followHIM Podcast: Doctrine & Covenants 102-105 Part 2

Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Dr. Matthew Godfrey
Date: September 10, 2025
Episode Theme: Lessons from Zion’s Camp and the Doctrine of Expectation, Patience, Stewardship, and the Fulfillment of God’s Promises

Episode Overview

This episode explores Doctrine and Covenants sections 102–105, focusing particularly on the story and meaning of Zion’s Camp, the Lord’s promises versus expectations, stewardship and sacrifice in the early church, and the learning that comes through tribulation. Dr. Matthew Godfrey brings in historical context while Hank and John emphasize application to modern life, especially around personal growth, patience, and the value of adversity. They also discuss the practical realities faced by early saints in finance, unity, and leadership development.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lord’s Promises and Human Expectations

• Scripture Context: D&C 103:6-7 promises saints will "prevail against [their] enemies from this very hour," yet church history shows successive expulsions (Jackson County, Missouri, Nauvoo, etc.).
• Interpretation: Dr. Godfrey explains that "prevailing" did not mean the absence of setbacks, but rather, the church was never destroyed and continued to grow.
  • Quote:

    “You could look at that and say, well, how do they begin to prevail against their enemies? ...The church continues to grow, would continue to fill its mission of preaching the gospel... Even though there have been periodic setbacks, the church continues to grow.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [00:52]

• Modern Application: Hank relates this to how people interpret blessings and promises, including patriarchal blessings, urging patience and openness to alternative fulfillments of those promises.
  • Quote:

    “One, be patient and two, be open to other... avenues where that might be. Those promises... the Lord says, I did fulfill those.”
    —Hank [05:00]

• Memorable Analogy: Hank jokes about expecting "prosper in the land" to mean a new Ford F150, but suggests God defines prosperity as progress toward becoming like Him.

2. The Role of Patience and Perspective in Spiritual Growth

• Scripture Link: D&C 103:12—“after much tribulation cometh the blessing.”
• Historical Example: Zion’s Camp members faced hardship (40 miles a day, little food/water, death from cholera), but later spoke of God's presence through those trials.
• Notable Quote:

  “It was in the journey. It was in the tribulation that they came to that realization [of God’s love].”
  —Dr. Godfrey [09:16]

• Parallel: Joseph of Egypt’s long tribulation and delayed blessings.
  • Quote:

    “Sometimes the tribulation prepares me to become the person that will recognize and accept that blessing when it comes.”
    —Hank [10:43]

• Modern Leadership Story: President Uchtdorf’s fighter pilot training—blessings came “years later,” not in the moment.
  • Quote:

    “God's promises are not always fulfilled as quickly as or in the way we might hope.”
    —Hank (sharing Uchtdorf’s story) [07:44]

3. Stewardship, Sacrifice, and Women’s Contributions

• Context: D&C 103:22-23 directs gathering funds and people for Zion's Camp.
• Spotlight Story: The Bostonite, Mary (Polly) Vose, a single woman who donated $150—half the total funds gathered for Zion’s Camp.
  • Quote:

    “Half of it came from Poly Vose. I like to consider Polly as a wise woman, one of these people that the Lord was talking about in verse 23.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [17:31]

• Lesson on Stewardship: D&C 104 deals with dividing assets from the United Firm and encourages reflection on modern-day stewardships—both temporal and spiritual.
  • Personal Anecdote: Dr. Godfrey shares a story of a seminary teacher who believed his efforts with a struggling student were fruitless until he was called upon to comfort the boy after his mother's death—a lesson in unseen impact.
  • Quote:

    “That is a great lesson of a stewardship, of someone really trying to fulfill that stewardship, doing so in a way that blessed someone's life, even if it seemed like he hadn't made much headway.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [26:46]

4. The Challenge of Finances and Unity in Early Church

• Historical Background: The United Firm oversaw the church’s early financial and charitable ventures but faced severe debts due to land loss in Missouri and building projects in Kirtland.
• Scriptural Connection: D&C 104 formalizes dissolving the United Firm, assigning stewardships, and enabling Joseph to lead Zion’s Camp.
• Spiritual Reflection: Church members, like modern members, struggled with debt, stewardship, and economic anxiety.
  • Quote:

    “The Lord's people always have to deal with their own finances and debt. And the church too... because we live on planet Earth.”
    —John [22:00]

5. The Reality and Purpose of Zion’s Camp

• Mismatched Expectations: Language in D&C 103 led some to expect a military victory, but Joseph Smith intended a peaceful appeal to governmental authority.
• Hardships: The march was grueling, with hunger, exhaustion, and dissension (notably from Sylvester Smith).
  • Quote:

    “If he just had had a Snickers bar along the way, then he would have been better.”
    —Dr. Godfrey (joking about Sylvester Smith’s complaints) [39:31]

• Divine Intervention: Storm at Fishing River prevents mob attack, seen as miraculous.
  • Quote & Scene:

    “There’s a reminiscence that talks about Joseph saying God is in this storm.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [44:07]

• Outcome & Disappointment: The government refuses help; camp is disbanded after a revelation (D&C 105).
• Lesson from the Lord: The failure to redeem Zion is attributed to lack of unity, incomplete willingness, and unfulfilled sacrifice.
  • Quote:

    “You didn’t support this expedition... monetarily or with your time.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [46:00]

6. Transformative Power of Faithful Effort (Even When Outcomes Differ)

• Was Zion’s Camp a Failure?: Though it did not achieve the stated goal, it spiritually transformed participants and formed future leadership—8 of the first 12 Apostles and all the first 70 served with Joseph on Zion’s Camp.
  • Brigham Young’s Reflection:

    “I would not exchange this knowledge I have received this season for the whole of Geauga County... property and mines of wealth are not to be compared to the worth of knowledge.”
    —Brigham Young, quoted by Dr. Godfrey [54:24]

  • Wilford Woodruff’s Reflection:

    “I saw the dealings of God with [Joseph]. I saw the power of God with him... what was manifest was of great value to me...”
    —Dr. Godfrey [56:28]

  • John’s Summary:

    “Zion’s Camp revealed the character... who’s willing to step it up, as will the next service project in your ward.”
    —John [61:03]

• Finding God's Hand in the Process
  • Modern Analogue: Dr. Godfrey shares his own mission experience, initially feeling it was unsuccessful, before grasping the real growth and success was personal transformation and spiritual commitment.
    • “My mission definitely was a success for me...what the gospel meant to me and my own commitment...”
      —Dr. Godfrey [61:32]

7. Application: Bridging Zion’s Camp to Today’s Personal Trials

• Reflection for Listeners:
  • Adjust expectations and seek God's hand in unanticipated outcomes.
  • Spiritual growth often happens in the trial, not necessarily at the finish line.
  • Shift from "Why not as I expected?" to "What did God want me to learn or become?"
  • Quote:

    “…Maybe what was God trying to teach me here? When we do that, then these moments in our lives that we think of as tribulation… we can see more as a blessing.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [67:17]

• Classic Quotes:
  • Orson F. Whitney (read by Hank):

    “No pain that we suffer, no trial that we experience is wasted. It ministers to our education, to the development of such qualities as patience, faith, fortitude, humility...” [69:45]

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• The Church’s Resilience

  • “It looks to me like their enemies were prevailing... was the church ever destroyed by its enemies? No, it’s not. In fact, it continues to grow and prosper despite its enemies.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [01:15]

• On Patience & Redefining Prosperity

  • “To [the Lord], prosper probably means you’re going to become more like me... and that takes a lot of growth and difficulty. And I’m thinking, no, no, no. Prosper means I get that 2025 Ford F150.”
    —Hank [04:27]

• Blessings After Tribulation

  • “It is in the tribulation that they came to that realization... that God was with us. This is where I really came to know how much God loved me.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [09:50]

• The Humility of Service

  • “It’s the willingness to do things... it’s when the blessings can come, both in our lives and in the lives of those that we minister to.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [27:01]

• Zion’s Camp: A Training Ground

  • “Zion’s Camp was instrumental in forming the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and the Seventy.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [60:03]

• Expectation vs. Reality—God’s Plan

  • “There’s a lot to be said for not allowing our own expectations to come in the way of our spiritual growth.”
    —Dr. Godfrey [67:17]

• On Becoming, Not Just Doing

  • “It’s not just what we know, it’s not even what we do. It’s what we are becoming. Becoming lifelong disciples of Christ. That’s the goal.”
    —John [70:30]

Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00]–[05:43] – Reconciling D&C Promises and Real History/Personal Blessings
• [05:43]–[13:22] – Patience, Tribulation, and Modern Parallels (Uchtdorf, Joseph of Egypt)
• [13:22]–[17:37] – Funding Zion’s Camp / Women’s Sacrifice (Mary “Polly” Vose)
• [17:46]–[23:00] – The United Firm and the Church’s Financial Struggles
• [23:00]–[29:24] – Stewardship, Unseen Service, and Personal Callings
• [33:34]–[44:19] – Zion’s Camp Story: Hardships, Miracles, “God is in this storm”
• [46:00]–[53:07] – Transgression, Unity, Why Zion's Camp “failed” and what participants learned
• [53:57]–[60:39] – Outcome: Leadership Developed in Zion’s Camp, Future Church Impact
• [67:17]–[70:45] – Bridging to Modern Struggles: How to See the Lord’s Hand in Unexpected Ways

Final Takeaways

• The Lord’s promises may be fulfilled in different ways and on different timelines than expected, but they are always fulfilled.
• The hardships and “failures” of Zion’s Camp ultimately prepared the next generation of church leadership and brought great spiritual growth.
• Willingness and faith amidst adversity, not just the outcome, are what the Lord values.
• Every member has a stewardship and unseen impact through effort and faithfulness.
• Personal adversity can and often does lead to profound spiritual discovery and character development.

For further study, consider reviewing D&C sections 102–105, accounts of Zion’s Camp, and modern talks on patience and the purposes of trials.