Podcast Summary

followHIM: Doctrine & Covenants 93 Part 2

Guests: Hank Smith, John Bytheway (hosts), President Steve Lund (guest), with John Castanello
Date: August 20, 2025
Topic: Further exploration of Doctrine & Covenants Section 93—focusing on light and truth, spiritual habits, the influences we surround ourselves with, and balancing family with church service.

Episode Overview

This episode continues the in-depth study of Doctrine & Covenants 93, emphasizing the teachings about light, truth, and intelligence, and how these principles can be applied in daily life. President Steve Lund joins Hank Smith and John Bytheway to explore themes such as the power of spiritual habits, the impact of our environment, balancing ministry with family, and the importance of gradual spiritual growth. The discussion is honest, warm, and filled with stories from leaders’ personal and church experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Establishing Spiritual Habits and Light

• Scripture Study as a Foundation:
  • Hank recounts Elder Larry Echo Hawk’s personal practice from his BYU days—reading 10 pages of the Book of Mormon a day, or until he felt the Spirit. This daily habit helped him accomplish demanding tasks with “the help of heaven.”
    • “On any given day, the most important thing that I did in that day was that the reading of the Scriptures… then I had the help of heaven to do the stuff that was beyond me...” – Hank Smith recalling Elder Echo Hawk’s words [00:07].
• Power of Filling Life with "Light and Truth":
  • The hosts repeatedly emphasize that nurturing light in life drives away darkness. This can be done by reading scripture, listening to uplifting talks or music, and making good media choices.
  • “Marinate in light and truth.” – John Castanello [02:09]

2. The Power of Influence: What We Surround Ourselves With

• Personal Transformation Through Uplifting Choices:
  • President Lund shares the impactful story of a young man whose character transformed after he replaced dark, nihilistic music with spiritual influences.
    • “No, that music stole my childhood. I would not subject anybody to what was in those bags.” – President Lund [05:21]
• Gradual Loss/Gain of Light:
  • The slippery slope is discussed: exposure to darkness or immorality happens by degrees, not all at once—paralleled with the Book of Mormon’s story of Lahonti being “poisoned by degrees” [08:03].
  • “Taking poison or evil in small doses does not make you stronger. It makes you dead.” – Hank Smith [07:22]

3. Entertainment, Agency, and the Holy Ghost

• Selecting Media that Invites the Spirit:
  • The panel emphasizes not just what offends us, but what offends the Holy Ghost, referencing modern For the Strength of Youth (FSOY) standards [11:41].
    • “Don’t participate in entertainment that offends the Holy Ghost. …It’s not about what offends me. It’s about what offends the Holy Ghost.” – President Lund [11:41]
• Practical Suggestions:
  • Listen to uplifting talks (Elder Holland, President Eyring, President Lund), play good music in your home, and fill your environment intentionally with light [09:48 – 10:59].
  • “Go listen to a Steve Lund General Conference talk. There's a few of them…Put on the good music. Turn off [the violence].” – John Castanello [10:40]

4. Intellectual and Spiritual Discernment

• Light is Spiritually Discerned:
  • The interplay between intellect and spirituality is highlighted. Spiritual truths require diligence, humility, and openness, more than purely intellectual searching [13:57].
  • Anecdotes are shared about family members with high education but different spiritual trajectories [12:16].
    • “I have spent more hours of my life on my knees praying to understand the Book of Mormon than ever I have spent studying physics.” – Hank Smith, quoting his brother’s response to a skeptical uncle [12:37]

5. Raising Children in Light and Truth

• Parental Role and Environment:
  • Creating a home where light and truth flourish is a key theme. Children absorb what surrounds them.
    • “You become what you surround yourself with. So be careful what you surround yourself with.” – President Lund recounting advice from a mentor [17:39]
  • Practicality: Use road trips or bedtimes to play uplifting materials, set intentional environments for growth [16:01–16:58].

6. Balance: Church Callings vs. Family

• Doctrine & Covenants 93’s “Chastisement” of Early Church Leaders:
  • The section shifts in focus—after profound theological teachings, the Lord rebukes leaders for neglecting their families amid their church work [27:08].
  • Personal stories are shared about the struggle for balance and the importance of being present at home, not just physically but emotionally and spiritually [28:04–31:27].
    • “I was all this. Everything that they're being criticized for, I was that. And I can understand how...” – President Lund [29:22]
  • Idea of “good, better, best” is discussed, referencing President Oaks’ counsel [36:18].

7. Spiritual Growth is Gradual

• Line Upon Line, Grace for Grace:
  • The symbolism of growing spiritual light is likened to a slow sunrise, referencing Elder Bednar [55:03].
  • “Just a little bit. I love that we brought that up. Line upon line. It's not a light all at once...it's a little bit of light every day.” – President Lund [55:03]

8. Living Testimonies—Light in Unexpected Moments

• President Nelson’s Christlike Example:
  • President Lund tells a story about President Nelson’s reaction to an accident in their home. Nelson turned a moment of embarrassment for a child into a memory of love and kindness [21:26–25:22].
    • “[He] jumps up and he says, well, that was refreshing. I'll be right back…he comes back…and walks right past us and sits down in the chair next to Kelsey and says…‘I hope you have a happy birthday.’” – President Lund [23:01–24:36]
  • Lesson: It’s in spontaneous moments that true character influenced by light is revealed.

9. Hearing and Sharing Spiritual Music

• John the Baptist as the “Preparatory Generation” Model:
  • Discussion shifts to the young men/young women themes—preparation for the Second Coming, likened to John the Baptist’s role [46:33–50:25].

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Consistent Scripture Study:

  • “I found that on any given day, the most important thing that I did in that day was that the reading of the Scriptures.” – Elder Echo Hawk via Hank Smith [00:38]

• On Gradual Spiritual Decline:

  • “If I come at you with a knife…you know my intention. But if I come at you with a refreshing beverage, I can poison you by degrees. And you don't even know it's happening.” – President Lund [08:03]

• On Media and the Holy Ghost:

  • “Don’t participate in entertainment that offends the Holy Ghost…It’s not about what offends me. It’s about what offends the Holy Ghost.” – President Lund [11:41]

• On Balance in Life:

  • “What a tragedy to spend your whole life climbing the ladder of success, only to discover it's leaning against the wrong wall.” – President Lund [35:31]

• On Christlike Response:

  • “[President Nelson] jumps up and he says, well, that was refreshing. I'll be right back…Before he was even dry, he's in there ministering to our sweet daughter and making her feel okay.” – President Lund [23:01–24:36]

• On Gradual Spiritual Light:

  • “Line upon line. It's not a light all at once...it's a little bit of light every day.” – President Lund [55:03]

Memorable Stories

The Transforming Power of Uplifting Choices

(05:21)
A young man realized his negative, nihilistic music choice had dulled his spirit from childhood. After a mission reconnected him with the Spirit, he discarded his entire collection, stating, “That music stole my childhood. I would not subject anybody to what was in those bags.”

"Poisoned by Degrees" Analogy

(07:22–08:03)
Drawing from the Book of Mormon, the group discusses how exposure to immoral influences works slowly and almost imperceptibly—poisoning "by degrees" until spiritual numbness occurs.

President Nelson and the Orange Juice Incident

(21:26–25:22)
An accidental spill on then-Elder Nelson is met with kindness and a spontaneous birthday gift, showing Christlike love in an unexpected, high-stress moment.

Important Timestamps

• 00:07 – Daily scripture study and Elder Echo Hawk’s experience
• 02:09 – Principle of "marinating" in light and truth
• 05:21 – Life change through discarding negative media
• 08:03 – Book of Mormon’s “poisoned by degrees” analogy
• 11:41 – FSOY, what “offends the Holy Ghost”
• 13:57 – Intellect vs. spiritual discernment
• 16:58 – Influence of home environment
• 17:39 – "You become what you surround yourself with"
• 21:26 – President Nelson’s Christlike response
• 27:08 – D&C 93's focus on home and family responsibilities
• 29:22 – Finding balance: personal story as bishop
• 35:31 – Climbing the ladder against the wrong wall
• 36:18 – President Oaks’ “good, better, best” teaching
• 46:33 – John the Baptist and the “preparatory generation”
• 55:03 – Elder Bednar and the sunrise analogy for spiritual growth

Final Insights & Takeaways

• Surround yourself with spiritual influences: Fill your life and home with light—music, scripture, church talks—to marinate your soul in truth.
• Guard against gradual darkness: Be mindful of even small negative choices; they accumulate.
• Real balance requires direction from the Spirit: There isn’t a one-size-fits-all formula—seek the Lord’s guidance to know when to prioritize family, ministry, or work.
• Small and simple things lead to great spiritual outcomes: Growth is “line upon line, precept upon precept”—small, sustained efforts yield powerful change.
• Our character is revealed in unplanned moments: Becoming filled with light prepares us to respond with Christlike love in the unexpected challenges of life.

Closing Quotes

• “[The Lord] has been my friend.” – President Lund [44:56]
• “You become what you surround yourself with.” – President Lund [17:39]
• “We accrue all this light…because it helps us to live better lives and to be better people.” – Hank Smith [21:26]
• “Just keep trying. So are we.” – John Castanello [37:52]

Suggested Actions

• Make a list of “light-bringing” activities and commit to one daily.
• Review entertainment/media choices—ask not just “does this offend me?”, but “would this offend the Holy Ghost?”
• Take time for simple, meaningful moments with family.
• Remember: Grace for grace, line upon line—let the sunrise of spiritual light fill your days.