RE-RELEASE - Robert Smigel

Summary

Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade
Episode: RE-RELEASE – Robert Smigel
Release Date: March 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Fly on the Wall is a lively, joke-packed deep dive into the world of sketch comedy and Saturday Night Live, celebrating the extraordinary career of Robert Smigel—legendary writer, performer, and creator (best known as the voice of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog and as a head writer for Conan O’Brien). Dana, David, and Robert (with plenty of Triumph’s biting humor) reminisce about their days at SNL, dissect classic sketches, and explore the evolution (and absurdities) of comedy writing, impressions, and showbiz culture. Witty banter, honest self-reflection, and backstage stories come thick and fast, making it a must-listen for comedy aficionados.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Banter and The Triumph Entrance [14:06 – 21:10]

• Smigel’s Entrance as Triumph:

  • Smigel launches into the episode not as himself but as Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, who immediately roasts Dana, David, the show, and podcasting in general.
  • Triumph quips: “This is a great show… Wall. Not for me to poop on. No, no, fantastic show.” (15:03–15:10)
  • On old white comedians: “Old white people complimenting old white people…” (19:10–19:23)

• Meta-commentary on Podcasting:

  • The crew riffs on the explosion of podcasts (“There’s 2.8 million podcasts… It’s like Covid. There’s more every day…” — Spade, 20:41), and the self-congratulatory nature of comedy podcasts.

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2. SNL Backstage Culture and Writer Dynamics [21:10 – 31:00]

• The Lauren Michaels Impression & Office Politics:

  • Smigel and Carvey swap stories about how everyone backstage eventually tries a Lorne Michaels impression — and how Dana’s became famous for going “one step beyond” reality.
  • Exposes the culture of passive-aggressive versus openly ambitious writers at SNL, with anecdotes about Jon Lovitz (“He’d say, ‘they cut it because it was too funny…’” — Carvey, 27:58), and how carving a unique niche for yourself was often tough.

• SNL Auditions and New Cast Members:

  • David Spade discusses his joke about being “Chief Not-in-Show” (22:24)—i.e., often written into few sketches as a newbie.
  • Smigel gives a behind-the-scenes take on cast and audition perceptions, revealing that Spade was originally seen as a “Dana Carvey type,” which created confusion and pigeonholing (23:06).

  Notable Quote:

  • Smigel: “People like Sawyer…thought you’d be the next Dana Carvey but weren’t letting your full persona out yet.” (22:52)

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3. Collaboration, Impressions & Sketch Creation [29:41 – 36:30]

• How Impressions Seep into Sketches:

  • Carvey would hand out a list of impressions to writers hoping it’d spark ideas for sketches—a refreshing openness with the writing staff.
  • Smigel recalls building Carson and Regis impressions: “I wrote it for Phil Hartman… but Dana was right, he just looked more like Regis.” (31:47)

  Notable Moment:

  • The “Regis explosion” anecdote, bonding over the way Regis would make exceptions and shout excitedly.

• Process for Abstract Impressions:

  • Discussion of “abstract” impressions—where the impersonation becomes its own caricature (e.g., Travolta’s exaggerated “weird” and “slack” catchphrases).

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4. Sketches That Ruffled Feathers: Dealing with Real-Life Reactions [36:30 – 54:30]

• Johnny Carson's Mixed Reactions:

  • The crew reveals Carson was actually upset by one SNL sketch, believing he was being portrayed as senile because of a change in the cold open guest (from Sinead O’Connor to Susan Dey).
  • “He said this on his own show—‘they’re saying I’m senile’…” — Smigel (52:08)
  • Carvey reflects: “I’d be flattered to become a caricature—even if it means I can’t get on the show anymore.” (53:10)

• Impact of Satire on the Satirized:

  • Smigel expresses increasing empathy with age, aware that sketches sometimes inadvertently sting their targets:
    “When you get older and life kicks you in the nuts… you realize how tough careers are.” (43:33)

  Notable Quote:

  • Smigel on Adam Sandler’s advice: “You feel good about that? What if that guy’s home watching… he’s had a hard day. What did I do?” (44:44)

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5. Notable Sketch Stories and Writerly Insights [54:42 – 61:45]

• Legendary Sketches:

  • Schmidt’s Gay (beer commercial parody) — Smigel details its origins and emphasizes its subversiveness: “The joke was turning the tables on objectifying, sexist beer commercials.” (57:59–58:00)
  • TV Funhouse and the “Ambiguously Gay Duo” — Smigel’s foray into cartoons, including a memorable moment showing Lorne Michaels as an animated character (“He called it ‘putting a beanie on the boss’…” — 59:40)

• Affection for Nerd Culture:

  • Smigel’s “nerd affinity” shines in his Triumph segments at Star Wars lines and in writing the famous William Shatner “Get a Life!” Star Trek convention sketch.
  • Experiences ribbing celebrities (like Don Rickles) and why being roasted is a “badge of honor” (62:52).

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6. Tributes and Reflections on SNL History [66:45 – 75:30]

• The Night of Too Many Stars:

  • Smigel describes producing the star-heavy autism benefit (“The funniest title ever for a benefit”—Spade, 65:45). He retells the “all-star band” sketch where Lou Reed performed with comedians and the comic tension when Reed sternly asked Carvey not to play so hard on the drums (67:59).
  • “Maybe it was nerves. But… he was totally affable later.” — Carvey on Lou Reed (68:00)

• SNL Character Creation:

  • Anecdotes about being urged to write up your own “character sheet” pre-SNL—David Spade, a standup, “just made up stuff in case it clicked” (26:40).
  • Discussion of writers’ signature sketches—Jack Handey’s unique voice and why his sketches always made the show, regardless of audience laughs.

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7. Deconstructing the "Chippendales" Farley Sketch [70:38 – 75:30]

• Was it Exploitative or Empowering?

  • The group reflects on the legacy of the infamous Farley Chippendales sketch, addressing debates over whether it exploited Farley’s body.
  • Smigel’s take: “All I saw was an audience fall in love with Chris… Not remotely ashamed of his body—if anything, it was empowering.” (71:19)
  • Carvey and Smigel emphasize the grace and athleticism Farley brought to physical comedy and confirm there was no backroom resentment—just an epic sketch that launched Farley into stardom.

  Notable Quote:

  • Smigel: “To me, the only thing it was exploiting was what made him special.” (73:17)

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8. Rapid-Fire “What Else Didn’t We Cover?” Section [77:00 – 81:24]

• Dana Carvey Show:
  Brief mention of the short-lived, cult-favorite variety show, with Smigel joking, “So funny that we didn’t talk about the Dana Carvey Show.” (77:01)

• Hans & Franz Movie:
  They lament not covering more about the unmade Hans and Franz movie, joyfully recalling Siskel & Ebert’s cameo and the script’s genius.

• Triumph and Cultural Impact:
  Smigel’s journey as Triumph, plus the “Ambiguously Gay Duo,” and relentless pushing of boundaries in parody and cartoon formats.

• Jack Handey’s Brilliance:
  Smigel and the hosts sing the praises of iconic SNL writer Jack Handey, marveling at the singularity of his sketches (e.g., Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer) and the awe Handey inspired among writers.

  Memorable Quote:

  • Smigel: “If you polled the writers of that era, they’d have gone with Jack…nobody else could have thought of almost any of the sketches Jack Handey wrote.” (81:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Triumph introduces himself:
  “Honestly, this is a great show. Wall. Not for me to poop on. No, no, fantastic show.” — Triumph (15:03)

• On podcasting culture hype:
  “Saturday Night Live hasn’t gotten enough attention. Or retrospectives. Or anniversary shows…” — Triumph (15:33)

• On Lorne’s legacy:
  “Lauren had a term for every comedy move in the world... everything anyone’s written, I’ve seen a version of it.” — Smigel (59:56)

• Sandler on empathy:
  “You feel good about that? What if that guy’s home watching…?” — Smigel, recounting Sandler’s concern post-cartoon parody (44:44)

• Reflecting on Farley’s fearlessness:
  “What I saw was an audience fall in love with Chris because he was so committed and he was such a good dancer.” — Smigel (71:19)

• Jack Handey’s unique legacy:
  “Nobody else could have thought of almost any of the sketches Jack Handey wrote.” — Smigel (81:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [14:06] – Triumph the Insult Comic Dog takes over
• [21:10] – SNL inside baseball: Writer dynamics, “Chief Not-in-Show”
• [29:41] – Impressions & sketch collaboration
• [36:30] – Satire and real-world fallout (Johnny Carson sketch)
• [54:42] – Discussion of legendary SNL sketches & TV Funhouse
• [61:45] – Shatner/Trekkie sketch, Triumph’s nerd affinity, Don Rickles stories
• [66:45] – “Night of Too Many Stars,” Lou Reed all-star band
• [70:38] – The Chippendales Farley Sketch: reactions and legacy
• [77:00] – Rapid-fire “what we didn’t get to” (Dana Carvey Show, Hans & Franz movie)
• [81:24] – Jack Handey and the art of the unforgettable sketch

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Final Thoughts

The episode blends sharp wit, poignant reflections, and behind-the-scenes candor, spotlighting the enduring legacy of Robert Smigel. From searing SNL satire to the surprising real world impacts of comedy, Smigel, Carvey, and Spade remind us how showbiz remains both a playground and a crucible for creative minds. For SNL fans, improv heads, and anyone curious how modern sketch comedy was—and is—made, this is essential, hilarious listening.

Transcript

[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

I've heard all my stuff.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

That's fantastic. Stop filling your closet with options that don't work. Focus on a few pieces that actually do. Right now, go to quince.com fly for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it.

[David Spade]

And you will now available in Canada too. So don't keep settling. For clothes that don't last. Go to Q u I n c e.com fly for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.comflot I just have to tell you, Dana, there's something I'm excited about. Now, you remember we talked about Jury Duty, the show.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah.

[David Spade]

Season one. Yeah, yeah. And that one. I saw it on TikTok and then it was kind of a word of mouth thing. It blew up. It was funny. And it actually all pulled together, which I was shocked. They pulled that thing together.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And I was like, will they do it again? And they did.

[Dana Carvey]

And.

[Robert Smigel]

Cool.

[Dana Carvey]

I think that's very cool.

[David Spade]

It was set in the courtroom the first time. And this is going to be a company retreat. Yeah. Yeah. Jury Duty presents Company Retreat. It takes this groundbreaking social experiment out of the courthouse. Stay with me, Dana.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I got it.

[David Spade]

And drops it into the most relatable setting ever. Oh, yeah. Company corporate retreat. And if you've ever survived that awkward team building exercises or a trust fall with co workers. You. You know the vibe.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. I mean, this is an inspired idea, I gotta say. After Jury Duty, to put it in a company retreat. This season follows Anthony, a real temp hired by Rockin Grandma's Hot Sauce for their annual retreat. Right there.

[David Spade]

They should figure it out. Rockin Grandma's Hot Sauce.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I know it's. Except he has no idea. The entire thing is staged around him.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

It's a workplace comedy meets hidden camera. And it's unpredictable, it's authentic. It's so full of heart. The stakes are higher, the laughs are bigger, and it still celebrates the goodness in people. And here's the wild part. Rock and Grandma's hot sauce. They're actually making it.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

And the flavors will be available on Amazon.

[David Spade]

Oh, my God. I wonder if they started that first or if they. They just made up that name and then it sounded funny and it's going to get a lot of attention. But, you know, this thing I'm kind of glad they didn't do in the courtroom again. Someone would figure that out, I would think.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I don't think they could do it in the courtroom. I think the company retreat is the next best one. Yeah.

[David Spade]

It's hard to think of where to do it, but they did a good job, so. Looking forward to that.

[Dana Carvey]

Me, too. Watch now on Prime Video. Robert Smigel. Robert Smigel coming back at you. You know, we will say this a lot, but arguably the best sketch writer. There's no such thing as the best. He's among the greatest comedy sketch writers of his generation, and he's written a lot of movies with Sandler and so. And he's our friend, and it was just fun.

[David Spade]

And does Triumph, the dog. That's very ornery.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I think he does a lot of Triumph and Triumph, actually. Well, you'll see. It gets a little. It gets heated a little bit between us. And Triumph.

[David Spade]

Oh, that's right. And Triumph. Also Smile. Didn't he. Wasn't he the head writer for Conan for a while for the first show.

[Dana Carvey]

For the talk show? He did, yeah. Yeah, he's the head writer there. And he's.

[David Spade]

He was one of my bosses at SNL because he was always in the room picking sketches with Franken and Downey and Lauren. So he always had a lot of pole. He does Night of a Night of Too Many Stars. I think that's for autism.

[Dana Carvey]

Right?

[David Spade]

This is charity.

[Dana Carvey]

He did the Dana Carvey show that lasted eight episodes with Dino Stoppinopolis that does Steve Carell and Stephen Colbert. Whoops. All Star Louis CK Louis CK I hired as my head writer.

[David Spade]

I mean, no Big did pretty well. All right, so here's Robert Smigo. We have a lot of laughs because we know him very well.

[Dana Carvey]

Enjoy.

[Robert Smigel]

All the momentum we had with the Lauren impression.

[David Spade]

Oh, we were. Oh, yeah. And you were saying, Lorne, you did an impression before that, before Dana Mark McKinney.

[Robert Smigel]

Mark McKinney did. The only person who did it my first year was Mark McKinney. And he did like a beautifully accurate Lauren, like a well observed Lauren. And actually said complete sentences.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And it was very impressive. But then the next year, I just started doing cartoony Lauren on my own. And then I went into. I remember going into Dana's office and you know, and I admitting that I sort of do Lauren like, you know, I want to ready to show and looks. I think Dana. And then Dana's like, oh, yeah, I do Lauren too. And Dana starts going like, oh, what do you think of Act 3? Just had that move. Like something Lauren's never done in his life.

[Dana Carvey]

I did a lot of things he never did.

[Robert Smigel]

Incredibly, it was just perfect. It was like this. Self satisfied.

[Dana Carvey]

Still have no first act.

[Robert Smigel]

I've got no first act, no code.

[Dana Carvey]

Marcy, look at the book of horn, please.

[Robert Smigel]

Chapter two, Frank and Ride a Bush. Franken writer Bush. Franken writer Bush.

[Dana Carvey]

There was a lot of Bush cold openings.

[David Spade]

Franken, right.

[Dana Carvey]

Remember, Robert, when you made the cartoon thing where you flipped the pages?

[Robert Smigel]

What's. What was it? Which cartoon?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I was doing Bush Senior so much I didn't know that the writing staff was kind of like again. So then I saw a thing where it's like a flip page where it was. Yeah. And he sp. You spin it and see me as.

[David Spade]

It was like.

[Robert Smigel]

It was like a series of. It was like one of those flip.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

What was it?

[Robert Smigel]

It was like. Was it Franken putting Bush cold open on the.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought it was Bush taking a poo or something. I thought it was scatological.

[David Spade]

I like Frank and putting the card on the. On the lineup.

[Robert Smigel]

I have to say, Franken takes a beating on your show.

[Dana Carvey]

He's coming. He's coming on very, very soon.

[David Spade]

Well, Sarah got him back by stabbing him in the head with a pencil.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Did you hear that one?

[Robert Smigel]

Well, I, I was not there. That was after I had left for Conan. But do you remember this? Spade? I bet you remember this. So one of the impressions. I was the one, I think, who started that. Like me and Conan. I used to do this thing for Conan of Al. And I feel bad because Al got me the job, actually. And I love Al, but he was tough back then. And so everybody kind of. Yeah. Needed to release some energy. Mine was like Al on his back and like a snapping turtle.

[Dana Carvey]

Flip me over.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought that's why he would. When he was running for senator. I thought he'll be Great in there because Al is blunt and doesn't. He just says what he thinks. I thought that'd be good.

[Robert Smigel]

It was great. But on the.

[Dana Carvey]

But.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, boy, when he was in the Senate, he was my hero because he. He kind of, like, contained himself from being as confrontational. Like, I mean, at the show, his last few years at the show, I think. I think he was kind of unhappy, to be honest with you. I mean, he was like in his 40s, and I don't think this is what he was dreaming of doing in his 40s. And I think it was. I think that's in his defense, like, he was confused as to what he wanted to do with his life. And then he started writing those books, and I think he found direction.

[Dana Carvey]

And yeah, he's always hyper political. And that was fun riding with him and Downey because, you know, these dreams.

[David Spade]

And he's sitting next to Spade at Read through and he's like, what happened? It's like George Siegel and just shoot me goes in the middle of a scene. He'd stop and he goes. He'd look at the crowd. He goes, I did a movie with Elizabeth Taylor and I'm standing next to this now.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, I remember Jan Hooks once saying to me, smygs don't become one of Those writers who's 50 years old and wearing blue jeans and sitting on the floor.

[Dana Carvey]

Whatever you do, it's always sitting on the floor with a nose. True.

[Robert Smigel]

I mean, it's just you never grow

[Dana Carvey]

up when you're at that little sachet where you put your bitterness in a bitterness pouch. We're like, just keep loading things.

[David Spade]

And Al's defense, Get off the show. I did six years. It gets mind numbing, and it gets you in a box of, like, no sun and pizza and ordering in and stress and everyone else's energy. And so you did a long run there, too. You seem pretty normal. But that. That was a long run you had.

[Robert Smigel]

I did a long run that I got out when I was like, 33 and to do the Conan show. And then I came back, but in a much more sane capacity. I just did the cartoons. Yeah.

[David Spade]

And all I had to pay was show up on.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. All I had to do was show up on Saturday. So I wasn't really a part of the thing anymore. But Al was like, you know, there every day, and he's like, in his 40s,

[Dana Carvey]

you know, David, people keep asking about my 2026.

[David Spade]

Yes, they do. I've been one of them. I know what you're trying to say. The people keep asking about your 2026 resolutions, and I've got the usual ones. Read more or read at all.

[Dana Carvey]

Hit the gym.

[David Spade]

Hit the gym. Learn how to crochet, get the knitting needles. But this year, the goal at the very top of my list is simple. Get comfy. I've learned that from Abby. And that's exactly where Bombas comes in. They're bringing next level comfort to my everyday essentials. Take the new Bombas sports socks. They're designed with sport specific comfort for everything from running, hiking, golf. That's what I do. Skiing. And I know you want to get back into running.

[Dana Carvey]

I would really want to get back into running, honestly. For sure. I do a lot of hiking.

[David Spade]

Yeah, they're cushioned right where you need it most. Sweat wicking.

[Dana Carvey]

That's good.

[David Spade]

Is that good?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it keeps the sweat away. Packed with tech that keeps you comfortable and locked in. So comfy socks. It's a great idea.

[David Spade]

So for every day around the house resolutions, Bombas has the comfiest footwear imaginable. I've been living in their Sherpa Sunday slippers for things like weekend resets when I'm spring cleaning, when I'm just doing this and that around the house. Honestly, they look very squishy and you wouldn't know this, but it's like walking

[Dana Carvey]

on clouds underneath it all. Bombas. Yeah. Underwear and T shirts. Yeah, David. They're flexible, breathable, and buttery smooth. Plus, for every item you buy, one is donated to someone facing housing insecurity.

[David Spade]

Head over to bamas.com flywall and use code flywall for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com flywall code fly wallet checkout. One of my favorite things we've ever created for this podcast was a set of custom T shirts for our team. Remember that? We had the hoodies, we had the sweats. When that arrived, I remember seeing everyone put it on, thinking, this is really happening. We're a small business now.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, yes.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

Look at these.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

And if you need a little guidance, their design tools and human support are always there to help you get it just right. There's a reason, David. Over 1 million people trust Vistaprint or their small business print needs. It helps you show up polished, confident, ready to grow. Vistaprint print your possible right now, new customers get 20% off with code [e-mail]. what's the matter with you? Get printing.

[David Spade]

Well, let's get back to Smigel's unbelievable career.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you want to be a little bit. Do we want to go a little bit to young Smuggle first? Would you like to go later?

[Robert Smigel]

Young smile? Or what about. Can. Can my friend come on? Because he thinks young Smiggles are fucking bored.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Let me see. Who do you got over there?

[Robert Smigel]

He's been. He's been. He's been riding me ever since.

[Dana Carvey]

This is.

[Robert Smigel]

This is unique.

[Dana Carvey]

For Fly on the Wall we have a guest with a special guest.

[Robert Smigel]

Have a guest with a guest who's just. I don't know, he just thinks that he can jazz it up, you know.

[David Spade]

You better behave.

[Robert Smigel]

Should I bring him out?

[Dana Carvey]

Bring him out.

[Robert Smigel]

Why not? Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, goodness.

[Robert Smigel]

What? Here I am. Here I am. Finally. God. Jesus Christ. What a long wait. No, this is terribly exciting. So exciting.

[Dana Carvey]

I Triumph.

[David Spade]

Do not make fun of this show or us. Triumph. I didn't. Please.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, I know. I understand. Those are the ground rules I have to work with. No, no. No jokes about the show. No. No making fun of anyone. Okay, good.

[Dana Carvey]

Okay, good.

[Robert Smigel]

Honestly, this is a great show. Wall. Not for me to poop on. No, no. Fantastic show.

[David Spade]

That's good.

[Robert Smigel]

Fly on the Wall. There's a lot of buzz I hear around Fly.

[David Spade]

Good job. Triumph. Thank you.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. The same kind of buzz flies make around my ass. You see, because it's not as attract. And this show is what makes sense that you see the joke you get.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that took a turn. But I like it.

[Robert Smigel]

It's. It's what? It's a switcheroo. Spade. It's a great show. It fills the need, you know, because let's face it, Saturday Night Live, it hasn't gotten enough attention. Or retrospectives or anniversary shows. I mean, honestly. I mean, just the other day I was thinking this. After watching my Best of Finesse Mitchell dvd, I was thinking, why. Why has SNL been written about only slightly more than World War and today's show? My goodness, how did you land this guest? They hand up my ass. Seriously, I'm worried. I'm a little concerned. This is your first Season, You've already run out of people we care about.

[David Spade]

No, Smiggle's a big deal. He wrote a lot of great sketches.

[Robert Smigel]

Hey, sure he is. Everybody stay tuned. We've got the fourth funniest guy from the bear sketch, and you have to explain what the sketch was to people under 60. Trouble. This is what you're looking forward to. You already did Sandler Rock, Mike Myers. This is your future. This is pretending to be interested in questions. Like, tell me, in coming up with Goat Boy, which came first to you, the goat or the boy? Is it a boy who becomes a goat or a goat who becomes a boy? Our listeners. Really? Our 10 remaining listeners, or.

[David Spade]

I know there's more.

[Dana Carvey]

Jan, we didn't get the news.

[Robert Smigel]

No, I kid. I kid again.

[David Spade]

Oh, he's kidding, Dana.

[Robert Smigel]

No, no, your show's great. It's a very, very successful money grab. I mean, hit. You have, like, how many subscribers? You've got, like, 400, 000 listeners, right? Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm gonna say yes.

[Robert Smigel]

And not to this episode, that's for sure. But up till now, here, the. All we can hope today is to beat Alan's White Bell's numbers.

[David Spade]

Numbers.

[Robert Smigel]

And who better guests, who better to co host this show than Dana Carvey, one of the all time greatest cast members on Saturday night?

[David Spade]

Thank you.

[Robert Smigel]

Why. Why would you say that? It's almost as if you think I'm going to hurt your feelings.

[David Spade]

No, I think it's a big compliment.

[Robert Smigel]

Exactly. Dana Carvey, one of the all time greatest cast members of Saturday Night Live, and David Spade, who was also on the show. Spades everywhere. Spade is doing great. He's everywhere. This, Dana, this is actually a boost for you. You know, audiences are connecting with you again. That's what's great. I only wish, Dana, that you did this show like 15 years ago, you know, when podcasts were starting and all the people you do impressions of were still alive.

[Dana Carvey]

Now I've lost a lot of them.

[Robert Smigel]

Now it's like, hey, folks, what would happen? What if Ross Perot and Jimmy Stewart weren't rotting corpses slowly disintegrating into the soil? Might go something like this.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, well, you're. You're trying to be president. Yeah. Like here, can I finish one time? I'll just do it there. I did your act.

[Robert Smigel]

It's like the audio 6 sense. I hear dead people. I'm sorry, is this wrong? This is a podcast. You're supposed to. You're supposed to be complimenting each other. That's what it is, right?

[David Spade]

I mean, yeah, that's what podcasts are.

[Robert Smigel]

White people complimenting each other.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

We need more. Pretty nice.

[Robert Smigel]

Old white people complimenting old white people. Old white people compliment. I got a theme song for you. Harmonize with me. Old white people complimenting old white people.

[Dana Carvey]

Old white white people.

[Robert Smigel]

It's very hard to do over. Zoom. I just realized. Yes, Listen, Spade.

[David Spade]

Yes.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't. I don't want to. And so you've had an amazing career.

[David Spade]

Thank you.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. Tommy boy then starring in a string of hit sitcoms that no one remembers waiting for him to fake laugh.

[David Spade]

I'm laughing.

[Robert Smigel]

Hey, and God bless Bernie Brillstein. Right? He started the whole thing off. Right.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Robert Smigel]

Guy calling the creators of Just Shoot Me and gently coaxing Steve Levitan to hire his client. Relief. I'm so sorry. No, I didn't mean to.

[David Spade]

Easy trim. I think we got to put people.

[Dana Carvey]

We got to let them know that's. That's showed your thing. You did your thing.

[Robert Smigel]

Did try and hurt your feelings. I need to know.

[Dana Carvey]

Not at all.

[Robert Smigel]

A little bit.

[David Spade]

Spade now. Because I thought Triumph is a little older now, and maybe he was not like that anymore.

[Robert Smigel]

No, no. It's like, it's. I'm older. That's the problem. Like, I didn't give a shit about this when I started trying.

[David Spade]

I know.

[Dana Carvey]

I. I liked old white people complimenting other old white people or something like that.

[David Spade]

We looked it up. There's 2.8 million podcasts.

[Robert Smigel]

Are you kidding me?

[David Spade]

It's like. It's like Covid. It's just. There's more every day, and no one knows what to do, and people are getting affected with it.

[Robert Smigel]

Here's what I've observed about this one, because I've listened to a few.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

And what's very funny to me, Spade, is like, you're one of the funniest persons in the world. This is an old white person compliment.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Old white person. Come on.

[Robert Smigel]

This show. It's all about a life you lived when you were, like, in the 90s, and you kind of have to revert. It's. You're always reverting to that guy at the show who hadn't made it big. Oh, yeah. Like always. Like. Yeah. No, you guys were incredible, and I didn't know what to do.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Robert Smigel]

It's just funny to me that Spade, who's had this amazing run.

[David Spade]

Well, it does. When we throw back, everybody gets back in that around the writer's table and how ordering Huxley's and all the stupid. It sort of throws you back to the dim lighting and feeling like all the time.

[Robert Smigel]

The stressful. Would you consider it? I would say, like, I love the show so much and people I met and worked with, and yet I was always stressed.

[David Spade]

Yeah. I also remember how skinny your little office was. Like, I think people thought it was some palatial place. It's these little dungeons. And then I would go along the line and poke my head in to see if I get my name on anybody's sketch. Smaggle.

[Robert Smigel]

Do you remember what my affectionate nickname for you was?

[David Spade]

No.

[Dana Carvey]

What was it? Spudley.

[Robert Smigel]

No. Well, everybody had Spudley and spinoodles. No. Chief Naughton Show.

[Dana Carvey]

Chief Naughton Show.

[David Spade]

Because I was never in the show. I wasn't in much.

[Dana Carvey]

I think I got in it in 93, 4 or 5.

[David Spade]

I did go once.

[Robert Smigel]

Dana left. Well, that's what was weird.

[David Spade]

The thing.

[Robert Smigel]

So weird. Because you were kind of pigeonholed. I remember your audition.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And you were very funny, but you were kind of like spade light. You weren't like, letting your whole kind of Persona.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And people like Sawyer as, like, this nice looking, kind of blonde guy who did some impression. I think he did. Tom Petty.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

It was like, oh, he's gonna be like a Dana Carvey type. And then. And Dana Carvey was still on the show. So I think people didn't know what to do.

[David Spade]

I think I didn't. But I also wasn't in. In full disclosure, thinking I was the new Dana Carvey. I was like, are you this guy? I go, this guy's the best guy. And he does a million things. I go, I gotta find what I can do. And luckily, like, even that Hollywood minute where Lauren. I was sort of teetering, and then he's like, well, just do more stuff like that, because that makes me a little different from Dana. And then I could find my own little niche or something. I don't know. It was tough. That part was tough.

[Robert Smigel]

Even the receptionist, which was like the best sketch of that season.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

I remember someone in a high position saying, yeah, could Dana play that? No.

[Dana Carvey]

Shit.

[David Spade]

No. Of course he could.

[Dana Carvey]

I came in and played an alien. Right. That I did that.

[David Spade]

I felt bad because I said, you know, it's always hard if you're a writer and if you're a new writer, to put Mike Myers or Dana in something where they don't have a lot to do. But you know, in your head, you're like, oh, it'd be fun. I have access to all these great people and I don't know. They're quietly going, that's not that great. But Dana goes, yeah, I'll do whatever. So I go, you come in at the end as an alien. I don't realize they're gonna put him in, like, three hours of makeup and hair. Remember you had a big, bulbous head on?

[Dana Carvey]

I had a giant head on.

[David Spade]

No, I can't put Dana through this shit. And it also makes sometimes.

[Robert Smigel]

That was part of being on the team.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah. You know what? I have to say, no one complain.

[Robert Smigel]

Still gets into crazy outfits and two lines and a sketch I liked on the 40th anniversary.

[David Spade]

Steve Martin goes in full King Tut outfit for three lines in a song or whatever because he's committed and it's fun. I love it. And everyone's there.

[Robert Smigel]

And it's also like 70 million people are watching that one.

[David Spade]

Yeah, it's all different.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, you're right.

[Robert Smigel]

Everybody's. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the receptionist. I mean, it's. It was so exciting to see a new person kill, too. Like, that's one of the great things on the show when that happens. Like that guy James, when he did Trump for the first time this year.

[David Spade]

Yeah, he's great.

[Dana Carvey]

It was, like, thrilling, you know, it was amazing. Yeah.

[David Spade]

And when audience finds it. Because I had been sort of kicking around the show for a while, and that was a hard one to. To get on. I think it took a few swings.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, the receptionist. Yeah.

[David Spade]

And then it got on with MC Hammer at 5 to 1. And then the next time it got on, first sketch. So with Roseanne. Yeah, with Roseanne. There's really. There was only like three. So that's the one you remember. It's like, bye, bye.

[Robert Smigel]

There's.

[David Spade]

There's only two of them, but, you know, if they remember what they remember,

[Dana Carvey]

you know, Church lady was on more than 20 times the first season.

[David Spade]

Oh, my God. More than they had shows. Were you on twice?

[Dana Carvey]

An early chat, and then I'd do a good night chat after Jack Handy

[Robert Smigel]

on the David Carvey show, we tried to sneak the church lady into commercials. Remember that?

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah. For real.

[Robert Smigel]

We did that. We were like, can we superimpose the church lady or George Bush over a commercial?

[David Spade]

Were you allowed to use that stuff on Dana Carvey show?

[Dana Carvey]

I. Technically, because of my contract. When I came in, I owned the church lane. That's the last thing.

[Robert Smigel]

It was very different back then. You could, like, write. You could write a list of the characters that you created before going to Saturday Night Live. And Dana had a long list and so, yeah, nowadays it's the complete opposite. Like they own everything. And then you have like, after seven years, you have to do movies with the mandatory.

[Dana Carvey]

Then you do movies, you go back to the show. It is different. You do commercials and movies and you miss shows that you go back in the show. It's pretty cool for the cast.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, it's really. Yeah. Now that's true now. Yeah. Leading up to this 50th, they're all, they're all. They all come and go.

[David Spade]

They. They told me to. Gertie, my manager said, right on the flight out there, write all your characters and give them to Jim Henry. And I'm sitting there with a blank piece of paper on him, Delta going, I don't. What characters? What are you talking about? I'm a stand up. So I'd go skateboard. Crazy guy talks with the lisp. You know, I'm just like making up something in case I write it one day or in case it sounds like a sketch I do and it clicks

[Dana Carvey]

anything like, yeah, you need a man or thing. But Robert, do you want to talk about some of our hits?

[David Spade]

Your big and you.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, we did together.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, I mean, I. Dana. So I was there for a year before Dana, and then I got in

[Dana Carvey]

in 86 with Phil and he was

[Robert Smigel]

like someone I had. I connected with. What I loved about Dana was that he. Spade. You'll understand this, like, generally, like, passive aggressive behavior rules at that show. Like, I was good. I could possibly. No, my sketch is terrible. Don't put my sketch on. It couldn't possibly.

[David Spade]

Me.

[Robert Smigel]

I'm. I'm being paid, like, that's what. And then there's people like Lovitz who are like, what's going on? They're anti Semitic. That's why this sketch didn't make it.

[Dana Carvey]

You know why they cut it? Because it's funny. That's too good. It was too funny. That's why they didn't put it on. Yeah, I was sadly a little closer to John.

[Robert Smigel]

I was like, robert, you have no poker face. Lauren. I remember him telling me there were people like me. I didn't really make big stinks though. But I was, you know, imitating Lauren behind his back. Like everybody, eventually. Now everybody. I'm told everybody. I'm told you go now. Everybody does. Lauren.

[Dana Carvey]

Literally everyone. They all.

[Robert Smigel]

You've seen this? Have you witnessed this? Well, that's what I heard.

[Dana Carvey]

James Austin Johnson had a good one, you know, and.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Bill Hader, of course. Any reason?

[Robert Smigel]

No, but I Think people. They say that people just do it around the office.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, just around you.

[David Spade]

Each other.

[Dana Carvey]

Read through is going to start. Everyone get to their seat. You know, and that's like a first.

[Robert Smigel]

Right. But what I loved about Dana was that he had. He just came in, he had a list of impressions that he, like, handed out to the writers. Like, he wasn't. He didn't pretend that he was above doing that, which was like, so refreshing to actually admit that you care about being like, throat or anything. He was just being straightforward.

[Dana Carvey]

I just thought it made sense. I was able to do a bunch of voices. I thought, well, let the writers get. No, because I realized you guys are just writing sketches. And if someone sees Casey Case or something, maybe they'd put him in. I don't know.

[David Spade]

Of course, that's the best way to do it. Here you go. Here you go, Jack Handy. Here you go, Odenkirk.

[Dana Carvey]

Robert, you approached me with, was Robin Leach doing some kind of Japanese pruning or Aragami?

[David Spade]

I don't know why.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't remember.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, because you'd seen his name on the list. But I had a catchphrase for that one. I'm Robert Leech. I'm yelling and I don't know why.

[Robert Smigel]

Right.

[Dana Carvey]

So I had that.

[David Spade]

I loved Robin Leach.

[Robert Smigel]

But then it was changed for everyone under 70. But Robin lynch was such famous.

[Dana Carvey]

Another one of the celebrity that is no longer with us. One of my impressions, you know, Dino Stapinopoulos, who our listeners might know. Every time someone I do an impression of passes away, he texts me another one, another one down. Whether it's, sorry, Regis or Bush, you

[Robert Smigel]

know, you're going to kill in heaven, Dana someday.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah,

[Robert Smigel]

Dino did that.

[David Spade]

I thought Robin Leach was so hilarious. And he had a great hook for it. I don't know.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, no. Everything. Dana. I thought Dana's Travolta was hysterical because it was so. It was so not what Travolta sounded like in the 80s anymore. No, it's just like he's basically doing an exaggerated welcome back cotter. Looking back, Cotter for everyone.

[Dana Carvey]

If you want to do a John Travolta to just say the word weird.

[David Spade]

Slack.

[Dana Carvey]

So weird.

[Robert Smigel]

Slack

[Dana Carvey]

entry to that. But slack.

[Robert Smigel]

But also slack. So what's that? What's that? Well, it's like Dana would say slack. So we.

[Dana Carvey]

So weird. You know, everybody should.

[Robert Smigel]

That's like we very much connected because we liked and doing. We like doing impressions that were kind of abstract. We like creating abstract impressions. And so, you know, Dana had some under his belt, obviously. And then I tried to help him with, you know, Johnny Carson and Regis. The Regis thing was very strange because, like, I wrote it for Phil Hartman. I wrote it for Phil Hartman. And it went to dress. Didn't do great. And then Dana, in his gentlest, non cutthroat way, just happened upon me like a week later and was like, you know, I'm. Regis is kind of small and Irish and like, I had just had a total blank. I had just picked Phil because he was the oldest member.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And I thought of, I thought of him as just, okay, he's the old guy, comparatively. But Dana was absolutely right. He looked more like Regis. And then he started doing him and.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I, I didn't realize when I started watching in New York, he had essentially just, just got on nationally. But we would get up around nine, Paula and I, and we would watch it and we just fell in love with him.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, yeah. And then guy in the world.

[Dana Carvey]

And then getting to know you. Yeah. Just hanging out in your office. So we started, you know, bouncing off. Are you ready for this ship? Out of control. This guy's crazy. And you had all the, I think one of your things very Robert Smigel or something about, you know, I'm down at the Schreiders and I'm behind Broca. I can, you know, I can't get a seat. You know, so we, we bonded.

[Robert Smigel]

That thing of like the exception explosion. This was something that he really did on the show. And then Bo's got the front row seat and I'm sitting with, you know, Patrick Swayze in the, in the back. Anyway, it was a great event.

[Dana Carvey]

Coffee. Anyway, it was terrific.

[Robert Smigel]

He's got nothing else. So he just, yeah. Goes to Joy.

[David Spade]

Was there Joy.

[Robert Smigel]

Anyway, we wish them well. Yeah. When Joy hosted, that was always Regis was.

[David Spade]

But you can't let Dana around an impression. He comes circling. It's like, all right, just give it to him. He's gonna figure it out.

[Dana Carvey]

JO Then his, when he wrote his book, they said, we want to call it I'm out of control. And he had to go out.

[Robert Smigel]

You know, he never said I'm out of control.

[Dana Carvey]

That was something that made up. He made up. But I don't understand Dana Garney but the, you know, one. So we had, you know, and then Carson came around and just. I started playing around with it.

[Robert Smigel]

I think the Turner's actually had written a Carson sketch.

[Dana Carvey]

Did they?

[Robert Smigel]

And I looked at it. You showed it to me. And I had just a couple of moves in my Head. And then it sort of brought out some moves that you had. Like the thing that I love Johnny Carson so much.

[Dana Carvey]

He was like incredible voice.

[Robert Smigel]

In the 70s, when I was a teenager growing up, I used to watch him constantly. And yeah, he was so charismatic and he's still the greatest ever. But there was then Letterman came on in like the early 80s and immediately got some, you know, the anti talk

[Dana Carvey]

show or whatever you want to call that.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, he was like reinventing everything. And then Johnny, for no good reason, started feeling insecure about it. You could see it on the show because he started trying to do things that Letterman was doing, but he didn't know how to do it the way Letterman did. Letterman would just let them happen. Johnny would be like, we're about to do something that's a little weird. This is a little different. This is not. Not the norm. That's right. Yeah. You know, over. We're going to take a camera and it's going to follow me. I can't do them as well as you, Dana, but it was like, just clincher.

[David Spade]

Jaw.

[Robert Smigel]

I'm gonna clench your jaw. Thank you. The camera is going to follow me and it's going to walk out of the studio and I'm going to go to another set. It's like, okay.

[David Spade]

We always ask unusual questions to people.

[Robert Smigel]

Unusual questions that people are not going to know is even they don't know what's gonna happen. All right, so let's start doing it now. I'm walking. You see, I'm walking across.

[David Spade]

And it was a. Yeah, you were witnessing a bit.

[Robert Smigel]

It's a little weird. And so that was. I was giving him this.

[Dana Carvey]

A little weird.

[Robert Smigel]

I had this expression. He had a couple of things like when Johnny like calls people over to the comedians. The funny stuff. Funny.

[Dana Carvey]

That was funny. Shuff. And then you had weird, wild, weird ones. And for those of you at home, you're watching a thing called a television. You know how you became that where

[Robert Smigel]

we just did the overly set up Johnny Carson thing and then it was so dry. It was maybe the driest thing you ever did on the show, Dana. And then. But it always. Ed McMahon's. Ed McMahon's rhythmically kind of.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Robert Smigel]

Acknowledging it and you know, giving it like, just like. Yes, you are correct, sir. Would always make it work. Was like the fact that you would say these strange things and then Ed would kind of affirm them.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he was the release button. But that was the first time. And I've said this before, but when I was on SNL and Wasn't concerned with the laughs. I just was having so much fun being Johnny. And when I got the wig on, I am Irish Carson Carvey. My eyes are a little close together and I go, God, I kind of look like him, you know, and then I could just look in the mirror and just. Just get into that attitude of being just this, whatever that once you go

[David Spade]

into hair and makeup too, it's just

[Dana Carvey]

that really sets you up. And then the. The third rail of the ones that really had a lot of episodes. Carson did Carcino. We could talk about that, too. Regis had a lot.

[Robert Smigel]

I love to talk about Carinio. Any.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, Carcino. Let's. Let's do that now. Only because that was the extension of the Carson impression.

[Robert Smigel]

We did this. We did one before that that actually did piss Johnny off. And then they. I don't know. I don't know if they asked you to do that late night history show, but they asked me. So I did it and I talked about it. And then they edited to make it look like we didn't really give a shit how Johnny felt. Responded to it. And we did. We were really upset about it. Like, we did this sketch where Arsenio. So Chris Rock gets hired in like 1990 and plays Arsenio Hall. Yeah. Which he didn't do. Like, I remember. I. That's another guy I got to see audition and he was hysterical and like, obviously, you know, incredible, obvious hire. But I remember asking Lauren, does it matter? He doesn't seem to be an impressionist here. Do our shin. You

[David Spade]

don't worry about Chris.

[Robert Smigel]

He's got the hair and he can do Arsenio. Just remember, it's like black guys on the show always had the burden of having to do, like, every black person.

[David Spade]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

We talked about that with Chris. Yeah. Oh, you did a little bit. I think David brought it up.

[David Spade]

Yeah. It is tough because everything just gets assigned and no matter, you know, if it's even close. Okay. Chris, you're doing Al Roker this week.

[Robert Smigel]

Exactly.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Show is diverse now.

[Dana Carvey]

Bit played an Asian character. I played Tony Montana as like, like a Cuban character. You know, I had a bigger.

[David Spade]

I wonder if you could write that. Robert today is like, can you write anyone to play anything? But they are what they are. I don't know how they do it there. I wonder if they have meetings and go, could I play this or.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, at snl.

[David Spade]

Yeah, at snl.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, they definitely let women play men. Men.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

They still let that happen. No, I know. It's, it's, it's it's interesting because, like, even, like, something like, I mean, I totally blackface thing is obviously a red flag. And it's oddly. It's something we didn't do in our era.

[Dana Carvey]

Never found it funny in that 90s.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, the 90s were a strange time where it seemed like the floodgates opened and people were doing exceptionally rude stuff. I don't know if it's because cable was starting and the networks felt the

[David Spade]

need to compete, but you try too hard and you go in different directions that are sometimes wrong directions. You just don't know. And then. Yeah, it levels out. Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

But, like, I just did this puppet show that failed. Whatever. Like, and we had this guy who was going to do Obama, and he had done Obama on the Conan show for, like, three or four years, and he just sounded exactly like Obama. So I wanted to hire him. And then I found out that he was white. I didn't realize. I had no idea. I just knew he sounded exactly like Obama. And they said, you can't hire him.

[David Spade]

Did they ever call you now smile. To write or help or come off the bench? And.

[Robert Smigel]

No, I. I was there when Adam. No, they never call me. They never thought about you. They. Although I actually sent Colin Jost an idea this week and didn't hear back.

[Dana Carvey]

Didn't hear back.

[Robert Smigel]

No, it was an Anna Wintour idea.

[David Spade]

Don't. Don't try to give him Iraqi Pete. That's Adams.

[Robert Smigel]

Actually, you would be great for this on a Win tour idea.

[David Spade]

Is that me playing them or Dana?

[Robert Smigel]

No, I'm talking about spade. It's a very.

[Dana Carvey]

Hey, own that.

[Robert Smigel]

Spade playing on a Wintour. The idea was that she. It was like an update feature where Anna Wintour is sitting next to somebody. Like, who's the guy? Jared Leto. He's always wearing something insane. They just had the Met gala gala.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jared Leto. Yeah, he's got great.

[Robert Smigel]

You know, and then it was just gonna be on a Win tour. Very quietly and dryly and very stiff, insulting, you know, Michael Chase outfit. Michael Chase suit. You know, like, is this a fundraiser for victims of fashion? And then, like, you know, and then she turns to Colin Jost is like, you know, is that a suit or are you being humped by a couch? And then she starts getting rim shots and just starts walking into the crowd and starts doing.

[Dana Carvey]

Walking around.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, walking around the.

[David Spade]

That's funny.

[Robert Smigel]

Stands up and starts doing crowd work.

[David Spade]

But she's funny.

[Robert Smigel]

She's completely stiff, you know, and it's just. If that tie was any louder Molly Matlin could hear it.

[David Spade]

Looks like Joseph A Bank made it tonight.

[Dana Carvey]

What if Triumph was at the Met Gal?

[David Spade]

Yeah. What would he do? Crazy.

[Robert Smigel]

Actually, I've tried to. I've wanted to do the right part, but that's perfect. That's one of the few things I've. I still want to do as.

[David Spade]

Please don't let Triumph around Kim K.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, she lost, like, these personal relationships that I care about. Like, I would never touch her because Pete Davidson's a friend.

[David Spade]

Oh, friend of the show.

[Robert Smigel]

No, he's a great guy. I know him. And. But, like, Dana, this is something. Well, we never talked about the Carson thing, but this is another one.

[Dana Carvey]

That's all right.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't know if you want to

[Dana Carvey]

talk about this, but I'll talk about anything.

[Robert Smigel]

We're 30, or I'm 30 or 32 or whatever you were. And Dennis gets bounced from his syndicated show.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And I have this idea to do. Dennis is now doing a cooking show.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[David Spade]

Which we.

[Dana Carvey]

We called Dennis, and he said, go ahead. Right.

[Robert Smigel]

I did call him. Maybe you called him. I didn't call him.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I believe I called him. Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't think we. But that was, like, then, and I. And I thought in my head, I was like, this is my duty as a Saturday Night Live sketchwriter. I can't play favorites. You know, I, I. This is my privilege to.

[David Spade]

Duty comes first.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. That's how I. Seriously, I took it. Allegiance to the show, I would say by, like, the time I was 40, I was like, no, I would never do that again.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I don't think at that point there was any sort of idea that Dennis wasn't on his way with a career. Like, he'd done the Black and White special. He had the talk show. You know, all he did after that

[Robert Smigel]

was host an HBO show that got, like, 20.

[Dana Carvey]

Exactly. So to me. To me, I thought it was so funny. And the way you wrote it. Dennis's vernacular. Yeah. In a. In a daytime cooking show. I don't know if you could quote some of that.

[Robert Smigel]

Maybe it's. Maybe you're right. But I feel like I still wouldn't do it now. I wouldn't be able to. I'd be too nervous about whoever's feelings it was.

[David Spade]

Sure.

[Dana Carvey]

I understand that. I feel the same way. I, like, I kind of sometimes feel bad for Biden when I see him sort of lost or whatever. And so it's different doing it now,

[Robert Smigel]

because when you get older and life kind of kicks you in the nuts and you learn what pain is. And, yeah, you get, you know how

[David Spade]

careers are so hard and up and down. You're like, I'm going to probably hurt someone's career somehow accidentally.

[Robert Smigel]

You know who.

[David Spade]

Biden's hair looks like a spider web. Go ahead.

[Robert Smigel]

The one person who would always scold me when I was. Even when I was younger, and I guess it's because he was sensitive to all the bad reviews he was getting was Sandler. He was like. Like I was doing those cartoons and they were going really well.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

You know, and I would do a cartoon about, like, David Brenner or something.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Robert Smigel]

Being a guest on a talk show, and it was fun with real audio and. And I would use a real David Brenner story. But I would have him going on every talk show, and each host would get bored and press a trapdoor button and he would fall down and go, like, you know, so he starts on, like, the Tonight show, and then trapdoor goes down to Conan, and then it goes down to, like, Tom Snyder and then.

[David Spade]

Hilarious.

[Dana Carvey]

I remember that one. Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. And it was really funny. And everybody. I played it for Conan because Conan was in it and he was laughing really hard. And then I get a call from Sandler. You feel good about yourself, but you feel good about that. No guy that. What if that guy's home watching? You know, he's like, had a hard day. He's watching the show and he's like, yeah, what is this? Why? What did I do?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, why?

[David Spade]

Well, he did Brenner, didn't he? Sandler could do Brenner on the show.

[Robert Smigel]

He did a great David Brenner.

[Dana Carvey]

That's right.

[Robert Smigel]

But it wasn't nearly as mean as this cartoon.

[David Spade]

No, it wasn't mean. It wasn't.

[Dana Carvey]

Remember the one you did where you had. You had Stedman hiding from Oprah in the mansion?

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my God. That was. That was from the Comedy Central show. And it's interesting you bring that up, because that was a cartoon I wasn't going to do. It was one of those lines that I would draw for myself, which people are always shocked you had lines. But I, like, I didn't like to make fun of drug addiction. I always felt like when people are, you know, that desperate, it's not funny. You know, it's like, you know, everybody. It's easy to reduce somebody to a cartoon character, but that was one. And another one was women's looks. I really hated making fun of a woman for her looks because women are held up to these ridiculous standards, and it just felt shitty. And so this Oprah one was Andy Brechman's premise. And the premise was that Stedman, every time Oprah wants to have sex, Steadman has convinced Oprah that he's an international spy. And every time Oprah wants to have sex, Steadman pretends he's getting an alert and they have to go off. I'm not making it sound as funny as it.

[Dana Carvey]

No, no, I like it.

[Robert Smigel]

I broke the rule because it was just too funny. And it, it remains like one of the funniest cartoons I've ever been involved in. But it was Andy Breckman's idea. Also one of the nicest people I've ever worked with. Andy Brechman had this idea that I thought was too me.

[Jennifer]

Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?

[Robert Smigel]

Right? And the best part, they accept Discover.

[Jennifer]

Except Discover in a little place like this.

[David Spade]

I. I don't think so.

[Jennifer]

Jennifer.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh yeah, huh?

[David Spade]

Discover is accepted where I like to shop.

[Robert Smigel]

Come on, baby, get with the times.

[Jennifer]

Right. So we shouldn't get the parachute pants.

[David Spade]

These are making a comeback, I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Robert Smigel]

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[Jennifer]

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[David Spade]

Ask him about the bears. The bears. The big one. I love it.

[Dana Carvey]

I just want to say very quickly that I know that John McLaughlin, which you completely created fun. Loved, loved our sketch.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Regis loved it. Perot loved it. George Bush senior loved it.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

It was only sweet. Johnny Carson got a little tweaked and

[Robert Smigel]

I don't Carson, we should talk about this one because it was like so. Yes. So Rock comes on. I got. I'm sorry.

[Dana Carvey]

Rock comes on and plays Arsenio.

[Robert Smigel]

Rock comes on and plays Arsenio. And this was at this time when Johnny was getting sort of threatened by Arsenio's presence. Arsenio was white hot. That's a bad choice of words, I suppose. But Arsenio was like, please stand on fire. Every. Everybody was talking about him. And we did that thing of like. Now I understand that this, you know, that would over explaining thing. But in this case it was like, I understand you have a show, Dana, you should do it.

[Dana Carvey]

You remember I understand you have a show.

[Robert Smigel]

And. And it says here, he was like looking at his notes. It says here that your show is up against my show.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. And I said here, it says here I did not know that. And your ratings have actually gone up higher than mine.

[Robert Smigel]

Starting to decline.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[David Spade]

It's weird.

[Robert Smigel]

I did not know that. And now it says here, it says further that your show is considered hip and mine. I am starting to be considered out of touch.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Did you know that? Yes. A really sad. Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[David Spade]

But.

[Robert Smigel]

But the thing that Johnny got maddest at. Dana, do you remember this? It was the first guest. We had a throwaway first guest before we bring on Arsenio.

[Dana Carvey]

It was Susan. Shape of the Susan Day. Right.

[Robert Smigel]

It was Susan Day and I had written it for Sinead o', Connor, for Jan Hooks to play Sinead because she had already done it and it was hilarious and she's very serious and you know, you guys are just would be doing not a. Not a lot of hair on her head. That is quite a dome. You know, all that kind of stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

A little smooth. Smooth on the upper turf. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

Not a hairy woman, sir.

[Dana Carvey]

From ear to ear, not a lot going on.

[Robert Smigel]

Lauren was like, you know, she's done Sinead. She does a killer Susan Day, which she had done once on the show, and it was killer. So Lauren suggested. It wasn't like, it wasn't funny. He suggested, what if he has Susan Day on? But he keeps wanting to talk about the Partridge Family, and It had been

[Dana Carvey]

15 years since it gone off. Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes. And so that was how we wrote it. And then Johnny took it as like, are you seeing this, Ed? He really. He said this on the show. They're saying I'm senile. He literally thought we were now calling him senile, all because we had changed that opening.

[Dana Carvey]

That was the one that I thought was. Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

He said it on. He said it as Dana or.

[Robert Smigel]

No, no, no. Johnny said it on his own show. He started.

[David Spade]

Wow, wow.

[Robert Smigel]

Bitching about Saturday Night Live on his own show. And, Dana, I heard you say this to Regis, and it broke my heart because I had never heard this. You said to Regis in an interview, like, I don't know, five, six years ago, I saw you said that. You heard that Johnny said, when they start making fun of you, it's time to go away.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, he would say it. Yeah. Over in Burbank, just in the hallway, the big giant studio, and just yell it out. They're making fun of me now. It's time to go.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, that, that, that.

[Dana Carvey]

But what. What I realized, and I would take it for anyone in show business, that eventually you become a caricature of yourself. If you're a comedian, it doesn't matter. I don't want to name the person. You could see someone and kind of go, is that a celebrity impersonator or is that the real guy? So you do become a caricature of yourself. It's kind of flattering. But, you know, for Johnny, I couldn't get on the show after that.

[Robert Smigel]

I know nobody from SNL did for a year.

[Dana Carvey]

And he really took it, took it to heart and so heartbreaking for us.

[Robert Smigel]

But then. Yeah, then I think I also heard from you back then. So then we did the Carcino sketch, which was basically Johnny as trying to be like Arsenio, trying to be like Arsenio Hall. And it was a big hit sketch. He had the pointy hair and elongated fingers.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And he would, do you see this head? All you have to do is go, whoop, whoop, whoop. And the audience goes, whoop, whoop, whoop.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you know that a house is called a Crib Ed. Did you know that? I did not know that. Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

You know Rob Robert.

[David Spade]

I did Carson two months before he quit as Stand up.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, wow.

[David Spade]

And he came back to the back, and he goes, who hates Dana Carvey? I go, I do. And he goes, that's my boy.

[Robert Smigel]

Really?

[David Spade]

No, he. No, he didn't. He came back and said hi to me. But I remember it was very hard to get on the show. I did do it two months before he got off. And he did come back. But he came back, and you were

[Dana Carvey]

on Saturday Night Live. You broke the code.

[Robert Smigel]

No, I think I was.

[David Spade]

I on.

[Dana Carvey]

He went off in 93. I believe.

[Robert Smigel]

You were absolutely on the show. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[David Spade]

For sure.

[Robert Smigel]

But let me just. Just say this real quick. Carvey told me that. That he liked the Carcino sketch.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Robert Smigel]

He said, what do you say? It makes fun of.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, they're making fun of our senior as much as they're making fun of me. I mean, that. That's funny stuff, you know, that kind of thing.

[Robert Smigel]

So. So I remember feeling a lot better about. And then. And then he did start letting people on the show again.

[David Spade]

No, I mean, I was saying I got on somehow, and I don't know, just did my crummy act and got out of there. But.

[Robert Smigel]

Stop it.

[David Spade]

He did. He waved me over Smikes, and I left.

[Robert Smigel]

I didn't go, you gave him the finger?

[David Spade]

Well, the guy backstage, McCauley, said, he goes, get on there. Hit your mark and get off. And I go, what if Johnny waves you over? And he goes. He won't. Just go do it. And I go, oh, my God. So I went out and turned and left, and he goes, there he is. And did the little double tap wink. He goes, martin Short was with him. And he goes, have him come over. And he goes, I'm trying to, but he won't look at me. And he goes. He's too nervous. All right. There he goes, all right. Well, that was David Spade.

[Robert Smigel]

He said that on the air?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

That's amazing.

[David Spade]

And then he came backstage.

[Robert Smigel]

Where were you? And I was. Where the fuck were. They locked me there with egg.

[David Spade]

I had my shirt off.

[Robert Smigel]

You made a fucking fool.

[David Spade]

Yeah. And it was a bo. Fucking torrential storm back in my room because I was so scared. I have my shirt off, and I have Pepto Bismol. And they knock, and I open, and it's.

[Dana Carvey]

And it's.

[David Spade]

It's Ed, I think, Doc and Johnny. And he goes.

[Robert Smigel]

All three of them.

[David Spade]

I didn't. Yeah. He goes. I didn't. He goes, I didn't get a chance to say good job. I wanted. I come over and nice job. And I go, oh, I didn't even see you, or whatever. And he goes, pepto Bismol. I'm trying to quit the stuff myself. And then he walked away. Isn't that great?

[Robert Smigel]

That's a fantastic story.

[David Spade]

He did a bit.

[Robert Smigel]

He did a bit. But in reality, he was. He was broken inside. And he. Around. He went around the office and said, when they start not. Not coming over to the couch.

[David Spade]

Who put you up to this? Dana Carvey. That.

[Robert Smigel]

So it's you, Spade.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

You're the one who pushed him out.

[Dana Carvey]

Let's go. Let's go. Ed. Let's go back and find him, Doc. Come on, let's go.

[David Spade]

I'll hit him high, you hit him low.

[Dana Carvey]

Hit him low.

[David Spade]

Well, talk about McLaughlin too, because that was a great McLaughlin group.

[Robert Smigel]

John McLaughlin ran a roundtable.

[David Spade]

Well, we gotta have everyone know. You did McLaughlin. You did the Bears so many. You did Clucky fucking Gaga. Gaga Gooey.

[Robert Smigel]

Hey, can you help me with the Clucky or. Schmidt's gay. You helped me with one of those two.

[David Spade]

I was almost in Schmidt's gay for a rough draft. And then it went to Sandler and

[Robert Smigel]

Farley went to Far. That was. That was Downey's idea. And it was a brilliant call to take the two youngest guys in the cast and make them the guys. That was. That was.

[David Spade]

What was I. Was I older than them?

[Robert Smigel]

I originally. I had it as Dana and Kevin because I thought, this is going to be the first sketch of the year and Dana and Kevin are the guys. And then. I don't remember a draft with you. No.

[David Spade]

Someone maybe Shoemaker, someone said, I think you're in.

[Dana Carvey]

Remind me what this sketch is. Oh, oh, Schmidt's gay. That was a. Became a film, didn't it?

[David Spade]

That was a big one. Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Ambiguously gay duo.

[David Spade]

No, it was a commercial parody.

[Dana Carvey]

Sandler and Farley did something by a pool.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, it was a parody of all those.

[Dana Carvey]

So that.

[Robert Smigel]

That was, you know, sexist beer commercials. It's one of the ones I'm most proud of.

[Dana Carvey]

Hysterical. But that ended up being similar.

[Robert Smigel]

The gay people weren't, like, portrayed in a kind of, like, mocking way.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Robert Smigel]

The whole joke was turning the tables on these objectifying. These ridiculous commercials that associate beer with objectifying women. And it just got this huge. It got one of the biggest responses.

[David Spade]

So great. It was Van Halen song in it.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, Farley and Sandler doing a conga line. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, but, but Spade, I thought you either helped me with that or clucking chicken, which is my personal favorite.

[David Spade]

Oh, clucking chicken. I don't know, I mean, sometimes I just get in there and try to help anywhere.

[Robert Smigel]

I think you threw me some time jokes in there.

[David Spade]

Maybe I threw you Gaga.

[Robert Smigel]

Gaga Gooey. That sounded like me.

[David Spade]

Oh, I love Sandler's voice. And that was so funny. That was a cartoon that was half cartoon commercial parody.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, cartoon. Yeah, cartoon supreme. That's how I met the guy JJ Settlemeyer, who ended up doing the first few years TV funhouse cartoons.

[David Spade]

Five houses. Welcome back to my show. But you put Lauren's voice in there. To anyone say anything, that's maybe the

[Robert Smigel]

hardest I've ever laughed in my life because I became a 10 year old again, like the way I would when I was 10, I would draw cartoons of my teachers, that kind of thing.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And when a teacher would see, I would like giggle, like. And I remember the first time you saw the press rehearsal that the ambiguously gay duo ran and. And then this little cartoon Lauren comes out and chases the dog. Lego my show. Lego my show. And I'm watching Lauren watch it.

[David Spade]

Oh my God.

[Robert Smigel]

And I'm just in tears. I was like, you know, Lauren would call it. You put a beanie on the boss.

[Dana Carvey]

What is that? It's just made fun of the boss or a beanie on the boss.

[Robert Smigel]

It's like reducing the boss to a, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Lower status. It's like, you know, Lauren had a term for every comedy move in the world. I've seen every sketch four times, you know, so it's hard for me. Everything you've anyone's written, I've seen a version of it.

[Dana Carvey]

One of my favorite recent Lauren ones within the last five years around funny people, people who do comedy. There's only 900 of us on the planet.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, really?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it's a specific number, like. Well, maybe that's true. I don't.

[David Spade]

We did run some numbers.

[Robert Smigel]

898.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. If you don't count Steve and Marty.

[Robert Smigel]

Steve counts for three.

[Dana Carvey]

Marty, he counts for a hundred.

[David Spade]

I think Robert really so good. Didn't we ask William Shatner if he was okay with that sketch he wrote? I think he was right.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh yeah. I pitched it to him and he like Trekkie sketch.

[David Spade]

Yeah. That was a big famous sketch that you wrote.

[Dana Carvey]

That was a sketch still resonates all the time.

[David Spade]

That's a big, big One.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, I have an affinity for nerds because I was an SNL nerd. I was no bigger nerd as anybody. I was completely in awe of the show when I got there. I, like, knew who Edie Baskin and Leo Yoshimura. Like, I memorized the.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

So, yeah, like, you know, a lot of my most famous stuff has to do with, like, Triumph. And the Star wars line is one of my happiest memories because I was, like, making fun of them, but I felt an affinity toward them at the same time. The nerds waiting online for Star wars and Triumphs, they were all, like. They all took it so well. They were all just comedy fans. Yeah. It was like. When it was like, have you guys. Did you guys. I'm sure you spayed a spat. You both probably got to meet Don Rickles, right?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I did. Yep.

[Robert Smigel]

Did he insult you when he met you the first time?

[Dana Carvey]

Do an impression of a gorilla, is what he said to me.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, really?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

You know, Smygs, on one time, Chris Farley took his mom to see him on one of the breaks on the weeks off, and he goes. And he goes. I go, what happened? He goes, we sat right in the front row. And he goes. Rickles comes over to him in the middle and goes, what's your name, Tiny? And he goes. He goes, my name's Chris.

[Dana Carvey]

And he goes, how much you weigh, Chris? And he goes, about 260.

[David Spade]

He goes, the left side of your ass, maybe.

[Dana Carvey]

And then he went to the next table.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Then he knew that it was Chris, right?

[David Spade]

I don't know. I don't know. It's just all funny.

[Robert Smigel]

Just like, I'm just gonna treat him like anybody else.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

I just go.

[David Spade]

Says a fat guy in the front, sir. Maybe go for him.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, he has a little bug in his ear. Yeah. When he got older. Fat guy. 3. 3.

[David Spade]

Lady wearing a flower box hat.

[Robert Smigel]

Take four steps to the right.

[David Spade]

Closer. That's him. That's him.

[Dana Carvey]

Get him. I took it as a badge of honor. I love being ripped by.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. When. When I met him, I was a producer at the Conan show, I think. Or no, I was doing Triumph, I think. And I did it for. For Rickles, but. But I met him first. They introduced me because they wanted to make it okay that it. You know, make sure he would be cool with it. And he sees me and he just says, hello, Rabbi. Which I later heard was a movie had for a lot of Semitic. Like. Jon Stewart told me once that that was the first thing he said to Jon Stewart.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he had his just a good,

[David Spade]

safe, offensive across the board thing to say.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, you know, we've all got our

[Dana Carvey]

standard zingers going full, full circle toward the end.

[Robert Smigel]

Triumph. Never said the buzz around flies around my ass before. You're sadly right.

[Dana Carvey]

There's only so many mathematical ways to get at that ass joke. Okay, they can be flying around, but Regis told me once, this was when. When Rickles was still on the road. You know, honest to God, some nights you don't know if he's gonna make it. They give him two eyeballs. He's rubbing his knees, honest to God, I don't know. And they play the music. It goes out, and he kills them for an hour, kid. Then he lies down.

[David Spade]

I like, honest to God,

[Dana Carvey]

who's better than Robert Smiggle? Honest to God, this guy is everywhere. I mean, you know, it really is.

[Robert Smigel]

He was really nice to me, too. You know, one time. This is insane. I had an idea for a sitcom, and it's one of the happiest half hours of my whole life. I got to sit in the hotel room and pitch Larry King and Regis Philbin a sitcom where they played an old gay couple. And they took it dead serious, like, this is a great idea. And they had already, like, consulted Rickles about it. And Larry King's like, rickles says, we can do it, but we can't be too swishy.

[David Spade]

Swish.

[Robert Smigel]

And, you know, we would just talk about it. And Regis. The funniest was Regis. He was like, so, Bob, again, I apologize for my inferior Regis, but it's like, just go. So if we do this, you know, I know there's going to be a script, but not. Not really, right? I mean, you know, we can get out there and Larry and I can just go off, right? Just play off each other, right? Well, there's a story to the. You know, it's a sitcom. It's gotta have. Yeah, but Bob. I mean.

[David Spade]

Yeah, Bob.

[Robert Smigel]

Learning lines and. Yeah, I mean, we have a natural thing. Rickles says we just have to look natural. I'm like, when did Rickles become the oracle of sick?

[Dana Carvey]

Run Everything by Rickles.

[Robert Smigel]

Mr. CPO Sharkey.

[Dana Carvey]

CPO Sharkey, 1975. Yeah. If you have a copy of that

[David Spade]

treatment, can you send it to me and Dana?

[Robert Smigel]

I don't think I ever bothered to write it. Somehow. They said yes to just meeting with me for a half an hour. One.

[David Spade]

One other thing that Smigel has. It's one of the funniest titles is the Autism Benefit the Night of Too many stars.

[Robert Smigel]

It's the funniest thing both of you have done. Of course both of you have done it. You. You've done it a couple times. Dana, you did the first one, and it was one of the greatest bits that it's ever been on that we've done like seven.

[David Spade]

What was it?

[Robert Smigel]

Well, Hal Wilner, rest his soul.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Robert Smigel]

Music was an incredibly great guy who was the music supervisor or supervisor at Saturday Night live.

[David Spade]

And for 200 years.

[Robert Smigel]

For 200 years, he missed the first 300. And he. He would help me book. He knew everybody in music.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And he would help me book the show with, you know, he. We had a booker who would be paid, and then Hal for free would get me. You know, he got me Elvis Costello once. He got me Sting. And this particular bit, he got me Lou Reed. And it was like a surprise appearance. The people in Roseland, remember we did this in Roseland and they.

[Dana Carvey]

Yep, crazy.

[Robert Smigel]

And Lou Reed comes out and it's like Jimmy Fallon saying Lou Reed. And he's gonna have an all star band. And then one by one, he introduces the all star band. And it's all comedians. It's on the drums, Dana Carvey. On the guitar, Conan o'. Brien.

[Dana Carvey]

I think Sandler was there, too.

[Robert Smigel]

Jack Black, Adam Sandler and Lou Reed played it perfectly like, this is the all star band. And. And then they did this incredibly funny, somewhat disrespectful, but affectionate version of Walk on the Wild side.

[David Spade]

I love it.

[Robert Smigel]

And it's on YouTube. And Sandler literally is right in his face going,

[Dana Carvey]

Lou Reed got mad at me. It was very awkward. I still remember it. Yeah. After the rehearsal, I didn't really have a monitor. I could hear, he's going to take a walk on the wild side. So he very seriously, as everyone scattered, just walked over to me and just was intense. Lou Reed and goes, don't do that. Don't do that.

[Robert Smigel]

Don't do what?

[Dana Carvey]

Whatever. He thought I was doing the drums. I go, I'm a comedian and I can't hear myself. Don't play like that. You know, he just got very serious. Maybe it was nerves. But then we came out later, he was. Was totally affable.

[Robert Smigel]

He was probably just. That was the only thing he probably cared about was that it sounded good.

[Dana Carvey]

Right. And I wanted. I wanted. I wanted to play well. I just thought my monitor and then.

[Robert Smigel]

And you did. You did it sounds amazing.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, that's good. I guess I got it on the air show. We just had a brief rehearsal.

[Robert Smigel]

Absolutely.

[Dana Carvey]

It Was kind of fun.

[Robert Smigel]

Incredible. Adam's a great guitarist and Conan's a good guitarist, and. And Jack Blackson. I mean, these are, like, all the most musical. They just happen to all be there.

[Dana Carvey]

And that song is brilliant, but it is very, very austere and very simple, which is, you know, take a walk. Don't. You know, it's like, it was perfect

[Robert Smigel]

and everybody got a turn. You didn't, because you were the drummer. But all. Every. All these other guys did solos in their different ways.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[David Spade]

You know, I learned a few things from Smigel today. I learned that Franken and Davis hired him.

[Robert Smigel]

Rankin and Davis hired me. That's correct.

[David Spade]

His dad invented Crest white strips.

[Robert Smigel]

No, that's not true.

[David Spade]

Okay. I invented. I. I heard that he's bonding.

[Robert Smigel]

He. He was the. He developed the whole tooth bonding technique. Right?

[David Spade]

And I. And Lou Reed hates Dana Carvey.

[Robert Smigel]

These are the only reason another one

[Dana Carvey]

of my impressions has gone to the stars. I have inside insight onto. This involves you. Someone told me today. So Michael Gordon wants to go, right, for the. The Conan show. He talks to Bob. Bob Odenkirk, and Bob Odenkirk said, wait. Wait till we get Smigel as the head writer. And then somehow you got. You became the head writer. And then.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, you're talking about the original Conan show. I thought you meant Michael Gordon wants to write for the new.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, sorry. This is always back in time when they.

[Robert Smigel]

But he said Michael Gordon knew Bob Odenkirk.

[Dana Carvey]

I think so. Or at least casually. Hey.

[David Spade]

Oh, Dana.

[Dana Carvey]

So good.

[David Spade]

Funny. Oh, my God, that's so funny. Oh, my God. No, you're not doing that, are you? No. Was he mad about Chippendales? Because there's a rumor down. He said I was really mad about it, and I wasn't.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, that was something Downey read online. He read online that you. It was the most ridiculous lie imaginable that you, like, marched into Lauren's office.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

You were like. You'd been there for like, four weeks.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I go. And you know what Marcy would have

[Robert Smigel]

tackled the last per. You could have been there for five years. You never would have pounded on Lauren's door.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that was clearly made up. But there's a car get out around. Was that exploitive of Chris or not? People have their difference opinions. When he did the Chippendale sketch with his shirt off.

[Robert Smigel]

That. I thought the opposite, which was. I mean, I just have an inherent. I thought the people were not laughing at Chris, and I didn't see it that way. I Thought because there have been a million fat comedians who, you know, exploit their bodies in some way or another playoff being sure.

[Dana Carvey]

Heavy Jackie Gleason.

[Robert Smigel]

The thing that I saw that night was an audience fall in love with Chris because he was so committed and he was such a good dancer.

[David Spade]

He's a great.

[Robert Smigel]

And he wasn't acting like he wasn't remotely ashamed of his body. You know, that whether that's, you know, obviously not necessarily the truth, but that's what he projected. And to me, it was like, if anything, they didn't use the word empowering back then, but to me, that's how it felt to me. Like, you know, the way somebody like Bridget Everett, where the person is, you know, completely unselfconscious about their body. At least it played that way to me. But, you know, I would say this. I would say if you saw that in Chris, if you felt that that was happening to Chris, then maybe you should have talked to Chris about it and made sure it was cool with Chris instead of just saying, tut, tut.

[Dana Carvey]

I didn't know a thing. I just saw a young cast member.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

I barely knew. I did not look. There's different levels. This was young Chris. I saw a guy very athletic. I think anyone neck next to Patrick Swayze would look kind of chubby. And so Chris was moving really like a chubby guy. Not like a next level.

[David Spade]

He was not even that big back then.

[Dana Carvey]

No. And I saw a guy killing with physical comedy. But if he was sad about it inside, I was clueless to it.

[Robert Smigel]

I was clueless, too, if he was. But, I mean, he. When I saw him at Second City that summer, he was another person I had the privilege of seeing audition back then. And he. What struck me about him at Second City was how graceful he was. Like, he was the opposite athlete who got.

[Dana Carvey]

Who gained some weight. Is. He was an athlete.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was incredibly graceful. And that's what separated him besides, you know, his incredible characterizations. Like. But, you know, so to me, that's. The sketch was the only thing it was exploiting was his incredible. Was what made him special.

[Dana Carvey]

I would go by David's athleticism only because David was probably the closest to.

[David Spade]

I don't remember any problems.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't think David was the closest back then, though.

[Dana Carvey]

Maybe not back then, but after they did their movies and stuff. Well, right up there. Right.

[Robert Smigel]

That's different. By then, Chris started to get like. Like, you know, in the motivational speaker sketch, I remember adding. I had one contribution to that sketch because Bob was no longer there, oddly enough.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Bob wrote the entire sketch. And Spade, you know, this. I. I added just that little part at the end where he's like, matt's gonna shade you. You're here. Matt's here. You're. You know that thing.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that's great.

[Robert Smigel]

And he knocks over the coffee table.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And that was like. I just felt it needed, like, a physical topper at the end.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

So we put it in and it worked. And then I feel, though, that it did lead to, like, this slippery slope of Farley knocking things.

[David Spade]

Oh, he's going through walls to the ceiling.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

It started. It started something that I did not intend to happen.

[David Spade]

Well, they're kind of waiting for it after that. Every sketch, they're like, what's he gonna hit? What's he gonna fall through?

[Robert Smigel]

Well, certainly with the Matt Foley ones. Yeah. But it started happening in other sketches, too.

[David Spade]

He just walks in down. That's all you got. Farrell, I would call.

[Robert Smigel]

Then we started getting cynical about it. Like Chris, you know, we would just come up with different names.

[David Spade]

That Nancy Kerrigan sketch, he was a great ice skater, too.

[Dana Carvey]

That's true. There you go. Yeah, he could ice skate as well. Yeah.

[David Spade]

So that canceled out Chippendale, so we're even.

[Robert Smigel]

I just, you know, when people say it's just very glib to, like, you know, that sketch set him off, that's. It's just. So I just find that irresponsible, too.

[David Spade]

Well, I never heard him complain about it in the years to come, so I think he was just like, if you're a young cast member and that, and you get a sketch that's a 10 out of 10, and he took it and it blew him up. I don't think he ever looked back and said. But I felt like no.

[Robert Smigel]

So many other things got.

[Dana Carvey]

Did he ever take his shirt off again on the show? I mean, he. He fell around and stuff and walked through walls, but I don't remember.

[Robert Smigel]

I'm sure he did.

[Dana Carvey]

It didn't become a thing. Let's get Chris's shirt off. No, that's good, too.

[Robert Smigel]

I mean, there was a lot of restraint until, like, the. Later, I think it was. Wasn't until his, like, third or fourth year, it was like people were running out of. Of what to do with them, and. And it became, like, a shorthand kind of cheap move to have Farley break something, you know? But he was like, oh, my God, Spade. Do you remember his acting in that Tom Schiller?

[David Spade]

Oh, the coffee one.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. Just the Way his face changes when he. When he hears that they've switched Folgers.

[David Spade]

It was a great idea. How many takes does he get to trash the whole set?

[Robert Smigel]

I know. That was all Tom Schiller.

[David Spade]

The Schiller vision of the Foliars commercial was a real hit, but it's kind of an. A gem that not everyone saw.

[Robert Smigel]

I put it in the Best of. Because of that. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Great one.

[Robert Smigel]

So that people would see it because it was. It was one of his greatest acting jobs ever.

[David Spade]

Yeah. They could look it up. All right, let's. What. Anything else for this guy, Dave? Dana?

[Dana Carvey]

Let's see.

[Robert Smigel]

It's for this guy.

[Dana Carvey]

Your Social Security number. Just for. This is just Housekeeping. Security number.

[David Spade]

Stay on and do the paperwork. We're gonna jump off.

[Dana Carvey]

But

[David Spade]

no, that's it.

[Dana Carvey]

You did.

[David Spade]

We covered literally everything you've ever done.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, we did a lot of snl, but obviously Robert and I did the Dana Carvey show and he.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my God.

[Dana Carvey]

Ambiguously.

[Robert Smigel]

So funny that we didn't talk about the Dana Carvey Show.

[Dana Carvey]

It's all right. It's a really. We're Saturday Night Live focus. But that was.

[Robert Smigel]

You'll do a whole podcast about that, right?

[David Spade]

We have a Hotel Transylvania podcast after this, if you want to.

[Robert Smigel]

That's right. That's what I'm waiting for.

[David Spade]

You want to stay on you. You were Zoho.

[Robert Smigel]

Just a Hotel Transylvania 2 podcast.

[Dana Carvey]

He did the clutch cargo characters on Conan, which I loved. You know, just the lips and the R. Yeah. Talk about exaggerating.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my God. We're. We didn't talk about the Hans and Franz movie.

[Dana Carvey]

That Hans and Fr.

[Robert Smigel]

This is the part of the show where we just talk about how much better the show could have been. Well, Hans and Franz movie. Oh, what if we have.

[David Spade]

Have you back? That's.

[Dana Carvey]

We saw. I wrote all your stuff out today and I. I knew there was no way this was going to fit into an hour. And so.

[Robert Smigel]

I know. I just. More than anything, I wish I talked about that.

[Dana Carvey]

Which one?

[Robert Smigel]

The Hans and frs movie.

[Dana Carvey]

Because.

[Robert Smigel]

Because it's so funny and.

[Dana Carvey]

What is it? Hysterical movie.

[David Spade]

Dana has talked about it on here because it was the whole way it got put together and then it didn't work out. But there was so many Hans and Franz.

[Dana Carvey]

The girly man dilemma. But it was not homophobic. It was just girly are just men without big muscles like them, you know?

[Robert Smigel]

Do you remember the part? Okay, well, this is gonna. We can't. I was going to talk about the Siskel and Ebert Part was one of my favorite.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that was the whole story.

[David Spade]

You have 12 seconds.

[Dana Carvey]

Hans and Franz were doing their movie and they're running around somewhere and they go into a room and Siskel and

[Robert Smigel]

Ever are watching movie with. I mean, they're not. They're just doing the movie. They're in the movie.

[Dana Carvey]

They're in the movie.

[Robert Smigel]

They're doing a cross country trip to Los Angeles because they want to be in the movies and be with Arnold.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And then they're riding a bicycle across country and then at one point, they happen upon a big. A big edifice and they just walk in. And Siskel and Ebert, the most famous critics at the time, Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert, are sitting in the theater and it's just like, how's the movie? You like? It's pretty good so far. They're watching the movie, lots of action and collapse in this dark room, watching the exact movie that's taking place.

[Dana Carvey]

So on the screen is them, us talking to them.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, it's you talking to them. They're like in their movie seats and

[Dana Carvey]

watching on the screen is us talking.

[Robert Smigel]

You see them watching the movie.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[Robert Smigel]

But it's like, like four seconds.

[Dana Carvey]

Four seconds. Fine. Got it.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, that kind of thing.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

And then eventually they get kidnapped because they're girly men.

[Dana Carvey]

Right?

[Robert Smigel]

Like, you go to check in on them later and they're gone because the. The evil villain has kidnapped. He's like, remember Sonny Bono disappears and.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[Robert Smigel]

I can't remember who. Who famous girly man.

[Dana Carvey]

The bad guy had a big button that said hurt the weather. And then we cut this. Look out his window, go, hey, the weather seems hood somehow, you know?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, it was. It was gonna be Dolph Lundgren and he had like this kind of like final solution villain kind of thing where I am going to eliminate all the girly man. And so. And then he turned to the camera and say, and I'm going to hurt the environment.

[Dana Carvey]

And the button that said hurt the environment. That's right.

[Robert Smigel]

Because we were obsessed. My. I desperately wanted to do like, Mike Myers was my hero later because he, with Dr. Evil, created a character that. Remember all these 80s comedies? The villain, you always had to, like, take it seriously for, like.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[Robert Smigel]

Rather than whether it was Max Foncito or in Strange Brew or like there, you always had to have these obligatory villains. And so we were trying to make fun of that and have the villain be as funny as the. And Mike. And then Mike ended up doing perfect.

[Dana Carvey]

Good for Mike.

[Robert Smigel]

Good for Mike.

[David Spade]

All right.

[Dana Carvey]

This has been Robert Smigel, one of the. I would say he's the greatest sketch writer of his generation. You. You. He's in the. He's in the discussion. I put him at the top, but everyone can have their opinion.

[Robert Smigel]

Jack. Andy was the guy that I.

[Dana Carvey]

Different. Different lane, though. I put him in a different lane,

[Robert Smigel]

but yeah, it's a different lane. But here's what I'll say about Jack. That was why all the writers. I would say if you pulled at least the writers of that era, yeah, they would have gone with Jack. And it's because someone like me wrote a lot of. I'm very proud of a lot of things I wrote, but I feel like, you know, there are ideas that only I could have thought of, but there are other ones that I think other people could have. And where Jack, like, nobody else could have thought of almost any of the sketches. Jack Handy.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Any read through, you'd be like, oh, my God, this is Jack Handy. Within three, like, lines, you're like, everyone looks exactly. He's over there smiling.

[Robert Smigel]

People act like he was just the Act 7 guy. Like, the 5 to 11 guy was huge. Was the biggest character on the show for a couple years.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Like, literally the biggest character on the show was a cat puppet.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Look out. And we all crash.

[Robert Smigel]

Frozen caveman, lawyer.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Would always. They would get no laughs practically, but everybody from Lauren on down was in awe of that brilliant sketch. And so it was always. It always made the show. It was never at the end of the show because we were all collectively just so proud to put it on there.

[Dana Carvey]

I am a simple unfrozen caveman or something.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't know. That was just a perfect use.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Did that. Perfect.

[David Spade]

I don't know what's going on.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it's almost like simple Caveman.

[David Spade]

I think 60 million in punitive damages feels about right.

[Dana Carvey]

So we all love Jack.

[David Spade]

Yes. Okay. Thanks, Robert.

[Dana Carvey]

Thanks, Robert.

[Robert Smigel]

Thanks, guys.

[Dana Carvey]

Loved it.

[David Spade]

Hey, guys. If you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, Give us review 5 star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

[Dana Carvey]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[David Spade]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

[Dana Carvey]

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by

[David Spade]

Phil Sweetek, booking by Cultivated Entertainment Special

[Dana Carvey]

thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[David Spade]

Reach out with us. Any questions be asked and answered on the show? You can email [e-mail] that's a U-A C-Y dot com.