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Episode: Doctrine & Covenants 137-138 Part 1

Guests: Dr. Lori Wilkinson
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Date: November 26, 2025
Scripture Focus: Doctrine & Covenants 137–138; First Epistle of Peter

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the historical, doctrinal, and personal significance of Doctrine & Covenants (D&C) sections 137 and 138—two revelations bridging nearly 80 years, with deep relevance for questions about life after death and God’s mercy. Drawing on her work as a historian and lived experience as a Relief Society president, Dr. Lori Wilkinson discusses how these sections offer "lively hope" and comfort to those grieving the loss of loved ones or concerned about family who have strayed from the gospel path. The panel also traces the development (and loss) of the doctrine of salvation for the dead over Christian history and shares poignant stories from Latter-day Saint women. Throughout, the conversation highlights the healing power of restored doctrine, empathy, and spiritual companionship across the veil.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Unique Context of D&C 137 & 138

• Historical Gap: These two sections are almost 80 years apart—a unique distance in D&C chronology.
  (05:10)
• Thematic Unity: Both address questions about the fate of the dead and God’s merciful plan.
• Section Origins:
  • D&C 137 from Joseph Smith’s 1836 Kirtland Temple vision.
  • D&C 138 from Joseph F. Smith’s 1918 vision in Salt Lake City.

Ministering as Relief Society President: Modern Parallels (06:30)

• Concerns of Today’s LDS Women:

  • Loneliness, the heartache of "wayward" children, and mourning recent deaths are common themes.
  • These ancient revelations deeply resonate with current emotional realities.

  “The number one thing I hear is loneliness. Next... concern for loved ones or children who are making decisions that are really taking them away from the gospel. And it weighs heavy on them.”
  — Dr. Lori Wilkinson (07:25)

• Personal Comfort through Study:

  • Reading and sharing these sections has brought comfort both to Dr. Wilkinson and the women she ministers to.

The Power of “Lively Hope” (10:50)

• First Epistle of Peter:

  • Offers “a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”, tying ancient and modern revelation together.
  • The phrase “lively hope” recurs throughout the episode as a theme for Christian resilience and optimism.

  “What a blessing that Joseph Smith restores this knowledge that Peter had and Paul had. Then adds to it. And Joseph F. Smith... will add even more to this idea of a lively hope and an incorruptible inheritance.”
  — Dr. Lori Wilkinson (11:48)

• Mourning with Hope:

  “We mourn the loss, but we do not mourn as those without hope.”
  — Hank Smith, paraphrasing Joseph Smith (12:13)

Historical Context: Death and Loss in the 19th Century (19:49)

• Death was omnipresent; high infant and child mortality.

• Stories of early LDS leaders—Joseph and Emma Smith, Emmeline B. Wells, Susie Young Gates—spotlight frequent, devastating loss.

• These experiences made the doctrines of salvation for the dead and the fate of children profoundly relevant and healing.

  “Talk about broken hearts. That’s a lot of loss.”
  — Dr. Lori Wilkinson (21:52)

Doctrinal Restoration: Salvation for the Dead

• Ancient Roots:

  • 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Peter 3–4 reference work for the dead and resurrection.
  • The practice disappears by the Middle Ages due to theological shifts (notably Augustine and Calvin), resulting in the belief that “death is the deadline.”

  “Somehow death became the deadline.”
  — Hank Smith (37:11)

• Restored Doctrine:

  • D&C 137 reassures:
    • Those who would have accepted the gospel are heirs of the celestial kingdom (v.7–9).
    • All children who die before accountability are saved (v.10).

  “For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.”
  — D&C 137:9, read by Hank Smith (38:01)

• Mercy Over Membership:

  “It’s not about who has your membership record, it’s about who has your heart.”
  — Stephen Robinson, quoted by Hank Smith (44:03)

Comfort for Today: Ministering and Hope (45:18)

• The message for those grieving:

  • God looks at the heart; His plan is one of inclusion and mercy.
  • Care, empathy, and “being with” those grieving matter deeply.

  “The impression that comes to mind over and over again is, my dear daughter, I love you... I do think they need to understand these two sections.”
  — Dr. Lori Wilkinson (45:33)

• Temple Work and Women’s Blessings:

  • Susie Young Gates extolled the restoration as opening heaven’s gates to women and children, promising the continuation of family ties.

  “When death comes... Mormon women know that in the life after death, all friendships, family ties and tender affections will continue as they were upon this earth.”
  — Susie Young Gates, quoted by Dr. Lori Wilkinson (50:10)

Memorable Personal and Historical Stories

• Minerva Teichert’s “Not Alone” painting:

  • A symbol for unseen spiritual companionship across the veil. (58:15)

• Mary Fielding Smith’s Widowhood:

  • Inspiring resilience after Hyrum’s imprisonment and death.
  • Letter describing a “full and glorious hope,” even while deeply afflicted. (58:15–60:00)

• Personal Angelic Interventions:

  • Dr. Wilkinson’s profound experience of feeling guardian angels and prayers during a lonely COVID hospitalization.

  “I knew I was not alone. I knew there were guardian angels somewhere... And in an instant, it calmed me from my head to my toes.”
  — Dr. Lori Wilkinson (67:00)

• S. Michael Wilcox’s Sunset Story:

  • After his wife’s passing, the Spirit assured him: “With every sunset, you’re one day closer together. You’ll never be as far apart as you were the day she passed away...” (51:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Universal Mercy:

  “Heavenly Father’s plan is not a plan to keep people out. This is a plan to bring people home.”
  — Elder Patrick Kearon, paraphrased by John (42:21)

• On the Distance Between Mortality and Eternity:

  “These two sections almost shorten the distance between us and them.”
  — Hank Smith (47:38)

• On Angels’ Interest:

  “God lives and, and his eyes are over us and his angels are round and about us. They are more interested in us than we are in ourselves... 10,000 times, but we do not know it.”
  — President John Taylor, quoted by John (54:32)

Important Timestamps

• 00:02 — Dr. Wilkinson shares childhood anxiety; comfort in God knowing our hearts.
• 06:30 — Contextual introduction to D&C 137–138 and present-day ministering experience.
• 10:50 — Discussion of “lively hope” in 1 Peter.
• 19:49 — Historical realities of child and family losses in Joseph Smith’s era.
• 28:11 — Reading and unpacking D&C 137:1–6.
• 31:55 — Connections to Paul’s and Peter’s teachings on resurrection and salvation for the dead.
• 37:11 — “Death becomes the deadline”—historical doctrinal shifts.
• 38:01 — Key verses: D&C 137:7–10 (universal mercy, salvation for unbaptized and children).
• 44:03 — “It’s about who has your heart,” not your membership record.
• 50:10 — Susie Young Gates on women, family, and afterlife.
• 51:02 — S. Michael Wilcox’s sunset allegory (“one day closer together”).
• 58:15 — Minerva Teichert’s “Not Alone” painting, Mary Fielding Smith’s resilience.
• 67:00 — Dr. Wilkinson’s COVID hospitalization: feeling angelic presence.

Tone & Takeaways

The tone is warm, empathetic, faith-filled, and scholarly. The hosts and Dr. Wilkinson share deep doctrine, historical research, personal and collective sorrow—and especially, hope. They remind listeners of God’s supreme mercy, the comforting embrace of restored doctrine, the continuity of family, and the Heaven-sent assurance that none are truly alone.

Final thought:

“In some of our scariest alone moments... I was not alone. We really are not alone. We have our ancestors that have gone before. I really full-heartedly believe guardian angels are watching over us. And I felt that that day.”
— Dr. Lori Wilkinson (67:00)

Want to Hear More?

Part 2 continues with Section 138, further stories from LDS women’s history, and the lived relevance of these revelations.