← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:01]
Dave Stone
Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally. So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:33]
Tricia Goyer
Let me go on a walk and clear my mind. Let me take time for God's word. And I think those are things we think we have to care for all these people. And I truly have to care for all these people. But moms especially, we need to step away. We need to spend time with God. We need to care for our bodies. We need to put healthy food in our bodies. We need to go for the walk and clear our minds because we become better moms, wives, people in the community when we do that.
- [01:00]
John Fuller
That's Tricia Goyer describing some of the common struggles that moms face. But the good news is you can also experience godly joy in the midst of those challenges. Welcome to another episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller and we're so glad you've joined us.
- [01:16]
Jim Daly
John, I don't know about you, but everyone is probably thinking about their New Year's resolutions. What are they? How much weight can I lose? You know, I gotta get to the gym.
- [01:27]
John Fuller
How can that. I'm already off missing them.
- [01:30]
Jim Daly
Well, here's maybe one that's a little closer to the fruit of the spirit. How are we going to be happier this year? And I think today's discussion at the beginning of a new year is a good one to have more of the core stuff. Not so much the physical stuff, but the attitude, the emotional well being and spiritual well being that you should possess. Of course, I can already sense some pushback when we talk about happiness. Are Christians allowed to be happy? I always make a distinction between joy and happiness. And I can't wait to start with that first question with our guest today.
- [02:04]
John Fuller
Okay. And our guest is Tricia Goyer, who has been here a number of times. She's very popular as a guest. She's an author and speaker, a podcast host. She's very passionate about foster care and adoption. She and her husband John adopted seven of their 10 children. And so you almost had to say that, did you?
- [02:26]
Jim Daly
Seven of their children, yeah.
- [02:29]
John Fuller
And she's got great insights and her book that she wrote to Kind of capture this essence of happiness is called heart. Staying centered in God's love through chaotic circumstances. And you can get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry. Just give us a call. 800 the letter A in the word family. Or stop by the show Notes.
- [02:52]
Jim Daly
Tricia, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
- [02:54]
Tricia Goyer
Thank you. It's so great being here.
- [02:55]
Jim Daly
Okay, sort me out. I already told you what I was gonna ask you. This distinction between happiness and joy. I tend to make a distinction. Happiness to. Is a little lighter, not as close to joy. I mean, joy feels to me like core deep spiritual stuff. Am I being too hard on happiness?
- [03:14]
Tricia Goyer
Well, I think so, because I think we often think of happy just like it's American Dream of happy. I'm happy because I got a new suv. I'm happy because I just got back from Hawaii. I'm happy because they have my favorite drink at Costco. Now, whatever it is, those are all making me happy. It's all external. It's all. But then if we're going through hard times, we should just be joyful. So when you go back to the Bible, especially like in Psalm 1:1, and when it talks about happy is the man, and it talks about, you know, the trees growing by the water, that is the root of happiness. It is that deeper soul happiness that comes with connection with God.
- [03:52]
Jim Daly
So you'd put joy and happiness kind of more together.
- [03:54]
Tricia Goyer
So joy is more rejoicing. So you can be happy and you could be thankful that God is with you, that God is growing you. Even in hard, chaotic situations, it might be harder to rejoice.
- [04:07]
Jim Daly
Why do you think we hesitate to embrace happiness? Like, feels more like we think of.
- [04:12]
Tricia Goyer
The external, we think of the happy. The what I'm getting, what I'm wearing, what I'm doing at this time, instead of realizing that contentment that's inside. Because really, it came back to where I started digging into what is happiness, what is joy. George Mueller is a man who, for 100 years ago, took care of orphans. Now we talk about, I adopted seven. John and I adopted seven. He took care of tens of thousands of. Of orphans, and he had homes for them. He brought education in. And when I was reading about his life, he talked about, I don't go and serve all these children until my heart is happy in the Lord.
- [04:48]
Jim Daly
He concentrated on being happy, concentrated on being happy.
- [04:50]
Tricia Goyer
And so if you know that no matter what is happening, it might not be joyful, I might not be this upbeat spirit. There might be hard things going. But if your Heart is like, I am the Lord's. God loves me. He has a good plan for me. He's going to provide for me. I am settled in that. That inner happiness that no matter what happens, yes, maybe we can rejoice, or maybe we're just going to be content in that. And later we can rejoice at what God does. So I think it's that deep inner happiness that comes from knowing who we are in God and how much he loves us and cares for us.
- [05:25]
Jim Daly
Trisha, you have a powerful testimony because you were raised in a Christian home, but you were that teen that became promiscuous and you ended up pregnant. And you can tell that I don't want to tell that story. But in that context, it had to feel like you went early as a person from a mountaintop to a valley.
- [05:47]
Tricia Goyer
Absolutely.
- [05:48]
Jim Daly
And then you had to find a way back to that mountaintop of happiness. Probably feeling at that time that you would never get there. Speak to what happened and how God held your hand through that.
- [05:59]
Tricia Goyer
Yeah. So my mom became a Christian when I was. Was in elementary school. My stepdad was not a Christian, but we went to church. And I love the Sunday school teachers. I mean, so many people poured into me from church, that community. But, you know, guys are really cute. And then I was longing for the love of a father I didn't know. My biological father, my stepdad, Vietnam vet, very distant, kind of PTSD type of things. So of course, attention and attraction from a boy. I needed that. I thought that's where I would find my identity. And became pregnant, had an abortion at 15, which is something I really regret. Same boyfriend a couple years later, had my son and he left. We were just teenagers. He was out of the picture. And I remember waking up one day about six months pregnant. And I'm like, I dropped out of school. I was just finishing my credits at home. My friends had gone on with their lives. My boyfriend had moved on. I just remember, just darkness surrounded me and I thought back to those women from Sunday school or my grandma's Bible study that just loved me. I thought of that song, Jesus Loves Me, this I know. And like, could I believe that? And I remember praying. This is my big eloquent prayer. God, I have screwed up this time. If you can do anything with my life, please do. And this lightness and this happiness came, that I think God is going to take care of me. So I was still pregnant. I was still dropped out of school. All the circumstances, all the circumstances did not change. But I had this hope and this, like, happiness in the moment that God loved me and would care for me.
- [07:35]
Jim Daly
Yeah. I mean, that is so beautiful. And that is the redemption of Christ. That's what we talk about as Christians. This is what it's all about. But you have to deal with the circumstances that are left there. But so many people struggle with that. Obviously, you have a story about one of your daughters who developed a limp at a young age. You thought that was a little unusual. How does that tie into all this?
- [07:58]
Tricia Goyer
Yeah. So, you know, I think so many times we go through life, I thought, this is great. Now I'm a Christian. I ended up marrying a wonderful guy. And I didn't realize, like, kind of all the things that were buried deep inside. So one of my daughters, she all of a sudden started limping. And we're like, what's going on? And she's like, I don't know. My foot kind of hurts. And we looked at her foot. Did you? Well, she didn't break it. There's no freezing. It looked normal. We took her to the doctor, and he ended up finding a piece of glass that was hidden in there. We couldn't see it. She couldn't even feel it when she was walking. It just felt uncomfortable to walk in. He ended up pulling out this tiny little piece of glass. And we realized, like, if it hadn't been the limping, we wouldn't have realized it was there. But because we were limping, we realized that there was something in there that needed to be dug out. And so many times we are limping through life, we just like, this is just the way things are. And that's what she said. This is just the way I walk. And I'm like, I don't think that's just the way you walk because you're looking different. Because it wasn't even really a sharp pain. It just felt off on her foot. And I think through life we're going through, like, this is just the way I am, or people just need to accept me and not realizing that there's maybe some shards of brokenness inside that God needs to heal. And for me, it was realizing, like, because I had been the teen mom, I needed to prove myself to God. So I'm going to overextend myself. I'm going to support, do this ministry and serve in this way. And I was limping through because I was exhausted. I was overwhelmed. Then we adopted all these children. I mean, God's word says we're supposed to, you know, care for the widows and the orphans. My Grandma has lived with us since 1999. She's still alive, 95 years old. So I have the widows. We adopted these orphans. And I'm like, what is wrong? Why have I still feel like I'm limping in life? And it was going back to that brokenness that was inside, not truly feeling that God loved me. I. I might. I. I wanted to believe it. Like, I accepted him, but feeling like I still had to prove myself to him. And so in the middle of the chaos of all of a sudden adopting seven children in five years, I'm still caring for my grandma, still homeschooling, still writing books, doing all the things, realizing, like, can I truly accept that God is my father, that he loves me, and find that, remember that, you know, go back to the joy of my salvation. Go back to that moment where I felt that spark of happiness, that God loves me and has good plans for me, and that changed everything. Yeah.
- [10:18]
Jim Daly
Tricia, you're describing something that I think we're all plagued with as human beings, and I think this is seen around the world in a variety of religions, that we're trying to earn our way to heaven. There's almost something in us as human beings. I think it's called pride.
- [10:33]
Tricia Goyer
Absolutely.
- [10:34]
Jim Daly
That we believe the equation is, if I live a good life, if I'm generally on the right end of the scale, then I'll get there, wherever that might be. And it's so faulty because it's not at all what God has said to us. But you're trying to earn your way in. And I could feel that even in your description of this idea, I messed up. I was a pregnant teen twice, and I'm trying to earn my way back. Describe the different message of Christ that you've experienced. I can tell. And I know now that you and your husband adopted seven kids from foster care. You've learned to be relaxed about your, you know, about your attitude about what you're earning or not earning. Just describe that transition for you. Because I think it's really important for us as Christians to know, here's the transaction. Christ died for your sins, and you don't merit it, but he's giving it to you freely.
- [11:39]
Tricia Goyer
Absolutely. I think it came to the point, because I got to the point where I couldn't handle it. I couldn't keep up with everything we adopted. These kids were going to trauma therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, all the different things. And then anger in the home. So much was going on. And then piles of laundry, homework, homeschool. And I remember One day, honestly, the pile of laundry was four feet tall. And I remember being so overwhelmed, and this still small voice from Christ said, I love you just as much. And to me, it was like, oh, wait, he loves me just as much if I have a pile of laundry, if I raise my voice at my child today, if I'm not performing, if I'm late on my deadline, whatever it is, he loves me just as much. And it's just me and him. I don't have to perform. I don't have to be the perfect mom, be the perfect writer, all these things. And in that moment, I just remember just weeping, like, really? Can I believe this? And as you know, I always had my quiet time where I would. That was like a scheduled thing, but it was almost again performing, like, okay, I have my Bible journal. I'm reading. And then just sitting there like, God, can I crawl up into your lap like a dad? And again, I didn't have the dad. I couldn't imagine what that would be like. And going to those places where, yes, I can just come to him, needy, incomplete, behind on everything, completely overwhelmed and just embrace his love for me.
- [13:07]
John Fuller
And.
- [13:07]
Tricia Goyer
And it's going to be okay. And I think we have expectations. My husband's like, did you expect we would adopt seven kids and you'd be able to keep up with the laundry, the cleaning, your book deadlines and homeschooling? I'm like, yes, because, you know, God tells us to care for the orphans. So everything's just magically going to happen in my day. And it didn't. But yet I can trust God and I can love him and even in the middle of this chaotic, incomplete day, just feel his love for me and then walk out that day. In that way.
- [13:38]
Jim Daly
Sounds like you either rest or you get crazy.
- [13:41]
Tricia Goyer
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [13:42]
Jim Daly
Those are your options.
- [13:43]
John Fuller
Yeah. And just to clarify, even what you just said there isn't due. You don't rest in God's love for you just by yourself. That's really an act of his initiation, isn't it? Well, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest is Tricia Goyer. We're covering some of the content in her terrific book Heart Staying Centered in God's Love Through Chaotic Circumstances. And we'll be happy to tell you more about this book. You can learn about it when you call 800 the letter A in the word family, or you'll find the link in the show notes.
- [14:20]
Jim Daly
Let me ask you about an example which I think this plays into here in the book. You talk about your youngest adopted son, I think of the book, you're calling him Buddy. That's good. And some of the difficulties Buddy was having. And a therapist gave you some idea of a different way to approach some things. And again, we're putting this in the context of doing an adoption. But this is good for all parents, for everybody.
- [14:46]
Tricia Goyer
Yeah.
- [14:46]
Jim Daly
Because it's applicable. When you're at your wit's end on what to do, try something different. What was the situation? What did this therapist suggest?
- [14:55]
Tricia Goyer
Yeah, well, this child had been in like 12 different foster homes. And him and his sister behavior, when they have hard behaviors, they get moved around a lot.
- [15:04]
Jim Daly
Right. People can't do it.
- [15:05]
Tricia Goyer
They can't do it. And so we wind up going, and of course, this. He was two and a half of the time not looking back. Now it's like two and a half. But he would break everything. He would run away. He would hit like a lot of hard behaviors. And so she, the therapist had me in a room with a little earpiece. She was in another room. And I had to do three things. I had to say what he was doing. We get out whatever toys he wanted to play with. I had to say what he was doing. I had to repeat what he said, and I had to praise him because he needed to hear my voice in positive ways. We need to have that time together when we're playing. He needs to be acknowledged by me, praised by me. And that's how the bond was built. So he would say, red car. And I'd say, red car. And he'd say, here and say, good job, you're sharing a car with mommy. And then he'd go, vroom, vroom. And I'd say, vroom, vroom. So I'm repeating, I am making eye contact. I am praising him. And not only in the therapy office, and every single day, she said, five or 10 minutes, go into a room and do this over and over again. And then first of all, for him, he got to hear my voice where it's not, stop doing that. Get over here. All commands, all commands. It was the relationship. But also I grew to care for him because I'm looking at him and I'm seeing him. And I think when it comes to God's word, that we can take that we can see what is God doing. We can be repeating what God's word says to our hearts. We can be praising him. And just like I was building that relationship with this two and a half year old boy, we can do that with God's word. Every single Day God, I see here that you care. You say you care for the mother lambs as she cares for her young. I feel like I need your care right now as I'm caring for my young. I'm going to repeat that in a prayer and I'm going to praise you for caring for me. So we can do build that bond. Just like I was building that bond with that two and a half year old little boy. We can build that bond with God through his word every single day of our lives.
- [17:02]
Jim Daly
And I think the key thing there, which really caught my attention, is if you're in that command and control mode as a parent, whether they're your bio kids, your adopt kids, doesn't matter. This is just a great parenting tip. Talk to them, not at them. And that helps them to develop. I mean, that's the key. All the things that therapist was telling.
- [17:22]
Tricia Goyer
You and she said, even if he's throwing a toy in the direction, direction of the toy box, good job. You almost made the toy box. And. And as my other kids got older. So one of our daughters, she rebelled against cleaning the kitchen. She was 11, she did not want to do it. And so I'm like remembering this. I'm like, okay, next time she's doing her chore, I'm walking through. I'm like, great job wiping down this little 3 inch corner of the kitchen. The whole.
- [17:47]
Jim Daly
Or you're thinking, I'll come back later and wipe it.
- [17:49]
Tricia Goyer
The whole sink is a mess. Like, and now she perked up and she's like, oh, mom's giving me attention. And so then she started cleaning more. I'm like walking through the kitchen again. I see you're really maturing in your cleaning. Like this has been five minutes. But you know, and then I'm praising her. She spent 45 minutes cleaning that kitchen as I kept walking through on purpose, walking through and praising her. I was before, you need to do this. Look at the dishes aren't clean. Who wants to have a relationship with someone who's going to treat them like that?
- [18:17]
Jim Daly
Yeah, that's a great point.
- [18:17]
John Fuller
Yeah. And you're both benefiting from that approach. I mean, she's welling up and you're feeling happy about it, the relationship.
- [18:24]
Tricia Goyer
Yes.
- [18:24]
John Fuller
Yeah.
- [18:25]
Jim Daly
And again, we've mentioned it a few times. You have three biological kids, seven adopted children. You know, these kids come with trauma typically because they've come from really difficult experiences. And you know, that's just part of the package. As you get into it, they still need people to love them. And for the most part. They haven't been well loved up until that point. Right. That's part of why they're in foster care. Could have been abuse or something that happened that kind of fragmented that family. Could be drugs or many other things that the parents were into. In that regard, you were feeling overwhelmed with all that. You've described that. But I kind of want to slow that train down a little bit, so particularly moms can hear that. And I know our experience. You mentioned police coming to the house. I mean, I remember coming home. It happened once when we had two foster boys with us. And they, they were children of a meth dealer. So they brought a lot into that relationship. But you do feel overwhelmed. You're out of control. There's something about God wanting you out of control so he can teach you things. Because I think especially those of us who are Christians, we like a home that's in control. This is how we live. This is what we do. We go to church on Sunday and then, man, something like that comes along. How are you feeling out of control at that time? And what did you do spiritually to say, okay, God, this is you. I need to be closer to you and not so close to what people think about me?
- [19:59]
Tricia Goyer
Absolutely. And I think we again, tie our identity to our kids and what they do and what they don't do. And when you have.
- [20:06]
Jim Daly
And how they behave and how they.
- [20:08]
Tricia Goyer
Behave when the kids are showing up and you're having to talk to counselors, you're having to work out things out. There is no sense of control. You cannot control how someone acts, reacts. And with my biological kids, I thought I was a pretty good mom.
- [20:19]
Jim Daly
You were in control.
- [20:20]
Tricia Goyer
I was in control. And they kind of did what I told them to do.
- [20:23]
Jim Daly
And I.
- [20:23]
Tricia Goyer
And then God's like, here, let's try these children. Let's see how you do about this. And it really came down to a lot of. I had to. I had to step back and self care and not self care in the way that I'm going to go and get a pedicure and I'm going to go and like take a weekend. There was no taking the weekends when you have a house full of chaos. This was self care of realizing, you know what, this is really hard right now. I'm gonna go spend some time with Jesus. I'm gonna go. Sometimes it was on the fetal position of my bedroom. I just need Jesus in this moment and stepping away from the situation and feeling his love, his peace. And there's even times I was angry At God, you tell us to adopt and then this is what you're gonna bring in our lives. Like, you knew this was gonna happen. I remember one time it was an appraise and worship service, which is so funny because, like, God, we could have been retired, like from parenting, like active parenting. We could be on the beach, we could have a convertible. We could do all these things instead of taking kids to all these appointments. And God's like, not again. Not audible voice. Really now, like, you're healthy. I'm providing your husband has a good job. And it was realizing like the self care realizing, like stepping away, listening to God, having conversations, reading God's words, and maybe even getting on the fetal position on the floor instead of racing to the next thing and just going through those emotions with God and getting settled, like, okay, even if I don't like the situation, I trust you. I can't see it right now. I know that answered prayers are not quick fixes, that God has a good plan and maybe I'm not going to ever see it in these kids. Maybe in this moment I just need to learn to trust him more and to accept his love in a deeper way. And then taking a deep breath and stepping out. But it was also eating better. I ended up losing £90 because I wasn't caring for myself well. It was stuffing food in my mouth because I was stressed. Stress. And you actually get endorphins from sugar. I mean, I just realized I'm like, let me eat better. Let me go on a walk and clear my mind. Let me take time for God's word. And I think those are things we think we have to care for all these people. And I truly have to care for all these people. But moms especially, we need to step away. We need to spend time with God. We need to care for our bodies. We need to put healthy food in our bodies. We need to go for the walk and clear our minds because we become better moms, wives, people in the community when we do that.
- [22:56]
Jim Daly
Let's end with your story about your grandfather, who I think he called Papa. Tell us about him and what he taught you about living simply and not striving for things and striving to do more. But how did he teach you? I guess what would be rest and peace.
- [23:14]
Tricia Goyer
Absolutely. So I mentioned I became. Well, my mom became a Christian when I was in elementary school.
- [23:19]
Jim Daly
And this is her dad.
- [23:20]
Tricia Goyer
This is her dad. So they didn't become Christians. They were in their late 50s, early 60s, before they became Christians. And so, Papa, they lived In a mobile home. In a mobile home park. He would sit there, and I remember reading his Bible every morning. Very quiet faith. He would go help people mow their lawns. And right before he passed away, they ended up moving in with us as I helped care for him. He had cancer, and a couple days before he passed away, he saw heaven. I mean, he. My grandma called. I was homeschooling the other room. She's like, tricia, come here. And he was sitting there, and this is my very. He's a Kansas. He grew up in Kansas. Very conservative grandpa, raising his hands and just praising God. And I'm like, what is going on? And you walk in the room, it was like heaven was there.
- [24:04]
Jim Daly
You could almost feel like he's in a different place.
- [24:05]
Tricia Goyer
Energy. Yeah. And my. I was like, what's going on? My grandma's like, he was laying there, and he's like, grandma, look at those birds. Grandma. Phil, do you feel that breeze? Grandma, do you smell those flowers? And then he's like, grandma, do you see that lion? He goes, oh, if I was an artist, I would paint that lion. And then he started weeping and praising God. And after he was, I guess, back on Earth, he's like. He saw Jesus like grandpa, would. You see? He's like, Jesus, Jesus. And that was just a couple days before he passed away. And I thought that if Papa never went and adopted kids or wrote books, he was just. He would read his Bible in the morning and he would mow the neighbor's yard because he cared for them. And we don't have to strive to have that and to see Jesus and to step into eternity. He just loved God in a simple way. And here I was thinking I need to do all these things to prove myself and to find myself worthy. And again, my heart was so happy in that moment, even though it was so hard losing him, knowing where he was, and then feeling the presence of God in that room and understanding that he just loves us and we don't need to do anything. We don't have a list we have to follow. We don't have to perform. We just have to love him and accept that. My grandpa did that. After his whole life, he was retired and finally accepted Jesus and was able to step into eternity. And that I always have that image of him just with his hands raised.
- [25:28]
Jim Daly
Well, and it's a simple message then, you know, love the Lord with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like Papa did that. He did did that, and he was rewarded. So that's good. Tricia, this has been great. Thank you for the pain that we've heard in your testimony about being a teen mom and the difficulties of that. You know, it's long ago, but it's not, it's still fresh. And I could feel that. And we appreciate that. How you have turned that sorrow into a story for others, including your own children. And they must be proud of you for being that good mom. Not a perfect mom, but a good mom who loves the Lord. And we're here for you. Whatever your circumstances are, whatever your story is, I think you want to tap into creating a heart happy life, a heart happy home. And the subtitle here Staying Centered in God's Love through Chaotic Circumstances. So that answers the question, if you're in chaotic circumstances, get ahold of us. Order the book from us here at Focus on the Family for a gift of any amount, $5, $10. We'll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for helping other families in the ministry.
- [26:37]
John Fuller
Yeah. And we also have our team of caring Christian counselors. If you need some additional help. If you're struggling and you're just not sure where to turn, give us a try. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family. That's 800. Just ask to speak with one of the counselors and we'll arrange a time for them to give you a call back and help you take some first steps. So call to connect with our counseling team or to make a donation and to get Trisha's book. We've got all the details online and you'll find the link to our website in the show notes. Now, we've also mentioned foster care and adoption today, and we urge you to check out Focus on the Family's initiative. Wait no more. We've got a webpage for you to learn more about what you can do to help children in the foster care system. And the link is in the show notes. And coming up tomorrow, some key habits you need for a great marriage. The Bible has 125 references to the.
- [27:40]
Jim Daly
Importance of forgiveness for interpersonal relationships.
- [27:43]
John Fuller
And so without forgiveness, I always say, it's almost impossible to have lifelong happiness in a marriage relationship. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [28:10]
Dave Stone
Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally. So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts.