Clearing Out Your Space and Schedule (Part 1 of 2)

Summary

Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Episode Summary: Clearing Out Your Space and Schedule (Part 1 of 2)

Air date: January 7, 2026
Host: Jim Daly and John Fuller
Guest: Courtney Ellis, author of Uncluttered: Free Your Space, Free Your Schedule, Free Your Soul

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the struggles and spiritual significance of decluttering our homes, schedules, and digital lives, featuring author and pastor Courtney Ellis. Drawing on her personal journey and Christian principles, Courtney shares practical steps and heartfelt stories about making space for what matters most—especially our relationship with God and our families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Clutter—Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual

00:31–04:57

• Hosts and listeners share relatable examples of clutter: social media overuse, messy rooms, overflowing car trash, and disorganized kitchens.
• Jim Daly reflects on laundry piles and acknowledges how “clutter” can be a metaphor for deeper issues.
• Courtney Ellis: Clutter accumulates gradually—"one pair of shoes at a time, one book at a time, one toy at a time" (03:43). She emphasizes the biblical call to “store up your treasures in heaven,” explaining how material possessions can distract us from God’s purposes.

Notable Quote

“Our possessions, little by little…can begin to take over. The more stuff we have, the more time we have to devote to caring for that stuff…And that takes away from time we could spend in a hundred other God ordained ways.”
—Courtney Ellis (03:43)

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2. Personal Journey: From Overwhelmed to Free

05:20–07:18

• Courtney recounts moving from a big farmhouse to a small California condo, bringing too much stuff and feeling emotionally and physically suffocated.
• Panic attacks prompted her to recognize the need to address both “overstuffed stuff” and her “overstuffed schedule”.
• The first step: Stop acquiring—and “stop putting things on the calendar that weren’t absolutely essential” (06:36).

Notable Quote

“I just feel like it’s too much. And he [my husband] said, ‘What is too much?’ I said, ‘All of it. All of it is too much.’ The schedule, the amount that we’ve crammed into our life.”
—Courtney Ellis (06:27)

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3. Practical Steps for Family Decluttering

07:18–10:16

• Decluttering with family, especially kids, can be tough: "You can't really go in and declutter your kids' rooms without their permission or that will be really rough" (07:18).
• Start with your own belongings and model generosity—give away toys to children in need, but have kids choose what to give.
• Decluttering is often more emotional than logical: every possession is tied to memories.
• The “giant table story”—letting go of a childhood table and seeing it bless another family (09:06–10:06).

Notable Quote

“It’s not even that it’s about me letting go of things. It’s about who else might be blessed by these I’ve been clinging to that don’t serve me.”
—Courtney Ellis (10:08)

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4. The Spiritual and Emotional Drivers of Clutter

10:16–11:49

• Shopping and busyness can be ways people “medicate”—buying bargains or piling on activities for a sense of worth.
• Acknowledge and respect differences within a marriage: the “saver” and the “tosser” need to cooperate and compromise.

Notable Quote

“People medicate by shopping. But they also medicate by being busy. And those are two sides of the same [coin].”
—Courtney Ellis (10:57)

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5. Technology as a Source of Clutter

13:28–17:48

• The rise of “digital clutter”: parents distracted by phones, children competing for attention.
• Courtney’s family solutions: “lockbox” for phones at dinner and bedtime, digital sabbath, and periodic breaks from social media.
• Emphasizes using technology as a tool rather than letting it control us.
• The importance of boredom and quiet for spiritual and creative health: “One of the healthiest things for the human brain is boredom and silence… But now we have waterproof phones. You could bring your phone in the shower!” (17:06-17:24)

Notable Moment

Courtney’s admission:

“There are thousands and thousands of engineers behind this screen that get paid if I click, if I scroll. Like, it’s not a fair fight.” (15:07)

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6. The Overloaded Schedule and Sabbath

17:48–19:32

• Many wear “busy” as a badge of honor—a “humble brag.”
• Most overloaded schedules are self-inflicted: “You’re the boss…Why didn’t you say no?” (17:48)
• The gift of Sabbath: Rest is commanded, even with things left undone. Sabbath is for “rest, worship, pray, play.”

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7. Learning to Say No—Stories and Scriptural Wisdom

19:37–22:39

• The Parakeet Story—saying “no” to taking a class pet home right before childbirth.
  • Wisdom in declining even good invitations for a higher purpose.
  • Sometimes “no” is for now—not forever.
  • Result: They cared for the parakeet later, then unexpectedly hosted it during the pandemic for 7 months!
• Jesus modeled boundaries—He knew His mission and pulled away to pray, showing busyness isn’t godliness.

Notable Quote

“Busyness helps us feel important…But the truth is that busyness often separates us from our neighbor. It separates us from God. It can separate us from our own spiritual need, our own spiritual hunger...” —Courtney Ellis (23:09)

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8. Family Mission and Purpose

24:10–26:21

• Courtney and her husband’s premarital counselors challenged them: “How will you serve God better together than separately?”
• Their family’s mission: “provide opportunities for hospitality and respite and discipleship... Rest for the weary and meal for the hungry.”
• Clarity of mission makes it easier to set boundaries and say no.

Notable Moment

[Premarital counseling story; at 25:08]
“If you do not have an answer to this, we will not marry you… if you’re not going to serve God better together than separately, then God may not be calling you to marriage at this time.”
—Courtney Ellis (quoting her counselors)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:31 | Opening thoughts on clutter | | 03:43 | Spiritual implications of possessions | | 05:35 | Panic attacks and the impact of “too much” stuff | | 07:18 | Steps to begin decluttering as a family | | 08:56 | Emotional attachment—letting go of family heirlooms | | 10:16 | How “bargain hunting” and busyness function like medication | | 13:28 | Digital clutter and parenting challenges | | 15:54 | Practical tools for limiting digital distraction | | 17:06 | The loss of downtime—why boredom is spiritually healthy | | 17:48 | Overloaded schedules and the importance of Sabbath | | 19:49 | The parakeet story—learning to say no | | 22:39 | Jesus’ example: busyness ≠ godliness | | 24:56 | Premarital counseling and crafting a family mission |

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Courtney Ellis (03:43):
  “Our possessions, little by little, it’s always incrementally ... the more stuff we have, the more time we have to devote to caring for that stuff ... And that takes away from time we could spend in a hundred other God ordained ways.”
• Jim Daly (06:03):
  “A lot of people might ... discount that I can feel like I’m not breathing, but I don’t necessarily know why. And to connect that to your overstressed schedule, your clutter, all that. How did you make that connection?”
• Courtney Ellis (10:08):
  “It’s not even that it’s about me letting go of things. It’s about who else might be blessed by these I’ve been clinging to that don’t serve me.”
• John Fuller (17:48):
  “I think many of us, if I could say it, we wear it [busyness] as a badge of honor... It’s a humble brag. Aren’t I important?”
• Courtney Ellis (23:09):
  “Busyness helps us feel important...But the truth is that busyness often separates us from our neighbor. It separates us from God. It can separate us from our own spiritual need, our own spiritual hunger.”

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Tone & Style

The conversation is lighthearted and relatable, full of gentle humor and personal anecdotes, yet it remains deeply practical and grounded in Christian teaching. Both hosts and Courtney are transparent about their own struggles, laugh at their mistakes, and offer grace-filled encouragement.

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Conclusion

Takeaways:
Decluttering—be it your home, schedule, or digital life—isn’t merely a housekeeping activity; it’s an invitation to reorient your heart, invite God into your priorities, and build intentional space for what truly matters. Courtney’s biblical insights, candid stories, and family-tested strategies offer encouragement for anyone feeling overwhelmed by life’s excess.

Look ahead:
Part 2 will continue with practical advice and explore more topics from Courtney’s book, “Uncluttered: Free Your Space, Free Your Schedule, Free Your Soul.”

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Transcript

[Dave Stone]

Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally. So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts.

[Courtney Ellis]

I would say the clutter in my life is probably social media. That can just be so addicting to just continuously mindlessly scrolling either laundry that's.

[John Fuller]

Not folded or all the things that I need to do that come into my head before I go to sleep.

[Courtney Ellis]

For me, clutter is whenever my room is super messy and I get a lot of trash left in my car, and I begin to feel like my life's cluttered. So I have to clean out my car and clean my whole entire room and pick up every single piece of laundry. Well, I have too many pots in my kitchen, so we had to go and buy a new shelf.

[Jim Daly]

Well, I wonder if you can relate your schedule, your home, your job, even your car. There's just way too much stuff, and it can feel overwhelming. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we'll help you purge, downsize, and simplify. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

[John Fuller]

John, I'm already smiling because everybody knows how much I love this topic when it comes to my garage.

[Jim Daly]

So I'm proud to say, perennial topic here.

[John Fuller]

Ironically, I just finished cleaning it.

[Jim Daly]

Was it because you knew we were.

[John Fuller]

Gonna come up with this?

[Jim Daly]

No, not at all.

[John Fuller]

I didn't know this was coming, like, three weeks ago. But, yeah, we were out there. Troy and I were sweeping away, getting the boxes organized, putting up the leftover Christmas stuff up in the attic in the garage, and it felt good. I feel good. I feel really good. But, you know, Gene's not here today. And I remember the time I invited Jean to a declutter program, but we didn't really talk about the topic. And she showed up and we got into it. She goes, oh, now I know why I'm here. So, Jean, I didn't invite you today because it's no longer an issue. You just a wonderful job. Yeah, I'm probably more the issue. Do you know one thing that's so funny? I think about this because my laundry, I keep piles. So I got my dirty pile ready to go. And then there's the T shirts I wore just once or Twice. I could wear them again in a separate pile. I'm not going to fold them up and put them back in my drawer. So today we are going to talk about all these wonderful things and spiritually, how they connect to your relationship with God. And you may think, wow, that sounds like such a small thing. Trust me, this is going to be a big thing.

[Jim Daly]

Mm. Yeah. And Courtney Ellis is an author, speaker, podcast host, and pastor. And she and her husband Darrell, have three children. She's written a book that'll be the basis for our conversation today. It's filled with great insights and God's Word woven throughout. It's called Free youe Space, Free youe Schedule, Free youe Soul. Learn more in the show notes.

[John Fuller]

Courtney, welcome back.

[Courtney Ellis]

Thank you so much for having me back.

[John Fuller]

It's good to have you, boy. I appreciate the topic. I do. I make fun of it a little bit, but there's a lot of spiritual application to this. I mean, the Lord said, don't worry too much about this or those things just go. Right. That's a paraphrase.

[Jim Daly]

That sounds like a paraphrase.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, but I mean, the Lord basically was saying, don't worry about materialism. Your Father in heaven knows your needs. And yet it times we just like overload on stuff and then we got so much stuff, it starts to run our lives. So let's start with that, the scriptural application to what we're talking about. Because a lot of people think, you know, that doesn't really have a deep meaning, but it does.

[Courtney Ellis]

It really does. Our possessions, little by little, it's always incrementally. None of us go to the store and buy out the store and bring home everything. But little by little, one pair of shoes at a time, one book at a time, one toy at a time, it can begin to take over. And the Bible does remind us to store up our treasures in heaven. And the real heart of the issue is the more stuff we have, the more time we have to devote to caring for that stuff, to paying attention to where we store that stuff, to going back to the store to get more bins so we can organize this stuff. And that takes away from time we could spend in a hundred other God ordained ways.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. And to make sure everyone understands your background and your credentials. You're the mother of three kids and you're on the staff of a church. Do you really have time for decluttering? You're so busy.

[Courtney Ellis]

Honestly, I think the Matchbox cars make more Matchbox cars. In the middle of the night, I wake Up. And I'm like, we didn't have as many toys yesterday. So it's tough, but it's tough in different ways at different phases of life. I think folks who are retired might look at their shelves and think, I don't need half of this anymore. How did it even make its way into my house? Right. Folks who have young kids, it's really difficult. We have two boys and a girl. And of course the girl, as much as we would love her to be interested in the trains, she is interested in the princesses. So we add to that a whole.

[John Fuller]

Nother inventory set, right?

[Courtney Ellis]

We just add to the stuff. And so to pay attention to it on the front end so you don't have to spend so much time organizing it on the back end is part of the key.

[John Fuller]

You'll be so proud of us. So our boys are now in their 20s and we finally got rid of the toy box in the basement. I mean, it was a massive toy box that had. We did keep the Nerf guns, but everything else out the door.

[Courtney Ellis]

You have to keep the Nerf guns.

[John Fuller]

I was thinking, wow, I think it's about time. This is good. So Gene took the bull by the horns and got that taken care of in a serious way. A few years ago, you were experiencing panic attacks. How did that connect to, you know, unclutter?

[Courtney Ellis]

I was. So we moved from Wisconsin where we lived in this big old farmhouse next door to the church. And it was massive. And then we moved into a California condo and we brought most of our stuff. And stuff can have effects on your spirit, effects on your emotional health. And living in this cluttered place really started to get to me. And the stuff was part of it. My overstuffed stuff schedule was part of it. But I began to feel like I almost couldn't breathe because my life had too much in it.

[John Fuller]

That's a serious moment. I mean, again, a lot of people might let me speak for myself. I mean, I could discount that I can feel like I'm not breathing, but I don't necessarily know why. And to connect that to your over stressed schedule, your clutter, all that. How did you make that connection? That this is, I think, what's causing me this problem?

[Courtney Ellis]

My husband and I had a conversation one night where I said, I just feel like it's too much. And he said, what is too much? I said, all of it. All of it is too much.

[John Fuller]

That's helpful.

[Courtney Ellis]

The schedule, the amount that we've crammed into our life. At the point of when I started writing this book. We had one child, now we have three. And it was just overwhelming. And so we didn't know where to start. So we started by stopping. We stopped buying new things. We stopped putting things on the calendar that weren't absolutely essential. You still do have to go to the dentist. I recommend it. Keep that appointment.

[John Fuller]

Well, let's get into that a bit to be practical for the people that are going. Okay, you convinced me. I'm one of them. What's the process that you use to declutter? And the big question, your husband and your kids on board with this? I could see your kids going, no, Mommy, I like that joy. Give it back to me, Mommy, Mommy, don't throw that away.

[Courtney Ellis]

For sure. We've had that conversation 6,000 times. And you can't really go in and declutter your kids rooms without their permission or that will be really rough on them. And every marriage tends to have one saver of things and one tosser of things. And so there will be tension there as well. I have tried to throw out my husband's high school prom fancy shoes. So you start with yourself. You start with your own closet, your own possessions, your own schedule. And what happened was, as I started to have less, do less, experience the freedom that God offers when we're not overburdened, my husband was like, I think. I think I'm interested. Tell me about that. I think I'm interested in some of that.

[John Fuller]

Bro, let it go, man. Get rid of shoes.

[Courtney Ellis]

And the same was true with our children. And part of it for children is instilling generosity in them. We had a conversation about, look how many toys you have. There are other kids who could use toys, would need toys. We have friends who are going to adopt a foster child, and they have girls, they're adopting a boy. We have boys. We have boy toys. They said, could you spare some? And of course, they first go to the broken things, the things they don't like. And we say, what toys would you want to play with? And so to begin that conversation with them, where it's not, we're clearing it all out. Which as a mom, when I get overwhelmed, that's the temptation. But instead to say, could you maybe pick five things today that we could gift to this family?

[John Fuller]

Courtney, I know from the book this wasn't easy for you. It sounds like you almost mathematically figured this out. A +B equals C. But. But speak to the mom, the wife, the husband, who is not seeing this as an easy task. It looks overwhelming. So speak to your struggles with that as you went through it, it isn't.

[Courtney Ellis]

An easy task because it's not just about possessions. Every possession has memories that are attached to it, feelings that are attached to it, nostalgia that's attached to it. One of the hardest moments was we had moved from Wisconsin to California into this tiny condo, and we brought this table that my parents had gifted to us. This was my childhood table. It had a little bit of 24. Yes. It expanded. It literally could seat 18 people. And we were in a tiny condo. So it was in our dining room, and it was in our living room. And people kept asking, are you going to host a banquet? And I said, no, I just can't part with it. I feel so guilty. My mom gave this to me. I moved it from Wisconsin to California, and finally I realized, okay, I have to let this table go. It's ridiculous. Like, we can't walk in our own home because of this table. And I called my mom and I said, I'm so sorry. I know this table meant so much to our family. I think I have to let it go. And she said, of course you need to let. I was wondering when you were going to like. It doesn't fit the space. I put it online for sale, and within 10 minutes, a pastor's wife contacted me and said, this is exactly what we need for our parish hall so we can have our dinners with our deacons. Thank you so much. I'll pick it up today. And it was like the Lord almighty said to me, see?

[John Fuller]

Yeah, See, I got you.

[Jim Daly]

Right?

[Courtney Ellis]

It's not even that. It's about me letting go of things. It's about who else might be blessed by these. I've been clinging to that don't serve me.

[John Fuller]

You know, so often as human beings, we chase the shiny thing. It could be a project here at Focus. That's one of the disciplines you have to constantly put in an organization. You know, we don't want to chase the shiny thing. What has God called us to do?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah, it can be hard to get ahold of it, Especially a lot of folks who have trouble over purchasing are bargain hunters. And so there's the justification of. But it was only $4, but I got it on clearance. And, like, that's okay. But your closet is still filled to bursting, or your shelves are still filled to bursting.

[John Fuller]

It's.

[Courtney Ellis]

It's not. Ultimately, it's about, what will this possession take from you in the time ahead when you have to care for it, you have to store it, you have to deal with it, and people medicate by shopping. But they also medicate by being busy. And those are two sides of the same.

[John Fuller]

Wait a minute. Well, no, no, no, no, no. Being busy is a good thing. Yeah, that's my problem. Okay. Thanks for taking my legs out from under me. But in that way, you and Darrell, I mean, you set out on this adventure. I'll call it that. It's, you know, a mountain you needed to climb. Did the two of you find healthier alternatives? Was there ever kind of a strong disagreement between you about these things? How did that work out in your own marriage?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah, for sure. It's a journey we undertook together, but also it's a journey we are still taking independently, and we have different thresholds for acceptable amount of possessions. And that's just part of being in a marriage, is God will speak to me. God will speak to him. We will walk this journey together. But when we have a disagreement, it's okay. Ultimately, who's going to wear these shoes? They get to make that final decision. And that's been a good way for us to.

[John Fuller]

I have a terrible confession. So I am a thrower. I mean, if it's an arm's length, it's gone. And so I got a big, big trash bin to come in, and, you know, they set it down for a week in your driveway. And so I start cleaning out the garage. I remember, I think there was a sticky with a phone number and a name on it that was stuck on our atv. And I'm thinking, ok, this has been here for like a year. I don't think anybody needs this sticky. So, boop, in the trash. It went in this gigantic disposal thing. And later that afternoon, Jean's going, I had a number on that atv. And, you know, I don't know, somehow she knew I threw this sticky away, and she goes and gets it. And I'm like, okay, maybe that was too much. So you gotta be a little respectful of things that may be important to your spouse.

[Courtney Ellis]

Yes.

[John Fuller]

Like a phone number.

[Courtney Ellis]

Absolutely. It's risky to declutter on behalf of someone else. You can do it together or you can do it for you. But you need to partner if you're going to do it together. Whether it's a child or a spouse or an aging parent you're helping clean out their house. You may not know what is most important to them. And so those conversations take a lot of time and a lot of energy. But I will say, on the other side of them, you are much more hesitant to bring new stuff into the house because you're like, I've seen how hard it is to pare down and I want to live in a new way on the other side.

[Jim Daly]

Well, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And our guest today is Courtney Ellis. We're talking about freeing up your life to have more space for the things that matter. Her book is terrific about this topic. It's called Uncluttered Free youe Space, Free youe Schedule, Free youe Soul. And we'll invite you to call us for a copy 800, the letter A in the word family or stop by the show Notes where we have the link and further details.

[John Fuller]

Courtney, I want to shift to an area that I don't think we think about when it comes to being uncluttered technology. And as I was reading the book, your emphasis on managing digital assets. I'll use all those big terms, you know, it's really important. And one of the most heartbreaking elements that you had in the book was that children, the observation that children that were born, you know, around 2010, about the time the smartphone came out, they're competing for their parents attention because the parents are looking at their digital things. And you know, that just that picture really broke my heart. Speak to that. And how do children compete with the phone to get their parents attention?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah, digital technology is a wonderful thing when it's used within bounds. And there was a picture in a magazine of a woman's hand holding a phone and a baby laying below it and the woman looking at the phone. And I was like, oh, that's me. Like my kid is seeing the back of my hand and the back of my phone and my distracted face as I'm changing a diaper. Because there are portions of parenthood that are pretty boring. And I was looking for diversion. I was reading articles, I was listening to podcasts. But when we can keep digital technology within its proper bounds, it's a tool that we use rather than a tool that uses us.

[John Fuller]

Let's talk about that. What were some things that you did that you were able to corral that digital beast?

[Courtney Ellis]

I did a bunch of things that failed. First of all, I tried to just be better. And I tried to, you know, and I'd have a good day where I barely looked at my phone and I felt great. And the next day I looked at my phone 6,000 times before lunch.

[John Fuller]

Made up for lunch.

[Courtney Ellis]

Exactly. And what I realized is there are thousands and thousands of engineers behind this screen that get paid if I click, if I scroll. Like it's not a fair fight. And so we've Developed tools as a family that take that fight out of our hands. So we have this wonderful lockbox that we put our phones in during dinner and bedtime, and we just can't access them. And every once in a while something happens, and I'm like, I wish I could take a picture of that. And also, it's okay so to have tools to use the settings on your phone, to limit screen time for yourself, for your kids, to take some of that fight out of your own hands so that you can rest in that peace. And in that space, we take a digital Sabbath. We have at least one week a year where we're off our phones. One month a year we sign off of social media because we don't do things halfway very well.

[John Fuller]

Interesting. Yeah, no, that's really good. Gene was terrific at dinner. We always had dinner and then no phones at the table. She was really good and very insistent upon that. And, you know, it fell into a quick place where nobody questioned it. The boys were fine, and, you know, it wasn't. They didn't even bring their phones to the table, and they held that all the way through. So I think that kind of leadership in the home is really good as well. You know, this is the way we're going to do it. And nobody really pushed back on it, which was good in that regard. Today's tech, you say, has eliminated that space for downtime. You know, you think about that. Boy, what a different world we live in compared to 100 years ago. Just 100 years ago, when there was quiet time. I mean, people were probably working hard at doing everything by hand. And we got all those wonderful conveniences. Washing machine, for example. But there was quiet time, too. And even in doing those routines, they weren't distracted by things. How do you think technology has really soaked up those in between spaces where we don't have downtime?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah, it really has. It fills all the cracks and crevices of our day. And one of the healthiest things for the human brain is boredom and silence. That's where a lot of creativity happens. You ever notice you have some of your best ideas in the shower because your phone's not in there with you? But now we have waterproof phone. You can bring your phone in the shower, but we need those spaces.

[John Fuller]

True.

[Courtney Ellis]

That's bizarre. Yes, children need those spaces. Adults need those spaces. But the easiest thing to do is always to look at a screen. So we have to make it less easy for ourselves so that we have those holy spaces where we can hear from God, where we can look into the eyes of our children where we can remember that we're not just producers and consumers, we're human beings.

[John Fuller]

And it's so good. I mean, again, I don't think most people would think of technology as an uncluttering effort. But your book is packed with these great insights and ideas. We often complain. Moving to the schedule now. I'm going to bare my soul in a very busy moment in my life right now. I'm leaving this afternoon for Montana to meet with folks. But, you know, we often complain about having overloaded schedules. I think many of us, if I could say it, we wear it as a badge of honor. Yeah, I'm busy. I flew here yesterday and I'm going there and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Courtney Ellis]

It's a humble brag.

[John Fuller]

A humble brag. Aren't I important? But we kind of fail to acknowledge most of that's our own fault. I mean, my assistant Teresa is so good. She's like, well, you said yes to this. Well, why didn't you say no? You're the boss. I mean, she's so good at pushing back, but gently reminding me that I created this mess, not her. But how do we, one, I guess, get a hold of that? And then how do we control that out of control schedule so we have time for family and weekend. And how do we do it?

[Courtney Ellis]

It's a tricky thing, for sure. The best practice that we've found. My husband and I serve a church. We have young children. There are always more good things to do and there are always more crises on the horizon. And that's why God gives us the gift of Sabbath every week, once a week, to rest from our labors. And remember that the work ultimately is the Lord's. And it's not a reward for good behavior. It's not great. You finished all the things. So you. And worship. It's. Even with things left undone, which they always will be, the work is the Lord's rest. Worship, pray, play.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, there's a story you had in the book that I want to pull out. You wrote it, so I'm not embarrassing you.

[Courtney Ellis]

Bring it up.

[John Fuller]

How could you ask that? But there was something about a class pet and you were pregnant, so connect all the dots for us. How was this an aha that I should not say yes to this?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah. So our kids attend our wonderful church preschool. And the teachers are amazing. They each have a class pet. It's a bird. It's a little parakeet. And all the children get to take it home for a Weekend or for spring break, something like that. And I'm in the line. I'm like, 100 months pregnant.

[John Fuller]

I've got to ask you, are you saying there's one parakeet in the class or like, 20?

[Courtney Ellis]

Every class has a parakeet.

[John Fuller]

Every class has a parakeet. Okay, good, good. So anyway, you're pregnant. Set that up again. Sorry.

[Courtney Ellis]

So I'm eight and a half months pregnant. My due date is in just a couple weeks. And my oldest son is 3 years old. He's in the class, and the teacher meets me at the door with the parakeet clipboard. And I haven't signed up yet because I've been a little busy. And she says, you know, Lincoln hasn't signed up. Will you please sign him up for the parakeet? And I look, and there's only one slot left available. And it is the spring break, which is in two weeks, which is my due date for our second baby. And in that moment, my unborn son kicks me in the ribs, and I drop the clipboard and I say, you know, I'll get back to you tomorrow. And I go home and share the story with Darryl. And Darryl goes, absolutely not. And I said, well, we have to. Everyone takes home the parakeet. And he goes, courtney, you can tell her no. The parakeet will not survive.

[John Fuller]

Are you looking at my face right now? I'm like, duh. Way to go, Darryl.

[Courtney Ellis]

You're not gonna remember to feed the parakeet when you're in labor?

[John Fuller]

Did the teacher look at your tummy?

[Courtney Ellis]

This is annoying.

[John Fuller]

Oh, my gosh. That's like, self evident. You know, I'm having a baby next week.

[Courtney Ellis]

I'm a person who looks nine months pregnant for four months. So she had no way of knowing how close I was to my due date. But it was this revelation that you have to say yes to every invitation. Even a good invitation, even an invitation that everybody else has said yes to, that sometimes God is calling you to something greater. And that is the secret. Besides Sabbath, the other secret for uncluttering your schedule is remembering your deeper purpose. And in this season, my mission, my deeper purpose was to get this baby safely from one side to the other into the world.

[John Fuller]

The big question, though, someone's thinking it, so I'll ask it on behalf of them. How'd you explain that to your little boy?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah.

[John Fuller]

What'd you say to him?

[Courtney Ellis]

You know, he was okay with it, and we switched with another parent, and we were able to bring the parakeet home when the New baby was a couple months old, and we enjoyed the parakeet rather than forgetting to feed the parakeet.

[John Fuller]

Right, right. So it didn't turn into some disaster emotionally for your son.

[Courtney Ellis]

He was okay with it. He's not a big pets kid. But we also. We could have just said a full no. Yeah, we took the parakeet later because we had space, we had room. We were looking forward to it. But you could just. Just say a full no.

[John Fuller]

You took the parakeet for the summer. That was nice of you.

[Courtney Ellis]

You know what? We took the parakeet. This is funny. We took the parakeet two days before the pandemic began. So we had the parakeet. That. That joke about the person who brought the class hamster home for the weekend. We had that parakeet for seven months.

[John Fuller]

Oh, my goodness. Oh, that's funny. That is a little retribution for the parakeet. It was say no to me, huh?

[Courtney Ellis]

And it lived. It lived the whole time. We brought it back healthy.

[John Fuller]

Incredible. For those that don't know, and this is, on the serious side, a scriptural point to make that Jesus modeled boundaries. And pulling back so often, we think busyness is next to godliness. Some people, I think 80% of people in America think that's in the scripture somewhere. It's not. But describe that blurriness that somehow we equate busyness with godliness. And then take the example. What was the example that Jesus gave us saying no.

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah, busyness helps us feel important. I have things to do. There are many people who need me, so I'm very, very important. And the truth is that busyness often separates us from our neighbor. It separates us from God. It can separate us from our own spiritual need, our own spiritual hunger. And it's a sign that we are not clear in the mission that God has called us to. And this is what we see Jesus doing over and over. It's fascinating if you flip through the Gospels, Jesus says a variation of I am going to Jerusalem dozens of times. He knows what his mission is. He's going to Jerusalem. He's going to die on the cross for the sins of all humanity. And if he had been diverted from that mission, it'd be very bad for all of us. So when he says no to the crowds, it's to go spend time in prayer with his father to prepare him for this mission because he has to go to Jerusalem. When our mission is clear, it becomes much easier to say no to things. What is God calling you to do? What is God calling you to be. How is God calling you to care for your family, to live into your vocation? When these things are clear, it becomes much easier to say no to the things that are not part of that.

[John Fuller]

Well, I think it's an interesting observation when he says, the Lord says, you know, my yoke is easy, My burden is light. For a lot of Christians, they don't feel that. It still feels heavy. I'm so busy. But this is exactly the area of your life that you need to take a look at. Then if you're not able to get that margin to spend time in prayer, to understand what your mission is with your own mission and your family, mission with your spouse, et cetera. In fact, you and Darrell, I think it was in premarital counseling, you were challenged to think about your marriage. Ms. You know, we didn't cover that in our premarital counseling. I think it would have been a good addition to what Gene and I did. I mean, we thought about what we wanted to do to serve the Lord and, you know, be faithful followers of Christ. But how did that stretch you and what was that mission that you created?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah, we had these wonderful premarital counselors, husband and wife, and we were kind of insulted by their question, how will you serve God better together? And we're like, we love each other and we love God and just do the wedding. Okay.

[John Fuller]

And say the question's really good because it was, how could you serve the Lord better together than separately? Yes, that is a profoundly good question.

[Courtney Ellis]

And they said, if you do not have an answer to this, we will not marry you. And we were like, wow. You know, we've been volunteering in the youth group for years, and we love Jesus and we love each other, which.

[John Fuller]

Is to their point.

[Courtney Ellis]

Right. But they really pushed us on it. And they said, if you're not going to serve God better together than separately, then God may not be calling you to marriage at this time.

[John Fuller]

So you ran away for a couple of days and said, we did.

[Courtney Ellis]

I was in tears in the car.

[John Fuller]

Where'd you come back with?

[Courtney Ellis]

Darryl is taking me back to my apartment, and I'm like, we're not getting married, right? This is I can't believe they asked us this question. And they asked it because they love us and because they love the Lord.

[John Fuller]

And it made you think about it and come up with a family mission statement.

[Courtney Ellis]

Yes.

[John Fuller]

And what was it? Basically?

[Courtney Ellis]

Yeah, it was that God is calling us to provide opportunities for hospitality and respite and discipleship. And God has used that every step of our marriage. We now serve a church together and we see that on multiple fronts. Rest for the weary and meal for the hungry. And so many folks within our community are just hungry to be in a place and with people who genuinely love each other and have space for them.

[John Fuller]

And this takes us all the way back to the beginning. You shouldn't have gotten rid of that table. You need 18 places.

[Courtney Ellis]

We do now. We go to the backyard.

[John Fuller]

Now we're saying save everything you've ever had. No, that's not the message today. Courtney, this has been so good. Let's come back and keep the discussion going. I think we can hit some of the other topics that you cover in the book. Uncluttered. Free your space, free your schedule, free your soul. It's a big, big promise. But there's so many good elements here. I'd like to come back and do that. Can we do that?

[Courtney Ellis]

I'll be here.

[John Fuller]

All right, let's do it. And man, I hope we can get this into your hands, especially if you're that person going. Either me or my spouse seems to live in a cluttered environment and we need help. This may not be the book to put on his or her pillow, but certainly get it and read it together. That's something Gene and I have done with a variety of books and we enjoy that. The audiobook of something. And we want to get this book into your hands. So make a gift of any amount. Be a part of the ministry. If you can do that on a monthly basis, it really helps us do ministry better together. And if it's a one time gift, we'll send it to you as well. And John will give you the details on how to get ahold of us.

[Jim Daly]

Just give us a call. 800, the letter A in the word family. 800-232-6459. Make that monthly pledge so we can continue to strengthen families all year long. Or of course, if you're not in a spot to do that. We appreciate a one time gift as well. And get Courtney's book when you click the link in the show notes. And on behalf of Jim Daly who is right now tied up with his technology.

[John Fuller]

I'm John. I'm looking at my schedule. It's really packed. I'm really important.

[Jim Daly]

Join us next time. Maybe Jim will be here. That's as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Dave Stone]

Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally. So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts.