Remembering the Pilgrims' Journey

Summary

Podcast Summary: Remembering the Pilgrims’ Journey

Podcast: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Host(s): Jim Daly, John Fuller
Guest: Jay Milbrandt (author, historian, former professor at Bethel University)
Episode Date: November 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This Thanksgiving special dives into the true story behind the Pilgrims’ journey, focusing on their quest for religious freedom, their struggles in the New World, and how their experiences shaped the American tradition of Thanksgiving. Historian and author Jay Milbrandt brings to life the Pilgrims’ motivations, challenges, and legacies, revealing both little-known history and resonant lessons for modern Christian families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real Origins of Thanksgiving

• Cultural Memory vs. Historical Truth: Jim Daly and John Fuller acknowledge how easily the holiday’s origins get lost amid football and pumpkin pie, and set out to uncover its true history.

  "We can't forget… What is the true origin of Thanksgiving?" – Jim Daly [01:47]

• Personal Connection: Jay shares his own family lore about descending from Mayflower passengers, sparking his research into the Pilgrims' motivations.

  "They weren't actually the pilgrims that came for religious purposes. One was an indentured servant, the other was the hired mercenary..." – Jay Milbrandt [03:20]

2. Pilgrims and Puritans: Identity and Motivation

• Who Were the Pilgrims? A group of Separatists wanting to worship according to biblical interpretation, outside of strict Anglican dictates.

  "They were really, more appropriately, separatists. They wanted to worship in the way that they... saw fit..." – Jay Milbrandt [04:35]

• Religious Persecution in England: Heavy-handed state church policies mandated not just worship style but attendance.

  "[The church] was a way to control people and to tax people… If you didn't follow what they mandated, there was jail time, fines, and potentially even death." – Jay Milbrandt [05:07]

• Separatists vs. Puritans:

  • Separatists (Pilgrims): Wanted to split from the Church of England.
  • Puritans: Sought to purify the Church from within.

  "The separatists were really more about separating the church and state. Puritans were really more about, oh, they can work together, but let's purify it." – Jay Milbrandt [06:50]

3. Escape and Exile in Holland – Parallels to Today

• First Escape: The Pilgrims initially fled to the Netherlands, enduring dangerous escapes and captures.
• Challenges in Holland:
  • Factory work, difficult labor, and cultural shift.
  • Worry their children would assimilate and lose their faith—a concern echoed in modern parenting.

  "They were concerned their kids were assimilating… that was more the motivation to go to North America than anything else." – Jay Milbrandt [09:54]

4. The Journey to the New World

• Numbers: Only about 100 people set out for the New World.

• **Choosing a Destination:**Considered South America, other places, but ultimately voted to take the risky voyage.

  "They knew that a lot of them were going to perish… and yet they made that decision to go." – Jay Milbrandt [11:28]

• Leadership: William Brewster and others, well-educated for their backgrounds, led the effort.

  "Brewster was among these… who had some background in leading the church... and so a handful of people that stepped up and took the reins and moved them on this journey." – Jay Milbrandt [12:20]

• Logistics and Setbacks:

  • Purchased two ships, the Speedwell (which leaked and failed) and the Mayflower.
  • Many dropped out after complications, so the Mayflower was overcrowded (about 110 people) for the crossing.

5. The Mayflower Compact – Birth of Self-Government

• Drafted at Sea:

  • Before disembarking, the Pilgrims established how to govern themselves—an early act of democracy.

  "It was really our first example of self-government." – Jay Milbrandt [16:26]

• Foundations for the Constitution:

  • Quoting John Quincy Adams, the Compact is cited as a precursor to the later U.S. Constitution’s ethos.

  "It certainly set up the ethos of that document of the Constitution." – Jay Milbrandt [17:26]

6. Survival and the Impact of Squanto

• Brutal Conditions: They arrived as winter set in, sick, low on supplies, and fearful of Native tribes.

• Squanto’s Pivotal Role: Fluent in English due to his own tragic odyssey, Squanto taught the Pilgrims survival skills.

  "If the Native peoples wouldn't have found them and befriended them, I don't think they would have survived." – Jay Milbrandt [18:54]

• Relationship with Native Peoples:

  • The relationship was complex; not all tribes were friendly, BUT the help received was critical.

7. The "First Thanksgiving" – Myth vs. Reality

• Not the Thanksgiving We Think:

  • The first gathering was a secular harvest festival, but God was still central to their gratitude.

  "It wasn't a church sponsored event per se… but it was a non religious event in and of itself." – Jay Milbrandt [21:25]

• Lesson: Their celebration invited Native friends, but they misjudged their remaining stores and nearly starved again.

• Continued Faith: Their next year's crisis prompted a true religious day of thanksgiving and prayer, which led to remarkable rainfall and a saved crop.

  "This was a religious expression… As the evening sets in, these clouds come in and it starts raining… and they have perfect weather for the rest of the season." – Jay Milbrandt [22:46]

• Evolution of the Holiday:

  • Over centuries, the harvest festival and religious Thanksgiving day merged.
  • Sarah Josepha Hale and President Lincoln shaped it into a national holiday post-Civil War.

  "Abraham Lincoln creates this national holiday in November… all these things came together and Thanksgiving gets created some 200 years later." – Jay Milbrandt [24:00]

8. What Became of Plymouth Colony?

• Rise and Decline:
  • Within 20 years, as more Puritans arrived and Boston grew, Plymouth became economically prosperous but was eventually absorbed, ceasing to be a separate colony.

  "Plymouth ended up kind of failing, which is really surprising to me… it just sort of disappeared and got absorbed into some of the others." – Jay Milbrandt [25:35]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Risk and Faith:

  "They knew that a lot of them were going to perish… and yet they made that decision to go. Sort of mind-boggling…" – Jay Milbrandt [11:28]

• On Cultural Anxiety Then and Now:

  "They were concerned their kids were assimilating… that was more the motivation to go to North America than anything else." – Jay Milbrandt [09:54]

• On Pilgrim-Native Relations:

  "If the Native peoples wouldn't have found them… I don’t think they would have survived." – Jay Milbrandt [18:54]

• On Thanksgiving’s Meaning:

  "It's about so much more… Thanksgiving is not about football and pumpkin pie." – Jim Daly [26:58]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:47: Framing the central question—true origins of Thanksgiving
• 04:35: Who the Pilgrims really were
• 05:07: Details of religious persecution in England
• 09:54: Parallels between Pilgrim and modern parenting anxieties
• 11:28: The Pilgrims’ decision-making and risk-taking
• 16:26: Creation and importance of the Mayflower Compact
• 18:54: Squanto’s intervention and the survival of the colony
• 20:17–21:25: The first “Thanksgiving” and its difference from the modern holiday
• 22:46: The religious “day of Thanksgiving” after drought and the miracle rain
• 24:00: Abraham Lincoln, Sarah Josepha Hale, and the holiday’s establishment
• 25:35: Decline and absorption of Plymouth colony

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode gently rebuffs modern myths about Thanksgiving, rooting its story in faith, risk, and perseverance. The hosts and guest maintain a conversational, accessible approach, connecting centuries-old Pilgrim anxieties about culture and children to those felt by today's Christian parents. They spotlight the Pilgrims’ courage, Squanto’s providential role, and how faith and gratitude were woven into the development of both the holiday and America’s founding documents.

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Recommended for listeners/families who want a richer, faith-filled understanding of Thanksgiving’s spiritual legacy and relevance for Christian life today.

Transcript

[A]

Kimberly struggled for 10 years in an unhappy marriage filled with conflict, addiction, and so much anger. Kimberly was ready to walk away. But God used our ministry to transform her heart.

[B]

The podcast and all the Focus on the Family resources was like the hands and feet of Jesus in that moment, in those moments, because it was like we're arguing and we don't even know how to pray. We don't know where to go in the Bible.

[A]

As Kimberly and her husband rebuilt their marriage, we were part of their healing process.

[B]

Focus on the Family was like the well of wisdom that we can always go to.

[A]

I'm Jim Daly. Every day, people reach out to Focus on the family for help with their marriages, their parenting, and their faith. In their most desperate hour, you can help deliver hope and joy to these families. Give by December 31st and your gift will be doubled. Donate today at Focusonthefamily.com family. Almighty God, we thank you for the sustaining grace of your love and provision through our Savior Jesus Christ. We thank you for the bounty of fellowship which allows us to share in the food you have given to us. May we receive it with grateful hearts.

[C]

Well, that prayer is an excerpt from Focus on the Family's radio theater episode the Legend of Squanto, which really captures the spirit and thankful heart of the pilgrims who traveled to North America. Their purpose was to begin a new colony and to escape religious persecution. And we'll talk a little bit more about that today on our show. Happy Thanksgiving and welcome to FOCUS on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller.

[A]

John, you know, it's so easy in culture to forget kind of the origins of these holidays that we celebrate. And, you know, we get busy. I'm sure many moms and dads right now are busy. Dad's got his to do list, clean up stuff before the family gets over. And, you know, the cooking the turkey and doing all those things and we can't forget. We think Thanksgiving is about football and family and pumpkin pie, and that's all good stuff. But what is the true origin of Thanksgiving? And it's going to be quite a discussion we have today when we peel back the history, the actual history of Thanksgiving and remind all of us what it was about.

[C]

And Jay Milbrant is our guest today. He's a former professor at Bethel University in Minnesota. He has a very personal interest in the Thanksgiving story and has done a lot of research on it. As you'll hear, Jay has written a book called they Came for the Forgotten Epic Adventure of the Pilgrims. And we have that for you Follow the link in the show notes.

[A]

Jay, welcome to Focus.

[B]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[A]

Yeah, what a great day to spend a little time together, remembering and giving thanks for the founding, really the beginning of the nation and what happened in that sense.

[B]

Absolutely. It's the story of where we came from.

[A]

Now, let's start there. You have a background in law, which is great, but you also have that connection of family members. What is that connection?

[B]

Well, part of our family lore was that we were the descendant of two of the Mayflower Pilgrims. And so I was pretty interested in this and, you know, kind of what does that mean for me personally? And so it took an interesting one to find out who. Who are they now? It was sort of a. Sort of a discouraging discovery after I went a little deeper, because they weren't actually the pilgrims that came for religious purposes. One was an indentured servant, the other was the hired mercenary, if you will, to protect them. And so we. Unfortunately, they weren't the ones who came on account of their own, hey, they're.

[A]

Still on the ship.

[B]

They were still on the boat. They were still on the boat, but it was still an interesting discovery. And what was that about? And really what I wanted to explore was that religious persecution question. And as a lawyer, I wanted to explore what's the evidence that that took place and what did that mean for them.

[A]

And that's what prompted you to write the book, is that it?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Just that curiosity.

[B]

That's right. And finding that, you know, as I went and wanted to learn more about my story, reading books on the history of the Pilgrims of Thanksgiving that they'd mentioned this nugget of. There was some religious freedom component to it, but everyone sort of glossed over it and never really gave it any time to explore.

[A]

Let's describe the Pilgrims. I mean, some of us, again, it's a distant memory. That's distant history. We may have learned about it in fourth or fifth grade, who knows when. Who were the Pilgrims? What was it about?

[B]

Yeah, well, they were really, more appropriately separatists. They were a group of people that wanted to worship in the way that they. They read the Bible and they saw fit, and they didn't want to worship in the way that was prescribed by the Anglican Church. So they were this group of people mostly lived in the rural English setting.

[A]

What would that prescription be? Just, again, to set that out? It was King James.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He was the one in authority. The King James Bible. King James. So what was he doing and decreeing that made them so uncomfortable.

[B]

Well, they were really using the church at that time as a way to control people and to tax people. Church services were, were in Latin. You couldn't really understand them. They had a prescribed order of service, they had prescribed prayers. Everything was prescribed and mandated. And if you didn't follow what they mandated, there was jail time, fines, seriously, and potentially even death if you didn't comply. So you had a group of people who said, we actually were reading the Bible. They got ahold of the Geneva Bible and it doesn't say what we're being told. We think that there's more to this and that there's a personal relationship here. Yeah.

[A]

And in that context, think about that. In that prescription that they were following, that the leadership of England at the time, King James, it was mandated that they go to Sunday services. It was mandated that they do certain things during the week, all with this kind of a Christian overtone. But coming from the government, that's key to understanding what the Founding Fathers were later going to do. That's the separation of church and state they're talking about.

[B]

And there was no separation. You're absolutely right. I mean, it was very heavy handed.

[A]

Right. And that's what they were getting at when they later created the Constitution. It was that the state would not tell you how to worship. That's what they're going after. But getting back to the Pilgrims, one of the things that I found fascinating that I didn't know, and we're using today as a little history lesson for all of us. Both the Pilgrims and the Puritans were on the Mayflower almost in even numbers. I can't remember exactly 35 pilgrims and 40 or 45 puritans. What is the difference in those sects? I mean, we talk about Baptists today and others, but what was their difference?

[B]

Well, the separatists, the Pilgrims wanted to separate themselves out from the Church of England, be different. The Puritans wanted to purify the Church of England. So they said, let's work within it and let's try to get the bad stuff out of this. So the Separatists were really more about separating the church and state. Puritans were really more about, oh, they can work together, but let's purify it. Now. In the end, I think there was more of a majority of the separatists and the Pilgrims. They all kind of blended together, but we definitely have these two groups and at times they were at odds because they ultimately had the same goal of worshiping in the way that they believed the Bible Taught them to worship, but they had different approaches to how to.

[A]

And that's good to know. I mean, nothing new under the sun, huh?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

It sounds very similar to what separates some Christians today. So going back to the Pilgrims, they're uncomfortable. They're getting persecuted for their practices, their religious practices. They don't immediately say, let's go to the New World. They have a different plan. What was that plan?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because I think we picture them just sort of taking off. Right. And so they tried to work within this for a while. They tried to see if they could have secret meetings and things, and those all got broken up. They were watched. And the government took a really close interest in them. So their first objective was, hey, let's actually, let's leave for mainland Europe. And Holland was a place that was more religiously tolerant. And this is one of the interesting parts of the story that's overlooked is that this was a really dangerous escape from England to Holland, that they were captured several times by the English government trying to escape. They were separated. They were a boat that almost sank in a storm, and they barely made it out. Just to Holland, to mainland Europe. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And in that context, what were they hoping to find in Holland? I know a bit more ease. But in fact, it didn't go the direction they thought it would go. What took place in Holland?

[B]

Well, they came from a rural English setting. It was very peaceful. And they came to Holland and they found this industrial center. They were working in the factories.

[A]

Shipping. It was a shipping center?

[B]

Yeah. And it was hard labor, backbreaking. So they really didn't find it was a cultural change for them, and it was difficult. So they started to worry after a while that the religious intoleration that happened in England was going to happen there. And, you know, the English government was trying to extradite some of them and putting pressure on Holland. So you had two things happening. You had this religious pressure that they saw that had taken place in England might happen here. And then also, you know, the cultural issues that they weren't able to really worship and practice in the way they wanted to without that peaceful setting. They really wanted to create their own world. Now, part of this is that their kids were starting to actually take off and become sailors themselves.

[A]

Now, I found this really interesting. I want to punch this point because in reading the book, the idea that they were concerned their kids were assimilating into the Holland culture. I mean, that is a direct parallel today, you know, where we are maybe living in a city or they go to a university and they start to move into more secular thinking. Speak to that. I mean, again, those parents of that time were experiencing similar angst that we are today.

[B]

They were. And it's interesting because they were really concerned. I think in a lot of ways that was more the motivation to go to North America than anything else.

[A]

Let's get our kids out of this mess.

[B]

That's right. Right. And there's a lot happening in Europe at that time. And they didn't quite know where it was going to go. And so there was an opportunity to go to a completely new place where they could create a distinct culture and practice in the way that they want it to. And so that's what they decided to do.

[A]

Well, as a historian, help paint the picture for me in terms of the numbers, what are we looking at here? I have no concept. Is it thousands of people, hundreds of people, dozens of people that go to Holland and now are thinking, let's go.

[B]

To the New World? Yeah, well, it's not as many as you'd think. I mean, you started with just a couple dozen that made that trip to England. They picked up a few people in Holland, a few people that came in over time, just they were there 10 years in Holland. So there were more people that came over from England. And then you have about a hundred that want to make this journey.

[A]

So you're starting with, you're talking about 100 people and then they decide we're going to do this. How did they, in fact, in historical fact, how did they go about planning the trip? What did they have to buy? How did they do it?

[B]

Well, this was really interesting to me is that they looked around the world. I mean, they didn't just say North America is our spot. They actually looked going to South America down by the Amazon because they thought, hey, warmer climate could plant crops all year.

[A]

I'm telling you, people think exactly the same, don't they? Nothing is new.

[B]

Yeah, they looked at opportunities to stay in Europe. You know, they thought about whether they could go back to England. They looked at everything and you know, eventually they got together and voted. This is what is sort of mind blowing to me is that they knew that a lot of them were going to perish. I mean, they just knew that that was the reality of the day, that this journey, that they would not all survive the journey and the process. And yet they made that decision to go sort of mind boggling, that they were willing to take that risk, that I don't know if we'd be as eager to do that today.

[A]

Now, some of the A students listening will remember that fourth grade class and William Brewster and some others that may have been distracting one another may not remember him. Talk about William Brewster. Who was he? What type of man was he? Why was he the leader who appointed him? How did he gain kind of control over the Pilgrims to give that leadership?

[B]

Yeah, well, you had several leaders who really stepped forward, and Brewster was one of them. And you had a lot of people. It was a group of people that came from a rural setting. And so there were farmers. There were a few people like Brewster who were really well read. And this is one of the things that also surprised me. It's people who studied philosophy, they studied political science, and they spent a lot of time thinking about how do we govern a group of people and how do we transition them to somewhere else. So Brewster was among these several handful of leaders who had some background in leading the church and wanted to find a way to lead the government there as well. And so a handful of people that stepped up and took the reins and moved them on this journey.

[A]

And so they're in Holland, they come back to England to pick up the ships. Speak to the. Again, the logistics. I don't feel like I got the answer. I wanted the logistics. They bought two ships.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just purchasing two ships. I mean, I didn't know that. I thought. I was under the impression that they simply paid their, you know, their fare to use the ships to get across, but they actually kind of rented the ships.

[B]

They actually bought it. And then they didn't buy the Mayflower, they bought the Speedwell. And so they bought a different ship. And that ship had a lot of.

[A]

Problems, mainly holes, right?

[B]

Yeah. It was leaking, it leaked. And to the point where they couldn't. They couldn't take. They got out halfway into the ocean and had to turn back. But so think of that.

[A]

I mean, that would be discouraging.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know how they. How they got their money back on that one, but.

[B]

Well, they didn't. They didn't. So they were taken for a ride, essentially. They were sold a boat that was improperly equipped, not seaworthy. No.

[A]

So they come back to England, then what happens?

[B]

So they. They bought. They bought the Speedwall, and then they. They also took the. The Mayflower. And so they ended up. They sailed both of them out into the ocean, came back to mainland England when the Speedwell was leaking, and they transitioned everyone to the Mayflower. Now, you had some people who decided, hey, we're not going to. We don't want to join anymore. They've been out, they've gone out.

[A]

Well, they probably were fearful. I mean, that's a big ocean. And they probably. Some may have even said, I think this is a sign from the Lord that we shouldn't do this.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Our ship is leaking. So they stayed back.

[B]

They decided to stay back.

[A]

How many stayed back?

[B]

Is there a record? We had about 40 or 50 that ended up staying back or peeling off in different ways. And, you know, someone just decided they wanted to go back to Holland, they wanted to stay in England. They had other reasons. And so then they crammed everyone into the Mayflower, which was now, you know, over full. And that was part of your problems.

[A]

And how many people would that be?

[B]

You know, about 100 and then a few sailors. So just 110 or so.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was packed. And if you get out to the east coast, you can actually board a replica of the Mayflower in, in Plymouth harbor. And it's. Can't believe that they could fit 100 people. It's not big at all.

[A]

So, Jay, they've done this. They start their journey now in the Mayflower. Describe what that journey is like from England to the New World and what were some of the things they encountered on the journey?

[B]

Well, we talked about logistics and you know, they tried to gather what they thought they need for what was intended to be a relatively short journey.

[A]

What would that be?

[B]

You could probably make it in six to eight weeks. But they ended, you know, they brought what they thought they needed, you know, some dried meat and some butter and things ended up having to sell a lot of it just to pay port fees before they left England. So it was a long journey, it was a stormy, it was tumultuous and. But thankfully it was not, you know, they didn't capsize. They didn't. It was kind of amazing that they actually survived the.

[C]

How many did survive, Jay?

[B]

I'd have to look up the numbers to give you the exact total, but they didn't lose anyone from their group. There was a sailor that passed away, that fell overboard, but the Pilgrims all made it and they actually gained. They had some children born at sea.

[A]

Oh, is that right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they arrive, you know, in that shape, not tip top shape, but they're struggling. Describe even the idea of the compact. Where was that created? Were they still at sea when they drafted the Mayflower compact? What is it? Why is it revered? What are the elements?

[B]

So you can imagine you spent four months on the ocean you want to get off this boat. And everyone wanted to go on land. First thing they do is they decide, we need to. Before we step off this boat and we step on the land, we've got to decide how we're going to govern ourselves. Which I think is a great insight here, is that they had the forethought to do this and, you know, how are we going to structure this? Who's going to lead the group? And so they created this document called the Mayflower Compact while they were on board. And it was really our first example of self government.

[A]

I think in your book you mention this John Quincy Adams, the quote by him about the compact, he said it was the first example in modern times of social compact or system of government instituted by voluntary agreement, conformably to the laws of nature, by men of equal rights and about to establish their community in a new country. So the point of that is that had a profound impact on the Founding Fathers, again, who used elements of that for the Constitution.

[B]

Absolutely. Now, several people have cited it throughout history as a precursor to our Constitution. And while we don't see it directly cited in the Constitution, it certainly set up the ethos of that document of the Constitution. And, you know, would we have had the Constitution without the Mayflower Compact? Hard to say.

[A]

Now, speak to the difficulty that they encountered. I mean, they're low on food supplies. Squanto, the Native American Indians engage describe what that was like for them. They're out there on the frontier.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Well, they come off the boat as winter's setting in and it's cold and it's icy. They're sick. I mean, they have not had nutritious food for months. And so, you know, also there was a lot of stories about the Native Americans and that they should be fearful of people and that people weren't to be trusted in North America. And they had this fear instilled in them and falsely. And so they were very afraid of what they were going to find. It was a long time before they even encountered some of the Native American groups. But eventually they did. And Squanto was one of them who found them and befriended him. And he is an interesting character in and of himself.

[A]

And what was that interaction like? Did the Native Americans actually save them, as history suggests? Did they teach them things that they needed to know to survive? And not all the tribes were their friends. They had their enemies.

[B]

They did. If the Native peoples wouldn't have found them and befriended them, I don't think they would have survived.

[A]

Think of that.

[B]

You had Squanto who's just a fascinating character in this, he had probably made four transatlantic trips by the time he met the pilgrim. So he spoke English. And that was the reason he went and met them, is that he was the only native person who had English fluency.

[A]

Think of that meeting the first time, though. I mean, how shocking that had to be to the Pilgrims.

[B]

Right? Right.

[A]

Squanto comes through the forest and says hello. And it completely, I mean, that right there is amazing. Right.

[B]

And it completely changed, you know, the preconceived notions they had of the people there, because here's someone who wanted to show them how to survive. But Squano is interesting because he had been captured on at least two occasions and taken as a slave, sold in a Spanish slave market. I mean, just a really interesting person. But this is how he learned English. And so he took them under their wing and showed them how the native peoples planted corn, how they caught fish. Things that the pilgrims probably would not have figured out on their own. And I think it would have been a hard, hard survival without him.

[A]

So they make it through. Speak to the feast. Let's get to it. The whole idea of Thanksgiving is a much later tradition, but they did celebrate that first bounty. How did they celebrate it? What did they call it? And who is there?

[B]

Yeah. So what's really interesting about Thanksgiving is we have, as our holiday looks days, we've sort of mixed up several different events that took place at that time. And when they survived their first year and they had a crop, they had a harvest festival. Now a harvest festival was. It was a secular event. It wasn't a purely religious event. It was, hey, we have food finally. Let's eat it, let's celebrate. It was a great event. They invited the native peoples who helped them survive, but they ate too much of their food and actually put themselves back into near starvation. Yeah.

[A]

I'm sure the Native Americans are saying, why are they eating everything they've grown? But they were celebrating. Let me make sure something's clear though. These are the pilgrims. I'm sure that all the thanks was given to God ahead of time.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But what you're saying in it not being a religious expression, it wasn't Thanksgiving as we know it today.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

But they would have been grateful to God. God would have been the centerpiece of all of. They were celebrating, I would think.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But it was still called a harvest celebration. I just want to make sure that's clear.

[B]

Yeah, ye. Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Because they were very religious people, very God fearing people. So that Would have been an element.

[B]

Absolutely. It wasn't a church sponsored event per se, so they absolutely would have been thankful and they gave all credit to God for getting them through and surviving. But it was a non religious event in and of itself.

[A]

Now William Bradford is a key character in this. Who is he? What's his role and what did he do?

[B]

Bradford was a young man at the start of this and he was well read. He was one of the people who helped chart the course in their government structure. And he became the governor again as a young man. He was appointed governor of this colony.

[A]

Do we have an age of that?

[B]

He was in his early 20s. Yeah.

[A]

Think of that.

[B]

Which at the time, you know, was kind of middle age given the survival. But, but he was one of the, one of our heroes of this story because he really brought the pilgrims through so many times and led them faithfully and he was a man of great faith.

[A]

So now in the last few minutes, and this has been very educational, as Gene and I were reading the book and looking through the material, there are some great nuggets in here that we don't understand, that we don't appreciate the history of. Talk about the declaration of Thanksgiving, what it has become in the modern world. Who started it? What's the history of the actual Thanksgiving celebration?

[B]

So we had that harvest festival that we talked about. Now the following year we have the. They try to. They plant crops again and the crops almost fail because of a drought. And so at about the point where they said, you know, if we get any more drought, we are probably going to, going to starve, the crops going to fail, they held a day of Thanksgiving. So they brought everyone in the colony together. This was a religious expression. So they brought everyone in the colony together for a day of prayer and petition to God for their survival. And, and as they're having this day and praying for rain, praying for rain, and they're having this day of Thanksgiving and as the evening sets in, these clouds come in and it starts raining. It's a rain that saves the crops. And they have perfect weather. This is mid July. They have perfect weather for the rest of the season. And so this was where we get the idea of Thanksgiving. Now what happens is the harvest festival about food and eating food gets combined with the day of Thanksgiving over time. And, and about 200 years later, Sarah Josepha Hale, who wrote Mary had a Little Lamb, she was the one who wrote that poem, that song, and she wrote a book about where she talked about this event, Thanksgiving that had happened in the colonies and she lived around.

[A]

The time of the Civil War.

[B]

She did. She did. This is about the time of the Civil War. And she. This is a fictionalized event in her book, but it becomes this greater idea. And so Sarah Josepha Hale starts petitioning states to make it a holiday. And she eventually gets the ear of Abraham Lincoln, who says, okay, the Civil War has just ended. We need a holiday that is unifying, that brings people together and focuses us on God and being thankful for this nation. And he loves this idea of Thanksgiving. And so we get the food, we get the thanks, the prayers to God, and they all sort of coalesce. And Abraham Lincoln creates this national holiday in November. And so it's kind of an interesting story about how, you know, all these things came together and Thanksgiving gets created some 200 years later after the Pilgrims.

[A]

And I like the fact. I mean, if you look at the inflection points of our nation, it's a good thing President Lincoln was trying to save the Union way back then. They're simply trying to survive so the Union can actually be saved later.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So these are two big inflection points. So the idea of combining these things, creating a day of Thanksgiving, it's so appropriate. Now, the other part of this, Jay, as we're ending right at the end here, the Pilgrims, they went through an economic upturn. They were able to sell their goods, but then they moved along. They went to a different part of the area, to Cape Cod. And then this is what I didn't realize. It didn't work well, and they simply disbanded.

[B]

Well, yeah, Plymouth ended up kind of failing, which is really surprising to me. And the history sort of fades off.

[A]

How many years was that? From the times that we were talking about the harvest celebration, the first crops, all the good news, and then kind of an uptick. What was that number of years?

[B]

Well, the uptick started happening in the first 20 years as more of the Puritans then started coming in from England and they established Boston. And there was a lot of economic growth in Plymouth. And then after that, the kids in Plymouth started moving away to Boston and these bigger cities, and they slowly started shrinking away. And they sort of pushed out some of the new ideas and weren't willing to adopt. And so Plymouth as a colony, fade away. And that's why we don't have a 14th colony of Plymouth. We got the 13 colonies. Plymouth wasn't one of them because it just sort of disappeared and got absorbed into some of the others. And so they took that colony and moved out further away. So they could further isolate themselves and their small group from what was happening in the rest of New England.

[A]

Well, Jay, this has been really informative, man. I'm telling you, I so appreciate the depth that you've been able to collect here in your book they Came for Freedom. Just the depth of information, new things that I never understood. And I feel I'm pretty well versed in it. So wonderful, wonderful research. Thank you for being with us. I hope and I hope everyone will pick up a copy of this. So we really do know that Thanksgiving is not about football and pumpkin pie. It's about so much more. And get a copy by writing us or calling us here at Focus on the Family. And if you can make a gift of any amount, we will say thank you by sending you a copy of J. Milbrandt's book they Came for Freedom.

[C]

Yeah. Donate and get that book at our website. And the link is in the show notes or call for details. 800 the letter A and the word family. That's 800-232-6459. Coming up next time, helping your children and even you yourself prepare for Christmas.

[B]

We can squeeze in five or 10 minutes at bedtime and be intentional to make Jesus the reason for the season. You know, to quote a cliche.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yes, you're exactly right. If we're not intentional, it's not going to happen.

[C]

Thanks for listening to FOCUS on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, once again wishing you a happy Thanksgiving and inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[A]

God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising. Com.