collectively as we know the Epstein files, include flight logs, deposition transcripts, correspondence, internal institutional records, and other discovery or investigative documents. Access to these records has been shaped by court orders, privacy protections, and more recently federal legislation. And I want to touch on because last week I attended bar fight with Michael Knowles, who is just a debaucherous human being. We were talking, I was so disgusted. So I was, I'm not even supposed to be Drinking. I drank three whiskeys in the. I was so angry.
- [45:05]
B
And maybe that's why you were angry.
- [45:06]
A
Oh, he just lies the whole time.
- [45:08]
B
Yeah.
- [45:08]
A
But one of the questions that came up in that episode was someone asked, well, why didn't Joe Biden release the files? Why didn't the Democrats release the files?
- [45:17]
B
I feel like that's something that always
- [45:19]
A
comes up, too, and it's a fair question.
- [45:21]
B
Yeah.
- [45:22]
A
Right. But this is something like. This is why it's important to clarify. We, obviously, we have three branches of government. Executive, judicial, and legislative. So the executive branch, unlike what we've seen recently, is not supposed to have any control over the judicial branch.
- [45:36]
B
Yes.
- [45:37]
A
They are not supposed to mess with the courts. They are not supposed to interfere with the Department of Justice. What we are seeing with the way the executive branch right now is controlling the Department of Justice is a violation of checks and balances. It's not supposed to work that way. So the Department of Justice and the judges sealed the Epstein files. Biden and the executive branch have no authority at all to release those files until an act of Congress prompts it. So because. And Trump shot himself in the foot, he ran on releasing the Epstein files, which was a big talking point. I think he thought it would never get through Congress. I think he thought he had too many Republicans, it wasn't gonna pass. And then, you know, Thomas Massie, I disagree with him on a lot of things, but he has stuck to his guns about releasing the files. But it was survivors and public. Public outcry in the United States that forced Congress to pass the Epstein Transparency Act. And then when that goes into law, then the Department of Justice is obligated to release it because the legislative branch has ordered for the release of those files. So that's why the Biden administration couldn't touch it, because it was. It was sealed by judges. It was sealed by the Department of Justice, and they didn't have authority. So that's why it was not unsealed there.
- [46:52]
B
You know what really just disgusts me is going to Trump and Epstein here for a second. The whole, like, he runs his second term on releasing the files. And then there's that clip of this arrogant asshole going, why are we still talking about him? Who is this guy? You know, like, can't we let it. No, we're not gonna let it go, Donnie.
- [47:14]
A
We're not gonna let it go. Are you serious?
- [47:15]
B
But, like, I saw that, man. I was like. Like, it just enraged me, you know? And I was just like, are you
- [47:23]
A
kidding me right now? So many conservative, like creators and commentators just be like, they either like Megyn Kelly justifies it, like, I mean, they were like 15, it's not like they were 5. There's pictures.
- [47:33]
B
Sign your daughters up there.
- [47:34]
A
There's, there's pictures of toddlers.
- [47:36]
B
Yeah.
- [47:36]
A
Being abused in the files. 8 year olds, 9 year olds, 10 year olds. And like the, the 14, 15, 16 year old is still being abused and she's still a kid.
- [47:45]
B
Kid.
- [47:45]
A
Just because you want to have sex with her does not make her a woman. Like, that's insane. But it, it really is. So, like, this is how we kind of got on this trajectory. And now, you know, between all of the distractions coming out of the administration and people just being like, why don't we just move on? And that's something like I, I try to post about other things that are happening that I think are important, like on my personal page. But also I keep coming back to the Epstein files because I'm like, I have a big enough platform. I'm not gonna let you forget.
- [48:14]
B
Yeah. As you should, shouldn't.
- [48:16]
A
Because this is crazy. And I mean, as of this recording, Prince Andrew was arrested yesterday.
- [48:20]
B
Yeah.
- [48:22]
A
But the United States are just like, no, never. And so pro life. We're not going to arrest pedophiles.
- [48:27]
B
Jesus Christ. But like, the whole idea of let's just move on, I feel like that's programmed into Americans because when anything big ever happens, what do we do? We just move on and we forget about it. You know?
- [48:39]
A
Well, Americans, especially, if we've been raised with this kind of American exceptionalism idea, we don't want to admit that we're the bad guy.
- [48:48]
B
Yeah.
- [48:48]
A
Ever. And there's a lot of instances where the US has been the bad guy tons of times. And we, and it's not about people. And, and like, the conservatives, especially in the administration, will be like, if you bring any of this up, will you hate America? No, I don't. I want America to stand for the values it claims it values. And by admitting where we've been the bad guy doesn't mean I hate the country. It means I want us to do better and take responsibility for it. Because then we can do something different.
- [49:15]
B
Absolutely.
- [49:15]
A
That's. We have to have honest conversations about systemic racism and what we did to Native Americans and what we've done to women. Just tell the truth. What we did in Vietnam.
- [49:24]
B
Yeah. Shouldn't have been there in the first place, by the way.
- [49:26]
A
We had no business being there.
- [49:28]
B
Cough, cough.
- [49:28]
A
And, and like, how, you know, the, the United States soldiers were allowed to dehumanize the Vietnamese people and abuse them and rape them. And the whole ace of spades kind of game they would play. We have to tell the truth, because then we can do better. Then we can make sure that we pass laws that like, hey, hey, we made this really fucked up mistake back here, and we need to make sure that nothing like that happens again, big time.
- [49:51]
B
You have to hold yourself accountable.
- [49:52]
A
Have to. And you can't hold yourself accountable if you deny it ever happened.
- [49:56]
B
It's not pleasant, but you have to do it.
- [49:58]
A
Yeah. And that's one of the things I love. I'm getting ready to go back to London this next week, and I haven't been back since 2019, but I love going to the Tower of London. And when you go, the Queen's private, like, soldier, I can't remember the word I'm looking for right now, but it's this private group called the Beef Eaters. It's kind of like this elite group that specifically serve, like, the Queen or the king. And they're the ones that take you through this tour and they talk about all of the horrific shit that happened in the Tower of London. And they show you where they used to execute people. And people would bring out their blankets and have a picnic, you know, and, you know, entertainment circa 1400.
- [50:33]
B
Like, people getting hung in the Old West. Let's go out and make a day of it.
- [50:36]
A
And, like, people would actually. People would actually cut off pieces of the person that was executed and keep them as souvenirs anyways. But what I love about it is they're. They're just so honest, right? And. And these men are so proud to be British. They're so proud of where they're from. And they're like, so. Yeah, so this. They'll be like, this King and Queen was super fucked up. You know, like, they won't say it that way, but they're so honest.
- [50:56]
B
Yeah.
- [50:57]
A
And it's so healthy. And I. I hope that there is a time when America can get to that place where we're like, ooh, this was really bad. We're kind of ashamed of this. But so we moved on, we made better laws, and now look at where we are.
- [51:08]
B
I think we'll get to that point. You know, the thing we always have to remember, America versus the rest of the world is we're very young. We're a very young country compared to everybody.
- [51:18]
A
I compare us a lot to Justin Bieber. We got too rich, too quick, too young. And that's why we made a mess of everything.
- [51:25]
B
And, you know, it's funny you mentioned him in with all this Epstein stuff, man. I saw that clip. I'm sure a lot of you have too, where he's on the View and they're asking him those questions and they're like kissing on him and shit. Fucking weird, dude. That upset me seeing that with this info now again, I probably didn't see it when it happened. I know it's shocking to hear. I don't really like pop music. Shocker. But it's. Yeah, exactly. But like, seeing it now after all this information, I cringe when I see it. I cringe and I. I would not
- [51:58]
A
be surprised at all. He was abused too. I mean, he came in so young. And the connection with Diddy, that says
- [52:04]
B
it all right there.
- [52:05]
A
Wouldn't surprise me. So again, as these files start to collect and the talk about releasing the Epstein files is happening, one of the early focal points of unsealing the documents was from, again, Virginia Jufre's 2015 defamation case against Maxwell. In December of 2023, the US District Judge Loretta Presca ordered the unsealing of a large set of documents from that litigation while giving individuals mentioned in the files the opportunity to object. In January of 2024, hundreds of pages were released identifying numerous associates and acquaintances with Bill's. Bill. Bill Clinton's. In the next line, acquaintances of Epstein, including Prince Andrew, former presidents Donald Trump and Bill Clinton, and other public figures. Many were mentioned only in passing. The documents themselves did not constitute a criminal allegation, but it did release things like flight logs so we could see who was spending a lot of time with him, who was going to the island. And I love this whole, like, conservative talking point of, well, the Clintons are in the files. Lock him up. Like, you act like I like Bill Clinton. I don't.
- [53:05]
B
That's what gets me, too.
- [53:06]
A
He's a predator, too.
- [53:07]
B
It's kind of.
- [53:08]
A
I don't have a favorite pedophile, man.
- [53:10]
B
Hey, guy, here. Here's a crazy notion. I hate them all. I know, it's shocking.
- [53:17]
A
I'm an equal opportunity hater.
- [53:18]
B
Yeah. I don't hate just one. I hate them all.
- [53:21]
A
Like, all of them. Like, again, if you were on the island at any point, like, immediately, like, to jail.
- [53:27]
B
Yeah.
- [53:27]
A
Like, throw them to the wolves, dude.
- [53:29]
B
I think we should bring back impaling. But that's just me, right?
- [53:32]
A
For people like this, I strongly consider it.
- [53:35]
B
Impale them in front of the White House. Let them hang out. Out.
- [53:38]
A
So obviously there was a Lot of push back. Like, the public had really strong interest in knowing how the justice system and other institutions were involved with Epstein. There were concerns as well about privacy, safety and due process for the victims named in the documents, which unfortunately, thanks to Pam Bondi and the Department of Justice, has put the victims at risk. These debates culminated in the passage of last year's Epstein Files Transparency act, which, by the way, the Department of Justice is still in violation of. They were supposed to release the entirety of the files in December. It is now February. They have only released half and they have gotten the redactions wrong. The Epstein Transparency act only allows for redaction of victims. They do not get to redact people's names because it might embarrass them or it might be politically unfavorable. And they've been doing that. And they've only released three million of the files. And they're supposed to be six and a half million documents.
- [54:30]
B
These fucking people just think they can do whatever they want. Want?
- [54:33]
A
Well, yeah, but the Dow's up.
- [54:34]
B
I was just going to say that. You beat me to it.
- [54:37]
A
Oh, that picture of her where all of the victims are raising their hand saying that they have offered to give an interview and they've been ignored and she just won't even look at them. I don't use this word likely, but
- [54:49]
B
what a. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [54:51]
A
Oh, my God. And every time I think that Christy Gnome or KK Caroline's face is the most punchable, Pam Body enters the chat.
- [54:59]
B
Dude.
- [54:59]
A
God. Like, it's disgusting. She is Trump's Ghislaine Maxwell.
- [55:03]
B
Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. That woman's voice drives me up a wall too. I just saw that. You know, I don't really follow a lot of. I don't know. Sorry, I totally lost my train of thought there. But just, just hearing her voice, like when she was, I guess, talking with, you know, the last thing she did just irritated me. I'm like, good Lord. Just. Oh, God. Anyway, I digress.
- [55:27]
A
So an initial 950 pages of court related material had already been made public in 2024, which is what we talked about. And then this larger batch of approximately 3 million pages of documents was released on January 30, along with approximately 180,000 images and 2,000 video files. And when I tell you that some of those videos are the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life, it's. It's so. It's so disturbing.
- [55:53]
B
How many images did you say there is?
- [55:55]
A
180. Thousand images.
- [55:57]
B
Holy shit.
- [55:58]
A
And 2,000 video files.
- [55:59]
B
That's what I thought you said. I was like.
- [56:00]
A
Well, like, because. Because DOGE cut the budget for the. I believe it's Adobe software the Department of Justice was using for edits and redactions.
- [56:10]
B
Good Lord, what year?
- [56:11]
A
And they're using some cheap other software. People were able to go in and remove the redactions because of how it was added. I know that.
- [56:18]
B
Yeah. Like, you go up to the. The URL and like, remove some of it. Like some tech guy I saw on Instagram was talking about it. That's unbelievable.
- [56:26]
A
Because they're using this cheap software because Elon cut the budget using doge. We live in a clown car. It's a clown.
- [56:33]
B
Adobe 4 and Internet Explorer coming at you.
- [56:38]
A
So obviously, the release of these files, there's numerous prominent individuals as friends, social contacts, business associates. And there's extensive material about Epstein staff, accountants, pilots, and other close associates. Names that reportedly appear frequently in the files can confirm his assistant, Leslie Grof, Richard Kahn, his accountant, President Donald Trump, first lady Melania Trump, lawyer Doran Indike Maxwell, the modeling agent, Jean Lick Brunel. Jean Luc Brunel. The Justice Department has stated that the presence of a person's name in the files does not imply criminal conduct. I disagree. I disagree. If you. If you appear in there a lot.
- [57:13]
B
Yeah.
- [57:14]
A
And Donald Trump's name in the unredacted files that the. That Congress has been able to view because congressional people can go in. So not only is the Department of Justice monitoring what those Congress people view, because we saw that with Pam Bondi's testimony.
- [57:27]
B
The tow's up.
- [57:28]
A
But according to members of Congress, Donald Trump's name in the unredacted files appears more than a million times.
- [57:38]
B
You said a million.
- [57:39]
A
A million.
- [57:40]
B
Fucking kidding me. A million times.
- [57:42]
A
But he didn't do anything wrong. Can you imagine if it was Obama drama?
- [57:47]
B
Oh, like people.
- [57:48]
A
People would be burning the country down.
- [57:50]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [57:50]
A
We probably should be, quite frankly.
- [57:52]
B
I agree. A million times.
- [57:55]
A
Yep. Yep. And again, within these files, they release the names of victims. They released fully unedited nude and torture videos of the survivors. Disgusting. While redacting the names of co conspirators.
- [58:10]
B
And so that says it all right there.
- [58:12]
A
Right.
- [58:13]
B
That. That goes to show you who the. Who their allegiance is to.
- [58:16]
A
Yeah. Pam Bondi came into her testimony with pages of documents recording that they had been tracking and surveilling Congress to make sure they knew what Congress people were looking at. She also came in with a stack of cards where she had curated insults to each of the people on the committee. God, are we four?
- [58:36]
B
Like, what, mentally?
- [58:38]
A
Like, I mean, it's, it's, it's never been more clear whose side they're on.
- [58:42]
B
I don't think a 4 year old's
- [58:44]
A
that mean most of the time. No. Like, unless you're raising a little sociopath.
- [58:48]
B
I probably was, but I think you
- [58:50]
A
were probably actually like a really sweet kid. Just like a little weird.
- [58:53]
B
No, I, I, I was until high school. And then I got the Catholicism card dealt at me. Then I let the hatred flow.
- [59:03]
A
I love the comments we get about Catholicism where people are like, andy, I understand. I get you, Andy. I feel that.
- [59:10]
B
Thank God. I think I said on a one episode, but I'm proud to say this, that I went to a Catholic high school for four years and didn't get molested. So I, so there's that.
- [59:18]
A
That's, it's a good start.
- [59:19]
B
I guess I wasn't attractive enough to him. I don't know.
- [59:23]
A
So, I mean, but obviously the files, like, I think show just how corrupt our system is.
- [59:29]
B
Oh, it's disgusting.
- [59:30]
A
And again, I, you, I don't for a second believe that the, this ring just ended. I just don't.
- [59:39]
B
No, it's the whole thing with this too. And it's so troubling and upsetting to me because I do like our country. It's not perfect.
- [59:49]
A
I do. And I want to see it be better.
- [59:51]
B
I want it to be better. But I think about when I see all this disgusting stuff, I think about the people that fought in wars to preserve freedom, aka World War II. World War, you know, because that, to me, World War II is like the last one I think we should have been involved in. And just, and I'm not trying to attack any soldier or anything like that. You know, it's just I look at what's being defended right now and I can't help but think about the people that died for our freedom. And this is what it's become. That, that sickens me. And that's very upsetting to me.
- [60:23]
A
And I hear that a lot from vets. Like my whole family has been like both of my grandfathers, my adopted grandfather, my grandmother, my brother's a vet.
- [60:30]
B
Yeah.
- [60:31]
A
And I hear this from them all the time of. I can't believe that this is what I enlisted for.
- [60:37]
B
Yeah. And that's just, that's what's really upsetting to me, you know, and a couple
- [60:41]
A
little additions to the Epstein files. So Zorro Ranch in New Mexico within the files. There was a document released that said that there were the bodies of two foreign girls who had been trafficked to Zorro Ranch that were buried on the property by Maxwell and Epstein. Epstein and Zorro Ranch was never searched. Why it was never searched? New Mexico had planned to lead a statewide investigation that was stopped by the feds because they didn't want a parallel investigation. I don't think. It doesn't appear to me that it was meant to be. Like, don't ever look. It was like, okay, that makes sense. We get this investigation and get this right. Get him convicted, and we'll add this later.
- [61:17]
B
Gotcha.
- [61:18]
A
I think they didn't want to prolong sentencing him. Is. Is the vibe I get from that.
- [61:22]
B
That makes sense.
- [61:23]
A
But it still has never been searched. Although New Mexico just announced an investig to Zoro Ranch this week, which is great. But I found this interesting. So Jeffrey Epstein's former Zorro Ranch was purchased by a company connected to the family of Don Haines, which is a Texas businessman. He's a former state senator. The property was sold by the estate to settle debts, has been renamed San Rafael Ranch. And Don Hafiens, who used to be the leader of a Boy Scout troop, plans to recreate the ranch into a Christian retreat, but they have not specified what kind of retreat they may make it into a Bible camp.
- [62:02]
B
Jonestown Junior over there.
- [62:03]
A
See, that actually freaks me out a little bit.
- [62:05]
B
Yeah, me too.
- [62:06]
A
Like, I think if I bought a property like that, knowing what was going on and what had happened, I wouldn't bring kids anywhere near it. Yeah, that freaks me out a little bit. I mean, and he bought it in 2023 for the valuation of over 13 million.
- [62:19]
B
And even hearing just, you know, Christian Bible camp, it immediately the alarm goes off. Thinking about some of the, you know, the other things you've talked about on your other podcasts, you know, and the things that. The Christian nationalist kind of camps and stuff that we've talked about, it's just
- [62:34]
A
not indoctrination and systems of abuse, man.
- [62:36]
B
Exactly.
- [62:37]
A
Like. And here. And here's the thing, because I know we talk about this a lot, and I just always want to voice this, that, like, the difference between a Christ follower and a Christian nationalist is huge.
- [62:45]
B
Yeah.
- [62:45]
A
But Christian nationalism is really a big problem right now.
- [62:48]
B
Absolutely.
- [62:48]
A
And it's all about force and control, and you have to live how I believe you should live. And it's just awesome. Awful. And then the other thing I wanted to talk about. So there's a lot of connection between Epstein and Saudi Princes Epstein and the Kremlin. So we got some nice Russia connections. We'll get in there in a second. But it was confirmed that Israel installed security at Epstein's Manhattan apartment for an ex Israeli prime minister. The investigative report reveals that Israeli UN mission coordinated with the convicted sex offender at this time to secure a Manhattan right residents. Based on a group of emails recently released again by the doj, Israeli officials coordinated directly with Epstein and his staff. Epstein gave final approval to secure a residence at 301 East 66th street in New York in 2016. The former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barack frequently used the apartment for extended stays. So the property is technically owned by a company linked to Mark Epstein, Epstein's brother, but Epstein himself actually controlled it. The units in the building were frequently loaned to Epstein's associate associates and used to house weight underage models.
- [63:56]
B
Good God.
- [63:58]
A
So I'm just going to briefly also touch on the Russian connection. So the recent investigative report by. This comes from the Daily Mail, highlights references within partially unsealed Epstein related court documents to Russian officials and institutions, including numerous mentions of Moscow and Vladimir Putin. The outlet reports that Epstein maintained contact with individuals linked to Russian government even after his 2008 conviction, again for procuring a minor for prostitution. According to intelligence sources, Epstein may have been operating as what they call an extensive honey trap network gathering compromising material on wealthy and powerful individuals, potentially for leverage by foreign intelligence services. These claims remain allegations obviously, but mirror concerns long associated with cold war era intelligence tradecraft which as a reminder, Putin was part of the kgb.
- [64:44]
B
Yes.
- [64:45]
A
And so that's, that's his kind of mainstay. And I've, I've also thought that Epstein got away with a lot of things by doing this honey trap network of. He had so much damning material on all these powerful people. He's like, you're gonna do what I say or else I'm gonna release this.
- [64:59]
B
Yep, yep, absolutely.
- [65:00]
A
Multiple investigations and journalistic reports have documented the use of U. S. Real estate to launder foreign capital, including funds linked to Russian oligarchs and organized crime. The United States has comparatively weak transparency requirements for all these cash real estate transact actions of vulnerability identified by the Treasury Department and international watchdogs. Public statements by the Trump family members have fueled the scrutiny as well. In 2008, Donald Trump Jr. Told a real estate conference that Russians represented a disproportionate cross section of Trump organization assets. Separately, testimony has attributed to Eric Trump the statement that the company did not rely on American banks and had access to significant Russian funding. Senator Ron Wyden, in ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee Committee, has repeatedly sought access to Epstein's financial records, citing potential international money laundering and bank compliance failures, which we've seen some of now with this recent release. He introduced legislation aimed at compelling the treasury disclosure of Epstein related banking activity, which has not moved forward. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee and Special course special counsel Robert Mueller documented extensive contacts between individuals linked to the Russian government and members of the Trump Council campaign. The American Progress Action Funds Moscow Project catalogs more than 270 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence. Paul Manafort, Trump's 2016 campaign chair, admitted to sharing internal polling data with Konstantin Kimalik, an individual U. S. Intelligence considers linked to Russian intelligence. The New York Times later reported that investigators viewed Manafort's conduct as a grave counterintelligence threat. Threat and the Washington Post and the New York Times have reported that Trump retained and transported classified materials to unsecured locations, including during foreign travel. Intelligence officials later acknowledged the loss of comp the loss or compromise of numerous CIA informants worldwide, though the causation has not been publicly established. Following Trump's private 2018 meeting with Putin and Helsinki, during which no detailed US record was preserved, former intelligence officials told the Washington Post that the CIA experienced acute alarm harm over potential exposure of their sources. The Mueller report identified 10 episodes that raised obstruction of justice concerns, including attempts to curtail the investigation, influence witnesses and remove the special counsel. While Mueller did not make a prosecutorial judgment due to the Department of Justice's policy, the report explicitly stated it did not exonerate Trump either. Ongoing concerns US Intelligence agencies have publicly assessed that Russia interfered with the 2016 elections in support of Trump and also the polarization of the American public, using over 3,000 people every day to use online Facebook sites, both left and right leaning to polarize the opinions of the American public. Former officials have stated Russian leadership celebrated Trump's victory, viewing it as strategically beneficial. Collectively, these findings and reports obviously don't constitute proof of criminal guilt, but there is a established connection between Epstein's funds, his connections, his money laundering, his real estate, as well as the real estate ownings of the Trump family. It just keeps getting bigger.
- [68:08]
B
This might be the greatest conspiracy in the hits in like the history of man. Yeah, you know,
- [68:16]
A
an exaggeration in terms
- [68:17]
B
of just how many people are involved. It's. It doesn't stop like the whole thing you mentioned with Putin. I didn't.
- [68:24]
A
I.
- [68:24]
B
That's news to me. I haven't really delved in. Like you have.
- [68:28]
A
Yeah.
- [68:28]
B
But like it's connected to everybody.
- [68:32]
A
Everybody.
- [68:32]
B
It's insanity.
- [68:34]
A
And, and to the point of, you know, how, like, how many people are connected, how much money and how many people haven't been revealed yet but are also caught in kind of this honey trap thing where they, they did something, they thought they were going to get away with it and then they got blackmailed. And again, I'm not exonerating anybody who participated.
- [68:52]
B
No, no, of course.
- [68:53]
A
But if you're, you know, at this point, I would hope that it. Even if it's somebody who was like, I knew it was happening and I didn't say anything, everything hopefully comes forward because this, this investigation can't stop. It can't stop.
- [69:05]
B
Nope.
- [69:05]
A
And I don't care who it brings down. I don't care what has to happen. Yeah. This, this needs to be investigated and punished. It has to be. Because if we let this slide, there will be no accountability ever. We will be. They'll be able to do corruption forever.
- [69:20]
B
They'll be able to do anything.
- [69:22]
A
Anything.
- [69:23]
B
Anything.
- [69:23]
A
Murdering, eating and raping kids if that can't get you locked up. And that isn't aligned for people. People. Whoever follows you is absolutely lost. I'm sorry.
- [69:34]
B
Agreed.
- [69:35]
A
Absolutely lost. So now that we've covered Epstein, we're going to do the travel portion. We didn't do it last time because we figured we would put the travel itinerary at the end of the second episode. But before we do that, we're going to take us our second of two mid show sponsor breaks again. If you want these episodes ad free, you can sign up to be a hellion@patreon.com highway to Hell podcast. All right, here we go.
- [69:55]
B
And we're back.
- [69:56]
A
And we're back. Back. So because we've already done New York with Albert Fish, we did New Mexico with the Skinwalkers and the Navajo Nation, we decided to build a travel itinerary around Palm beach also because it's been cold and if you're going to go to somewhere warmer, Palm beach is going to be the pick. Even though today it's 70 degrees in Nashville. It's so confusing.
- [70:16]
B
It makes no sense.
- [70:17]
A
I'm so confused.
- [70:18]
B
Although I think the warmest location is probably going to be hell. And that's where a lot of these people are going to go.
- [70:22]
A
Should go. That's where even Satan's like, I don't want them.
- [70:25]
B
Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's probably like, don't. He has his pitchfork. He's going back, get back, go to purgatory.
- [70:31]
A
So for those of you that haven't been to Palm beach, this is not your typical Florida man environment. I would know this if you don't remember. Andy's from Florida. Yeah, this is very, very bougie. This is your bougie beach vacation. So I built a four day weekend in Palm Beach. So this is like living in New York. Everyone has a house. Like they either have, they have a place in New York and they have a place in Palm beach is usually where the two are or, or they have a place on the Cape and they have a place in Palm beach or the Hamptons. But the Palm beach is popular. We're going to start with coffee at Sant Ambros Palm Beach. This is very like Italian. It's Italian coffee, it's delicious. But it's also got this kind of Milan bougie energy and it's got a great outdoor area which I, my favorite thing to do when I travel is to like get coffee, sit outside, especially if it's in, in Europe, most of the places. But like sitting outside and just watching people go, go by. So it's a great coffee shop for that. There's a bunch of hidden courtyards in Worth Avenue. This is like winter lights are put up here. It's really, really pretty. I don't know if they still have them up right now, but especially around the holiday season they have them up and it's really, really beauta buda. It's really, really beautiful. I swear in my mouth, just making
- [71:43]
B
up words, just talking about Florida's reducing your iq.
- [71:47]
A
So. And again in the winter, the winter. So if you're gonna go to Palm beach in the winter, it is going to be busier. Obviously everybody's, everybody's fleeing the cold. But Bucan B U C C A N is a local favorite restaurant. This is kind of a creative, almost tapas style, small plates. But for this restaurant you have to get a reservation. Like don't try to swing unless you're by yourself. You can typically get in, but if you're two or more, you want to get a reservation. There's a beautiful lake trail to walk at sunset and this is like perfect temperature in the water. Winter, it's just beautiful outdoor energy. Then get drinks at the HMF at the Breakers. So this isn't, you know, I love a speakeasy even though I'm not supposed to be drinking. I, I'm back on the wagon after Wednesday. Not a speakeasy, but this is, it's Very dim. It's glamorous. Like ladies. If you want to take like a girls trip and you just want it like a little bit more glamorous. Palm beach is a great place to do this because you don't want to stay there. I feel like it would be boring to be there for like a week. But if you're going for like a bachelorette or a birthday, it's a great place. Place. And then do a late dinner at Le Bil Bouquet, which is this buzzy, beautiful French restaurant, which is so good. I've really started to. I'm such a foodie. I really started to get more and more into French cuisine. I think that's my next thing I'm going to be obsessed with.
- [72:55]
B
Once you're allowed to eat.
- [72:56]
A
Once I'm allowed to eat food again. On day two, we're going to start the morning at Subculture Coffee. This is strong coffee. It's super artistic. It's really cute. This feels a lot more local to me. Which is kind of my favorite. Favorite. And in Northwood Village, there's a lot of galleries and vintage shops for you vintage lovers. Actually, I was in Minneapolis. I got a new leather jacket.
- [73:14]
B
Sweet.
- [73:15]
A
From a vintage store. It's blue leather and it's covered in silver spikes.
- [73:20]
B
Oh, nice.
- [73:20]
A
And it has like off on the sleeve. It's so good. That's so good. But it was. It was expensive, but it was worth it. Lunch, we're gonna go to Grotto, which is a wood fired. Relax. Wood fired grill. Relax. This is local crowd. Day two is a little bit more local. Local. Day one's a little bit more bougie, but kind of settling into your trip. In the afternoon, go to the Norton Museum of Art. This is contemporary and rotating exhibits. And this isn't a super big museum. It's about two to three hours at the most. Would take you at night we're gonna go to Sassafras, which was my favorite. And the reason you'll see why it's my favorite here. This was my favorite stop was it's a New Orleans inspired cocktail bar. Oh, there you go again. We're dim. It's velvet. It's rich. I love New Orleans. Orleans. And if New Orleans was not even further into the South, I think I would move there. I love it so much. And then in Palm beach, go to live music at Respectable Street. This is like indie, punk, alternative. It's gritty, it's fun. And then go to a late night craft cocktail at Kapow, which is. They have a Lot of off the menu drinks. If you go to kapow, ask for the off the menu drinks. It's interesting. Day three, we're gonna do a little bit more in like antique Rose Row rooftop. Again, it's nice, it's warm. And especially if you're from a really cold region, it's a great way to take a break. You're gonna go to coffee at Common Grounds Coffee and then Antique Row browsing. This is on the Dixie Highway. A lot of mid century finds weird Florida stuff. This is like weird Florida relics where you're like, why do you have that? Like, why is that there? But really fun. Go to lunch at the Hive Bakery and Cafe. This is very art forward. This is a like a lunch spot. Cute, relaxing, very art forward. As for the afternoon, go walk the waterfront downtown, which is really, really beautiful. And again like with beach vacations, I really think like relax. You're there to like have great drinks, great coffee, great food and like take a load off.
- [75:12]
B
Yeah.
- [75:13]
A
And unless the city's, you know, really old or has a lot of sites, I think it's just a time to kind of relax. Especially after what's been happening the past few months. For late night on day three, sunset cocktails at Spruzzo, which is the rooftop at the Bend. The Ben is, is this beautiful. It's got a beautiful spa in it if you really want to treat yourself. But their rooftop has great drinks at Spruzo. And then there's jazz nights at the Kravis, the Kravis center, which is this smaller lounge but like true, kind of more of a true jazz bar, which is really, really beautiful. And last day, do a beach walk. I mean obviously, hopefully you're doing that every day, but go get coffee and breakfast at Greens Pharmacy. This is, this is an old school soda fountain type place. Really, really beautiful, really fun. And you can if you're a golfer. This, this was recommended to me. I am not a golfer. I do not golf.
- [76:00]
B
I used to golf.
- [76:01]
A
I do not play cow pasture pool.
- [76:03]
B
I did, I was.
- [76:04]
A
Did you really?
- [76:04]
B
Oh, yeah, I was really good as a kid.
- [76:05]
A
You were, you were. So you're cuz. Also fun fact about Andy, you're black belt.
- [76:09]
B
Yeah.
- [76:09]
A
In karate.
- [76:10]
B
Yeah.
- [76:11]
A
You're a scuba. Scuba. Scuba instructor.
- [76:14]
B
No, licensed scoop. Scuba diver.
- [76:17]
A
Okay. You're a licensed scuba diver. Right. Let's start that again. You are a black belt on karate. A licensed scuba diver. Driver. And you were a really good golf.
- [76:25]
B
Yeah, a bunch. Basically I was good at a bunch of stuff. You can't make money at.
- [76:30]
A
But you're also a phenomenal guitar player and you can make money at that sometimes.
- [76:35]
B
Not right now anyways. That's another depressing story. But anyway, so.
- [76:39]
A
But they recommended Palm Beach Par 3 Golf Course. Apparently there's beautiful ocean views and it. And just a gorgeous place to be. Do lunch at the Avocado Grill. Great cocktails, bright flavors. It's your last day. Get a cocktail for lunch, do it. And then dinner at Cafe Bolid, which is again, refined French. It's romantic winter energy geared this toward that. And then go to a nightcap anywhere. I would say find like an Oceanside bar. I don't have anything in particular, but go to like one of the hotels either on the island near Palm Beach.
- [77:08]
B
Like, go out, there's tons of them.
- [77:09]
A
Or you can go by the ocean, have some great cocktails to kind of wrap up your last day. But just know again, booking this in the winter, January to March is peak season, so just make sure you're making your reservations early. But it's great to get out of the cold and take a break from all of it.
- [77:23]
B
The weather's always nice down there too.
- [77:25]
A
Yeah. And I mean, evenings can dip into the 50s, so make sure you bring up jacket. It's really warm during the day. And again, what we're going to do, we're start doing for Patreon. We're working on building these. I have a graphic designer working on them, where there's going to be downloadable itineraries and we're going to possibly expand them a little bit, make them a little bit more expanded versus what we did on the show.
- [77:44]
B
Oh, that'd be great.
- [77:45]
A
And as the MTA in New York likes to say, if you see something, something, say something. If people are being weird around kids or they have allegations or they don't act right, like, just say something. Like, say something to your family or say something to a friend. If you are someone who is being abused or you think someone might be, say something.
- [78:06]
B
Yeah, big time.
- [78:06]
A
Don't. Like all of this stuff grows in secret and in privacy. And the more money. And even if you're like, well, he's the son of the mayor or whatever. And I understand that. We, you know, we've seen the justice system doesn't play fair with everybody. Everyone. But even with all of that, say it anyway. Say it anyway. And at least like, try to create a paper trail, try to create some consequences, because this is just preposterous.
- [78:29]
B
And I guess I could piggyback on that too with, with the Whole Epstein thing. Keep on it, Keep on it. Don't let talking about it. Keep talking about it. That's what I intend on doing.
- [78:39]
A
They want to flood the system so that we move on to other things. And that doesn't mean that there's not other things worth talking about. About like I just killed another woman in Georgia.
- [78:47]
B
Jesus.
- [78:47]
A
Yeah, like school teacher driving on her way to work. Dr. Linda Davis. And you know, there's.
- [78:53]
B
I saw the name. I didn't know.
- [78:54]
A
He is trying to pass capital punishment for abortion and all these things, all of these things are worth talking about. But make sure we come back to the Epstein files and it, and it is a balance. And I'm learning this now that like, I have to find a way to talk about this stuff and, and be in it and still live and have some joy and, and have fun at times too, because it got really, it got really heavy there a couple weeks ago.
- [79:18]
B
I'm having a hard time balancing that stuff right now, you know, and there's other things going on too, but it's just, I think that's the thing. Don't let it totally take over, you
- [79:27]
A
know, because you can't, you can't have like, you can't pour from an empty cup and if you're completely depleted, eventually you'll just burn out.
- [79:35]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
- [79:36]
A
A little bit of a balance. But thank you for taking this two part journey with us. Thank you for learning. Thank you for the great comments, the topic suggestions. Thank you for everyone that signed up on patreon.com highway to help podcast.
- [79:48]
B
Very appreciated.
- [79:48]
A
Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Highway to Help pod and we will see you next week on highway to Hell.
- [79:54]
B
Thanks, guys.