Reducing Drama in your Relationships (Part 2 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Reducing Drama in Your Relationships" (Part 2 of 2)

Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Date: November 26, 2025
Guests: Kathy Lipp & Sherry Gregory
Host: Jim Daly, with co-host John Fuller

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the practical and heartfelt conversation on managing (and reducing) relational drama during the holiday season. Hosts Jim Daly and John Fuller welcome back authors Kathy Lipp and Sherry Gregory to provide biblically grounded, real-world advice for navigating the stress, expectations, family dynamics, and relational patterns that often surface at family gatherings, especially during Thanksgiving and Christmas. The focus is on embracing imperfection, asking for and offering help, effective communication, and setting boundaries—all to foster more joyful, peaceful family moments in Christ.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Acknowledging Holiday Overwhelm

• Normalization of Stress
  "This should be easier. I love my family… What we need to do is normalize that… getting together with the people we love, always bring some additional stress."
  —Kathy Lipp (01:02)
• Hosts and guests stress that feeling overwhelmed is common, and the “perfect family” is a myth.

2. Perfectionism, Expectations, and Asking for Help

• Letting Go of Unrealistic Fantasies
  Kathy and Sherry discuss how we often fantasize about perfect holidays, but reality is messy and everyone has relational rough spots.
• The Power of Asking for Help
  Sherry shares, "I think this is so important... we have it all in our head, we don’t ask for help. We don’t let other people know the expectations." (05:25)
• Creating a ‘Help List’
  Kathy suggests making a list of tasks others can do—no more expecting family to read minds.
  "Anything anybody else could possibly do... I call it my help list." —Kathy (07:29)

3. Family Roles, Communication, and Inclusion

• Letting Family Members Contribute
  Invite kids and spouses to participate in ways they enjoy or are good at.
  "Find what they would naturally be good at and ask them and say, 'it's just not going to be the same if you don’t participate.'" —Kathy (10:45)
• Delegating with Grace
  Recognize differing abilities and desires: give fun projects to some, critical tasks to responsible adults, and respect older relatives’ limitations.
• Helpful Tip:
  "A bad list is better than no list. Even do the back of an envelope and say, here are the 10 things that need to get done and here are the three people I can ask." —Kathy (11:59, 12:23)

4. Honoring Different Family Traditions

• Mother-in-Law and Daughter-in-Law Dynamics
  Kathy emphasizes honoring new family contributions while maintaining a spirit of grace.
  "As a mother-in-law... I want to honor his contributions... if she says, 'in our family, we have cranberry cheesecake... could I bring that?'... the more the merrier." (12:41)
• Navigating Difficult Help Offers or Different Expectations
  Open dialogue and small contributions are key to blending family traditions and avoiding overwhelm.

5. Self-care is Not Selfish

• Prioritizing Well-being Sherry asserts that proper rest and personal care make us better able to serve our loved ones.
  "When we practice self-care, then we can truly take care of other people… making sleep a priority… guilt free sleep, yes. It’s not lazy, it’s absolutely necessary." —Sherry (15:23–15:56)
• Handling Social Overwhelm
  Introverts (and those with social anxiety) should pre-arrange “escape plans” or quiet breaks. Kathy shares, "You come for 45 minutes and decide whether you want to stay or not… You're a better you when you come back." (17:31–18:23)

6. Dealing with ‘Crisis Creators’ and Saboteurs

• Identifying Unhelpful Patterns
  "The perfect one to talk about at the holidays is the self-saboteur… who has the idea that basically they're going to remodel the house before the holiday." —Kathy (18:45)
• Choosing Inclusion Over Impression
  The greatest memories come not from perfection, but from making people feel valued and included, even at the cost of elaborate traditions.
  "Am I trying to make an impression this Christmas, or am I trying to make inclusion my priority?" (19:50)

7. Addressing Whiners, Deal-breakers, and Boundaries

• Constructive Questions for Difficult Guests
  For the chronic complainer:
  "What’s going to be important to you this holiday that’s actually doable?" —Kathy (21:47) Kathy suggests letting people pick one important tradition they can't live without.
• Big Deals vs. Deal Breakers
  Sherry defines:
  "Big deals are things that are recurring but manageable. Deal breakers… if it happens again, serious conversation—even not showing up for family." (23:45)
• Examples of Deal Breakers
  Disrespect, abuse, or bigotry—especially repeated—require hard conversations and sometimes distance:
  "We have to draw the line there. As Christians, we have to take a hard line to sin... have the courageous conversation first." —Kathy (25:24–25:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "They wanted a mom who was present and happy. They didn’t care about anything else." —Sherry Gregory (06:24)
• "Roger will do anything that I don’t tell him telepathically. I have to actually, tell him with my mouth." —Kathy Lipp (09:11)
• "You know, it may not be done the way I would do it, but that just brings something new and fun to our family." —Kathy Lipp (14:17)
• "If we haven’t had our sleep, we start snapping at each other." —Sherry Gregory (15:54)
• "I have to pick one or two things I’m going to excel at, and then the rest of it, we can figure out." —Kathy Lipp (19:53)
• "Am I impressing people or including people?" —Kathy Lipp (19:53)
• "What’s going to be important to you this holiday that’s actually doable?" —Kathy Lipp (22:22)
• "A bad list is better than no list." —Kathy Lipp (11:59)
• "Have the courageous conversation first. The courageous conversation says, I love you, I want to spend time with you, but this is something that we can't partake in." —Kathy Lipp (25:24–25:25)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:01–01:41 – Opening; The reality of family stress during holidays.
• 03:01–04:50 – What feeling overwhelmed looks and feels like.
• 05:20–06:34 – Realizing help is necessary and asking for it, letting go of doing it all yourself.
• 09:08–10:24 – Communicating needs clearly in marriage and family.
• 10:45–11:41 – Delegating and engaging kids and teenagers.
• 12:23–13:45 – Blending family traditions; inclusion vs. control.
• 15:08–16:45 – The importance of self-care and planning for introverts.
• 18:45–19:53 – Self-sabotaging holiday expectations and choosing simplicity.
• 21:47–22:28 – How to engage ‘whiners’ with constructive questions.
• 23:45–25:25 – Distinguishing between big deals and deal breakers; when to set boundaries.
• 25:37–27:40 – Final encouragement and resources from Focus on the Family.

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Key Takeaways

• There’s no perfect family or gathering. Normalize stress and imperfection.
• Don’t expect loved ones to read your mind—make clear, specific requests.
• Let people help in their own ways, and appreciate unique contributions.
• Prioritize presence over presentation: Inclusion trumps impression.
• Self-care is a family service—not a selfish act.
• Recognize and address destructive patterns (crisis creators, whiners, disrespect); set healthy boundaries when necessary.
• Maintain focus on Christ-like grace and open, honest conversations.

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Recommended Next Steps

• Make a "help list" for your next family gathering.
• Initiate open conversations about important holiday traditions.
• Schedule intentional self-care and introvert downtime.
• Identify recurring "big deals" and potential "deal breakers" in your family dynamics, and plan for necessary boundaries.
• Seek out Focus on the Family's additional resources and counseling support, if needed.

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For full details and practical worksheets, get Kathy Lipp and Sherry Gregory’s 'How to Quiet the Chaos and Restore Your Sanity.'

Transcript

[Jim Daly]

Barbara grew up with an abusive father that she feared and hated. So when she became a mom, Barbara needed lots of help.

[Sherry Gregory]

To me, Focus on the Family has always been my parenting guide because my parenting that I grew up with needed to change.

[Jim Daly]

Today's culture pushes confusion and chaos. Parents like Barbara are desperately looking for a source of biblical guidance and truth.

[Sherry Gregory]

Focus on the Family provided the parenting resources that I needed in order to raise a health child, one that knew she was loved, knew she was important, knew she was special to God.

[Jim Daly]

I'm Jim Daley. Every day, people reach out for help with their marriages, their parenting, and their faith. Your support is urgently needed to deliver hope and joy to these families. For a limited time, we have a matching opportunity where any gift you send will be doubled. Give today at focusonthefamily.com/family.

[Kathy Lipp]

This should be easier. I love my family. You know, we have a couple of problem people. Maybe I'm the problem person sometimes, but this should be easier. And what we need to do is normalize that. These holiday gatherings, getting together with the people we love, always bring some additional stress and to plan for that and say it's okay, but to know we're not crazy for feeling stressed out, that's.

[John Fuller]

Kathy Lipp, and she's got advice about solving dilemmas that come up during the holiday season. Here on Focus on the Family, Kathy is joined by her co author, Sherry Gregory. And your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller.

[Jim Daly]

Hey, John. Last time we started what I believe was a tremendously helpful conversation for those who feel overwhelmed by relationships, especially during the Christmas holiday season, which I think is pretty much everybody at one point or another. I mean, I see it with Jean, too. She gets a little stressed out and, you know, she's trying to do it well, do it sometimes perfectly. And even though she would say, I know I can't do it perfectly, but she's still going to try. And I loved what Kathy and Sherry shared about last time, that importance of making it a point to pre decide how you're going to respond before you're in the situation and you respond out of the emotion of the moment rather than out of what God would want you to do. And, you know, sometimes we leave God on the side when we're dealing with our family because they know we're Christians and we don't have to put it on display. And sometimes it'll get you in trouble. And we're going to give you, I think, wonderful tools to be able to better manage the chaos of this holiday season.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. And that'll help you avoid some of that trouble this season. Our guests are Kathy Lipp and Sherry Gregory, and they have a great book called Overwhelmed by How to quiet the chaos and restore your sanity. Click on the link in the description to get your copy for a donation of any amount.

[Jim Daly]

Kathy and Sheri, welcome back to Focus.

[Kathy Lipp]

Always great to be here.

[Sherry Gregory]

Thanks for having us back.

[Jim Daly]

Now we ripped it open yesterday and started talking about all those painful moments. The in laws husband gets on your nerves, all those great details. And if you missed it, I would download it or get the smartphone app so you can listen to it at your leisure.

[Kathy Lipp]

But.

[Jim Daly]

But it's a wonderful conversation we started and very real. I appreciate that. I think that's one of the disservices we can do in Christian communication is we kind of go with perfect. And everybody's going, I don't live there. And so you guys always bring that wonderful heart of imperfection. That's a compliment, by the way. That is a compliment.

[Kathy Lipp]

We'll take it as such.

[Jim Daly]

Let's start there. For those who didn't hear the program last time, describe what being overwhelmed during this time of year looks like and feels like.

[Kathy Lipp]

Well, I think the keystone feeling for me is feeling like it should be easier. It just should be. It seems like everybody else, they've got it under control. Their kids rise up and call them blessed.

[Jim Daly]

Oh, sorry.

[Kathy Lipp]

Exactly. Right. And everybody's family gets together and they agree on everything. And by the way, I'm an excellent cook. And so I can just put this feast on the table and nobody has to help out. And I can have those fantasies, you know, in August. But as November and December land on me, I realize, you know, my family, we have these points that are stressful, and then I'm not as good as I think I am when it comes to all the cooking and all that kind of stuff. And why isn't anybody helping me, even though I didn't ask anybody to help me? And the overwhelm can get it. The overwhelm can get to every area. And you feel like not only am I failing, but I'm in this boat.

[Jim Daly]

Alone Now, Sheri, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but being the firstborn daughter, do you have a little bit inside of you that says, well, I'm close to perfect in that way? I get things done.

[Sherry Gregory]

You know, I am a getter doner, but my mother was a home economics major.

[Jim Daly]

And so there's just no relief there.

[Sherry Gregory]

There's just no way I could ever. And she had a double oven. I finally figured that out last year. I could never. I could never get hot foods on the table. Hot and cold on the table. Cold. And I finally. My brother reminded me she had a double oven. I don't. I'm like, well, there we go.

[Jim Daly]

You know, nowadays, it's a triple oven.

[Sherry Gregory]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

What?

[Kathy Lipp]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

I'm kidding. I don't know.

[Sherry Gregory]

But, you know, I think part of this is realizing I don't actually like to cook unless there's a lot of people in the kitchen with me. Cause I'm a collaborative person. And so when I started realizing, hang on, I'm in the kitchen all by myself. Everybody else is out someplace else having fun. I'm in here feeling persecuted. But I have to do it this way. Cause it's the way we've always done it. It was so helpful to realize, you know, let me figure out who could help me with different dishes. And it turned out my daughter wanted to learn how to make the tabbouleh. My son wanted to learn how to make the baklava. And so I started divvying up some of the dishes and inviting them. I think this is so important is we. We have it all in our head. We don't ask for help. We don't let other people know the expectations. And we think our expectations are the only ones in the room. And I also found out of all the things that. Because I actually did start cooking all the foods from my husband's side of the family and all the foods from my side of the family. So, like, 20 dishes, all for the same meal. And we finally sat down and said, let's talk about what we really need. Let's all talk about what it really takes to make this a good holiday.

[Jim Daly]

Sounds like the Mediterranean diet is where you landed.

[Sherry Gregory]

Yeah, well, we did. But you know what it turned out is, it turned out that what my kids wanted is they wanted a mom who was present and happy. They didn't care about anything else. They wanted mom to be a lot less stressed.

[Jim Daly]

I want to kind of put a little more emphasis on this idea of expecting people to do more without asking them to do more. Because I think every woman's going, and men, too, are saying, wow, yeah, I do that. How do you catch yourself to be fair to that person? I mean, here we get. We build up this bitterness and resentment, and they're not mind readers, okay?

[Kathy Lipp]

It's all time and expectations. This is a common theme for us. And so what I finally did is Because I have people in my family who want to help, but I'm in such a mode, it's hard for me to say, yes, go make the fruit salad, when it's just easier to do it myself.

[Jim Daly]

Because is it easier? Is there a little bit of pride there? If I can get it all done, then it shows how efficient, effective and.

[Kathy Lipp]

Wonderful on the pride angle. But I understand other people. Yes. And you know, there are.

[Jim Daly]

Sherry's shaking her head yes, well, that's fine. I love it.

[Kathy Lipp]

Who are known for their pumpkin pie. And it would be sacrilege in the family for anybody but Aunt Betty to do the pumpkin pie. Let Aunt Betty do her thing. That's great. But in my house, it's like putting the cheese plate together. And so now, now what I've got is I have a list. I call it my help list, okay? And so I think through at least a day before, maybe it's two days before, what is anything that anybody else could possibly do. And so putting the cheese plate together, unloading the dishwasher. And so I put together that, that whole list. And this is going to sound crazy, Martha Stewart. I don't care. It helps me. And so it makes me happy. I put all the cheeses that need to go on that cheese plate in one bag and says, there's the cheese plate. And by the way, I don't care what the cheese plate looks like at the end.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, now you're talking my language.

[Kathy Lipp]

As long as there are carbohydrates and cheese products on a plate, my family's happy.

[Jim Daly]

I am typically the cheese plate preparer.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yes. Now, are you giving very specific instructions or do you just get to go wild?

[Jim Daly]

I think I actually have a little knack for it.

[Kathy Lipp]

Does it?

[Jim Daly]

Well, already Gene buys the cheese, but it's just me cutting them. And I might even put little pickles around and relish.

[Kathy Lipp]

Look at that.

[John Fuller]

I mean.

[Kathy Lipp]

And you have found your spot.

[Jim Daly]

John's puckered face.

[John Fuller]

Pickles on a cheese.

[Kathy Lipp]

Well, you know, like little pickles and.

[Jim Daly]

Your other stuff on there too.

[Kathy Lipp]

And by the way, there is somebody in your family who will be the hero and say for me, it's my daughter Kimberly. Now my husband will help all the time. He's great.

[Jim Daly]

I hear a little hesitance there.

[Kathy Lipp]

What do you mean?

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, he'll help all the time, but not very helpful at all.

[Kathy Lipp]

No, no. Here's what I'll say about what I've learned. Roger will do anything that I don't tell him telepathically. I have to Actually, tell him with my mouth, hey, it would be great if you unloaded the dishwasher. Hey, could you. Can we.

[Jim Daly]

We have just moved into marriage advice.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yeah, it's. But it's true. It's marriage saving advice. But when I'm like, he's just standing there, doesn't he know that the dishwasher needs to be emptied? And I Finally, after 15 years almost of marriage, realize, no, he doesn't. It's never occurred to him that the dishwasher needs to be unloaded.

[Jim Daly]

Everybody's overwhelmed in different ways. That may be most guys going, I don't even know where to start here.

[Kathy Lipp]

Right. And he doesn't want to do the wrong thing that then will set me off. Like, why are you out cleaning the barbecue? That does not help me.

[Jim Daly]

Because it's outside the house.

[John Fuller]

Right.

[Kathy Lipp]

And so to have somebody like Roger, he'll say, give me a list and I'll make it all happen. And that is brilliant. My daughter Kimberly, she's the one who will come over and say, if you need me to clean the bathroom, if that's what's going to serve you best, mom, you need. I know. And we're sitting here, our little hearts are beating as moms. But, you know, there are other people. I would never ask my mom to come over and clean my bathroom. Right.

[Jim Daly]

Her day is done. She doesn't need to do that.

[Kathy Lipp]

Exactly.

[Jim Daly]

She is not tv.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yeah, she. And she still helps, but let's give her fun projects.

[Jim Daly]

What about. And there's going to be this kind of situation too. You got the teenagers that are like, yeah, okay, whatever. And then they struggle getting it done. I have been on you for two hours to do this. What do you do there?

[Kathy Lipp]

The things that are critical, those are gonna be left up to the adults. Let's just make sure of that. I don't wanna be in a knockdown drag out with my kids on the day. So the other thing I try to do is say, okay, I have a kid who loves to bake. So let's put Jeremy on the cakes. Let's have him do that. Find what they would naturally be good at and ask them and say, you know what, it's just not gonna be the same if you don't participate.

[Jim Daly]

You know, enough time now over the last few years to actually develop a list where it's become more routine, where you just kind of tape it to the cabinet.

[Sherry Gregory]

Spreadsheets.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, that might be a little much.

[Sherry Gregory]

But I think a lot of it is. We think this should all come naturally, like you know, it happens every year. I should remember. Oh, my goodness. But when you make the list and you've got it saved on your computer and you keep adding to it each year and you tweak it just a little bit, it is such a comfort to bring it up. And a lot of stuff can be done in October.

[Jim Daly]

Right. But now here we are in November. So the advice you would have is to take a deep breath, get through this year, and let's aim for next.

[Kathy Lipp]

Year and then write down everything you did exactly right so that you can repeat it for Christmas.

[Jim Daly]

Those things that you liked.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yes, exactly.

[Jim Daly]

Not everything you did right.

[Kathy Lipp]

Right.

[Jim Daly]

Yelled at grandmother. Yeah, don't write that down.

[Kathy Lipp]

Don't write that down. But yeah, to keep track. And I know where Thanksgiving is happening, but I would say a bad list is better than no list. So even do the back of an envelope and say, Here are the 10 things that need to get done and here are the three people I can ask and do that list right now. Do not get up from where you are sitting right now listening to this. Make the list now.

[John Fuller]

Okay, what about this situation where the daughter in law wants to help out, but it's never going to be done properly? How do you cut through that? So let's flip it around and say we want to be with family and we want to help them, but they don't want our help the way we do it.

[Kathy Lipp]

Well, I think it depends on if you're the mother in law or the daughter in law. And then the husband also has a role to play in all of this. So as a mother in law, which I am to a wonderful young man, Sean, I want to honor his contributions because he's as much a part of this family as I am, just because we've been hanging out longer together. So he brings a new aspect to things and I want to be able to honor that. And so as I have a daughter in law, I hope I'll be able to do that as well, to be able to say, you are welcome here. We want to find out more about you. And if she says, you know, in our family we have cranberry cheesecake every single year, could I bring that? I want to be the kind of person that says, the more the merrier. We want to honor that. If you're the daughter in law and you're not feeling accepted, it's time to have a conversation with your husband and just say, what's our best strategy here? How's the best way for me to honor your mom in this because you're not trying to usurp her authority, you're not trying to kick her out. You just want to say, hey, I want do. And maybe it's in a small way, maybe it's a small contribution instead of saying, okay, well in our family we did these six things and so I want to bring them to your family. That could be overwhelming. So let's say, is there a small way you can do it? But I'm hoping that the mother in laws out there are saying, you know, it may not be done the way I would do it, but that just brings something new and fun to our family. And so we have to approach both ends of this with grace and putting the other person in front of us and honoring each other in the relationship.

[Jim Daly]

And you talk about the husband being involved. Now you got to give us the instruction, what are we doing with this information once we get it?

[Kathy Lipp]

There are conversations that my husband can have with his mom and that he can have with me that only he can have.

[Jim Daly]

So he has to play that negotiator role.

[Kathy Lipp]

Right. But you know what, what he's trying to do is honor both of these important women in his life. But let's be clear, his job is to protect his wife and so he wants to honor his mom. I want to honor his mom. And so I need to tread lightly in those situations. But Roger's going to be the one who says, mom, we need to make some space. You know, it's not just about us anymore. And I know you love Kathy, so let's. How do we make room for Kathy? I can't have that conversation with my mother in law, but she can have it with her beloved Roger.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, Sherry, Self care. We touched on it lightly last time, but we didn't really drill into it. It's like the last thing on the list at this time of year. I mean, really, seriously, self care? What are you talking about? Take a walk. I don't have time for that.

[Sherry Gregory]

Well, first of all, I think so many women feel like self care is selfish and as if we're only focusing on ourselves. The thing about true self care is when we practice self care, then we can truly take care of other people. Because if we're wearing down, if we're getting sick because we haven't taking care of ourselves, then that, then the whole holiday season is going to be worse for everybody.

[Jim Daly]

What does it look like? Tick off some things that you need to think about.

[Sherry Gregory]

I know it's going to sound hard to do, but making sleep a priority at Least in our household, if we haven't had our sleep, we start snapping at each other.

[Jim Daly]

So guilt free sleep, yes.

[Sherry Gregory]

It's not lazy. It's absolutely necessary. It needs to be a priority. And then for those of us who are either introverts or ambiverts, when we're at a family gathering, I mean, I've learned, I've given myself permission because nobody's going to look at me and say, sheri, you look like you're overwhelmed. You look like you need five minutes in a darker room with the lights out all by yourself.

[Jim Daly]

That could be a scary comment by that point.

[Sherry Gregory]

I probably need a half an hour, but you know, or just go take a, you know, maybe they're out of butter and I can go run to the store and have a little bit of time away from all the hustle and bustle to come back. But just even for me, knowing that I'm going to take the responsibility to take that time rather than try to make it through the entire time. Because for introverts, we're drained by so many people. And to recognize that and to say, I'm not going to blame them, I'm not going to make it their fault. They don't have to turn down the music today I'm going to be the one who says, I'm going to take the break.

[Jim Daly]

In that regard, your husband, this is normal or typical, but it's not always true. And I recognize that. But your husband may be more extroverted then because usually opposites attract. Not always, but we're an unusual couple in many ways. Well, in that regard though, in the most usual of ways, when you have an extroverted, introverted person, how can that extrovert be more aware of that? It is a draining to an introvert to be around a lot of people. So what can you say that makes sense?

[Kathy Lipp]

I'm an extrovert and I have many introverts in my family and Roger is an introvert. And so I will sometimes I'll say, hey babe, would you be able to go work on something upstairs for me for just a few minutes? And that's my key to say, I understand the kids are making, you know.

[Jim Daly]

It'S too much for you to do it for him.

[Kathy Lipp]

I'm doing it for him. And then I have a son who has social anxiety issues. And so he and I have a pre arrangement that one, you come for 45 minutes and then you decide whether you want to stay or not. When he was living at home, it was 45 minutes. I asked him to participate and then go to your room for a while. You know, go read a book or go watch a movie. And then when you feel like you've got that reserve built up, you can come back. For a long time, I was the guilt mom who said, your grandmother's here. You know, you need to be here. But what I've come to.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, I can hear that.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yes. But what I've come to understand is he's better for grandma when he is honored for who he is and being an introvert and having social anxiety. I need to be able to say, you get to have a break because you're a better you when you come back.

[Jim Daly]

No, that's good. In the book, you mentioned this idea of crisis creators. Boy, people are going, oh, I know that person. Or maybe some people are saying, ooh, I could be that person. Define crisis creator. And then let's get into some. The descriptions of people during Christmas and the holiday season. They do things that, you know, really disrupt the events.

[Kathy Lipp]

I think the perfect one to talk about at the holidays is the self sabotager. And this is the person who has the idea that basically they're going to remodel the house before the holiday.

[Jim Daly]

So this is a crisis creator.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yes, this is a self sabotager who says, I've got these crazy over the top ideas, and I don't care if it kills me and everybody around me.

[Jim Daly]

I'm gonna remodel the house for the holidays.

[Kathy Lipp]

Exactly. Exactly. I've got this list of a thousand things that need to be done. And here's the thing. There are some people who can transform their house. They just have that gene. They're, you know, they're the people who are the decorators and things like that. But when mere mortals get those ideas, what we're doing is we're killing ourselves and we're killing everybody around us. And we think we're just doing it to ourselves. But what Sheri was saying earlier is so true when her kids say, we want to have a mom who's present. And I think that it's so easy to think about, am I trying to make an impression this Christmas, or am I trying to make inclusion my priority?

[Jim Daly]

Huh. So how do you deal with the self saboteur?

[Kathy Lipp]

Yeah. So I think there, as a woman, I will say, I love to make things beautiful. That makes me super happy. I love to make food that's wonderful. But I have to pick one or two things. I have to pick something that I'm going to excel at, and then the rest of it. We can figure it out. So we just did. This was our most low key Christmas we've ever done in our entire lives. And we did two things that we just turned it on its head. We didn't have any of the traditional food. We did something called rassalette, which is kind of a Swedish fondue where you grill meats and you grill cheeses and things like that. So we did that. And then our main activity, we called it Christmas Trivia Bingo. And so we got, we got 10 and $15 gift cards and we played bingo. And it was something that was so easy for everybody to be included in. Dinner was DIY because we set out the cheese and the meat and the, the stuff and we said, go for it. Everybody loved it. We kept it simple. And here's the thing. Am I looking at what am I impressing people or including people? And what's the holiday that people are going to remember when they felt loved and included? And we had people there from different faith backgrounds, different relationship backgrounds. We had a blast.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And diy. Do it yourself. Okay. I got a simpler meal plan for you. Do it. It's called Delivery pizza and all the football you can watch. Okay.

[Kathy Lipp]

That may not be as inclus as you might imagine.

[Jim Daly]

Which crisis creator is that? Probably the selfish one.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yeah. And then there are others. The whiner. You know, the person who is just going around and picking out everything when you say, oh, I'm so disappointed because it wasn't like it was last year or two years ago or four years ago.

[Jim Daly]

This is good.

[Kathy Lipp]

You know when your common theme is, I'm so disappointed, you may be a whiner. I'm just going to say, and so the people who are not participating but are complaining, that is a crisis creator. So I think if you're the one who's hosting and you know that that person is a crisis creator and they're the ones who are whining. I think this is a great clarifying question. What's going to be important to you this holiday that's actually doable? You know, we can't recreate the Christmas from 10 years ago, but is there a dish that would make you super happy now?

[Jim Daly]

How do you do that without saying in no uncertain terms you're a whiner and I'm here to try to make you happy?

[Kathy Lipp]

You know what I think you're saying? Hey, I know the holidays can be really stressful for all of us and sometimes things get missed. Is there something that would be really important to you this year that I could make happen. And if it's a certain dish, you know, they want to make. Sure. Like, for my dad, it was the cranberry jelly that came in the shape of the can.

[Jim Daly]

Like, to him, that is sufficient.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yeah. That was so important to him. I did not know that cranberries were actually berries until I was in my 30s.

[Jim Daly]

You thought it was gel?

[Kathy Lipp]

I thought it was just this gel sauce.

[Jim Daly]

But, you know, you can smash it. So it doesn't have the can shape?

[Kathy Lipp]

Oh, no, no, no, no.

[John Fuller]

Because that's part of the beauty of it.

[Kathy Lipp]

Then how could my dad slice it off and put it on his stove?

[Jim Daly]

Oh, so he really loves the can shape.

[Kathy Lipp]

Yes, that was very important to him. And so when I tried to get fancy, when I tried to get all.

[Jim Daly]

Fancy and crush the can shape, well.

[Kathy Lipp]

I thought, what if we had real cranberries? And what if we cook those? No. I just. I rocked his world. Yes. And so he wasn't a whiner about it. But it's also something that if you have somebody who says it's not Christmas without, have them pick one thing.

[Jim Daly]

Also, you encourage people to determine the big deals and the deal breakers. Like you differentiate between the two. What are you getting at?

[Sherry Gregory]

You know, big deals are things that are recurring but are manageable. Deal breakers are going to be the kinds of things where, if it happens once, okay, if it happens a second time, there's going to be some really serious conversation. In both cases, these aren't problems that are solved. They're what Dr. Cloud would call a pattern. They keep showing up over and over again, and having normal conversations isn't going to solve them. And so for the big deals, you're going to have some family conversations and you're going to make some family decisions about how to respond to them. For the deal breakers, that's going to be something where there's going to be some of the hard conversations and some of the harder decisions, including maybe not showing up for that family.

[Jim Daly]

Fill in the blanks for me. Give me examples of that.

[Kathy Lipp]

Well, I think that if you have family members who are disrespectful to either your husband, your kids, or somebody that you have been charged by God to protect, and you've had the conversation, you've had the conversation, and the behavior is not changing. And so I have kids who have taken different routes in life than I would have necessarily chosen for them. But we may disagree, but we still need to be respectful. And so I think that that's really important. When there's been patterns of abuse, whether it's emotional, physical, whatever that is, and it's not changing. I think that we have to draw the line there. We have families who are from different backgrounds and sometimes we've experienced racial slurs in our family. And we've addressed this several times and we've had to say we cannot be around those type of things. As Christians, we have to take a hard line to sin.

[Jim Daly]

So have courage.

[Kathy Lipp]

Have the courageous conversation first. The courageous conversation says, I love you, I want to spend time with you, but this is something that we can't partake in.

[John Fuller]

Well, you're listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and we've heard such great insight, advice and stories from Kathy Lipp and Sherry Gregory about reducing or maybe even removing drama and issues that might come up during your family gatherings.

[Jim Daly]

And I think the best news is that those gatherings don't have to be full of frustration. And that starts with us. We have to make a choice not to get wrapped up in the tense moments and to speak up with grace when the situation calls for it. And then you can concentrate on enjoying the heart of the season with your loved ones and celebrating all God has done. That sounds very blissful and joyful and this is why FOCUS on the FAMILY exists. We want to help you have the best relationships you can, whether that's with your spouse, your child, your in laws, your friends. And we have so many resources to help you do that. First, let me mention our caring Christian counseling team. You can schedule an initial consultation with them and it's absolutely free, no cost to you. They will listen to your specific situation, pray with you and give you a few tools to move forward. We also have Kathy and Sherry's great book, how to quiet the chaos and restore your sanity. These two ladies share from their hearts to help you take a step back and work through overwhelming moments. And we'd like to send you a copy of that book when you make a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family today. No amount is too small because it all goes toward the same goal, helping families. Yeah.

[John Fuller]

Donate today and request your copy of the book. Overwhelmed when you call 800, the letter A and the word family 800-232-6459 or donate and get the book online. We've got the links in the show notes. Well, happy Thanksgiving to you from all of us here at FOCUS on the Family. And join us tomorrow. We'll have a special program reflecting on the pilgrims journey to America as they sought religious freedom.

[Kathy Lipp]

This is what is sort of mind blowing to me is that they knew.

[Sherry Gregory]

That a lot of them were going to perish.

[John Fuller]

Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Jim Daly]

God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising. Com today. That's truthrising. Com.