Rebirth

Summary

Floodlines: Rebirth – A Detailed Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Floodlines
• Host/Author: The Atlantic
• Episode: Rebirth
• Release Date: August 1, 2025
• Description: This episode delves into the enduring aftermath of Hurricane Katrina through the lives of those who survived and rebuilt their communities, highlighting personal stories of resilience, loss, and rebirth.

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1. Introduction: Van Newkirk’s Return

Timestamp: 00:50 – 01:18

Van Newkirk, the host, reintroduces himself after a five-year hiatus, setting the stage for a poignant exploration of the changes and challenges that have transpired since the original "Floodlines" series.

Van Newkirk [00:58]: "Well, hey, it's Van Newkirk. I know it's been a minute since you've heard from me here. Five years, to be exact."

2. Revisiting Personal Histories

Timestamp: 01:09 – 03:17

Van reconnects with Leanne Williams, who shares her family dynamics, including her mother Patricia, daughter Destiny, and cousin Tasha. The conversation quickly transitions to the broader impact of Hurricane Katrina and subsequent events that have shaped their lives.

Leanne Williams [03:14]: "Are quickly filling up. I'm not going back to New Orleans. So if you push us out, what's gonna be left?"

3. The Ongoing Legacy of Katrina

Timestamp: 03:42 – 05:55

Van reflects on the unfinished narrative of "Floodlines," emphasizing the continued relevance of Hurricane Katrina as a reference point for understanding current disasters and governmental responses. He underscores the deep personal connections formed through his reporting.

Van Newkirk [04:29]: "That rumor gets spread."

4. Personal Loss and Community Impact

Timestamp: 06:19 – 13:09

Leanne discusses the loss of her stepfather, Jeffrey Hills, a beloved tuba player and community pillar, and her brother Christian. These personal tragedies underscore the recurring themes of loss and resilience within the community.

Leanne Williams [10:28]: "Better than two years ago, you know, was. We still take it day by day."

5. Family Dynamics and Responsibility

Timestamp: 13:57 – 20:20

Leanne grapples with her role as the emotional cornerstone of her family, especially after the deaths of Jeffrey and Christian. She shares her struggles with feeling overwhelmed by responsibility and her determination to maintain family unity.

Leanne Williams [19:46]: "Nobody's gonna come to save us. I mean, newborn babies out there, they have dead bodies just laying."

6. Intergenerational Perspectives: Leanne and Destiny

Timestamp: 21:07 – 36:21

The episode delves into the relationship between Leanne and her daughter Destiny, highlighting their differing perspectives shaped by their experiences. Destiny, a resilient 16-year-old, embodies a blend of her mother's strength and her own aspirations to explore the world beyond New Orleans.

Destiny [17:07]: "A disaster."

Leanne Williams [22:09]: "I'm where I'm supposed to be. Exactly. This is where God wants me to be."

7. Community and Cultural Preservation

Timestamp: 36:21 – 37:19

Leanne expresses her commitment to preserving New Orleans' cultural heritage and fostering community spirit. Her efforts include organizing family gatherings and maintaining Mardi Gras traditions, which serve as anchors for communal identity and continuity.

Leanne Williams [32:35]: "I want to bring attention to that."

8. Dreaming of a Future: Home and Stability

Timestamp: 37:05 – 34:31

Leanne shares her dreams of owning a home in a safer, more stable neighborhood, emphasizing the importance of providing a secure environment for Destiny. Their walk to the levee symbolizes both hope and lingering fears about future disasters.

Leanne Williams [33:12]: "It's gonna take a minute, but I'm gonna do it."

9. Reflections on Rescue and Self-Reliance

Timestamp: 19:31 – 20:54

Leanne recounts her harrowing experience during Katrina, highlighting the lack of governmental support and her realization that she must rely on herself and her community for survival and recovery.

Leanne Williams [20:20]: "I'm not waiting on nobody to rescue her but me. I'm gonna be the one."

10. Conclusion: Symbolism of Ice Cream

Timestamp: 29:07 – 37:19

The episode concludes with a reflection on a poignant moment from Katrina when an ice cream vendor offered refreshments amidst the chaos. This act exemplifies the humanity and solidarity that often emerge in disaster scenarios, countering the narrative that disasters only reveal the worst in people.

Van Newkirk [30:33]: "The moment has always stuck with me as a symbol of how we misunderstand disaster."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Leanne Williams [19:46]: "Nobody's gonna come to save us. I mean, newborn babies out there, they have dead bodies just laying."

• Destiny [17:07]: "A disaster."

• Van Newkirk [30:33]: "The moment has always stuck with me as a symbol of how we misunderstand disaster."

Key Themes and Insights:

• Resilience in the Face of Loss: Leanne's journey showcases the strength required to rebuild life after multiple personal and communal losses.

• Intergenerational Impact: The dynamic between Leanne and Destiny highlights how trauma and resilience are passed down, shaping new generations.

• Community and Cultural Preservation: Efforts to maintain traditions and familial bonds underscore the importance of cultural identity in recovery.

• Self-Reliance vs. External Support: The narrative challenges perceptions of disaster response, emphasizing self-sufficiency and mutual aid over governmental intervention.

• Humanity Amidst Chaos: Acts of kindness, such as the ice cream vendor during Katrina, reveal the enduring human spirit that contradicts stereotypes of disaster-induced savagery.

Conclusions:

"Rebirth" serves as a powerful testament to the enduring spirit of New Orleans' residents. Through personal narratives, Van Newkirk illustrates that while disasters like Hurricane Katrina leave indelible marks, they also forge unbreakable bonds and a profound sense of community. The episode challenges listeners to reconsider preconceived notions about disasters, emphasizing love, solidarity, and resilience as the true legacies of such events.

---

Production Credits:

• Reported and Produced by: Van Newkirk and Jocelyn Frank
• Executive Producer of Audio: Jocelyn Frank
• Editor: Claudine Ibe
• Managing Editor: Andrea Valdez
• Fact Check: Will Gordon
• Music: Chief Adjua and Anthony Braxton
• Sound Design, Mix, & Additional Music: David Herman
• Special Thanks To: Nancy Deville

Support: You can support our work and the work of all Atlantic journalists by subscribing to The Atlantic.

Transcript

[Leanne]

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[Van Newkirk]

It's bad.

[Leanne]

All right. How you doing? Hey, how y' all doing? All right.

[Van Newkirk]

Well, hey, it's Van Newkirk. I know it's been a minute since you've heard from me here. Five years, to be exact. I'm Lord.

[Leanne]

My mom Patricia, my daughter Destiny, and my cousin Tasha.

[Van Newkirk]

Nice to meet y'. All. I done heard a lot about y'.

[Leanne]

All.

[Van Newkirk]

Nice to meet y'.

[Destiny]

All.

[Van Newkirk]

A lot has happened in the time since we put our floodlines. The pandemic started to really shut everything down, like the day we put out the show. And it's been one thing after another since then. There's been economic chaos. There were elections. There was an insurrection. There have been fires and hurricanes and floods. There's been a lot of death and a whole lot of grief. A lot of people live different lives than they did in 2020. Hell, I know I do. Five years ago, when I was making floodlines, I'd been thinking about Richard, the enslaved man who survived the hurricane in 1856 at Last Island, Louisiana. The next morning, the only building still standing on Last island was at stable. Richard and the old horse had made it. Many other folks weren't so lucky. I was interested in memory and what disasters reveal about a place. My reporting took me to meeting somebody who, quite frankly, changed my life.

[Leanne]

We'll have the trumpet player, the trombone player, the snap drum player, the bass drum player, and the two players will have sticks blowing.

[Van Newkirk]

Leanne Williams. You remember leanne. She was 14 years old.

[Leanne]

I had this crush on this boy named Fonzo Jones.

[Van Newkirk]

She grew up around Treme New Main street.

[Leanne]

And Fonzo was the point going living.

[Van Newkirk]

In the Lafitte housing projects when Hurricane Katrina came and levees broke.

[Leanne]

And we heard it on the radio, and the man was like. He was in a panic. I repeat, get to safety. Get to the Superdome.

[Van Newkirk]

She and her family went on an odyssey after the flood, and she came Back to a totally different city.

[Leanne]

3,000 people a day. Heading to Texas.

[Van Newkirk]

Arkansas will take 20,000 people, and they.

[Leanne]

Are quickly filling up. I'm not going back to New Orleans. So if you push us out, what's gonna be left? Just come look at things like a museum. Just come and looking at historic places and buildings. That's it. If you push us out, where the culture gonna.

[Van Newkirk]

If you haven't listened to Floodlines, I recommend starting from the beginning in 2020 when we put the show out. I honestly didn't know if it would matter that much with so much going on, but I found out that I was wrong.

[Leanne]

The breaking news. Stay at home. That is the order tonight from four state governors as the coronavirus pandemic spreads New York.

[Van Newkirk]

Whether it was the early fears of looting during the pandemic or. Or a black community being destroyed by a fire.

[Leanne]

Altadena, and this entire hillside is on fire.

[Van Newkirk]

Or FEMA's response to Hurricane Helene, the.

[Leanne]

Deadliest hurricane for the U.S. since Katrina in 2005.

[Van Newkirk]

And the people kept coming back to Hurricane Katrina as a point of reference. That rumor gets spread.

[Lowes Commercial]

You know, we dealt with that in Katrina, too, Laura.

[Van Newkirk]

As it turned out, this show about generations of New Orleanians contending with catastrophe, grief, memory displacement, and being left behind by our government still had some important lessons for the present. In 2020, we left the show's narrative unfinished on purpose. Leeann and the others we met, Fred and Alice and Sandy and General honoree were all still living with the legacy of Katrina and making meaning from it themselves. They were still living their stories. But also, as it turns out, I couldn't quit Floodline so easily. I'd become connected to the people I'd interviewed who'd shared their lives with me. I'd spent hours and days talking to them, eating meals with them, hanging out. I cared about what happened to them. Before, I had been thinking about Richard, but now I was thinking about leeann. After the show came out, I saw that she'd gone through even more tough times. I also saw that she was celebrating a new home, a new job, a kid who was doing well in school. So on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of Katrina, I decided to visit New Orleans.

[Leanne]

Look at her. We gonna tear them up. We gonna take you up.

[Van Newkirk]

Oh, no, I ain't lost in a minute. I paid Leann a visit and talked to her family and met her daughter, Destiney for the first time. When we last spoke, you were what, 11? 11 years old? And Leigh' Ann told us a whole Lot about you, so. And she posts about you on Facebook all the time.

[Leanne]

Look, what she mean always.

[Van Newkirk]

I seen the honor roll in. You got the. Yep. Congratulations.

[Destiny]

Two times in a row.

[Van Newkirk]

Congratulations.

[Destiny]

Thank you.

[Leanne]

I'm a proud parent. Of course.

[Van Newkirk]

Look, catch me up. Catch me up. What's been going on with you the last five years?

[Leanne]

Changed jobs. I moved. I'm in a different spot, and I'm in a different place than I was five years ago.

[Van Newkirk]

What kind of place?

[Leanne]

I'm at a peace state. Like, letting things go. That don't mean me no good. You know, I'm trying to just go a different route.

[Van Newkirk]

I wanted to know more about that different route, so I stayed a little while. From the Atlantic. This is a special episode of Floodlines, Part nine, Rebirth. It's Sunday after church time when we meet Leanne. We're trying to hurry up and talk so we can get back across town to catch a second line before it rains. We're in Leann's new home, and the living room is full of family. Everybody just shooting the breeze. She rents here and lives with her mother, Patricia, and with Destiny. It's a quiet street. What's this neighborhood we in?

[Leanne]

We in Pontchartrain Park.

[Van Newkirk]

Pontchartrain Park. It's a historic neighborhood.

[Leanne]

Yes, it is.

[Van Newkirk]

So last time we met, you were out in the East.

[Leanne]

Oh, for him.

[Van Newkirk]

So back then, in 2020, Le' Ann lived in a smaller place off a busy road in New Orleans East. She was working around the clock to provide for Destiny. It was far from the part of the city where she'd grown up, and she told us then how much she resented being forced away from the only home she'd known. New Orleans east was a tough place to live. After the floodwaters receded, it became sort of a holding area for people, pushed out from the core of the city by rising rents and gentrification. When Leann was living there, it was known for crime, violence, for food deserts, for pollution, for all the things you don't want when you're raising a little girl.

[Leanne]

I just feel like we just was forgotten about, pushed into different neighborhoods. And, yeah, the east is dangerous. It's dangerous out there. Don't pump gas at night, huh? You on East. Just try to make it home on e. The East. And a lot of crime is happening now, especially with our youth. When I was a kid, you could easily go to the gym, get on a swimming team, Duff, Dutch team, anything. They don't even have activities like that no more, so it's easy for the youth to get into things and get in trouble. There's a lot of carjacking. They doing that now for fun.

[Van Newkirk]

The east had felt like a magnet for tragedy. And sure enough, in 2023, when Destiny was around the same age Leeann had been during Katrina, catastrophe struck again. But this time it was a more personal kind of storm. Leann's stepfather, Jeffrey Hills, the man who helped raise her and who tried to protect her during Katrina, died suddenly in his sleep at the age of 47. Talking there in Leann's living room, the loss still felt recent and present.

[Leanne]

That was two years ago.

[Van Newkirk]

People say that's a long time, but that's not a long time.

[Leanne]

That's not.

[Van Newkirk]

Yeah. How you dealing with her now?

[Leanne]

Better than two years ago, you know, was. We still take it. Day by day.

[Van Newkirk]

The room got a little quieter. Everyone was still grieving. Patricia, Leann's mom, had lost her husband and partner. For Leanne, a father in everything but blood. Jeffrey was smart and he loved books, and he'd always taken pride in her academics. Destiny was his only grandchild, and, you know, he spoiled her. But Jeffrey wasn't just a cornerstone of the family. He was a special part of the whole community. If you were in New Orleans, you knew Jeffrey. He was a veteran tuba player in the city, and he played with basically all the big brass bands. He taught and mentored young musicians. I'd seen him play before I even met Leanne. His name gets mentioned with all the legends who've come through here, and just like it had been for them, for Tuba Fats and Kerwin James and all the rest, when he died, his comrades played in his honor. They played for days. And when it came time to put Jeffrey to rest, they threw a second line like you ain't never seen, all back in the heart of the Sixth Ward where Leann used to live.

[Leanne]

And when he had his funeral and everything, and it felt like the New Orleans before Katrina, his friends from the band, everybody musician, every musician we knew in a, you know, was there for him. And it was Jazz Fest time. A lot of people didn't go to Jazz Fest. They came, he had gigs lined up for Jazz Fest and everything. So a lot of the musicians didn't go to Jazz Fest. They came there for his funeral. And my family, always together, everybody was laughing, and it just felt like the Treme area that I grew up in.

[Van Newkirk]

It was like a trip back time, back when cousins lived down the street and they used to play Pitty Pat. It was bittersweet that it Took death to bring back a little bit of the old magic. But there would be more death before long, more people to grieve and more reasons to reminisce on the old days. The day after Jeffrey's funeral, Leann found out her brother Christian was gone too.

[Leanne]

My brother was staying with me. He died. He got killed two blocks from my house. As soon as he left from my house, he got his bike out the yard and somebody killed him.

[Van Newkirk]

Now she had to grieve her stepfather and her brother and to be a support for everyone else. All the trauma of Katrina, all the moving and all the setbacks, all the big life changes like becoming a mother, it had all forced Leann to grow up early. Christian's and Jeffrey's deaths were like a second growing up for Leann. What this all meant was that she would have to try to be the kind of cornerstone that Jeffrey had been. She felt like the family was being driven apart, and she wanted to do what she could to hold everything together.

[Leanne]

You know, I'm grown, grown now. You know, people depending on me and things like that. I gotta make sure our family get together.

[Van Newkirk]

Do you feel like it's harder to keep up with people now that you're spread out?

[Leanne]

Yeah, it is. We probably, you know, say a thing or two on Facebook with each other.

[Van Newkirk]

On Sundays like this one, Leann tries to get as many people in one place as she can to eat and chat or watch Saints games. And during Mardi Gras season, she goes all in. The main event for the family is Endymion. It's one of the biggest Mardi Gras parades. And every year, thousands of people march. It's a time.

[Leanne]

I made a Facebook page, a family. It's called Endymion. And we get on there, we say who's bringing what and what time, you know, who's holding the spots down. And we all get together for ndemie every. Since I was a kid and. And, you know, I just kind of keep the tradition going on for our.

[Van Newkirk]

Kids, for her kid, for Destiny. I know she's sitting right here, but can you tell us a little more about Destiny?

[Leanne]

Oh, my God. Destiny. She's smart, she's kind, very headstrong. I have a good baby. I do.

[Van Newkirk]

She sound like you? Yes, she sound like you. Smart, headstrong. Oh, you think so? Leann's mom, Patricia, is there behind me.

[Leanne]

Very smart, very smart. Just like her mom. Very smart. Yeah. I'm proud of her. I am. I'm a proud parent. Like, you know, you tell your child Things and, you know, they go in one end, out the other sometimes, but when they actually listen and do what you say, that's a blessing.

[Van Newkirk]

And we heard you told us Destiny just got your first job, right?

[Destiny]

Yeah.

[Van Newkirk]

How long you been working there?

[Destiny]

Probably like, what, a month or two now?

[Leanne]

About two months.

[Destiny]

About two months.

[Van Newkirk]

So what's that, two, three paychecks?

[Destiny]

Yeah.

[Leanne]

So far, three paychecks.

[Van Newkirk]

Three paychecks?

[Destiny]

Yeah.

[Van Newkirk]

All right. How does that feel?

[Destiny]

Good. It feel good to have your own money and buy your own stuff? I like my job, though. It's nice, fun, and then you meet a lot of people from like all over the world because there's like a tourist mall.

[Van Newkirk]

In a lot of ways, Destiny is just like any other 16 year old. She wants to get her license, she had a little marching band drama, she's spending those paychecks, she goes to the mall with her friends. But she's also dealing with things that will be hard for anyone, let alone a teenager. She's coping with loss and has witnessed her fair share of violence. Aside from the get togethers her mom organizes, she doesn't always have the same closeness to family that Leann did before the flood. It's like there's some ghost of Katrina that haunts parts of her life. It's eerie to see that ghost whenever she watches the old footage in documentaries. How do you think about Katrina? What's the first thing that comes to mind?

[Destiny]

A disaster.

[Leanne]

Mm.

[Destiny]

It's like when I watch it sometimes it'll be heartbreaking to watch it because you see the people, like with their family, babies and all that. It's hot. Nobody to help them. You like these people's really out here for days doing this, trying to get food, nobody coming to help him. Water everywhere, clothes sticky. I don't wanna be like that. After no hurricane. It was just a lot, like, a lot to take in, especially for the people I knew it was a lot for them. People dying. That's a lot.

[Van Newkirk]

Well, you look at those documentaries and imagine your mama going through that.

[Destiny]

I could see her. She's. I could just see her scared. Nerves bad. She already nerve wracking now, so I could just see her whenever it came.

[Leanne]

There after.

[Destiny]

Probably worrying my grandma, worrying everybody in the house. Yes, yes, yes.

[Van Newkirk]

Naturally, Destiny doesn't have the same fears and anxieties that Leann has. She likes to poke fun at her mother for being skittish whenever a storm comes around. But Leann says she's learned her lesson. She's evacuating every time. It doesn't matter how much Destiny jokes.

[Destiny]

About it, she'll leave. Even in some one category store a hurricane, she'd be so scared. We leaving. Let's go. We leaving. We ain't waiting to see if it's getting stronger or not. We leaving.

[Leanne]

But she never experienced something like that before we. And she never will. Cause we're leaving. I don't care what go through nothing like that again. No indeed. Then I have a child, so I know how my mom them felt. You know, I just remember my baby being scared.

[Van Newkirk]

Leann and Patricia walk through the floodwaters together. They have a shared story and shared memories that I'd heard before from Leanne. Now, hearing things from Patricia's point of view as a parent myself, helped me really understand just how agonizing it all was.

[Leanne]

She was the oldest and she had the most experience and, you know, she knew about it and she was scared, you know. You know, and stuff like that. When Hurricane Katrina hit and, you know, you know, I just remember my baby asking if, mama, we gonna die. And I said, no, we're not, honey. I said, God got us. We gonna get out of here.

[Van Newkirk]

In that moment, Leeann had come to understand just how vulnerable she was. It wasn't just the storm or the flood. The city and the federal government had turned their backs on her. It all left a mark.

[Leanne]

I said, they're gonna leave us here to die. They don't care. I said, I hear stories about, oh, you know, black and this and that and poor communities and, you know, these things I hear about. But to actually go through something and live it, that's something different. Like, nobody's coming to save us. I mean, newborn babies out there, they have dead bodies just laying. Older folks can't take it. They just dropping. I'm like, my God, this is real.

[Van Newkirk]

And so you said, never again to that.

[Leanne]

I'm not taking. She not going through that tonight now just in her mind to worry about something like that. So young to worry about if she's gonna die or if somebody's coming to save. No, she would never. Not if I have breath in my body. She not waiting on nobody to rescue her but me. I'm gonna be the one.

[Van Newkirk]

When I last sat down with Leanne, way back in 2020, I played her tape from my interview with the ex FEMA director, Michael Brown. So you tell Leanne I'm sorry, but you tell Leanne that her responsibility is to understand the nature of the risk where she lives and to be prepared for it. Knowing that somebody's not gonna come. The shining knight in armor's not gonna come and rescue her when that fear sets in. It feels like Lian's response to that is to become the knight in shining armor for everyone else, to take care of people, to make sure that her daughter and her family never feel abandoned like she did. I asked her if she saw Destiny's childhood as like an alternate reality version of her own one without that abandonment. You were 14 when you had to leave the city. Destiny is 16. Do you see maybe in Destiny, like, what that childhood could have been like without that disaster?

[Leanne]

I think about it. I used to think about it a lot. Like, where would I would have ended up with my life, you know, still be the same, or what I would have went through, off to college like my daughter wants to do. But now I'm like, I'm where I'm supposed to be. Exactly. This is where God wants me to be. You know, I'm where I'm supposed to be today.

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On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends, and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

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[Leanne]

It's crazy. There's no way in the world I'd rather be than here. I love it. It's my home. It's my home. I love New Orleans. I didn't been to Arizona, Texas, Mississippi after Katrina. Nothing like New Orleans. Nothing's like New Orleans.

[Van Newkirk]

One of the things Leanne talks about a lot is how much she loves her new neighborhood. She says it's safer and her street is quiet and peaceful, and it's a bit closer to where she grew up. It's better out here.

[Leanne]

Yeah, it's much better.

[Van Newkirk]

It's pretty out here. And you got the levee Right there. You was on the left in the east. So you just. You go up on both. You still go up there with daiquiris or not.

[Leanne]

We had wine. We had wine.

[Van Newkirk]

You had wine. Okay, so it's a classy establishment. We have wine.

[Leanne]

We have our wine. Night, sir. Look, I was with my bag.

[Van Newkirk]

Now, Destiny is the one who goes up to the levee most often, but to walk her mom's dog, an adorable French bulldog named Frenchie, no right tilt. Right up there.

[Destiny]

Not right here.

[Van Newkirk]

I wanted to check it out, so we took a walk together.

[Destiny]

You going by the even higher grade.

[Van Newkirk]

You going. It's not like the levee at the old place where you could climb up and see into the water, which Leanne loved to do. But up here, maybe it's best that the water is out of sight. The levees here overlook the Industrial Canal, where it meets the lake. It's a critical point in the complex system of flood control that defines New Orleans. In 2005, certain parts of this very neighborhood stood under 15ft of water. After the levees were overtopped, There's a new floodgate now built by the good old Army Corps of Engineers that's supposed to stop that from happening again. Leanne is not so sure.

[Leanne]

We sitting in a boat. Mississippi Pontchartrain. We just surrounded by water. We below sea level. So just imagine the water's on top of us, and the city just down here. The water sits like that. So that's why we below sea level. So it went. It's just going down. You can't go up. You're going down. So that's scary to think about, too. Where we live. We below sea level. I told you that before. Like I explained that to you.

[Destiny]

Now you see why I won't sit down here. That's another cue for me to go, keep moving, huh?

[Van Newkirk]

Destiny is kind of over it. She's heard a lot about Katrina from her mother. When she was younger, Leanne even made her sit through a class she put together for Destiny and her friends had a classroom.

[Leanne]

I fed them every bit. Lunch and everything. Breakfast.

[Destiny]

And during our work, they had their.

[Leanne]

Lunchtime, and then they had their time when their parents come pick them up.

[Van Newkirk]

So were you rolling your eyes?

[Destiny]

Was I.

[Leanne]

And one day, we had. They watched a documentary of Katrina and they had to write about it.

[Destiny]

Yes.

[Leanne]

Like, different things.

[Destiny]

My grandpa Jeffrey was in the documentary, walking in the water with my auntie.

[Van Newkirk]

Even with all the teenage eye rolling, you can tell Destiny is proud of her family story, especially of her grandfather and that brought Leanne and Destiny back to talking about Jeffrey, about how much he meant to them and how he represented what New Orleans used to be. They pulled up a video of his funeral and started reminiscing.

[Leanne]

The band came in the funeral home. Oh, wow, look how pink it was.

[Destiny]

Look at that.

[Leanne]

My pastor said, I never seen a celebration like this. My God. Oh, my God. The band come in the funeral home.

[Destiny]

Yes. That was nice.

[Van Newkirk]

Standing here in the grass by the levees, the sun slipping behind a cloud. We watched together.

[Destiny]

They had so many people out there and so many people in the room.

[Leanne]

When they opened the door, when they.

[Destiny]

Opened the door, that's when you really saw the people. All the people wasn't even in the funeral home. They had poo poo people standing outside.

[Leanne]

He was well known, a tuka player.

[Destiny]

They had 11 tubers out there for him.

[Van Newkirk]

It seems to me like they weren't just mourning Jeffrey, but also how they lived and who they were. It got Leann to thinking about her childhood in the sixth ward and to telling Destiny stories she'd already heard a hundred times.

[Leanne]

We just did that. If my cousin had a tambourine, we'll sit on a conda, and they'll just make a beat, and we'll just start doing, like, little songs and stuff like that. That's what we there with each other. We all say something, y', all, it's.

[Van Newkirk]

Raining, and then it started to rain. It's about, yeah, we got. We got to move.

[Leanne]

Oh, Lord. We don't want the sugar to melt, huh?

[Van Newkirk]

Hey, I got gel in my head. What you talking about? We split up and dried out for a little bit. I put some more gel in my hair. In the evening, we met back up with Leanne and Destiny at an ice cream parlor uptown.

[Destiny]

He's dressed up like a clown. The ice cream, I want to take a picture of it for the aesthetic.

[Van Newkirk]

Destiny did get that Creole clown clown ice cream for the aesthetic. So they serve it upside down, and.

[Destiny]

They got whipped cream.

[Leanne]

It's too cute.

[Destiny]

Yes.

[Van Newkirk]

I thought it would be nice to end my time with Leanne and Destiny with an ice cream. Back during Katrina, when Leanne was escaping the flood, after she'd waded through rat infested waters, cut her foot stepping on something sharp, and climbed up onto the baking hot frame. She saw a man with a cooler who handed her and her family ice creams.

[Leanne]

He said, ice cream. Ice cream is hot. I got ice cream. Cold drinks and water. Come on, baby. Get y' all something to drink. And I know Y', all, you know, thirsty and stuff.

[Van Newkirk]

She told us she got a strawberry shortcake.

[Leanne]

A strawberry shortcake, you know. You ever had one of those? Yeah, it's good. I got one of them.

[Van Newkirk]

The moment has always stuck with me as a symbol of how we misunderstand disaster and, by extension, what really happened during Katrina. There's still, even today, a misconception that disasters. That this disaster in particular brought out the worst in people, that it exposed some latent savagery or lack of morals. But what I've seen over and over again is that Katrina really showed just how much people loved each other, how much they loved their communities and their city. What was exposed, though, was how little the country and that city loved them. It feels like, in her own way, Leann is trying to rectify that. Do you feel like you are, like, the heart of the family now?

[Leanne]

Yes. And sometimes that get overwhelming. It does.

[Van Newkirk]

What are you doing when you feel overwhelmed?

[Leanne]

I pray a lot.

[Van Newkirk]

She's overwhelmed a lot. Being the person everyone else relies on is hard, and it can feel like every single thing is on her shoulders. She's doing her best to take up the role Jeffrey played, but now she understands how much of a toll that takes on a person.

[Leanne]

Just feel like I'm always responsible for everybody. Like, everybody. And sometimes I'm, like, who Responsible for Leanne, you know, having everybody back and making sure everybody is good. And sometimes you like, well, who, you know, has my back.

[Van Newkirk]

But she also takes pride now in the fact that people around the city know her and know her story. Do you feel like, you know, between us and all the other stuff, are you. Would you call yourself an ambassador now? For New Orleans, for the city?

[Leanne]

Yes. I want to put my city on. I want to, you know, bring light to my people, you know, in New Orleans, no matter what race you is or nothing. Because we family down here, and I just want to bring attention to that.

[Van Newkirk]

Leanne still believes in her city, and she wants to stake a new claim to it. She wants to own her own home in New Orleans. She's working as a phlebotomist and doing her best to support everybody and build up her credit.

[Leanne]

It's gonna take a minute, but I'm gonna do it.

[Van Newkirk]

So, ideally, what's your dream house look like?

[Leanne]

Oh, look, I think about it all the time. When I just see houses, I'm like, oh, my God, I can't wait to. To especially to have something that, you know, that I got, that I can probably leave my child, you know, something I can call my Own me and Destiny, we right by the lake. We love looking at those we just go through. Looking at us like, oh, my God.

[Destiny]

Like, oh, they pool big. They backyard big. That house so big.

[Leanne]

Oh, my God. This is living right here. We just. You know.

[Van Newkirk]

What color is your dream door?

[Leanne]

I won't say red, but I. Old school.

[Destiny]

Yes.

[Van Newkirk]

She wants a red door just like her grandma's house on Dumaine street had a big backyard.

[Destiny]

That's all she's.

[Leanne]

Oh, yes, indeed.

[Destiny]

A big.

[Leanne]

Gotta have a big. My family's big. I gotta have a big backyard.

[Van Newkirk]

She wants to be able to leave Destiny something of her own in New Orleans. But Destiny is looking at colleges out of state. So, Destiny, if you leave, do you ever see yourself coming back?

[Destiny]

Probably not. I probably come back for, like, events stuff. Probably like Mardi Gras and all that. But as far as coming back to state, no.

[Van Newkirk]

It's the place where mother and daughter seem to differ most. Leann was forced across the country and now across the city and has spent her whole life since trying to get back. Destiny wants to see the world for herself, to get out, and she's got the grades to leave. Have you taken any visits yet?

[Destiny]

No, I ain't taking no visits yet. They be emailing me and stuff for visits, but I haven't really taken none.

[Leanne]

They gave her $500.

[Destiny]

Oh, yeah. I had got to won a case scholarship for Mercer. It's at home in an envelope. Yeah, and if I go there, they'll give me $2,000 more dollars plus the scholarships I've been built up on when I graduate.

[Van Newkirk]

You already getting scholarships?

[Destiny]

Yeah.

[Van Newkirk]

She's saying it real low key, like, all right. But still, for as much as Destinee maybe wants to get out of New Orleans, she's got her mother's story with her. She might not know Katrina firsthand, but she knows the importance of taking care of people. Anybody tell y' all, y' all are pretty similar?

[Destiny]

Yeah, I hear that a lot. Say I personally similar.

[Leanne]

My cousin told me all the time, she was like, you. You hard on her. But she. She's really strong minded. You don't have to worry about her that you know her way. She was like, you need to give her more credit than what you doing. Cause she, you know, she's a good kid.

[Van Newkirk]

Do you. When people compare you to your mother, is that something where you roll your eyes?

[Destiny]

Yes. I be like, oh, my God. And you like, oh, girl, you act just like your mama. And how she acted when she was younger, but just a little bit more better or something. I was like, oh, girl, he didn't go with this again.

[Van Newkirk]

Leann wants to protect Destiny and to give her the things she didn't have. But I wonder if maybe she's got it backwards. Maybe her family has a thing that other families, rich and poor, black and white, need. Maybe they've got what other people are searching for. The things we lost in our own personal floods over the past five years. Family, community, and connection. We lost memory. We lost time. What we need is care. So how was the ice cream?

[Destiny]

Well, that was good.

[Leanne]

It was.

[Destiny]

I'm almost definitely gonna get that again.

[Van Newkirk]

The clown. The clown was solid.

[Destiny]

Yeah, he still got his eyes and his hat, but okay.

[Van Newkirk]

If I could eat dairy, you know.

[Destiny]

You can't eat dairy. You should have told me. I would have picked something else.

[Van Newkirk]

No, this is fine. This is fine. Look, between the dairy and the shellfish, I just. I come here and I fast. We finished our ice creams and walked out into the summer. And then Leanne and Destiny went home. Floodlines is a production of the Atlantic. This episode was reported and produced by me and Jocelyn Frank, the executive producer of audio, and our editor is Claudine Ibe. Our managing editor is Andrea Valdez. Fact check by Will Gordon. Music by Chief Adjua and Anthony Braxton. Sound design, mix and additional music by David Herman. Special thanks to Nancy Deville. You can support our work and the work of all Atlantic journalists when you subscribe to the [e-mail] listener.