followHIM Podcast Summary

Episode: Doctrine & Covenants 111-114, Part 1 (Come, Follow Me)
Host(s): Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Dr. Susan Easton Black
Release Date: October 1, 2025
Sections Discussed: D&C 111–114

Overview of Episode Theme

This episode explores Doctrine & Covenants Sections 111–114, set during a turbulent time just after the Kirtland Temple dedication. The hosts and Dr. Susan Easton Black delve into the Saints' financial woes, internal conflict—especially within church leadership—and provide biographical context for key figures such as Joseph Smith and Thomas B. Marsh. Throughout, they draw parallels to modern faith challenges, explore the Lord's counsel during adversity, and emphasize the humanity and personal growth of early Church leaders. The tone is engaging, supportive, honest, and sometimes humorous.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: After Kirtland Temple’s Highs

• After Spiritual Highs, Come Hard Trials:

  • The Saints descend from the spiritual peak of the temple dedication into intense opposition—financial crisis, leadership conflict, and personal doubts.
  • Dr. Black draws a parallel to Moses: “Moses has this incredible experience with the Lord. And then ... Satan came tempting him. … This darkness follows.” (04:39)

• Faith in the Face of Adversity:

  • The hosts reference D&C 112’s counsel: “purify your hearts before me. Rebel not. Gird up thy loins for the work, and be thou humble… As we follow this counsel, the Lord will lead us by the hand through adversity and into healing and peace.” (09:16)

2. D&C 111: Salem, Finances & Unexpected Treasures

(10:07 – 24:07)

• Background on Salem:

  • Salem’s witch trial legacy is discussed (11:00), setting a scene for Joseph Smith's unusual journey there.

• Why Was Joseph There?

  • Church finances were dire: outstanding debts from temple construction and ongoing assistance to the Saints in Missouri.
  • Jonathan Burgess’s Proposal: Told Joseph of rumored buried treasure in Salem.

• Humanity of Joseph’s Decision:

  • The hosts candidly discuss risky ideas we all have, likening Joseph’s gamble to speculative investments.
  • “It’s okay even though not the best idea. But let's turn this into something useful.” (17:40, Hank Smith)
  • The Lord’s tone: “I, the Lord your God, am not displeased with your coming this journey. … Notwithstanding your follies…” (16:36, loosely paraphrased and discussed)
  • Key Verse: "I will order all things for your good as fast as you're able to receive them." (20:23)

• What Was the Real Treasure?

  • Dr. Black: “People are the treasures. … Sometimes we look beyond the mark. We don't realize the greatness in the individuals that we actually interact with.” (18:59)
  • Genealogy records and future conversions in Salem ended up as lasting blessings.

3. Kirtland Safety Society & the “Lost Year”

(26:18 – 45:49)

• A Difficult Year:

  • Church went almost a year without published revelation. Joseph Smith was burdened by failing efforts to solve the church’s financial crisis.
  • The Kirtland Safety Society: attempted as a bank, failed amidst widespread economic collapse in the U.S.: “Paper money was only as good as the principals of the bank.” (42:48, Dr. Black).

• Personal Impact:

  • The sense of betrayal among friends when mutual investments failed; the beginnings of the “Kirtland Apostasy,” severe division, and loss of confidence even among apostles.

• Modern Banking Parallels:

  • Hank and John explain historical banking for today’s listeners, referencing “It’s a Wonderful Life.”

4. Apostolic Crisis & The Kirtland Apostasy

(46:06 – 41:15)

• Apostasy Among Leaders:

  • Notable apostles (John Boynton, Luke & Lyman Johnson, William McLellin) and members lost faith. Many left, some returned, some did not.
  • Dr. Black dives into their backgrounds and what led to their departures—a combination of financial loss, dashed expectations, and shifting allegiances.
  • Memorable moment: “No quorum in the church was entirely exempt from the influence of those false spirits who are striving against me for the mastery.” – Joseph Smith (30:48)

• Importance of Remembering Spiritual Experiences:

  • “For some of us, it’s because we don’t write down our spiritual experiences … becomes something where you say, well, here’s what I remember, but it’s last out there somewhere.” (32:04, Dr. Black)

• Decision Points:

  • Dr. Black: “This is a decision point for so many…less than 50% chance you’re going to hang in there unless you do make those choices. If you look at the early saints, isn’t that something?” (41:19)

5. Triumph Amidst Struggle: British Missionary Miracle

(46:24 – 49:52)

• Sending Heber C. Kimball to England (1837):

  • Despite turmoil, Joseph Smith receives revelation to send Kimball and others to England—seemingly counterintuitive in crisis.
  • The mission’s fruit: Over 1,500 converts in a year; by Nauvoo’s peak, a quarter of its population was British.

• Lord’s Perspective:

  • John: “Here’s the Lord with the big picture, ordering all things for them…” (49:52)

6. D&C 112: Thomas B. Marsh & Lessons in Humility

(50:23 – End)

• Who is Thomas B. Marsh?

  • Earliest president of the Quorum of the Twelve; deeply faithful beginnings.
  • His Downfall:
    • Over a small dispute—“the cheese story”—between his wife and a neighbor, escalated into church courts.
    • Marsh sided with his wife against Joseph Smith, which contributed to anti-Church action (the Missouri Extermination Order).
    • Dr. Black: “It’s so simple. It should have been neighbors sitting down, talking. … But Mrs. Marsh, she's holding back a pint of the strippings...” (50:34)

• Humility and Returning:

  • Thomas B. Marsh’s heartbreaking, humble letter during his return process:
    • “I see. The Lord could get along very well without me. And he has lost nothing by my falling out of the ranks. But, oh, what have I lost? … Can you speak one word of comfort to me? Can I be saved at all … ?” (58:23 – 61:17, read by John)
    • He was rebaptized and finished his days in Utah, but never regained church leadership.

• Lessons in Humility:

  • Dr. Black: “Your humility comes in the home. If you can be, you can own what they think of you in the home. It can ground you better.” (57:52)
  • John Bytheway connects to Moses' realization: “Man is nothing. Which thing I never had supposed.” (58:23)
  • Key Verse: “Be thou humble, and the Lord thy God shall lead thee by the hand…” (57:09)

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Susan Easton Black (on Salem):
  “What the Lord is saying is that people are the treasures. … Sometimes we look beyond the mark.” (18:59)
• Hank Smith:
  “It’s okay even though not the best idea. But let's turn this into something useful.” (17:40)
• John Bytheway (listening to the Lord’s gentle correction):
  “I’m not displeased with you, notwithstanding your follies. … Maybe I can turn this for some good.” (16:36)
• Dr. Black (on humility):
  “Your humility comes in the home. ... If you can own what they think of you in the home, it can ground you better.” (57:52)
• Thomas B. Marsh's letter (read by John):
  “But, O brethren, can you speak one word of comfort to me? Can I be saved at all in the kingdom of God, can I find peace among you?...” (58:23)
• Susan Easton Black (on Brigham Young’s acceptance of Marsh):
  “When he did come to Utah... Brigham asks Thomas to speak and Thomas speaks. And then Brigham says, 'truly, it is you.'” (61:20)

Notable Biographical Insights

• John F. Boynton: The only college graduate in the early quorum, famed scientist/inventor, ultimately left the Church after financial loss, gave public lectures at Brigham Young’s invitation but did not return to the faith. (32:04–36:00)
• The Johnsons: Wealthy, fell away after their fortunes were lost, some returned later; Luke Johnson became a bishop and sheriff in Tooele after return. (36:00–38:00; 62:07)
• Heber C. Kimball: His willingness to go on the British mission at the lowest point produced a windfall of converts saving the young church. (46:24–49:52)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:39 – Post-Kirtland Temple emotional contrast / Moses parallel
• 10:07 – Section 111: Salem’s background & Joseph’s journey
• 16:36 – God's gentle correction, folly, and learning
• 18:59 – Treasures are people, not riches
• 26:18 – Kirtland Safety Society: Dream and failure
• 30:48 – Joseph Smith’s view on internal conflict and false spirits
• 32:04 – Fall of early apostles; remembering spiritual roots
• 41:19 – The statistical reality of apostasy after Kirtland
• 46:24 – Heber C. Kimball’s call to England & results
• 50:23 – Thomas B. Marsh’s story, the “cheese dispute”
• 57:09 – “Be thou humble…”: lessons in humility
• 58:23 – Marsh’s humble letter and return
• 61:20 – Brigham Young and Marsh’s reunion

Tone and Style

• Conversational, approachable, and full of personal anecdotes.
• Empathetic to doubts and struggles, candid about leaders’ humanity.
• Encouraging personal application: finding humility, recognizing God’s ordering of our lives, and the possibility of return after mistakes.

Conclusion

This episode offers a nuanced, compassionate look at a pivotal year for early Latter-day Saints, relating ancient struggles to modern faith journeys. Through engaging historical insight and personal reflection, the hosts and Dr. Black draw lessons on humility, perseverance, and the Lord’s patient guidance—even amidst our follies and failures.