Podcast Summary: followHIM Episode - Doctrine & Covenants 85-87 Part 1 with Prof. Robert Freeman

Release Date: July 30, 2025

Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Professor Robert Freeman

1. Introduction

In this deeply insightful episode of the followHIM podcast, hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway delve into Doctrine & Covenants sections 85 through 87, engaging in a profound discussion about war, the law of consecration, and their implications for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joined by Professor Robert Freeman, a seasoned expert in church history and the experiences of Latter-day Saints during wartime, the conversation promises to enrich listeners' understanding of these pivotal scriptures.

Notable Quote:
Hank Smith [01:29]: "John, when you think post section 76 everything has changed now. We've talked about that for the last couple of weeks. We get into these sections and one is about war. It's such a fascinating topic. What comes to mind as you were."

2. Guest Introduction and Historical Context

Professor Robert Freeman brings a wealth of knowledge to the discussion, sharing his extensive research on "Saints at War" and his personal connections with notable church figures. Hank and John recount their longstanding friendship with Freeman, highlighting his academic contributions and personal experiences that uniquely position him to shed light on the intersection of faith and military service.

Notable Quote:
Robert Freeman [07:53]: "I think I first met Bob and we shook hands. We were having some of our early counselor meetings at the Riviera Apartments."

Freeman elaborates on his journey, from his missionary service in the Philippines to his academic pursuits, culminating in his role as a faculty member at BYU's Department of Church History and Doctrine since 1996. His dedication to studying the impact of war on Latter-day Saints underscores the episode's central themes.

3. Exploring Doctrine & Covenants Section 85: The Law of Consecration

Section 85 addresses the implementation of the law of consecration within the early church, emphasizing communal living and the dedication of personal property to the church. The hosts and Freeman examine the complexities and challenges associated with fully embracing these principles.

Key Points:

• Record-Keeping: The importance of maintaining records to track faith, works, and adherence to consecration principles.

  Notable Quote:
  John Bytheway [20:15]: "Well, I'm worried I'm taking some things out of order here a little bit. Right at verse one is important for us because there's sort of mechanics of how this happens too."

• Stewardship vs. Ownership: Transitioning from personal ownership to stewardship of church property, a concept that resonates with many listeners.

  Notable Quote:
  Hank Smith [15:56]: "Robert Freeman: There's the real and the ideal. I think, like you said, we all can hear the ideal and go, ooh, yeah, that sounds good."

• Consequences of Non-Compliance: The firm stance taken by the Lord regarding those who do not adhere to the law of consecration, emphasizing both correction and hope.

  Notable Quote:
  John Bytheway [16:40]: "I think there's some mix of correction, also a hopeful tone that if accepting the principles the way they are being laid out is in alignment with our hearts and our minds, we can get there and be blessed in that process."

4. The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the interpretation of the parable of the wheat and the tares as presented in Doctrine & Covenants. The hosts draw parallels with similar parables from the Book of Mormon, exploring themes of growth amidst opposition.

Key Points:

• Interpretation Provided by the Lord: Unlike some biblical parables, here the Lord directly explains the meaning, eliminating ambiguity.

  Notable Quote:
  John Bytheway [37:33]: "He said, hear now the interpretation. Wow. Well, we get the interpretation of the parable of the sower, but here we get an interpretation of the wheat and the tares."

• Church Growth Metrics: Examination of modern statistics showcasing the church's expansion, countering narratives of decline.

  Notable Quote:
  Hank Smith [52:00]: "I just wanted to read to you something pretty recent. June of 2025, Elder Cook was speaking to new mission presidents here in Provo."

• Wheat vs. Tares in the Modern World: The ongoing struggle between faithful members (wheat) and opposition (tares), highlighting the church's resilience and growth despite external challenges.

  Notable Quote:
  Robert Freeman [54:27]: "If you're out there hearing the social media narratives, go to the church news, read some of those articles, read some of the teachings that the mission leaders received. It'll fire you up. It was so exciting. The wheat's growing Isn't it?"

5. Prophecy and War: Section 87

Section 87 of the Doctrine & Covenants prophesies the American Civil War and broader themes of global conflict. The discussion navigates the historical fulfillment of these prophecies and their relevance to contemporary global tensions.

Key Points:

• Civil War Prophecy: Analysis of Joseph Smith's revelation regarding the outbreak of civil war, its devastating toll, and its historical accuracy.

  Notable Quote:
  Hank Smith [59:56]: "Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the Rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls."

• Modern Implications: Reflection on ongoing global conflicts, missile threats, and the church's call for peace and peacemaking.

  Notable Quote:
  John Bytheway [66:36]: "We want to have an optimism about it, but we don't see an exit ramp for war to go away. It has been sadly such a feature over time."

• Mental Health and War's Aftermath: Addressing the psychological impacts of warfare on veterans and their families, emphasizing the need for support and understanding.

  Notable Quote:
  Robert Freeman [52:00]: "We know that suicide and other evidences of the burden that these soldiers bring home is one of the costs to society, again, of these terrible events we call war."

6. Saints at War: Personal Stories and Reflections

Professor Freeman shares poignant narratives from veterans, including Elder Neal A. Maxwell and President Russell M. Nelson, illustrating the profound intersection of faith and military service.

Key Points:

• Elder Maxwell's Experience: Maxwell's service in Okinawa during World War II, maintaining faith and conducting sacrament services amidst danger, fostering a lasting legacy of dedication and resilience.

  Notable Quote:
  Hank Smith [63:34]: "He was sent to a place that he really didn't even know where on the map to locate his mother, wasn't altogether in favor of his embarking on that service at that time, such a tender age."

• President Nelson's Military Service: Reflections on President Nelson's time in Korea, his compassion towards wounded soldiers, and how these experiences shaped his leadership and discipleship.

  Notable Quote:
  John Bytheway [73:27]: "He expressed condolences and he expressed his concern for him and hope for him. The young man, sensing, I'm sure, a little bit of awkwardness there and what Dr. Nelson was able to say at that time, he turned to me and said, 'Don't worry about me. I'm paraphrasing, of course I'll be okay.'"

• Impact on Church Leadership: How military service has influenced church leaders' approach to faith, service, and community building.

  Notable Quote:
  John Bytheway [66:36]: "I've seen several apostles say that because of their service in wartime, it really had an impact their discipleship going forward."

7. Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts emphasize the enduring relevance of these scriptures and the lessons they impart for navigating faith amidst adversity. They also highlight upcoming discussions in part two, promising further exploration of military nomenclature and additional insights into Doctrine & Covenants sections 85-87.

Notable Quote:
Hank Smith [73:27]: "Coming up in part two of this."

Overall Insights:

This episode of the followHIM podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of Doctrine & Covenants sections 85-87, intertwining scripture, church history, and personal anecdotes to provide a rich understanding of war's role in faith and community. Professor Robert Freeman's expertise, combined with the hosts' thoughtful inquiries, creates a nuanced discussion that is both educational and spiritually uplifting. Listeners gain valuable perspectives on the challenges and blessings of consecration, the resilience of the church amidst opposition, and the profound impact of wartime service on individual and collective faith journeys.

Key Takeaways:

• The law of consecration remains a foundational principle, challenging yet rewarding in its application.
• The parable of the wheat and the tares underscores the church's growth amidst worldly opposition.
• Historical prophecies regarding war highlight the church's prophetic heritage and the ongoing call for peace.
• Personal stories from veterans illustrate the deep intertwining of faith and service, offering inspiration and lessons for contemporary believers.

Resources Mentioned:

• Show Notes: followhim.co
• YouTube Channel: FollowHimOfficialChannel
• Instagram: Instagram.com/followhimpodcast
• Facebook: Facebook.com/followhimpodcast

End of Summary