Unholy Sh!t with Father Nathan Monk

Summary

Flipping Tables Podcast — "Unholy Sh!t with Father Nathan Monk"

Host: Monte Mader
Guest: Father Nathan Monk
Date: December 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this deep, candid, and often irreverent conversation, Monte Mader interviews Father Nathan Monk—former Orthodox priest, activist, and author—about his journey from conservative evangelical upbringing to outspoken critic of church corruption and homelessness advocate. The discussion traverses Monk’s unstable, poverty-stricken childhood, his nonlinear path through various Christian traditions, his experiences working with marginalized communities, and his eventual break from the church amid controversy. Together, they interrogate the failings of modern American Christianity, the weaponization of faith, the mechanics of poverty, and the challenges and liberation of deconstructing one's faith. Rich with humor and raw honesty, the episode is a resource for anyone wrestling with faith, activism, and belonging.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nathan Monk’s Origin Story: Poverty and Pentecost (02:08–09:18)

• Childhood in a Struggling Christian Family:

  • Monk’s father, a former musician in the booming Christian music scene, moves the family to Nashville hoping for a breakthrough, only for things to fall apart financially.
  • The family’s descent into poverty is exacerbated by prosperity gospel teaching, intensifying their shame and their need to hide their reality from church peers (05:20–07:30).
  • Early exposure to prosperity gospel: “...this theology of prosperity gospel and if things aren't going right in your life, it's because someone fucked up somewhere, is being permeated right there...” (05:30).

• Purity Culture & Deconstruction:

  • Explains living at the heart of the purity culture boom (“I Kissed Dating Goodbye”) and its impact.
  • Monk’s first “deconstruction” was rejecting Protestant cherry-picking: “...if I want my Jesus to be a little bigoted, I can contort him into that. If I need Jesus to hate dating, even though he's hanging out with prostitutes, I can make him do that. And I'm sitting there and like, I don't like any of this” (08:00).
  • The allure of ancient traditions leads him toward Orthodoxy.

2. Entering Ministry, Homelessness, and Activism (13:35–26:27)

• Bootstrapping a Ministry Amid Collapse:

  • Shares how his family’s crisis and exploitation by the church compelled him to help the homeless through religious channels.
  • Monk’s chaotic journey: "I picked up this homeless guy out front of [a church]... drove this homeless guy down to my parents house and I don't tell him I'm bringing him." (17:14).

• Arrest and Accidental Ordination:

  • Describes being arrested at a protest for countering Bible-thumper street preachers (19:58–20:20).
  • A bishop recognizes his activism, leading to fast-tracked ordination within the Old Catholic and eventually Russian Orthodox Church.
  • Critiques: “...Other priests are getting pissed at me. And I get it to a point now... because I'm not being indoctrinated on the same level. So I'm now at the same rank as them. But I'm starting to look around. I'm going, but why, but why are we doing this?” (22:00).

• Grassroots Food Programs and Marginalized Volunteers:

  • Monk builds a network distributing food to the unhoused, with the most help coming from “queer or strippers” after local churches refused partnership due to Monk’s inclusive approach (25:18).
  • Notable: First major fundraising support came not from churches, but from a strip club owner (28:02).

3. Conflict with Church Structures and Forced Exit (29:38–36:19)

• Communion and Queer Inclusion:

  • Pressure from Orthodox hierarchy during the Pussy Riot protests: “I'm being sent memorandums ...that we're supposed to speak out against this from the pulpit. I'm doing one of those, like, following orders type things. I'm saying what I'm supposed to say... but in my brain, I'm like, this doesn't... this isn't connecting…” (29:37).

• Shaming, Outing, and Suspicion:

  • The church exploits confidential information about Monk’s mental health, resulting in death threats and a coordinated campaign against his credibility, including Russian Orthodox Church involvement (32:08–34:13).
  • “They released my file that I have struggle with depression and suicide. And so I start getting telephone calls in the middle of the night that I should kill myself.” (32:22).

• Isolation and the Birth of Deconstruction Discourse:

  • Left the priesthood and lost community long before "deconstruction" was mainstream: “All the spoiled brats who are listening to your fucking podcast have all these books on deconstruction... That didn't exist. It was me and Derek Webb, like, that's it. And we're both really fucking confused and don't know each other exist.” (35:43).

4. Systemic Poverty, Exploitation, and the Modern Church (42:24–50:22)

• Critique of Church and Political Exploitation:

  • Churches prey on the poor (and foster poverty) through “prosperity gospel” tactics, paralleling gambling addiction: “They need people impoverished. Like, I remember my dad, and we were staying in a hotel... my mom was able to drive to Orlando to go to a conference with all these prophets... driving through Orlando seeing the Mickey Ear telephone lines and not being able to understand... why are we able to do this and not the other?” (46:50).

• Homelessness is Systemic, Not Personal:

  • “Homelessness is the easiest fucking problem to fix on the planet. ...We put people in houses. It’s that simple.” (47:22, 47:55).
  • “Everything is easy to fix. It’s a will, right? And again, the church controls that narrative. ...They are no different than the gambling industry.” (54:28).

5. Addiction, “Mouse Park” Study, and Manufactured Need (50:22–53:38)

• Addiction as a Symptom of Discontent:

  • Outlines the “Mouse Park” study from Chasing the Scream, arguing that addiction often stems from a lack of healthy community and connection, a cycle mirrored in organized religion (50:40–52:57).
  • “You create content, healthy, happy, whole people. The church goes away.”

• Visibility, Judgment, and Social Control:

  • “Drug use amongst the unhoused population [is the same as] the housed population. The difference is visibility.” (53:38).

6. Escaping Fundamentalism and Finding New Community (57:26–65:58)

• Leaving Means Loss—and Discovery:

  • “You will lose your family. ...But what they don’t want you to know is there is a space without shame. ...There’s a space where people will just love you as the little weirdo that you are.” (57:53–59:19).

• Certainty vs. Curiosity:

  • Both Monk and Mader reject leaders who offer “all the answers.”
  • “The opposite of faith is certainty. That typically my distrust for people increases exponentially if they are 100% certain they have the answer.” (65:58).
  • “I don’t want you to replicate what I’m doing... I just started just sharing my thoughts. I was very honest about, like, I don’t have an answer.” (63:43–65:30).

• Owning Past Harm and Evolving Beliefs:

  • “What part of fucking used to did you miss in that sentence [‘You used to be a man of God’]?” (68:43).

7. Stormy Daniels, Activism, and New Directions (69:22–79:23)

• Unlikely Friendship and Tour:

  • Details Monk’s collaboration and tour with Stormy Daniels, marked by mutual support, humor, and activism (“...people are really shocked when they come to a show, how little of it is centered around, you know, that asshole [Trump]. You know, because her life, she lived a whole life before that... she’s a world class equestrian.” (75:08–75:43))

• Memorable Banter:

  • Story about a “reverse cowgirl” joke gone wrong at a live show:
    • Monk: “I might be the only guy in the world who's ever denied sleeping with Stormy Daniels.”
    • Daniels: “Actually, you're the second.” (79:11)

8. The Future: Real Change Starts Small and Messy (79:29–89:24)

• Rejecting Hero Narratives and Seeking Incremental Change:
  • “It can't just be that we vote our way out of this... We have to make very conscious decisions of what we want things to look like. What community is going to look like being allowed to love complicated people.” (79:50–81:04)
  • On impact, hope, and building for the future:
    • “... There are people walking back into rubble [in Gaza] with smiles on their faces, with hope in their hearts, believing that they're going to rebuild... they are believing, but they're building towards that future.” (82:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Deconstructing and Authority:
  • “I deconstructed twice. For me, my first phase of deconstruction was going, whatever. This Protestant idea of this. I can make Jesus fit into whatever little perfect... I don't like any of this.” (08:00)
• On Compassion and Marginality:
  • “The majority of folks who are volunteering are, you know, queer or strippers that we met at the strip club or whatever. But I still think those people are wrong. ...I was putting on the gloves, but I was still putting them in danger.” (42:24)
• On the Real Cause of Homelessness:
  • “What causes homelessness is not having a house. That's it.” (54:49)
• On Leaving Religion:
  • “You will lose your family. ...What they don't tell you is then you go to Never Neverland. Like, then you find like the island of Misfit Toys. ...There is a space without shame.” (57:53)
• On Uncertainty:
  • “The opposite of faith is certainty ...if someone’s like, ‘I have a hundred percent of the answers’? Because none of us do.” (65:58)
• On Not Replicating Leaders:
  • “If I tell you [what I do], you’re going to go put that on the Internet, and then people are going to try and replicate what I’m doing... There’s certain things that I do because they’re good for me.” (63:43)

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Book Recommendations (84:10)

1. Where Do We Go from Here by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
2. Chasing the Scream by Johann Hari
3. Detroit: An American Autopsy by Charlie LeDuff

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Final Reflections: What Makes a Good Life? (85:45–89:24)

• Curiosity, Teachable Spirit, and Compassion for Self and Others:
  • “What a good life looks like, I think is... remaining curious, remaining teachable, listening. ...Learning to just say, I don't know.” (85:45, 88:25)
• On Pastoring and Leadership:
  • “Everything I just said is entirely bullshit. And don’t try and replicate it, like, you don’t need a pastor... I think if you just shut up and listen to people, you'll learn a whole fuck ton.” (89:10)

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Major Timestamps

• 02:08 — Monk’s early life, poverty, and roots of deconstruction
• 13:35 — Journey into ministry, early activism, unorthodox path to priesthood
• 25:05 — Homeless ministry and resistance from institutional church
• 29:37 — Conflicts with the Orthodox Church during Pussy Riot era
• 42:24 — Modern church: poverty, voting against self-interest, “prosperity gospel”
• 50:22 — Addiction, Mouse Park study, manufactured need
• 57:53 — Leaving religion, real cost and new community
• 69:22 — Stormy Daniels partnership, comedy, activism
• 79:29 — How “the way forward” will look—messy, local, community-based
• 84:10 — Book recommendations
• 85:45 — What it means to live a good life

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This episode offers a raw, insightful, humor-infused account of spiritual unraveling and rebuilding, centering the power of humility, curiosity, and radical acceptance—both for self and others. A must-listen for anyone questioning the status quo or searching for meaning beyond traditional boundaries.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

Father Nathan Monk is a former Orthodox priest, social activist and best selling author known for challenging corruption, advocating for the unhoused, and exposing the darker corners of American fundamentalism. Raised in a deeply conservative religious environment, Monk became nationally recognized when he left the priesthood to speak out against abusive church structures and to build grassroots support networks for families in crisis. He's the founder of several nonprofit initiatives focused on housing, insecurity and LGBTQ + youth, and his books blend memoir, theology and sar sharp social commentary. Today, he's the sought after speaker whose frank storytelling, compassion and willingness to confront power make him one of the most provocative voices in modern faith based activism. And I had the pleasure of meeting Father Nathan Monk at the Recent protests in D.C. organized by Cliff Cash and other influencers, which hopefully we will have several more. And I realize that many of my followers do not know who he is and his powerful story about challenging the abusive structures in the church. So today we're talking to Father Nathan Monk on Flipping tables. Thank you for coming.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Thank you for having me. This is a blast.

[Podcast Host]

This is going to be awesome. And I also didn't realize that you lived so close to me until we were at the protest.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Yeah. So that's actually really fun. I have moved away from Nashville as a teenager because a lot of the stuff that I went through early on with my own experiences with homelessness and etc. Was here in the Nashville metro area. So I sort of escaped here and had zero ambitions of ever getting involved in the entertainment industry or anything like that because that's what I had grown up around. And so, you know, that's been a really weird, bizarre, full circle moment for me. When did you move back I moved back to Tennessee about five years ago and moved back to the Nashville area area about a year ago.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, awesome. And I know, I know your story. I've read your work. I followed you on Substack for a very long time. But so I would love to just give people your story to start with. So how did you, like, I would love to talk about your childhood and what led you originally to the priesthood.

[Father Nathan Monk]

So that's one of the weird things about this adventure for me is I grew up in a very conservative house. My parents are from the South. My dad was a minister of music and was involved in the early contemporary Christian music scene in the 70s. And so by the time I came along in the early 80s, dad decided everyone else was making their way to Nashville, which was originally just the country music mecca. And then contemporary Christian music was starting to take over. And so Steve Green and Steve Chapman and all of these people that Michael W. Smith, all these people that my dad had kind of spent time touring with and knowing and whatever had all made their way here. And so he moved us here and we. My mom had more of a Pentecostal bent to her way of thinking. And so I spent a lot of time at the old Twitty City that became, you know, TBN and used to go hear all the prophets speak over there, from Mark Sharona to Kim Clement. Wow. You know, all of that kind of vibe. But my dad is still very rooted in like a Southern Baptist theology. And. And when he gets here, things don't go to plan. And so my family starts going through this sort of spiral that I think is pretty. A common story here in Nashville. People come here thinking it's going to be great, they're going to get the Dolly Parton experience and just step off the Greyhound and it all work out and marry some, you know, guy who lays cement or whatever, and it's going to be great. And that isn't what happened for our family. And so all of a sudden, he found himself doing session work, you know, doing the behind the scenes stuff for, you know, Andy Griffith and Amy Grant and all. And he was still waiting. When's that moment that.

[Podcast Host]

When's the big break?

[Father Nathan Monk]

When's that gonna come back around? And in a lot of ways, it was very, you know, frustrating and humiliating for him because he had gone from, like. He learned how. My dad was like the coolest motherfucker before I got here. I don't know, he, like, you know, flew a Cessna and, like, went to Germany and was on the set of the Hiding place, hanging out with Corrie, Tim Boone and all this kinds of stuff. And then, you know. And so for him, that transition of that was his life in the 70s with his own recording studio and all this stuff.

[Podcast Host]

And where'd he live? La.

[Father Nathan Monk]

He was in. Well, la. Yes, Shreveport, Louisiana. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so, like. And so, you know, he gets here and nobody recognizes that part of his journey, that part of his story. And so, you know, he's painting houses on the weekends and doing whatever he can to kind of get us by. And that continues to just crumble, which ultimately we're now going to this big, you know, Pentecostal adjacent church in Cool Springs. And they get really weird very quickly and we're on the verge of losing everything and ultimately do and start going from, you know, couch surfing to staying in hotels and motels, sleeping in our car in the Walmart parking lot in Franklin. Like, it's just continues to disintegrate into crisis while at the same time this idea of this early 2000s, late 90s theology of prosperity gospel and if things aren't going right in your life, it's because someone fucked up somewhere, is being permeated right there since then. And of course, we're also the guinea pigs of this new book called I Kiss. Dating Goodbye at our church is like ground zero for true love waits and all that kinds of stuff because apparently the pastor's daughter was hot and he was like, this is it. Like, this is how I'm going to maintain control or whatever. Our church goes through this massive church split over it because the youth pastor's leaving, because he disagreed. All of this crisis is happening, and I'm sitting there going, this. None of this makes sense to me. And so how I end up from there, and we can go back on any of this stuff, but how I tell people I deconstructed twice. For me, my first phase of deconstruction was going, whatever. This Protestant idea of this. I can make Jesus fit into whatever little perfect. Like, if I want my Jesus to be a little bigoted, I can contort him into that. If I need Jesus to hate dating, even though he's hanging out with prostitutes, I can make him do that. And I'm sitting there and like, I don't like any of this. And so I make this fundamental error in judgment of going, if I don't want to throw Jesus out. But I don't agree with anything that's happening around me. All of this seems to be missing something. And so my hop, skip and a jump That I take from there is I go, well, I need to find something that feels ancient. Because if it feels ancient, then it's probably closer to where Jesus was. And I end up stumbling into the Orthodox church.

[Podcast Host]

That's. I understand the jump, though, because it's like, well, where did this come from? You know, I need to go back further. I need to see what the original intent was. And there is something, I think, kind of soothing about really ancient traditions. Like, they feel better and more established. And for those of you listening, if you did not grow up in purity culture, I Kiss Dating Goodbye was like the pinnacle turning point book for especially 90s purity culture movement. It was all about courtship and the control of women. It was written by Joshua Harris, who is now, like, going on tours trying to undo the damage. Cause he's also deconstructed. But it was. I mean, I remember, yeah, True love waits the. I Kiss Dating Goodbye. What was the Beloved or something was another one that was specifically for women. And the whole premise of the book was essentially, the only way you're gonna find satisfaction in life is you make yourself appealing to a man. I loved that book. I thought it was the golden ticket. And now I'm like, ugh.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Well, and that's the thing that was so weird is, like, when that book came out, when Truly or not True Love, when I could stay in Goodbye came out, people acted like it was the second chapter of Acts. Like, it was 100%. It was.

[Podcast Host]

It was the Bible.

[Father Nathan Monk]

It was absolutely like. I mean, me and my friends, we would carry it around with us with our Bible as it. Like, we would be cross referencing, you know, Josh's words. And one of the big things I had to learn to get over was hating him.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Like, because I blamed him. And it took me until I got older to look back and go, this was a homeschool kid who grew up in a religious home that has a nightmare that his parents should have been like, no, you're not gonna get your life destroyed because you liked someone before you met your wife. And they're like, no, let's market this. And by the time he's not even old enough to drink yet, and they've turned him into this apostle. And when you grow up in the church, that's what you want. Like that. Like sainthood. Right. And so, oh, man, it really wasn't even.

[Podcast Host]

Like, he had never gotten enough. Because I think about how I was back in my day because I grew up, like, far alt. Right. And you, you're so indoctrinated. In it that until you start to encounter the rest of the world, you don't think any of it's weird because everyone around you is like that. Everyone is telling you this is all, you know. And I always tell people that when you're a kid, you don't assume that all the adults are lying to you, right? And it's not until you get to the real world and you get some experience, you're like, oh, wait, that's messed up. And Josh hadn't even hit that point yet. He'd never gotten out long enough. Cause he was, what, 19, 20, something like that. But it was really treated like scripture and completely changed the purity culture movement. So how did you kind of meander over into the Orthodox Church? And then what led to the priesthood?

[Father Nathan Monk]

So it was a. I did everything backwards. I joke that I walked in through the back door and everyone was like, wait, where the fuck did you come from? I had a number of different experiences that just sort of compiled on each other. I was in a rigorous state of studying in my early 20s, trying to figure out where I was going to land. I have been doing professional acting around Nashville. I've been in. If you watched a music video, a country music video in the early 2000s, I was probably in it. And so that's what I was doing. That's how I was kind of surviving. I was working at this little print factory, living over in Inglewood back when that was affordable. And, you know, doing that whole thing and trying to figure it out. And a buddy of mine invited me to move out to LA with him. And, you know, I grew up. That's. I think, the weirdest part about, like, the early part of my life is I'm living in poverty, but I'm hanging out with the Cyruses, right? So, like, my life is not making sense. I'm being told not to talk about what we're going through. My parents are doing everything that they can to conceal the poverty that we're in. Like, my dad's writing bad checks for pizzas, but also still, like, having my mom get her hair done so that nobody at church figures out.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, so the church wasn't aware.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Well, and then when they did, they took extreme advantage of it. Right. And so how so they would have my dad, like, they would help little ways financially. And then my dad just sort of, like, became indentured servitude to the church of having to do, like, stuff around, you know, clean things up, whatever. And so it's this constant, like, breaking down of him. You Know, And I think watching my parents go through that was how I start to decide. I want to get involved on this, and I have to. But if I'm going to be involved in addressing homelessness, I have to do that through the church, because I still haven't figured out that you can just be a good person and you don't need all of this other shit on the side. Right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

So I start doing a. My family moves to Pensacola, Florida.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, boy.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Yeah, so that was a thrill. My grandfather was a Marine, retired there. My grandmother lives there. So on my 17th birthday, my mom leaves the next day to go, she leaves. My dad, takes my sisters, leaves me and my brother with my dad, and she's like, I'm gonna go down there and try and start over. I can't keep doing this. So she moves in with Grandma, and when my dad decides that he's gonna follow her, I get left in Nashville.

[Podcast Host]

Wait, what?

[Father Nathan Monk]

How old?

[Podcast Host]

You're 17?

[Father Nathan Monk]

I was 17. Yeah. So I had been working at Gadzooks at the Cool Springs Galleria, and so if you lived in the area and you wore gncos, I sold them to you. And so I. I move in with my manager, who was the only person who knew what I was going through. And so I kind of call this my Timon and Pumbaa moment, because this openly gay makeup artist who I met on the set of doing all these music videos, and my, at the time, closeted manager at Gadzooks, both kind of take me in in the middle of this clusterfuck of trying to figure out what I'm gonna do. So I remember my dad comes up one day to Nashville and is like, hey, we're gonna go visit your mom. And I drive down there with him, and I'm about to turn 18. He's supposed to pick me up to take me back to Nashville. I call him on his cell phone, and he says, I've left you there. I'm putting my family back together. I'll pick up your stuff.

[Podcast Host]

So he kidnapped you?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Basically, yeah. So I get left in Pensacola. I don't know what to do. I start getting involved in community theater the second I turn 18. My mom still calls it running away. I have to remind her it's not running away when you're an adult. But I leave in the middle of the night and. And come back to Nashville, try and make that work. And finally, you know, my. I'm the oldest of five, and so all my siblings are living there in Pensacola, and I'm like, If I fully disconnect from my family, I'm leaving them by themselves. By themselves. And so I make the decision that I'm going to move down there and I'm going to start a ministry. I have no plan yet, right? I had picked up this homeless guy, I'd be going to this church that was in the old Planet Hollywood building downtown. And I picked up this homeless guy out front of there. He bummed his cigarette off me and he's like, I'm trying to get out of here. I want to go to Florida. I heard there was just a hurricane. They probably need construction people. I was like, yeah, well I'm leaving for Florida tomorrow. If you're here, I'll pick you up. And so I drive this homeless guy down to my parents house and I don't tell him I'm bringing him. And I remember I was actually talking about this the other day that about halfway through the drive I look over and I was like, he kind of looks like Charles Manson. And then I realized I don't like read the newspaper. I don't know if Charles Manson has been like let out or whatever. So I'm bringing maybe Charles Manson over to my parents house so he can take a shower. And then I was gonna drop him off at this park. And I'm doing this back and forth, visiting Florida while I'm still living in Tennessee. And about two months later when I went down to visit, I run into him again in this park and he's telling me about all the stuff that they're going through, that the local homeless shelter will only let them stay for three days, that they won't, that you have to go to religious services, all this kinds of stuff. And I was like, man, there's this whole other side of the homeless thing that I didn't understand because I only experienced it from a family perspective. I had never experienced what they were going through. So I decide to move there. On the day that I moved down, my brother was playing a concert and I show up and there's these Bible thumpers out in front of this bar and I make a little sign that says I'm with stupid. And I go and stand in between these Bible thumpers and I have this cop comes up and he's like, you can't do what you're doing. And we get into this argument, I, for whatever fucking reason have a copy of the US Constitution on me. And he like, in your pocket? In my pocket. And so I've got Bible thumpers on each side of me screaming Hellfire and brimstone with their Bibles open. And this cop's telling me I can't do what I'm trying to do. And I'm yelling like I'm reading the Constitution to this cop, and he takes my sign away. He's like, if you say another word, I'm a throw in jail. So I put my hands together like they're about to be handcuffed, and I took a step forward, and I go, does this count? And he arrested me. So the first telephone call that I have with my mom to tell her that I made it to town was to have her bail me out of jail.

[Podcast Host]

And what were they protesting? Like, what were the.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Just that people were sinners. Like, they would just go out in front of bars, strip clubs, while I.

[Podcast Host]

Was like, how dare you, you heathens yell and scream while I'm cheating with my secretary.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right, Absolutely. You know, and. And so I. I get arrested, and I end up on the front page of the newspaper for it.

[Podcast Host]

That's hilarious.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And so. But I have no plan. But they're now talking about, like, that I'm doing this, that I'm there to do this ministry, working with people who are on the streets, and that I had been going to this park, hanging out with this guy that I had brought down there to Florida. And so people start showing up to the park, and I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I have no plan. And a bishop contacts me from what's called the old Catholic Church. It was a branch of the Catholic Church that had broken away in the 1800s over the issue of papal infallibility. So the old Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church theologically have a. A lot in common. So I am originally ordained as a priest, and I'm skipping over a metric fuck ton, but I'm originally ordained as a priest in the old Catholic Church. And then a bunch of those priests end up being absorbed into the Eastern Orthodox Church. And I follow suit with them. So. But I'm, like, being on the job, training in the middle of all of this, because this bishop just acknowledges, like, this guy is doing something. He's going out there. He needs guidance. He needs whatever. Let's just. And. And looking back, I. I hate it. But they. They kind of are just pushing me through.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And. And I'm skipping so we can use this guy. And I'm so. I'm like. And other priests are getting pissed at me. And I get it to a point now because I end up becoming the thing that they're afraid of is that I'm not being indoctrinated on the same level. So I'm now at the same rank as them. But I'm starting to look around. I'm going, but why, but why are we doing this? Why is this? So I end up a priest in the Russian Orthodox Church because the Russian branch of the church in the United States is allowing for an English speaking liturgy. So that's where things start to really get off the rails because I'm doing all of this outreach stuff, I'm doing local activism. I, I almost get arrested at a city council meeting during a protest. Like, all this stuff and the gangster and everyone's getting really mad. They're like, he's supposed to be humble, he's supposed to be quiet. And I'm like, I, I'm supposed to.

[Podcast Host]

Advocate for the poor, right?

[Father Nathan Monk]

I'm supposed to be giving a. About this. This is what I was trying to do. And so one of the things that we got in trouble for was continuing to feed folks in this park. And to rewind a little bit, one of the fun things was I, as people are starting to show up to the park and they're like, what are you doing? One day I was there and this guy walks through, and I'm just hanging out with these guys smoking cigarettes as a priest now. And this guy walks through and he asked me what I was doing. I was like, well, I'm just hanging out with my friends. I'm just getting caught up. And he's like, well, do you bring them food or whatever? I said, yeah, but I didn't have anything today. And his name was Abraham. And he hands me $20 and goes, well, go get your friends some food. So I ran to McDonald's and bought like, you know, back then you could buy hamburgers for like 79 cents or whatever. So I buy a couple hamburgers, some French fries, whatever, come back. And that just sort of becomes like the launching pad for all of this. And so they try and kick us out of that park because that, that food distribution grows from like the original 10 folks to like 200.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And they're. The city's getting mad at me because they're saying I'm bringing homelessness in. And I'm like, no, you've, you've just never had to see it all. Yeah, they're here, they're here. These are all downtown folk. You're just, you've never had to see it at once in one. One spot. And. But then the churches are getting mad at me because I'm doing stuff like, we're making these, you know, hot meals, but I'm also putting, like, cigarettes in them or whatever. And they're like, so the churches won't partner with me. And what a.

[Podcast Host]

What a fucking petty. Oh, I can't believe it. But it's like the whole thing where they'll come in and be like, oh, we'll feed you if you listen to this religious whatever first.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right, right.

[Podcast Host]

Or we'll feed you if you're a member. That's horseshit.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Well, well. And the real problem for them is that now I am being trained theologically on top of it. So, like, they would come at me and be like, you're not. You shouldn't be giving cigarettes. I'm like, well, it says in Proverbs 31, before we get to all the cool, like, badass lady shit, it says, you know, it's not for kings, O lamuel. It's not for kings to drink beer. It's not for rulers to crave wine, lest they drink and forget what the laws decree. Give beer to those who are perishing. Give wine to those who are in need. Let them drink. And for their poverty, no more. It's not a hard, you know, jump to go or a pack of cigarettes.

[Podcast Host]

Like, give them some relief.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right? And so people are really getting frustrated with me. And then we're trying. The city's harping on us. They're trying to get us shut down. We're suing the city. I'm hemorrhaging. Like, we've got no money. We've got no plan. And I had just done a funeral because no one else would do this kid's funeral. He was 19 years old, gets stabbed protecting this woman in a domestic violence situation, and no one will do his funeral. And I agree to do it.

[Podcast Host]

Why? Why wouldn't they do it?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Because he was a bouncer at a strip club.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, for fuck's sake. Literally saved a woman's life.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right? But not the right kind of woman. And so I agreed to do his funeral, which is already a controversy. And I end up meeting the owner of the strip club, who was, incidentally, the first female strip club owner in the state of Florida.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Father Nathan Monk]

She used to be a cocktail waitress there. And one day the guy looked at her and was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And just sold it to her for, like, nothing. And so she takes over the strip club, and it was called Arity's Angels there in Pensacola, Florida. And after the funeral, I'M standing there next to her, and I don't know who she is. And she looks at me and she goes. She says, I really hate the church. And I said, cool. I hate people having to sell their bodies and exploit their sexuality to be able to feed their children. But if we can get over that, we can be friends. And she's like, dope. So we become buddies. And so I send out this email to try and solicit all the local churches to help us with this food distribution, because it's getting huge, and we don't have the resource. And somehow, I think because it was called Arity's Angels, she ended up on my church mailer list. None of the churches respond back, but she does, and she says, I'll do a fundraiser.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And so I do it. And that also ends up in the newspaper. And so I get in trouble for that. Like, I'm constantly in this state of. Of being in trouble. So ultimately, we're doing this food distribution, and this Episcopal seminarian reached out to me, and they. They had to do so many hours of, like, community, like, work to graduate. And so she starts. Her and her wife start coming down to help us. And so, you know, wherever two or three gays are gathered, there's a hundred more. And so all of her friends start showing up. And so we've got, you know, Booth down there. That was her name, and her wife are helping. And then we had big Gay Bob starts coming down, bringing down food. And, like, all these folks are. Are down there. And I get a telephone call one day from the diocese, and they're like, are you giving communion to gay people? And right around this time, Pussy Riot is doing their protests in Russia and getting arrested. Yep. And so I'm being sent memorandums from the diocese telling us that we're supposed to speak out against this from the pulpit. I'm doing one of those, like, following orders type things. I'm saying what I'm supposed to say from the pulpit, but in my brain, I'm like, this doesn't.

[Podcast Host]

Like, this doesn't work.

[Father Nathan Monk]

This isn't connecting. And then I get in trouble. And the bishop's like, are you giving communion to gay people? And I said, I don't know how I'm supposed to know.

[Podcast Host]

Like, how do I know?

[Father Nathan Monk]

How do I know? Like, they drop to their knees faster and say, thank you, Daddy. Like, I don't know how I'm supposed to know who's what.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Like, I'm just serving people. And so I get in trouble in the Middle of all of that, I lose my. My wife Tashina, because you can be married in the Orthodox Church. We had two children at the time. Her closest friend decided to make an early exit, so we're dealing with that. One of my very close friends ends up getting murdered, which I find out on the Internet.

[Podcast Host]

Jesus.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And I do both of their funerals, and I'm like, I missed out being part of their lives because I'm doing all of this, and I don't know that I believe it anymore in the way that I'm being told to do it. So I request a transfer because I just can't be there anymore. It's too painful. And so I get sent to this little town called Columbia, South Carolina. I'm demoted to an associate pastor. They're keeping a big eye on me. And then DOMA was overturned. And I'm in a private Facebook clergy group for the diocese. And at the time, the head of our vicariate was in trouble for having had an affair. But in the private Facebook group of the clergy, they're talking about how queer kids should just kill themselves and whatever. And I just throw my hands up. And literally, on the day that DOMA was overturned, I made a public statement denouncing the priesthood. And we immediately start getting death threats. We had to leave in the middle of the night.

[Podcast Host]

Jesus. From. From church members or people, like, leaders of the church.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Like, when you are ordained, you have to kind of basically make your own dossier, right, where they. You put all of your problems and anything you've ever done wrong and, you know, your mental health stuff and whatever. And they intentionally release this that I have.

[Podcast Host]

So they have a file on you?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Yeah, so they released my file that I have struggle with depression and suicide. And so I start getting telephone calls in the middle of the night that I should kill myself. One of the. One of the early things that happened was there was a. I had had, like, a YouTube channel and all this kind of stuff, speaking on, like, Orthodox theology and all that kind of stuff. And so this monastery in New York starts. Apparently it was like early Russian, like, bot farm. And they were going out and, like, trying to get everyone to unfollow me. They're, like, sending out all these rumors about me. They're trying to figure out where I went.

[Podcast Host]

Whoa.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And at the same time. So I get the letter in the mail from the. From the bishop, but they suspended me. They didn't defrock me. And because it created this perfect loophole that they suspended me, I couldn't fight them. In the same way, to be like, you have to prove why I can't be a priest anymore. So they put me in this, like, little limbo situation. And so that's when I find out that I'm in bigger trouble than I could have ever imagined because my name shows up. What a lot of people don't understand about the Orthodox Church, specifically the Russian Church, is that there's not a separation of church and state in Russia. So Vladimir Putin and the Patriarch are basically co. Equal parts. Like you have.

[Podcast Host]

They're the rulers.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right. They're the. And so what I did was super big in trouble because now they've got the Pussy Riot problem, and now they've got this American rogue priest. And so I don't even know at the time that Russia's now discussing, what do we do?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, Jesus.

[Father Nathan Monk]

About this guy. And I'm over here being like, I know everything and I'm going to tell y'. All. So I start getting called a conspiracy theorist because back in 2012, I'm like, I'm pretty sure Russia is eventually going to try and evade Ukraine. And people are like, that's nuts. And. And so, yeah, it's just. So from there, I had to figure out, what the fuck am I going to do? So I open a couple of homeless shelters, do that for a few years. But I'm also starting to build. Like, because the Russian church came after me so hard, everyone's now following me on social media, being like, who is this guy? What's going on? And I don't know who this guy is. Yeah, I don't have an answer because all the spoiled brats who are listening to your fucking podcast have all these books on deconstruction and podcasts on deconstruction, and all this stuff that didn't exist. It was me and Derek Webb, like, that's it. And we're both really fucking confused and don't know each other. Exist.

[Podcast Host]

Yep. And there is. There's no. There is no, like, deconstruction movement at the time.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And worse, I'm the enemy.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I'm the thing everyone's deconstructing from. So there's. I don't have a space. And. And let me clarify. I'm not whining about that. I'm just acknowledging that, like, anytime there was something and I would go to it, they're like, my pastor taught this sermon, and it really me up. And I'm like, I taught that same sermon, you know? And so, like, I feel like I don't need to Be here because they don't need to hear my problems. So I'm still being pastoral.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And how I'm responding to things. So then I get divorced and so, like, everything has fallen out from underneath me. I don't know what to do. I don't know who I am. And I just start writing, and that continues to take off. And I just started just sharing my thoughts. And I was very honest about, like, I don't have an answer. I don't know that they're supposed to be an answer. And then from there, started doing comedy, and that really took off. And then in the middle, end up getting connected with Pussy Riot and start doing work with them once they finally get out of Russia. Did Nadia's wedding a couple of years ago. Oh, I love that, you know, which was.

[Podcast Host]

They just get named a terrorist organization.

[Father Nathan Monk]

By R. Really a beautiful moment for me because I. I did preach that sermon that they told me to preach and to, like, be able to look Nadia in the eyeballs and say, I'm sorry. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Father Nathan Monk]

You know, and then her response is, I want you to my wedding. You know? Oh, my God. She's like me. You know, Like, I'm not. Not orthodox. Like, that's still my default. There's just not a space for us anymore. And so, yeah, it's just been. I don't know, hopefully that. Close your eyes, exhale, Feel your body.

[Podcast Host]

Relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Podcast Host]

That I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Podcast Host]

Oh, my gosh. They're so fast and breathing.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Podcast Host]

Namaste.

[Commercial Voiceover]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Father Nathan Monk]

1-800-Contacts. That's what you wanted to know?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's. That's exactly it. Before I move on to my next question, we're gonna take Our 1st of 2 Mid Show Sponsor breaks. If you'd like to hear these episodes without ads, you can sign [e-mail] montemater and get the entire catalog and bonus episodes ad free. This episode is brought to you by Ground News. A new Gallup poll released this last Thursday found a record 40% of young American women ages 15 to 44 want to move abroad permanently. More than double the 19% of men. The largest gender gap that Gallup has recorded. And this includes women who are married and also have children. There's many reasons, but two of the primary reasons for loss of faith in institutions. Younger women have experienced the steepest drop in confidence in national institutions such as government, judiciary, military and elections, which fell by 17 since 2015. Confidence in the judicial system specifically fell from 55 in 2015 to 32% in 2025among younger women, a decline possibly exacerbated by the 2022 Dobbs vs Jackson decision, though the general trend of wanting to move has began prior to the ruling. Now, as you go home and you're talking to your maybe a little bit more conservative family members, there is a very stark difference in how this poll is being interpreted. In a Breitbart magazine, they said, aw, they lost their prec only to have him replaced by the Orange Bad man and Slow Joe. They then proceed to go on to propose that Trump deport the 40% of women who want to leave, saying that he should throw in a $25,000 cash bonus to cover moving expenses, and he should also offer to cover whatever it costs to safely ensure their cats and battery operated appliances get through customs. And at the very end of the article it says america wins because we just rid ourselves of the most toxic America hating, useless, parasitic crybabying demographic in our now the language here is pretty extreme, but it does help us to know what people are reading. Not not just that we're getting factual information ourselves, but what information are people getting that maybe we don't agree with? And that's why I use Ground News, being able to go onto Ground News and see the factuality rating of each article, see who owns it. And obviously the language in Breitbart was pretty stark, pretty indicative of not being a great news source, but many people may not know or recognize that. And so for you to be able to go onto an app where you can see the quality rating of each new sour both for your news and also to understand what friends and family members may be reading. Ground News is an immensely helpful resource for that. And if you'd like 40% off their vantage plan, which comes to about $5 a month, you can go to groundnews.com tables to get 40% off. It comes to about $5 a month, which is one latte. And it is well worth not just getting good information, but also getting to understand what other people are reading. One of the things that stands out to me about that story is all the help that you're giving and getting coming from the queer community, coming from a stripper like an Owner of a strip club and all of the hurdles that the church put in front of helping. Well, you can only help if it's this. You can only help if it's this. And, and the city getting mad because I don't like seeing the problem. And I, I think what makes me sad is that I feel like that is so prevalent right now where the church has put so many hurdles in front of helping people. Like the recent. The girl on Instagram who was calling churches asking for baby formula with like her crying baby in the back. And how most churches were like, no, or we'll only help you if you're a member. And like, especially as someone who has been homeless and we see, especially in the conservative movement, this fight to not provide essential services, to give those tax breaks to the wealthy instead of providing. And most of us, almost all of us, are much closer to being homeless than we are to being millionaires and billionaires. What is your thought and feeling on how the church has really handled that? But even people buying in to voting against their own self interest.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I remember when I was still serving as a priest and this is one of the really complicated bits, right? The majority of folks who are volunteering are, you know, queer or strippers that we met at the strip club or whatever. But I still think those people are wrong. Yeah, right. And this is something I've talked about a lot, is I actually think that the Bible thumpers standing on the street corner were better than me because we ultimately led to the same conclusion. They were hitting you with a frying pan and I was using boxing gloves. And so I think it was a worse betrayal on my end because I was kind on the front end and.

[Podcast Host]

I still putting them in danger.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right. You know, and so that's something I've deeply had to struggle with in my time of exodus is reconciling, you know, that reality. And I also understand what a whiplash it was when I finally left. Right. And I also have deep sympathy for the faithful that I was their priest. And then all of a sudden I'm like very far away from that and they don't know what to do with that either. And so I think what happens a lot of time, to answer your question with the church, is they get people so convinced that these issues like abortion or whatever, or gay pride is going to ruin the family or whatever, that they get them to vote on these moral issues that do touch their life in some way. And they never. It's like the wizard of Oz, right? They never look past the curtain of like, yeah, I'm voting for these people who are going to stop this thing that I think is dangerous. And they're not looking past that to go. And as a consequence of that, I'm going to lose my food stamps.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

You know, and they also have done this really amazing job of making it seem like there's like black food stamps and white food stamps. Right. Like, they act like that's a different.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, those are different.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Those are different programs. Right. Or something. And so they could, you know, you can have somebody who is also using food stamps still talk about welfare queens. Right. And they don't see the connection. But I think the other problem is the poor is their bread and butter. Because there is no difference between what I saw my mom doing when we would go see people like Kim Clement at tbn. What she was doing when she would take her last $20 and drop it in that offering plate is no different than somebody buying a scratch off. It is the same thing. And so they feed off of the same addiction.

[Podcast Host]

And the same desperation.

[Father Nathan Monk]

It's the same addiction, the same desperation of, well, maybe if I give, then I'm going to get that bat sevenfold.

[Podcast Host]

God's going to bless.

[Father Nathan Monk]

God's going to bless me, you know, whatever that's going to be, you know, and I'm going to get that back at some point. And it's that temporary, embarrassed millionaire type mentality of, if I do this enough, we don't get mad at the pastor for being flashy and having his BMW. We want it, too. And this is the pyramid scheme. And so the poverty is what they need. They need people impoverished. Like, I remember my dad, and we were staying in a hotel and. And we really loved it when we stayed in the. In the little motels because, you know, we get to watch tv. And it was, like, wonderful while Disney was on. And it was one of those commercials where, you know, it's like the brother wait, you know, teaching the other brother about how to go to Disney or whatever. And I remember my dad telling us that when things got better, he would take us to Disney World, right? And it never happened, at least in our youth. But we kind of kept waiting, like, if dad ever says, we're going to Disney, then we know we're out of this shithole.

[Podcast Host]

We know things are better.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And I remember we never had the money to do that. But my mom was able to drive to Orlando to go to a conference with all these prophets. And, you know, and I'm like, driving through Orlando seeing, like, the Mickey Ear telephone lines and not being able to understand, like, what's, you know, why are we able to do this and not the other? And, and really it's all make believe, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Like everyone's just waiting for the fairy godmother to come in and fix the, the problem. And so they don't want to fix homelessness. Homelessness is the easiest fucking problem to fix on the planet. I ran a shelter in Fort Walton beach, which was about 45 minutes an hour outside of Pensacola, and a number of non profits tried to get me run out of town because we ended veteran homelessness in the first year of me being there.

[Podcast Host]

And what did you do to do that?

[Father Nathan Monk]

We put people in houses.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Amazing how that works.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Yeah. You know, and so, so we partnered with the VA and created designated beds so that they would know where they could find these folks. Because that's the biggest problem. Right. We created designated VA beds there at the shelter. And so they were able to find people and then they were able to put people in houses with the HUD Vash program. And so we got to what's considered functional zero homelessness for homeless veterans in a year. And people thought we were lying. And like the Homelessness and Housing alliance had to keep coming out and being like, no, really, we did it. And the reason we were able to is because we just were able to fast track this thing. It's that simple. And I mean, the math ratio of any of this stuff, it's so much cheaper to put somebody in a house.

[Podcast Host]

Way cheaper.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right. All of it is. It's a very simple problem. But you fix that problem and you don't have these poor folks who are voting for you who are putting money in the offering plate. These churches are using the Bernie Sanders model of it's not the people who are writing hundred thousand dollar checks that are keeping those doors open. It's the poor folks who are going there every single Sunday and putting their last 20 bucks hoping that something will change. That's the folks that they need. So there's no incentive to fix it.

[Podcast Host]

Well, yeah, and there's, you know, desperate people fill pews. Like whether that's, you know, because you're impoverished or because of pain and loss or because you can't afford to eat. Like, when people get desperate, even if they're not religious, they start, what do you do? You start praying. You start, you know, it was the first time I've prayed in my life. And churches know that and they exploit it. And I mean, we have so much evidence now of how rampant that is in the church. And it's this. But it's the same thing we see in the church that we see politically, where it's, oh, it's your poor neighbor that's the problem.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

It's not. It's never the rich guy or, you know, I mean, Joel Osteen's mansion is obscene.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Sure.

[Podcast Host]

And then the same guy who wouldn't let the homeless sleep in the church during a major storm, like, just. And. And what sucks about it, in my opinion, is, like, the teachings of Christ are so antithetical to that. So all of the good that gets taught there gets lost in the sauce because it's too much of an exploitative movement.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Well, and again, I think one of the things that they like to do is there's this great book called Chasing the Scream by Johann Hari. It was required reading for anybody who I hired at the shelters.

[Podcast Host]

Chasing the screen.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Chasing the scream.

[Podcast Host]

Scream.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And it's about the war on drugs. And. And he talks a great deal about how there's becoming less and less evidence that addiction is rooted in, like, a chemical addiction, which is what we were taught. Like, if you grew up like me, reading Cross and the Switchblade, right. There was no way to get off heroin other than the Holy Spirit. Right? Like that, sort of only God can read. Only God can get you out of this. Well, more and more evidence is showing that, like, they took these mice and they put them in a little container, and then they put heroin in a bowl. And guess What? The mice OD'd. Right. But then they built this place called Mouse park. And they had everything they wanted. Right? They had food, there's games. They were boy mice. They were grown mice making new mice. So they're all, you know, they're like happy mice, but they. They have water, fresh water, and they have heroin water. And what they find is the mice are only using the heroin water when they want to party.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, that's so funny.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And they're not ODing. They're not. Whatever. Because. And so when they extrapolated some of those studies out, they started to find that, like your grandma, she breaks her hip, she goes and gets miracle grade drugs or medical grade drugs, and she doesn't come out an addict most of the time. Yeah, Right. And there's this. That our discontentment is really what leads to a lot of addiction. Right. So if you do not have the genetic disposition to addiction and you do drugs and your life is generally content, you go, that was fun.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And I'll do that. Again, the next time I want to do that. If your life is discontent and this brings you a relief, the same is true for the church. You have a group of content people that are not afraid that the fact that they like to jerk off at night, those people aren't afraid. You lose the control. So you create content, healthy, happy, whole people. The church goes away.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it disappears. And it's. It's. I. I've never heard of that study. And I'm not surprised at all, because when we see that in poverty, right? It's like where poverty and crime and, of course, you know, the demonization of, you know, poor neighborhoods, but it's. It's all a cycle. You create the poverty, you create the crime, you put the person in the paid prison system, and you. You just repeat the circle. But it's a manufactured need, because you don't see crime rates, like, skyrocket. When people's needs are met, when people can eat and they can go to the doctor and they have somewhere warm to live, they're not out committing crimes most of the time.

[Father Nathan Monk]

There is basically no difference between the amount of drug use amongst the unhoused population and the house population. The difference is visibility.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Father Nathan Monk]

You see someone shooting up heroin in.

[Podcast Host]

The park in their house.

[Father Nathan Monk]

You don't see any of your neighbors shooting up heroin right now because they're doing it in their home. Like, the addiction rate is marginally the same. We just like to talk about it. I remember I was asked at a seminar one time, how do you fix homelessness? And what are the causes? And that's become. Now one of my favorite questions to ask people is, what causes homelessness? Homelessness. And people will say, drug addiction. They're bad with finances. They have sex addiction. They have this. They have whatever. I said, that doesn't mean that you would be homeless. I said, most occupants of the biggest house in the nation have all of those problems. That's not the problem. It's what causes homelessness is not having a house. That's it. And. And we could fix that housing issue overnight. I was talking to a real estate agent the other day. I haven't verified this yet, but they were telling me that In Nashville, there's four. Like, in the city of Nashville, there's 4,000 empty units right now. I give you a guess on how many homeless there are probably right around that. Right about that number. And that's why, you know, and so, like, all. Everything is easy to fix. It's a will, right? And. And again, the church controls that narrative. In the same. They are no different than the gambling industry. They are no different than whatever. And even when you talk about those statistics of crime. Right. Like crime in the inner city. Right. If you look at like inner city crime, whatever that's supposed to mean, a majority of it is people who are selling drugs, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Where are they selling those drugs to? So it's not about who commits more crime, the suburbs or the inner city or poor people or rich people. Is who's getting caught.

[Podcast Host]

Yep. Who's getting caught? And also who's driving the need. Like, who's driving the commerce.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

You know, and, and that's something I've seen recently online with, you know, conservative MAGA men talking about only fans. Like, it's, it's the poison of the earth. I'm like, you never had an issue with porn until women profited off of it. A thousand, like, until when women profited off it and they could do it safely and they weren't getting punished or getting STDs or getting beaten by a pimp, which you think they deserve because you don't think they're people, then it became a problem for you because they never addressed that the only reason the porn industry exists is because men drive the need for it.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Oh, a thousand percent.

[Podcast Host]

Like, the reason these women are buying mansions is because dudes are paying for it.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Like, but it's the same argument of, it's almost like a red herring, pretending that they're, they're mad or concerned about an issue while not actually addressing the cause of the issue. Who's driving this need?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Who's buying the drugs? And I mean, I think we see that, you know, as far as the war on drugs, the difference in the penalties between like powder cocaine and crack cocaine and things like that, because who's buying powdered cocaine? Right. You know, and it's just, it's sad and unfortunately it's, I don't know, I want to fix it in the US I don't know how we go about it when we have so many systems like mega churches, all these ultra wealthy millionaires and billionaires who are doing everything they can to make sure the system stays in place because it keeps them wealthy.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

But we also have a large group of people who are, who've been indoctrinated in these systems, some of them since they were children, to buy in against their own self interest. And religion is a hell of a barrier when they believe that if I disagree with my church, I'm going to lose my community. I'm going to go to hell. I'm going to do xyz. That is very hard to overcome. How do you see as someone who used to be, you know, in the priesthood and now you're out, how do you start to break down that barrier with people so that they will help themselves?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Well, you will lose your family.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you will. 100%.

[Father Nathan Monk]

That's it. Like that.

[Podcast Host]

Like that's a real thing.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Like that. They're not wrong. Yeah, like, all of those consequences are true. What they don't tell you is then you go to Never Neverland. Like, then you find like the island of Misfit Toys. You find the Lost Boys. You find that all those people are there. And what they don't want you to know is there is a space without shame. There's a space where people will just love you as the little weirdo that you are, that will correct you with love and gentleness. It's not that the church both doesn't have accountability, but also talks about holding you accountable. Right, right. But I get held accountable now in my real life friendships, but with gentleness and love and not with a desire to like, put you on the outside or withhold that love from you or whatever, but just genuinely be like, hey, man, did you know that when you say that that's what this means, you know, and whatever. And so, yeah, like every worst fear that you have exists. And the one thing I can't tell you is I can't tell you you won't burn in hell.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, none of us know.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Like, I don't know. Like, I, I can, I can show you why I think that is made up in the Bible. Like, I can show you historically how we got there. I can, I can theology better than any of them on this subject. I can do that for you if you want that. I can show you how to do that. But I have not been dead yet.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I don't know what happens.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I don't know. Maybe we die and everything that they taught is true. But you know what it comes down to what scares you more? Like, what ultimately scared me more is what if it's all not true and this is the only one that I got and I didn't do the fun stuff and this is just it. And, and one day I go to bed and it. And then I don't wake up and it's just lights out and. And I did nothing. And I have friends still to this day have done nothing because they're hoping that there's some more out there on the other side of the thing. And I just. I'm not willing to take that gamble. So, like, let whatever's gonna scare the out of you scare the shit out of you. You just gotta pick which one of those is.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And I also think that the. You know, again, going back to what you said earlier about prosperity gospel, where they convince people, well, if you give more, God's gonna reward you. He's gonna reward you financially. That's a really common thread. But also what it does, I think this idea of, like, treasures in heaven is this indoctrination of people to just be like, well, listen, if you don't have much in this life, still be grateful. You're gonna have so much more when you die. And so it. It disincentivizes people to fight for their needs now, to fight for a better life and to advocate for themselves now. Cause, oh, well, I'm gonna get that in the afterlife. None of us know. None of us know. And I actually did a. Recently, I did a. Like, just a kind of a theological scholarship conversation around hell because of how prevalent of a fear it is for people that follow my platform. And I said, hey, here's what we know. Here's what we know. Here's the history. You can make a decision from there. And my decision when I walked away from especially Christian nationalism was similar to yours, where it was like, my two things were, I'm not gonna go through my life mistreating and hating people. And then the second thing was, what if all of this is horseshit and I have spent so much of my life hating myself and drowning in shame and guilt that isn't even mine. I'm not gonna live the rest of my life that way. I didn't wanna get to my 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and say, what would have happened if I would have just tried?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

Couldn't do it.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right.

[Podcast Host]

That scares me more than anything.

[Father Nathan Monk]

That, to me, is hell.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And so, yeah, I had someone ask me when Stormy and I just finished up this last tour segue, because I.

[Podcast Host]

Was gonna ask you about your tour.

[Father Nathan Monk]

With Stormy Daniels, but somebody asked me a question. They were like, you know, do you. We always do a Q and A at the end. And they ask, like, do you go to church now? What do you think of this now? You know, it was like a three parter question. And I said, I'm not gonna tell you.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Because I've learned enough about leadership that I'm never gonna not be viewed as a. As a leader. Like, that's. I've tried Everything I can to run away from it, I. Or whatever, but I. I'm branded. It's just. I can't unfuck that. Right.

[Podcast Host]

It's like, I'm here now.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Yeah, I should have used a condom. Now we got the leadership, baby. Like, I don't know what to tell you. So, like, it's here. So I now know. And I wish I had learned it earlier, but I told this person, I'm not going to tell you, because if I tell you, you're going to go put that on the Internet, and then people are going to try and replicate what I'm doing. And I don't want you to replicate what I'm doing because then we have a pastor parishioner relationship and you're just replicating what I'm doing. There's certain things that I do because they're good for me. They're good practices for me. Like, one of the ones that I do talk about is I still pray the rosary. It's a good meditation for me. And at the end of the day, if anyone shouldn't be blamed for anything, it's Mary. So I can still talk to her.

[Podcast Host]

Yes. Or Mary.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Right. So, like, you know, if nothing else, this poor girl who got stuck in the middle of a God who had to unfuck what he fucked with, whatever complex issues he had to work out, and she's not the problem. And so I can still hold on to her in the middle of all this because I think she's just as confused as the rest of us or whatever. At least that's what I'm choosing to believe. So, like, I still do that, even if it's not ultimately connected to anything bigger, you know? And, I mean, I struggle with that, even with, like, now that I'm, you know, fully on the other side of it and I'm open about being bisexual or polyamorous or whatever. I still choose not to go into deep detail about that. One, because, you know, fuck off and it's none of your business. And two, it's not as interesting as most people wish it would, or I probably have my own only fans. But the other part of it is I try not to get super deep in it because I'm not the pastor of you being bisexual and polyamorous. I don't know. I don't know what I'm figuring. All I'm figuring me out. And I spent a decade of my life having all of the answers, and I am living in a season of delicious unknowing, and I don't want to have anything bigger than that. And so even in my theological takedowns on substack with my unholy shit series or anything like that, I'm not trying to tell you this is the ultimate conclusion. I'm just saying this is the data.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Do with that what you will. If you want to use that to argue with your fucking weird uncle on Thanksgiving, you knock yourself out. If you want to argue with me, please subscribe. You know, but, like, other than that, I just don't have. I don't. I already fucked it up really big one time. I don't. I don't want to do it again. And so that's where I'm at.

[Podcast Host]

And I feel the same, like, when I think back to beliefs that I parroted and promoted, and I was very much in, like, the Christian apologetics space, like, the Charlie Kirk type arguments, and I saw a shirt the other day that I need to get that says, sorry for what I said as an evangelical teen. And I've realized that the opposite of faith is certainty. That typically my distrust for people increases exponentially if they are 100% certain they have the answer. Like, if it's not something that you can verify with actual data, where it's like, hey, we know that, you know, something that falls. Falls at 9.8 meters per second squared because of gravity. If it's not something like that, if it's religion or access to heaven or hell, I'm immediately distrustful if someone's like, I have a hundred percent of the answers. Because none of us do. We just don't know. And to your point, I'm very careful online. And even, like, I teach these kind of like, they're more history, world history lessons than they are anything but. We talk about the Bible, we talk about books. When was it written? Who wrote? And it's the same thing I call my followers the Coven of Curiosity. Cause I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you what your faith should be. I'm not gonna tell you what. I'm not gonna tell you what I believe. Because I want you to start asking the questions yourself. Because I think the worst part about organized religion in my mind is we've outsourced faith and spirituality and wanted someone to do the thinking and the work for us. And that's really dangerous because then we get cult leaders, but we also end up with people who don't know who they are at the end of it.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, and it's always been something that was told to them to do. Not something that they discovered for themselves. And I have a lot of practices I'm sure people would find totally bizarre. But they spiritually work for me, you know, I'm a big meditator, you know, which science wise, is very similar to the effects of prayer. They're the same thing. But it's. It also becomes. I find that people. If you share your specific beliefs and people disagree with you on one doctrine, yeah, they'll completely be like, oh, oh, yeah, can't listen to him. Yep, can't do it.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Well, I'm at the fuck it all point now because, like, now when people do that, they're like, somebody got mad at me because I gave a snarky answer to something that was a stupid question.

[Podcast Host]

What was the question?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Oh, God, I can't even remember. I get too many of them at this point. But I. I gave a snarky response and they were like, I can't believe you did this. I was like, I can't believe you're shocked. And they were like, I've supported you. And I was like, the unfollow button is in the same fucking location as the follow button. Like, I don't know what to like, if I'm not interested in this. You failed this one little test over. I'm gonna continue to fail tests.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I'm a human being, man. I am. My favorite is when people go, I can't believe you did that. You used to be a man of God. What part of fucking used to did you miss in that sentence?

[Podcast Host]

It's like you literally just said it, bro. And before my next question, I am gonna pause really quick to take our second of two mid show sponsor breaks.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.

[Podcast Host]

Again, you can sign up to be an accomplice on Patreon if you do not want to hear these ads. So I want to go back to Stormy Daniels because I want more details on what the tour was, how it went. I just love this matchup so much.

[Father Nathan Monk]

So Stormy and I, we sort of have two different versions of us meeting. Both of them are hysterical. Obviously, like everyone else, I was aware of her existence, you know, after she exposes Trump. And I know what it's like to be drugged through the mud and whatever. So I'm keeping an eye on her on socials and whatever. And she is also a Southerner. She's from Louisiana. She's living in New Orleans at the time, and they get hit with Hurricane Ida. And she is literally running around town dropping off supplies, doing food drives, all this kind of stuff. And for me, you know, having done all that work with everyone at the strip club and whatnot, I'm like, sex workers doing food distributions. I'm activated. So I reached out to her.

[Podcast Host]

I'm in.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I reached out to her on the Internet and was like, hey, you know, if there's anything I can do, just let me know, Whatever. And she responded back, which shocked the shit out of me. And so we started talking online, and she now tells this story. But I was on tour with my first comedy tour, which was the Broom of Doom tour. And I'm in Tallahassee about to go onto a show, and I get a call. I don't recognize the number. I answer it, and apparently I'd given her my number at some point. And she calls me because she had just gotten served and they were going to lose their house.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, damn.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And it was her husband's birthday party, and she was in the closet asking me if I could give her last rights because she was gonna end it up. And so I talked Stormy Daniels down from this on the phone. And then I have to go in and do this comedy show and be funny, and I can't tell anyone, you know? And so I'm like, holding all this in. And so shortly after that, when my tour was over, I'm living in East Tennessee, and there's a strip club in Knoxville called the Mouse's Ear, and she was on a tour of strip clubs. She's back doing stripping just to be able to stay alive, right? And I texted her. I saw the thing on it, like, two or three hours before the show, and I text her. I was like, hey, I'm gonna stop by. And so we had never met in person yet. And so I show up, and I thought it'd be really funny. I've got this. I've got these fake, like, gag gift indulgences that I would sell on my shop at the time, and I brought a couple of them. And so I get put in stripper jail when I show up, because they think I'm a Bible thumper when they see these. These things, and they think I'm, like, a psycho religious person. And so they're like, have me quarantined. And. And so I'm like, I swear I know it's Jeremy Daniels. And they're like, yeah, okay. Everyone's, you know, so they. When she Shows up, the head of security goes out, and they're like, hey, you know, this is happening. This is happening. And by the way, we've got this priest in this little room, and he says, he knows you. We don't know what to do. And she's like, oh, my God, is it Nathan Muggins? They were like, yeah. She's like, no. They were like, he had this stuff. And they're like, no, no, no, let him in. So then, now I've got front row seats. And so that was how we met in person. And it was actually there, sitting on her tour bus, that she was like, you know, I had just started doing comedy, and then the pandemic hit, and she was like, we should do a tour together.

[Podcast Host]

That's amazing.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And so we went on a tour last year called the Tarts and Vickers Tour. And we had a really great show together in New York at City Winery. And so City Winery was going to have us do this big tour of all of their locations. And then we had a few other spots along the way. At the beginning of this year, everyone thinking the election is going to go in a different direction, and it doesn't. And that show goes away overnight. Wow. And so it both fucks us up tremendously. And so she decides to get back into it. And we went and did this series of shows. I hopped on it because my good friend Steve Hofstadter took over.

[Podcast Host]

Love Steve.

[Father Nathan Monk]

He's wonderful human being. And he takes over doing her booking. And he asked me if I would do a couple of the shows just to kind of get things launched out. And so we did that together. I think we did seven shows at the beginning of November. Had an absolute blast. She's one of my best friends in the whole world. We talk multiple times a week, you know, just checking in on each other. We like to joke that there's only so many people in the world who have either metaphorically or literally fucked world leaders. So between me and Vladimir Putin and her and Donald Trump, we have a unique space of commonality. And so she's one of the funniest people I know. Just naturally funny. We have a really great dynamic on stage because neither of us take our lives seriously at all.

[Podcast Host]

Cause it's pretty hilarious, like, on both ends of the extreme.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Yeah. Like, it's just. It's all really goofy. And I think people are really shocked when they come to a show, how little of it is centered around, you know, that asshole. You know, because her life, she lived a whole life before that, and she's a very accomplished writer, director. She's a world class equestrian. Like, people don't.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I don't understand so much. Like, she got involved in stripping as a teenager to be able to pay for the boarding of her horses.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And so, like, people wait, like teenager, like. Oh, yeah. She was like 17 when she first started stripping in New Orleans.

[Podcast Host]

That legal?

[Father Nathan Monk]

I mean, what's legal in New Orleans?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that is New Orleans, to be fair.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And I won't say how long ago it was, but it was a little while ago. And so, you know, it was, she's, she's lived one of the most fascinating lives, you know, and, and so, you know, I, I, it's weird, you know, because, like, people ask some of the most ridiculous questions during our Q and A. Some of them are just like unbelievably heartfelt too, you know, obviously. But I mean, people are always asking wildly. Like, I remember somebody asked me like, what my favorite of her porn videos was one time, and I was like, I've never seen one. Like, I've never. Like, I've never. Like, that's not how I knew her. Like, you know, and, and so, yeah, it's just like, it's very interesting. I mean, I'm, she's like a sister to me now. Like, I protect her. I will beat anybody up if they even fucking try. We were actually doing a show in New Orleans and we had a processor who showed up and got in and raised a fuss and we ended up bumping heads because I tried to jump on her to protect her and she tried to jump on me to protect me. We slammed into each other and yeah, she's just unbelievably kind, generous human being, but super funny. Very quick. We had actually done a show last year, Steve Hofstadter's Sunken Bus studio there in Pittsburgh. And the venue is amazing. You can tell it was put together by somebody who is on tour all the time because the green room just is intuitive and has everything that you would think to need. The only problem is it's up two flights of stairs. And she has a contract with I Can't Remember. It's not onlyfans, it's the other one.

[Podcast Host]

I don't remember.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I can't remember. And I don't have to plug for it so she can get mad at me later, but she had a contract with them and so she had earlier in the day had to record this video and she's now having to walk up these stairs in heels. And she looks at me at one point and she goes, I'm so worn out. She goes, I gotta retire soon. Just five minutes, reverse cowgirl. And I'm dying. So later, later during the show, she tells that story of our interaction and everyone laughs. And she always forgets that we don't have the same audience at every show. And we had a sold out show in Asheville, North Carolina, a couple of weeks later, like a 500 seat venue. And we're in the middle of the Q and A. And she looks over at me and she goes, well, you remember how worn out I was after just five minutes, reverse cowgirl. And you collectively hear the audience just like gasp. And I go, point of order.

[Podcast Host]

Really quick. It wasn't.

[Father Nathan Monk]

I heard the story. I was not the one doing the wearing out. And I look at her and I go, I might be the only guy in the world who's ever denied sleeping with Stormy Daniels. And she goes, actually, you're the second.

[Podcast Host]

Oh.

[Father Nathan Monk]

But she's just like fast like that. Like every, like everything's a joke to her. And it is to me, too. So we have a blast.

[Podcast Host]

I want to come to a show now.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Well, you can. We're doing one in Atlanta on the 20th of December of December.

[Podcast Host]

I will be there. I'll be there. I'll get the details after the episode. And in this current crazy climate, and you're doing activism as you have been, you're advocating, you're doing the comedy, what do you see as the collective way forward, Just in your opinion of, like, how do we get out of the storm we have landed ourselves in.

[Father Nathan Monk]

To prove that I am not a DNC shell is not just going to be voting our way out of this.

[Podcast Host]

It can't be.

[Father Nathan Monk]

There's no way, you know, because.

[Podcast Host]

And also, honestly, for the most part, especially with what they did with the shutdown, like, the Democratic Party makes me so mad.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So mad.

[Father Nathan Monk]

They're not very serious people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Establishment Democrats are too complacent.

[Father Nathan Monk]

No, absolutely. And so it can't just. I mean, if, you know, it's like the Animal Farm problem of you get rid of this leader and you get a bad leader, you think that's not true? As Katniss Everdeen, like, you know what I mean? That problem of I'm going to replace this bad guy, you're probably going to just replace him with another bad guy. Right. And so it can't just be that we vote our way out of this. It's going to be like we have to make very conscious decisions of what we want. Things to look like. What community is going to look like being allowed to love complicated people.

[Podcast Host]

Yep. Because all of us are.

[Father Nathan Monk]

All of us are. And, you know, I. I really get uncomfortable when people try and, like, act like, I'm great. I'm. I was part of the problem. You were part of the problem. Like, we.

[Podcast Host]

And intent does not negate harm.

[Father Nathan Monk]

No. Like, and. And it's all very, very true. And, like, I mean, I can sit here on this podcast to talk about the harm that my bishops did to me, but I was delegating that harm right back down to other people. And so, like, you could just as easily have somebody sit there and be like, nathan Monk was the person who hurt me because he preached the sermon that told me that I should be in the closet. And that is fundamentally true. And so how we learn to love complicated people, all of those types of things, the way forward, I think, is stop having expectations of that we're ever going to live long enough to see the good that's possible.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

You know, and I like to talk a lot about how, you know, we're. We're not as bad off as we could be. You know, like, I mean, there were people leaving comments the day that people were finally being allowed back into Gaza, Right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Father Nathan Monk]

And people were like, our country is a shithole and I have no hope. And I'm like, you arrogant son of a bitch. There are people walking back into rubble with smiles on their faces, with hope in their hearts, believing that they're going to rebuild. And when they do rebuild, most of those people will not live to see what it ultimately will one day become. But they are believing, but they're building towards that future. And so I think, you know, if you're hoping to live long enough to see all of the good that will happen. I'm not sure that the first female president has been born yet. I am also not sure that that person will be as consequential as we hope that they will be or affect the change that we would like to see. But when I sit at my neighborhood bar with people who are conservative and people who are queer, and we are learning to love each other and listen to each other, I think that probably is affecting more change than I will ever expect from my government.

[Podcast Host]

That's powerful. That's powerful. And I agree. I think it's. I think it's. There is this systemic activism and change, but I think that the most meaningful things happen in the small circles. And I think one of the positives that's come out of the Absolute shitstorm is people are learning to reconnect. People are craving community. People are learning. I have to balance what's coming out of this screen because it's disconnecting me from humanity and it's alienating us. My last two questions, the first one I like to ask people, if you can recommend three books you think everyone should read, what would those three books be?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Where Do We Go from Here by Dr. Martin Luther King? Because that poses the very questions that we're having now. And I think those are going to always be relevant questions. Just the premise of the book of, okay, but what do we do next? Right. Like, it's one thing to say that there's a problem, but we've got to constantly be looking towards the future. Again, Chasing the Scream that I referenced earlier I think is a really profound work on restructuring how we view all of it. And then Detroit, An American Autopsy is another one.

[Podcast Host]

Ooh, I haven't read that one.

[Father Nathan Monk]

It really looks at but the crumbling of Detroit and the corruption in Detroit and how that sort of indicative of the greater problem of the crumbling of the American dream and then how that collapse ultimately opened up opportunities for millennials to come in and buy buildings and make effective community oriented micro change and what that could possibly look like moving forward.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, Detroit has got a lot of optimism. Yeah, they really do. I was just in Detroit and I was very impressed. And my last question is, what does it mean to live a good life to you?

[Father Nathan Monk]

Ooh. I was talking to my son about this the other day because he was, he gets very worked up about, you know, all the drama happening in the people around him and whatever. And I told him that I really don't try and spend any amount of time worrying about all of that. I really try and work on myself. And I really think if you were to sum up even the gospels like that's, that's the point is it was never supposed to be pointing fingers at what everyone else is doing wrong. It was supposed to be what can I do to be a better person? And so I don't think that because I went out and I did work opening shelters or giving food to people or whatever, that doesn't somehow make me good. You know, I think in a lot of ways I was substituting therapy by trying to work out like my own trauma through that process. And so can you look at that from a certain angle? And look at that. It's like, oh, that was so saintly or altruistic. I guess you could if you wanted to bend it that Way, sure, yeah. But in reality, I was just trying to save my mom, you know, and so, like, I don't. Or figure out how to stop hating my dad, you know, or whatever. And, you know, the thing is, I found that. But that. But that somebody got fed. Sure. But I was working out all of that in. In the middle. And so what a good life looks like, I think is. Is remaining curious, remaining teachable, listening, like, even. And. And I think maybe one of the most difficult things for me is I used to be the type of person that someone asked me if I read a book. I pretend that I read the book. And I remember Tashina, my partner, said to me one day, she was like, I know that you're lying. And she's like, do you realize you're missing the opportunity to find out why that person loves that book? And learning to just say, I don't know.

[Podcast Host]

Yep, that's powerful.

[Father Nathan Monk]

Like, I don't know. And I remember. And I should have learned that lesson earlier because I remember that was when I was first starting out. I was teaching a Bible study, and someone asked me a question. I said, I don't know. And there were 30 additional people there the next week because somebody was like, this priest said he didn't have an answer. And that was more intriguing to people than anything else. And I. But again, I didn't do that because I thought I was being clever. I just didn't fucking know. And. And so I think it's that. And then. I don't know. I. I think maybe the most important thing is everything I just said is entirely bullshit. And don't try and replicate it like, you don't need a pastor. You don't need the perfect book. You don't need the whatever. I think if you just shut up and listen to people, you'll learn a whole fuck ton.

[Podcast Host]

I have absolutely nothing to add to that. So. Father Nathan Monk, thank you for coming to Flipping Tables. Thank you for your work, and thank you for trying to heal the harm that we both participated in and make the world a little better. I will see you on the 20th for sure. I'll be in Atlanta. And to everyone listening, I hope you take from this that ask your own questions, find your own way, and try to break the habit of looking to other people to give you those answers, because that's where we start to bridge a lot of these gaps and we can learn from each other. And I'll see you next week on Flipping Tables.