Podcast Summary: followHIM—Doctrine & Covenants 137–138 Part 2 with Dr. Lori Wilkinson
Aired: November 26, 2025

Overview

This episode of the followHIM podcast hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway in conversation with Dr. Lori Wilkinson. Together, they explore Doctrine and Covenants Sections 137 and 138, focusing on Joseph F. Smith’s revelatory vision of the redemption of the dead. The discussion delves into themes of loss, hope beyond the grave, the context of World War I and the Spanish flu, and the critical roles of women, especially Eve and her daughters, in God’s plan. Deep historical context and personal stories enrich the insights on revelation, family concern, and intergenerational faith.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Joseph F. Smith, Loss, and Historical Trauma

• Dr. Wilkinson sets the vision in 1918, following the death of Joseph F. Smith’s son, Hyrum, and amidst Joseph F. Smith’s own ill health. This was a time marked by immense personal and global loss—World War I and the Spanish flu pandemic.
• She quotes Joseph F. Smith’s anguish at the loss of his son:

  “My soul is rent asunder. My heart is broken and flutters for life. Oh, my sweet son, My joy, my hope. And now what can I do? Oh, what can I do? My soul is rent. My heart is broken. Oh, God, help me.” —[00:42]

• The historical climate amplified themes of death and hope, with the Relief Society speaking of “every atom of reserve power” being called upon by members.

  “More deaths have resulted in Utah and the United States from the latter-day plague than has resulted from the war. The future holds much constructive and reconstructive labor for us. There is strength in struggle and joy in toil with infinite spiritual hope smiling at us from the promising face of the new year.” —[06:43]

2. Pondering, Suffering, and a Pattern for Revelation

• Joseph F. Smith found meaning in suffering through pondering the Atonement and turning to scripture; revelation came in moments of solitude and deep thought.
• Dr. Wilkinson sees in 138:1–5 a model for seeking inspiration—intentional quiet, reflection, and scriptural immersion.
• Notable quote by Hank referencing Dr. Rosalind Welch:

  “The text is a springboard. It's a place that I can go to meet the Lord. I can ask him my questions there. He can answer them on any topic. Using the medium of the text as a way to open my mind, touch my heart and to convey ideas to me.” —[15:01]

3. The Vision’s Content: Mercy, Opportunity & Hope for All

• Joseph F. Smith’s vision (D&C 138) offered comfort by revealing the comprehensive plan for the salvation of the dead, including those who had not accepted the gospel in mortality.
• Dr. Wilkinson emphasizes the merciful approach of God:

  “Could anything be more tender than those of you who chose me not? I'm sending the great and mighty noble ones to bring you back.” —[24:33]

• She addresses the parental agony and guilt over children outside the faith:

  “There is something prepared for those you love most...I am sending the best of the best to go retrieve your loved ones.” —[26:35]

• The discussion extols the hope and comfort for parents, especially mothers, who worry about “wayward” children. Smith’s vision is a call to love unconditionally and trust in divine preparations.

4. Organization in the Spirit World & the Role of Noble Men and Women

• The Savior organized righteous messengers, both men and women, to preach to the dead.
• Dr. Wilkinson underscores the inclusion of women, particularly Eve and her daughters, among the “great and mighty” (D&C 138:38–39), giving evidence of their authority in the spirit world.

  “Eve also was given power and authority because he clearly says his forces were clothed with power and authority and that Eve and these faithful daughters had that power and authority and are among the great and mighty noble ones.” —[28:44]

• She shares Latter-day Saint women's writings about a “chain of enlightened women,” highlighting their sense of legacy and calling, drawing deep connections between historical Relief Society leaders, scriptural women, and modern female disciples.

5. Restoring Eve’s Legacy and Women's Place in the Plan

• The episode strongly asserts the restored view of Eve as wise, courageous, and central to God’s plan, contrasting it with centuries of negative interpretation.
• Dr. Wilkinson and the hosts cite LDS women’s writings and President Nelson:

  “Women have been at the center of our heavenly Father's plan from the beginning. God's plan of salvation was dependent upon the heroic actions of two valiant women. Eve, the mother of all living, and Mary, the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (President Nelson, paraphrased by Dr. Wilkinson) —[47:55]

• They note the global and spiritual significance of genealogy/temple work as a clarion call for women—bridge-building across generations, both on earth and in the spirit world.

6. Personal Stories of Conversion and Genealogical Rescue

• Dr. Wilkinson shares her husband’s conversion story as evidence that faithful ancestors and “the best troops”—on both sides of the veil—work for the salvation of souls, even across generations.

  “We have mighty forces among us on this side of the veil. And those mighty forces went and rescued my husband. ... He didn't know how to pray. ... But that spirit of Elijah, I believe it is, all of that zoomed down on him.” —[31:13]

• She stresses that love, patience, and trust in the Lord’s plan are vital for families navigating faith and loss.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If the people of Noah's time are among the ones that are being taught, doesn't that give us hope for our loved ones that might seem far, far off of the path?” —Dr. Wilkinson [16:57]
• “Do not fear, my children. I just sent the most amazing, well trained, best organized, best equipped, smartest, sharpest, most loyal, amazing humans to live on this earth to save your loved ones.” —Dr. Wilkinson [29:40]
• “You cannot look at your loved ones that have gone away as a disappointment. Show them the love that their heavenly parents have for them, that their heavenly father has for them.” —Dr. Wilkinson [35:41]
• “Who threw Eve under the bus and who took her out and put her on a throne? It's right here.” —John Bytheway [58:24]
• “The gospel reaches across the street, across the world, across the veil.” —John Bytheway [66:50]

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [00:08–02:34]: Joseph F. Smith’s personal suffering and the context of World War I & Spanish flu
• [13:44–15:50]: The pattern of pondering and revelation in D&C 138:1–10
• [16:46–26:14]: The scope of redemption in the spirit world—God’s organized, merciful rescue of all his children
• [27:44–39:14]: The inclusion and authority of Eve and her daughters, discussion of LDS women’s writings
• [47:55–49:19]: President Nelson on Eve and Christ, re-examining Eve’s legacy
• [56:14–61:05]: Suzie Young Gates' response, call to genealogical action, women’s role in the work for the dead
• [61:05–62:55]: D&C 138:53–60; vision’s conclusion—personal responsibility and temple work
• [62:55–66:50]: Final reflections, testimonies, and encouragement for listeners

Actionable Takeaways ("Therefore, What?")

• Seek Sacred Quiet: Revelation flows in moments of calm pondering and scriptural engagement.
• Trust in God’s Plan for Loved Ones: There is a merciful system for redeeming all, even those who wander far.
• Love without Fear: Let love and hope for wandering children and relatives replace fear and disappointment.
• Honor Women’s Roles: Recognize the parallel power, authority, and calling of women—especially in genealogical and temple work.
• Embrace Genealogy & Temple Work: Engage in family and temple work as an act of faith, healing, and connection across generations.

Tone & Style

The discussion is warm, personal, and faith-filled, with a strong undercurrent of historical curiosity and practical encouragement. Dr. Wilkinson shares scholarship, lived experience, and deep empathy for parents and women, keeping the conversation engaging and accessible for all listeners.

Summary prepared for listeners who want a thorough, engaging recap that captures both the doctrine and heartfelt counsel of the hosts and guest.