RE-RELEASE - John Mulaney

Summary

Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade

Episode: RE-RELEASE – John Mulaney
Release Date: December 24, 2025
Guest: John Mulaney

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode is a deep-dive into the career, comedic process, and personal journey of John Mulaney—a former SNL writer turned global stand-up star. Dana Carvey and David Spade engage Mulaney in a lively and honest conversation about the behind-the-scenes realities of Saturday Night Live, the evolution of stand-up comedy to arena-sized venues, the anxiety and excitement of performing at that scale, and Mulaney’s personal experiences with sobriety and becoming a father.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. SNL Origins, Culture, and Inside Stories

• SNL Writers' Room: John reminisces about joining SNL in 2008, describing the competitive yet collaborative nature. He learned a lot from people like Bill Hader, and the unspoken rules about relationships with hosts and the hierarchy of the show.

  • "Everyone from SNL on their Summer Break writes 100 drafts of a Judd [Apatow] movie, and he doesn't make them ... So as soon as he and I had some weird, unsaid understanding that I was never gonna write a movie for him, we became a lot closer." — John Mulaney (07:21)
  • "It's funny to me when people go like, Judd has an eye for talent. It's like, well, they're on SNL. It's not rocket science." — John Mulaney (07:52)
  • The unglamorous reality of writing promos and the herding-cats dynamic on Thursdays leading up to a show.

• Lauren Michaels Wisdom & Mystique:

  • Lauren’s cryptic guidance and memorable expressions that straddle motivation and puzzle.
  • "Relax your face. When you get out there, take a beat. Relax your face and look directly into the camera like you're talking to someone you know." — Lauren Michaels’ advice to John on his first Update (25:14)
  • The constant pressure to expand appeal: “You know, we're on in all 50 states.” — Lauren, as imitated by John (19:13)
  • Lauren’s subtle “tough love” — "People will tell you you're the funniest one in the show. You're not. Wow, that's what I got a lot." — David Spade (20:10)

• Writers Interfacing with Hosts:

  • The daunting, often awkward process of writers pitching monologue ideas to celebrity hosts, who often regard them as little more than “two children with pieces of paper.” (39:32)
  • “I would always be like, I'll have a page call your manager's assistant ... the idea of even, like, reaching out personally [to a host].” — John Mulaney (38:47)

2. Sketches & Comedy Process

• Love for Obscure Impressions:

  • Their affection for Dana’s Mickey Rooney and Casey Kasem bits—how writers geek out over niche impressions instead of calling for the characters everyone expects.
  • "[Mickey Rooney] was at one of the rare down points. And he had the gun walk around ... he would walk around with his hand on the .38 and they're not gonna get me ..." — Dana Carvey (10:32)

• Sketch Failures & Insights:

  • Hosting perils: Stories of sketches that bombed for technical, performance, or staging reasons (“Too big of a set. They didn’t want to.” — Dana Carvey, 67:49).
  • The SNL dead zones and the sacredness of “home base” for certain sketches (70:17).

• Performing Stand-up in Big Rooms

  • Mulaney reflects on his rise from clubs to multi-night stints at Madison Square Garden:
    • “One should not get used to it. I just keep thinking ... it's pretty funny, man.” — John Mulaney (55:40)
  • Arena energy vs. club intimacy—how comics adapt their style, movement, and performance to fill vast spaces.
  • The mix of pressure, gratitude, and impostor syndrome that comes with playing arenas.

3. The Anxiety, Ritual, and Reality of Stand-up and Specials

• Taping Stand-Up Specials

  • Two shows, one night (Kid Gorgeous). First show might feel like a "C," but remind yourself: “No one else has done every show with me. So they're not comparing them.” — John Mulaney (49:45–51:06)
  • Whitney Cummings’ advice: Play to the camera for the special, not the room (50:07).

• Onstage Anxiety & Crowd Dynamics

  • The mental gymnastics of recovering from a lukewarm audience, and how directing more energy and effort can sometimes turn things around.
  • “If you don't feel like they're carrying your chair ... if you don't feel that bounce, I'll suddenly be like, how the hell do I do this? What am I doing? I'm giving a speech.” — John Mulaney (51:49)
  • “When they're not good, you guys try to be twice as good.” — Advice from director Alex Timbers (53:55)

4. Personal Journey: Sobriety and Fatherhood

• Rehab and Recovery

  • John speaks candidly about his struggles with addiction and the gratitude he feels for being able to return to the stage, bringing his audience along for the journey.
    • “Thank God cocaine and arenas didn’t overlap. Oh, dear God. That would have been a disaster.” — John Mulaney (57:21)
    • “I didn’t know if I’d be on a stage again ... I was at a point where it wasn’t just that like today was miserable, it was that I could absolutely guarantee you tomorrow was miserable.” — John Mulaney (60:09)
  • The sense of connection and renewed bond with fans after his personal struggles went public.

• Fatherhood Reflections

  • Joy, surprise, and humility in the early months with his son Malcolm.
  • “What I love about Malcolm, one, he’s my son ... but also, he's so independent ... he kind of sounds like Jiminy Glick.” — John Mulaney (71:22)
  • Parenting in the social media age: The intrusive and unsolicited advice culture (“If anyone has any parenting thoughts, please leave them in the comments.” — John Mulaney, 74:03)

5. Banter, Self-Deprecation, and Comic Meta-Commentary

• The “bus driver test”: Arena tour bus drivers who casually compare comedians to legends who just played (“Well, Robert Plant, Steve Harvey, then you ...”) — John Mulaney (83:47)
• Being heckled (unintentionally) by club owners recalling the “wildest crowd ever” witnessed—right before you step on stage (84:18)
• On aging and touring: Is flying too much aging? The ‘celebrity health tip’ banter between John, Dana, and David (93:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |--------------|----------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 07:52 | John Mulaney | "It’s funny to me when people go like, Judd has an eye for talent. It’s like, well, they’re on SNL..." | | 10:46 | John Mulaney | "[Mickey Rooney] was at one of the rare down points. ... He goes, 'Do you know my name?' ... I was gonna plug him if I do." | | 25:14 | Lauren (via John) | "Relax your face. When you get out there, take a beat. Relax your face and look directly into the camera like you’re talking to someone you know." | | 39:32 | John Mulaney | “I didn’t even sense if they thought we were writers. I think they thought we were just like two children with pieces of paper who kept asking them ... questions.” | | 51:49 | John Mulaney | "When I have. When the crowd is with me ... if you don't feel that, like, bounce, I'll suddenly be like, how the hell do I do this? What am I doing? I'm giving a speech." | | 55:40 | John Mulaney | "One should not get used to it. I just keep thinking that, like it’s pretty funny, man... It’s a big room.” | | 57:21 | John Mulaney | "Thank God cocaine and arenas didn’t overlap. Oh, dear God. ... that would have been a disaster.” | | 60:09 | John Mulaney | "It means ... I didn’t know if I’d be on a stage again. Like, I didn’t know what ... I could absolutely guarantee you tomorrow was miserable." | | 71:22 | John Mulaney | "What I love about Malcolm, one, he’s my son ... But also, he’s so independent. ... he kind of sounds like Jiminy Glick." | | 74:03 | John Mulaney | "If anyone has any parenting thoughts, please, please leave them in the comments." | | 93:14 | John Mulaney | "Planes, no one should be flying. I'm in that phase of celebrity now where I weigh in on health theories." | | 94:13 | David Spade | "Neil Brennan said you should be introduced as, 'You know him from TMZ... please welcome, Drugs!'" |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• SNL Experience & Judd Apatow – 06:06 to 08:35
• Mickey Rooney Story – 09:07 to 11:30
• SNL Promo Writing/Update Experience – 15:03 to 25:14
• Lauren Michaels’ Philosophy – 18:59 to 20:10
• Stand-Up Taping & Crowd Dynamics – 49:13 to 54:16
• Madison Square Garden, Arena Tours – 55:06 to 57:10
• Sobriety, Rehab & Comedy – 57:10 to 66:21
• Fatherhood & Parenting – 70:48 to 74:14
• Touring/Life Practicalities & Social Media – 74:35 to 86:53

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Flow and Tone

The episode flows as a rapid-fire, comedic roundtable interspersed with earnest confessions and personal history. Dana and David maintain their signature dry, self-deprecating wit, while John’s stories alternate between laugh-out-loud funny, surreal, and emotionally genuine. The trio lovingly roast SNL and the comedy world, but never lose sight of the realities behind the craft, the toll of fame, and the healing power of humor.

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For New Listeners

If you’ve never heard John Mulaney or aren’t familiar with SNL’s inner workings, this episode serves as both a masterclass in modern comedy and a testament to resilience. Listeners will come away with a deeper understanding of both the highs and lows of comedy at the highest levels, the role of camaraderie, mentorship, and self-acceptance, and, above all, the unvarnished truth behind the punchlines.

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End note:

Skip the ad reads (until after 05:59 and at various mid-rolls) for uninterrupted comedic gold and deep insight into the comedy mind!

Transcript

[David Spade]

You know, some mornings feel impossible, Dana. Like today. Freezing cold holiday to do's piling up. And you just want something from your wardrobe. You just want it to make your life easy and just perform.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. You want your.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Something to perform. You want a wardrobe to perform.

[David Spade]

Yeah. You want a wardrobe to bring something to the table. That's why I'm turning to quints. They're Mongolian cashmere sweaters, Dana.

[Dana Carvey]

Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Awesome.

[David Spade]

Insanely soft. 50 bucks for a cashmere sweater and looks way more expensive than they are. Italian wool coats. Structured, polished, perfect fit for these chilly months. Honestly, the down jacket, I got to get that from Quince because that's a go to it. Keeps you warm, looks sharp, holds up through the whole season.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, Quince really nails the essentials. They got denim and chinos that actually fit. David. Outerwear that lasts. From leather jackets to wool top coats. All made from premium materials by trusted factories. And because they cut out the middleman, you get luxury quality without the crazy price tag.

[David Spade]

You were in a high school band called Denim and Chinos if I recall.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, and BBQ was the lead singer.

[David Spade]

Actually.

[Dana Carvey]

She was good.

[David Spade]

I've been starting grabbing a few gifts for home, bath and kitchen. I don't stop at home. I go bath, kitchen. Nice. They make perfect presents that make it feel thoughtful but don't break the bank. Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with quints. Don't wait. Go to quince.com fly for free shipping on your order and and a 365 day return. That's all year now available in Canada too. What is it, Dana?

[Dana Carvey]

That's Q U I n c e.com fly free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com sly. Hey, David. When it comes to gifting, you know, I've learned there are two types of presents. Okay. The ones that get returned and the ones that instantly become a favorite. Do you agree?

[David Spade]

Yeah. That's Jenny Bird. Jewelry definitely falls in the second category. These designs, as you know, are very modern. They're timeless, always feel special.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh well, isn't that special?

[David Spade]

That makes it my secret weapon when I want to give a gift that really, you know, lands. That's why Jenny Bird makes it easy. The packaging is beautiful. It's very thoughtful. The pieces are comfy enough to wear every day.

[Dana Carvey]

Yep.

[David Spade]

And they ship fast.

[Dana Carvey]

That's right.

[David Spade]

Perfect. If you're last minute shopper like me.

[Dana Carvey]

That's right. I mean, I just want to do this when I hear that. Way to go.

[David Spade]

Way to go.

[Dana Carvey]

And because the styles are so versatile, they always make an outfit feel pulled together. David without trying too hard. David not talking about you. Some of my wife's go tos are the best selling Florence earrings which always get compliments. And the Remy Bengal. Lightweight, water resistant and just as good stacked as it is on its own. These are the gifts you'll actually want to keep.

[David Spade]

And you can get 20% off your first order with Jenny Bird by visiting jenny-bird.com and using code F O W at checkout. You know, this last year, Dana, after my big dinner slipped into the old food company.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh my goodness.

[David Spade]

I basically fused in with the couch. I'm talking stuffing, pie, all the fix bread house I tore into, I don't remember eating. It started with the roof. I said just the roof.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, one of those. Yeah, I did a lot of pumpkin pie. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Anyway, now what do you do? Now Chava is my holiday reset. I keep a couple servings in my carry on and stash some at home. My friends and family show up. The snacking gets a little too nutty.

[Dana Carvey]

I blend mine with nut milk and frozen fruit or iced coffee.

[David Spade]

A little extra, you know, if I want to.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, right.

[David Spade]

Coming back, steady energy, easier digestion, muscles that actually recover, metabolism support and a little help for my mind and immune system. Plus it's delicious. 25 grams of plant based protein. No artificial flavors, no soy, no gluten, none of the junk. Just real all in one nutrition.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Food coma recovery made easy. Go to cachava.com and use code FLY for 15 off your next order. That's good job. Kachava. K a c h a v a.com kofly for 15% off.

[David Spade]

John Mulaney, one of the top standups out there. Plays in big rooms. Writer on snl. Really moved up the ranks. Went on to host about five times. Very smart, well liked, has a crazy past, great story, and we go through pretty much all of it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yep, we go through it because when I was hosting SNL, I guess it was 2010 or something, he was just. Him and Bill Hader were like writing partners and they did all their stuff together. So I didn't even know him as a performer, you know. And then all of a sudden a couple years later, he's got this great stand up special and he's gone on from there and we talk about, you know, he started to leap to big rooms, you know, so it's, it's, it's kind of a cool story. He's a Very nice guy, very humble guy, and. And extremely bright, as you would think, to talk to about comedy and all things show business.

[David Spade]

And I got to hang out with him at the 50th.

[Dana Carvey]

All right, well, here he is. John Mulaney.

[John Mulaney]

By the way. I love the show. I've listened to every episode. Even Judds.

[Dana Carvey]

Even Judd's interesting. He was not even on snl, but it was fine.

[John Mulaney]

But he's discovered so many movie stars from it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. He is somebody who just gets stuff done. Like, if you call him with an idea, he does have that engine. Let's just make it. Let's do it. You know, I don't know if you. You don't need to get anything from him. Right.

[John Mulaney]

So we reached a point in our friendship where I didn't. It was kind of clear I wasn't going to try to write a movie for him, you know? You know, there's like, everyone. My generation was in a stable where he just kind of, I think without even holding deals or money. He just had so many people like myself, Key and Peele, the Lucas Brothers, all Bill Hader, Simon Rich. All these people had a movie deal with Judd, and I would kind of watch it and be like, wow. Everyone from SNL on their Summer Break writes 100 drafts of a Judd movie, and he doesn't make them. He makes one movie every two, three years. So if he's making train wreck, that means it's like all these people I know whose thing is passed over. So as soon as he and I had some weird, unsaid understanding that I was never gonna write a movie for him, we became a lot closer. Cause then we could just talk about Stand up. We're talking about Judd Apatow, David.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I.

[Dana Carvey]

He does seem to. Whenever there's a shiny object that. That emerges on the scene, it seems like Judd is. Is there. He's recognizing it early.

[John Mulaney]

It's always. It's funny to me when he, like, people go like, judd has an eye for talent. It's like, well, they're on snl, you know, it's not.

[Dana Carvey]

It's not rocket science.

[John Mulaney]

It is a bit not. It is kind of not rocket science.

[Dana Carvey]

I had a spectacular accidental set at the Improv once, and Leifer, I think, contacted Judd and saying, it's different now. So then we started emailing me and stuff. I go, I'm almost dead. I mean, there's nothing. There's nothing left here. But anyway. But I. He's affable, you know, I, I, we. We did the podcast in person with him. It was kind of nice, actually.

[John Mulaney]

That is nice. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Now, I saw. I saw John. Just so the people know, I don't know John very well at all, but I obviously think you're funny. And so here's my microphone.

[John Mulaney]

Said, so businesslike.

[Dana Carvey]

I would say that your standup is really starting to come into its own. You've got that thing figured out in the last week. Yeah, over the weekend.

[John Mulaney]

I was eating it. I was bombing so hard. Till last week, finally.

[Dana Carvey]

Can I. Can I just say the first time I met John, because it really made me laugh. So I go, I'm hosting the show. I go in a little room. It's Bill Hader and John. And I didn't know them. They didn't know me. Like, what do you want to do? You know? And I didn't know. I thought people might say Wayne's World thing or something like that or. And you guys both said, our favorite thing you've ever done is Mickey Rooney.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. And like, that was your. Mickey Rooney was. You know, we were talking about how we were going to ask you to do it before you came in the room. It was sort of like, okay, the week is here, he's here.

[Dana Carvey]

I immediately.

[John Mulaney]

And by the way, Dana, you then told us we knew the impression from theater stories this guest you did on the show. I had never heard the unused anecdotes of Mickey Rooney until that day. And I think it's the hardest I've ever laughed. Was the. Was the one Corona story, which you now have to tell?

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah. Mickey Rooney. He was a down point in his career, and he had a.38 revolver with him at all times. We were, you know, and he would wave it around. He had.

[John Mulaney]

He was at one of the rare down points.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And he had the gun walk around. And New York had a crime spree going then in like 1981, he would. Said he would walk around with his hand on the.38 and they're not gonna get me, you know, but he. He said he told a story where he. His idea.

[John Mulaney]

At this time, Dana. At this time, Dana, you were doing a multicam with him.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. 30 Rockefeller with Meg Ryan, Nathan Lane, Scatman, Carruthers, where Letterman and then Conan did their thing. So. But he did at one point said he wanted to go meet Juan Corona, the serial killer or whatever murderer. And he says, I was gonna walk in there and say, do you know my name? And he'd say, I'm Mickey Rooney. And then I was gonna plug him if I do. Mickey Rooney stories. Every time I start to talk about him with people, there's new tributaries and things that I forgot to mention. But maybe that Mickey stories do that as a sub podcast. Like a 20 minute.

[John Mulaney]

I think about. I think about the Mickey story a lot. Because that's funny. I like that he thought he could walk into a maximum security prison. Like what he had worked out in his mind was what he was going to say.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[John Mulaney]

Not any of the logistics of walking in. I believe Juan Corona was probably. There's a commuted death row sentence, but he would have not been just in an open prison sitch where Mickey Rooney could walk in, land a great in quotes line and then shoot him.

[Dana Carvey]

I never went that far of the logistics of his mindset. Like, how would he get in there?

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. But he worked out. He goes, listen, I don't know how to get a gun into a jail. I don't know what'll happen the moment after I fire it. But I've got. I know what I'm gonna say, which is to you who I am, John.

[David Spade]

I've been a lot of gunfights out in the street and you, you think you'll have a lot of time to do one liners, but it just moves too quickly.

[John Mulaney]

That's true. A lot of people only plan the logistics and then they don't. When they land on their mark, they don't have a great.

[Dana Carvey]

That's right.

[David Spade]

Or you miss it and you go. The one chance I had and I kind of fluffered my line, what I.

[John Mulaney]

Would have liked is if Mickey Rooney entered the prison, looked at Juan Corona and said, do you know who I am? And if Juan Corona said you're Mickey Rooney, then Mickey Rooney wouldn't be able to go. And then I. That could have saved Juan's life because.

[David Spade]

They would have had he had to explain what he was in. Oh, yeah. He goes, oh, you are Mickey. No, no. Or if you said you're Don Knotts.

[Dana Carvey]

And then he goes, wait, Don Knotts?

[John Mulaney]

I was the number one. Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

You know, John is wearing a hoodie, Dana. And I feel like most people see. Don't see you out and about. So is it sort of hoodie suit? Suit, hoodie? What is it?

[John Mulaney]

Is there any in between since having a baby? It is.

[Dana Carvey]

Congratulations.

[John Mulaney]

The same pair. Thank you. The same pair of elastic drawstring khakis and a free T shirt. That is what I wear.

[David Spade]

Merch or something?

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. Like a Jimmy Kimmel T shirt. I have a. I have one from the Robin Hood foundation from a charity Thing I did. I have one for every venue. I ask for a free T shirt. I have A Houston Astros 1. A team and a city I have no affiliation with. I wear that very often.

[Dana Carvey]

But, John, doesn't that invite conversation? Like, I just wear black T shirts. If I wear anything with something on, it invites conversation. And I'm an introvert at, like, an airport or something.

[David Spade]

Also known as an asshole.

[John Mulaney]

I remember. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Especially in a black T shirt. You can't convert it and wear a black T shirt. It's very standoffish.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, yes.

[David Spade]

They say, hey, how about those Astros? And John's in the airport going, oh, fuck.

[Dana Carvey]

Then John, later that night.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, I go, yeah, they've got a full team this year.

[David Spade]

It looks like they got a roster.

[John Mulaney]

But maybe John's the kind of roster this year.

[Dana Carvey]

You're the type of comedian that if someone said, how about those Astros at the airport? It seems to me that you might have 10 minutes on it within a day or two. The way you write things out from a Hell.

[David Spade]

I know.

[John Mulaney]

I'm a bit of a. I'm a bit of a story seeker.

[Dana Carvey]

So David is, too.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, I think I'd be delighted.

[David Spade]

Me, too. You know what I saw on your. When I was looking up stuff about you, I have a couple questions. One, when you started. I mean, this is SNL stuff. We can go back.

[Dana Carvey]

It's like I do with comedy notes. It's just.

[David Spade]

Yeah, you're. You're fucked. You're gonna get it from all sides.

[Dana Carvey]

We just go wherever we've. We're already halfway through.

[David Spade]

I start. I. When I started Lauren, I saw a couple things you did talking about snl, and we're just going to really regurgitate them for a slightly bigger audience. We don't know.

[John Mulaney]

And I hope we'll have a chance to go through what the week is like.

[David Spade]

Yeah, we're gonna talk about.

[Dana Carvey]

No one's ever brought like that.

[John Mulaney]

It's never been covered in any media.

[Dana Carvey]

And what your relationship is with Lorne Michaels, we're gonna break. Break the seal on that dude.

[John Mulaney]

The coat of a muerta that surrounds that office.

[Dana Carvey]

I like that. The coat of them.

[David Spade]

When you started. Here's my question, because I was assigned promos. Did you do promos?

[John Mulaney]

So all writers wrote a promo. You're talking about the Thursday standing on the stage promo?

[Dana Carvey]

Yep.

[John Mulaney]

All writers had to submit promos. I wasn't uniquely bad at it, but that's kind. That's not a skill I have.

[David Spade]

That's A very special skill.

[John Mulaney]

I always wanted promos to be really minimal and weird, and I would try to engineer that to happen. And of course, I was wrong. I just. I don't have a knack for that. I was very jealous to hear that you were on the floor every week when you were a writer doing promo.

[David Spade]

Did you hear that? Oh, that is true. Yeah, yeah.

[John Mulaney]

Where you said that on this podcast.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah. What happened was I was an okay writer, and I was new, and it was sort of jury duty. Like, Downey would be like, who can we lose for the couple hours during the rewrites? And none of the writers wanted to do it because your. Your nose is in the rewrites. And so we go send Spade down. And Lauren, Lauren, I got along, but, you know, there's not much getting along there. It's just promos. But you do get to see the host and the music, which. That's fun. But the pressure.

[John Mulaney]

That Thursday. That Thursday afternoon mess of, like, you know, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers doing soundcheck and then trying to corral a host and a cast member for promos. It was a lot of fun.

[David Spade]

Oh, that is true. They like to have a cast member in, and you could write them in. It was kind of a little power trip. But you have to say for people listening, there's like, I don't know, 10 seconds, and then you have to put, hi, I'm blank. With musical guests, blank. And then there's like four seconds left for a joke. And they've already done 10 million promos. You're trying to think of anything weird or different. And I would personally have to write about 20. Give them to Marcy Klein. She would hand them in to Lauren or whoever or the host, and they would kill a lot of them. You know, like, the host would kill.

[John Mulaney]

A couple of them. Now, having hosted, they kill them with prejudice. They even go like, we hate this one. We hate this one. We know you won't like it. It's mean. It's mean about you. This writer's an asshole. You know, read it. And I go, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

This writer is trying to fuck you over. I remember I just saw a clip of someone on Instagram, and it was a live shot of promos, and it was. Eddie Vedder was music. Emilio Westeves is the host. And it's me and Lauren just milling around in the back, and I'm pointing, pointing, and showing Eddie Vetter or something. And then Lorne nods his head like, do that one. Do the one. Then we step Back and they go, three, two. So they had like a three minute chunk of promos, which is. I didn't know they're filming. It's so weird that that would get.

[John Mulaney]

Out somewhere and wouldn't.

[Dana Carvey]

Lauren, if you finally got it, wouldn't he put his hands in his pocket and then turn and walk away? I don't know. It seemed like I liked it. Hands in the pocket and he would pivot. But I like.

[David Spade]

John, you like it? Yeah, I like.

[John Mulaney]

Or say something cryptic like, well, less is less.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Some people think it's funny.

[David Spade]

Mm.

[Dana Carvey]

See you on. I mean, see you at the party.

[David Spade]

Are we trying to repel viewers?

[John Mulaney]

You know, we're on in all 50 states. I feel like was a note. I got a lot on monologue jokes. As if I was. I was so. As if I was writing, like, for the crowd at CBGB's in New York. I was sort of like. He goes, I know. Below 14th street that works.

[David Spade]

He said, oh, I love that. He literally just thinks of America as just New York.

[Dana Carvey]

Especially right before there's gonna be a vacation or a break. It'd be this, our last show before the break. And it would be, like, nice if it was, like, really, really funny.

[John Mulaney]

You're gonna see a lot of people over the break. And wouldn't you like it if they said, hey, that last show was really good.

[Dana Carvey]

No, we're not nervous enough.

[John Mulaney]

And also I was like, are you seeing a bunch of people during break? Cause I'm laying on my couch watching DVDs with, like, a sty in my eye. Only Lauren was doing heavy socializing during the break.

[Dana Carvey]

His endurance to work that. Yeah, no one, like, a lot of.

[David Spade]

People will tell you you're the funniest one in the show. You're not. Wow, that's what I got a lot.

[John Mulaney]

You really.

[David Spade]

And I go, oh. And he goes, it just happens. It's okay. And I go, well, it stings a little to hear that. I did. I didn't knock on his door and say, lauren, I'm hearing a lot of people say, I'm the funniest person.

[John Mulaney]

Now. Kind of being. Now being out of it for many years and. And having a wonderful. I mean, I always loved Lauren, but having a really nice relationship with him. It would be fun to go back and do those things.

[David Spade]

I know.

[John Mulaney]

I know you think I went, I don't mean to interrupt you. You're with Chris Dodd. But do you think I'm the funniest writer Senator?

[David Spade]

Because a lot of people in my family, in my High school say I should be on. More thoughts on that.

[John Mulaney]

I have family in Milwaukee that think I should be on.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, they're fucking you, man.

[David Spade]

Well, you weren't as stressed, were you? Because you were just writing and then they would pop you on Update, which is like more of a gift and it wasn't expected. It's probably better.

[John Mulaney]

I had the absolute best situation that you could ask for. Honestly. Like, I look back on it and I was. I had. There were a few gifts. It looked like you were getting up and leaving, David.

[David Spade]

No, no, I haven't even heard that.

[John Mulaney]

No, I like the idea that, like, as a listener, that sometimes when someone's about to go into a long story, David always just does a quick errand.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I go, I just gotta go wash my car.

[John Mulaney]

So writing there means producing there, like, as you know. So you got to produce live television. You work with every department and you really own your piece. You do everything for it and you're given a nice amount of credit behind the scenes for it. I'd already been doing standup and continued doing it. And do you know what made the biggest difference, though? I got to pop up on Update. And honestly, Bill Hader, when he would do press about the. You know, about something and they'd talk to him about sketches on the show, it means a lot to me. The more over the years I think about it, like, he would always name me and give me credit for, which was not done a lot before that. And just.

[David Spade]

I try not to do it.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, no, I try not to do it now that I'm more of an on camera guy. But no, I.

[Dana Carvey]

That seems very.

[John Mulaney]

Meant a lot because it was sort of like, oh, I felt like I had a bit of a reputation in comedy as, oh, he's a writer there and we sometimes hear about what he's written. And at the same time, I got to pop up on Update a couple times, which, like, yeah, that's just 10 million people. I've been on VH1's Best Week Ever 100,000 times at that point. So I was like, I've been on.

[Dana Carvey]

Tv, but what was your nerve level?

[David Spade]

That's one of my questions. The best week ever.

[Dana Carvey]

Being a writer and then doing Update, where was your. Because you're not acclimated to performing, you're writing, and all of a sudden you're in that chair and they throw you out.

[John Mulaney]

That Saturday was like, oh, not only am I terrified as. Not only am I under a lot of stress as a writer, but I, like, I have to Go out there tonight. Yeah, those were out of body.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you remember what you did? What your first one was like, here comes John Mulaney saying a word.

[John Mulaney]

Were you playing? Yeah, I had a. It was Girl Scout cookie season and I did an editorial about how like the Girl Scout business model is completely flawed because they have a tremendously popular product that they sell once a year in front of like a Gelson's, you know, from a lunch table. I can't remember specific jokes about it, but that was that. So it was like. I remember thinking before I did it, I was like, this isn't really. This is sort of like a. I've got a complaint about the Girl Scout cookies, You know, like, yeah, like, hey, Girl Scouts. But I was sort of like, I'm so inexperienced at this. I'd rather play an attitude. So I'm like, you know, I'd rather pretend to be the guy actually mad about this.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[David Spade]

Mad is not a bad angle on update.

[John Mulaney]

No. When you need something and you have nothing, it's good to act like you are exasperated.

[Dana Carvey]

And did you pound the table and get animated or did you kind of push it?

[John Mulaney]

I remember at one point I go, have you ever put Thin Mints in the freezer? They're delicious. Like, sell them year round. It was just. It was a real, like, when in doubt, act extremely exasperated. Which I followed my whole career. But I remember before I went out on the update desk, Lauren looked at me and he said, he goes, relax your face. He goes, when you get out there, take a beat. Relax your face.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, funny.

[John Mulaney]

And look directly into the camera like you're talking to someone you know. But I remember Relax youx Face was a good note because I was going to come out like this, extremely high strung.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

Yeah, because there are some cinnamon things out there that do well. So I guess I, that's, I, I think I get. And people like flaming, you know, snacks. Each comes in a beautifully engraved glass bottle on a wooden cap making it perfect for gifting or for your at home bar. Investors, influencers and millions of fans are joining the RK0 proof revolution. And the warm molecule is changing the game.

[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

Okay, listen. So for Thanksgiving.

[Dana Carvey]

Thanksgiving, yeah.

[David Spade]

I'm going to add into the mix some Omaha steaks because it's like I want to, you know, have them around because they have steaks, they have hamburgers.

[Dana Carvey]

They have, yeah, they're fun. They're fun to have around.

[David Spade]

Yeah. And then you take that and then I'm going to tell people that's a good gift idea for Christmas. You know, send them out, take the pain out of going and shopping. Suddenly you got all this at your fingertips.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, they come and get, they come gift wrapped, USDA certified tender. I like that. Steaks, juicy burgers, cozy and convenient comfort meals. And a lot more than that, David.

[David Spade]

Oh yeah, there's way more than that, Dana. During their sizzle all the way sale they tied that into Christmas. See, that says all the way. Yeah. You can get 50 off site wide at Omaha steaks.com plus our precious listeners get an extra 35 off with promo code fly.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm gonna say that's a good thing. You've had Omaha Steaks, haven't you?

[David Spade]

Yeah. You're gonna see me in the kitchen. Maybe I'll take them out on the bbq depending on whether, weather permitting.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And watch me. Hey, you know, I'm over there. Like how do you like them? You know, y. I once dated a.

[Dana Carvey]

Woman named BBQ but Good night.

[David Spade]

Oh yeah, I've actually met her with you.

[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

Omaha Steaks has been America's original butcher.

[David Spade]

Since 1917, if I had to guess.

[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

That's omahasteaks.com code fly. You know, David, last year I gifted Masterclass to my sister for her birthday and she couldn't stop talking about it. Now see, see how that works? She integrated it into her mornings as a little personal growth ritual. Inspired me to do the same.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

Now it's part of my routine too. Just a few minutes a day and I feel sharper, calmer, more creative.

[David Spade]

We needed to get you like honed down into that zone.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm so glad you, you just heard that. Like you've. You heard me. You felt, you felt my.

[David Spade]

I hear what you're saying.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, exactly. You listen.

[David Spade]

That's my crime. I'm a listener. You hear, but you don't listen. You look, but you don't see. One of the favorite classes that I've heard about is Amy Poehler. You know what I mean? Amy Poehler does a improv class. And yeah, those are, those are things you can actually use in your everyday life. People have. When you're writing emails and you have presentations when you're in conversations, it sort of makes you think a little differently. But there's so many with Masterclass. I mean, there's how many 200 world classes with genius people teaching you. And the plan started just $10 a month billed annually. So you can watch or listen anywhere on your phone, laptop, where else?

[Dana Carvey]

Or even online if you're traveling. And David, every membership comes with bonus guides and a 30 day money back guarantee. Thousands of bite sized lessons fit right into your schedule. Make it easy to learn from the best on your own time.

[David Spade]

That's right. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com fly for the current offer. That's up to 50 [e-mail] fly. John, let me add Dana, I just have seven in a row. I have seven in a row for John. Questions John, when you go out there and it's Saturday and you're doing update, I think when you're a writer, the one extra love layer you don't think of is how you look. And it sounds egotistical, but all day you're like, oh, wait, I got to get hair, makeup. What am I wearing? And. And then sometimes they'll go, I wouldn't wear that. And you go, for an update, what do I wear?

[Dana Carvey]

And they go, they won't tell you what to wear.

[David Spade]

Yeah, not that.

[John Mulaney]

Not that. Yeah. No, I remember I brought my little shirt and sport coat from home, and it was like a blue shirt and a navy blue jacket. It was the, you know, safest, safest possible choice tested.

[David Spade]

Safest. Yeah.

[John Mulaney]

I remember showing it to Tom Broeker in costumes and being like, I go, I was thinking of this. And he goes. He went, yeah. As if, like to say, like, look, we couldn't. We have an entire show to design. We couldn't possibly care what you wear on your cut it Dress update.

[Dana Carvey]

That's honest. That's. That's.

[David Spade]

You think we're getting on. Oh, oh, you think you're going all the way to the show. Oh, then what?

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, it was that. And I think I said to him, like, this shirt doesn't. Don't worry. It doesn't like Moray on camera. You know, the.

[David Spade]

Yeah, like dance on camera.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, it doesn't dance on. Don't worry, Tom. My shirt will be fine on air.

[David Spade]

He goes, you'll cross my mind at 11 when I realize you're on the show.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. And then we'll ask you to maybe do something about the adult acne.

[David Spade]

So I go, hey, Tom, I brought a shirt. It doesn't wrinkle. I got one of those kinds. It doesn't wrinkle. He's like, I don't give a fuck, dude. And I'm like, okay.

[John Mulaney]

As if, as if. As if, like, Emmy and Tony Award winning costume designers would be impressed by a Wrinkle Free shirt.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I know. That's the funniest part.

[John Mulaney]

You get that, man?

[David Spade]

They're like, well, we're all worried about what you're doing on the show. We don't care.

[Dana Carvey]

Did anyone ever call any old timer ever call you kid? Because any of you use that in your specials? Hey, kid, it ain't gonna work out for you, kid. I'll be honest with you, kid.

[John Mulaney]

I will say what was nice was that even people like Phil Himes.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Lighting director, they learn.

[John Mulaney]

They like the. Everyone in the booth and they learn your name, which means, you know. So I didn't get kid, but I once had a sketch on that was like. It was an impression parade. It was just every cast member doing an impression. And I changed it a great deal in between dress and air. So on air, I watched in the booth and it didn't go great. It was a little clunky. And I'm walking out of the booth and Phil, I walked past Phil. I'm pretty. You know, it's at a low point in the season. Like it's like February doldrums or something. I'm walking past Phil and he goes, not your best work. And I was like, getting this. I was getting this, like, I've been here four years kind of edge. So I was like, what, Phil? You know, like what?

[Dana Carvey]

You got up in his grill?

[John Mulaney]

And he went. And he went, you know why? That wasn't good. And I go, I go, why? And he goes, none of the people sounded like the people.

[Dana Carvey]

And that's not your fault. But Phil.

[John Mulaney]

I know, but I like that, that review of an impression piece, none of the people sounded like.

[David Spade]

That's a really. What you don't want to hear.

[Dana Carvey]

Just so listeners know, Phil Himes, he seemed old the entire time I was there. And he had this cranky exterior. But then he was an incredible heart of gold underneath and incredibly sweet. But he was kind of intimidating in the early days. What do you want? What do you want? You want a light there? We can't get it there, you know, but then he was. Then he would put the light there. I got it for you, Ken.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. Yeah. And we were once doing, I think Fred as Obama. I didn't write it. Colin Jost wrote it. It was like a Christmas time Oval Office piece. And we wanted Fred to look out the windows behind the desk in the Oval Office and see like snow falling. Like a kind of a cheesy Christmas moment. So we were. I remember I was for some reason on the floor with Colin and Seth. We were telling Phil how, oh, boy.

[Dana Carvey]

What do you want it to look like?

[John Mulaney]

We thought it should look, oh, boy. And he looked at us and he went, I lit John Kennedy in the White House and walked away.

[David Spade]

Oh, wow.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. That's. So, David, I heard a story that you inform Phil had like a close relationship. Is that right?

[David Spade]

Phil Himes? Yeah, I did think. I mean, other than having sex, we were just sort of like, buddy, buddy. No, we. He would just always bust my balls when I walk around there. So I thought it was funny.

[John Mulaney]

Well, I heard when you were hosting, he came out and said, oh, God, he's back.

[David Spade]

Yeah, of course.

[Dana Carvey]

That's very funny.

[John Mulaney]

And I heard you said, phil, I heard you died. Well, he is old.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, he was 60 for 50 years. I mean, he was.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, he was a hard 90 when I met him. It was like that. I think one of the first things I learned at SNL was that Don Pardo and Phil Himes, two extremely integral people here, are solidly north of 9.

[Dana Carvey]

Mid to late 90s, and spry.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, like, one of the most. A couple of the most important people here are north of 90 and like, yeah, you got to give them a wide berth at the pudding table.

[David Spade]

I heard you say something about asking about how people date the host now, and I thought it was so funny because I think you were saying that it sound. For us, it sounds a little dicey. Like, back in our day, the hosts were so off limits as far as just mentally, you know, you don't do anything. And I remember we had. And you have beautiful hosts. We have talented. I think Marisa Tomei was there after my cousin Vinnie. And there's so many that were great. But I would be so scared if you even flirted with the host and it got back to you. You know, like, they complain like HR and then Lauren David, were you asking out Susan Day? You're making her uncomfortable. Like, if it came back that you were making a host uncomfortable, wouldn't that be. It's obviously worked every time so far, but it seems like if you asked that a host and they didn't like it, then it would be. You'd be in so much trouble.

[John Mulaney]

I can't. I literally. I didn't even know we could.

[Dana Carvey]

Like, hang out.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, I would have never been like, you know, I would always be like, I'll have. I'll have the. I'll have a page. Call your manager's assistant. You know, the idea of even, like, reaching out personally. And I wrote a lot of.

[David Spade]

Outside the show.

[John Mulaney]

I wrote a lot of monologue. No, during the week. I mean, like, I wrote a lot of monologues. And occasionally there'd be this, like, hey, Thursday night, 2am or Friday night, 2am the host wants. The host suddenly has a thought about the monologue. And that was fine. That's what the schedule was. But like. Yeah, to even be in contact with the host, let alone ask them out.

[David Spade]

And without having a script in your hand to walk up to them. For what reason? You know what I mean?

[John Mulaney]

I know.

[David Spade]

Hey, what's up?

[John Mulaney]

I always felt like when Simon, Rich and I, in most weeks, we wrote a monologue for the host, I didn't even sense if they thought we were writers. I think they thought we were just like two children with pieces of paper who kept asking them not personal questions, but Wikipedia level questions. We would just be like, so maybe something about. I think your family has a lot of dogs. And they'd be like, why are you telling me about that? Be like, we're just trying to think of any angle for you.

[David Spade]

Yeah, it is hard because no one introduced you, like, as the writers. You just walk up and they go, go ask. You know, and you have to go up to some huge star and say.

[John Mulaney]

Hey, I. I always liked Tuesday night when they bring the host around to each office because they could be the biggest star in the world, but they had to sit on my couch. Like, they had to sit on my, like, with me and Bobby Moynihan smoking inside with the window cracked, as if that's at all acceptable. And, like, you just had to sit there. Mick Jagger, sit there.

[David Spade]

And now you're gonna hear a crummy idea.

[John Mulaney]

Now you're gonna hear an idea that kind of makes fun of you that you won't like.

[David Spade]

Now you're gonna hear a fake idea, and then if you like it, it's a real idea. I. I make fake questions. I go, mick, can you do a Russian accent? And he goes, probably. And I go, nah, this one's out. I crumpled up.

[John Mulaney]

That's very.

[David Spade]

Well, I'll save this for next week.

[John Mulaney]

I remember pitching an idea in my office to Josh Brolin, and he went, I mean, well, it's not funny. And I thought. I was like, okay, that's the litmus test. Like, I'm not gonna. Oh. He was sort of like, I mean. And I didn't mean to make it sound like he was really harsh. It was more like, well, you can write it. It's not funny. And I was like, well, then you've just saved me a couple hours.

[David Spade]

You could spend the rest of the night writing it. I'll pull it from read through.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, and I'll have it pulled and I'll make. And I'll let them know I told you I didn't like it. So you'll be in trouble with Marcy, dude.

[David Spade]

When a host is reading a sketch, and if it's your sketch and they quietly give up in the middle, it's so sickening just to watch them take.

[Dana Carvey]

A diet and, like, they don't really get it.

[John Mulaney]

I've seen hosts suddenly put, like, the celery in their mouths. Like, truly be like, I'm gonna eat during the rest of this.

[Dana Carvey]

Just a signal. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Or they're whispering. If they can get an order of food sent in during your sketch, like, hey, is there any way they get up?

[Dana Carvey]

You always try to discern a little bit. I know we talked about this before. Like, Lauren reading the stage directions, does he stay involved? Does he kind of think he's hooking something great, or is he sort of middle of the road, or is he done with it? There's a whole energy thing. It's hard to tell sometimes.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. Because Lauren reads the stage directions and he starts out pretty high energy, like CNN bumper. And then.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that's it. 3.

[John Mulaney]

I like when he kind of summarizes. Summarizes it. Towards the end, he'll start to summarize it. Like, Kristen has a hat and walks in and Keenan's there. Like, he'll read a whole paragraph and boil it down. Kristen enters as McIntyre.

[Dana Carvey]

Five hours.

[David Spade]

It really takes the energy out of it. And you're like, oh, he gave up.

[John Mulaney]

David, when people write long stage directions to describe some farcical, like, slamming doors, comedy was like, you know who's gonna read that, don't you? Yeah, like, you know how that'll get presented at Read through, don't you, homie?

[David Spade]

Yeah. Or they write like a Schneider used to write. Or he would call you out, like, if you go. And then the doorman, played by Phil Himes, and everyone laughs, and Rob goes, trek. Not a real laugh. Don't count it.

[John Mulaney]

He would yell that out during replay.

[David Spade]

Yeah, he would say, trek. Trek. Because he didn't wait. Schneider.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, Schneider. It's a trick. It's a total trick.

[David Spade]

Yeah, because you're not gonna get. You're not gonna get that laugh on the real show. That's not funny. Read through, laugh. Read through, laugh. Flag man.

[John Mulaney]

How was that graded? That seems. That's a little harsh.

[David Spade]

Now, Schneider was funny because he would do things to almost intentionally rub you wrong just to go, that's fine.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he was just.

[David Spade]

He. He'd say about three years. And you're coming along anyway. By the way, copy machine guy, I watched your. I think it was your last monologue on there. Any differences hosting along the way other than you're just getting better at it or you maybe you're not getting better at it.

[John Mulaney]

It's.

[Dana Carvey]

I mean, five times in, like, with a Covid year in between. So, like, in three years. Five or something. Very confusing.

[David Spade]

That's a lot. Yeah. Two in 2020.

[Dana Carvey]

So what's that all about?

[John Mulaney]

I'd like to do two in a pandemic.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that was the request.

[John Mulaney]

That was a really. Well, wait. What's the question?

[David Spade]

I don't know.

[John Mulaney]

It's been so cool. It's been so fun. I definitely have had thoughts like, I'm like, oh, maybe the second time I hosted was, I believe, when Lauren says, you're getting better each time. Cause that makes sense. There's moments where I go, oh. But on the second time I hosted, I had this laugh here and whatever. But I've had more and more fun each time. The first time I hosted, I was deeply in my head about, yeah, normal. This wasn't gonna be good. And this wasn't only not gonna be good, but everyone was going to go. See, we told you to stay behind the camera. We've been clear with you where you belong in this show. The audacity of you to show up and try to do this. Like, I really thought, like, I had a very weird kind of. I was like, I remember the Friday night before, I was, like, miserable. I was like, I'm so bad at snl. And that's the thing. I thought I knew to pass. And then I had a really fun show and I realized that I was just trying to make myself miserable. Because if I'm miserable the night before, then it will be a good show.

[David Spade]

Oh, that's a good trick.

[John Mulaney]

This trick I used to do, but I try not to do it anymore. Cause it's too excruciating throughout the day. And like, mental health wise to stretch myself. Sorry. To tie myself into knots so that I quote, unquote, you know, deserve a good show. Cause I'm so miserable. By the second time I hosted, I made an active choice. I was like, I'm gonna be happy all week. I'm gonna have fun all week. And if it's a bad show, then I'll know that it was wrong to have fun. But at least I will have had fun. And it was a very good show. So since then, I've been like, you have to enjoy these weeks. Otherwise, what's the point?

[David Spade]

It is funny to take such a beating of over yourself when you host. Dana's probably feels the same way. You're just so stressed. And then at the end you're like, why do I even do this? Like, right before the show, you're like, I feel so sick and tied up and twisted. Then you go, I did it. You're like, so I Did it now. Now the fun starts. And with the rap party is the only time I'm starting to have fun. It's over. And you realize, could I just get to the point or have fun?

[Dana Carvey]

The whole time I had a little bit of. I couldn't really live up to what the lucky, crazy, fortunate. Three or four years I had on the show with Wayne's World and all the stuff. So, you know, it was always, you'll do church lady and then it was you'll do George Bush Senior and it's like 18 years later. So there I. The, the thing in my head was like, how do I compete with that across the board? And that was a very. That was kind of difficult for my I. And especially I think what's nice, the way it's happening for you, John, is that it's kind of condensed. It's not like you hosted it in 2013 and then you're coming back eight years later. I think it's kind of nice that you've done five already in a short period of time just to acclimate to that.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, yeah. No one's expecting a lot of growth.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, but you have those crazy, those stand up specials and then your monologue is always great, pretty much. Right, right. Because that's your superpower. And so that sets a great.

[John Mulaney]

But also like I remember saying to Gerard Carmichael, who had an amazing episode as a host this year, who's a brilliant comedian and a brilliant many things. I remember I was like. It was when I was talking to him, I realized I was like, oh, you know what? It's eight minutes of stand up in front of 10 million people. And you're the only thing I realized. It's like you're the only thing on NBC for 10 minutes. Like your standup is the only thing happening on cnc.

[Dana Carvey]

Terrifying. That's a very relaxing.

[John Mulaney]

I find that kind of emboldening.

[Dana Carvey]

It's like, wow, you gotta go out with an attitude. I mean, how do you do your specials? I mean, how many times do you shoot a special like say, Kid Gorgeous? Just two. Two shows.

[David Spade]

That's two in one night.

[John Mulaney]

Two shows. I think it was one night.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And so how do you deal with that pressure if the first show in your mind is like a C? Just in your mind.

[John Mulaney]

The first show, Kid Gorgeous was a C in my mind. I was so disappointed. I couldn't believe it. I'd been on tour for so long and now this special was bad. It was going to be so bad that everyone would be mad at me or Disappointed in me and say you used to be good and you're bad and we don't like you and all of that stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

Have you had therapy? We'll talk about that.

[John Mulaney]

No, it's, it's, it's funny.

[Dana Carvey]

I've had a ton of it, so go ahead.

[David Spade]

Well, John, also, the cameras are there. It. I've done a few, but the cameras are there. It just throws it off somehow. It's just not a normal club or theater night when there's cameras. Everyone, the audience is stressed, everyone's different. It's just not the way it normally is.

[John Mulaney]

The thing is, like, I remembered that it's. I thought one. The second show felt better. So that. So when I. When I say I came to some epiphany, I didn't. Just the second show felt better. But were I to pretend I had an epiphany that night, I'd say no one else has done every show with me. So they're not comparing them. And this is the film of the material. Like a special is for the cameras. And I think it was Whitney Cummings gave me that advice after she had done her sitcom Whitney. And then she did her first special after that. And I remember she said to me, we play so big. Cause we're trying to play it at the back of the room. But I think it'd been something she learned doing a three camera sitcom. Like it's for the camera. And I thought about that each time since that it's for the camera. The size of the performance is for the camera.

[Dana Carvey]

And also you. I mean, we're the area where you could maybe have a good night or a bad night because the material is immaculate and it's really, really. It's like a magic trick. It's so fun to watch your stand up.

[John Mulaney]

Oh, thank you.

[Dana Carvey]

Because it's flowing so organically.

[David Spade]

He's talking to me.

[John Mulaney]

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I said that to David before the show. But then you're also doing a lot of sneakily physical comedy and you're throwing your voice and you're moving so you're performing it as well. So I would assume on some nights with a hot crowd, you may take a rhythm slightly further. Or the bit you did about Jagger. Not funny. You'd throw one more in. Is that where there's a little bit of improv when you're on and the crowd is with you, you go to that other level.

[John Mulaney]

Oh my God. When I have. When the crowd is with me. Sometimes when the crowd's not with me, I'm like, do I even have skills? Like, can I even. Can I even perform to a slightly indifferent audience? Like, I should be able to do this. Like, I should be able to still do the 90 minutes. But if they're not, like, if you don't feel like they're, you know, carrying your chair and the. At the Jewish wedding, like, you know, if you don't feel that, like, bounce, I'll suddenly be like, how the hell do I do this? What do I give it? Like, what am I doing? I'm giving a speech.

[David Spade]

Well, you think, like, you're horrible. You're like, am I doing stand up? Because nothing's working. It's almost like, did this turn into a corporate gig? Why am I bothering you?

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, did this turn into a corporate gig? And then I always want to ask the audience. I want to be like, hey, are you embarrassed for me? Is that happening? Is that happening now, too?

[Dana Carvey]

Comfort in the room. And then the elephant in the room that no one is saying and you can't hear it is. Is, like, this realization on their side. Not as good as I thought he would be. I guess it's. This is kind of a rough night. And then sometimes it takes a lot of guts and a lot of determination to go it. And you try to win them and you normally can't, but you just really.

[David Spade]

The last sickening. Yeah, I do it.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I think that's a. That is the right move. I remember when Nick Kroll and I were doing oh, hello on Broadway, our director Alex Timbers said to us, because doing eight shows a week for 16, 18 weeks, whatever, it was brutal. Well, we'd have crowds that were just Broadway ticket holders who heard, oh, there's a comedy, and didn't know it was me and Nick screaming in turtlenecks and being insane. And Alex Timbers said to us, hey, I noticed that some nights when the crowds aren't great, you guys decide to pull way back and just amuse each other, and you do the show poorly. And we were like, yeah. Cause fuck them, right?

[Dana Carvey]

It was only $300.

[David Spade]

I remember.

[John Mulaney]

He goes, here's an idea. When they're not good, you guys try to be twice as good. And we were like, oh. As if it was like another way to show them we don't care. But it was a good trick he put in our heads, because now when it's bad, I think, well, I'm gonna pretend this is on film.

[David Spade]

Sure.

[John Mulaney]

And people will study it in terms of how good you can be. Even when a crowd is Bad.

[David Spade]

I think people, you know when you're not doing well and people later say, no, it was good. There's some people that smile and the vibe of the crowd isn't to be too noisy, so they don't want to be too loud. So they just kind of liking it and smiling and they don't know it's a bad show. And later they.

[John Mulaney]

Not at all. They don't.

[David Spade]

I thought it was great. And you're like. And you're telling them how bad it was and they're like, no, it wasn't that bad.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. And you go like that part. That part normally gets. That part normally goes to applause. And normally.

[Dana Carvey]

Normally, yeah, like that was my favorite part.

[John Mulaney]

And I'm like, a lot of times there's someone in the front row that looks like my dad. So I go, oh, there he is now. And everyone that normally goes. Goes to applause. But that didn't happen tonight.

[David Spade]

And they're like, oh, so it was bad.

[Dana Carvey]

What is it about when we were. When I was coming up, like Steve Martin was. God, he was huge. And he would play stadiums or arenas and now there's so many comedians. And I'll bring it back around to you. That just are playing 20,000 seaters. And I don't know when this started for you, but now you're playing Madison Square Garden for four nights, if I read it right. Or three nights.

[John Mulaney]

Three nights. Three nights.

[Dana Carvey]

So what does that do to your brain? How do you think about yourself? Like, because that is so much love of your fans. I mean it's just like insane. How do you wrap your mind around that?

[John Mulaney]

One should not get used to it. I just keep thinking that, like it's pretty. It's pretty funny, man. It's pretty.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, like it's a big room. It's a big room.

[David Spade]

Well, it's, it's. I mean, I just want to give you a compliment. It's so hard to get to those big venues. And I was looking, you're on a tour right now and if you look at the venues, I'm like, holy, this guy is hitting the biggest spots. And Hollywood bowl is huge. Who would ever get to play that as a stand up? You don't even think of that when you're a stand.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he's playing Northern California. There's a stadium in the Sierra Nevadas and it's an open air thing. And John is playing Yellowstone. He's playing. But what, what do you do with like when you go out, it feels.

[John Mulaney]

Like it's a kind of. I Wouldn't say, okay. I wouldn't say it's imposter syndrome, which might sound really arrogant. I don't mean like, I'm up there and I'm like, yeah, I belong here. But I do recognize that the crowds have grown and grown and now we're in a. Now we're in a basketball court.

[Dana Carvey]

And that's home base.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's sort of a, like, okay, this is where it's at now. And I'm so lucky. There's a few things happening at once. It's only been this year that I've played arenas. It's the first tour I've had since a couple trips to rehab institutions.

[Dana Carvey]

So what do you mean, rehab? I haven't heard this story.

[John Mulaney]

Well, listen, no one knows about this.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, that, that I want to ask you only about that, how it pertains to your stand up.

[John Mulaney]

Just because it pertains to, like, I think if. Oh, man. Thank God cocaine and arenas didn't overlap. Oh, dear God. I'm just realizing now that would have been a disaster. There is something extremely fun. There's an energy about playing in arena that's very like, holy shit. If ever a person took this for granted, they might become rather intolerable. That's what I think. And so I'm really lucky to do it. I know it won't. It will just. It can't sustain. It won't be this forever. So at the moment I'm just kind of like, enjoy it. Because this is literally, you know, like, this won't last and that's okay. So I wouldn't say it's imposter syndrome so much as I'm acutely aware that this is just a moment in time. Own a small biz and need a reliable way to reach new customers. Try TikTok for business. We've generated over 100,000 leads, which has converted into over 40,000 sales for our pet insurance policies. I am the CEO of Spot Pet Insurance. TikTok's smart AI powered automation. Takes the guesswork out of targeting, bidding and optimizing creative. If I can advertise on TikTok, you can too. Drive more leads and scale your business. Today with TikTok for business, head over to get started.TikTok.com tiktokads hey, Ryan Reynolds.

[David Spade]

Here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about.

[John Mulaney]

Having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to.

[Dana Carvey]

To the big man up north.

[David Spade]

And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month.

[John Mulaney]

Now you don't even need to wrap it.

[David Spade]

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[John Mulaney]

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[Dana Carvey]

Well, did you think John, right. Did you think I'm doing David now? So, you know, you have those specials that explode on Netflix and then you do the five hosting and then there's the pandemic and then you have this rehab issue. Did you ever think that that would.

[John Mulaney]

I had. Didn't have an issue with rehab. It was more drugs.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, okay. So that led to the rehab.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, Rehabs were quite healthy.

[Dana Carvey]

It feels to me like there was your fan base just saw you more human and they're. Do you feel a bigger connection in a way, maybe it's like an Oprah question or something, but with your fans after that?

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, I.

[Dana Carvey]

Because they're your friend, you know, I mean, they relate and everybody's got.

[John Mulaney]

I can't, like there's no. I'll just be kind of sappy for a second. I.

[Dana Carvey]

We love that here.

[John Mulaney]

It means like I didn't know if I'd be on a stage again. Like, I didn't know what. I was at a point where it wasn't just that like today was miserable, it was that I could absolutely guarantee you tomorrow was miserable. So to be doing shows and to, you know, look, I'm aware that someone's Persona and you know, I'm aware that it might have thrown. I'm aware that it was a new information to people. I'd been upfront that I'd used drugs in the past, but I understand it was new information to people. I think I'm humble enough to know that like, you know, fans can, you know, I'm very grateful people come to the shows. It's not that I think that that revelation about me would make people not come. I don't mean that. I just mean that I also, like, I want to be a realist about entertainment and to maybe have one kind of image and then have it be made clear I was dealing with a lot more stuff and then have people still come that sort of. I feel very lucky to physically be there on stage and I feel it is so nice. I feel so lucky that if you don't.

[Dana Carvey]

John, if you don't mind talking about it. Like, when do you. When you said you maybe didn't think you'd ever do it again, was that your. What. What kind of bottom was that? I mean, were you seriously thinking I may never become. Do stand up anymore?

[John Mulaney]

It was like.

[Dana Carvey]

You don't have to answer this question.

[John Mulaney]

It was kind of. It was almost like being in. It was like. Kind of like. That's a good question. Exactly. How to articulate. It was a bit like a horror movie where I was like, how did I. Like, I don't trust. This sounds a little dark, but it is. It's not a super happy topic, so that's fine. I was sort of like, I don't trust being alone with me. I mean, I'm the person that did all this damage to myself. You're with. When you're a drug addict, you're with the person that has tried to destroy you all the time. So I just didn't have a sense of. I was like, wow. I don't know if the person in charge of this life has any clue what they're doing. It wasn't so much, oh, I can't do standup without drugs because I didn't use and do standup. That wasn't really what was happening. It was more like, I might have absolutely no idea how to manage my life.

[Dana Carvey]

Because it was. The second episode was maybe harder in a way. The relapse.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, because I'd had a lot of problems when I was in my early 20s and I'd stopped by age 23 and had a long bout of sobriety. But, yeah, through prescription drugs and other things. Started to slip and then slipped hard.

[Dana Carvey]

And. Do you think that it's a genetic predisposition, like the way your brain is situated and the way the drugs hit your brain? Can you specify why it appealed to at that level or. Because it seems like addicts sometimes have. They can be hypersensitive or redundant thinkers or whatever kind of mental health would predispose them to want to.

[John Mulaney]

So, yeah, it's a good question because, like, I. I do love life. Like, I have a lot of fun. I always. I always have laughed very hard multiple times a week with, like, really funny friends. And, like, I'm lucky to be in this life as a comedian where it's pretty fun. I have my own. I have my own demons. But it's pretty. It's pretty fucking fun. I wouldn't trade it for anything. So I was also, like. I had a very. I have wonderful parents. I had a lot of green Lights. It's hard to say that I had some inclination to. Mess up my life. A couple things in my case, I think I've had a lot of anxiety in life. So some of the chemicals that help that I certainly are very addictive. And then I think. I mean, I do think addiction is a disease. And I think I have this, you know, oh, let's do more. Oh, let's do more. I mean, there's something in my brain that does that. It wasn't always, you know, It wasn't a story of someone who was always going to self destruct. The life just.

[Dana Carvey]

Life just became hard and now you're out the other side and you're have a son, you know, so it's such a. Yeah, yeah. So then that.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, yeah. So.

[Dana Carvey]

So then that's like, okay. That's real grown up stuff. Right.

[David Spade]

When I heard you had.

[John Mulaney]

It's the greatest.

[Dana Carvey]

It is.

[David Spade]

When you're in rehab, I was like, I don't think so. That guy wears a suit on stage.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. People in. I mean, it's been proven people in Thais don't have.

[David Spade]

I mean it through me and did we have dinner at Coy one night? Was it me, you, Dana and Hayter and Judd?

[John Mulaney]

Yep. And Judd?

[Dana Carvey]

Yep.

[David Spade]

Yeah. That's like one of the few times we've gotten even. That was a fun night. We took a picture.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, we did take a picture. You guys came and did my Largo show.

[David Spade]

Yeah. It was great.

[John Mulaney]

Dana, you and Bill read.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Sketches. Oh, that's right.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. A sketch that I wrote when Dana hosted the same hosting stint when we bombarded you with Mickey Rooney requests.

[Dana Carvey]

But I. I was regrettable at the time. The only thing about Mickey Rooney was the first time I had some prosthetics that created the illusion. And it helped me too, doing Mickey Rooney. And then that time, whatever. Quick change. For whatever reason, it kind of looked like me and it just didn't, you know. And then Casey Kasem bombed.

[John Mulaney]

Did you have little Legos?

[Dana Carvey]

I did the first time.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

For some reason, something. The look wasn't the same. And then Casey K. It wasn't my best hosting effort, but.

[John Mulaney]

I think I'm in large part. I'm in large part to blame for that. If.

[David Spade]

He was bad that week.

[John Mulaney]

Now that I remember that. You remember that the Mickey Rooney and Casey Kayson that we begged you to do. We're not at the moment Roy, but.

[Dana Carvey]

I love the passion, how much you guys loved it. And Casey kasem killed a 300 seat theater bill and I read it again in front of you. We explained it a little better. It's just. It's sketch 101. They just didn't hook it. It was over in the corner. And once the audience.

[John Mulaney]

Too big of a set, too. Too big of a set.

[Dana Carvey]

Giant set. They didn't want to.

[John Mulaney]

I always want sketches like that to just look like a Garfield cartoo, like a single square animation cell.

[Dana Carvey]

Like you just massive. Yeah.

[John Mulaney]

And it was a massive backyard. The sketch was Casey Kasem and his son JC Kasem. JC Are having a fight and they both talk like Casey Kasem. And you know, it was like, son, I know you've. Son, I know you've been borrowing money to buy crystal methods. And how do you know that? Dad, here's a letter. Like it was. It was that. It was just them both.

[David Spade]

There's a letter.

[Dana Carvey]

Son, I know you've been borrowing money to buy crystal meth. And here is a letter. It's that classic Casey K. Simper. People have ever heard of rhythm.

[David Spade]

And then, you know, checking in at.

[Dana Carvey]

Number five, the boss. Bruce.

[John Mulaney]

My favorite line was, well, dad, you were always hounding me with questions. When are you going to stop hanging out with those deadbeats?

[Dana Carvey]

When are you going to do something like.

[John Mulaney]

And which female vocalist had more number one hits than any other Debbie. And then Dana says the answer. Mariah Carey.

[Dana Carvey]

So why do you think for young.

[David Spade]

People, why would that bomb.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought it was because too big of a set.

[John Mulaney]

We've already explained. It wasn't the right. It wasn't the performance.

[David Spade]

I was washing my car, John.

[Dana Carvey]

It was a quiet. They're kind of quiet voices. They don't really project that much. And I think if you're in the audience and a camera's going by or they're re leading a horse across the studio. They don't hit hook it the first.

[David Spade]

Leading a horse across. Just noise distractions.

[Dana Carvey]

If it was cold opening in the center with a simple.

[David Spade]

You weren't at home base where you. One of those secret sets. Danny used to go never be in the dead zone over there.

[Dana Carvey]

I would go where they. They were writing up the planning where the sketches would be. You'd go tell why is my sketch not there? Yeah, go ahead.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, I remember watching. I think it was a Wayne's World. I was talking to Steve Higgins and I was like, why is this. I mean, besides the fact that it was so popular, I was like, what is the. Why does this feel like they're just yelling directly at an adoring audience. And he was like. Because those were at home base. Like, everything. Everything that seems like, why is this, like, right in the lens, right down the barrel, right to the audience? So then all of us would go up to Don Roy King during the production meeting Wednesday night. All the writers would go, like, we think this could play at home base.

[Dana Carvey]

I think it could play at home base.

[John Mulaney]

I remember one time he had. Because they write in. They basically they pencil in everything that will go in one section. And there were, like, six sketches that were trying to play at home base.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, they would say to me, well, you can't have it at home base because you have an entrance. And I go, what if I get rid of the entrance? And they go, well, then you could have it at home base.

[David Spade]

Oh, wow, what a scam.

[Dana Carvey]

Then I would go to Victoria Jackson and go, you got to just be in the that the whole time. I was gonna. I don't know how much longer we have, but I was gonna just ask you your latest thoughts about your son and how old is he? Because I. I don't follow.

[John Mulaney]

Okay. My son Malcolm is six months old. Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

So you're. You and your significant Olivia are racing for that first smile in the morning when he's in his crib, and he's.

[John Mulaney]

Racing for that first. What'd you say?

[Dana Carvey]

First mile. The first smile. He's smiling now, right?

[John Mulaney]

Oh, the first smile. I thought you said the first mile.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm a little bit drunk.

[David Spade]

No.

[Dana Carvey]

But anyway.

[John Mulaney]

No, we're. That's very funny. You mentioned that. We both love to wake him up together, and he'll be kind of like, what I love about Malcolm 1. He's my son. So that's what I love about.

[Dana Carvey]

That's good. It's good you love him.

[John Mulaney]

That's not as good as your son. No. But also, he's so independent. Like, I listened to him on the miku on the baby monitor, and he's just babbling to himself. Like, as he's trying to fall asleep. He's just talking like, he kind of sounds like Jiminy Glick. Like, he's like.

[Dana Carvey]

Or Adam Sandler or more like Adam Sandler.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. There's a lot of low register. Like.

[David Spade]

He'S doing characters.

[John Mulaney]

He's doing character work. And also, I think he enjoys the reverberation of his voice in this. When he was sleeping in this pack and play the other night, and I was like, you really just love your. You love the sound that it's making in your little crib there. So we love to come in and he's just. I don't know, he's so independent. He's just chatting with his like, stuffed elephant in the crib with him.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, that moment where they wake up.

[John Mulaney]

And they're we then.

[Dana Carvey]

So right now when we're traveling. Yeah.

[John Mulaney]

We have a pack in place. So we unzip top of it, this cover and he. He's sitting on the angles like flash.

[Dana Carvey]

And then his face goes.

[David Spade]

And that.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Back pack and play is like a duffel bag you carry him in or something.

[John Mulaney]

Well, it does kind of fold up into what looks like those bags they carry machine guns in. Yeah, it's like, it's a long black bag that becomes a crib because at.

[David Spade]

The beginning it's just a shoebox you have to carry them in. And then as they get older, I don't know how it works.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. When a baby's born, they tell you to put it in a shoebox with shredded newspapers.

[Dana Carvey]

And you got to keep them stimulated. There's a lot of focus on kids. Even started when I was.

[David Spade]

Oh, more now. My God.

[Dana Carvey]

Mentally stimulated. You'll make a genius. You feed them this way.

[David Spade]

God damn. A lot of everyone's got an opinion.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, he. He likes songs by. He likes songs that the Wrecking Crew worked on. The famous studio musicians. Yeah, yeah, he kind of likes like, there's something about that. Yeah. The Righteous Brothers and those Phil Spector Wall of Sound. I think there's something sonically to a baby, you know, like I've always said, babies love Phil Spector.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, the baby when he's three, if he picks up a rock, people will go, he's gonna be an archaeologist. I mean, everyone's gonna want to project. I think he's funny like you. You know, I've seen it.

[David Spade]

Anyway, there's nothing like Instagram. When they say. And Instagram, they're always. There's always someone in trouble for doing something wrong with their kids. And then everyone writes in a million comments, you should not do that. It's like, no, why do you give a fuck about my kid? Like, oh, yeah, are you gonna come babysit?

[John Mulaney]

I've always wanted to put as a caption, if anyone has any parenting thoughts, please, please leave them in the comments.

[David Spade]

Yeah, please.

[John Mulaney]

I'm about to give my 6 month old a bunch of pork sausage and dairy. If anyone has any thoughts.

[David Spade]

What's a good toaster I should put in the tub with him. Yeah. But John, I would say we have to let you go. But first of all, great chatting. I Saw you at Largo. I saw Olivia the other night. It was a lot of fun to see you.

[John Mulaney]

You were hilarious. It was great to see you.

[Dana Carvey]

You were.

[John Mulaney]

David, we were talking for a while that just you backstage talking about trying to sell your house was the funniest five minutes.

[David Spade]

Thank you. I've heard in so long. You know, it's funny. My special just came out. I was. You guys are talking about specials and.

[John Mulaney]

It came out on the Dirt dot com, right on the real estate website.

[David Spade]

That's where my special came out, which was so stupid.

[Dana Carvey]

It was released on Dirt.

[David Spade]

But, yeah, everyone knows what your house is.

[John Mulaney]

Your house.

[David Spade]

Everyone knows.

[Dana Carvey]

David, let's do some housekeeping.

[David Spade]

Oh. It's called nothing personal. I wanted to say to John that. And Dana, you might feel this when you get to bigger. I don't tour as much, actually. This first time I was sort of doing some theaters, and they're not as big as yours, but Even if it's 2,3000 seats, I sometimes feel like I'm not enough. It's almost like more pressure to go. I can picture a band here, like, wailing away to fill this big energy. So much more energy than a club. And people are paying more and it's a big deal. There's a line outside and you go, I'm just here talking a little bit. It feels like it's not enough for them. And I had a weird thing about that where I go, I want to be extra good or do a little.

[Dana Carvey]

Something more razzle dazzle.

[David Spade]

I don't know.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, I mean, that's why I really like. I mean, I remember hearing. I remember hearing an interview with Chris Rock when Bring the Pain came out about how. Why he paces so much. It's like, I gotta fill the stage. And I've never forgotten that. I mean, I like. I like a lot of mic chord and a lot of walking.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Mulaney]

And I never saw. I always think that I'm like, this is just me. This is like a random person talking about very specific topics. What is this?

[David Spade]

And maybe I'll be quietly listening.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, yeah, maybe I'll just.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I mind. I got off stage talking about having a tough set, like my first taping. You know, most comics for listeners, pick a place and they do two shows in one night. Mostly. Yeah, Adam. Adam got to do a little more. But, you know, you do that, then you pick the best out of the two, Whatever. And I got off stage, my opener wasn't doing as well as he usually does. And I'm like, oh, please. Don't be a fucking tough crowd, you know? And then I get on it. And they were tough for the first five. And I'm like, these people are coming to see me, and they're my fans, and this is tough. And I get off and I go, shit. Well, the second one will be a little better. And they go, you know, they have N95s on. I go, no, they don't. And no one told me they had those masks on.

[Dana Carvey]

You went out to know they were all. All in the N95s.

[David Spade]

I didn't even think, because we moved it there because it was during COVID And they go, you do get a crowd. They might have to wear masks, but I think of the blue ones, but I heard they walked in, everyone had to take theirs off. And they were given the worst kind of, like, drywall mask.

[John Mulaney]

What state is this in?

[David Spade]

It was in. It was Minnesota. And I have to say, they were a good crowd. It's just when 50% of it's gone and you can't hear it as. Because they're. They even look like a good crowd. They're moving, they're bending over laughing. And I'm like. And, you know, I just see the front rows, but I go, oh, what's going on? Because it's so bright. When I taped, I couldn't really see what.

[Dana Carvey]

I could use six weeks to do it. When they didn't have to have the.

[David Spade]

Mask, well, it was to bore the shit out of you. It was in Austin. And because Netflix, there's some rules, you have to. For Covid, blah, blah. And Austin said, no, we won't abide by it. So I'd either wait six months or the next weekend. I was doing well.

[Dana Carvey]

When you guys go out now, they're not wearing masks or something?

[David Spade]

No, there's still a. There's still a couple, but I think it's.

[John Mulaney]

I think it's dealer's choice. I think you. Yeah, because I see people with them. But those are. For a while, there was show your vax card, or if you don't have it, you get. Sorry. If you showed your backstart, you got a wristband. If you didn't have a wristband, you had to have the mask on. There's been. But crowds have been really understanding about it, which is nice.

[David Spade]

At least they're still coming, which is nice.

[John Mulaney]

And that's whenever there's a surge, too. Whenever there's a surge on tour, it's sort of like, okay, you know, some stuff might get canceled and like, whatever Is best for the health and safety of the crowd is the best choice. But I'll sometimes look at the map in my calendar and be like, well, I got. Luckily, luckily, like, my Florida and Arizona won't be canceled.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[John Mulaney]

You look at states where you're like.

[Dana Carvey]

They'Re never gonna cancel.

[John Mulaney]

They're never gonna cancel.

[David Spade]

Well, they say some people, for a while there during when there's a last surge, they go, just expect about 20 to 30% don't show. They buy the tickets, it's sold out, but they don't come. And you go, oh. Because they get scared. So it's sort of a bummer because you want the people, whoever gets ticket to come. Sometimes it's tricky.

[John Mulaney]

You know, I found that, like, people in Los Angeles have been more careful than anyone else I know. Like, I was in New York for a lot of the early pandemic. People were obviously extremely sheltering in place then. However, there still was a bit more of a. Sometimes a bit of a cavalier attitude. Like, look, we. We're gonna go out, we're gonna try to do this. LA seemed more locked down for longer. But then this Netflix is a joke festival came and like, everyone I knew who used to lecture about, like, spray down your groceries with, you know, like, all those people are suddenly, like, at a huge brunch with Kevin Hart. Everyone went out. Everyone went out.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Well, John, thank you. And, you know, I always thought you'd make a good day and would he make a good talk show host? Great monologue.

[Dana Carvey]

If you ever want to do that, get going. I mean, as Malcolm gets older, you, you'll be financially so secure. You'll be able to pick your dates and, and pick how you want to work. You know, I go now, it's your. He won't miss you now, but you're going to want to be around when he's, you know, 7 and 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Those are the seven years.

[John Mulaney]

My friend Dan Levy and I, a wonderful comedian and a good friend of mine, Dan Levy and I talk often, Dana, about how, you know, how you specifically. We were like, that might be the best life ever to name a corporate rate that is so high, but have so many people meet it. And you can edit this out of your uncomfortable. Sorry. Oh, no, no, no. When you just ke. I was like, man, what an amazing. We talked so greedily about like, man. Well, I hear Carvey describe all those corporates.

[David Spade]

I wanted to get them out of the house.

[Dana Carvey]

I wanted to get out of them. They kept saying yes. I kept going up and up and up and hoping I'd get out of them. But it was very.

[John Mulaney]

I know it's the greatest problem I've ever heard anyone having, and we're so envious of it.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it's a nice, adaptive way when the kids are in the.

[John Mulaney]

You were off snl, you were living in Northern California and you were naming the highest rates possible.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, it was very, very good. I was hiding in plain sight, making more money than maybe almost anyone, but, like, big movie stars. But no one knew, so they just figured I was broke. So that was good. But it's a pretty good schedule for a dad because you could take two months at Christmas, take summers off, and have your. Just adapt your schedule to when you want to be with them. Anyway.

[John Mulaney]

It is great. Are you guys on the. Are you guys going out on. Are you guys on the road now, too?

[Dana Carvey]

David is.

[David Spade]

I'm on the road.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm doing a scripted podcast. Finishing up, which is hard. It's like making the White Album. It really has taken a year to do it with my two sons.

[John Mulaney]

Oh, right, right. Yeah, I've heard on this. I've heard on this podcast.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. So I'm working on that. But I'm kind of itching to do stand up again. I don't know what I would say or what I would do though, at this age, you know, because it's like, you don't want to be boring. That's. That's the worst sin of a stand up, I think. It's hard, boring.

[David Spade]

You don't want to be canceled, but.

[Dana Carvey]

You don't want to be canceled. You want to be honest, you want to be real, you want to be funny. But for me, doing small clubs with my sons, I figured out for me personally, being a sketch player at heart, I was so much better in small rooms. I mean, because I'm doing these little intricate little characters and stuff. So I love small rooms. But big rooms play different. You know, if they have screens, it's very nice. I'm sure Madison Square Garden, you're gonna have big screens.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's sort of these like portrait length screens. They really do. I was very. When this tour started, I was like, okay, this is gonna be cool. But is this gonna just be like yelling in a hockey arena? And everyone's like, what?

[David Spade]

But I gotta see the faces and stuff.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. The production and my tour manager, Beth, like, it's been made into a really good show, I think.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

He's like, I have Kid Rock's trucker guy that runs the 18 wheeler with all my stuff.

[John Mulaney]

My favorite thing about touring arenas is that is like talking to bus drivers.

[David Spade]

Who they just had here.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. Who were you just with? Like, well, Robert Plant. Robert Plant, Steve Harvey, then you. And I'm like, I love it. I love that.

[Dana Carvey]

Have you ever gotten right before you went on dinged like that from some well meaning crew guy? Last week, Sinbad came in here. I gotta tell you, he took every local reference he destroyed. Now, Danoferfo, I mean, do you ever get dinged like that where it's like Chris Rock levitated this arena?

[John Mulaney]

I don't think. I don't think he was trying to ding me. But I still.

[Dana Carvey]

No, no, not unintentional, no, no.

[John Mulaney]

But no. Brian Dorfman, a booker, a promoter. Excuse me, Brian, I apologize. You're a producer and a promoter and whatever other things you do. But I was backstage at Nashville, Zany's, and we're standing there and I'm really about to walk out. And he just goes. I remember promoting Pauly Shore. And when the door opened and the shadow of his profile hit the stage. I've never heard a crowd go crazier. For it's like as I'm about to walk out, as you're about to walk out. I've never heard a crowd go crazier for someone. And it was the greatest stand up show I'd ever seen.

[Dana Carvey]

I know they go on and on.

[David Spade]

It was.

[Dana Carvey]

No one has ever done anything like this, but you'll be fine. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Then he pauses to go, hey, got any new stuff?

[John Mulaney]

I remember someone else at Zany's, Nashville. I was like, at that same weekend, I was like, who are your favorite comics? And this woman, Ruth Ann, who was managing the club. I go, who are your favorite comics? You know, and like a lot of people, this was like 2004, you know, people would go like, oh, Attell Hedberg. You know, people just list the same names. And she goes, okay, oh, here we go. And I was like, uh huh, uh oh. And I can't remember exactly the three, but it's. The first was Tony Rock. She goes, tony Rock. I go, okay. She goes, funnier than Chris. I go, okay, okay, okay. She goes, funnier than Chris. Chick McGee. I think maybe the last one was Killer Bees. Who's a killer Bees? Killer Bees is a road. Is an American comedian not known to everyone. But she goes, killer Bees is the best comic I've ever.

[David Spade]

Funnier than Chris.

[Dana Carvey]

You know you need new material. You know you need new material. When someone says to you. No matter how many times I hear your stuff, I still laugh, you know? You know, you need a new laugh.

[David Spade]

Yeah, Yeah.

[John Mulaney]

I. The sound guys, the lighting technicians, everyone I'm on this tour with is amazing, and they are very sweet about it, but they're like, we. As we're setting up, we just recite your jokes. And I was like, man, that's such a compliment. But it makes me feel like. So you're saying I don't have enough new stuff?

[David Spade]

All right, John, get out of here.

[John Mulaney]

I like that. I like that you guys are acting like I have somewhere to be, but I don't.

[Dana Carvey]

I know.

[John Mulaney]

I keep making the interview longer.

[Dana Carvey]

I know.

[David Spade]

But it is fun because people like to hear from you.

[John Mulaney]

Oh, one little SNL memory I have of just how big and inescapable the show felt was. I was hired August 7, 2008. And then we have the commercial writing weeks. We start pre production for the show. Not pre production. We start. Everyone's kind of back, and we're gonna shoot commercial parodies. Then we have the first show week and the first show that I was ever a part of, Michael Phelps hosted, and it was the first time Tina Fey did Sarah Palin. So that fall, SNL is like, back kind of like, to being. When you guys were on, like, it felt like. Felt like the 92 election again. It was, like, huge. And it was on every magazine cover, and Seth and Amy are on every magazine cover, and Tina's on every magazine cover. It was so big. And we did these Thursday primetime update shows. So we did 12 total. We did 12 shows in eight weeks. And I just remember I was sitting in a taxicab going home, and my eye was all infected from being awake so long. And a bus pulls up next to me, and it's a Gap ad with Forte Sudeikis, Andy, Seth and Fred. They did a winter clothes, scarves, and hats. But I just remember being like, I can't fucking escape this show. And still haven't you? Never.

[Dana Carvey]

It's a seminal moment in your life, being in Rockefeller center, doing that thing with all the characters.

[John Mulaney]

Well, yeah. It's like saying, hey, I used to play for the Yankees. Now I have a sports marketing company. Which would you rather talk about?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that's true. There's nothing experientially or tactically like that show.

[David Spade]

People always have a question about it, something about it.

[Dana Carvey]

That's why we're doing the podcast and to hang out with people like you.

[John Mulaney]

I love the podcast. I've listened to every episode I was very flattered to be asked.

[Dana Carvey]

You must have a lot of free time or that's when you're on the bus or the plane or a lot.

[John Mulaney]

Of driving and a lot of driving. A lot of bus.

[David Spade]

Yeah, he's used to that. We talk over each other, Dana.

[Dana Carvey]

John. Yeah, well, we have. Well, yeah. Smart List has three guys.

[John Mulaney]

Did you like doing the live one with Sandler?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah, yeah, it was.

[David Spade]

It should have filmed it. It's fucking great. It was so fun.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Different sport, but. Different sport.

[John Mulaney]

But it's. Whenever there's a live episode of a podcast I love, I'm like, this is like, no one's. Everyone's bringing out the big guns on this.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah, well, yeah, you just, you.

[Dana Carvey]

Tend to perform a little more. But yeah, I just. If I put myself in the shoes of the. I'm there with Adam Sandler and David Spade, it. So there's a sense of like, I'd like to just hear what Adam Sandler had for breakfast. You know, they want to, they want to know you as a person. The one thing we haven't done with you, we don't have to. Because I always like to put. Think of 10 year old John Mulaney because I like that favorite toy as a kid or a toy that you remember that you really was important to you or you liked.

[John Mulaney]

Oh, that's a good question.

[David Spade]

Cocaine.

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. Little bags of cocaine and rolled up dollar bills.

[Dana Carvey]

David had stretched Armstrong, didn't you, David and evil.

[David Spade]

Can you Stretch Armstrong was a fucking scam.

[John Mulaney]

I liked anything. I liked anything with Ernie. I kind of. With Ernie from Burton Ernie. I sort of realized later in life that Ernie was like. I thought Ernie was so funny. Ernie is really funny. He doesn't give a fuck. And his roommate's uptight.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Which one's gay? Bird or. Oh, I think bird is.

[John Mulaney]

The rumor was that they were both gay.

[David Spade]

I guess that's how it would work.

[Dana Carvey]

Okay. Did you have a bike that was special to you? Like in fourth, fifth, sixth grade, I.

[John Mulaney]

Had a bike which growing up in Chicago, like, it's an easy city to bike around. That was like, we already had a lot of freedom. Like we were a little feral. I just walked around the city of Chicago as a like 10, 9 year old. Like we really could just go. I remember having a bike and riding it along the lake from my home to like the middle of downtown Chicago. And I was like, this is so much freedom, it's crazy.

[David Spade]

It won't be like that with your kid, huh?

[John Mulaney]

No, I Mean, that's an interesting. It's an interesting thing. Cause, Olivia, you want it to be good. We want it to be, but then we obviously I'm like, do I have the stomach for just being like, all right, see ya.

[David Spade]

Do you have the Instagram followers? Can you handle what they're gonna say about that?

[John Mulaney]

Yeah. Hey, leaving Malcolm alone on Michigan Avenue.

[David Spade]

Yeah. He'll be home by. When it gets dark like I did. Is this a good idea? Question mark, arrow to comments.

[Dana Carvey]

And you and I haven't talked.

[John Mulaney]

Off below.

[David Spade]

Sound off, let me know.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you have ideas of where you would like to settle with the time school years start, or is it just completely wide open? You don't have to mention a town or anything, but do you think it's either Southern California, New York or out there somewhere?

[John Mulaney]

Yeah, we're very open to different places. You know, I mean, I feel like also the. Me and Olivia and Malcolm have been on the road so much that we kind of, you know, we're in this place of like home is wherever we're together, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. They're just so portable now. And you had told me once that you thought flying too much might age people. So do you take more buses and cars?

[John Mulaney]

I said that.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought you said.

[David Spade]

Always saying that, always that you thought.

[Dana Carvey]

Maybe flying too much was.

[John Mulaney]

Sounds a little speedy. Cokey talk.

[David Spade]

Oh, we had some Go Go juice.

[Dana Carvey]

That's why we were jamming. We were jamming on the Mickey Rooney sketch when you said that. So I didn't know you were not. No, no, but I thought you said that.

[John Mulaney]

But no, I do think that. No, there's something like, you know how you feel when you get off a plane and your feet are all swollen and like your stomach's weird. I was like, this is not. You shouldn't do this constantly. Like, like bring a. Bring up. You know, you bring like a half empty 20 ounce bottle of soda on a plane, put it in your backpack and then see what the pressure's done to it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

It's not normal what, what it does to your body. I get done with that phase of.

[John Mulaney]

Celebrity now where I weigh in on health theories. So I'm going to go out ahead and say that planes, no one should be flying.

[Dana Carvey]

John Malay. This week we got our trailer.

[John Mulaney]

Weak. Drug addict John Mulaney said no.

[David Spade]

Drug addict John Blaney.

[Dana Carvey]

Flying is dangerous. And not because you're going to crash, but you're.

[John Mulaney]

Neil Brennan said when I first got back to doing stand up, he said, you should be introduced. Neil Brennan said this. He goes, you should be introduced as you know him from tmz. Please welcome Drugs.

[David Spade]

Drug addict is funny. Let's end on that one. That's funny.

[John Mulaney]

All right, guys.

[David Spade]

Miss you, John.

[Dana Carvey]

Pleasure.

[John Mulaney]

Love you. See you somewhere.

[Dana Carvey]

Bye, guys on campus.

[David Spade]

Hey, guys. If you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, Give us review 5 star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

[Dana Carvey]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[David Spade]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey, our senior producer producer.

[Dana Carvey]

Is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet tech.

[David Spade]

Booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

[Dana Carvey]

Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[David Spade]

Reach out with us. Any questions be asked and answered on the show? You can email [e-mail] that's a U-C-Y dot com.