← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:10]
Kristen Hatton
Our children need to experience trials. It builds resilience and trust in the Lord and growth. But if we are over parenting, then we're over controlling and trying to take care of all those things for them. And so we need to let go a little bit and come back to experience life.
- [00:30]
Jim Daly
Kristen Hatton joins us today on FOCUS on the FAMILY with Jim Daly. And we're going to be looking at how to parent with the future in mind. I'm John Fuller and thanks for joining us.
- [00:40]
John Fuller
Have you ever considered, John, how much you as a parent can influence your children?
- [00:45]
Jim Daly
I've become aware of how much I can or maybe can't.
- [00:48]
John Fuller
It's always such a tough question, right? Well, we can influence for good, for bad. And the goal for us as Christian parents is to influence them for more good than bad. Right. But man, they watch everything, don't they? They do. I'm shocked now with my boys in their 20s and we talk about things that they observed. I go, wow, you remembered that. So it's a little daunting. But what we want is to live by good example, to love the Lord, let them see that, to teach them God's word and to hopefully build into them that thirst to know the Lord, to live by the Lord's truth and have a life that honors God.
- [01:25]
Jim Daly
Yeah, I think that's most of our audience. We want to pass that faith on. We want to our kids growing with God. But we have to have the right perspective.
- [01:34]
John Fuller
Well, the Bible makes it clear that we need to be influential in our kids lives. I think it's Deuteronomy 6, 7 it says you shall teach, not you could you shall teach God's commandments diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise. That pretty much covers the day. And I tried to do that. Just be an irrigator of God's truth to you. Doesn't need to be profound, doesn't need to be overly done. And today we're going to talk with a great guest about her experience and parenting victories.
- [02:11]
Jim Daly
Yeah. Well, Kristen Hatton is a counselor, author and mom of three adult children and she and her husband reside in Dallas, Texas. Her most recent book is called Parenting Preparing now for the Teen Years. So this is a good perspective building book and we want to encourage you to find out more about our guest and her resource at our website. We've got details in the show notes.
- [02:33]
John Fuller
Kristen, welcome to FOCUS on the family.
- [02:35]
Kristen Hatton
Well, thanks for having me. It's a joy really to be sitting with you guys today.
- [02:39]
John Fuller
Yeah, we're living the dream. You probably didn't know this, but my kids are in their 20s. Your kids are in their 20s?
- [02:45]
Kristen Hatton
That's right.
- [02:45]
John Fuller
You know, I love, just from the get go, I love somebody. When our kids were really young, they said, just enjoy every phase. So I really tried to do that. You know, I talked to a lot of parents, said, you know, I really like those elementary school years. They were the best, but try to live all of them as the best. You think that's good advice?
- [03:05]
Kristen Hatton
Yes, and I agree. They were each the best. And then I would get to the next stage and that was better. And so even now as having young adults, I'm like, oh, maybe this is the best.
- [03:13]
John Fuller
Yeah, even if there's dips in there. And we're going to talk a lot about that. In fact, the first question I have for you is, would you do anything differently? This is a tough question to ask a parent because the answer for me is yes. Would you do anything differently when you look back on your parenting over those 18, 20 years?
- [03:32]
Kristen Hatton
Absolutely. I am not the same mom that I was 26 years ago when my daughter was born. I've learned a lot along the way. So there's some things that I'm thankful that we did, but there's other things that I've learned a lot of. And I know some of that was just intentionality with being present to them. I think there were so many times that I was distracted, I was multitasking, I wasn't focused, I wasn't paying attention to those non verbals and so I missed things and I didn't know what was going on all the time in their hearts.
- [04:04]
John Fuller
Did you? Let me ask you this. To be fair to particularly moms who are in that role so much much, how would you have redone some of those things to be attentive when it's so busy? I mean, you had three kids, a girl and two boys. There was a lot of action going on, I'm sure. But how do you slow down in your late 20s or your 30s when the kids are young and you're going, okay, I need to take this in. That has to be very much a cognitive decision, not an emotional one.
- [04:35]
Kristen Hatton
That's right, because you're right. We, you have to get dinner on the table, there's laundry, there's always things to do. And yet I think what I could have done differently is when they were trying to talk to me when I needed to get something done is say, this is really important what you have to say to me and I want to hear it. Can we table this until after we eat dinner and just let them know, like I'm listening. And I value what you have to say. This isn't the right time because we do at times like we have to do what we have to do.
- [05:01]
John Fuller
But it's so good to say it rather than just act it out. Because I think then the kids, they interpret what you don't care about me. That's right. And if you say, I just, I got some things I'm thinking about or I'm just busy right now, Give me just 5, 10 minutes and I'll come back. But we just don't do that.
- [05:18]
Kristen Hatton
No. And I will say there were times that my daughter, as a later teen told me that she felt like my agenda meant more to me than her at times because I was so. It became an idol. Just my to do list, everything I needed to get done. And sometimes that was writing, deadlines, important things. And yet she felt undervalued. So there was times that I'm like, you're right, I've made this an idol that I'm more concerned about getting this done than paying attention to what you need.
- [05:44]
John Fuller
Yeah, do overs, man. We did much better as foster parents than we did with our bio kids. We had it in tune then. But looking at it, you mention in the book, it's good to have a long term view of your parenting responsibilities. I love that. Cause I think we are so short term oriented, you know, we want to see that change like right now. And I believe in that. You know, think of the long run when that child's going to be 30 and you'll have a different relationship, an adult relationship. But so many things can be broken as a 12 year old, a 14 year old, if you don't handle those things well, you will not have that relationship.
- [06:24]
Kristen Hatton
That's right.
- [06:24]
John Fuller
So how do we keep that long game in perspective? Because all I want them to do right now is to say please and thank you.
- [06:31]
Kristen Hatton
That's right. And I mean the biggest as a counselor, what I get asked all the time is really, they want formulas, parents want formulas. Just tell me what to do so I can get it right. I'm like, there is no perfect parent. But having a long range plan in place does serve as a guardrail, so to speak, so that we have in mind what we're aiming for. So I talk in the book about parenting like a farmer having patience and being Steadfast. But I also like to think of it as planning like a coach. And so coaches watch the film for the upcoming games and so they're planning for the whole season with that in mind. No, it doesn't always go as planned, but that's their aim. And so I think as parents, we should plan like a coach. Like, what is it that we want most for our kids at the end of the 0 to 18 years? And so when we sit down with our spouse and we think about, okay, these are our kind of foundation things that we want. And so that helps guide our decisions so that we're being more proactive as we're going along instead of as we're being bombarded with all sorts of issues. We already have kind of an underlying guide as to how we're going to.
- [07:38]
John Fuller
Let me press you on that a little bit, because we're talking about not having a formula, but if we create these things that we want to see.
- [07:44]
Kristen Hatton
It'S starting to sound like a formula to me.
- [07:46]
John Fuller
So I just want to pressure on that a little bit. How loosely do you need to hold those things? I remember my son, I'll just use an example, because he did something that was kind of right on the edge. And I was like, you know, that's really not the behavior. And he goes, dad, I'm 16, I want to have some fun. I went, yeah, I get it, I get it. But it's that moment where it's not egregious. It's just, I wish you would behave like a 40 year old rather than.
- [08:12]
Kristen Hatton
A 50 year old remembering their actual age.
- [08:15]
John Fuller
So you gotta hold some of those things a little more loosely. I think they become healthier when they have ways that they can show their identity in themselves and express themselves with friends and things.
- [08:27]
Kristen Hatton
Yes, absolutely. And I would say for us, like our primary thing was we wanted our kids to know the love of Jesus and to love him. So that was our number one guiding thing. So that meant what are we gonna emphasize? What are we gonna talk about our conversations in our home? So it was along those lines at the largest level, which are super important. Absolutely.
- [08:51]
John Fuller
Those are the most important things.
- [08:52]
Kristen Hatton
They are the most important. But most parents say they want their kids to be happy and successful, which.
- [08:56]
John Fuller
I do too, but subservient to the other. Yes, I think that's so true. But you know, sometimes too now, the flip side of this, with us as Christian parents, we can really dial into that to where we actually push our children away. So how do we maintain that balance to Be like, honey, not a stick. And draw kids toward the faith. A loving father, a loving Jesus, who. Yeah, we do. He was expecting some behavior from you, but how do we not become just the stick all the time? Which for kids, it's like Charlie Brown replaced all wa wa wa with the stick. Right. And so how do we manage that?
- [09:37]
Kristen Hatton
It feels like the difference between law and gospel. And so I wanted my kids to always know the grace. And so moving towards them, showing them God's grace and mercy as opposed to being law driven and making Christianity like it was just all rules and regulations.
- [09:57]
John Fuller
Yeah, we do that very well.
- [09:59]
Kristen Hatton
Oh, yeah, we do. And that's where the formulas I feel like so often comes in. It's more law driven and we did not want to go that direction.
- [10:06]
John Fuller
You know, this is a little interesting insight, but we're filming a film right now and a former atheist that we've captured who became a Christian and she was formerly a Muslim, then became atheist and then became Christian. But she said in that Muslim context, what drove her was fear. The fear to behave appropriately so you'd be acceptable. And she said, when I heard the gospel, then I realized it's love. And that's a parenting attribution as well.
- [10:35]
Kristen Hatton
That's right.
- [10:36]
John Fuller
If you're only creating fear in your kids to follow these rules and they miss love, they miss grace. We've missed it as their parents.
- [10:44]
Kristen Hatton
We have. And I feel like those are the kids that abandon the church when they go off to college because Christianity for them has been law driven as opposed to the grace and love and mercy.
- [10:55]
John Fuller
You speak to two types of parenting. One reactive, one proactive. Describe those two.
- [11:01]
Kristen Hatton
Well, so a reactive parent is responding just off the cuff to whatever comes their way. They don't have the pre planning. A proactive parent has thought ahead of time, like, what is our aim? What are we hoping to do? And so they have more of those guidelines of this is what we want to emphasize in our family.
- [11:22]
John Fuller
You know, that sounds a bit like temperament influence as well, though, because I can see Jean, my wife, biochemistry, you know, she's pretty buttoned down, so she would think in that proactive way. Here are the three things I want to achieve by the end of the week. I tend not to be like that. And what I'm hearing is that you need some direction.
- [11:45]
Kristen Hatton
That's right. And I can totally see, because my husband and I are opposite in that way.
- [11:49]
John Fuller
Most normal couples will be that way. You have one that's one way, one that's the other. Sure.
- [11:53]
Kristen Hatton
So it Might be more natural to one. And yet we still need to, as with the Bible as our guide, think about what is it that we want for our family and for our children. And again, it doesn't always go as planned, but this is what we're hoping for.
- [12:08]
John Fuller
What was the slumber party? There was that story in the book you mentioned about a slumber party that kind of fit into this proactive, reactive parenting.
- [12:14]
Kristen Hatton
Oh, yes, please do tell us. Well, I have to give you some background. So this occurred when one of my children was a teenager and a mom called me and said, hey, did you hear about the co ed slumber party that's happening after the party? And I was like, no, I hadn't. Well, it turns out my son had heard about it and it wasn't that he was trying to hide it from me, it's just that he had already nipped it in the bud and said, I'm not doing that. I can't do that.
- [12:44]
John Fuller
Wow.
- [12:45]
Kristen Hatton
And so I called the mom back and I said, well, yes, actually my son did, you know, know about it. He said no. And that then gave other parents permission, as if they needed permission to say no. But the whole slumber party just went away at that point. Because other parents.
- [13:01]
John Fuller
That's a good thing.
- [13:01]
Kristen Hatton
It's a. Yes, it is a good thing. But sometimes parents, they. They're just reactive and they don't want their kid to be left out. And so they say yes to things that aren't good things or they don't have the courage to be the lone person that stands up against it. But I was so pro proud of my son because it showed that he already had his own conviction that he knew what was right and wrong and he wasn't going to go there. So he didn't even bother mentioning it to me because he had already taken care of it.
- [13:26]
John Fuller
That's a great indication that you're on the right path. Actually, when they start to handle those decisions and celebrate that and they may not get the next one right.
- [13:36]
Kristen Hatton
That's right.
- [13:37]
John Fuller
Just be mindful of encouragement. But that's great. I think that's a great sign that you're on your way. It is kind of funny. I use that please and thank you example. I remember when I recognized that my boys started to do that. It was like, just like it finally went off. I mean, how many times as parents when they're little do we say say please now say thank you? And you do that 10,000 times through elementary school. And then one day they're at the Store. And they say to the clerk, thank you, and you're going, they got it. But it is like this revelation, right?
- [14:10]
Kristen Hatton
It is.
- [14:10]
John Fuller
But that's a training of the heart.
- [14:12]
Kristen Hatton
It is. And you feel like a broken record. And I think this is why some parents kind of stop teaching, like the Deuteronomy 6 passage. Because they think, my kid's not getting it. They're too young. I've tried. It didn't work. But they're absorbing things, and that day will come. We hope and trust in that. They will.
- [14:29]
John Fuller
Yeah. You also talk about parenting idols. This is a good one to think about. Now, let me confess something, because sometimes I get criticism that focus makes an idol out of family. We're not trying to do that, but we are focused on the family. We realize people may not get married. I get that. But we are trying to speak to those that have. This is kind of the mission we feel God has given us. So don't be offended if you think we talk about the family too much. It's kind of what we do. God has given us. But in that context, creating an idol out of parenting, what does that look like? How do we know if we're doing.
- [15:04]
Kristen Hatton
That we can make an idol out of anything. And a lot of times we make idols out of good things. Obviously, our children are good things, Our marriage is a good thing. But when all of a sudden it is our functional God, like we have to have something. And a lot of times I feel like for parents, our children is connected to our identity. So if our child misbehaves or they don't do well, then we interpret that as we look like a bad mom or dad. So that would be telling. Maybe our emotional response that we've made an idol out of our children, it could be like what we worry about all the time. So I see a lot of parents, there's some idols that tend to be. Parents are prone to. So success, control others, opinions, comparison, comparison, comfort, peace, happiness. Those can become idols, and that drives our parenting.
- [15:59]
John Fuller
I think it's easy and almost we're blind to some of those because they're so prevalent. We are like the comparison thing. I mean, that's when your kid acts up at the store, and now you're worried as they're throwing the tantrum. What are other people thinking of me? I'm sure their child never did that. Gene and I, it's so funny. Before we had kids, we'd be in the store and we would say, when we have kids, they will never act like that. And sure, Enough. Guess what? God blesses you with a kid that acts like that to humble you.
- [16:28]
Kristen Hatton
Of course. Yes. Yes. I think every parent has bitten their.
- [16:31]
John Fuller
Tongue that idea of comparison just to take that one. How do we undo that? Because it feels like so close to our flesh. It comes so naturally.
- [16:40]
Kristen Hatton
That's right. So we see how at any given moment, an idol can pop up. So it takes knowing our own hearts. And really, again, parenting starts with the heart of the parent. So evaluating what am I believing in this moment? And if we know what God says about us is true, that we are secure, that our worth and identity is connected to him, that even when my child misbehaves, it doesn't change who I am, it doesn't change who my child is. And so resting in what is true, what the gospel says is true. Instead of all of a sudden, I've traded my identity in Christ to. My identity has to be tied to a perfect child.
- [17:21]
John Fuller
Kristin, the next idol that you mentioned that is a little close to my heart is comfort, the idol of comfort. Did you need to put that in the book? I mean, I kind of like being comfortable.
- [17:33]
Kristen Hatton
Right.
- [17:34]
John Fuller
We all do, but it's so tr. And this is kind of a curse of the modern person. Right. We have it all going our way. Hot water, bath, you know, warm food, warm house, mostly. And those things are kind of nice.
- [17:47]
Kristen Hatton
They are nice.
- [17:49]
John Fuller
When does it turn into being idol, especially in your parenting?
- [17:52]
Kristen Hatton
Because even good things become idols. Right? So I would say that, you know, after a long day, parents are exhausted. They come home. My husband, for him, he wants to sit down and watch sports. I might just want to sit down in my chair and scroll on my phone or catch up on emails. And now all of a sudden, one of our children needs us for something. So how do we respond if we grow impatient, angry, frustrated that they're disturbing us, they're disrupting our comfort? That's a sign that I have elevated my comfort above everything. Instead of like, okay, it is fine that I want to sit down and relax, and yet. But in that moment, I've elevated above my child's needs.
- [18:36]
John Fuller
Yeah. So self assessment there. When your child is interrupting you while you're watching a football game, you go, hey, don't you know I'm watching the game? That might be the idol of comfort and entertainment, but that's good. You also say in that context of comfort being an idol to stop hurrying the hurt. Now, I think I understand that, and I would be terribly guilty of this. I didn't want my boys to ever hurt or linger in negativity. So I would rescue them a lot. And that's not necessarily a good thing.
- [19:10]
Kristen Hatton
It's not. And we want them to be happy, and so we rush in and try to fix it.
- [19:16]
John Fuller
What are we soothing when we do that as a parent? What are we doing for ourselves that make us. Is it because we feel better about ourselves if we can rescue our child, if we have the capacity to save them from that bad situation, we feel better about ourselves, even though it may be damaging them that they're not able to experience that so they can find their way through it.
- [19:39]
Kristen Hatton
But in that moment, peace and happiness has become our number one thing that we want. And so you're right, we try to fix them, but what happens is our children feel dismissed, and so they need us to just sit in the hurt with them. I mean, all feelings are valid, and yet we teach them inadvertently that it's not okay to not be okay. And so then they stop coming to us with their different emotions because all we try to do is control and fix it.
- [20:08]
John Fuller
Man, that hurts because I was guilty of that. That would be my redo. That would be my redo.
- [20:13]
Kristen Hatton
Yes. And it's one of mine as well.
- [20:15]
John Fuller
Let me also ask you about kind of the core thing where we mentioned at the very beginning teaching your teen a biblical theology generally, but specifically around suffering. Again, I think my attitude was is get out of it as fast as you can and keep moving. But there is a theology of suffering, and it teaches our kids how to trust the Lord, regardless of their circumstances, to know that God's with you.
- [20:39]
Kristen Hatton
Yes.
- [20:40]
John Fuller
How do we do that as a parent?
- [20:41]
Kristen Hatton
Because none of us want to suffer. We would never invite trials to come into our lives. We hate to see our children in trials and suffering. And yet we know in this life there is going to be trials. I mean, the Bible is clear. We are going to suffer. And so we need to help our children understand that one. It's universal. We're all going to experience it. This is a broken world. We are going to have trials. But in it, we take part in Christ. I mean, he suffered. And because he suffered, he can identify with us in our suffering. So helping them to know that you have a resource in Jesus. He draws near to you in your suffering. But also, we know trials and suffering can grow us in ways that. I mean, that's part of why I'm such a different person now, because we did walk through trials and suffering with our children. And God didn't leave me the same. And I'm thankful for it, but we long for heaven. And so that's the other part of the theology of suffering is that because we have brokenness and hurts here, we long for that day when all will be made right.
- [21:43]
John Fuller
The other key thing, allowing your children to suffer brings humility, which when you think of it, that's kind of the cornerstone of the faith. Be humble, for I am humble. And humility brings so many good attributes to your character about being able to get through things with a godly attitude. But man, we rob our kids of humility. Think of that. That's not good.
- [22:07]
Kristen Hatton
That is not good. And resilience they don't know how to endure as they become young adults. If we've taken care of all the trials for them, all the boo boos.
- [22:16]
John Fuller
Let me also, as we're winding down here, you talk about the practice of rhythms in the family. I think we stumbled into that. Gene was great with dinner. I mean, we always had dinner, you know, 6, 6, 30. That was consistent. We spent, you know, an hour laughing together. There was a lot of good. You probably had that with all your kids. There was never quite good times around the dinner table.
- [22:39]
Jim Daly
Always something going.
- [22:40]
John Fuller
But what are some other rhythms we should look for that aren't maybe as obvious? I mean, doing dinner together, I know that all the data is so strong. That's where values get kind of passed along to the kids, et cetera. What are some other things in rhythms?
- [22:52]
Kristen Hatton
We wanted our children to have sibling bonding time because it's so often during the week we're dividing and conquering and the kids are going in all different directions with their activities.
- [23:02]
John Fuller
Does that sound like a pillow fight to you? Sibling bonding time? Let's have a pillow fight.
- [23:08]
Kristen Hatton
I mean, it's not always the easiest route, especially when they're young, because it would be easier for the neighbor kids to come on in and everybody just go play with their own age person. But I wanted my kids to have carved out for them time together. And then what that looked like when our oldest started driving is we would give them money for ice cream, they would go out for ice cream. And at that time we lived in Oklahoma. And they would go drive the back country roads with the windows down and the music blaring. And it just became a really sweet time for them. Whereas then she went to college. They're all gone now, but they have their own little group text. So they have their relationship separate. They are.
- [23:45]
John Fuller
That's a sign of health, I think a good thing when siblings have good communication. They love each other they do. I think that's a great achievement. The parent plays a role in that, but the chemistry of the kids has to play a big role in that as well. And not everybody gets that experience, but that's a good thing. Kristen, we're right at the end. I'm thinking of the mom and the dad who are going, okay, I haven't been paying attention to this. And, you know, wherever they're at in that parenting journey, what are just a couple of steps that they could take to move into that direction, to not regret their parenting style and their need for a redo? What could they do to shore some of those things up?
- [24:26]
Kristen Hatton
Yes. And I would say it is never too late. We may just need to be honest and go to our kids and say, hey, I feel like we should have done some things a little bit differently. And I just want to apologize that we haven't been as intentional about xyz, whatever it is. But I would say absolutely, if you're not in the habit of saying, I'm sorry, start there. And then intentional connection. And I would also say play. Somewhere between the toddler years and the teenage years, I think we forget that our older kids still need just the fun playing. I mean, for me, I was out throwing football with my boys all the time. Now they come home, we go play pool or cards or something. But just so much of our transactions with our kids is, have you done your homework? Did you take your trash out? We need conversation where we're seeking to draw them out and just delight in them.
- [25:17]
John Fuller
That's really good. This has been great. Thanks for being with us. I mean, what a great read. Parenting ahead. Preparing now for the teen years. I wish I would have had this. You should have written this like 15 years ago.
- [25:29]
Kristen Hatton
I didn't know it then.
- [25:30]
John Fuller
Perfect timing. But, you know, it's kind of one of those do over things. You know, the kids are in the 20s for us and 20s and 30s for you, John. But as veteran parents, we look back and would love to say to younger parents particularly, here are the things to pay attention to so you don't have those regrets. And I would encourage you to get a copy of the book, make it fun, get ahold of us, and for a gift of any amount, you know, be part of the ministry, help other parents as we're doing this, but make a gift of any amount. 10 bucks, 5 bucks. If you can't afford it, let us know. We'll get the book into your hands. But if you can do that, we'll send you a copy to say thanks for being part of the ministry and together we're touching other lives and helping build the kingdom.
- [26:16]
Jim Daly
Yeah. Donate today and get your copy of the book Parenting Ahead when you contact us. Our details are in the show notes. Have a great weekend with your family and your church family as well, and plan to join us on Monday. Jonathan McKee has some insight about talking with your kids about God's design for physical intimacy.
- [26:35]
John Fuller
We need to be able to create discomfortable clients of calm, continual conversation where our kids can come to us, where we can be that, go to person, where we talk with them about real struggles and about this amazing gift that God's given us and what that looks like in a real world where there's temptations everywhere.
- [26:55]
Jim Daly
On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us today. For Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [27:10]
Kristen Hatton
Put on your comfiest fuzzy slippers, pour your favorite beverage into a fancy glass, grab your spouse and turn on focus on the family's loving well podcast. Season eight is finally here. Dr. Greg and I have new heartwarming love stories and practical marriage advice to help you cherish your spouse and put Christ's love at the center of your relationship. Listen to Season 8 of Loving well Right Now. Wherever you get your podcasts.