Charlie Sheen Bets On Himself And Keeps WINNING!

Summary

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Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade

Episode: Charlie Sheen Bets On Himself And Keeps WINNING!

Date: October 2, 2025
Guest: Charlie Sheen
Hosts: Dana Carvey & David Spade

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Overview

In this vibrant episode, comic legends Dana Carvey and David Spade catch up with the always-controversial, endlessly entertaining Charlie Sheen. Taking listeners on a whirlwind journey through Sheen’s storied Hollywood career, the trio covers early stardom, wild years, iconic catchphrases, sitcom syndication, memorable near-misses, and what it means to “bet on yourself.” Along the way: plenty of laughs, never-told-before stories, career reflections, and heartfelt moments about family and fame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charlie & Emilio: Growing Up Estevez/Sheen

• Sheen’s Early Hollywood: Dana and David marvel at the unprecedented run Charlie and his brother Emilio Estevez had as young stars ("that has never happened in history. You both were like children...becoming movie stars like that." – David, 06:56).
• Home Movies & Childhood: Sheen reminisces about their “funky and cool” middle-class upbringing (33:03) and filming Super 8s with friends like Sean Penn and Rob Lowe.
• Emilio Cameo: Emilio makes a brief, unexpected appearance via Charlie's phone, prompting effusive praise for both siblings’ early careers (06:01).
• Friend Group: "We were all middle class... nobody was rolling, nobody was driving a fancy car." (Charlie, 33:28).

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2. Charlie’s Iconic Roles and the Hollywood Machine

• Breakout Projects: The trio covers Sheen’s legendary filmography—Ferris Bueller, Platoon, Wall Street, Hot Shots, Major League, and the monster sitcom Two and a Half Men ("It's kind of unparalleled how many movies he's made... and then he got into all the funny movies," – Dana, 04:17).
• Sitcom Days & Syndication: Dana explains syndication’s high-stakes history; Charlie elaborates on the unique "10/90 deal" with Anger Management, how he bet on himself, and why that production model was so intense (“It was a 1090...You gamble. And Charlie gambled and won again. And he got 100 out of it, right?” – Dana, 24:32).
• Walking Away from Huge Success: Charlie admits to actively trying to price himself out of Two and a Half Men as his passion waned and personal complications grew ("I was waiting for them to say, 'All right, we're done.' ...I completely lost a passion" – Charlie, 28:09).

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3. “Winning” and The Tiger Blood Era—Comedy or Breakdown?

• Comedy in Crisis: Dana and David suggest that Charlie’s infamous “Tiger Blood” rants were more stand-up act than meltdown.
  • “It's not the rantings of a madman, it's a comedian unleashed, you know?” – David (09:13)
  • Charlie confesses many now-famous lines (“winning,” “pick a fight with a warlock”) were inspired by athlete Brian Wilson:
    “All that shit was borrowed. That T-shirt you’re wearing, not my stuff. I just had to roll with it.” – Charlie (13:49)
• Media Concern & Authenticity: The hosts critique the faux-concern of talk show hosts and journalists (“You’re like, I have $100 million. Is it horrible right now? … Do we envy you or do we feel sorry?” – Dana, 11:26).
• Lessons: Charlie wonders aloud what would happen if he’d told the media he wasn’t okay: “How do you plan on helping me?...Do you have a guest room?” (Charlie, 12:19)
• Notable Exchange:
  • David: “Are you on drugs?”
  • Charlie: “Yes, I'm on a drug. It’s called Charlie Sheen.” (09:22)

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4. Hollywood “Almosts”—Roles That Got Away

• Regret List:
  • White Men Can’t Jump (originally for Woody Harrelson’s role)
  • Indecent Proposal
  • Karate Kid ("That bear ate me twice!"—Charlie on missing Karate Kid due to prior commitment to Grizzly, 39:47)
• Crucial Fatherly Advice: Martin Sheen guided Charlie to honor commitments instead of chasing superstardom (“Being a man of your word is going to sell you further than one big movie” – Charlie, 39:52).
• Reflection: “I kept waiting for Woody to send me some flowers and thank me for advancing his career like I did.” (Charlie, 37:21)

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5. Art of the Straight Man & Comedic Influences

• Sitcom DNA: Charlie discusses borrowing from Leslie Nielsen (Hot Shots) and Ted Danson (Cheers) to master the “straight man” style on Two and a Half Men.
  • “And some of that...I was borrowing, you know, a lot of stuff from Leslie Nielsen.” (Charlie, 43:38)
  • “It's hard to be a funny straight man like Andy Griffith was to Barnes.” – Dana, 44:27
• Praise from Peers: “To get comedic compliments from you guys is really badass.” – Charlie, 44:32

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6. Collectibles, Fame, and Childhood Dreams

• Baseball Memorabilia: At one time, Charlie was a top collector of rare baseball artifacts—Babe Ruth’s coat, Ted Williams jersey.
  • “If I don’t have room on a wall for this...I need to recirculate a lot of these artifacts.” (49:16)
• Letting Go: Eventually, Sheen sold it all, realizing the joy from sharing these treasures (“...just let others enjoy them.” 50:16)
• Nostalgia & Competition: Spade and Charlie riff on how childlike passions—like collecting or friendly banter—persist despite adult fame and fortune.

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7. Reflections On Talent, Collaboration, And Hollywood Friends

• On Working with Legends: Charlie remembers being “distracted” watching his dad, Michael Douglas, and James Spader act in Wall Street:
  • “You become an audience member and then wait—but you’re in the scene and shit, it’s my line.” (Charlie, 41:01)
  • Michael J. Fox: “Other level talent...tons flying off him and took it over to that thing [Two and a Half Men]” (Charlie, 42:23)
• Comedic Heavyweights: Charlie’s admiration for Nic Cage's zaniness and courage as an actor (“...rooted somewhere outside of what us mortals can grasp. It’s an insane and beautiful mashup.” – Charlie, 53:54)

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8. Hollywood Circles: Tom Cruise, Sean Penn, Rob Lowe

• Early Encounters with Icons:
  • Cruise: “In my mind, I added a Z...I thought he was a Mexican or a Spaniard, right?...There’s something going on here for sure.” (Charlie, 55:19)
  • Emilio & Tom: “Auditioning for The Outsiders at the same time...they’ve been great friends ever since.” (Charlie, 56:00)
• Styles & Legacies: Hosts and Sheen marvel at Cruise’s willingness to do his own stunts, his emotional acting, and musings on whether he’ll return to dramatic fare (“Do you think at some point he's going to want to get back to like a Magnolia?” – Charlie, 56:43)

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9. Notable & Hilarious Quotes

• Charlie on Winning: “Are you bipolar? I’m by-winning. I win here, I win there. Now what? This is funny. They picked a fight with a warlock.” – David recounts, 09:42
• Charlie on Comedy: “I've never heard it described as...a comedian unleashed.” – 09:17
• Charlie on collectables: “If I don’t have room...for this...I need to recirculate a lot of these artifacts and antiques and just let others enjoy them.” (49:16)
• Dana on Michael J. Fox (impression, 65:47): “Hey, Sarge. Hey, you gotta give me a minute on this here, Sarge. Oh, Christ. She’s just a farm girl, Sarge, what are we doing here exactly?”

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Memorable Moments & Banter

• Chair Bonding at the Fight: Charlie and David recount nervously wondering if precariously rigged overhead lights might fall on them at a boxing match.
  • “If that breaks loose, we’re clearly in the crush zone. Right? Are you cool if I’m the last guy...you interact with? ...I’m okay with it being you, too.” – Charlie, 64:02
• On Faux Media Concern: “You’re like, do you wanna babysit my kid? At a certain point, you start to go, are you really, really [concerned]?” – Dana, 11:26
• Hollywood’s Unspoken Rules: The tension between rooting for a friend and feeling overshadowed as careers diverge.

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Important Timestamps

• 06:01: Emilio Estevez cameo
• 09:13: Reframing Tiger Blood era as comedy
• 13:49: “Winning” and “warlock” catchphrases origins (Brian Wilson story)
• 24:32: The “10/90 deal” and betting on yourself
• 28:09: Trying to exit Two and a Half Men
• 33:03: Sheen’s childhood & home movies
• 39:47: Not getting Karate Kid because of Grizzly
• 41:01: On being starstruck by acting with legends
• 43:38: Borrowing from Leslie Nielsen & Ted Danson
• 49:16: Letting go of collectibles
• 55:19: First impressions of Tom Cruise
• 64:02: Fight night bonding over “crush zone”

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Overall Tone & Style

The tone is classic Spade/Carvey: breezy, self-deprecating, smart, and loaded with in-jokes. Charlie matches the hosts with candor, humility, and surprise vulnerability alongside his signature wit. The episode walks the line between nostalgia, legend-making, and a surprisingly nuanced look at fame, success, and the comedy in having—and sometimes losing—it all.

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For the Listener:

This is a quintessential “Fly on the Wall” episode: hilarious, insider, revealing, and unexpectedly poignant—a treat for fans of comedy, Hollywood, or Charlie Sheen’s wild ride.

“I’d like to believe that I get invited back, that’d be amazing.”
– Charlie Sheen, 63:09

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[C]

Quince.comFly he came back talking about this guy named Tom Cruise. Oh, in my mind I added a Z and I thought he was Latin. I thought he was a Mexican or a Spaniard or something. Right. It was, it was. It just comes out warlock or bust.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I said to Dave, I said, if that, if that breaks loose, we're clearly in the crush zone. Right. And I said, are you cool if I'm the last guy like on this planet that you interact with?

[A]

Charlie Sheen.

[B]

Charlie Sheen, the one and only.

[A]

Internationally known as God is my Witness.

[B]

I don't know what that means.

[A]

You need a witness for that? For what?

[B]

I just got. It's just a figure speech. Charlie Sheen, what a career. Yeah.

[A]

Huge movies. You were talking about his run of movies, like from 21 years old. I think he popped into Ferris Bueller with a cameo. Just a good looking burnout dude.

[B]

Did one scene and stood out.

[A]

Yeah, I think he stayed up all night for that. To show that he was a guy that stayed up all night.

[B]

Yes. And when you're 19, you stay up all night. It's not a massive. It's not a big deal. Yeah, he's wasted.

[A]

Yeah. But I guess he. I think with Charlie, when he went off the rails a little bit, was too much fame, too good looking and too rich. It's just. You get everything you want. It's a very odd. I don't know the feeling. It's very odd being medium rich, medium looking and mediumness across the board. It's different. So, yeah, he just has everything. All girls are falling at his feet and he's got drugs wherever he goes and every celebrity wants to hang out with him.

[B]

So, yeah, huge movie star. Every time he's 21, he's doing wall Street. It really, it's kind of unparalleled how many movies he's made. And Platoon, such a young age. Platoon. And just. Yeah, and then he got into all the funny movies, you know, Hot Shots. Hot shots, yeah.

[A]

Major league. There's like so many to talk about.

[B]

And then he does this massive sitcom, Two and a Half Men, one of the. One of the last ones of that.

[A]

Kind of big audience, syndicated fat money. And then he. He really. And there's no real limits. He doesn't care what we ask him. And he was pretty funny. We were light and loose with them and we couldn't do it in person because I think all of us were sick. Remember?

[C]

Right.

[B]

I was great. I was full Covid. Yeah, Yeah. I. I enjoyed this one a lot with Charlie Sheen. I found him really charming. I know he's had a lot of rough times in his life, but the guy I met on the Zoom Is a real charming, humble, nice guy. Yeah, and funny, too.

[A]

You decide, folks.

[B]

Here, you decide and give us your comments. Here comes here. Okay, what song is this, Charlie, what song? Here he comes again. Looking bad or what is that Dolly?

[A]

My body has a right to.

[C]

I. I don't rec. I don't recognize it.

[B]

Here he comes again. All right, so our producer said he. Here he comes. So I just.

[C]

Okay. Yeah, I think we're good. Awesome. Thank you, bro.

[A]

Thank you, Charlie. This is a great place if you're a termite.

[C]

That's Emilio Estevez right there.

[B]

Wait, can he hang out for. Because that was my first thing I wanted to.

[C]

They're asking for you, dude.

[A]

Emilio, you won't remember me.

[C]

Do you mind? What?

[B]

This was one of my things because I wanted to not bore the.

[A]

Out of you.

[B]

Emilio, I just wanna. You're in my research. I'm not making this up. I was like. Because I was like, holy. I saw the doc. I saw you guys doing all little Super Eights and all that. And then you're fucking. You do. You got. There's Red dawn, but you do Platoon, Ferris Bueller, Wall Street, Major League Brother, does the Outsiders. Repo man, which I is a personal favorite. Breakfast Club, Sandals, Fire. And then you connect with Young Guns. So what the. That has never happened in history. You both were like children. Little tiny kids becoming movie stars like that. Anyway, that's why. That's all I wanted.

[A]

Emilio, we just want to tell you. You're a fucking stud.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you guys are like.

[C]

He. He. He can't hear you because I'm on the. On the phone.

[A]

We gave him 100 compliments, and now.

[C]

He gave you 100 compliments. And it was all love. And it was about the breadth. The breadth of our. Of our combined films in that. In that time frame. And he said. Then we did all that. We're giant movie stars as children.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So.

[B]

We were all the same. I was a waiter till I was 24. What do you tell him that?

[C]

He said he was a waiter till he was 24.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Wasn't in that boat anyway.

[A]

All right, Emilio, sorry, we can't hear you, but nice to see you, buddy.

[C]

Thank you, bro. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[A]

It's great to see him. That's cool.

[B]

That's. That's cool. That's a treat.

[A]

That was most of your time, Charlie.

[B]

That was most of our time. We look better in person. Don't think of this. What you're seeing now. We are. We're pretty good looking. David and I, you know, I just.

[A]

Saw Charlie at the fight.

[C]

Yeah, that was pretty, that was pretty cool, wasn't it?

[A]

You know what, Let me tell you, I'll tell Dana. The funniest thing you said is right when I said Michael Irvin had his legs wrapped around your chair talking to someone behind him. And you go, I don't think Michael Irwin knows spatial awareness.

[C]

I mean, it was, it was, it was an astute observation, wasn't it?

[A]

It was perfect because the chairs were this wide, right? They were little plastic chairs. I go, ted, Saran is in front of you. I was like, ted, I want to talk to you about the shitty chairs. When you get one second, it's too late now, but maybe for the next one. And they were all tied together with zip tied.

[C]

They were zip tied together. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, spatial awareness is a funny word. Word by funny, what you're doing, Charlie, when it comes to comedy. That was funny. You could have said it in a lot of different ways, but racial awareness, because we're stand ups, you know, that's all we do. So basically. Well, he's a film star, but yeah, you're a comedian. You know, just, I was looking at some of your rants. We can go wherever you want. But they're all really funny. That's what really struck me about that era of tiger blood and everything.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

I mean they're, they're comedically like, I'm.

[A]

Sure other people funny on top of everything else.

[B]

It's not the rantings of a madman, it's a comedian unleashed, you know?

[C]

Yeah, wow.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I, I, I've never heard it described as such. That's.

[B]

Are you on drugs? Yes, I'm on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. That's like rhythmic. And, and how are you doing winning? Not just I'm winning, by the way.

[A]

These jokes are to like Katie Kirk or this the most flat audience, Savannah Guthrie going, huh? You have a bit, a lot of problems in your life. You're like, or do I? I'm on coke.

[B]

And they're like, well, you're laying down magic. You didn't even know at the time. Because the, the whole idea, which magic. In therapy, they should use these quotes because they're funny and they're self affirming. They're kind of saying, you get out of my way. We all want to have that feeling sometimes. But I looked at them as the work of a comedian. I mean they're just really. Are you bipolar? I'm by winning, I win here, I win there. Now what this is funny. They picked a fight with a warlock. You know, I mean, it's. It's just funny. I don't know if anyone is. I. We're trying to think of stuff that you haven't been asked because I know this is your second interview around the Book of Sheen. You've done one interview and then this, and then this.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So we wanted to surprise you, but of course, there are things I wanted to talk about. That's one of them. But, David, do you have any questions?

[A]

Go ahead. Charlie has a quick question.

[C]

I just want to point something out. If I say you've picked a fight with a warlock, right. That's like. That implies that I would have experience with that or I'd have some kind of perspective or context with that. Right. I've never picked a fight with a warlock. No, I think that's kind of just a life rule that you don't. You see a warlock, you don't pick a fight, you know?

[A]

No.

[B]

And we all know. I don't even know specifically what my image is, but warlock kind of means like some sort of weird mythological creature you don't want to go near.

[C]

Exactly. Exactly.

[B]

Did you have. Did you have any alt. Did you had an alternative to warlock or. That was just. Boom, they picked it was.

[C]

It just comes out warlock or bust.

[A]

Yeah, he's got the phrases that are very catchy, but no one has ever heard.

[B]

Do you own these? No, they're all online.

[C]

They're so fun.

[A]

Charlie, part of it is when you're in these interviews and I watch these people with a lot of it, unfortunately, is fake concern for you. You know what I mean? They're like, hey, are you okay? And you're like, what do you give a shit? Do you really care? You're like, are you calling the kids every night? And you're like, do you want to babysit my kid? At a certain point, you start to go, are you really, really? If you really care, I'll tell you these answers. But you're kind of trying to get a pickup piece for your kids clip for the news or for your show. And so you're using me to go, oh, I'm going to be the concerned person condescendingly asking Charlie, you're like, I have $100 million. Is it horrible right now? And that's. That's kind of a weird place to be in where they're like, do we envy you or do we feel sorry? You know, because you had a lot going.

[C]

Yeah, no, but, but, but when somebody poses Those questions. What do you think would have happened if I had said I'm. I'm not. And how. How do you plan on helping me?

[A]

Yeah. What are you doing?

[C]

Like, do you have a guest room? Do you have. Yeah. Do you have a. Do you have a stocked fridge?

[B]

Is there crudite anywhere that I could have access?

[C]

Any. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's like Facebook moms putting on Facebook. I don't. Like when you showed a picture of your kid in the front seat. You should never. Like, what do you care? You really. You really that worried? Anyway, we got so much to talk to Charlie about.

[B]

I also want to just insert one thing on winning. And also, the way you said winning, winning, you know, did that influence Trump kind of. Because he really works a word and he really. You're going to be winning so much. You're going to win. You win. I don't know. There is something about that word there. Did you win? Yeah, I went. I'm winning. I'm winning more. You know, I don't know. It's just interesting interaction, historically. But who knows, right?

[C]

But the. But the book gets into the genesis of that material.

[B]

Oh, that's what I'm so happy to hear. The Book of Sheen.

[C]

Yeah. Thank you. And it's. You know, I kind of kept it a secret for years that it wasn't my original material, that it was inserted into my brain sort of as a pep talk, like a couple days earlier by a baseball player from the Giants named Brian Wilson. A guy nicknamed the Beard. Remember the Beard?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

So, yeah, I was watching a highlight package of his, and I told my pal Tony Todd, I said, hey, I'm gonna talk to that dude. And the next day, I was on the phone, and he just rolled out all that stuff. The stuff that. The material that turned into slogans and T shirts and folk songs and everything else. Right. And so, yeah, but then I couldn't really say in the middle of that whole tsunami that I was cresting on a nuclear surfboard. Right. I couldn't say, by the way, all that shit was borrowed. That T shirt you're wearing, not my stuff. I just had to roll with it. And then about midway through all the chaos, I spoke to him and I said, hey, man, I'm sorry. I feel like I stole your stuff and maybe you had plans to use it elsewhere. And he said, no, no, no, it's fine. It's. I said, and you're probably thinking that you got it into the wrong brain and hence the wrong mouth. And he was like, well, you know, it's. I never quite saw it going this far, but if someone's going to borrow your material, then spread the love. Why not?

[B]

Well, yeah, because it was the timing in the way you delivered it. We all had.

[A]

And it's you saying it on.

[B]

All over the place. It's you saying it in the rhythm. I don't know if he was. Because that was your rhythm. Right.

[C]

You know, the winning thing was originally delivered with that inflection, with the high pitch to winning. Winning, yeah, yeah, I know. And that's why it's. It got logged in there like that. So his material. But then I think through my filters and through whatever else was going on, it became what it did.

[B]

Right, because he was being interviewed sometimes by contrarians or whatever, trying to talk to you, and you were just coming back with something so extremely different than anyone would expect. That that was part of the comedy of it. I don't know if he had people interviewing him, you know, in that way.

[A]

But it's interesting also, losing isn't quite as catchy.

[C]

It doesn't. It doesn't.

[B]

Losing.

[C]

It really isn't. It really isn't.

[B]

Hey, David, got an. Got an announcement to make.

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

Prime Big Deal Days is coming on October 7th and 8th.

[A]

It's gotta be Amazon.

[B]

Gotta be, gotta be.

[A]

That's where the deals are.

[B]

You know the rest.

[A]

I actually have a bookmark on my computer of Amazon because a. I did my special for them, of course.

[B]

Oh, that's right, you were on Amazon Prime.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

This is their annual sales event from Amazon. Features tons of exclusive deals just for prime members. I'm one.

[A]

Prime Members is where it's at because you're getting great deals. You get so many great things. A lot of stuff, you know, deals up to 40% off on these prime big deal days October 7th and 8th. So you have to. This is the time to make your moves because this is it right now. Things I want to get. That's trickier because there's a lot out there that if this is your time to buy, what do you get? What would you be if you had to. I put you on the spot.

[B]

I know it's because you want to think about it. It's two days of Prime Big Deal packed with great deals, lots of savings. So I'm thinking for me, I'm going to tip a toe in the water with a subwoofer.

[A]

I've got a really nice TV subwoofer of all things.

[B]

I know a subwoofer and it gives you that basing? I've got a great TV in this area, but I need a little oomph. So I'm thinking a subwoofer. I've got my eye on that. What about you, David?

[A]

Well, I just put on a light jacket in this room. I know you've talked about light jackets.

[B]

I need. I desperately need a light jacket.

[A]

Light jackets are where it's at because when I travel, I'm always on the plane, and it's just hard to have a big puffer all the time. It's almost like you need one for the plane. And sometimes I pack the pupper shocker.

[B]

I know I just have this jean jacket and this is it. And it's kind of warm sometimes, so I need some light ones on them on the, you know, podcast, so forth and so on.

[A]

You know, I think I need a basketball. I think I need some sort of outdoorsy stuff and maybe something for a barbecue, because I might be starting to get into that.

[B]

Right. And the great thing about Amazon prime is, to state the obvious, the selection is massive. I want to get a new microphone that even makes me bassier and sexier and a new stand. Yeah, I want to get one. I don't want you to be bassier.

[A]

And sexier than me.

[B]

I want a bassy, sexy mic. And you can put that in Amazon prime and boom, you find it, you know?

[A]

Well, listen, I mean, I'm always looking for a hot blow dryer, but the thing is, if you can think it, you can almost find it.

[B]

I think that's just such a wide example. It is so vast. And I use Amazon on Prime constantly to buy stuff. So this is just sort of cool, these two days where if you're thinking of stuff, a big ticket item and, you know, a great hair dryer or a travel hair dryer, there's nothing wrong with that.

[A]

That kind of one.

[B]

We need, you know, maybe a new suitcase, too. You know, all those kinds of things.

[A]

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[A]

Charlie, here's a dumb question.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

You got. You got one question. Go ahead.

[B]

He can talk too, though. You can talk.

[C]

Thank you. Have you and I ever met, Dana?

[B]

I don't think we've ever met.

[C]

I don't think so either.

[B]

No. That meeting you either. Yeah, we almost. Fred Wolf was doing some kind of movie and you were in it.

[A]

Oh, Mad Families do it.

[B]

Yeah. Mad Families. Yes. And I was. For a while. I was going to do that, but I just was doing stand up or whatever I was doing. But we would have met then.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And David and I had a scene together. Do you remember this?

[A]

Oh, that's right. In Mad Families.

[C]

Remember? I like rewrote it and I turn it in like three pages and I came to you like five minutes before we were going to shoot it. I'm like, let's do it this way, man. I was fucking hammered, dude. I was hammered that day. And apologies. No, but we did. We did have a nice vibe and a nice rhythm and a nice thing in that scene, didn't we?

[A]

Yes, I remember that was. Naya Rivera was in that movie. Little was. L' Rell in it.

[C]

Lil Rel.

[A]

Yeah, Lil Rel. And, yeah, I do remember coming to do one scene, and I had to speak with everybody. I don't remember enough about it, but if we did a collab that I hope it came out all right. Mad Family sort of was. We call it under the Radar because it was on Crackle.

[C]

It was on Crackle? Yes.

[A]

Crackle turned into an app. It was supposed to be like Netflix. And then it kind of wasn't. It sounded like Norm very much. Then it kind of wasn't.

[C]

Wasn't.

[A]

Yeah, they kind of bailed on it, you know, Charlie, do you remember the story of Tom Hurts try to put a show together with us? And it was after you left Two and a Half Men. Tom Hertz, in all his wisdom, was working on Two and a Half Men for years, I guess. Then he came to do Rules of Engagement, another show that I did.

[C]

No, Tom. Tom was on Spin City, I think, also Spin.

[A]

Oh, Spin City. And then he came to us because he worked with you and he knew you.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And then he came to me and said, what about you and Charlie doing a show? And I said, isn't Charlie a little bit in the dog with cbs? Because it was literally in the middle of all that.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And he says, well, Les Moonves likes this idea. I was like, he does. Even in the middle of char. I think either you guys were suing each other, there's some pure chaos, obviously. And I was like, well. And then it kind of fizzled out. But I thought it would have been fun back then. That was. It would have been kind of a fun pairing.

[C]

Yeah. So, no, it would have been awesome. And so it would have been that instead of anger management, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's right. I think that's what you went into next.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Was Anger management was a 9010 deal.

[C]

It was a. It was 1090. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Those are those deals, Dana, where you'd shoot. It was sort of a new formula where you'd shoot 10 episodes, and if they liked it, they'd buy the back 90. So it's very interesting because you gamble. And Charlie gambled and won again. And he got 100 out of it, right?

[C]

Yeah, we got to 100 but it didn't catch fire like we were kind of hoping, you know.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

But it's interesting, Dana. It's literally like a 10 episode pilot.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so then they take the average number from those episodes that air and it has to get above a certain threshold. And if that happens, then it activates the next 90.

[A]

Yeah. And you get a 100 episodes.

[B]

You get 100 episodes and you get backend on it or.

[C]

Exactly. Yeah. You take a lot less upfront salary, but you, you know, have an ownership position that's pretty significant when they work. But this one, because I wasn't. I wasn't ready to go back to work, you know, Was it right after.

[A]

Two and a Half Men? So it's hard to like go right to a show.

[C]

It was about six months after.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's pretty fast.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Which for me probably felt like a weekend, you know, at the time. In the middle of all that. Yeah.

[A]

And Dana, you wouldn't like it. It's like two in a day. Don't you shoot like you shoot faster?

[C]

Yeah. And there's no audience. And sometimes you're doing two shows a week or you didn't finish the second show from last week, so you start the week with that. So you're really trying to focus on three shows that week. And it's just. And it doesn't. Yeah. I think a lot of the process.

[A]

Suffers, you know, not the thing to get you off drugs, that's for sure.

[C]

Definitely not.

[B]

Certainly most of the cast end up on drugs when they do the 1090 thing, I'm sure because of the, the pressure.

[A]

I heard of my friend, a friend of mine that we all know just did a 1090 deal, or 90 10, whatever we call it. And I don't think it. It kicked in. So it's the gamble, you know, you're betting on yourself. And I think it's a pretty good gamble. I probably would have done one of those because it's something to you get some money, but there's a big high reward.

[C]

Sure. Wait, your, your, your friend did one recently.

[A]

Recently. That's what I heard. Are they still kicking those around?

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Because they kind of went away.

[C]

Was it a multi?

[A]

I'm pretty sure it would have been a multi. That's probably the fastest you can do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

You know, I'll tell you after, but. Because I don't want to say anything about his real name because maybe he would feel like, oh, it didn't get picked up, but got it. I'll tell you after. And that's very interesting though, that the 1090 could still be floating out there when syndication isn't quite as valuable. Obviously you were sort of one of the last. Not the last, but your show two and a half minute, which is still on, you know, honestly, too much, and it's on probably 12 stations at any given time.

[B]

When was the end? I mean, it was that when this, the syndication thing started.

[A]

Big Bang was one of the biggest endings. Yeah, sure, we had Modern Family, you.

[C]

Know, when, when, when was it on as far as like, when was it like actual broadcast?

[B]

Yeah, the block. When syndication was a really big thing still, you know, because that was Seinfeld, the 90s and so forth. But I guess it got that pop and you were making a really good, good salary, Charlie.

[C]

You know, I mean, I, I was, I was trying to negotiate my way out of it. I was, I was waiting for them to say, it's, you know, all right, we're done. Seven is plenty. This guy's asking for the moon. We can only afford the only guy.

[A]

In America trying to get himself out of like a huge show.

[B]

So. By asking for so much money to get out. Basically, yeah.

[C]

I was calling.

[B]

They said yes. Okay?

[C]

They said yes. And I was like. Because I had a conversation with my manager when I was in rehab when they were trying to negotiate for 8 and 9, and I felt like 7 had just, I kind of just reached my limit. I didn't see that we had a lot of stories left to tell, you know, and I just, I'd completely lost a passion. Tons of, tons of shit in the background in my personal life that wasn't, you know, I'm not blaming anyone, but it was making the job just more complicated than it had to be, you know. And I told my manager, Mark, at the time, I said, if I go back, I have a hunch that something is going to go. It's going to go horrible.

[A]

The dam's gonna break.

[C]

Dam's gonna break. Yeah, man. Now, do you think that was a self fulfilling prophecy or do you think I just knew that that's how the planets were going to be misaligned?

[A]

Well, I think, you know, when you get overwhelmed, I think, you know, I mean, everyone says money is the key thing, but when you already have money, you've been rich probably since Apocalypse now. You've had money, a couple beans in your jeans now. Platoon, Red Dawn.

[B]

He got back in on Red.

[C]

Yeah, it was over. Still, it's still paying.

[A]

Yeah, Red dawn covers those Honda Accord payments just alone. So you got that. And then you go, everyone's. Your life is great with money, but it sounds stupid, but it does complicate a lot of things. And you've got so many complications going on. And I think you had a trailer on the set as opposed to a dressing room. Did you have a bus or something or mine?

[C]

I had a tour bus.

[A]

A tour bus. That's what I had heard.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was jealous when I had a marathon coach. It was pretty cool.

[A]

Right outside the stage door probably. Right. Like we walk out and then.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So you shoot.

[C]

It was right there.

[A]

Yeah, you shoot. You go in and wait, and then you come back in and do your scene. So you can do whatever you want in there, obviously. And probably took advantage of that.

[C]

Two and a half. Not so much the stuff before it and the stuff after it. Very much so much. Yeah.

[B]

So when did you first feel, like, incredibly wealthy? What was it after Wall street or when or for you, you know, you're in your early 20s. When did you kind of go, holy shit, I'm a millionaire, or, I'm close to a millionaire. You know, it's heady stuff, right?

[C]

It was probably, like, in mid-90s.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But there were about 30. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. But there was a moment early on when I got my first acting paycheck from Grizzly. From Grizzly 2. The predator or the Revenge, as they.

[A]

Retitled the movie Grizzly. They did a sequel.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. And so I made two grand a week, and I was there for three. I made six grand. I didn't care. I didn't know about taxes or any of that shit. And I went to the bank and just took it all in cash. And I walked into a clothing store and there were these two kind of fancy vests. Not like a Western vest, but like a. Like a camping vest. Right. And I couldn't decide on the color. It was like a blue one or a fricking green one. And I was like, I'm going to take them both.

[B]

Whoa.

[C]

Yeah. And they were like, you know, 40 bucks each, 60 bucks each, whatever. And just laid out the cash. And literally in that moment, I felt, okay, all right. This is. I'm feeling like a big shot.

[A]

Sure. And you all take both. And then you go, you like that shit?

[B]

And the lady goes, oh, there's more that came from. Why are you being aggressive?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Maybe it's the money winning.

[A]

How are you?

[B]

I hate to eat.

[A]

I did a Police Academy movie and I was making not much money, but it was more than I ever had in my life. And I saw some pants in the window in Toronto, and I went in and the lady goes, those are $60. It was like Pretty Woman. Like, those are for rich people. And I go, I'll take them. And she's like, whoa. Everyone in the store was like, whoa. And I was like, 60s, nothing to me, because I got a hundred dollars in per diem, so I bought it. I literally. There's very few times I've felt richer.

[B]

We all have that story. You know, I was interested, I'm sure, this in the book, that you'd think, hey, Martin Sheen's his dad. He's growing up like a billionaire, you know, and obviously in the documentary, it's. It's. It's pretty middle class, you know, it's not fancy pants. You. And. Because you guys didn't have money. Go ahead.

[C]

You can see our house in the background of a lot of the Super 8.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and it's not a mansion documentary. Not a. Not a manicured.

[B]

No, no. It's very. It's funky and cool. Great for a kid. But I was wondering if anyone in that posse. Like, I'm fascinated by Sean Penn and Sean.

[A]

When did you meet Sean?

[B]

Rob Lowe, or are you your friends? Did anyone have a silver spoon or. We were all kind of middle class, in a sense.

[C]

We were. We were all middle class. Rob's the Lows came in a little later. And the reason, you know, he wasn't excluded intentionally, but the footage that the director, Andrew Renzi, chose to incorporate was from, you know, the younger, younger years. You know, I think by the time I started making those films with Rob and his brother Chad, I think video videotape came into play. It was actually. Do you remember this thing called the. It was like a Polaroid brand, but it was a Polaroid video camera. Do you remember this?

[B]

I never heard of it once.

[C]

It. It developed in the player while you were waiting, and then it played was called Polar Vision, I think. So that's, you know. Yeah, so we were sort of in the cutting edge of, like, as the technology was improving. But no, his. His delos dad was still in Ohio and their stepdad was a psychiatrist. They lived right down the street. Sean's parents, a director, actress. You know, they were married until the day they both died. And so. But nobody was rolling. Nobody was driving a fancy car or fancy duds or picking up a check. So, yeah, it was really a cool time to just experience all of that and not have a ton of excess and special effects and Bullshit. Sort of in the way of. Of. Of. Of of those memories, you know, and.

[B]

Super 8 or whatever that was is. So it's just emotional, you know, and. And I. I think it's funny. Like, every kid who ever got a hold of a camcorder or whatever, they always want to do war scenes or crime scenes and want to do a death scene, like. Ah, sure. Did you have a good go to move like. Oh.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The platoon move is a big one. Willem Dafoe.

[C]

Oh, yeah, the whole.

[A]

Yeah, the crucifixion that's been reenacted all over.

[C]

Yeah. I actually, I have that as a sticker in my phone that I send people when I don't know how to respond. It's just defoe like that. So if you get. If you get that, it just means I'm stumped, you know, Send me that.

[B]

It is interesting of like the trifecta, I think you. For Vietnam War films, you know, you'd say Deer Hunter, Platoon, and Apocalypse now, and there was a sheen in two of them. And I think that that film really, along with Wall street and others, really holds up. You know, Platoon has. Has some magic to it. And would you put.

[C]

Would you put Full Metal Jacket in there anywhere, or.

[B]

No, I put. Anything Kubrick does is a given. Yes, Yes, I would. That's a good call. Full Metal Jacket, anything. Kubrick pretty much, you know, sure. Just magic, you know, brilliant masterpiece.

[C]

Masterpiece.

[B]

And Deer Hunter, you know, the mouth.

[A]

Ow.

[B]

You know, with Christopher Walken, one of the greatest, most intense scenes ever made, so. Yeah, but you're part of that, and it's pretty cool.

[C]

Thank you. Thank you.

[A]

Charlie, what movies did you turn down that sting the most? And I'll tell you which one.

[B]

If it's Opportunity Knocks, I'm so sorry.

[A]

If it's Tommy Boy, I'm gonna be me.

[B]

I'm so sorry. It's between you and me. No, go ahead.

[C]

I turned down White Men Can't Jump.

[A]

Oh, for.

[C]

What?

[B]

Were you going to be Woody or what?

[C]

Yeah. And then just coincidentally, a bit later on, I think it came after, maybe before I turned down Indecent Proposal.

[B]

Whoa.

[C]

So I kept waiting Woody to send me some flowers and thank me for advancing his career like I did.

[A]

Those were bad.

[B]

I found Indecent Proposal. You know, I'm a huge Redford fan. God rest us all. End to me more and everything, but I just found the movie very depressing. Woody's character was so like. I mean, that was the only thing I'd say about Dodge. I don't know, it just wasn't my favorite movie. Although it's skillfully, brilliantly done. I just was like, you know, I.

[C]

Couldn'T get past the thing that. All right, they did that. He's got the money to, you know, to lessen the sting a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then spends it all on that tchotchke. Right, right. Like the little jade elephant or something or.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Or am I misremembering that?

[B]

No, it was something weird. It was a very show.

[C]

His love was real and it wasn't about money and it wasn't about this, but they still have to stay married and live with that moment.

[A]

Right.

[C]

With the thing with Thread, it's tough, right? Yeah.

[A]

Charlie's agent wrote back. Charlie likes it, but wants to tweak.

[C]

The ending pretty much.

[A]

And they said it's. We're pretty locked in the ending. He said, that's a pass from Charlie.

[C]

That's pretty much how it went.

[B]

Did you. Did you see Brokeback Mountain and call your agent? Why the fuck wasn't I up for this?

[C]

Yeah, I have to admit, it's kind of one of those films that's always been on that unseen but need to get to at least, you know, and I think that we all sort of have, so. I never. I never saw it, but I hear it's fabulous.

[B]

Well, it's. It's. Yeah, it's. It's. It's a little heartbreaking, but, yeah, the performances are exceptional, you know?

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Goodfellas.

[B]

Goodfellas. We are up for that.

[C]

I was not up for Goodfellas.

[A]

Now, Karate Kid.

[C]

Karate Kid is one that. That I actually had. I don't know if I could classify it as turning it down or describe it as turning it down. It's. I just. I. You know, it's in the book, it's in the doc, I think, and that I just asked for some time because the advice from my dad was to stay to honor my word with Grizzly and because I'd already, you know, committed to that. Grizzly comes into the picture, that fucking bear. That bear ate me twice. Right.

[A]

Jaws on land.

[C]

Yeah. Grizzly. So he said if. If. If they wait for you, it's meant to be. If they don't, then it's your, you know, your reputation. Being a man of your word is going to sell you further than one big movie. I. I don't know from a.

[B]

From afar. I. I do have a lot of admiration for your dad. I. I did meet him and I did something with him one time. It was Just a. A charity event. We were all doing Shakespeare with Tom Hanks. But. Yeah, well, it was kind of like pretend fun Shakespeare.

[A]

Was it in the park? They do that in the summer.

[B]

I was in Santa Monica in a theater.

[C]

And it's a reading, right? Isn't it?

[B]

Yeah. But then we all go on stage and sort of kid around in our reading. You know, I'm doing.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Impressions and things and that Shakespeare. You know, one thing I was gonna ask, because film people who've been in brilliant films, around brilliant people. The. You know, you've been across your. Your partner, man or woman, and went, damn, you know, this, this person is exceptional. Or someone who kind of took you back a little bit by just how great they were at this thing called acting.

[C]

Sure. Who, who, who, who might. Who.

[B]

Who was that? I wanted to bring up the elevator scene with your dad.

[C]

That. That was one of those moments where you actually. You get distracted because you're. You become an audience member and then wait. But you're in the scene and shit. It's my line. You know what I mean? It's like those moments, and I had some of them with Michael Douglas on the same movie. Definitely had him with dad, even though he's only in it just a little bit. James Spader in Wall Street. I was kind of like going, oh, shit. So they're doing it like that now. You know what I'm saying? It was like this whole thing. And then. Yeah. Who else? Who else? Oh, shit. Michael J. Fox.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Just when we had a couple scenes together, he had transitioned out and I had stepped in, but he wanted to stay close enough to it to bridge the transition, you know? And, yeah, we did some scenes together and it was other level talent.

[B]

I was like, whoa, he's out. I mean, you look at back. You take a look at it. Back to the Future. I feel like I'm doing Trump, but that's hard to do, you know? And I know you replaced Eric Stoltz, who probably was great, but to be light, play it dramatic, and ride that whole wave of those movies. Yeah, Michael J. Fox is. I don't know if he's underrated or appropriately appreciated, but that's a great.

[C]

That's a great question. But it's interesting because there's a thing that I do describe in the book, and it's, it's. It's really there for a reason, you know, not just to celebrate and honor him, but also because that's my last outpost before going on to two and a half. So I was kind of Symbolically implying, like, okay, I borrowed a little bit from this dude, you know, Cause there was tons flying off of him and took it over to that thing. And we know, we saw how that thing went, you know, so well, it's rare.

[B]

Can you imagine how excited when they get Two and a Half Men together and Chuck Lorrie, the cast is there, and then you're just. You're winning. You're killing it, like, because it is a skill set. And you started in Spin City, but then it's hard to find a leading man, handsome leading man, who can also be very funny, you know, so they must have been, you know, high fiving at some point behind the scenes, like, you know, just. Just because you're. You're great at this too, you know.

[C]

Thank you. Thank you. But it was all. It was just playing the straight man, you know, and when I did it in the Hot Shots. But yeah, it's. And some of that Shots.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Well, when I did it in Hot Shots, I was, I was borrowing, you know, a lot of stuff from Leslie Nielsen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, who better to borrow?

[A]

That was the theme of that was.

[B]

Sort of the feel, love, love that movie Hot Shots.

[C]

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

[B]

Really.

[C]

And then I was borrowing stuff from Ted Danson on Cheers for two and a half. But I know he's a sober bartender and I was a drunk jingle writer, but just as far as the, the straight Man. And, and yeah, you know what I'm saying, He's. He's, he's kind of the anchor and all the, all the craziness revolves around, you know, orbits, his, his, his star, his planet.

[A]

But you're not putting huge spin and overacting. You're not like Kramer. You know what I mean? You're just saying your lines and they sell themselves with good writing and they know how to write for you, and you're just.

[B]

It's hard to be a funny straight man like Andy Griffith was to Barnes.

[C]

Yeah. But thank you. That's. But especially coming from you guys. Come on, two, you know, veterans and, you know, extremely successful veterans. To get comedic compliments from you guys is really badass. So thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Well, don't you and your own personal life, you know, kind of fall in love with talent, you know, it's just kind of fun to watch, you know, And I, and I, I was. This was maybe a clumsy thing, but, you know, I thought of people who get out fast, you know, and it's, It's a rare. But it's kind of that are very talented. Like, I'm talking about Woody Allen and I'm talking about the Beatles, Bob Dylan, you know, by 21, 22, Brando. And you were kind of in. In that group in a way. I'm just saying loosely because you came out so good and so showed so much talent. But you know who musically, who's your. Who's your North Star? Like when you. The canon of rock and roll. Are you Pink Floyd? Are you. Are you Neil Young or Led Zeppelin?

[A]

Oh, I just watched that documentary on the plane.

[B]

Became pretty good.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. I think they got a shot.

[A]

That's probably legendary. Frontman Led Zeppelin 1.

[C]

Yeah. What you think of the doc? Did you. Did. Did you like.

[A]

I thought it was pretty good. You know, I always like when it gets to more. I don't always like the beginning. I like to know just to where I knew them, you know, and. But it was very interesting and everyone loved it. So I watched on the plane. It was perfect.

[B]

I ate it up very quickly.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. It's excellent.

[B]

What was your thoughts?

[A]

I love playing.

[C]

I. I would have liked that they got to. If they'd taken it to Zep4.

[B]

Right. It could have been.

[A]

There you go. Y. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Because that's the one.

[A]

They only started to get to the stuff I really liked. And I was like, wait, is that it? It's over? I was like, go, go, go, go, go. Yeah, we're landing.

[B]

That's true. It was interesting for a doc to show them. I guess it was on a TV show or somewhere. But you showed them really jam for like 12 minutes or something. Like, really go song.

[A]

I think they showed one full song. I think it was rock and roll. They showed the whole.

[C]

I think. Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, this is the one that's probably. I mean, as good as any. Oh, question, Charlie. You collect things and I'm sort of been in your orbit. We're roughly the same age. Roughly. In showbiz, you're obviously doing a ton of stuff. Way more. But in a weird way, I remember I'd heard I was at an Elvis auction at Butterfield and Butterfield. In the old days, I sometimes buy collectibles and I think you're in a. Maybe baseball cards. I always heard that. And was there an Elvis green Amex you bought ever? Because I think I had my eye on one of those.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

I said, I think Charlie Sheen got it.

[C]

You know, I'd love 50,000. That's the kind of rumor that you want to embrace.

[A]

That's a cool one.

[C]

That's yeah. Because then when the bill comes, everybody's kind of waiting for you to drop that thing.

[A]

Because you can buy. Dana. I bought an Elvis set list. You know, like he wrote on the. On some Michigan Hilton. He was writing all the songs, like Love Me 10 or his handwriting and shit.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And so I bought that, and I bought a gun he had, and I bought something else, but I wanted this Amex, but it was too rich for my blood. And what did it.

[C]

Because I didn't buy it. I never. This is the first I'm hearing about this Elvis auction. It sounds awesome. What. How much did the amex go for?

[A]

50,000.

[C]

50,000.

[A]

And that was 20 years ago, because I was at the auction and Joey Esposito was there, so they were like, authenticating stuff. And I bought a watch. And I don't have. I don't think anything left from that because I lost the set list. And. But I bought stuff before, and I thought, oh, I think Charlie does. Maybe baseball cards or just. Or maybe baseballs. I don't know.

[C]

But, yeah, I. I got.

[A]

Are you in and out of that biz or not?

[C]

I've sold everything.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And.

[A]

And I should have come to that garage sale. Jesus Christ.

[B]

What did you. What did you sell? That was a little bit.

[C]

I. I had. I. Geez. I. I had something, like, from every era. I had a lot of Babe Ruth stuff. I had that famous long white overcoat that he's seen in tons of photos.

[A]

Oh, had the coat.

[B]

Oh, you had the coat?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I had the coat. I mean, there's probably more than one, but had one of the three. Probably. I had a lot of jerseys, had a lot of caps, a lot of hats, some great bats. But there was a turning point moment where, because I had these cool cases built at my house up in Malibu Lake years ago, and I had been to the hall of Fame for the first time, and I thought kind of, this is back in 1991. And I thought how they had set it up was a bit shoddy. I thought this. I could see, like a moth, like, down in the corner behind the glass. And I was like, what are these doing? Right. Yeah. And so I was inspired by it. I wanted my cases in my house to be, like, nicer than the hall of Fame in Cookerstown. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so we brought in the right people and, you know, and they delivered that. Right. But then a couple years later, I was looking for something, and I opened a dresser drawer up in my bedroom, and there's a 1941 Ted Williams Road jersey, like just folded nicely and in the drawer. And I had that, you know, it's the area hit, you know, 406 and all that. And I had that moment of if I don't have room on a wall for this, like, this is the last time that anybody ever did the thing he did while wearing that. Then I need to recirculate a lot of these artifacts and antiques and just let others enjoy them. And then Lelands put together an auction, and it was all sent back out into the world.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And some cards, or not a Honus Wagner card or was a. I had.

[C]

One called like the five pinhole card because they're so graded so anally and they have to describe everything. And I guess. I guess some kid back in the 20s, like was sticking it up on a. On a. On a board or somewhere in his bedroom and.

[A]

Oh, and it was. Holes in it.

[C]

Yeah. But don't you think you'd at least just keep using the same hole? Why did he have five holes?

[A]

No. Those dipshits, they're ruining cards for the future. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, they really were so.

[A]

But I'm sure that went a little pricey.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was up there, but not nearly. When that. When that Wagner card really got everyone's attention, Gretzky partnered with. Was it McNal. Gunny McNall. And they paid like what they pay for that, like 500 grand. Everybody was like, this is out of control. And now. Now you think about that. That's like chump change, right?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, all that stuff just keep. It's one of the few niche places that just keeps going up faster than stocks. It's. They just.

[B]

When people have a passion and their passion and even, you know, Jay Leno probably has made more money or, you know, he won't sell his cars. No, but he probably. If he did, he'd make more money off his passion than even easily comedic career. You know, it's very. I. I have a friend who collects antique bottles and it's. His collection is worth $3 million. He's just dug them out of San Francisco Bay because it was all landfill. And you go in there at night. I went with him. And you dig where they're excellent building where you're digging down a hole and then you see this little 2 inches of ash, and that's 1906, the earthquake and the fire. Then you go further and you're pulling out shoes and stuff. Once in a while you get a bottle. You know, that's worth $50,000, you know, so it's interesting to further.

[A]

And you're in China.

[B]

Yeah. You know, one thing I was going to ask Charlie about, because I was seeing you all the Cooperstown has this. I want to have more and we all have this 10 year old boy inside of us and it's. Sometimes it's. It's necessary to have success is just to have a fair play competitive instinct. They do that. I mean, Nicholas Cage was so competitive. I did a movie with him and we just made. Made fun of the competition, you know, because. Because Kurt Russell was in Tombstone and he had a line in the movie, you're gonna throw down, boy. If you remember the movie, to Billy. Billy Bob Thornton, who weighed 220 pounds. So when Nicholas thought I did something good, you threw down. You really threw down today, you know. Wow. Wow.

[C]

What film did you guys do?

[B]

The films I do aren't even on video and they. They're banned from Earth. No, it was trapped in paradise. Oh, we wandered around. Oh, we fell around in the snow. Me, him and John Lovitz for. For three months. And somehow they put something together. Okay. But Nicholas was a blast. One of the funniest.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Brightest guys I've ever met.

[A]

Was he one of your Malibu guys up there?

[B]

Your relationship with him?

[C]

Yeah, no, he's not a Malibu guy. He was a town guy and a Bay Area guy, sort of back and forth, you know. I'm sorry, what was the last question?

[B]

Well, I just wanted to know about your relationship with him, you know, because you guys kind of hung out. I know there was, you know, extracurricular activities, but just as a person, I found him very charming.

[C]

And he's one of my favorite people. We don't see each other enough, but when we do, it's quite special. Yeah, because you talk about his intellect and then you wrap that inside of this outlandish sense of humor just that is rooted somewhere outside of what us mortals can grasp. And it's an insane and beautiful mashup. He.

[B]

He never saw acting as having to be accurate. You know, he just found that you could do whatever you wanted with it. So he's doing a scene, it's his cheesy movie, and he's supposed to come in and kind of ask for forgiveness for this girlfriend or something like that. And he goes, I'm gonna do Daniel Day Lewis from my father in this take. So he comes, all of a sudden, he comes out screaming, falls to his knees.

[C]

Why?

[B]

Why? Why? And I was like, you can do that? I mean, he's a. He's a unicorn.

[C]

I mean, there's no rules with him. There's no rules with him. And to have that kind of courage in. Inside that, that those spaces is. It's. It's to be marveled at, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I got something. When was Tom Cruise in any of your early movies? Did you. Did you know he was going to be a big deal?

[C]

We knew. Yeah. Pretty soon. Because when Chris, Sean's young brother Chris Penn dropped out of high school and bum rushed that set of Taps on the other side of the country, he came back talking about this guy named Tom Cruise. In my mind, I added a Z and I thought he was Latin. I thought he was a Mexican or Spaniard or something. Right. And then when I met him, I was like, oh, you're from Oklahoma. And then he smiles, and then you start to engage his personality and his intellect and you're like, yeah, this guy. There's something going on here for sure. But Emilio and he became really tight because they were auditioning for the Outsiders at the same time and helping each other prepare for their auditions. And then they both got it, different roles. And they've, They've. They've been great friends ever since. So I was, you know, I was younger than them, so I was kind of like tagging along. But anytime I've, you know, seen Tom over the years, wherever, he's awesome, you know.

[B]

Well, it's just become. These last few years, it's like you sort of just stand back in awe, you know, because I'm basically a baby. You know, I maybe hung from a wire once, but, you know, he's hanging on to airplanes, and I know, like, I'm strapped down. He's holding his wrath for six minutes. I mean, you can't even. What the fuck? So you have to see the movie.

[A]

What the.

[C]

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Do you think at some point he's going to want to get back to, like, a magnolia?

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Oh, yeah, right.

[A]

Which was a work of art.

[B]

And he was spectacular in that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What? You got to respect the cock. I'm sorry, was that it?

[C]

That was it. That's it, yeah. Respect the cock.

[B]

Yeah, he said it better than I did, but, yeah, he's a force of nature.

[A]

It's funny because Sandler has the ability to go from a Paul Thomas Anderson movie to a big broad, Happy Gilmore, and he goes back Noah Baumbach, then he goes back to abroad. And I think Tom, obviously can do anything he wants, but you're right, these are important. But Mission Impossible to Top Gun. It's huge, huge blockbusters. But would he want to go small again? Would he want to go. He could get an Oscar. He's great.

[B]

I think if Christopher Nolan called him or somebody like that might even get his attention.

[A]

I think so.

[C]

I think so. I mean he does want to make movies that fill theaters and give people that, that, that, that experience that they, that connects them back to their childhood.

[A]

He's the savior of that. I think he's made himself the guy, the spokesman.

[B]

He and the filmmakers know this, but it was in Roman Holiday long time ago, but basically non verbal with music. So the end of Top Gun you have a six minute montage of the end of the movie of people tearing up. No real dialog and saluting. And we were alive and we did this. And I've seen other films do that F1 and where there's this silent movie added onto the movie and it's very affecting. You know that three or four minutes where you're seeing them in tears, looking at each other and it's all. A lot of the blockbusters are using that now. So it's just kind of interesting to me. But Top Gun really got me emotionally because, you know, I hear Hans Zimmerman, I hear just the music. I'm kind of, it gets me emotional. And then you see Tom Cruise is really good at hugging someone coming back. He's got this look and the teary eyes in the kitchen.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. He, he, he insists that, that, that, that we experience that mom with him.

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

Yeah. Now is that the first Top Gun that you're referring to or is that.

[B]

Is this the second? Second one.

[C]

Got it, got it. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Which came out of nowhere and was an in movie theater big hit when the industry really needed it, obviously.

[C]

But, and they tried, they tried to stream it, didn't they?

[B]

Well, yes.

[A]

Not on his watch.

[C]

No, no, no.

[B]

Stuck to his young gun. Speaking of that, in 1988, thank God.

[A]

They didn't wait 30 years between grizzlies.

[C]

Right? I mean that would have been a disaster, you know.

[A]

So this is about cachava and. Yeah, you know me, I know you around. I had cachava right before this. Actually. I was. Listen, if, if you're out for a quick lunch and you want something big, maybe a sandwich, maybe some sunshine, that's where you go out. And then suddenly I'm in a rental car with a friend halfway to a pop up art exhibit two towns over. Spur of the moment road trip.

[B]

That's you.

[A]

No plans, nothing to eat. Yeah, except I had my little Kachaba. Right. Thank everything for that because that's a body meal. These shakes are a go to for me. This is for unpredictable day and that's what my days are. New strawberry flavor. Magnifique.

[B]

Dana, I think that's a good way to describe it. Absolutely crushes it.

[A]

Yeah, it tastes like strawberries turned up to 11 freeze dried fruit. It's very real. It's got a creamy texture, that hint of sweetness that makes it feel like a treat. It's a full on refuel. Tastes good. Doesn't feel like a crummy lunch packed with 85 plus superfoods. There's nutrients, plant based ingredients including 25 grams of plant based protein, fiber, antioxidants and your favorite adaptogens.

[B]

Yeah, you name it. I blend mine with almond milk and a few frozen strawberries. Good to go for hours.

[A]

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[A]

Shit. I think we're out of time. Dana. I think we got it I think we had a wrap with Charlie Sheen. Any wrap up questions for this guy?

[B]

Not. Not really. I think the book is the book of Sheen, the documentary. I mean, we, you know, we consciously. We talked about it. We didn't want to. We. We know you've done a lot of press. We wanted to make this lighter and more fun and wanted to pick your brain about relationships with your dad or whoever.

[C]

Sure. No, this is. This has been incredibly refreshing.

[B]

Good. That's what we wanted.

[C]

Thank you. And if I'd like to believe that I get invited back, that'd be amazing. And then we can do it, like, and be in the same room. Are you feeling okay with the thing that happened or.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm totally. Just want to get. Didn't want to give you anything, but. Yeah.

[C]

And thank you. I appreciate that. But I do have a question for David.

[B]

Good.

[C]

And there was a weird moment during the fight, right? And like, I'm, you know. And Michael Ehrman, he's a lovely man. He's just beautifully all over the place, but what a good dude. But when. When I look over and I see Dave's name on the chair next to me, I was like, okay, all right. I'm gonna have some backup reinforcements coming in. I don't know why I thought that. Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So he sits down, and I'm like, did they plan this, knowing that this was already scheduled? Right? So they finally cut the chairs apart. Everybody's having a great time. And I look up and I see this giant rig, like, where they had speakers. And the lights thing, it weighs like, you know, four thirds, 100,000 tons, right? And I said to Dave, I said, if that breaks loose, we're clearly in the crush zone. Right? And I said, are you cool if I'm the last guy, like, on this planet that you interact with? And he took a beat. Took a beat and said something to the effect of, yeah, yeah, I think I'm okay with that. And I said, good. Cause I'm okay with it being you too, you know?

[A]

And so we really bonded there.

[C]

I felt like we bonded there, man. And clearly it didn't fall. But is that.

[A]

No, but I like that you put that in my head. I think I was taking a beat because I was thinking, what are the. Does he know something I don't? Is this going to fall? And then Marshawn lynch sat in front of me and blocked 110% of the fight.

[C]

Oh, my gosh, his head is this big. I go, wow.

[A]

Wait, is the fight over? I. I Go to watch on the screen now.

[B]

I do that all the time. Can this fall or is this also Dana?

[A]

They show, they show Michael J. Fox on the screen and I go for no reason. You can tell he's still mad at you, Charlie.

[C]

That was funny. That was funny. Yeah.

[A]

Based on nothing.

[B]

That was excellent. Can't wait. Fun to be at the fight with Charlie laughing. Because I want you. Do you mind doing Michael J. Fox Casualties of War just for Charlie?

[A]

Oh, me.

[B]

If you don't mind.

[A]

Remember that movie, Charlie?

[C]

I do.

[B]

I, I love Michael J. Fox.

[A]

And Sean Penn is grabbing this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's like, hey, Sarge. Hey, you gotta give me a minute on this here, Sarge. Oh, Christ. She's just a farm girl. Sarge, what are we doing here? Exactly.

[C]

That's amazing.

[B]

Every time, pure specific impression.

[A]

Michael J. Fox in that movie. I was like. And Clarky was John C. Reilly and Sean Penn's like, clarky, throw her down and take her clothes off.

[B]

I'm like, hey, we gotta get these VC Gooks. These VC gook.

[A]

I'm like, what is this? I thought it was a fun comedy because it was Michael. I'm like, this movie took a dark turn and never turned back. Yeah, they're. And whatever.

[C]

That's a fun. Sean was hard on him during that film, wasn't he?

[A]

Oh, on Michael J. Fox.

[B]

Method acting.

[A]

Yeah, I had heard about that. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Apparently he was just, you know, none of it. Didn't, didn't want to because he's like.

[A]

You'Re a sitcom guy kind of with that.

[C]

Maybe that, but also just the character.

[A]

Oh yeah. Just staying in character.

[C]

Yeah. Resentment, you know.

[B]

Yeah. The alpha Alpha.

[C]

Do you know, I've only, I've only worked with Sean on Two and a Half Men. I've only worked with Sean in a comedic setting. He was brilliant. It was our first episode, second season, and he's in a men's group and it was Elvis Costello and Harry Dean Stanton and me and Bobby Cooper. It was awesome. But isn't that a trip that the first time he and I actually thought you.

[A]

I thought he was one of year old movies.

[C]

No, just the stuff you see in the document where he shoots me in my own backyard and then stuffs me in the refrigerator for Emilio to discover later on. It was nuts, you know.

[A]

Yeah. He can be very funny though. I think he went on Friends was very funny.

[B]

Well, you know SNL and he did the read through. I go, wow, this guy's talented.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, right on, right on.

[A]

You know, Charlie, we'll do it again and we'll do it. We got more to talk to you.

[B]

About because we'll do one person.

[A]

Hey guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, give us review, five star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

[B]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[A]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey and executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtz Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

[B]

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by.

[A]

Phil Sweet Tech booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

[B]

Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney, me and Lauren Vieira.

[A]

Reach out with us. Any questions be asked and answered on the show? You can email us at [e-mail]. that's a U D A C Y com.