Podcast Summary

Podcast: followHIM
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Episode: Doctrine & Covenants 133-134 Part 1 • Bro. Alvin Jackson • November 17-23 • Come Follow Me
Guest: Brother Alvin Jackson
Release Date: November 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on Doctrine & Covenants Sections 133 and 134, exploring themes of the Second Coming, the gathering of Israel, the relationship between the restored gospel and the founding of America, and the role of agency in God's plan. Brother Alvin Jackson—a stake president, former state senator, and church history enthusiast—joins hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway for a discussion both scripturally rich and grounded in real-world experiences.

Key Insights & Discussion Points

1. Background and Context of Sections 133 & 134

• Section 133 was initially intended as the appendix to the Book of Commandments—a rousing message about fleeing Babylon, building Zion, and heralding the Second Coming.
• Section 134 addresses the role of governments, honoring and obeying the law, and the inspired nature of the Constitution.

Memorable Quote:
"[Section 133] warns of a coming day of judgment and repeats the call found throughout modern Revelation. Flee worldliness as symbolized by Babylon. Build Zion. Prepare for the second coming and spread this message unto every nation and kindred and tongue and people."
— Hank Smith, [08:30]

2. Urgency of the Gathering and the Second Coming

• The urgency in Section 133 is underscored throughout the discussion, with references to preparation, sanctification, and leaving 'Babylon' (worldliness) for 'Zion' (holiness).
• The gathering is framed as the most important work on earth, a theme President Nelson has emphasized:
  "The gathering is the most important work taking place on the earth today. Nothing else compares in magnitude. Nothing else compares in importance."
  — Alvin Jackson quoting President Nelson, [15:01]

Scriptural Cross-References:

• Multiple connections are drawn between D&C 133, Malachi 3:1, Revelation 18:4, and the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25).

3. Separation of Babylon and Zion: Living in a Divided World

• Latter-day Saints are called to separate from Babylon and to enter into covenant, purposeful living.
• Modern Babylon is identified as not just a location, but a set of behaviors—particularly as manifest on social media and online discourse.

Memorable Quote:
"Let us once and for all establish our residence in Zion and give up the summer cottage in Babylon."
— Quoting Elder Neal A. Maxwell, referenced by Hank Smith, [23:16]

• The importance of being 'peacekeepers,' rising above online contention, and letting fruits (actions) speak louder than words.

4. Agency, Freedom, and the Founding of America

• Brother Jackson reflects personally on how joining the Church transformed his view of America's founding, seeing the Constitution and founders as inspired (D&C 98; 101).
• He emphasizes the relationship between agency and the gospel—the Restoration could only come forth in an environment of freedom.

Notable Story:
"Before I joined the church in 1994, I used to think that the establishment of this country wasn't for us... And then when I joined the church, my eyes were open as I'm reading Doctrine and Covenants 98 and Section 101, where the Lord specifically highlights that he raised up these wise men for a specific purpose and that our founding documents are inspired."
— Alvin Jackson, [03:03, elaborated at 46:28]

Discussion of Agency:

• The war in heaven (and mortal life) centers around the use and protection of agency.
• Agency is contrasted with Satan’s desire to destroy it; everything that limits agency—addiction, compulsion, unrighteous dominion—is part of his plan.

Memorable Quote:
"The gospel of freedom goes hand in hand with the gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't think you can have one without the other."
— Alvin Jackson, [49:30]

5. The Messenger, Moroni, and American Destiny

• Discussion on scripture’s ‘messenger’ figure, connecting John the Baptist, Moroni, and others as preparatory agents for Christ.
• Orson Hyde’s view (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6) is read: that Moroni not only brought the Book of Mormon but also aided in key events like the Revolutionary War and the discovery and settling of America.
• The group reflects on angel Moroni’s symbolism atop the DC temple, holding both the trumpet and the plates.

Quote:
"This same angel was with Columbus and gave him deep impressions by dreams ... under the guardianship of the same angel ... have in the United States grown, increased and flourished like the sturdy oak by the rivers of water."
— Orson Hyde (read by Alvin Jackson), [33:13]

6. Symbolism of the 144,000, Marking, and Allegiance

• The 144,000 in D&C 133 and Revelation symbolize those “with the Father's name written in their foreheads”—the saved, covenant-keeping community.
• Discussion includes the symbolic (rather than literal numerical) meaning and the ancient practice of sealing or branding as a mark of ownership.

Memorable Quote:
"You can be branded a slave by Babylon or anointed a king by God."
— Hank Smith, [40:13]

• John Bytheway shares a personal anecdote about reaching out to Elder Jeffrey R. Holland to verify a popular quote about the final victory being certain and our personal need to choose sides.

Notable Quote (with permission from Elder Holland):
"The future of this world has long been declared. The final outcome between good and evil is already known... The only really strange thing in all of this is that we are still down here on the field trying to decide which team's jersey we want to wear."
— Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, relayed by John Bytheway, [44:06]

7. Biblical Allusions and Prophetic Symbolism

• The episode highlights how every verse in Section 133 echoes or references the Bible—especially Revelation and Zechariah, intensifying the unity of scriptural witness about the Second Coming and gathering.
• Discussion about the earth’s division (Genesis 10:25), Peleg, and the latter-day reunification (“the earth shall be like it was as in the days before it was divided,” D&C 133:24) both literally and symbolically—unity after division.

Memorable Interchange:
Hank: "I think of the fall—that there was unity on the earth. Then there's this dramatic fall. It's just division. Satan rules by division. The Lord is begging his people to be one."
— [60:47]

8. Personal Testimony, Conversion, and the Role of Knowledge

• Brother Jackson testifies to the ‘living water’ he experienced coming into the gospel—moving from religious tradition to revelatory engagement ("drinking from a firehose").
• The hosts emphasize the irreplaceable value of regular scripture study and modern revelation, including Come, Follow Me and conference talks.

Memorable Quote:
"When you do [read scriptures], your mind's just enlightened. And what I love...these footnotes are gold."
— Alvin Jackson, [64:53]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Alvin Jackson: "President Nelson says, 'The gathering is the most important work taking place on the earth today. Nothing else compares in magnitude.'" [15:01]
• Hank Smith: "Let us once and for all establish our residence in Zion and give up the summer cottage in Babylon." [23:16]
• Alvin Jackson: "The gospel of freedom goes hand in hand with the gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't think you can have one without the other." [49:30]
• Elder Jeffrey R. Holland (via John Bytheway): "The only really strange thing in all of this is that we are still down here on the field trying to decide which team's jersey we want to wear." [44:06]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 03:03 | Brother Jackson shares his change in perspective on America's founding after joining the Church | | 15:01 | President Nelson’s teaching on the gathering as the most important work | | 23:16 | Discussion on Maxwell’s “summer cottage in Babylon” and application to modern discipleship | | 40:13 | Symbolism of the 144,000 and true allegiance—Babylon vs. Zion | | 44:06 | John Bytheway relays Elder Holland’s quote about the certainty of the Lord’s victory | | 46:28 | Brother Jackson connects the Restoration, agency, and the inspired founding of America | | 64:53 | The value of scripture study, conference talks, and inspired cross-referencing |

Tone and Language

The conversation is reverent, enthusiastic, intellectually curious, and personal. Brother Jackson brings earnest testimony and historical insights; the hosts are warm, encouraging, and at times humorous, making scriptural application both accessible and deeply meaningful.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode offers a blend of historical context, scriptural analysis, personal testimony, and actionable insights regarding the restoration, the importance of agency, the urgency of gathering, and the scriptural call to "come out of Babylon" and build Zion. Listeners will find wisdom on both personal discipleship and the larger story of the Lord’s church and covenant promises.

Stay Tuned

Part 2 Teaser:
“We don’t need sob stories or empathy for injuries you didn’t endure. We endured them. So move forward.”
— Alvin Jackson, [70:28]