RE-RELEASE - Al Franken

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade
Episode: RE-RELEASE – Al Franken
Release Date: November 29, 2025
Guest: Al Franken (Comedian, Writer, Former U.S. Senator, SNL Legend)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, SNL legends Dana Carvey and David Spade welcome their longtime friend and former colleague Al Franken. Together, they delve into behind-the-scenes stories from SNL’s heyday, discuss the craft and challenges of comedy writing, and share their personal experiences working with comedy greats and famous hosts over the years. With a mix of irreverence, nostalgia, and sharp wit, the trio gives listeners an entertaining, instructive, and heartfelt look into comedy, television, and friendship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Al Franken’s Early Life and Entrance into Comedy

• Al’s Academic Side and Family Dynamics (04:05)

  • Al’s reputation as a math whiz thanks to his mother’s proud boasting.
  • Despite his strong academic foundation, Al discusses how he gravitated toward comedy over a career in math.
  • Memorable Anecdote: As a teenager, Al met Tom Davis (his longtime comedy and SNL partner) at a new school and they quickly bonded over making chapel announcements funny.
  • Quote: “Organizations would send [Tom] up to do announcements...I went up to him, I said, you’re really funny. And then we started doing stuff together.” (12:00)

• Improv and the Value of Comedy Training (06:30)

  • Al speaks to the benefits of improvisational training, referencing his and Tom’s experience at Dudley Riggs’ Brave New Workshop.
  • Advice for Aspiring Comedians: “Anyone who’s interested in comedy, I would do that, because... improv training... really came in handy.” (06:30)

Classic SNL Moments and Sketch Creation

• Julia Child Bleeding to Death Sketch (07:00)

  • Al recounts writing the legendary sketch with Tom Davis and the importance of physical gags (like the blood effects) timing for comedic payoff.
  • Quote: “We timed those spurts and that’s... one of those things where you’re going like, oh, please, get it all on air. And it does, and you go, yay.” (09:00)

• Tapping Into Political Satire

  • Dana and Al discuss the nuanced balance required to create non-partisan, sharp political sketches with Jim Downey.
  • Quote: “[Downey] had this motto, which was, we’re going to reward people for knowing stuff, but not punish them for not knowing stuff.” (37:12)

Working with Legends and Challenging Hosts

• Stories of SNL Greats and Host Dynamics
  • The crew swaps tales about the intimidating yet brilliant John Belushi and the classic era of the show.
  • Al touches on the pressures and rewards of working with high-caliber hosts, including George Steinbrenner and Michael Jordan.
  • Notable is Al’s confession to “stealing” jeans from the Gap Girls set while a guard was distracted by Paul McCartney’s rehearsal of “Hey Jude.”
  • Quote: “I watched during dress. He’s still during air. I took two pair of 36 30s.” (25:24)
  • Paul McCartney’s Influence: “When [Paul] played Hey Jude...I’m like crying...that just meant so much...” (24:00)

Writing Ethics, Edginess, and the SNL “Hot Seat”

• Risky Comedy and Censorship

  • Al discusses pushing boundaries—writing “Limo for a Lame-O” about NBC head Fred Silverman and pitching sketches to tough hosts.
  • Also shares how satire sometimes backfired or was misunderstood by media and censors.
  • Quote: “[Media] have a vested interest in not getting jokes...” (17:20)
  • The team discusses working with NBC censors and how they navigated what was allowable, including tales of Dana “sort of mumbling” risqué words on air and the resulting management proceedings.
  • Quote: “We always play dumb. What are you talking about?” (69:55)

• The Stuart Smalley Phenomenon

  • Discussion of the iconic sketch and how even major stars like Michael Jordan had to “dial it in” for SNL’s comedic timing.
  • Quote: “The Michael Jordan one was probably such a huge home run. Greatest sketches.” (56:46)
  • Notable Bomb: Al shares how a joke at the ESPYs fell flat because audiences took him literally, not as a satirist.

Cast Dynamics, Insider Wisdom, and Comedy “Magic”

• Finding and Developing Impressions

  • Dana and Al detail how their Bush and Perot impressions developed, with Al playing a significant mentoring and collaborative role.
  • Behind the Scenes: They share how “laughter is the oxygen of comedy,” with riffing and mutual encouragement being central to the creative process.
  • Quote: “Laughter is the oxygen of comedy.” (44:05)
  • Perot Impression Genesis: “You said, ‘Oh, there’s a three dimensional fully fledged character in there.’” (48:29)

• Navigating Career Breaks and Failures

  • Both discuss the difficulty of breaking in, timing, confidence, and the unpredictable paths that lead to success (including failing TV gigs before SNL).
  • Dana’s wisdom: “No one should become a comedian unless they have to be a comedian.” (76:34)
  • Spade’s corollary: “Show business in general is an emotionally violent sport.” (76:51)

Iconic Stories and Memorable Guests

• Stories about athlete-hosts (Jordan, Gretzky, Peyton Manning), musicians, and the joys (and challenges) of making non-comedians shine in live sketches.
• The tale of George Harrison showing up at 30 Rock, getting drunk, and playing the piano, leading Franken to “kick out a Beatle” so the show could get written.
  • Quote: “I just slam my door as hard as I can...but he evidently George like jumped three feet off the piano bench...and then left.” (35:08)
• Evocative reflections on late-night SNL writers’ rooms, camaraderie, and the magic (or agony) of finding the joke at 4 a.m.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Al Franken on improv: “Anyone who’s interested in comedy, I would do [improv], because...it really came in handy.” (06:30)
• On writing risky material: “We had the ethic that if it’s funny, we do it.” (29:42)
• On audience laughter: “Laughter is the oxygen of comedy.” (44:05, Carvey quoting Al)
• Perot’s suggestion: “Here’s an idea. You go out and campaign as me and I campaigned as me. So it’d be two of me campaigning all over the place.” (49:42, Al Franken quoting Ross Perot)
• On creative process: “That’s all it is. People ask me...what’s your favorite moment from Saturday Night Live?...three in the morning, rolling on the floor, laughing with the writers, with the cast members...” (52:21)
• On show business: “Show business in general is an emotionally violent sport.” (76:51)
• Dana’s philosophy: “No one should become a comedian unless they have to be a comedian.” (76:34)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:05 | Al’s academic beginnings and his mom’s pride in his SAT scores | | 06:30 | Improv training and early performance roots | | 07:00 | “Julia Child” bleeding sketch inception, mechanics, and live performance tension | | 14:07 | The reality of John Belushi’s issues and SNL’s party reputation | | 21:40 | The value of masterclass, continued learning, and riffing on podcast ads | | 23:26 | Paul McCartney’s “Hey Jude” rehearsal and its impact on the SNL cast and writers | | 25:22 | Franken “stealing” jeans from the Gap Girl set | | 29:42 | Writing the controversial “Limo for a Lame-O” and its career impact | | 31:03 | George Steinbrenner as an SNL host and writing sketches for reluctant/non-comedic guests | | 35:08 | George Harrison at SNL and Franken’s decision to end the impromptu “George plays piano” session | | 39:15 | Carvey’s Bush impression and the mechanics of live sketch performance | | 48:29 | The birth of the Perot impression and Franken’s pivotal mentoring of Carvey | | 56:46 | Stuart Smalley’s peak with Michael Jordan as guest | | 62:19 | Experiences with athlete-hosts and why some non-comedians can be surprisingly funny | | 66:15 | Dana’s tough early gigs before joining SNL, and the value of confidence and timing | | 69:55 | Navigating censors, risqué jokes, and memorable “mumbling” incidents on air | | 76:34 | Purposes of getting into comedy—“unless you have to be a comedian”—and the emotional toll of showbiz |

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Tone, Style, and Chemistry

The episode is loose, candid, and packed with sharp, affectionate jabs. Franken’s intellect and storytelling blend perfectly with Spade and Carvey’s quick wit and comic timing. The episode feels like a warm reunion and a freewheeling oral history, making it as lively and infectious as hanging out in the SNL writers’ room at 4 a.m.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a masterclass in comedy creation, the realities behind the laughter, and the enduring bonds formed by the pursuit of a great sketch. Whether you’re an SNL aficionado, a comedy nerd, or just looking for smart, laugh-packed conversation, Spade, Carvey, and Franken deliver with insight, candor, and plenty of legendary anecdotes.

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Transcript

[Al Franken]

Give it up for Chicago. Sebastian Maniscalco's new stand up special, It Ain't Right is now streaming on Hulu. Thirty years ago, Jeff Bezos, complete nerd Bezos now ripped to shreds on his super yacht. And the boxes keep coming.

[David Spade]

Watch Sebastian Maniscalco It Ain't Right now.

[Al Franken]

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[David Spade]

Al Franken is our guest on this.

[Dana Carvey]

Al Franken, Yes.

[David Spade]

Al Franken is coming up. I mean, we, we worked him on SNL for seven years and it's, it's always fun.

[Dana Carvey]

He wrote with you a lot, though, on political stuff.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah, he was always very political before he became a senator. And it was useful to have him around. And me and him and Jim Downey would hatch out those not gonna die.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, hatch those up. Also Franken and Davis, the comedy team. And they were in, maybe Trading Places was it.

[David Spade]

They were in a lot of things. And they, they were there from the beginning. You know, they would, you know, with the 70s, they knew all about, yeah, it knew all about those Ackroyd and all those guys. So it's a really fun interview. He's an interesting guy and we've known him a long, long time. So here you go. He was, he was the head writer.

[Dana Carvey]

When I was there, along with Downey and Smile. Al. Fr.

[David Spade]

Al Franken, everybody.

[Dana Carvey]

Is that Putin?

[David Spade]

Putin. I wouldn't do it if I were you. I just think we can come and sound. Oh, I got a podcast. Okay. Fly on the Wall.

[Al Franken]

I got it.

[David Spade]

Fly on the wall.

[Dana Carvey]

Putin called Al to say, how do I get SNL not to make fun of me?

[David Spade]

We were going to call our podcast the Al Franken Show. But I said, but why? He's only going to be on once.

[Dana Carvey]

And they said, okay, but me, Al.

[David Spade]

Franken, ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to Fly at the Wall with our very special guest, SNL legend and senator Al Franken.

[Al Franken]

Thanks for inviting me.

[David Spade]

Of course.

[Dana Carvey]

There's so many things in your career that we are looking at to talk about.

[David Spade]

Your new nickname is the Touchstone.

[Al Franken]

I did Saturday Night Live, you know, I do know.

[Dana Carvey]

That is a big chunk of it.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

We want to go with a deep dive. Our. Our other name for the podcast is the Hot Seat, so welcome, Senator.

[Dana Carvey]

We really grill them.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I, I've heard you grill.

[David Spade]

We love our.

[Dana Carvey]

We're the worst. We're the worst. Two hosts. I think we've been voted. But that's okay. That's okay.

[David Spade]

We're terrible, but we know it, which is kind of helpful if we thought we were. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

That's the charm of you guys. That's what people love about you.

[David Spade]

Yeah. I didn't go to interview school.

[Dana Carvey]

Right. They say you have no qualifications. We're like, well, you don't need them. It's a podcast. You don't need anything.

[Al Franken]

You have a chemistry between you.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

That. Is that a little Ed Win.

[Al Franken]

It's a little friendship and affection for each other. Very funny. Thank you. And both together. I don't know what I'm doing.

[David Spade]

I know. I, it's not Stuart Smalley, but it's some other kind of character that's sort of sweet. And it's.

[Al Franken]

I'm on the Upper west side of New York right now. I think I'm just channeling last person I ran into.

[David Spade]

Sweetness, there's something.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, I got it, Dana. Al is very smart. Went to Harvard. He also got a 800 on the math section of the SAT. I don't think that's out of a.

[David Spade]

Does not get a 800 on his math.

[Al Franken]

You know, my, my mom said that on a. I, I, I once did a radio interview in Minneapolis, and my mom, her apartment had burned down, and so she had to come with me. I was promoting a book, and so we're doing a radio interview, and I said, okay, mom, you're not being interviewed. We're like, in the green room. Then I had to go to the bathroom, and then I come back and I go, where's my mom? And she's being interviewed, and she's going, Alan got an 800 on assessment.

[David Spade]

Within 20 seconds. She pulled that out within 20 seconds?

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Wow. But okay, so, seriously, so you're a math whiz or a brainiac? I mean, what is that about?

[Al Franken]

No, I was just good at math and up to a point, I mean, I, I was just I peaked at, you know, algebra two. I mean, I was not. I. I took calculus freshman year, and I went, what? I have no idea what this is useful for or I don't like it. And. And then I became a comedian.

[Dana Carvey]

I have to say, I was good at math out. And when I went, one of those didn't click with me. And I think people that are good at all math is very interesting because it was like algebra, geometry. And then one of them I stopped at and said, I don't get it at all. And then they go, well, then you're dumb. And I go, well, that doesn't. Anyway, Al was in the Minnesota comedy sketch scene back. Was that a big scene back? It says, that's where you started.

[Al Franken]

I don't know where you got that thing. There was this thing called Dudley Riggs Brave New Workshop, which was like Third City. It was like. In fact, Del Close taught. Tom was in. Tom was in their troupe. Tom was in. Okay, and I'll give you an example of, you know, Tom Davis and I met in high school, and we started performing together at this theater in. We went to, like, an open. There weren't mics. It was a little theater, and we were able to get on, and the owner liked us, and we were able to do shows there. And Tom. I went off to college, and Tom became a member of the troop and got the training, the improv training. And anyone who's interested in comedy, I would do that, because I'll give you one example where it really came in handy. Remember Julia Child bleeding to death? That Danny.

[David Spade]

Yep.

[Al Franken]

Okay. So Tom and I wrote that we're looking for an end. And in improv, you're taught to look for objects because you're out there on stage, nothing, and you're improvising. And one of the techniques is to find objects. And at the end, we were looking for a blow for the scene, and Tom said, the phone, you know, there's. There's the kitchen phone. And so, you know, Danny, as Julia Child, is going like, oh, the phone. In an emergency call 91 1. And Danny picks it up and starts to dial. He goes, it's a prop phone. And throws it down and dies, essentially. And that was like, you know, it was really, you know, Tom and I as a team, each kind of complimented each other in certain ways. That was one of the ways he did. So people are listening to your. To this broadcast podcast, are really interested in comedy. And young people ask me all the time, should I do improv class? And go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

And we always say, get it. Get in a kind of a biker bar and try to do five minutes. That's. That's the path, you know, stand up.

[Al Franken]

Is a lot rougher biker bar.

[David Spade]

So, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

That was one of the best sketches ever. That was one of the top, top, most memorable sketches. Just.

[Al Franken]

Well, that was one that peaked on air. You know how. You know how you knew you had something and you were just going like, oh, please, peek on air, please. And we. That was one of the. You guys will attest to this. If something worked in dress, it was in air, Right? And that worked in dress. And it was Walter math that was the host. But we didn't have the blood quite right. And we held it because we didn't have the blood quite right. It still kind of killed, but. And here's the thing, is that, that it was an insecticide sprayer underneath the counter and the special effects guy was running it. And because Tom and I had written it, we went to the special effects guy and said, can tomorrow run the insect?

[David Spade]

Right.

[Dana Carvey]

Cause it's like part of the joke. You got to get it right.

[Al Franken]

And the guy, you know, it's a union job. They could have said no, but they love Tom. And so Tom did it. So Tom and Danny time those spurts and that's, you know, and then, you know, it was one of those things where you're going like, oh, please, get it all on air. And it does, and you go, yay, Yay.

[David Spade]

Whoa. Wow. So you actually platformed it and then said, let's wait until we get the blood spurt thing. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

That was really rare, right?

[David Spade]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would work no matter what. But, you know, but that just adds.

[Dana Carvey]

To it so much to make those things work perfect. It's so much part of the joke. And then it goes boom, boom, boom, boom. And that's. He's saying something funny. The blood comes out perfectly and it just builds, builds, builds.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. And you know what that feels like when it just works on all cylinders?

[Dana Carvey]

You know what it feels like when it peaks at dress too? That's a sickening feeling.

[Al Franken]

And there was. There were years where we did not tape dress.

[David Spade]

Oh, really? So you didn't have a fail safe then?

[Al Franken]

Well, for the west coast, for the repeats sometimes. And now they do, of course. And so, you know, Al, when we.

[Dana Carvey]

Were there, let's say 91 to 96 was. I mean, I think we did tape just. I never really saw them. I never really. They didn't really do anything with them, but maybe they did Tape them. I don't remember.

[Al Franken]

No, I think, I think certainly in the repeats. I don't think they change it for the west coast unless something.

[Dana Carvey]

I think they do that now though, they say, well, they'll see it in the West Coast. The better one, like, wow.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And that's a luxury.

[Al Franken]

I know, I know.

[David Spade]

Al, can I for a second, something about you and Tom, because it's always interesting origin meetings and how you guys were partners in crime for so long. Like do you remember like it was 8th grade P.E. or did you connect with them right away or do you have any kind of McCartney, Lennon esque things? You guys obviously connected. 10th grade, sophomore.

[Al Franken]

And I changed schools. I went to the public school system till 10th grade. And then my. I don't need to go. Why? I went to this all boys private school, but it ruined my life. But anyway.

[David Spade]

Let'S just say it involves shoplifting. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And so. And then we, we would have chapel in the morning. It was like this school founded at the turn of the 20th century for a school for Protestant boys and they started letting Jews in in the 50s to get the SAT scores up. And so.

[David Spade]

Okay, let that just lay there for a second.

[Al Franken]

Well, yes, that's actually truer than you can possibly match, but sure. So I get there and Tom makes an announcement. There's. So the reason I said that the religion was that we had chapel in the morning and they had a big pipe organ and you sang, you know, Christian. These hymns and Christian songs.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah. And when I. The first week I got there, I just didn't sing them. And my math teacher asked me to stay after, after class and he said to me, Mr. Franken, you want to go to a good college, right? And I said, yeah. He said, well, you're going to need good math scores for that, right? I said, yeah, I'd sing the hymns.

[David Spade]

Geez, blackmail.

[Al Franken]

And then I sang the hymns and I love singing the hymns hymns, you know, Almighty Fortresses are God, you know.

[David Spade]

Oh yeah. Did you ever sing Onward Christian Soldiers? That did. That was kind of catchy on the word Christian song.

[Al Franken]

And I didn't mind. I didn't care.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

But anyway, so. So after the hymns and some, you know, faculty would. There'd be announcements and Tom was really funny and he would. Organizations would send him up to do announcements. So like the first week of school, I went up to him, I said, you're really funny. And then we started doing stuff together. We started doing announcements for the, you know, meeting of the chess club or something. And we did all kinds of just. We did Carnac, we did just, you know, all.

[Dana Carvey]

They let you do it, huh? They let you kind of screw around.

[Al Franken]

They loved the us doing that. I mean, it was fun and we. It was where we really started in chapel.

[David Spade]

Could you. There's been people mentioning, you know, 75 to 80 and specifically Jim Belushi and I. I just want to get your. John, sorry, Jim.

[Al Franken]

Oh, Jim. Jim mentions it.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah, but John. Sorry, sorry, Jim, I apologize. John Belushi apparently was sort of an intimidating figure or he became one. But anyway, our friend Jim Downey talked to it and I'd like to hear your take on, you know, season three and what was going on with, with John, you know.

[Al Franken]

Well, I heard Downey's interview with you and it was great. I'd recommend that to anyone. And he mentioned the time that I think he was referencing then. This is my memory of it. One of the Charlie's Angels, Kate Jackson.

[Dana Carvey]

Jacqueline Farah or Kate Jackson.

[Al Franken]

I think Kate Jackson was the host and I only referenced. That was. I remember that was it. And he was very bad off then in terms of drugs and so he was terrible in dress. So Jim and I had written a sketch and I said, we gotta just go and talk to him.

[David Spade]

So.

[Al Franken]

And Jim was intimidated at the time more. And I just knew Belushi from the, the get go and I just knew that he could be intimidating, but he wasn't going to do anything. So I.

[Dana Carvey]

We.

[David Spade]

Not, not to you, not to the state wrestling champ, but go ahead, we'll talk about that later.

[Al Franken]

Well, I was hardly that. But so anyway, we go in and I go, John, you know, let's run lines on this sketch because frankly, you were pretty bad in it and didn't line. And he just goes like, get out of here. He makes a fist and down. You know, and I'm going like, no, no, I could. I'll tell you what, John, we'll just read them to you so that they'll sound familiar when they're coming out of your mouth. And that's what we did. We read him the sketch over and over again and he was marginally better. You know, this is kind of his worst point and. But I never saw him actually do anything other than, you know, physically to intimidate anyone other than his bearing. And he wasn't, you know, he wasn't great to the women in terms of that showing respect and the women writers and stuff. So. Yeah, but God damn, he was funny.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Brilliant comedian. I You what? I'm just Sort of curious, like, what were the things he was taking and how did it affect his performance? Was he taking cocaine where he'd speed up? Was he drinking so he'd slow down? Or do you remember?

[Al Franken]

I think it was mainly cocaine at that time. You know, it's funny, when I first ran for the Senate, one of the first interviews I had, I thought SNL was going to really help me.

[David Spade]

This is great.

[Al Franken]

This is a feather in my cat everyone loves.

[David Spade]

Yeah, they did bring up a lot of your sketches, didn't they? Go ahead.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, so my first interview is one of my first interviews. The reporter says, yeah, when you were at Saturday Night Live, did you ever do cocaine? And I say, hmm, what's that? Yes, yes, but. And then I say, but I only did a little so that I could stay awake late enough to make sure that Belushi didn't do too much.

[David Spade]

Good lie.

[Dana Carvey]

Good one.

[Al Franken]

And. Which was a joke. And most people recognize as a joke. But the media, I've learned crazy. A vested interest in not getting jokes. So the guy kind of wrote it up as Al Frank and conceded that he used cocaine while at Saturday Night Live. Breaking news said that he only did a little so that he could stay awake late enough to make sure that John Belushi didn't do too much. Belushi later died of a drug overdose.

[David Spade]

Connect the dots. Yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

And so anything I ever did. Oh, my God. I think of. There is one line in great sketch Comedy Killers. I don't. Were you guys around for this?

[Dana Carvey]

I think I was.

[Al Franken]

It sounds like, okay, Comedy Killers was a Jeopardy like game. But the premise was. And Downey and I wrote this and I'm sure. And other people kicked in. You know, it was one of those things where people kicked in at the table. So it was just the categories were like cancer, the Holocaust, Kennedy's, you know, that kind of thing. And so there's one joke. And Rosie Schuster wrote this joke. So this might have been earlier than why.

[David Spade]

Or maybe she was Lorne Michael's ex wife.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, it was. Yes, yes. And the. It was Jeopardy. Like, so this would have been a bad Hanukkah gift for Anne Frank. And then what was a drum set.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that was.

[Al Franken]

And so I later told that joke like I'm telling it now. And so that gets like Al Franken told jokes about the Holocaust.

[David Spade]

Yeah, this. He's coked out of his mind and he doesn't care about the Holocaust.

[Dana Carvey]

Pretty good jokes.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

So in one of his cocaine frenzies.

[Al Franken]

Yes.

[David Spade]

The Holocaust Joker Cokehead also said, you know, I don't know about you, I.

[Dana Carvey]

Don'T know if I want this guy running the gun.

[David Spade]

He feels cocaine and the holocaust are a joke. What else does he reminds me of?

[Dana Carvey]

Those political ads.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that's what those are. The best. Go ahead, Al.

[Dana Carvey]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Al Franken]

I had a kind of a Gap Girls.

[David Spade]

All.

[Al Franken]

Right story, but it's really just about the Gap Girls set and Paul McCartney.

[Dana Carvey]

So I love, I think I remember this.

[Al Franken]

Okay, well, Paul McCartney okay as well. For your listeners, the first thing that was rehearsed on Thursdays we shot promos maybe first. But the second thing, maybe the first thing rehearsed was the music because the music set was the music set and was there, so you didn't have to bring in a new set. So when Paul McCartney came to play, everybody at 30 Rock knew he was the guest and knew when the music rehearsal was. So 8h was, was filled with, with people for the rehearsal. And Lauren goes up and asks Paul, I'm there, right there, you know, and he's going up Paul, he says, could you do hey Jude? How would, how would Lauren say that?

[David Spade]

Could you possibly find your way to hey Jude? It's, it's just like, like a really, really, really big hit.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I think Find your way to Hate Jude would be exactly right.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

So Paul goes like, well, we're not really playing at this tour, so we don't, I don't know if we really know it. And I go, hey Jude. And he goes, no, no, no, no. And because the lyrics are so like this, you know, confusing. But I think Paul was actually, I think they were doing that tour. So he goes to the band and he comes back, he says, yeah. So they play hey Jude in the studio full of people there and everybody is so blown away and moved and I'm like crying because this was, you know, I was like 16 when hey Jude came out and it was that it just meant so much and that. And I'm literally, where's my life gone? I remember being sitting in the car not, you know, if hey Jude was on. I just arrived at my place, I waited to the end of hey Jude and. And I'm just so moved. Okay, they're doing a Gap Girl.

[David Spade]

Okay, Gap Girl is going to enter the story. Okay, great.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah. So we're now, we're on Saturday and during meal break they, they have the music rehearsal. So I go, of course, because can play hey Jude. And I go on the floor and I notice while they're Playing Hey Jude that the Gap. There's a guard on the Gap girl sketch guarding the clothes because there's so the clothes on the Gap. The girls. Girls sketch was so, I guess, valuable enough to have a guard there. So. But I see that the guard is so transfixed with hey Jude that. And I need some jeans.

[David Spade]

And you need some jeans. Okay, got it.

[Al Franken]

And I need some jeans. So I watched during dress. He's still during air. I took two pair of 36 30s.

[David Spade]

36 30.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

That's what I was at the time. 36 30s. I'm short and.

[David Spade]

Well, you have gigantic legs. Remember the night. Yeah. You and Farley would sometimes, in a fun way, wrestle at least one night. I remember you guys. It was like Godzilla versus King Kong. Yeah. And I didn't really know that I was a wrestler, but your build is very powerful. And Farley was, you know, and it was like Goliath colliding. Who actually won that wrestling match in the middle of the night on. On 17 4.

[Al Franken]

Well, I think it was just a kind of a man affection thing.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

You guys were, you know how playful.

[David Spade]

When you did it.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Obviously everyone was turned on.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

All the writers also.

[Al Franken]

Especially the women.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, actually, Dana, back to that at the Gap set, they donated a corner, you know, like the set, all from the Gap, and it was all real. So they sent their own security saying, we, we have to make sure this comes back in one piece.

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

And that's what happened. So I remember because they told me, they go, they don't worry. All the Gap stuff, all the cable crews, everything's going to be still there on Saturday. No one's going to be able to pinch.

[Al Franken]

And then I did.

[Dana Carvey]

I. Yeah, I think maybe you had told me that. That's a great story.

[Al Franken]

I actually went to the prop master and said, I took two James, Just aces.

[David Spade]

Have you guys just throughout any kind of career appearance on a TV show or whatever, and then there's wardrobe left over and there's something that you really like. And then you sort of ask casually, could I kind of keep this jacket? And it's really fun when they say yes, even though it might only be a $20 jacket. Something about free stuff on a set or a TV show.

[Al Franken]

Well, I never acted in a movie. And like, you guys have Stuart Smalley. Well, I did. I did. But why would I keep Stuart Smalley's clothes?

[David Spade]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

Trading places.

[David Spade]

I got his sweater, was what I was going to say.

[Al Franken]

Porter. I was Stone Porter number one. And Tom was Stone Porter number two.

[Dana Carvey]

Did you write Trading Places?

[Al Franken]

No, no, no. We were just giving this little part and was Stone Porter number one, porter number two. And we smoke a joint and they took that away because. Because Eddie smokes a joint and remember in the bathroom though, we were playing Stone. But we were. No one had seen us in the movie smoke a joint. So we were kind of dim witted.

[David Spade]

Or did you actually do like a stoner dude voice? Did you do like a character?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, we were kind of like, yeah, like.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Al Franken]

We thought that was motivated by them having seen us smoke pot, but it was fine. It was fine.

[David Spade]

So I'll. You kind of have a reputation like you do risky stuff. And I just want to start with this one. Okay. And I don't know if this is true, but it's 1980. Lauren's going to leave and you were potentially one of the heir apparents to then take over SNL and be the executive producer. Is that possibly true? But you wrote a sketch about Fred Silverman, the then head of NBC or he was stupid. Is that, is that true? In hindsight was not biting the hand that feeds. Did that. I mean, what, what was that?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I mean look, my life is unfolded the way it's unfolded, so. Okay, but that was stupid. I, Yeah, I, I what? Didn't think that necessarily that that was going to happen anyway. And I was kind of up for leaving myself also. So I just did limo for the lame O. And it was just about how, you know, like I, I didn't get a limo. I said even Garrett gets a limo and, or something like that. And. But I don't get one and, but Fred Silverman gets a limo. And then I, we were. NBC was tanking at the time and I was a couple like one of the executives attached to the show begged me to do it and, and we had the ethic that if it's funny, we do it. Right.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Al Franken]

That was kind of it. And so did it come back hurt.

[David Spade]

You in any way then you were going to leave the show in the.

[Al Franken]

Sense that Fred Silverman has hated me.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Ever since and that he was head of the network. But. No but Al.

[Dana Carvey]

What about when you. I just watched this whole update that you did about you came back and I guess it was. Gene Demanian had come and, and gone within six months they did a whole update piece. Was Chevy the host? Is that why he was there?

[Al Franken]

Oh, he must have been. I think it was like an interim thing where who came back with Ebersol? I think then.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, you Were sort of making fun of him too.

[Al Franken]

And I was kind of making. Yeah, I was.

[Dana Carvey]

Ballsy bit.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. I was saying kill the show or something like that. But then the writer's streak happened right after that, and.

[David Spade]

But you always did edgy stuff, didn't you? This is jumping ahead for a second, but just to. You're not censoring yourself. Didn't you suggest that George Steinbrenner, the billionaire owner of the New York Yankees, who was the host, that somehow he would be in all fours with a dog collar and there.

[Al Franken]

No, no, I had him play. I wrote a sketch where he's playing Petey, who is kind of like. Wears a beanie and shorts.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And it's just. And everyone just say, like, petey, you're so stupid, Petey. And he would just. It was all clearly just a pretext to say a horror. You know, just say stuff to George Steinbrenner like that. And he wouldn't do Petey.

[David Spade]

He wouldn't.

[Dana Carvey]

Is that the one where Odenkirk and Conan were supposed to go try to keep talking him into doing a sketch or something?

[Al Franken]

No, this was. I don't think so. I did PD and I just thought it'd be very funny. He had, like, a beanie with, like, a twirling thing on the top.

[David Spade]

Yeah. And he was just.

[Al Franken]

Well, I think we made him get on all fours in the sketch.

[David Spade]

That's what I remember going.

[Al Franken]

Kicked him in the ass. That's right. I think that.

[David Spade]

I think that's. Yeah, he got him on all fours, kicked him in the ass. And were you shocked when he turned down the sketch?

[Al Franken]

Well, yeah. I mean, he was kind of weird.

[David Spade]

I don't know if he. He was the kind of guy.

[Al Franken]

He did a decent job. We wrote a sketch for him and Neon and Jan and Victoria where it was just, George is Nealon's boss, and the two couples are going out to dinner, and Nealon offers to pick up the check. And George says, no, come on, I'm your boss. No, no, no, you always picked it up. I'm gonna pick it up. And, no, I'm your boss. I'm taking the check, and I'm taking the check. And then he takes it and goes, well, that was pretty easy. And then the only one goes, okay, I'm. I'm taking it. I'm taking it. And then it just escalates.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

And Jan kind of goes, you know, it was one of those. And. And Steinbrenner was very good in it.

[David Spade]

I just remember him going around 8h asking people where they went to college. And like, you know, Penn State. Oh, good school. You know, Cambridge. Oh, nice school. And then he came to me and goes, where'd you go to college? I said, san Francisco State. His face went blank and he just turned and walked away from me.

[Dana Carvey]

Really?

[David Spade]

Well, San Francisco State, I guess it wasn't a sexy college.

[Al Franken]

God, that makes me think George Steinbrenner is a dick.

[David Spade]

Or a guy who just loves higher education, you know, I mean, I, I just, it was just a funny school that I went to.

[Al Franken]

Now State is a fine school.

[David Spade]

There are stories that you always feel like everyone's heard, but I, I don't really know the George Harrison legend, legendary visit. I'll give you a choice. Either that or talk about the, the character, the brain tumor comedian.

[Al Franken]

Okay, I'll do Harrison real quick.

[David Spade]

So this was an epic thing. I missed it. But he comes to SNL and what year? Like 90, whatever.

[Al Franken]

I.

[Dana Carvey]

Probably not 90. I would have been there.

[Al Franken]

95, 89, 88, something like that. Conan is there. And I was discussed this with Conan and basically George Harrison shows up at, on the 17th floor. He and Lauren are going out to dinner. Okay, George Harrison's here. George Harrison is here. They're going out to dinner. They come back a few hours later and he is just drunk. And so now it's like 10:30, 11. I love it. And as you know, this is Tuesday night. This is Tuesday night and that's writing night. Show gets written. And this year I was one of the producers or. And he starts to play the piano. Fun and a gift in the read through room. And everyone just is like gathered round and George Harrison's playing the piano, Beatles playing the piano. And it's going on and on and on. And I'm going like, the show is not going to get written. And so I just go to Phil Hartman, I say, phil, watch this. And you remember my desk, My office is right next to.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

So I go in my office and I just slam my door as hard as I can. I didn't see him because I'm inside. But he evidently George like jumped like three feet off the piano bench, came down and then left. And everybody was just furious at me. And I just said, we gotta write, we gotta write this show. And of course, Rue McClanahan was the host. No.

[David Spade]

And she sat down at the piano and wouldn't stop that piano.

[Al Franken]

That's that story. And the brain tumor comedian was. It's Tom is so funny in this piece. It's, you know, we Would do the Franken and Davis show, which was a show than the show. And this one is I have a brain tumor. And I have this, this bandage with a big lump, discolored lump on it. And, and, and Al's always wanted to do a single. And he's. This is, you know, he's got a brain tumor. So, you know, you're going to really enjoy this, folks. This is Tom. And then I start, you know, you know, you hear about the rabbi didn't give, you know, didn't charge for giving circumcisions. He only took tips. Woof. And then the next, next joke I tell, I start the space out. And every joke I always. The punch is always, he only took tips. And then Tom behind me would go. Would like, encourage the audience to laugh. And, and it was really funny and Tom was really funny. And of course we got a few letters. Have you ever watched your, you know, wife die of a brain tumor?

[David Spade]

Have you ever thought of a sketch out. Unless where you thought of it and said, ah, no, no, too much. Too, Too far?

[Al Franken]

I. Yes, of course, but I can't remember any.

[David Spade]

Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

But I can't remember few and far between. But let's talk about some stuff we did together.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And Downey, I think I've told you this. Downey had this credo for the political material we wrote, which was Downey was a moderate Republican, a very thoughtful conservative, in the best sense Republican, and I'm obviously a very progressive Democrat. And we felt that it wasn't the job of the show. We felt the job was to do satirical political satire that was well observed but not biased in one way or another. And Downey had this motto, which was, we're going to reward people for knowing stuff, but not punish them for not knowing stuff. So the point was, is that you could watch it and not be a political junkie at all. Not follow politics very closely and understand it. But if you were someone who did, there was another layer. And that. That's, that's pretty sophisticated stuff. But, But Downey and I were pretty. I'm very proud of the stuff I did with Jim. And we did so much with you. And Jim didn't say this when we're talking about you doing the Bush cold openings, which we use as a crutch. I mean, basically, we can always do Dana.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

In one on home base. And, And Downey is right. Sometimes we wrote them on and, and they were long. But here's the thing that I tell people a lot, which is in dress and I, we. Those were well written by and large Downey kind of said, well, sometimes we threw you out there with nothing. I don't, you know, made a lot out of whatever we gave you.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

But what would happen is we would send you out there with something actually. Well, you know, well thought through. You would get so many laughs at will because you do the, you just do your, the hand over there doing that.

[Dana Carvey]

It would spread.

[Al Franken]

Got dead will get laughs. So we had to tell you between dress and air a number of times, which I don't think anybody has ever told a performer. Don't get so many laughs because we. Because you're ruining. You're not following the through line of the audiences and they're losing the through line. And you knew exactly what we were talking about. You knew exactly how to dial it down and you did every fucking time.

[David Spade]

Fucking time.

[Al Franken]

And which was. You knew exactly what you were doing. You had such control and, and of course you help write those and added to them. And I also want to tell another story about you, which is. And I think I've discussed this with you, but in, in I guess it was when, when did Clinton run? 92. So Songas was running and Jerry Brown was running.

[David Spade]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And we had a two week break, which was rare in a two week break. And you said to me, you know, on. As we were about to go on break, said, can you work on Tsongas for me? You know, just on the idea of Tsongas and what to do with them. And so I started playing around with his voice and I nailed. I got it really great. And then I went to. I gave a speech at the Kennedy School, you know, on political satire and I killed with Sangas. So I come back and I'm really embarrassed and I say to Dana, could I do Songus? And you just went, yep, I'll do Jerry Brown.

[David Spade]

Love Jerry Brown.

[Al Franken]

And the thing about you is that you knew Jerry Brown.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Part of it is that you went to, you know, lousy San Francisco State and California.

[David Spade]

Jerry Brown was a great character. But your song was hysterical. Whatever your take was, I remember it killing.

[Al Franken]

Well, it was, you know, Snaggle puss with a Kermit with a boss, with a Massachusetts accent.

[David Spade]

Yeah, Snaggle. And he really had a voice that odd. I mean, it wasn't that big a leap. Yeah. Very extreme.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

I have a question out. When you and Dana were formulating Bush, it was, it was right before I got there, but I just watched a Bush Dukakis early on debate Which I don't even know if it's a cold opening is 14 minutes, which is pretty long.

[Al Franken]

It might have been, but it was great.

[David Spade]

It was during the campaign.

[Dana Carvey]

Hilarious. Yeah.

[David Spade]

That was.

[Al Franken]

Diane Sawyer discussed with Downey the line which was, I can't believe I'm losing this guy.

[David Spade]

Yes.

[Al Franken]

And, yes, I wrote that line. But the line only worked because of this long setup.

[David Spade]

Right. Of Bush rambling. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Well. And it was. It was. It was Diane Sawyer, Jan Hooks, playing a very sultry, so funny saying, hilarious. And basically asking him a question. And you kind of go, well, stay the course. Thousand points of light. Stay the course. And then she just went. For the first time in this. She just went. You still have another minute 45 as your vice president.

[David Spade]

And he just saw.

[Al Franken]

Well, say the course.

[David Spade]

Yeah. And then bring it down.

[Al Franken]

She does that back and forth with you like three or four times. And finally she goes governor. And then. I can't believe I'm losing this guy. So that. John was. I wrote that line, but only because of that setup. Set up that line.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[David Spade]

I think I. Oh, yeah, totally.

[Al Franken]

The line off the set.

[David Spade]

And I. John, the whole.

[Dana Carvey]

And Lovett's nailed that one, by the way. Oh, my God, he was great in that sketch.

[David Spade]

Lovett's was great as Dukakis. And I don't know if I've told you this album, but he. On election night, when Bush won, Lovitz called me and essentially conceded, well, you're going to be doing the president for four years. And he. The fake Dukakis conceded to the fake Bush before the real Dukakis conceded to the real. But then I knew I was going to be in the hot seat, and I didn't really have the impression at.

[Al Franken]

That point, you didn't quite have it. And we did sit down and you started developing that.

[David Spade]

Well, do you remember the exact moment? Because it was just you and me in a room trying to find it. And I just. That doing that thing out there with the finger up, lazy finger, like, doing that thing in that whole area. And we both looked at each other and laughed. And that. That was the end. It's very interesting how one little hook and then it went to Nat Gad, dad.

[Al Franken]

Well, I remember I. You were one of the first guests on my podcast, and you said to me. Because I laughed. And you said, laughter is the oxygen of comedy.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

Oh, definitely. If you have someone laughing and you're riffing, then it is. The machine keeps going. So you laugh.

[Al Franken]

Exactly.

[David Spade]

And I knew. I like. Okay, this is Great. And then we had Jim Downey coming in. It was like, I felt really blessed to have you and Jim Downey working on it. But you seem to be the primary driver, instigator of the subject matter and which we talked about. But it was interesting that when Bush was riding so high, he was 90% approval after his first two years in, in the Gulf War. All the sketches. Yeah, all the sketches were about how he was impenetrable. And when I did it at D.C. for the Democratic fundraiser, everything was about, I'm gonna get elected. And it was just this super happy comedian.

[Al Franken]

He was literally at 89%.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Insane. Well, try to be.

[Al Franken]

Let us out of the, you know, Saddam invaded Kuwait and he put this coalition together. Put the coalition, coalition.

[David Spade]

Everyone could do it now.

[Al Franken]

Well, it's a guy. You're just doing the guy who figured it out.

[Dana Carvey]

And.

[Al Franken]

And not unlike what Biden is doing now in a way.

[David Spade]

Come on, we got inflation. People can't get the baby formula. I love yelling. Biden. I love, I love his yell. It's so funny. Yeah, yeah. We gotta find a way to do it.

[Al Franken]

You know, one of my favorite hooks that we, we started doing this kind of a couple years ago or something. We started trying to work on Biden and. Yeah, you were doing it. But one of the hooks I like is. And that's no hyperbole. No, there's that a lot.

[David Spade]

Yeah. My father lost his job. No joke. That was the first one.

[Dana Carvey]

No joke.

[Al Franken]

No joke.

[David Spade]

Not kidding around here. Come on. Yeah, number one.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

What the guy said.

[Al Franken]

Nazis killed 6 million Jews. No joke.

[David Spade]

No joke. Not doing well.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought that was a joke. Okay.

[David Spade]

That was, that was the first hook into him now, in fact, is a lot. And guess what? You know, there's a lot. You know, it went up. I know how to create jobs. I know how to create them. I don't know how to be a job creator. He goes to the whisper and then he goes back to the yeller. But there's a lot there for sure.

[Dana Carvey]

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[Al Franken]

So that means a half day.

[Dana Carvey]

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[Al Franken]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep?

[Al Franken]

Or with the all new sleep score.

[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

And then we had Perot was dropped into our lap to just follow that sequence.

[Al Franken]

Well, remember that I, you know, I just saw Perot and I got a tape and we went in Lauren's office and showed you Perot.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And you said, oh, there's a three dimensional fully fledged character in there. He is.

[David Spade]

Yeah. It was like Sarah Palin and. And Ross Perot are sort of bookends of three dimensional comedically already funny characters that just walked on the stage. Perot was like next level funny as a kid.

[Al Franken]

He was. And then we did a coal opening.

[David Spade]

And you wrote the very first one and it was a very funny take. Do you remember?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah. Basically him saying, you don't have to pay me anything.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

But if we GP gross domestic product goes up 4%, I get a billion dollars. It was like he made that deal and then he called the next. You know, he called on Monday at 9am of course, and we got in at 2pm and receptionist got us on with him and you and I were on and he was not interested in the writer at all. He was interested in you.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. But he would, he at least he seemed to be a good sport. He was a good sport about it. I mean he, he said, you know, here's an idea.

[Al Franken]

I think most. Yeah, go.

[David Spade]

This is a great idea. You go out and campaign as me and I campaigned as me. So it'd be two of me campaigning all over the place. I mean, he just thought that was the.

[Al Franken]

Precisely what he said.

[David Spade]

Yes. You don't have to write, you know, anything with it.

[Al Franken]

I. I know. And no. And, and. Well, you played both Perot and Bush and Lucky Spade got full circle.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Got to be in. In the wide shot as.

[Dana Carvey]

As fucking wide shot productions.

[David Spade]

David had to get the hair, the nose, the ears, the suit, everything to look like pro.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm so stupid. I didn't even know what was going on. I thought, am I doing Perot? I go, I guess Dana can't do the magic of TV and bad luck. He could. And I do remember seeing Perot on something. And obviously I wasn't a political guy. And I was like, al, what you were saying is if you're just a casual viewer, you get, you know, I understood the cold opening stuff. I didn't get the second layer of jokes, but I was just. I wasn't political, so I didn't even. Really Wasn't about Republican Democrat. I was just going, is this funny or not? Whatever. And they were always great. And then when Perot was on something on the weekend, like a Meet the Press, I accidentally saw. I thought, oh, this. Look at this little clown. This is hilarious. And he was like, someone gets to go do a standups act, you know, because he's already funny. And I go. And he was a little pipsqueak. And I go, oh, maybe I could. And that's how out of it I was. By the time I called Smigel and I just said, hey, is there any way. He's like, we got it covered.

[David Spade]

I'm like, I got it down. Probably even more fun than George Bush Senior. At least this phrase, you're not listening. Can I finish one time? Just that to me. Can I.

[Al Franken]

One time.

[David Spade]

You're not listening. Can I finish one time? Or you get it again. It's like amusing. Can I finish one time? It's like James Brown or something. Can I finish one time? Hit me.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

That'S the thing, is that you, you know, your impressions are musical in. In many ways. It's all chop. It goes all back to chopping.

[Dana Carvey]

Chopping broccoli on the first show.

[David Spade]

Once. Once I had the. She chopped. She chopped. I know I have no excuse for it, except that I think I'm trying to make myself laugh. And then it just makes me laugh. Someone going, cafe one time. Are you gonna run cartoony one time. But he did say something like that.

[Al Franken]

Well, it's all making yourself laugh. That's all it is. People ask me what Is your favorite. You know, what's your favorite moment from Saturday Night Live? Fifteen seasons you did. And I say that my favorite thing on Saturday night was three in the morning, rolling on the floor, laughing with the writers, with the cast members, just. And part of. You know, Woody Allen once said that writing comedy is either easy or it's impossible. When it's easy and it's your frigging job is what you're supposed to do. So this stuff is making you laugh. And, you know, and it could be downing on a riff. It could be you coming up with, you know, you and Neal and doing Hans and Franz. It can be bye bye. It can be, you know, and you just are going like at that moment of creation that someone's doing something and you just. It's so funny. But it's the added thing of we just did our job really well.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Sometimes that rewrite table, it could be four in the afternoon or four in the morning. And if someone cracks the code on something and everyone starts laughing and then everyone riffs on it, that's the funnest time because everyone's good at the table. So everyone's throwing in something good from right and left, and you go, wow, this has really jumped this sketch. Way ahead of where it was David.

[Al Franken]

I saw David tell the other day or a couple months ago actually, at the Comedy Cellar, and I just said he was at the table for a year or something. And. And he. Do you remember the Bobbits? You know, she cut off his penis. Yeah. And that thing. And I was doing a Stuart with. I guess Myers was the guy. And Rosie o' Donnell was Lorena Bobbitt. And I, I had a line that I didn't have the punch to. I go, so how. How did it feel? Or how does it feel now? And. And Attil's line was itches. And boy, it just. When someone does something like that, you know, it just. It's such a gift to have that table. And then sometimes the table is so deadly, like at three in the morning.

[David Spade]

Well, I just remember, like, a lot of food, like guys around the table and some women, of course, on 17th floor. And I'm thinking it is kind of like nothing's going on. Like, it seems like the deadest space in the world. And there's Chinese food or pizza. Everyone's leaning back in their chair, tapping.

[Dana Carvey]

The pencil window is cracked one inch because everyone's dying in there.

[David Spade]

And you can't believe there's gonna be a show. But you told me once out, you told Me that I peaked at read through, you know, and that really helped me going forward. Sometimes you try to get it on so hard in your first year that you literally never get back to it. You. You've peaked it read through and you definitely don't want to peek at dress unless you're at war to get it on air. You want to leave a little something so that, that there's a lot of inside baseball about.

[Dana Carvey]

If you have an insider with Al, if Al's writing with you and you're a direct and you're read through, I think it's a little easier to pull back because he's going to be in the room saying he's going to bring it up so you at least have a part.

[Al Franken]

There were years I was in the room and I was interesting to hear Downey kind of talk about the most fun he had at the show was when he just was writing and not producing. And there was a little, there was a little. It was nice to be able to go in there and express your opinion and on what gets picked for read through and stuff like that. But it also, yeah, there's something nice about just being a writer too. And also I was performing every once in a while.

[David Spade]

Well, as a cast member, you want to hook up with someone who has Lauren's ear and Lauren Truss, you know, in the room after the read through. That's always a nice thing to do for people who are just beginning cast members. Little tidbit, Al.

[Dana Carvey]

We can't go without talking about Stuart Smalley. I remember the Michael Jordan one was probably such a huge home run. That one's. That one.

[Al Franken]

Oh, that was a peak on air.

[Dana Carvey]

Greatest sketches.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah, that was, that was, I mean, kill Killer. Well, and, and he was, I think he was cracking up or something too much or something in dress. And I just said, just dial it, you know, and he understood it. I mean, so here's a guy, you know, he's a very. I. Oh, you know, when. Remember when Lauren hosted or produced the ESPYs, I don't know if you remember, maybe you weren't around for that. So he sponsored, produced, produced the sps. And so I was a presenter and I did this joke and it died. And I thought it was a great joke. And this was the year they, they did the second three peat, right. The Bulls did. So I went up there and I just said, and remember, this is a lot of athletes and a lot of people in sports. But I just go like, you know, a lot of people are saying that Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. Well, all I can say is, Michael, prove it.

[David Spade]

And it just laid.

[Dana Carvey]

It's not the right crowd.

[Al Franken]

They just going, he has proven it. That was her attitude.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

The. Is this guy.

[Al Franken]

I remember that. Laying an egg so bad. And I went, oh, okay. This is not a comedy crowd.

[Dana Carvey]

Jordan. Jordan at that show, running around was such a big deal. That was so much fun.

[David Spade]

Was he kind of the biggest guest in that way? Jordan. That. When we were there, I think. I mean, I.

[Al Franken]

In a way, I mean, he's. I remember that was the first time we were field NBA players in the Olympics. And I just said to him, so how do you think you're gonna do? And it was like him and magic. I mean, you know, it was like ridiculous. And he said, oh. And he was so confident. And of course, they just killed everybody.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And without even trying, really, it was.

[Al Franken]

But I just remember the exuding confidence and the competitive.

[David Spade]

He had a moment with me. He goes, do you golf? I go, well, a little bit here and there. I go. But I'm lucky to break a hundred, you know. And he paused. He looked at me and he's towering over me. He goes, well, you're not very good, are you?

[Dana Carvey]

That's what he's gonna say.

[Al Franken]

Let's play. Yeah, that's unnecessary, Michael.

[David Spade]

Well, he's famously compared to. Yeah, you don't seem very athletic.

[Dana Carvey]

He bets a lot in golf. And he bets, like, each hole. And he bets because I golf and I. I'm not very good either. But it's. It's fun. The stories you hear from caddies and these great golf courses where he comes in and sweeps people. And he loves it. Loves it. He just always looking for some action, which is great. It's. It's a cool thing about him. People love Michael Jordan.

[David Spade]

Well, I think athletes. Athletes just kind of blow our minds. Old movie stars. When Robert Mitchum came on. Charlton Heston or Wayne Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky showed me how to hold a hockey stick. When Gretzky got on his knees and laced up my skates and showed me how to do that. So there's moments. Yeah, you're like, damn. And the musicians as well.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

I wasn't there for Peyton Manning, but I thought. Did you see that show?

[David Spade]

I wasn't. But I thought he was hysterical on the show. I saw it.

[Al Franken]

He was fabulous. There were a number of these guys who were just really, really good.

[Dana Carvey]

And some of them on.

[Al Franken]

Some of them were lockses, like, yeah, but they were Almost funny being locks. Do you remember a piece. Tom and I wrote this trying to figure out if you. Who was there, which one. You were there. It was Joe Montana, and he was Walter Payton. Well, yeah, but on this one, Joe Montana, who was kind of a locks, we just.

[Dana Carvey]

Thinking out loud. Thinking out loud.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah.

[Al Franken]

It was. It was. It starts off with Phil and Jan, and he's trying to get her to stay the night. And. And it's that cliche of he says something and then you hear what he's thinking.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And then she says something. And we played it. Tom and I wrote it. So that you thought that was the sketch, that. That we thought that was the comedy. And if you're watching it, you're going, like, this is kind of lame. This is a device that people use a lot. And then his roommate comes, and Phil's going, oh, no. And he says, this guy, you know, my roommate is the most honest guy there is. And then at one point, he goes, you know, he says, it's nice to meet you. And then his thought is, it's nice to meet her. And then the last line was, I'm going to go upstairs and masturbate. And then I'm gonna go upstairs and masturbate, was his thought.

[David Spade]

Right?

[Al Franken]

And my God, it was so funny. And it was funny because he was a locks.

[David Spade]

Well, and he was competitive with himself. I. I was told that he wouldn't come out of his dressing room. It had to. At the end of the show, he thought he didn't do well. That kind of thing. Oh, I go, you're a football player. What are you talking. But I got to play catch with him.

[Al Franken]

He did fine.

[David Spade]

It was funny.

[Al Franken]

No way not to do well as an athlete. Bill Russell did well. Did really well. I just.

[Dana Carvey]

I did a. I did a roast with Peyton, and I didn't see his snl, but I thought it'd be fun to have Peyton in there. And he crushed it. He's crushing. You know, they wrote him jokes, but he. He delivered him. He was great. He got huge laughs, huge applause. He's always. He's got a very light, funny thing about him. And that's why I think he's in all these commercials and does that Manning cast. It all works.

[Al Franken]

You know what I've discovered in comedy? Some people are funny and some people aren't.

[Dana Carvey]

Is that really, in all your days, that's how you've come up?

[Al Franken]

But, yeah.

[David Spade]

Do you guys think, like, you were there?

[Dana Carvey]

900 of us, Dana?

[David Spade]

That was, you know, one of Lauren's great things. There's only about funny people. There's only 900 of us on the planet. And it was kind of like the perfect number, Right?

[Al Franken]

Yes.

[David Spade]

Since Al, you were there in 75, I just want to ask you this question. Did. Was anyone cognizant of the idea of taking a football player or a. A dramatic actor or whatever and forcing them to become a live sketch player? The reality show aspect of Saturday Night Live that. That sustains it. Because if you see a football player or a singer trying to do this and they're kind of bad, it's still compelling, you know?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Because they're absolutely. You know.

[Al Franken]

The first one we had was Fran Tarkinson.

[David Spade]

There you go.

[Dana Carvey]

Wow.

[Al Franken]

And that was Franny's idea. That was my wife's idea because of.

[David Spade]

The namesake a little bit.

[Dana Carvey]

And how was it?

[Al Franken]

He was very good.

[Dana Carvey]

And it was Vikings quarterback for the audience.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah. This is this going back a ways. And, you know, he wasn't the greatest who had ever done it, but he was. He was very good. And I remember Belushi for that. We did a cold opening where Belushi is like a coach. We did a football. Some. A lot of football theme thing, and Belushi made me go back to his apartment and Red to me, Dick Butkus's autobiography. And I had to stay there, like, all night, you know, hours, while he read this thing. And he worshiped Dick Butkus, who is a linebacker for everyone for the Bears. Chicago Bears.

[David Spade]

I did a TV show with Dick Buckus and Bubba Smith called. It was with James Farentino, and it was this helicopter cop show. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Airwolf.

[David Spade]

No, no, I was an Airwolf. I can't. Blue Thunder.

[Dana Carvey]

The cop show thunder.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

I played the Daniel. And what did you.

[Al Franken]

What did you play on it?

[David Spade]

Well, I. I take something just. I played the. The sidekick in the back of the chopper with a helmet on. Clinton Wonder Love. Just another frustrated observer. Like, I wanted to be out.

[Dana Carvey]

Clinton Wonder Love. That was your.

[David Spade]

James Ferrantino would have a Styrofoam cup full of vodka, and he would smash the pages of the script on the thing and yell at the crew like, Scarface.

[Al Franken]

What year was this? What year was this?

[David Spade]

I just saw stuff in 84. I had no confidence that I could be on Saturday Night Live, really. So when people said, I luckily got cast in things, I just did them, and they were a complete waste of time. And I got fired. But I got into the outfit, went into the fake chopper. They're going around Blowing steam at us. And then they said, dana, come down the ladder in front of the whole crew. They fired me, and I had to do the poop walk and go just in front of everyone. I go to the wardrobe guy, really nice guy, and I go, I'm a comedian. I'm funny. This is like 84. He put his hand on my shoulder and said, shh, it's okay. It's okay, son. And then he saw me, like, eight years later in 93, he goes, you were right.

[Al Franken]

What the fuck?

[David Spade]

What were you doing in a helicopter? I had a very strange route to snl. I mean, you saw me once, right? Al, you were in 84. I probably.

[Al Franken]

And I blew it. I blew it. I saw you doing Stand up in San Francisco.

[David Spade]

I probably wasn't.

[Al Franken]

That guy is brilliant. But you know what? You weren't ready. Well, you're ready a year later.

[David Spade]

I would just say confidence until you're kind of famous is a wide range of how you'll be on a given night. And if you lose a little bit of confidence, at least for me, I don't know about Dave Chappelle.

[Al Franken]

You know what?

[David Spade]

I don't know. But, yeah, go ahead.

[Al Franken]

I don't think I was the best judge to do this. You know.

[Dana Carvey]

I.

[Al Franken]

That year, that was the year we came back from being gone, right? That Lauren came back from being gone.

[David Spade]

Yes, 85.

[Al Franken]

You know, we pick. We picked Lovett's that year. We got a few good people, but we. I think there are some people that we miss that were really. That ended up being real huge mistakes.

[Dana Carvey]

It's always easier after the fact to say, oh, why didn't you pick that person? But, you know, when you see them, sometimes it's too raw or too rough or they haven't developed, and you just. It's an easier miss.

[David Spade]

It's better to wait. You know, there are people. Sometimes they'll put them on when they're not ready. They're 21 or 22 and not ready. But for me to get on with, Phil and Jan frequently do the church chat sketch. Rosie Schuster was the one who was helping me form. I had the character, but the platform. Then all these religious scandals happen. And you and Al came on and you did Swagger. Right.

[Al Franken]

So throughout that first year, I think.

[David Spade]

I did Pat Robert, Pat Robertson, and then Phil did Swaggert, and then they did Tammy Fayette. So I have this church, like, J.D. glady character. I get fat.

[Dana Carvey]

Perfect.

[David Spade]

Yeah. And then these scandals start happening. And so. But that. That was. That was fun. You Doing Pat Robertson, like laughing or crying, I meant. But it was a very funny take on Pat Roberts.

[Al Franken]

My Bad Riders was just very happy.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that was, that was the key to him.

[Al Franken]

He was just always just very joyful. There's, there's a woman in Ohio who's just had her diverticulitis cure or something like that, you know, but he, he was just happy. He was a happy Christian.

[David Spade]

And you started laughing.

[Al Franken]

That was my take on him.

[David Spade]

Then sweat. Phil was crying. And then we closed in on a close up or something like that. And you're just like two idiots not talking, just.

[Al Franken]

Anyway, and I heard you maybe was on. It was, maybe it was with, with Jim about how they censored church waiting and you just became dirtier.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And it was fine, say penis, but I could say throbbing bulbous organ willingness. Mallet. Yeah. Naughty parts sweating and grinding. Yeah. So that it was, it was, became, yeah, it was pornographic to me. I don't know. But that was a.

[Al Franken]

Well, all they cared about was is someone gonna complain?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And they're not, they could complain about penis because it's penis.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Al Franken]

They're not gonna complain about throbbing, throbbing naughty parts.

[Dana Carvey]

Andrew Brewer, who is our kind of cool sensor guy, he wrote us after he wrote into the podcast because we've talked about him, but we always say positive things. He's always in like a tough position and he'd always go, guys, come on, you can't do this when you're not saying pussy like that. And I'm like, no, what do you mean? We always play dumb. What are you talking about?

[Al Franken]

Oh, that's right. You had that very indistinct.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, that's right. You remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

What was that?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I still have it between my legs. No, it was on Weekend Update and I, I, I sort of mumbled the word and, and Dennis was like, spudly, I wouldn't mess this one up. You're gonna be out of here. You're already teetering on a thread. I'm like, what?

[David Spade]

Thanks.

[Dana Carvey]

And then, and then, and, and, and so I, I said the in and out list. You know, I think the outlist was going out after the show. Getting out of honey. Oh, yeah. The end was I was saying you're not. Oh, it is not enunciating enough to get caught the, by the sensors. And then the out was going against.

[David Spade]

And then it's like a, I walk.

[Dana Carvey]

In the hallway and Andrew's shaking his head, walking me going, spade, come here. And I go, what? I know I have no idea what you're going to ask me. And then he goes, come on, dude. And I go, but it did pretty good at dress. So he goes, come on, you can't. We got. We got advertisers saying we pull out if he does this. And so I do it, and then Dennis is right next to me going, I don't know, Spud. And so I do it, and it gets too big of a laugh, and Dennis is like, it's curtains for you. Gu.

[Al Franken]

Did you want too big a laugh? Was trouble.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Because it means you said it to everyone. Understood it.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. Well, I don't know, but I. I got along really well with most of the sensors.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

You know, clotworthy. Because I know you mentioned him with Jim. I really like Bill Cloud.

[David Spade]

He was a nice guy. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

He was a lovely guy.

[Dana Carvey]

And he's a tough job.

[Al Franken]

He stood by a couple things. I did that. Or do you remember first you. This NBC reporter wrote a book about her having a mastectomy, and it's called first yout Cry. And then I did a sketch when we had. It was first he cries. And it was. It was Gilda, unfortunately, in retrospect, has mastectomy, and Bill Murray is her husband. And he just goes. You know, it starts feeling really sorry for himself because his wife.

[Dana Carvey]

Horrible.

[Al Franken]

The whole point was it was satirical, which is. No, a guy doesn't do that.

[David Spade]

Yeah, right. That is the joke. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, that was the joke. And so. And Bea Arthur was her, like, oncologist, and she's basically saying this happens all the time. And the fact that he's got a girlfriend now named Bambi, as not, you know, is to be expected. And. And Cloud Worthy's wife had had a mastectomy. And he just said to me, I love this sketch.

[David Spade]

Wow.

[Al Franken]

Because he got the satiric.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Point of it. And that was. That was when you just went, oh. And I was really good friends with all the sensors because I talked to them all the time.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Because they. My stuff was, you know, I had to deal with them all.

[Dana Carvey]

You call down edgy. All right, Dana, what else you got for Al? This poor guy.

[David Spade]

I don't know. I wanted.

[Al Franken]

I'm having fun, so.

[Dana Carvey]

I know. It is fun.

[David Spade]

Stuart Smaller. We got to that.

[Dana Carvey]

There's too much. I will have one last thing. You didn't write Reagan Mastermind, did you? That was a great.

[Al Franken]

That was Smiggles. That was Smiggles. I kicked in.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

But, you know, that had a line that Chippendales had, which was this is the part of the job I hate. That was Mike Myers line when they had to choose between Swayze and Swayze and Chris and, you know, so hard. You know, they're consulting, and Myers goes, this is the part of the job I hate. So that was one of my favorite lines. I don't think I wrote that in. Downey wrote Chippendales. I had one. My name was on it, but it was because I sat with him while he wrote it.

[David Spade]

That's a good trick.

[Al Franken]

I had one thing in it, which was the name Barney.

[Dana Carvey]

Barney. Yeah. Barney and Adrian.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Al Franken]

Barney and Adrian. Adrian, Barney.

[Dana Carvey]

Barney. Yeah. That was. Neil did that great.

[Al Franken]

Well, Neyland, the greatest attitude player. That was what was great. It was like you just knew Nealon could play attitude. Downey and I wrote a piece which was. And then you think about how of the time it was. It was a toothpaste ad which had had Garrett and Victoria that. Garrett to Meadows, I guess, and Victoria Jackson, and they're pitching for the country Music Awards, and Kevin is the guy who is receiving the pitch and has to say, no, we don't want to put. And it ends with this big kiss. And this is. I can't remember what year it was, but this was not something you would put on the country Music Awards. A white woman kissing a black guy on. On the lips. And it was Nealon trying to say no without saying that.

[Dana Carvey]

Right. Saying all the reasons it wouldn't work.

[Al Franken]

But just, you know, just.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that sounds very much.

[Al Franken]

I can't remember the lines, but you give him attitude. And it was just. He was a master.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Maybe is.

[Al Franken]

He is.

[David Spade]

You could think of something else due here at this beat. I. I don't tell that.

[Al Franken]

That's. You know, then I ran for the senate.

[David Spade]

A little birdie told me that he ran for the senate. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And then. Yeah, it. Well, look, you. You guys, this. This idea of doing that you. You've had.

[Dana Carvey]

You.

[Al Franken]

I love that you're having writers on.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

I kind of go by, like, people in high school or college that are just interested in this or interested in comedy. It's kind of interesting to hear it just straight from people, their process or how it happened and. And why. And the whimsy of it all, too. Just like, where does. Where does your inspiration come from, Al?

[Al Franken]

You once told me, Dana, that no one should become a comedian unless they have to be a comedian.

[David Spade]

Pretty much. I. I think show business in general is an emotionally violent sport.

[Dana Carvey]

You said that. I. I wrote that down. I thought that was interesting.

[David Spade]

Well, your feelings get hurt a lot, even if you're doing really well. And you know, my touchstone, as corny as it sounds, is like, I'm still making money doing this. And that's pretty cool. I never lost.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, well, because of the threat. One of 900 people who can.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I just got an update. There's 911. Some Bangladeshis were funny and we had someone from Madagascar who made some people fall out.

[Al Franken]

People fall. Well, guys, thanks, Al.

[David Spade]

Thank you.

[Dana Carvey]

Great.

[David Spade]

Really, really, really interesting. Interesting and fun.

[Dana Carvey]

Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, give us review, five star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

[David Spade]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[Dana Carvey]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carpenter, Harvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

[David Spade]

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet.

[Dana Carvey]

Tech booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

[David Spade]

Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Alan Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[Dana Carvey]

Reach out with us. Any questions be asked and answered on the show? You can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey. Com. That's a U D A C Y com.