Michael McKean Returns… Just Like Spinal Tap

Summary

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Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade

Episode: Michael McKean Returns… Just Like Spinal Tap

Release Date: September 11, 2025
Guest: Michael McKean

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes Michael McKean back to the show—a multi-talented actor, comedian, and musician best known for “Spinal Tap,” “Laverne & Shirley,” and numerous film and TV roles. The conversation is a nostalgic, inside look into comedy, improv, showbiz stories, the making and legacy of "This Is Spinal Tap," and the hotly-anticipated sequel. With hosts Dana Carvey and David Spade riffing along, the episode delivers a mix of behind-the-scenes tales, humor, and thoughtful insights about the craft, including memorable experiences with comedic icons and industry legends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Vacation Stories

• McKean kicks off with a funny memory about cramped family trips to Lake Ronan, Montana, sharing how “the cabins [were so flimsy] you could see through the walls,” and how Airbnb would have changed the game for big family trips ([00:00–00:32]).

2. Introducing McKean & Spinal Tap 2

• Spade and Carvey introduce McKean’s legendary status, his work in Christopher Guest films, SNL, and tease "Spinal Tap 2."
• Fun riffing on fake sequel titles:
  • David: “‘The End of the Beginning’—it’s kind of funny” ([03:33]).
  • McKean: “‘It’s One Higher’—two is more than one. Eleven” ([03:40]).
• They joke about the film’s famous amplifier scene, keeping the humor meta and referential ([03:51–04:01]).

3. Filming Styles and Improv in 'Spinal Tap'

• Improvisation:
  • Carvey reveals that only two lines in the original film were scripted, the rest improvised ([21:03] Dana Carvey: “There were two written lines in the first film… everything else was improvised.”).
• Production Process:
  • The film developed from a character “bible” and a wall-sized tour map of the US marked with story highlights ([21:33+]).
  • Editing and structure evolved from extensive filmed material ([22:28]).

4. Casting Stories & Unexpected Turns

• Casting the ‘Tap Head’:
  • McKean recalls how Eddie Deezan, “the nerd from Grease,” was almost cast, but the role shifted in development ([08:44–09:11]).
• Howard Hessman's role in Spinal Tap:
  • Cast last-minute when the original choice proved nonverbal and overwhelmed ([19:44–20:15]).

5. Residuals and Showbiz Economics

• Funny anecdotes about tiny royalty checks from old TV appearances and sitcoms, including Carvey earning “48 cents” for a split-second cameo montage ([10:26–11:14]).
• McKean shares a story of unexpectedly large residuals for dubbing over a famous actor's role in a talking dog project ([11:29–12:07]).

6. Failing Upward: Audition Stories

• McKean and Carvey reminisce being repeatedly passed over for roles before landing their big breaks.
• McKean: “I for sure did a hundred in a row where I didn’t get it” ([19:24]).
• “That’s every audition I had...I wish they told me ahead of time, you’re just not going to get it” —Spade ([19:10]).

7. The Cult and Legacy of Spinal Tap

• Spinal Tap was not a big hit initially—its true fame came from home video word-of-mouth ([23:38]).
• The crew had to fight for rights, especially Harry Shearer, whom McKean jokingly credits as having “Simpsons money” ([25:04]).
• The sequel’s premise involves band members “dragged kicking and screaming to a reunion,” rife with “bad blood,” guest stars, and playful, improvisational filming ([25:18–25:55]).

8. Influence on Modern TV Comedy

• Discussion of how Spinal Tap’s mockumentary format shaped shows like “The Office,” “Modern Family,” and “Parks & Rec” ([47:17–51:31]).
• McKean: “He [Gervais] perfected it. I resisted the American Office…[but] every time I see an episode…it makes me laugh” ([49:11–50:10]).

9. Coneheads, Dan Aykroyd, and SNL Reminiscence

• Behind-the-scenes hilarity from “Coneheads”—including Carvey’s story about Aykroyd losing his temper and tearing off his conehead prosthetic ([29:55–30:28]).
• Reflections on working with iconoclastic comedians, haunted houses, and Aykroyd’s fondness for the supernatural ([31:20–32:34]).

10. Impressions, SNL, and the Art of the Impression

• Dana Carvey and McKean reflect on impressions—what makes a great one, fondness for Bill Hader and Phil Hartman, and the evolution of impressionism on SNL ([37:00–39:41]).
• Carvey: “I’m not a big impression guy…I did do the best George Will” ([37:20]).

11. Women in Sci-fi and Movie Talk

• McKean critiques “The Thing” for lack of female characters as a reason for its initial struggle at the box office, sparking a tangential discussion about “Alien” and the importance of Sigourney Weaver’s role ([41:12–42:13]).

12. Musicians as Actors: Paul McCartney and Elton John Cameos

• McKean recounts the surreal joy of hearing Paul McCartney sing a song he wrote for “Spinal Tap 2” ([60:20–60:45]).
  • "I just spent the first part of the morning listening to Paul McCartney sing a song that I wrote. That's something I never thought would happen to me." — McKean ([02:11], recalled at [60:20]).
• Highlights Elton John's deadpan turn in the new film ([59:28]).

13. On Playing It Straight in Comedy

• “No one was signaling that they're being funny. I mean, it gave it that...made it way funnier.” — McKean on the core approach of Spinal Tap and the importance of earnestness in comedic farce ([57:37–58:12]).
• Discussion of Larry David’s “Curb” philosophy: “no one's trying to be funny” ([57:28]).

14. Favorite Beatles Songs

• Spirited debate about Paul McCartney’s greatest melodies: “Martha, My Dear” is McKean’s pick ([62:42]).
• The hosts share how favorite Beatles songs change over the years ([64:56–65:20]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Spinal Tap’s Legacy:
  • “No one was signaling that they're being funny. I mean, it gave it that... made it way funnier.” —Michael McKean ([57:37])
• On Improv:
  • “There were two written lines in the first film... everything else was improvised.” —Dana Carvey ([21:03])
• On Getting Rights Back:
  • “He [Harry Shearer] says, ‘Guys, I'll do the stuff. We're gonna sue him. We're gonna get the rights back.’ And we did.” —Dana Carvey ([25:04])
• On Auditions:
  • “I for sure did a hundred in a row where I didn’t get it.” —Michael McKean ([19:24])
• On Hearing Paul McCartney Sing His Song:
  • “I just spent the first part of the morning listening to Paul McCartney sing a song that I wrote. That's something that I never thought would happen.” —Michael McKean ([60:20])
• On the Best Beatles Melody:
  • “Martha, My Dear is his greatest melody.” —Michael McKean ([62:42])
• On Spinal Tap’s Influence:
  • “That was sort of this mock documentary. The way they shot it was new. Something new.” —David Spade ([66:06])
• On the art of farce:
  • “A farce is what happens to you on the worst day of your life. It should be a terrible, terrible thing you’re going through, otherwise it’s not going to be funny.” —Dana Carvey, quoting John Cleese ([58:12])

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Pop Culture & Industry Deep Dives

• Influence of Spinal Tap’s Mockumentary Style:
  • Deep reflection on the legacy of mockumentaries in TV (“The Office,” “Modern Family”) and the difference between the US and UK versions.
• Stories from Legendary Sets:
  • Filming “Coneheads”—Dan Aykroyd’s on-set outburst and affinity for the supernatural.
• Industry Realities:
  • Tales of showbiz economics (“residuals” and small checks), frustrating auditions, being ‘let go’ from SNL, and the bittersweet nature of fame.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00–00:32] – Michael’s family vacation/Airbnb story
• [03:11–04:07] – Discussion of "Spinal Tap 2" and the famous “It goes to eleven” joke
• [21:03–22:28] – How Spinal Tap was written/improvised; developing the shooting ‘bible’
• [23:38–25:55] – Spinal Tap’s cult status and the long road to a sequel
• [29:55–30:28] – Dan Aykroyd’s on-set freakout and the mythology of the “Coneheads”
• [37:00–39:41] – Delving into impressions, SNL, and the invention of new comedic archetypes
• [41:12–42:13] – Discussing “The Thing,” “Alien,” and women in sci-fi/horror
• [60:20–61:05] – Paul McCartney sings a McKean song for the new film
• [62:42] – Best Beatles melody: “Martha, My Dear”
• [64:56–66:19] – Reflections on favorite Beatles songs and the idea of creative genius

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for comedy nerds, movie buffs, and anyone nostalgic for the golden age of character-driven comedy. With plenty of behind-the-scenes tidbits and heartfelt reverence for collaborators living and departed, it’s both a love letter to improv and mockumentary style and a deep dive into the creative process of making something that truly stands the test of time.

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For more, catch full episodes on YouTube (@flyonthewallpod), and send questions to [e-mail].

Transcript

[Michael McKean]

We used to go to Lake Ronan in Montana. Seven people and a small station wagon. And we stayed in these cabins where you could see through the walls.

[David Spade]

What does that mean? So thin.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, it was pretty. Pretty funky, but we liked it. But Lake Ronan in Montana off Flathead Lake would have been nice to get an Airbnb. And in that case, you could have had a little more variety. Maybe get a bunkhouse for all the kids so they could stay up all night and tell scary stories.

[David Spade]

Yeah, listen, it's a good idea.

[Michael McKean]

Most recently, it's kind of famous. People are talking about it with my Irish relatives, and they wanted. We wanted them to have their own place in town nearby. And there was an Airbnb there, and they loved it. In fact, I said, how was it? And they said, I can't believe it. Airbnb. It's a bigger place than we thought we'd ever have. But her.

[David Spade]

Yeah. You know, a lot of. I think everyone I know has done an Airbnb at some point. Also, you can take your own place and use it as an Airbnb. So a lot of people are doing that for extra cash, and that's not a bad idea. Think about it. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host make every.

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[Dana Carvey]

And then he started talking to me about what they had seen in the sky from just right here, really late at night. You know, when the storefront windows go out, you can really see all the action up there. I thought, God, I love you, Dan Ackler. The first time I spoke with Howard Stern, I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed. But I told him that. So we're good. I just spent the first part of the morning listening to Paul McCartney sing a song that I wrote. That's something that I never thought would happen to me.

[David Spade]

We got Michael McKeon, Dana, who's a friend of mine. We did the movie Conan together. We did SNL together. He's done 1 million things in show business. He's part of a lot of the Christopher Guest movies, namely Spinal Tap, which we are discussing the sequel coming out.

[Michael McKean]

Very exciting, Spinal Tap 2, which I'm excited to talk to him about that because I do think it's a great time. Bring it out. It just. The trailer I saw was super funny. So he's a great storyteller and that's. It's fun to have him.

[David Spade]

Yeah, he's great. We've had him once. They're having him again. You know, I thought was it would be a good title for a sequel. Dana.

[Michael McKean]

Yes.

[David Spade]

The End of the Beginning. It's kind of funny.

[Michael McKean]

I thought a sequel should be called It's One Higher.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

Two is more than one. Eleven.

[David Spade]

That's what he says in the movie, right?

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, it's one.

[David Spade]

We have our speakers. We.

[Michael McKean]

We.

[David Spade]

What do they do? They Write it to 11 so it.

[Michael McKean]

Feels higher, but it's still. It could be 10 full blast. It's like a little math quit. He goes, yeah, it's one higher. Why don't you make 10 the highest?

[David Spade]

Right? But it's one higher.

[Michael McKean]

This is in the trailer. It's one higher. You know, that's the base.

[David Spade]

Anyway, you'll crack up. Michael McKeon has a lot to say and. And here he is.

[Dana Carvey]

Am I early, boys?

[David Spade]

No way.

[Michael McKean]

I feel like I'm in a western and you just walked into the saloon. Am I?

[Dana Carvey]

That's stranger. I know you. Stranger.

[Michael McKean]

Rides Again. Destry with Audie Murphy. I think it was. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. It was Jimmy Stewart first. And I'll tell you, since you brought it up, yes, the guy who created Destry also created another famous character, Dr. Kildare.

[Michael McKean]

Really?

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. His name was Max Brand. Not his real name. His real name was Felix Foust. It gets weirder. But he wrote. He wrote Dest Re Rides Again and a couple of more starring him. And he created Dr. Kildare.

[David Spade]

I follow him on TikTok.

[Michael McKean]

This is the kind of. The thing that I. I didn't know about as a younger person. Like, okay, so Bob Odenkircher. We're doing a western, writing the script, and it comes out brilliant. It's so fucking funny. But it's really, really out there. You know, studio goes, what? And I just thought. I watch movies now and. And directors talk about it, obviously, Quentin Tarantino, like you would take Desiree Rise again. Because I play an Irish guy who's all heard of the west, and it's really fast with guns, but super humble. And I come to the town like this, you know, and John Lovitz is being. He's hanging. He's about to hang him. And he's next to signs that he put up. If you. If I don't clean up the town, you can hang me. You know, he won. So it was that kind of. It was great. But I look at the nuts and bolts of a guy coming off the stagecoach and everyone thinking he's kind of Faye, or whatever the word would be, and he's lethal. Anyway, I don't know whether I had. But you're. You're in a film. You make films. What don't you. You write songs, you sing.

[Dana Carvey]

What shut me up.

[Michael McKean]

What can.

[Dana Carvey]

Can I do? You mean at my age, what can't I do?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

As an artist, stray too far from.

[Dana Carvey]

The bathroom is the business.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

Michael used to always say, aunt Bladder, have you met my Aunt Bladder?

[David Spade]

She.

[Michael McKean]

She's a frisky one. She has a. She needs a lot of attention. But I'm saying. I tried to.

[David Spade]

I like that you switched.

[Dana Carvey]

Nice. Nice. So.

[Michael McKean]

So good to have you back.

[Dana Carvey]

Nice to have you.

[David Spade]

Michael might be our maybe second return guest. That's all. Second.

[Michael McKean]

Well, we had a slight delay. Last time. We were with a different. So now we have you just like this. We had a slight delay, which was very frustrating because you would go, you know what I hate? And then your mouth would move, and then you go, you see what I mean? And then we had to respond.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I just got off the line with three different people who were interviewing us, and we were in character as our Spinal Tap guys.

[Michael McKean]

Oh.

[David Spade]

Oh.

[Dana Carvey]

And so we had a little picture of this guy and watching him try and stretch 20 minutes worth of questions into 45 minutes worth of questions, because he had us for all that time. So we. We got to watch him thinking about the next question and then realizing. Realizing he was frozen.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

So anyway, you guys, you're a refreshing change from a. From a junket.

[David Spade]

Well, who gets a junket gets 45.

[Michael McKean]

That's been in the battle lines. I was in Spiny One. I don't know what the nickname is on that. I was in Spiny One as the mime waiter. And now, yes, you were.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, you were.

[Michael McKean]

And now you've been told this. But we're. The trailer is really funny. I love.

[Dana Carvey]

Good.

[Michael McKean]

Good for two.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you remember, do you remember the character that you came in for, the drummer? No. You came in to. There was a character in the original version when we were first working on it called the Tap Head. And he's just this guy who follows the band around and he kept showing up, and then we thought, he's a little overqualified to be that guy. We really need more of a found object. And then we, we had the idea for the, the mime thing and we. Let's get this guy. He's great. Now, you know who we did cast as the Tap head was Eddie Deason.

[Michael McKean]

Eddie Deason.

[Dana Carvey]

Anybody remember Eddie Deason from Greece? May have been in Grace.

[David Spade]

Was he then?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

Good choice.

[Dana Carvey]

In everything.

[David Spade]

He was he the nerd from 1965.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And he also. Historically, here's an interesting point. Probably not interesting at all. He was the earner of the 1 billionth dollar in residuals.

[David Spade]

Oh.

[Dana Carvey]

The 1 billionth dollar of trivia of payouts from residuals in motion pictures.

[David Spade]

And Michael was there to confetti or.

[Michael McKean]

How do they know there's a bar.

[David Spade]

Called Residuals for the people at home in the Valley. If you bring a check in for under a dollar, they put it on the wall.

[Dana Carvey]

Is that true?

[David Spade]

Free drink? Yeah, it's called Residuals. And it's in a little strip mall. And I've been there many times.

[Michael McKean]

No matter how small it is, if you ever look at a, you know, your monthly expenses and, and, you know, the debits and the credits, and you see a buck 30 for, for something you did, it's kind of like, all right, kicking it, man. They're paying.

[David Spade]

You know, my account I used to.

[Dana Carvey]

Get go, Are you sure?

[David Spade]

I'm the guest. I'm the guest. Let me go. So I, I, I get these checks from snl, like host Alec Bald and host Tom Hanks, and at their. Probably 3 cents each.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

But my accountant goes, can you just tell them to send you one check for a dollar? Because we have to process every single one of them. We got to put in like 300 checks. Just tell them to round it up to 5 bucks and call it one check.

[Michael McKean]

What were you. What's your residual story?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it's, it's, it's just, it's not that interesting. It's just I used to do the Pyramid game show back in the 70s. And so every time in the beginning of the $20,000 pyramid or whichever pyramid. They would have some celebrity wins. So they'd have me or Billy Crystal or, you know, Suzanne Summers, whoever it was, jumping up and down with the. The civilian that they just won the big money with. Yeah. So they'd show three of those, and I would get paid for those. I would get paid. And it was. Again, it was a 48 cents a pop or something, but it was sort of lovely. It was like, it's not only I'm. Not only I'm not in that show. I'm in the part of the show where people are just getting their coffee and sitting down. Nobody.

[David Spade]

It's like a montage.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[David Spade]

Yeah. You know, it's great is that it shows you that sag or the writer's guilt is working because someone's out there chasing to make sure they give you what you're supposed to get with whatever deal you made, which you don't even remember.

[Michael McKean]

I have a good one.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, go.

[Michael McKean]

So they're doing a. It's an animated thing, or it's dogs. I think it's actual dot. And you're. You do the voice. So a famous actor. I won't say really famous. They didn't like the way he did his reading, so they brought me in, but it was already his mouth was there, so I had to match his rhythms. And I kept saying, this isn't going to work. Isn't going to work. So they got someone else or whatever. But then somehow I got into getting checks. And these are tens of thousands of, oh, wow, dollar check.

[Dana Carvey]

That's excellent.

[Michael McKean]

And I said to my, you know, my people, I go, I'm getting these checks. And he said, just put it in a drawer. Don't tell anybody. I don't know how much I got, but it was big. And people are going to think like, well, what was the name of the movie? And who was the actor? But anyway, that's my. My residual story, I think I. So when you mike down these stories.

[David Spade]

Well, all three of our stories tepid, but that's fine. We're getting warmed up.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't have a better one.

[David Spade]

Okay, so bet. Mgm. Dana, you know, I'm. I'm a little bit of a gambler, and I do like football. And that's coming up. And BETMGM is some, you know, one of our partners. And it's great because for the football fans, if you register with BetMGM, you can keep the good times rolling all season long. This football season New customers can download the BetMGM app and sign up to receive up to $1,500 in bonus bets. Oh, I could use that with code Fly. If they don't win their first bet. If they don't.

[Michael McKean]

Yes, that's absolutely right, David. You get access to second chance promos, odds boost tokens and same game parlays. This is Michael Caine and I think it's a great deal, but MGM original match, special boost and tokens and so much more.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah, you know Michael, a lot of new features are coming soon like dark mode and also live same game parlays. From kickoff to the winning field goal. There's more ways than ever to supercharge your excitement.

[Michael McKean]

You're absolutely right. I must say, I must say I don't know why I like it so much, but I enjoyed the hard hitting American football thrills all season. Bet mgm. And you know, David, you won't want to miss it. It's absolutely amazing.

[Dana Carvey]

Right?

[David Spade]

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[Michael McKean]

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[David Spade]

All right, Dana. You know, I'm always dragging around and I always got a five hour energy on me.

[Michael McKean]

I know that.

[David Spade]

Yeah. They're either in my sock, in the car, they're somewhere.

[Michael McKean]

You keep them everywhere.

[David Spade]

I give them a little slurp. I don't really shoot the whole thing like some people do on an empty stomach. I think I eat a little bit, couple sips, just like coffee. Just keep, just keep something going.

[Michael McKean]

You don't chug it.

[David Spade]

I don't. I'm actually. Yeah, I don't want that much energy at once. It's five hours. So I kind of you know, that's what most people do, but I sip it. Overall, there's a lot of different flavors. Yeah. There's one called Confetti Craze that tastes like a good birthday cake, which they're all pretty good, but this tastes like.

[Michael McKean]

Vanilla and buttery flavor here to let you be unapologetically extra and unstoppably energized, actually.

[David Spade]

Big birthday energy. Wherever you go, there's shot. The shots are. Are reasonable. You don't have to chug a full bottle or anything. You just run around with that big birthday energy.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And you can plan your confetti party at www.5hourenergy.com or Amazon. That's available now. You know what I mean? So you can get on five hour energy. That's the number five hourenergy.com or Amazon. Unleash your big birthday party energy.

[Michael McKean]

As much caffeine as 12 ounces of your fancy coffee, but zero sugar and zero sugar crash. So, yeah.

[David Spade]

And I'm not like a coffee guy, so this is kind of better for me.

[Michael McKean]

You're a Five Hour Energy Confetti Craze guy. Five Hour Energy Confetti Craze flavor is available online. Head to www5hourenergy.com or Amazon to order yours today. What was the first time you knew you had a million dollars?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

What was the first year where you. God, I think I have a million dollars. You know, you don't have to answer that. I just. Coming off, I've always.

[Dana Carvey]

I don't really know. I don't really know. I mean, are you counting real estate?

[Michael McKean]

I don't know one actor until he got on Marvel, Paul Rudman, we were just asking him these kind of questions just for fun. And he just basically said, till Ant man, you know, he had his character parts, he was doing well. But you know how the taxes and all this stuff.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

And all these things that people take out of all the places. And so it was surprising. But you. You never know where it's going to come from. That's kind of a. What this way? What was the job that paid you way more than you thought you were going to get paid?

[David Spade]

Len?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, that was Lenny and Squiggy. That was. We started out, I wasn't even in sag. David Lander and. No, David Lander and I did those characters as part of the credibility gap. Harry Shearer and Richard Beebe.

[David Spade]

Oh, that's how it started.

[Michael McKean]

Oh. Before Laverne and Shirley were invented.

[Dana Carvey]

Before that. David and I did those characters in college at Carnegie in Pittsburgh.

[Michael McKean]

Jesus.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, so we. And nine years later, we did them on tv, so it was a little different. And they wanted to pay us. Like, it was not even a big deal. They couldn't get. They couldn't give me the part until they auditioned at least one SAG actor. And I'm going to tell you who it was.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, good.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it was a guy who. Who knew he wasn't going to get the part. It was already. No, we got this guy, but he doesn't have a SAG card. So we're going to. We have to audition somebody else. And would you do it? Tim Thomas. Do we remember Tim Thomas?

[Michael McKean]

I remember, of course. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Very, very sweet guy.

[Michael McKean]

Big, funny character.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had. He had a little part on Happy Days or something right next door. So they auditioned him knowing. And he knew. He knew, no, I'll read for it, you know, and it was him trying to do this guy, you know, It's.

[David Spade]

It's basically every audition I had because I just didn't get it. So I wish they told me ahead of time, you're just not going to get it. Because he walks out like this. At least he goes, here you go. I'll do you guys a favor. I'm doing basically right.

[Michael McKean]

I for sure did a hundred in a row where I didn't get it.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah. Oh, easy.

[Michael McKean]

In the early 80s. That's why when Spinal Tap. Oh, you didn't get it. And then they go, oh, they want you in the movie. You're going to be in a scene with Billy Crystal. At that time of my life that was like, that is good steakhouse, honey.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, the weirdest one was Howard Hessman. His part didn't even exist 24 hours before he shot it.

[Michael McKean]

Whoa.

[Dana Carvey]

We had hired, you know, the scene Howard Hessman in. In Spinal Tap, they're in the lobby, and he's the manager of this rocker who never really speaks.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

So we had hired this rock and roll guy, and we. While he was being fitted for wardrobe the day before, we realized the guy could barely fucking talk. He just not only couldn't act, he was just like kind of pre verbal and scared shitless.

[Michael McKean]

So, Rob, long hair, pre verb.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, exactly. And Rob goes, you know what we should do? We should get him a manager. I'm going to call Howard Hessman. So we called Hessman, talked to him for about 10 minutes on the phone, and Howard came in, aced it for Smart. Just brilliant, man.

[David Spade]

Great adjusting while you go, like, those things happen. No one knows about it.

[Dana Carvey]

I had to do that. Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

Well, that was that whole movie. And I'm wondering about the style of this one. I assume it's the same. You've got Rob Reiner and that was the sense that you guys, I guess there was more than a. There was an actual script. It wasn't just bullet points and you'll improvise. But how much improvisation was there? Or was it very specific? Then the first one and then this one.

[Dana Carvey]

There were two written lines in the first film. Live, Live, direct from hell. Spinal Tap was written. The guy at the very beginning. And Patrick. Patrick McNees. Toast. And so say we all tap into America. That was written. Everything else was improvised.

[Michael McKean]

That's what I thought. You know, that's what I.

[David Spade]

You pitch that and they go, there's a movie there. Build it around it.

[Dana Carvey]

We pitched us. We pitched one where we said, yeah, we'll write the script. And we tried for about a day and a half to write the script. And we said, man, this is not fun. And it's not going to yield what we want. We want it to be like. It's a thing that's really happening. So we said, well, let's just. Nice thick Bible of who these guys are, who they've been throughout the years, what their relationships are now. And then go. And we broke it down. We got a big map of the US and we. We tagged the route, the route of the tour with post it notes and wrote a lot of things on the back of Grimsby's, we called them because they were postcards that had pictures of Roger Grimsby, the ABC newscaster on them. And she remembered that we used to trade them as kids, right? And so we wrote the whole movie on the back of these Grimsbys. And that was, you know, some jokes, you know, some. Like, maybe try this. And.

[David Spade]

Well, yeah, I'm sure you go. You have to kind of beat it out and going, no, no, now the beginning's too heavy. We're not. We don't. Or just done in the editing, like, you go get as much as we can everywhere, and it's five hours or something. Then you got to start going, what's important?

[Michael McKean]

You just feel it for comedy. And if you have guys that are extremely talented. Sorry I had to say that, but it might be embarrassing, but it was just so popped so hard, you know, it just won higher. And all this stuff. All you guys did. I. Kevin Pollock and I did a cockney British or sort of a Spinal Tap accent. Whenever for like, couple years, we actually played blackjack. We were playing Harrah's and we were up there just, you know, doing all talk like that, you know, going, we're just possessed by that movie, like a lot of people. And so I was thrilled, and I'll. I'll let you talk after this that there's a sequel now, because it's the perfect time because all these other bands are out there long in the tooth. And so it, like, it wouldn't have been a sequel in the 80s, wouldn't it? This is very funny. And that's why it really hit me hard, like, oh, this is what.

[Dana Carvey]

What.

[Michael McKean]

Who they are now is so funny. So anyway, talk to that.

[Dana Carvey]

You have. You have to understand one other thing. When the film came out, you probably know this, it was not a huge box office success.

[Michael McKean]

No.

[Dana Carvey]

And it didn't really find its legs until it took off on home video. And people would talk about it like it was, oh, you got to see this weird comedy. And so we kind of. We kind of picked up a little steam that way. So three or four years down the line, they started talking about doing a sequel. And we said, no, I think we told the tale. I think we. We got it. We briefly talked about doing a. Making a film that purportedly had happened 20 years before in the 60s when they were young pop stars and there was this piece of shit exploitation film built around them about the Personas, which was a funny idea, but we were all cresting 40 at that point to say, no, they don't have the tech to make us look any younger. So they do now. But, yeah, the other thing is, timing wise, we did not have the rights to this material. We had to make phone calls and make deals with people to go Spinal Tap, to record a Spinal Tap, make personal appearances and, you know, in some. Make some foreign commercials, so. Which didn't amount to much. We had to make these deals. And so Harry Shearer, who has what we call Simpsons money.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

He says, guys, I'll do. I'll do the. I'll do the stuff. We're gonna sue him. We're gonna get the rights back. And we did. And we did. And then we said, well, now it's like the. The dog who chases the car. He finally catches what they do.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Now movie, I guess. So we, you know, we made this film and it was kind of the reunion. The read the guys are dragged kicking and screaming to a. To a reunion. They really have no regard for one another. A lot of bad blood. And we thought maybe that'd be the premise and do a big show and Maybe get some guest stars in which we were very lucky. That area people jump in. It kind of had.

[David Spade]

For sure.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it was fun.

[Michael McKean]

And also just minimal script or outline and just plant being playful.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Did you because three lines of this.

[Michael McKean]

Because Spinal Tap exists, then you're doing Spinal Tap 2. What was the mindset of that? Like, let's go to where we go before. Now we're doing something different. Or it was just instantly different because 40 year. 40 years makes it different, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it's also where the characters are now. 40 years down the road of having this hatchet job, which we assumed. He only shot the. He only showed us with the bad. He only showed us when things were going wrong. He only showed us when we couldn't find the stage and all this stuff. What about the night we could find the stage? So we, we had a lot of animosity and alleged lawsuits and everything. But then we're reunited with Marty deburge, we make the best of a bastard bad situation and we just go ahead and make the film.

[Michael McKean]

I, I, I still to this day, I don't know if I'm at a theater or something, get tangled up or kind of lost. I said, I always say I feel like I'm in Spinal Tap. Yeah, it is one of those things that is a real thing. But it was so funny the way you guys did it in the movie.

[David Spade]

I play theaters. I think I'm in Kandahar. I'm like underneath. And they go, this was built 100 years ago. I go, men them, mum. And there's no. They're like, there's no working water. There's no elevators. We just sort of wing it.

[Michael McKean]

Well, then you, you ask the guy, you go, excuse me. Because you don't. It's of kind, kind of passive aggressive. But is there a way to get to the stage? Because I'm going on. Oh, you, oh, you want to go on the stage? Oh, you go down, you know.

[David Spade]

Yeah. I hear my intro music. They're like, oh, that's. You go up these hundred steps. I'm always winded.

[Dana Carvey]

Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton actually had that experience together. They were playing at B.B. king's 75th birthday party at the Apollo and they got lost beneath the stage. And then Jeff said, yeah, at one point we just looked at each other and went, we're in that movie.

[David Spade]

So you guys just thought of that, or was it based on something like that that happened to somebody?

[Dana Carvey]

It just seemed funny. I don't remember what the source for.

[David Spade]

Sure those theaters are so it did show up.

[Dana Carvey]

It did show up in a Tom Petty documentary where they got. It was this huge German entertainment complex and in Stuttgart or someplace. And they kept walking into tennis courts and stuff. But that happened after the movie. That's. But not. But before the movie came out, we had shot the film and then we saw the Tom Petty and. Oh, we got that right.

[David Spade]

Sometimes they say, you don't want to go through the crowd. Right? And I'm like, go. Before I go, I'd rather not. And I go, okay, we can figure this out. And then they're. They don't.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

So you're like in the kitchen, then you're in the pantry, and then you're in the attic. And I'm like, we're trying to get to the stage. Right. I don't know what you guys are doing. I'm trying to. I got a show in about three minutes, so. And it makes you nervous because you're about to go on and you want to. I have to think about my high quality jokes. You know, they are high quality.

[Dana Carvey]

You have high quality jokes.

[David Spade]

I changed it. Yeah. I went, Michael and I spent a really nice chunk of time on Coneheads where I tried to give him the measles. No, chickenpox.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, my God.

[David Spade]

Do you remember this story? I think I told you that I was. I whispered to the pa, don't tell anyone. But I think I have. I do have the chickenpox. So we're gonna try to keep this kind of. He's like, oh, for sure. Boop. Alarms. So clear the set. And then I only had him, like. It was so weird. Anyway, we talked with Nick Kroll yesterday. We were talking about Coneheads because I said you were coming on. We all start laughing about Coneheads and how many people were in and how many celebrity cameos. It's pretty crazy.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And. And how we were kind of the bad guys in that. But there. It was pretty fun to do. It was kind of. It was really fun to be a part of Dan Aykroyd doing cone heads again and all that stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

So do you remember the day that he lost his temper and tore his head off?

[David Spade]

I just do this second.

[Dana Carvey]

He had some friends coming, and they got. They tied him up at the gate. Wouldn't let in. Wouldn't let the guys in. It was a couple of his biker pals, as I recall. So he heard about this. God damn it. God damn it. He curses so like a Canadian. God damn it. And he reached up and he ripped the top of his Head off.

[David Spade]

And.

[Dana Carvey]

And I thought, man, if this.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And it was just this white foam.

[David Spade]

Rubber under foam everywhere. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Scary. Yeah. And looking like that, he went out to the, you know, the booth there, the guard gate, and he ripped the phone off the wall.

[Michael McKean]

Ah, he's pretty big.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm making this up. He's big guy. Yeah.

[David Spade]

And that solved everything. Yeah. And Dan doesn't get mad, too. I mean, we did that home.

[Dana Carvey]

No, no, no.

[David Spade]

See it.

[Michael McKean]

No, he's Canadian. Mellow, sweetheart. You know. You know. You know, the. The. The houses are haunted. You know, there's a cult of a spy. You know, he loves outer space, and it's fun to be around a guy. That talent that I. Talented and iconic. And he really wants to talk about, you know, the other things and haunted rooms. And he's very passionate about it. But. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah. No, no. Oh, believe me, no, there is proof. There is proof. His. His brother. His brother lived right above the Chateau Marmont, Peter.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I think we went after shooting one. Maybe you were with us. We went to watch Date. Not Dateline. What's the show? Night. Nightline, the ABC show, whatever. The.

[Michael McKean]

In the early days.

[Dana Carvey]

And so he said, we're all going to go look, we're going to watch Ted Koppel, but come on over to the house first, and we'll go up on Peter's roof and maybe we'll try some of this stuff that we got. It's a. It's a. It's some real buffalo weed, he called it. So. And it was. It was three tokes, and I was catatonic. But I do remember not being able to speak or move. And he comes up and he's, michael, Ted Koppel's on. So we're gonna go watch Ted Koppel. Would you like to come down with us? He was, like, afraid I was gonna, like, levitate or something. And I said, no, I'm. I'm good here. I'm good here. And then he started talking to me about what they had seen in the sky from just right here, really late at night. You know, when the storefront windows go out, you can really see all the action up there and that. God, I love you, Dan Aykroyd.

[David Spade]

He's so great. He goes there. You see him every day. You saw him one at the Grove today at Zara. They're here.

[Michael McKean]

You know, you go in the room and you know that it's haunted. And you don't want to be afraid because, you know, the spirits are not giving off that vibe. You Know, I don't think I've ever thrown any costume off in a, in a, in a fit. Have you ever torn any. Well, Garth, you know, when you're on snl, Lauren, I'm telling you.

[Dana Carvey]

No, no, I haven't. I was there. I was there for such a short period of time. Yes. That it was really like I was kind of bright, breaking the job in just as I was handed the walking papers, you know, So I did. Never quite sure of whether I had any power or not.

[Michael McKean]

How many shows did you do?

[Dana Carvey]

26.

[Michael McKean]

Like a full. A little bit.

[David Spade]

Was that a season? And more.

[Dana Carvey]

It was a season. It was the last six of the season before.

[David Spade]

So was Mark McKinney with you?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. In the middle of the second season. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

One of the, one of the nicest men in the world, right?

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Dana Carvey]

Awesome guy. Awesome guy. Another Canadian. It must be something in the water.

[Michael McKean]

Wife's Canadian.

[Dana Carvey]

No. Full disclosure. That's it.

[Michael McKean]

My wife. My wife's from Canada. Born in Canada.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, my, Mine's from Texas, so.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, okay. Whoa, whoa. What does that mean?

[David Spade]

I don't know whatever that means.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it means nothing. I mean, she knows where. Knows where the good Mexican food is in Houston. So it's a big plus as far as I'm concerned.

[Michael McKean]

So you got. How do you, how do you get.

[David Spade]

Let go of snl? What happens?

[Dana Carvey]

You know what it was. They were just kind of cleaning house. They kept you.

[David Spade]

We had a lot of people, though. There was. That was one of those years with like 22 people were involved.

[Michael McKean]

This is 94. 5 kind of.

[Dana Carvey]

Or 94. 5. Yeah. And they know Farley was, was leaving. Adam was leaving.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And I'll tell you this. I always say this. I followed the very best impression of Clinton was Paul. Phil. Phil Hartman.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, Phil.

[Dana Carvey]

Easily the best ever. I followed his with mine, which was just sort of an overweight Barney. Barney Fife. It wasn't, it wasn't a good Clinton. And I was followed by. I was followed by Daryl, who did the second best.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, Daryl has an ear.

[Dana Carvey]

So, you know, I, I, Part of it was being hired to, to play your dad, David, to be the older presence that they were going to miss when Phil left. But, you know, Phil took a lot more with him than just one thing. He was remarkable.

[Michael McKean]

You guys ever have things that pop up that you, you sort of are somewhere in your mind of. You feel. Had a weird feeling about it. So I had it with you when I was guest hosting. It's late in the show. I'm Overwhelmed. I don't know if between dressing air or the day of the show, but Lauren and you came in and you had a really good Howard Stern. And it was like I was interested in doing that, and I was just too overwhelmed to say yes. But I felt. It felt strange to me when I think of it now because of you, my fondness for you and I. And also that you were incredibly famous when I was still a waiter, basically. So Laverne and Shirley. So anyway, I don't know if you remember that, you know, but don't. I never heard your Howard Stern, but.

[Dana Carvey]

I did Howard on the fifth show of the first six that I did.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

And it went really. Went really well, and Howard loved it. And he. You know, I've been on his show a bunch of times before, and I have a pretty good. I always had a pretty good relationship with him because I told him the first time I spoke with Howard Stern, I said, you must know going in that I think all morning men on the radio should be killed. But I told him that. So we're. We're good.

[Michael McKean]

He would love that. Yeah, for sure.

[Dana Carvey]

And he did. He did love the impression, which was nice. And I wasn't eager to jump right in with. With more Howard Stern. I was. I wanted to do a lot of different stuff. Sure. You know, I had. And, you know, I had. I think I pitched one other thing, but I. I didn't love the idea of anybody kind of like, if I remember anything about that moment, it's that it felt thrown in.

[Michael McKean]

And I think it was kind of a Hail Mary or last minute to fill some gap or something.

[David Spade]

Or something. Something happened.

[Dana Carvey]

I don't. Don't remember.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

You know, you had a good move, which was. I always remember a tiny thing about Stern. When he laughs, you go, it was a different thing. I hadn't heard. Yeah. I was like, oh, that's right. When you hear stuff like that and you. I listen to him so much, and I go, oh, no one's done that. That's great. Now it's hard to find those little tiny hooks.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm. I'm not a big impression guy. I mean, I did, like, five people total on, you know, but I did do the best George Will. You know, Dana's. Dana's. George Will is excellent, too.

[Michael McKean]

I remember hearing that, you know, I mean, in recent times, like Kate McGinnon, which was very funny. I mean, she would be doing somebody who was the mayor of New York during 9 11. Sorry.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Giuliani.

[Michael McKean]

Giuliani. And she would just. She'd play him like a Batman character, like, I'm Giuliani and she does. So there was like true impressionism, if you take it almost like art or abstractionism, like, I'm not even going to attempt, but I'm going to do something that feels. Feels like this guy. And I always loved impressions that aren't super accurate, but have something about them that's even better than the actual. Because now, as you know, news flash, AI could do the greatest. AI is the greatest impressionist in the world if copying gonna kill us all.

[David Spade]

And you also.

[Dana Carvey]

That's what I love about. About Bill Hader's impressions is it's. They're always accurate enough to make you go, oh, he's nailing. And you realize he's. He's going to go a little wide with it, and it's going to stay his Vincent Price or his Keith Morrison.

[Michael McKean]

Keith Morrison because of that weird, like, devilish smile, like he was taking so much glee in it. So that, yeah, we. We love Bill Hader. He's. You know, he's.

[David Spade]

At the beginning of snl, they would have Chevy Chase, which some people remember in the old days did. Or they would. He would do Gerald Ford as himself. He would just say, I'm the president. I'd wear a suit here. And. And I think, yeah, Ackroyd was the same thing. So now it's so good. Those departments of making you look 99. Like the person already.

[Michael McKean]

Well, just get.

[Dana Carvey]

No one suggested that. That Dan shave his mustache. So he was mixing with a mustache and, you know, and they couldn't talk him out of. Out of the stash.

[David Spade]

That was probably coming from like, improv or something where you go, right. Went with the bike. But, like, he's an improv. They just get up and go, you're doing this and this. And they go, we don't need all that. Yeah, makeup.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, there's a reminder about. I'm reading a book now by Jeffrey Sweet, and it's a re. It's a. A revamped version of a book he. He wrote in 78 called Something Wonderful Right Away, which is the story of Second City, starting with the Compass Players before starting with Viola Spolin. You know, really the early days where you were lucky to have a, you know, a chair and a. And a table. And, you know, I think that that's what you said is very true. Nobody's. Nobody's expecting us to look exactly like Nixon at this point. I'm doing my really funny Nixon, and it Worked. Yeah, and it works. And it was great because you didn't.

[David Spade]

Know they could do all this makeup. And then suddenly, just over time, it just evolves and it's very good.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

By the way, you did. You did the Invisible man with Chevy Chase. Is that true?

[Dana Carvey]

I did, yeah.

[David Spade]

How was that? That's. That wasn't. That was right when. It was during his full heyday. He's a big star.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it was 92, I guess. I remember when that came out and it was. It was John Carpenter, who I really liked a lot. We had a lot of fun because I was a big fan of, you know, of his stuff. The thing especially.

[Michael McKean]

No, I was just gonna say the best. Yeah, the thing is maybe the best.

[Dana Carvey]

Science fiction horror film of all time.

[David Spade]

Is that right?

[Michael McKean]

I would have no argument with that. Wilfred Brimley, it was first time. Just this brilliant presence and Kurt Russell.

[Dana Carvey]

And Dickie Mazar and all these horrible dogs who would explode on us and stuff. It was just great.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

I actually got into it and I said, I'm gonna tell you why that movie wasn't a hit. Because there's no girls in it. Girls are not going to go see this movie unless there's a dame in trouble, unless they have someone to pull for. This is a bunch of bros who are getting their asses kicked from the inside by these horrible creatures. There was no. No woman in trouble. And he thought about it. He goes, no, no, it's.

[Michael McKean]

Well, you know what? You know what? Kind of a sister movie, in some ways different, but it was Alien during that era and they had Sigourney Weaver in her little panties at the end to calm herself down. I just love that movie too, man.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

You like movies?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I do, I do. I saw a good movie on the plane called Black Bag and it's Cate Blanchett.

[David Spade]

Saw it.

[Dana Carvey]

Soderbergh. Yeah, yeah. And one thing I really liked about. It's a very complicated spy thing with a lot of, you know, where's your loyalties? And all this stuff. And there's married couples and there's couples who are seeing each other and. And they're all involved in this. Some one of us is a real shitbag here. And it's an hour and 33 minutes.

[Michael McKean]

Thank you, Jesus week.

[Dana Carvey]

We can watch something else now or we can take a nap. Not every movie has to be two and a half hours.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

So. But they are very much.

[Michael McKean]

They are no add in previews.

[David Spade]

Get lost.

[Michael McKean]

I was in a 70 minute movie called Master Disguise. Sort of a bizarre kids film that's a whole story behind 70. 70 minutes was cut down and then you have 15 minutes of outtakes. Yeah, the credit roll was 15.

[David Spade]

Not bad, though.

[Dana Carvey]

And it was Jennifer Esposito's first really good role.

[Michael McKean]

She was a. Yeah, she's very likable, really.

[Dana Carvey]

Like, she just directed a film she directed last year. Didn't get much of a release, but it's. It's not bad. It's. It's really pretty good. I think she's.

[Michael McKean]

How do movies get seen and released? I mean, it's just. It's hard to. There's so much. I don't know what. What's. What are you two. Do wife. Watch stuff together, like live streaming shows that you like? Did you. You know, what are the recent ones? I'm always looking for something everyone like Code of.

[Dana Carvey]

Code of silence. Code of silence on Britbox. Very good. Very.

[Michael McKean]

Okay. I haven't seen that tell you anything about it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. No, it's good. It's good silence. What else do we like?

[David Spade]

Yeah, well, we like Money to Burn.

[Michael McKean]

We like John Ham's one was good on Apple.

[David Spade]

Like John Friends and Neighbors.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, I thought. I thought it was a great use. Just like a perfect part for John, you know?

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Michael McKean]

And he was great in it. Is great in it.

[David Spade]

I started that Alien Earth, but I don't know. You have to be into Alien.

[Dana Carvey]

I know, I know. It seems.

[David Spade]

You don't have to have seen the first 14.

[Michael McKean]

Okay. Brit box. I know. Brit box. What was the name of it again? Code something.

[Dana Carvey]

Code of Silence.

[Michael McKean]

Code of Silence. Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm gonna go for a lot of.

[David Spade]

Great bag after this.

[Dana Carvey]

A lot of great. Yeah. Black bag's excellent too. Yeah. Who is.

[David Spade]

I got a question. Who is in Earth Girls Are Easy. Was that Jim Carrey?

[Dana Carvey]

Jim Carrey. Damon Wayne.

[David Spade]

Damon Wayans.

[Dana Carvey]

Yep. Jeff Goldblum. They were. They were the three.

[David Spade]

They were the three leads. And they were aliens.

[Dana Carvey]

They were aliens who cleaned up their act. And Gina. Gina Davis. Gina Davis, of course, the girl. She was the girlfriend. And Julie Brown was kind of the set. The sidekick. Oh, she wrote the film for herself. Yeah. No, no, not that.

[David Spade]

No, no, no, that's up.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm talking like brown hair.

[David Spade]

I know who. I know what you're talking about.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah. She did a very funny Madonna parody.

[David Spade]

No, I remember.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Medusa. Yeah. She was really great and is great. Yeah, she wrote it. And the very sad. The very sad. Charlie Rocket was also in it.

[Michael McKean]

Charlie, I'm not gonna tell.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm not gonna tell his sad story. But you can. You can find it one of the.

[Michael McKean]

Best show business names you could ever. If it was a real name. Charlie Rocket.

[Dana Carvey]

And he was fired from SNL because.

[David Spade]

F word, right?

[Michael McKean]

F word on.

[Dana Carvey]

On the air. Yeah. Huh? Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

I would have. I would have kept him.

[David Spade]

I fought for him.

[Michael McKean]

One thing I. I was just curious about to. Our basic theme of Spinal Tap 2 is how much you guys interacted as friends or whatever, or did concerts or charity events or, you know, did gigs. How much were you in touch with this brand over the years? You. Commercials or whatever. What were. When were you. What did you do during this time period with Smile Tap, if anything?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, we made. Well, we did A Mighty Wind and our characters from A Mighty Wind did a couple of drop in dates.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, okay. Okay. I did see Mighty Wind.

[David Spade]

Great again.

[Dana Carvey]

And we were the folksman for that. And we went on the road in something we called Unwigged and Unplugged, where we played acoustic guitars mainly. And we did songs from Spinal Tap, from Waiting For Guffman, from A Mighty Wind and various other sources. And it was really fun. It was a lot of fun. Waiting for Golf, we did that in 09.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. Those are all just brilliant. I mean, that's kind of an interesting. Because in direction like. So now Christopher Guest is in this, you know, documentary, Spinal Tap again. Is. Is he more in a directorial kind of feel or is he just one of the cast or who is actually directing? It's. Is it Rob Reiner? No, he's the fake director. Who's the. Real.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, in Spinal Tap it was Rob directing the film. Chris's films. You notice there's you. We never see who's making the film.

[Michael McKean]

Right.

[Dana Carvey]

Whereas in Spinal Tap we meet Marty Duvergi. See him as a character.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

So Chris. Chris is a fly on the wall, you know, and his style has been picked up by, oh, five out of ten sitcoms on the air and waiting to.

[David Spade]

To.

[Dana Carvey]

To get on the air. Real easy way to shortcut. It's a way to, to shortcut your story.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Get your exposition out of the way by saying, I thought he was lying to me. But then, you know, and you know, and stuff. So sometimes it works great. I really like St Dennis Medical with Wendy. Wendy Covington on it. And Damon. No, no. Oh, sorry. David Alan Greer is on it and he's amazing. He's become this, this other presence. I mean, he's such a wonderful actor and. And he's become this really Kind of crusty old guy who's also got a. Kind of a heart of gold, but you really. You kind of. They lean into both of them so hard. It's. It's kind of beautiful. I like that show very much. But some of them. It looks. And Parks and Rec obviously works, but when it really. When it looks like. And more and more you see this. When it looks like they're just taking shortcuts to tell the story, you know, then it's. Then it's. What is the camera doing here?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

You know.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Michael McKean]

They used to call them testimonials. Right. That would be kind of. I don't know what the word.

[David Spade]

Confessionals.

[Michael McKean]

Confessionals.

[David Spade]

I think Modern Family.

[Michael McKean]

Right.

[David Spade]

I mean, I would get pictures of shows and it would always be like, what if you did it docu style, whatever it's called.

[Dana Carvey]

And you go, yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Michael McKean]

And does it predate the Office?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, the original is a little different.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Ricky says that he did base the style of it on Spinal Tap, but he. But it's a scripted show. Yeah, he went about it differently because. Yeah, but he's. I mean, he. He perfected it. I resisted the American Office, even though I liked a lot of the people on it. I said, it's not going to be like the. And it's not like the original. It's a. David. It's. David Brandt is different than. Michael and I revisited the English Office lately, and it's. It's even more embarrassing than you remember. It's even more cringy and sad and heartbreaking, and it's like the Office was a brighter show and it's hilarious. You know, I didn't follow it straight through, but I dropped it. Every time I see an episode of the American Office makes me laugh. There's great people on it.

[David Spade]

You're right. It's a little brighter.

[Michael McKean]

Carell's character is, you know, seminal. Just that character and how wounded he is and how clueless he is. And it was so in Steve's wheelhouse. I mean, he just owned it.

[Dana Carvey]

But it's very much the. It's very much the American version of that guy.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, it's. It's a different world and it's. And the second season of the British Office is. The first season has been on. This guy's a little bit famous and he's trying to get his job back. So the second season is just crushing. It's just false. And he's sort of a celebrity that nobody particularly likes, and it's just. He keeps trying to exploit it and it's just, oh God, darling.

[David Spade]

It's probably too rough for American tv. It's probably like too sad for network tv. Yeah, too much going on. That is really like deep dark comedy but not as sellable, but that's a good option.

[Dana Carvey]

And also on BBC, it's okay if you make 12 shows. It's okay if you walk away after 12 faulty towers. Even though it's a brilliant, brilliant show, it's like, no, we're done. And they say okay in America. You go, what are you talking about? We can get out of this, you know, and sometimes it's not always the best choice.

[David Spade]

It feels like a 12 episode show will do 90.

[Michael McKean]

There's a little Boris Karloff. Sometimes it's not the best choice.

[David Spade]

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[Michael McKean]

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[David Spade]

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[Michael McKean]

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[David Spade]

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[Michael McKean]

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[David Spade]

Hotel Cachava is one of our sponsors. And this is sort of a drink. You get a lot of benefits, a lot of protein A lot of everything. A lot of animal protein.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

I drink cachava. I wasn't aware of it. They sent it to me and now, you know, during my day, I am on the go. I don't have to tell you.

[Michael McKean]

You do. You're. You're always busy and you need. You need sustenance, you need nutrition, you need protein.

[David Spade]

I'm gonna blow away. I.

[Michael McKean]

So I. Dandelion.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I'm a little dandelion. I've lost about 3 pounds lately. I didn't mean to, but I'm trying to put it back and just rock hard muscle, so good plan. Cachava has a lot of flavors. They have a new strawberry flavor. Right?

[Dana Carvey]

Strawberry.

[David Spade]

It's got real strawberry and it's got real benefits. You know, the strawberry is great. I am old school and do chocolate. What I do is I chocolate. I put a spoonful of almond butter. Yeah. And not even a full banana. I don't want it too sweet. I want to cheat. You don't want everything tasting like candy. You know what I mean?

[Michael McKean]

No. Chai is always an interesting kind of flavor I find shy because it's spicy and kind of sweet, you know, I mean, you just have to try it, you know, you got your matcha and your coconut acai. I. I now pronounce that properly.

[David Spade]

I call it aka 25 grams of plant protein.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Antioxidants. And got all the good stuff.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, all good. All good stuff.

[David Spade]

So, you know, you get it. And it keeps me kind of full, you know, so I not like super full, but I'm saying a good, good one. Then I go along and I usually have to eat all the time, and I'm like, oh, I haven't eaten for a while, so that's good. It doesn't. I don't get all shaky, so I keep my eye on it. But I gave my brother one of them because he wanted it. So now I got him hooked on it. So I think it's got, you know, it's got 6 grams of fiber and good for mind and body.

[Michael McKean]

It's a comprehensive all in one meal. I mean, think protein shake, meal replacement, greens plus veggies, vitamins and minerals, you know, so it's like a guiltless thing.

[David Spade]

Where you go, I'm hungry. I don't want to just eat some trash. Garbage.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. See, it's something healthy like this. And then it just smooths you out, calms you down. And you don't have to. You're not like all jittery and you're just Calm.

[David Spade]

You've never tasted strawberry like this. So go to kachava.com use code fly for 15 off your order. That's Kachava K A C-H-A-V-A.com code fly for 15 off. Dana, before we let this young man go, I do have to say Waiting for Government, we know we're not talking about enough, but let's just. We all know that. Unbelievable. And Parker was in a lot of your movies, right? She's in a lot of those. So funny. And Parker's got a.

[Dana Carvey]

Discovered her for that.

[David Spade]

Oh, it's great.

[Dana Carvey]

And she's turning it. She's such a wonderful actress. I don't know whether you saw the. Oh, it was about this. God. It was a documentary. And then they. They did a. A multi part scripted show about this woman fell down the stairs or she was killed, all this stuff. And she played this prosecutor, I think, and she was wonderful because she was like, man, she's trying really hard. This process. She's just. Is she not competent? And they were let in a little bit more in her life. And she's a woman alone with a bottle at night. And it's like she was heartbreaking.

[David Spade]

I remember that. I can't remember the name of it.

[Dana Carvey]

I think it's called the Stairway or the Stairs, mate. Yeah, stairs or something.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

I know one thing about.

[Dana Carvey]

I was not in. I was not in Waiting for Government, but I worked on some of the music. I wrote one of the songs with Chris.

[David Spade]

I was gonna read some more movies you weren't in.

[Michael McKean]

If you got a second, I'll name drop Larry. Larry David was on. On this podcast and just talking about his method and his show Curb. And he said the main thing he always looked for is that no one was trying to be funny. And I think that the Spinal Tap, obviously that and all those other movies, there was just this. No one was signaling that they're being funny. I mean, it gave it that. Whatever you call it, it just made it pop and it made it made it way funnier, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, good, good. John Cleese had a line about what farce is. What's a farce? He said, well, a farce is what happens to you on the worst day of your life. It should be a terrible, terrible thing you're going through, otherwise it's not going to be funny. The situation shapes it. All you can do is be the real guy and do your best. So, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

And you guys flat straight. So in this Spinal Tap, is there anything you want People who are listening to say about it, or you enjoy doing it, or it's.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, we really did. I would say that if you would just off of what we were talking about. Paul McCartney is really good in this movie, and he plays Paul McCartney, but he plays like a legit, A legit version of Paul with a kind of, a. Kind of a hidden, spiny backbone. And it's really pretty amazing. Elton's the same way, but he's, you know, he's like a parade coming down your street. It's a slightly different thing. He's. He's great. And so deadpan in the, in the interview stuff that Rob does with him. So, you know, sometimes the person who's not exactly an actor is exactly the actor.

[Michael McKean]

You know, Can I just. I, I want it in my mind's eye, like. So Paul's here today and he comes on and wherever you're filming this, and do you run it without cameras or do you just say. Or you do it like Larry, Garry Shandling used to do? I'll say something like this. You'll say, how. How did that work with Paul?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, we, we, we kind of. We just knew he was going to do something in the show. He was very enthusiastic about it, and we had a lot of zoom conversations about it, but we really didn't nail down what his, his thing was going to be about. But he came down to New Orleans and we, you know, we said, well, what if it's this thing that David St. Hubbins, my guy, is pitching, and the rest of the band really kind of hate it, and he comes in, he comes in, he sides with them. So then it becomes this kind of bristly moment.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And so it works them. But as, as a songwriter and as a guy who's been at this particular, this particular project since 1980, I just spent the first part of the, of the morning listening to Paul McCartney sing a song that I wrote. That's something that I never thought would happen.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, wow.

[Dana Carvey]

And it was like I, I was just, I was almost made me go. But my character had to be more like, oh, yeah, what can, what else can you show me, David? David is very enthusiastic about it, but then when things go south, they go south. Because this guy's got a big ego. And so does Paul.

[David Spade]

Love it.

[Dana Carvey]

His is healthier than mine. Mine's full of rot. His is full of good cheese.

[David Spade]

It's not even a bucket list thing, because you would never even think that would happen, I'm sure.

[Dana Carvey]

No, no, no. But it was it was pretty remarkable.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

I heard Paul on a podcast talking about filming up to. It's just, you know, we were down there, you know, the guys were there, and I saw. So, hey, what's all this, you know, talking like that?

[Dana Carvey]

You know?

[Michael McKean]

And they go, we got it. I goes, that it? And I'll see you later. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

So I. I wanted to sneak that in. I like doing Paul now.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, Paul did. Paul did the best thing for me. I just did Glengarry Glen Ross on Broadway with Oden Kirk and.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Culkin, Bill and Bill Burr. And it was like the. It was the Marx Brothers version of Glengarry Glen Ross. It was. That sounds very funny. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And Paul came to the show, and so he comes downstairs to the dressing rooms, and so he comes walking in, and we had just worked together, you know, eight months before or whatever, and he comes up in front of everybody. He comes up to me, he gives me this big hug. And someone almost like an offstage loop says, oh, you know each other. And Paul says, oh, yeah, we're in movies together.

[Michael McKean]

That's a perfect Paul McCartney thing to say. And then he's.

[Dana Carvey]

He was already. He was already going to heaven. But this guarantee.

[Michael McKean]

What's a better song? And I love her. Let it be. She's leaving home. I'm just doing Paul melody songs, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

Martha, My Dear is his greatest melody.

[David Spade]

Wow.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, because it just keeps going. It's a long melody loop.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Yeah, It's. It's like a. It's like a really elaborate Show Tune in 2 and a half minutes. And it's. It's just. Musically, it's. It's brilliant. But all those others, pretty damn good.

[David Spade]

All those are fine, too.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, we like them.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, this is my new house. The last time I talked to you guys, I was. I was in the magic crafts closet, or my rugrats closet, as I called it, which is where I went.

[Michael McKean]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

Record Rugrats during the shutdown. So I was in there with a lot of knitting.

[Michael McKean]

I. I did have notes from the last time I said, where was he? So now I know.

[David Spade]

Yeah, he went to a place with no wi fi. He's like, where can I go?

[Dana Carvey]

No.

[Michael McKean]

So is this your man? Is this where all your stuff is? Your guitars?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I got my little keybo here. Yeah, I do recording here. And. And I hide out from the world and from the air conditioning. Apparently. I have to do something about that.

[Michael McKean]

All right, well, I have David.

[David Spade]

Thanks, Michael. So, Dana, we just. We Just wrapped up with the great Michael McKean. And Michael. Yeah, we were just saying like that's great. He had that great McCartney at the end. We were sitting on that for a while. I love that story. How fun. I know movie. I'd freak out.

[Michael McKean]

It's fun because he's a musician as well. You know, he's in his studio and he writes all these songs and stuff. And so that to kind of hang out with McCartney. I was, I, I just, you know, I'm such a freak and there's billions of me. I'm not unusual at all about the Beatles. And so that he tagged Martha Martha my dear as the.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I was wondering what you thought of that because I know you have your favorites.

[Michael McKean]

I don't know. I, they, they go round and round, you know. I, I, to me, I was just curious the idea of genius, you know, what is genius? And to me it's sort of like something that shouldn't be able to exist but exists.

[David Spade]

I'm saying with those beat songs, you go, this is my favorite for a while. And then you go, no, now I'm really into this one then. I'm really into this one now. And you don't appreciate one. Then you go, oh, now I just heard it again.

[Michael McKean]

I kind of go back to the. Some of the earlier help Hard days night. No reply into, you know, just that when they were. I don't know something about those. They're very, they make me very happy.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

And they're. And they're just cool. But anyway, he, that guy is a great storyteller. That's great as a guest. Michael.

[David Spade]

Michael. A lot of fun. Of course we talked about Coneheads again. Of course. And we talked about it with Nick Kroll. I don't know. Conan's getting a lot of play. But he was great to talk about everything. I did feel bad that I said waiting for Guffman. I thought he was in every single one of those from best in show to everything. So that caught me and I felt stupid.

[Dana Carvey]

It.

[Michael McKean]

I think he got the gist. Well, that was kind of nice to pack. Unpack the influence of Spinal Tap on all these other shows that have people.

[David Spade]

Talk to camera and the way they shoot.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

I didn't even put that together.

[Michael McKean]

They. I don't know if it's the first time mock documentary or maybe there were some British ones, but I'm not sure. But in America that was sort of this mock documentary. The way they shot it was new. Something new.

[David Spade]

Well, I hope everybody liked it. And we'll see you next time.

[Michael McKean]

See you next time on what's the.

[David Spade]

Name of the show again? I don't know. Really? I thought you knew.

[Michael McKean]

Huh. Work in progress.

[David Spade]

Hey guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, Give us review 5 star rating and maybe even share an episode episode that you've loved with a friend.

[Michael McKean]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[David Spade]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

[Michael McKean]

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by.

[David Spade]

Phil Sweet tech booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

[Michael McKean]

Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[David Spade]

Reach out with us. Any questions to be asked and answered on the show? You can email [e-mail] that's a U-A C-Y I dot com.