Exodus 14-18 Part 2 • Sister Elaine Dalton • April 13-19 • Come, Follow Me

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: followHIM – Exodus 14–18 Part 2 with Sister Elaine Dalton

Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Sister Elaine Dalton
Date: April 8, 2026
Episode Focus: Practical and spiritual lessons from Exodus 14-18, emphasizing righteous routines, sustaining leaders, personal revelation, and Christlike leadership.

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores Exodus 14–18 through heartfelt discussion with Sister Elaine Dalton, former Young Women General President. Through stories, scriptural insights, and leadership lessons, the conversation focuses on developing daily holy habits, sustaining church leaders, and building Christ-centered relationships—both personally and collectively. The hosts and Sister Dalton share their own experiences, connect scriptural themes to modern life, and emphasize the joy, unity, and light that come from consistent, faithful discipleship.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power of Holy Habits and Righteous Routines

• Holy Habits vs. Righteous Routines:

  • Sister Dalton distinguishes between “holy habits” (daily spiritual practices) and “righteous routines” (activities like regular temple attendance, weekly ministering, and listening to promptings for service).
  • Example: Making sourdough bread and letting the Spirit guide where to deliver the second loaf (00:06).

• Consistency Over Intensity:

  • Elder Neal A. Maxwell’s analogy:

    “It is steady streams that bring thick and needed crops in the agriculture of the soul. Flash floods are no substitute for regular irrigation.” (Hank quoting Maxwell, 01:00)

  • Sister Dalton reflects on how daily diligence leaves a deeper impact than intense but infrequent efforts (01:30).
  • John Bytheway compares regular scripture study to “daily bread,” emphasizing the necessity of daily spiritual nourishment (03:26).

• Brushstrokes and Pillars of Light:

  • Elder Bednar’s “brushstrokes of a painting” metaphor applied—spiritual growth comes from small, regular efforts, not grand, isolated ones (02:37).
  • John references Elder Dushku’s talk:

    “Rays of light that seem small, but together they form a pillar of light.” (03:26)

• Identity and Habits:

  • John shares: “If you want to know about me, don’t look at my goals, look at my habits… You don’t rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your habits.” (03:55)
  • Sister Dalton reiterates that habits form who we are (05:50).

---

Gathering and Sharing Light

• Personal Testimony of Spiritual Light:
  • Sister Dalton describes how prophets and righteous leaders radiate spiritual light as a result of daily righteous routines (06:02):

    “Our bodies are receptacles for light. We’re gathering more and more light… and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.”

---

Lessons from Exodus: Murmuring, Miracles, and Sustaining

• Human Nature: Testing and Complaint

  • The pattern of “murmuring—miracle—murmuring—miracle” reflects the human experience (09:46).
  • The symbolism of the rod (Word of God, shepherding, connection to God) is discussed (08:22).

• Modern Parallels to Prophet’s Role:

  • Sister Dalton: “Sometimes when a prophet speaks and teaches doctrine, a lot of times people get pretty upset… We sure have to fight that natural man.” (10:37)
  • Hank: “You can see the battle between the saint and the natural man in these chapters.” (10:57)

---

The Meaning and Weight of Sustaining Church Leaders

• Sustaining is More Than Raising a Hand:

  • Sister Dalton, John, and Hank emphasize that raising a hand in church is signifying one’s ongoing commitment to support (11:04–13:22).
  • John: “The sustaining is an ongoing thing... You signify that you will sustain them going forward.”

• Not Blind Obedience:

  • Sister Dalton:

    “Sustaining is different, isn’t it? You have a knowledge. Teneo is a Latin verb… to hold up.” (13:22)
    “A prophet needs all of our sustaining. Our prayers sustain them. Our fasting sustains them.” (13:47)

• Reflecting on the Weight of Callings:

  • Sister Dalton shares her personal experience upon being called as Young Women General President, feeling the immense responsibility and relying on the Lord and her support team (14:31).

  “As I served, I was an eyewitness to those thoughts that had come into my mind… The Lord sustains you through other people and through the revelation that He gives them as they pray.” (15:20)

---

Christlike Leadership & Delegation

• Lessons from Jethro’s Counsel:

  • Jethro counsels Moses to delegate and share the load to prevent burnout.(22:53 & 23:16).

    “You are going to wear away, and the people are going to wear away. This isn’t about you being selfish. This is about you actually caring about the people.” (Hank, 23:16)

  • Dalton: “As we delegate, we create unity… everyone grows, and everyone thrives and everyone prospers together.” (22:53–24:40)

• Principles of Effective Leadership:

  • John shares his mission president’s “Five Levels of Delegation” (25:14):
    1. Seek problems, solve them, keep it to yourself.
    2. Seek problems, solve them, report back.
    3. Seek problems, study it out, come with a recommendation.
    4. Seek problems, come to the leader and ask for direction.
    5. Leader finds the problem and tells you.
  • John: “A good leader trains leaders as he leads.” (25:14)

• Avoiding Micromanagement:

  • Leaders should seek and value counsel from others; micromanaging can be demoralizing and stifle spiritual and personal growth (31:28–32:26).
  • Dalton: “It does refine you. And you learn how to compromise. You learn how to listen. You learn how to have the spirit guide. And when the spirit guides, everything works.” (32:26)

---

Accepting Correction and Personal Growth

• Embracing Chastisement:
  • President Nelson’s advice to Dalton:

    “Never be afraid of a chastisement... a chastisement is meant to make you more pure, more refined, better at what you’re doing.” (34:51)

---

The Real Deal: Behind-the-Scenes of Prophetic Leadership

• First Presidency and Apostles:
  • Sister Dalton testifies of their congruence, humility, and spiritual sincerity.

    “They are congruent. They are the real deal... I wish every member of the church could sit in a meeting and hear prophet, seers and revelators pray for you. When you hear prophet, seers and revelators pray for the members of the church, it changes everything.” (39:33)

---

Preparing for General Conference: A Sacred Experience

• The Weight and Process of Speaking in Conference:

  • Sister Dalton describes receiving a letter—no request, just instruction to speak.
  • The preparation process is spiritually refining, often requiring deep humility and seeking the Lord’s will.

    “A lot of them would come line upon line, hard, really hard… and then others would just pour out of heaven.” (42:03)

  • The Lord often provides help during the process, and “preparation of self” is more important than “preparation of the talk.” (42:03–44:37)

• Final General Conference Words:

  • Quoted by Hank:

    "One virtuous young woman, led by the Spirit, can change the world. I testify that the Savior lives. He will be with you… His angels will be round about you to bear you up.” (44:51)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Neal A. Maxwell, via Hank:

  "Flash floods are no substitute for regular irrigation." (01:00)

• John Bytheway:

  “If you want to know about me, don't look at my goals, look at my habits. You don't rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your habits.” (03:55)

• Sister Elaine Dalton:

  "Our bodies are receptacles for light. We're gathering more and more light. And that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day." (06:02)
  “A prophet needs all of our sustaining. Our prayers sustain them. Our fasting sustains them. Pray for them every day.” (13:47)
  "Preparation of self is more important and bigger than preparation of the talk." (42:03)

• Hank Smith:

  “Maybe that ties into what you just said, Elaine, which is you're not allowing other people to serve. They're going to spiritually wear away.” (23:16)

• On Compliments and Christlike Affirmation:

  "Every time I'm with you, you give me compliment after compliment… John, don’t we see Jesus doing this? You’re going to be the rock… It’s such a profound skill.” (Hank, 35:57)

• Dalton, on giving affirmations:

  “It comes from the Lord. It comes through the spirit. As I’m prompted, I say what the Lord would want me to say. It’s his voice. Most times, it’s not mine.” (37:04)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Holy Habits and Routines: 00:06 – 05:50
• Consistency, Brushstrokes, Daily Bread: 01:00 – 04:59
• Gathering Light & Leadership Examples: 06:02 – 07:23
• Testing/Complaint and Human Nature: 08:22 – 10:57
• Sustaining Leaders—Depth and Covenant: 11:04 – 13:47
• Weight of Callings & Teamwork: 14:13 – 16:53
• Sustaining in Practice—Personal Stories: 16:56 – 18:56
• Unity in First Presidency: 19:23 – 21:13
• Jethro, Delegation, Leadership Principles: 22:53 – 25:14
• Levels of Delegation (Mission Story): 25:14 – 28:04
• Teaching Teachers & Leadership Philosophy: 28:51 – 30:02
• Council Dynamics & Avoiding Micromanagement: 31:28 – 33:31
• The Need for “Jethros” (Mentors): 33:31 – 34:37
• Chastisement as Purification: 34:51 – 35:42
• Christlike Affirmation & Compliments: 35:57 – 38:56
• The Apostles: The Real Deal: 39:01 – 41:23
• General Conference Preparation: 42:03 – 44:37
• Final Words Before Release: 44:51 – 45:28
• Episode Reflections (“What did I learn, what did I feel, what will I do?”): 46:01 – 48:06

---

Concluding Reflections

• “Everything is about the Father’s plan that we chose. It’s designed to get all of his beloved children back home again.” (Elaine Dalton, 48:36)
• Sister Dalton challenges listeners to seek Christ in all experiences, practice daily devotion, follow the prophet, rely on personal revelation, and recognize the power of covenants.

The episode closes as always with the reminder:

“Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to Him.” (50:27)

---

For Listeners:

This episode offers a powerful mix of scriptural depth, leadership wisdom, and practical encouragement for living the gospel more fully in everyday, steady ways. Sister Dalton’s insights on holy habits, the weight and beauty of sustaining callings and leaders, and the blessings of working (and growing) together in Christ are sure to inspire listeners of all backgrounds.

---

Transcript

[John]

Welcome to part two with Sister Elaine Dalton. Exodus 14:18.

[Elaine Dalton]

Now, the righteous routines, they don't differ a lot from holy habits, but I call those service Ministering, waking up in the morning and letting the Spirit tell you who needs you, where you need to be, what you need to be doing. I've learned through 2020. I learned to make sourdough bread, and it always makes two loaves. And the Lord just tells me where to take the second one. That could be a righteous routine. Another one could be temple attendance. That's not something most of us do daily, but it could be a righteous routine. You have those, Hank. And so do you, John. You've had them for a long time. I've been learning from you.

[Hank]

Well, I have a righteous routine of getting together with John, by the way, and talking about the Scriptures with someone else.

[John]

Does that count for us, Hank? When I get together with Hank and we talk Scriptures?

[Hank]

I sure hope so. Listen to this, both of you. Neal A. Maxwell. Yes. A few little flowers will spring up briefly in the dry gully through which torrents of water pass occasionally. But it is steady streams that bring thick and needed crops in the agriculture of the soul. Flash floods are no substitute for regular irrigation.

[Elaine Dalton]

Love, Neal Maxwell. Is he the best? That dailiness shows you can tell when someone has been daily diligent. Things just seep into you that you don't even realize. I'll give you an example. When I trained for a marathon, I would always listen to the talks of the prophets. I could get home from running 10 miles and not even remember what I heard. I thought. But when I was in my calling and I needed to say something that Lord wanted me to say, those things came back. Somehow your body and your mind and your spirit record the things that you do, and those daily things come back to help you bless other people. I found that over and over and over again in my calling. I'd sit in a home and see a young woman and pray and say, heavenly Father, why have you sent me here? What can I do? And it would come sometimes in the form of a sentence in a conference talk that I thought I had long forgotten.

[Hank]

Elaine, of everything you've taught us today, which has been fantastic. This may be so simple, but so, so important. Daily holy habits and righteous routines, which you said could be maybe weekly or monthly. Do you remember? Elder Bednar talked about, like the brushstrokes of a painting. It's not huge every day, it's just a brushstroke and a brushstroke.

[Elaine Dalton]

Yeah. Oh, Hank, thank You for reminding us of that. That's a great concept and that's what I'm trying to say. But you said it just now with the prophet's word.

[Hank]

He said none of them in isolation seem all that impressive. It's them all together. That's where the beauty comes from. And holy habits.

[John]

I remember Elder Alexander Dushku gave this talk about rays of light that seem small, but together they form a pillar of light. You mentioned that earlier, Elaine, about pillars of light and how they were led. This idea of daily bread I think is such a great temporal lesson with a spiritual application. Because, Hank, I don't think I have ever uttered this sentence before. You know, I don't think I've had a thing to eat since Thursday.

[Hank]

Right?

[John]

I never forget to eat. Fasting is a difficult test for me every time. I never forget to eat. But think of daily bread like scriptures that Elaine just brought up. How easy is it to forget to do that? I mean, we could binge on a whole bunch of bread on the weekend, but it doesn't work. It's like saving the manna, but eating a little bit every day. Boy, somebody beat me up with this statement. If you want to know about me, don't look at my goals, look at my habits. What you might learn by looking at my habits is that I'm a scroller. You don't rise to the level of your goals. He said, you fall to the level of your habits. If we have holy habits and righteous routines and they're consistent like Elder Maxwell, continual trickle of water. I mean, I could probably read the Book of Mormon on December 30th and 31st and get it all read in a year. But how much better to read a little bit every day, make that a holy habit?

[Hank]

Elaine, this was worth the price of admission right here, seeing this. Hey, I'm going to give you this every day. And I don't want you to store, won't store.

[Elaine Dalton]

We forget we have to keep going back the bread of life. We are just going back, keeping our covenant to always remember him. The scriptures help us do that. Daily prayer helps us do that. Maybe a righteous routine would be fasting. We don't have to do that daily, but it can be routinely, once a month.

[John]

I think our friend Brad Wilcox said fast Sunday. It's the slowest Sunday in the church.

[Elaine Dalton]

My kids say that too. This is slow Sunday fast.

[Hank]

I like that, Elaine. It becomes who you are.

[John]

That identity is from your habits, not your goals. That's a sobering self introspecting Thought right there.

[Elaine Dalton]

Well, you know, you talk about pillars of light. Our bodies are receptacles for light. We're gathering more and more light. And that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day. We are gathering his light. Then we can reflect that to others. We can share that light with others. If we haven't gathered it, we can't share it. And it grows brighter and brighter. I can testify of that. You can see it in our prophets, in our leaders. Personally, I can see it. I've worked with President Hinckley, I've worked with President Monson, President Nelson, and now President Oaks. I have seen it in every one of them. These are men that are absolutely brilliant because as they've dedicated their life to the Lord, he's just magnified them. And I can see the light emanating from them. Watch President Oaks. You will see the light that he carries. It's tangible.

[Hank]

He says this verse. This is verse 12. When you are filled with bread, ye shall know that I am the Lord your God. And then you might even add every day.

[Elaine Dalton]

Oh, I love that.

[Hank]

Not just once, but every day.

[Elaine Dalton]

That's a poster again, Hank. Then we go to the water in 17. Should we head to 17 yet?

[Hank]

Let's keep going. Is there any more murmuring?

[Elaine Dalton]

There's a tad bit more murmuring now. They get there and they're thirsty. What does Moses do? What does the Lord have Moses do? He stretches out his arm and brings water. He carries a rod. And that rod, he used that with the plagues in Egypt. He's had that all along. I've tried to figure out why. What is the rod symbolic of? Why did he carry the rod? I know we're promised in the scriptures that we will receive a scepter, an unchanging scepter of righteousness. But what is the rod symbolic of? Does anybody know?

[John]

I think Matt Bowen taught us that from the ancient language. Rod and word came from the same place. And the rod was like the word of God, which made total sense. When you think of Lehi's dream, that it was the power of God or the word of God.

[Hank]

Yeah, I think so. I remember when the Lord meets Moses, he says, you see that staff in your hand? So it's something that Moses already had. And he said, you're going to use that to show them that I am with you. Maybe it's a symbol of his connection to God.

[Elaine Dalton]

Or maybe the shepherding. Do shepherds have a rod or a staff? That the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want down in Verse six, it says, behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb, Thou shalt smite the rock. The Lord says to Moses, and there shall come water out of it, and the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. And he called the name of it, the place of it, Massah and Meribah. And that means Testing and Complaint. That was the place of testing at Massah and Complaint. Interesting, huh? There's a rock that marks that spot. But the miracle came again. The blessing came again.

[Hank]

My parents would make that the name of my childhood. Testing and complaint. I just. Doesn't this feel like the human condition? Murmuring MIRACLE MURMURING MIRACLE and honestly, I don't want to come across as, oh, I can't believe they're murmuring. When you get hungry, it's hard. When you're thirsty, that's difficult. Especially if they're out in the middle of the Jordanian desert. That's a pretty hot place to be if you've ever been out there.

[Elaine Dalton]

Oh, yeah. And to be thirsty.

[Hank]

Poor Moses. Moses says, what am I supposed to do for these people? They are almost ready to stone me

[John]

after all he's done.

[Hank]

These people, they're so hard. Lord, he's like, tell me about it.

[Elaine Dalton]

But in the latter days, are we seeing any of that? Sometimes we do see that when a prophet speaks and he eternal truth or teaches doctrine, a lot of times people get pretty upset, don't they? It's just human nature here at work. And we sure have to fight that natural man.

[Hank]

I really like that. You can see the battle between the saint and the natural man. In these chapters.

[Elaine Dalton]

We get up here where they got in a fight. Here comes Amalek again. They start to fight. In this chapter, we learn about sustaining a prophet, Aaron and Hur. When Moses grew weary, his hands went down and Israel was losing the battle. When he was sustained and they held his hands up, Israel won. We have just participated in a solemn assembly at this conference, and we have been able to do exactly what Aaron and Hur did. Sustain prophets, seers and revelators. That was just one of those memorable, most magnificent moments. We have to really go home now and say to ourselves, what does it mean to me to sustain? How will I sustain these men that I just stood in general conference and raised my hand and said I would? What does sustaining look like in my life? And what does it look like in your life, John?

[Hank]

Do you remember when Dr. Cottle was here, Mike, and he said, as teachers, we need to Echo prophetic messages, amplify. I hear them and then I repeat them. That's gotta be part of sustaining. I would think.

[John]

When I was a bishop, I was kind of a stickler. I was probably kind of annoying for the exact wording of sustaining somebody. Because sometimes we might think, oh, we're gonna sustain somebody. That means we raise hand. No, that is signifying that you will sustain them going forward. The sustaining may come many times by, as you pointed out, Elaine, coming home and not murmuring about this person or this leader. But the sustaining is an ongoing thing. And the only thing you're doing is signifying that you will sustain that person. I think it's called the covenant of common consent, when you put it that way. A little more weight to it. We don't sustain people by raising our hand. We signify that we will sustain them going forward. That's what I'm trying to say, John.

[Elaine Dalton]

When someone says, you just are following blindly. This is blind obedience. Sustaining is different, isn't it? You have a knowledge. Teneo is a Latin verb, so sustainable. Tain this. Teneo is to hold up. Is to hold up. Almost literally what Aaron Hur did for Moses.

[John]

Yeah. Holding up his hands.

[Elaine Dalton]

President Oaks talked about the mantle again. This was at the BYU talk. When the mantle of a prophet of God comes, it's a heavy weight. A prophet needs all of our sustaining. Our prayers sustain them. Our fasting sustains them. Pray for them every day. They're such wonderful men.

[John]

I think everyone listening can think of the weight of a calling they have or may have had. What is it like to have the weight of the young women of the church on your shoulders? I felt weight of small callings. But what is that like?

[Elaine Dalton]

I didn't feel it come upon me until I walked out of President Monson's office. I was elated and humbled. And I actually went to the temple and asked the Lord to help me. Because I knew he called me not to be the general young woman president for the Young women of the Church. He called me to be the leader for the young women of the world. That was the part that was just like, what is that? I pled with the Lord that somehow he would help me. And this is the answer that I got. I will call the elect of the elect to serve with you. And every leader will sustain and help you accomplish what I want accomplished. As I served. I was an eyewitness to those thoughts that had come into my mind. Sometimes I'd go into an area in the church in a foreign country Even. And the young women leaders were already doing what we were planning in Salt Lake to do. Two or three months later, they had already done it. And I'd say to them, where did you get this thought? They were like, oh, we prayed. We got inspiration. I really witnessed that. The Lord sustains you through other people and through the revelation that he gives them as they pray. And what was so outstanding, and I know this happens to everyone, is the young women leaders, myself, the young women and their mothers and parents, we were a team. I could feel that teamwork. We were all working for the same thing. And it was quite remarkable. That lifts that burden when you know the Lord is walking with you, but not only just you, but everyone that has that calling and that responsibility. And it's quite remarkable, actually. Now, giving a conference talk is a whole other thing. And someday we'll talk about that.

[Hank]

Elaine, I think that's one of the reasons my wife Sarah feels a bond with you, because when you were the young women general president, my wife was a ward Young women president with, get this, 60 young women.

[Elaine Dalton]

That's like Moses leading the children of Israel right there.

[Hank]

I remember the weight of that. The young women's president is a very heavy calling. I've spoken in stakes that didn't have 60 young women in the stake. I think part of making her burden light was sustaining you. Does that make sense?

[Elaine Dalton]

Yes, it makes all the sense in the world because I could feel it. She was in my prayers. I can tell every young woman leader that served during that time with me, they weren't just called, they were chosen.

[Hank]

She does feel that special bond. And I think sustaining does bond us to our leaders. It's not just blind obedience. This is us praying for supporting, echoing their messages. John, I remember you telling me this is back when you didn't get emotional all the time. I remember you telling me the first time you saw all those hands go up who can sustain our new bishop. I remember you told me that was a moment.

[John]

It was. The first moment was when my counselors accepted. I felt a little bit of then when I saw the ward, then I was just gone. You know, maybe that's why I really wanted to. Now, what exactly did that mean when you raised your hand just then? You can go home and throw stones at me like Exodus 17:4. That's maybe why that meant a lot to me. And I also think that I suddenly had more empathy for every other person who had ever served in that position. I knew that sometimes they couldn't say everything that they knew about what was happening. And I just thought, just gonna sustain and try to hold off on the murmuring because I don't know everything everybody's dealing with.

[Hank]

Elaine, I'm wondering how you saw that with the first presidency. Here you have a prophet, seer and revelator who holds all the keys and can exercise them. And he has two counselors. With you there in those years, you would have seen President Monson as a counselor. You would have seen President Uchtdorf as a counselor. President Eyring, of course, as a counselor. What is that like?

[Elaine Dalton]

It's a sight that one of them makes up for the other one. Does that make any sense? Together they're this unified force, and they're unified in what they know the Lord wants. I've not ever seen anything like it. I've been in board meetings. You don't see that kind of unity before. I haven't seen it before. They're each different. They come at it from different viewpoints. They share their unique experience. But when they do that, the combination of the whole is the right thing. It's astounding to sit in the room and actually be an eyewitness to revelation, to witness prophets, seers and revelators. Speaking of sitting in the room, it just came back to my mind. And of solemn assemblies. I was sustained in a solemn assembly because President Monson, when he called me, he had just become the prophet, but he hadn't been sustained in conference yet. In the April conference, that solemn assembly took place then. I will never forget the sight that I saw sitting on the stand in general conference as the men rose and they raised their hands, these mighty men. It was. See, John, I'm getting emotional, but it was really something to experience. And we've just been able to do it again. Aren't we blessed?

[Hank]

Yeah. Elaine, why I love what we've been doing today so much, is I can do what we've been talking about today, like the moment we end this recording. I can go out and do these things. I could get into it, practice a holy habit, a righteous routine. I can sustain my leaders.

[Elaine Dalton]

And we can work on those Christlike attributes that we've learned about here, that constancy, that forgiveness, that love that we feel. In fact, the ending of this chapter 17 is so neat because it says in verse 15, and Moses built an altar and called the name of it Jehovah Nissi. That means the Lord is my banner. Don't you love that? The Lord is my banner. It's exactly what President Oaks is teaching us now. Every single Talk he's given. He. He said, remember, Jesus Christ is the way. In other words, the Lord is my banner. I love that ending to this chapter. For our last chapter, this is chapter 18. Jethro comes to Moses and he brings Moses wife and sons. That's a joyful time. But then Jethro, his father in law, also counsels him. He sees what he's doing and he's saying, what thou doest, be sustained. You cannot do this for all of these people. He's trying to do this all alone. And so Jethro gives him the counsel that he needs to have others help him. I know that personally. You know that everyone who served in a calling knows you cannot do it all alone, nor do you want to. Because the blessings that come to the people who participate and help you, you wouldn't want to deny them the opportunity to have those blessings. I think it works two ways. This is a good principle of delegation, I think, as we delegate, we create unity. We create this esprit de corps, you might call it, that everyone grows and everyone thrives and everyone prospers together. That's what happens from the top down in the church, isn't it?

[Hank]

We may get the idea that to be righteous or to be faithful in my calling means that I give and I give and I give. I do things myself. That's the wise thing to do. But you really have to listen to Jethro here. You are going to wear away, and the people are going to wear away. This isn't about you being selfish. This is about you actually caring about the people. Because when a bishop or a stake president or a young women president or an elders quorum president or Relief Society president, if they carry this by themselves thinking, oh, I'm doing the right thing, not only are you going to wear away, but the group you are trying to serve will also wear away. Maybe that ties into what you just said, Elaine, which is you're not allowing other people to serve. They're going to spiritually wear away.

[Elaine Dalton]

Yeah, it's that don't stand still. The people you serve can't stand still. We've got to all be involved in this. There's so much power in that. It's a huge leadership principle. Books and books have been written about it. Sometimes our human nature is to want to do it all ourselves so it'll be done right. Well, no, we want to do it with everyone else so they will be blessed. That's the whole idea. It's not about the job. It's about the people. And the blessings that they'll receive.

[Hank]

I bet you experience that in the councils of the church. One person not saying, I'm running this whole show.

[Elaine Dalton]

You go to those councils and you fast and you pray and you're prepared spiritually. You're also prepared intellectually, and you offer your thoughts, your feelings. I loved seeing that happen. Everything congealing into one hole. That was so much better than anyone could have ever imagined. That's a great principle of leadership as well, that counseling together.

[John]

I had just a remarkable mission president. I hope he's listening. President Menlo Smith. He used to say, a good leader trains leaders as he leads. One time I was with my companion, Elder Broderick from Orem. Phil Broderick, and something happened. And we said to the mission president, hey, this just happened. What should we do? This makes me laugh because President Smith was so great, so experienced CEO, he says, get your companion and get in here. He said, elder, by the way, you want to get ahead in business and in life. Solve your boss's problems. Then he said, let me teach you the five levels of delegation. Number one, seek problems, solve them. Keep it to yourself. He said, more, not there yet. I don't want you to do that. Number two, seek problems, solve them. Report back. He said, we're not there yet either. Level three, he said, seek problems. Study it out in your mind. Come up with a recommendation and give me your best one. Now, who gets all the benefit from that? I would. Nelder Broderick would. He said, Level 4, seek problems. Come to me and say, what do we do? That's what you just did. He said, maybe there's a fifth level. I find out about the problem and come to you. He said, I want you to start thinking that way and try to help me think like he would think. What would President Smith say? What would he do? In this case? Totally growing. Wonderful experience. Thank you, President Smith. We only met at a certain time. He didn't want people coming in with every time there was a problem. At that point, okay, President, this happened. This happened, this happened. Here's what we recommend. Here's what we recommend. Here's what we recommend. I got the benefit from doing the thinking, and I'm happy to report Hank in the lane. He eventually moved me up to level one, where I could seek problems, solve them, and keep it to myself. Now, before the era of cell phones, President Smith went to Singapore for Mission Presidents Conference. Elder Broderick and I had to run the mission for two weeks. We had a huge problem. Come up with the Manila mtc. And I can still remember this posture, my fists in my temples going, what would president do? But because of months of training of don't come with a problem, come with a solution. Thank you, President Smith, because when I was a bishop, guess what? I taught in ward council once.

[Hank]

The five levels of delegation.

[Elaine Dalton]

Thank you for teaching us that. That is such a good principle.

[Hank]

Elaine, I'd like to ask you about this because if you've somehow walked out of President Monson's office and thought you needed to meet with every young woman in the world, you would wear away and the young woman as well. Jethro says, find able men, in your case, women who fear God, who love truth, who don't covet. Place them and let them rule over these people or teach these people. If they need you, they can come to you. They can take care of small things and you can take care of big thing. You almost become a teacher of teachers.

[Elaine Dalton]

I viewed my job as building and lifting the young women leaders. And if they were built and lifted, they would do the same. It just starts at the top, down. I did, however, have a personal touch with the young women as well. President Monson asked me to do that. When I traveled to these countries, I would meet with groups of young women. I'd go to their homes, those that needed it. It really is. You're responsible for teaching the teachers, training the leaders. And it works because then they keep passing that down till it gets to the young women and we're all better off.

[Hank]

And even the young women then are being trained.

[Elaine Dalton]

I like to think of it as being a general. A general is responsible primarily for the welfare of his troops. If you can remember that. If you're a mission president and you say, well, my first responsibility is the welfare of my troops, my missionaries, and then go from there. It works a lot better than saying, my responsibility is to have baptisms. No, it's all about people.

[John]

Imagine this principle with the brother of Jared coming to the Lord and saying, but what do we do for light? And what does the Lord say? Go solve your boss's problems. The Lord is not stumped. He just says, go figure it out. Come up with a recommendation and bring it to me. And he did it. To be honest, President Smith read the Book of Mormon, not a member of the church at the time, and one of the stories that impressed him so much was the way the Lord dealt with the brother Jared because of his delegating philosophy.

[Hank]

I have a question for both of you. I don't know if we see and hear I have found in my experience in the church that occasionally a leader will appoint people to teach, but then will still try to do the job themselves. I want you guys to bring me a recommendation or I want you to do something, and then they end up just changing it anyway. And that can be very deflating for someone, perhaps a Relief Society president, to put together this solution, like you say, John, only to have the bishop change it, or for the young women president, or for the elders quorum, whoever it is, the primary. What would you both say to have your leader then? Is it called micromanaging, or is it saying, yes, I want you to be the leader, but no, really, I'm going to still make all the decisions. Am I hitting something? I feel like I've heard this from friends and family.

[Elaine Dalton]

You've hit something that a lot of people feel that perhaps the council's held, but the solution's already been decided upon, then they don't feel heard at all. It is so important that that not be the case, because at least I found I could not come up with the great answers that a whole group of women could. It was very exciting, very invigorating. Have you seen that in your leadership as well?

[Hank]

Absolutely. It seems like everybody has a piece of the revelation and we're putting a puzzle together again.

[Elaine Dalton]

We're all growing together. We're all having this united feeling. You don't want to have a council where it's already been decided. That's not just deflating, but it's kind of like makes you want to quit.

[John]

Well, Ben, what's the point of me being here?

[Hank]

You're just going to change it anyway, right? Yeah.

[John]

Yeah.

[Elaine Dalton]

But on the other hand, I think, too, we can't go into a council with the solution all thought up in our head that we think is right, and then get angry because it's not the one that the group comes up with. It's just a cooperative, refining way to work with people. It really is. And it does refine you. And you learn how to compromise. You learn how to listen. You learn how to have the spirit guide. And when the spirit guides, everything works.

[Hank]

That's beautiful. I remember Sister Roberto came here a couple of years ago and told us something very similar. She said, I wouldn't get emotionally attached to my idea. It was like the law of consecration. Once I put it on the table, it's no longer mine.

[Elaine Dalton]

It's true. Oh, that's so good, you know, because you do go home and you pray about it, and you receive revelation, you receive inspiration. But don't assume that that's the solution. It might be a part. The Lord always has bigger and better things in mind.

[Hank]

Do either of you have Jethros in your life that are willing to come to you and say, the thing that thou doest is not good. This is not gonna work. You're gonna get worn out. I think I've had good Jethros in my life who have come to me and said, I don't know if you're seeing this, but you need to learn to delegate.

[John]

I think an easier course is just to let you crash and burn. But if somebody really loves you, they might be willing to say, you're doing something that's hurting you and the people. That's harder work, but that's more loving than, oh, you're great just the way you are.

[Hank]

You're doing fine. You're going to wear out in about three months.

[John]

So I'm glad you put it that way, Hank. I'm thankful for the Jethros in my life that have said, john, you're doing this and it's hurting you and you don't even know it. I mean, I'm so thankful for. For that. Probably just because I said that a bunch more Jethros will come out of the woodwork right now.

[Hank]

And I think Jethro does have a place. He's not just one of the people. He's been put in Moses life as his father in law, one of his counselors. I don't know if I would walk up to my bishop and say, the thing that thou doest is not good.

[Elaine Dalton]

I learned a great principle from President Nelson, who, at the time I was young women president, was my priesthood advisor. He said to me, elaine, never be afraid of a chastisement.

[John]

And I was like, are they coming?

[Elaine Dalton]

Yeah. Did I just get one? Never be afraid of a chastisement. And then he gave me the etymology of the word chastise. Part of it is being chaste or pure. A chastisement is meant to make you more pure, more refined, better at what you're doing. After he told me that, I'd go into his office and I'd say, okay, I need my chastisement. Sometimes I'd get it. That's a good way to think about that too.

[Hank]

I've got to write that down.

[John]

So you're saying that President Nelson was interested in word etymologies?

[Hank]

Yeah. It's shocking. Yes.

[Elaine Dalton]

Yes, he was.

[Hank]

Elaine, I have a personal question for you. I have known you as a church leader, and then I had the Blessing of getting to know you as an individual. It's been wonderful. Every time I'm with you, you give me compliment after compliment after compliment. I remember the first time I met you, I think in person, you said, I know who you are. You are a defender of virtue. I remember you saying that, yes, I am. Right. Like, wow. Every time I've said something here you've said that is profound, has that been something that you were taught? Or is that just something that comes naturally to you? Because I think it's such a profound skill. John, don't we see Jesus doing this? You're going to be the rock. You're the sons of thunder.

[John]

You're the sons of thunder.

[Hank]

He says, they are my apostles. In his prayer, he says, my apostles, they're just like me. We are not of this world, are we? Yeah, we're just the same. Is that something that you learned from parents? Where did that come from?

[Elaine Dalton]

It comes from the Lord. It comes through the spirit. As I'm prompted, I say what the Lord would want me to say. It's his voice. Most times it's not mine. So you can know that he loves you and he's reaching out to you. And he just uses people, sometimes me, sometimes others, to point out what a magnificent, noble, gifted disciple of Christ you are. It doesn't come from me at all. And I didn't learn it. Sometimes I'll say things and not even think about it. And then I'll have a young woman or someone come up to me five years later and say, you said this, and I never forgot it. And it shaped my identity and who I am. But it wasn't me. It was the Lord using me as an instrument. So, Hank, you're beloved. And so are you, John, to this

[Hank]

day, I know who you are. You are a defender of virtue. That had to be 12 years ago. I can remember it like it was yesterday. I remember where I was.

[Elaine Dalton]

Isn't that crazy? But see, that's because it wasn't me. It's really important that I point that out. Although I have learned from you two, from so long before I ever met you, I personally admire you so much. You are the real deal. You are Covenant men, Covenant leaders. I've learned so much from you. Now, that's coming from Elaine Dalton. But these other things, really, they come from the Lord.

[Hank]

That's very kind. That made me feel really good. And she still does it to this day. Elaine is our bit of a church celebrity. But she makes you feel like a celebrity. She really does.

[Elaine Dalton]

I keep Saying, I'm not a celebrity, I'm a servant.

[Hank]

Yeah.

[Elaine Dalton]

That's who I am.

[Hank]

I like that. Elaine, very few people are going to have the opportunity that you had to sit amongst the councils of the church with the apostles in the First Presidency. In your experience, are they the people we hope they are? We see them every six months at General Conference, occasionally on social media, but you were able to see them in meetings. Long, stressful meetings. Are they who we hope they are?

[Elaine Dalton]

Yes, absolutely. They are congruent. They are the real deal. In fact, I wish everyone could sit in a meeting with them. But more than that, I wish every member of the church could sit in a meeting and hear prophet seers and revelators pray for you. When you hear prophet seers and revelators pray for the members of the church, it changes everything. I wish with all my heart everyone could experience what I did. It was such a privilege. You are so beloved. Every one of us is. And they pray for us. Sometimes I just say a prayer. Help me feel their prayers. Help me know what they're praying for me to do. And again, it goes right back to this sustaining. As we sustain them, the Lord sustains us. And it is a wonderful, virtuous cycle that we get into. They are more than we think they are. You don't get to see them except maybe at the pulpit, giving a talk, teaching doctrine. But the personal side, the real deal, I've been able to witness, and I'll. They're precious, just precious. We have some perceptions of some that are stern and they're not. They're just like the Savior. They are. This recent calling of Clark Gilbert, have you marveled at him? He is just like the Savior. He's a great leader. They're the real deal. I can testify of that.

[Hank]

I haven't done the research on this, but you may be the woman who has spoken in General Conference the most. If not, it's got to be close. I think it was 16 talks in general conference between 2003 and 2013. Not very many of us are going to have the opportunity to speak in General Conference. John might. I know. I will not. I remember Love her mother. I remember Return to Virtue. Could you tell us about preparing and then speaking in General Conference? And then we'll wrap this up. We'll wrap up our episode.

[Elaine Dalton]

Okay. I'll make it quick because it's the most excruciating spiritual refining process I've ever experienced. You get a letter. It says, dear Elaine, you will be speaking in General Conference.

[Hank]

Not a request.

[Elaine Dalton]

You've already accepted. You picked up one end of the stick, so you pick up the other, and it says, you will have 12 minutes and you will follow so. And so may you be blessed by the Lord in your preparation. Sincerely your brethren. And then it's hand signed by the three members of the First Presidency. After you get over that and sit and cry for a few minutes, then you start thinking about, what would the Lord have me say? Your first inclination, at least mine was, was to just give this most intelligent, masterful talk of all time with all the vocabulary words I could ever say. That's not how it works. It's not your talk. What he does is he uses your unique life experiences to teach and testify about him. Once I learned that, then the talks became easier. A lot of them would come line upon line, hard, really hard. In the middle of the night. A lot of those lines would come, and then others would just pour out of heaven. They'd just pour. I couldn't write fast enough. Someone told me that those were just talks that I had prepared in the premortal existence that were just given to me. I don't know how that works. Once you get that all down, then you have to time it as you're timing it. You're cutting, cutting, cutting. And by the time I would get to the point where it was the right amount of time, I didn't even recognize my talk. Most times I would wonder if it would even make sense to anyone who heard it. That's when the Lord steps in and makes everything work. It's really a privilege to be a part of that, to stand at that sacred pulpit and stand as a witness of God at all times and on all things and in all places. I'm just so grateful I had that opportunity. Preparation of self is more important and bigger than preparation of the talk. You really have to do a lot of spiritual work to get yourself in a place where you can hear the Lord's voice. It's not easy. It's hard, but it's wonderful.

[Hank]

I'm sure you remember this, but I think it would be fun for our listeners to hear. Here is the last two paragraphs that President Dalton shared before she was released.

[Elaine Dalton]

Young women generations are depending on the choices you make, your purity and your worthy lives. Be not moved. You have a great destiny before you. This is your moment. And I truly believe that one virtuous young woman, led by the Spirit can change the world. I testify that the Savior lives. He will be with you. He will enable you. And in difficult moments his angels will be round about you to bear you up.

[Hank]

What a beautiful message.

[Elaine Dalton]

Oh, I had forgotten that. It's because that's what he did for me. And he'll do it for every one of us. That's the good news. Thank you for that reminder, Hank. So sweet, Elaine.

[Hank]

I hate that our time together is about up. I remember when we started, you said, what did I learn? What did I feel? And what am I going to do? Can we finish there? How do you hope our listeners answer those questions today?

[Elaine Dalton]

The answers will be individual because I know as I read these chapters, praying before, I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about the Savior. I learned that this is a story of identity. It's a story of faith versus fear. It's a story of revelation. It's a story of redemption. God will always provide a way. He will always provide a way. It's a story of receiving all the manna and things of that sort. It's a story of relentless pursuit. I think it's a story of radical reorientation. God wants for us a radical reorientation of our selfish and prideful impulses and the eviction of the natural man for us to go and sin no more as he's promised us. It's a profound group of chapters, I believe now. What did I learn personally? I'm going to. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to reveal myself to all of you. I learned not to murmur anymore. I learned to follow the prophet in everything he asks. I learned to do everything I can to have the gift of the Holy Ghost so I can be guided by personal revelation. And I learned that covenants. The Lord makes and keeps his covenants and that they are vital for us to get through in this world. This covenant path is huge. I relearned the importance of just being daily. Just daily devotion, daily righteous routines and holy habits. Those are my learnings. Now what am I going to do about it? A lot. But the big thing I'm going to do is I'm going to start looking for Christ in all of my experiences and in all I do and recognizing him.

[Hank]

Beautiful. John, do you ever wonder, how did I get here? How am I sitting here having a conversation with Elaine Dalton and having these incredible listeners that we have who listen every week, who are so supportive and think that we're doing a great job, Right? People come up to me, hey, thank you.

[John]

Mostly I sit there.

[Hank]

Yeah. Mostly I just listen like you, Layne. Thank you.

[Elaine Dalton]

Oh, thank you. If there's anything I want everybody to remember, it's that everything is about the father's plan that we chose. It's designed to get all of his beloved children back home again. That's what it's all about. But you two, thank you so much. You're doing so much good in the world. So much good. For me, it's a privilege and an honor to be with you both.

[John]

Well, thank you.

[Hank]

It's honestly a joy. Elaine says, oh, Hank, John, you're the real deal. Elaine Dalton is the real deal. Isn't she, John? She's as wonderful as you hope she is.

[John]

That's right.

[Hank]

Yeah, she's.

[Elaine Dalton]

Thank you.

[Hank]

With that, we want to thank Sister Elaine Dalton for her time with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorenson, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. And every episode, we remember our founder. He was a defender of virtue, Steve Sorenson. We hope you'll join us next week. We're going to continue in the book of Exodus on Follow Him. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we'd love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit Follow Him Co. That's followhim co to download your free copy today and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our Follow him family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwica, Sydney Smith and Annabelle Sorenson. Whatever questions or problems you have, the

[John]

answer is always found in the life

[Hank]

and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him.

[Elaine Dalton]

Follow Him.