followHIM Favorites • Jesus Says We Have to Get Divorced

Summary

Podcast Summary: followHIM Favorites • "Jesus Says We Have to Get Divorced"

Episode Title: followHIM Favorites • Jesus Says We Have to Get Divorced
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Release Date: February 27, 2025
Podcast: followHIM
Podcast Description: Do you ever feel that preparing for your weekly Come, Follow Me lesson falls short? Join hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway as they interview experts to make your study for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ Come, Follow Me course not only enjoyable but original and educational. If you are looking for resources to make your LDS study fresh, faithful, and fun—no matter your age—then join us every Wednesday morning.

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Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of followHIM Favorites, hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway delve into the profound topic of repentance as outlined in Doctrine and Covenants Section 19. The discussion pivots around the imperative nature of repentance and its transformative power, drawing parallels with C.S. Lewis’s literary work, "The Great Divorce".

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Exploring the Nature of Repentance

Hank Smith initiates the conversation by emphasizing the Lord’s unwavering command to repent, highlighting its necessity to avoid suffering. He states:

"I command you to repent because I don't want you to suffer."
(00:03)

This strong directive underscores the seriousness with which repentance is viewed within the doctrinal context.

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C.S. Lewis’s "The Great Divorce" – A Narrative Parallel

To elucidate the concept of repentance, Hank introduces a narrative from C.S. Lewis’s "The Great Divorce". He recounts the story of a man who, posthumously, visits heaven but finds hell to be an unappealing place characterized by monotony and interconnected suffering. The man’s desire to stay in heaven leads him to confront his own sins, symbolized by a "big, red, ugly lizard" perched on his shoulder.

Hank narrates the man's internal struggle to divorce himself from his sins:

"I need you to leave me because I want to stay here in heaven."
(01:18)

The lizard represents the man’s unresolved sins, creating a barrier to his acceptance into heaven despite his desire to repent.

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The Struggle Between Sin and Salvation

The dialogue between the man and the lizard encapsulates the human struggle with sin:

"Do you know how long I've been with you? Do you know how much good times we've had together?"
(Approx. 02:13)

This personification of sin as a persistent, clawing force illustrates the tangible pain and resistance one might feel when attempting to repent. The man's realization that proximity to the angel (representing the Savior) exacerbates his pain:

"When you are close to me, this really hurts."
(Approx. 04:15)

This metaphor poignantly conveys how confronting one's sins is both painful and necessary for spiritual healing.

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Resolution Through Repentance

Despite the torment, the man's yearning to remain in heaven compels him to choose repentance over his attachment to sin. He pleads for help to remove the lizard:

"Can you really kill it?"
(Approx. 05:45)

The angel's assurance of providing the necessary assistance, albeit causing immense pain, signifies the true cost of repentance. The man's eventual acceptance to endure the pain leads to the destruction of his sin, symbolizing the purification that follows genuine repentance.

"It's worth the pain of repentance, whatever that involves."
(07:09)

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Connecting to Doctrine and Covenants Section 19

John Bytheway (referred to as B in the transcript) connects the narrative to Doctrine and Covenants 19, emphasizing the Lord's suffering endured to prevent believers from experiencing similar anguish:

"I've suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent."
(06:29)

This reinforces the episode’s central theme that repentance, while challenging, is invaluable for spiritual well-being.

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Practical Applications of Repentance

Hank extends the discussion to practical steps listeners can take to embrace repentance, acknowledging the inherent pain and embarrassment it might involve:

"Maybe you have to go see the bishop. Maybe you need to go talk to the Bishop. It's worth the pain."
(06:44)

He reassures listeners that seeking guidance from church leaders is a supportive process designed to aid in their spiritual journey, not to judge or shame them.

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Final Insights and Encouragement

Concluding the episode, Hank underscores the importance of enduring the pain of repentance for the sake of spiritual advancement:

"It's worth the pain of repentance, whatever that involves."
(07:09)

He encourages listeners to embrace the discomfort as a pathway to a more fulfilling and righteous life, aligning with the teachings of Doctrine and Covenants and the inspirational story drawn from C.S. Lewis.

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Conclusion

In this episode of followHIM Favorites, Hank Smith and John Bytheway provide a compelling exploration of repentance, intertwining doctrinal teachings with literary storytelling to illuminate its significance. Through the allegory of "The Great Divorce", listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the challenges and rewards associated with repentance. The hosts adeptly bridge theoretical concepts with practical advice, fostering a relatable and motivational discussion aimed at enhancing the listener’s spiritual journey.

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Note: For further insights and discussions, listeners are encouraged to explore the full followHIM podcast available on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Follow Him Favorites this is where John and I share a single story to go with each week's lesson. John, we are in doctrine and Covenants 19 this week. I thought of a story as I was reading where the Lord says, please repent, Please repent over and over. He in fact, he doesn't even say please. He says, I command you to repent. I command you to repent because I don't want you to suffer. You don't remember? He says, how sore? You know not. I don't want you to suffer, so please repent. I think he says, command repent. Honestly throughout the entire section. It made me think of this story. C. S Lewis wrote a book called the Great Divorce. It's not as famous as his other ones, right. Chronicles of Narnia and Mere Christianity. But I really like this one. There's a lot of different stories in it, a lot more detail, but I like this single part of it. I think it's really towards the end of the book where there's a man who doesn't live a good life and he ends up going to hell. So C.S. lewis, Christian believes heaven and hell. So the man ends up going to hell, and he doesn't like it there.

[B]

It's not a nice place to visit, and I wouldn't want to live there.

[A]

I don't want to live there. He says, it's black and white, not a lot of color. Everybody's pretty ornery and there's lots of long lines. Wouldn't that make you think I want to repent? I can handle burning and fire. But yeah, long lines at ornery people and no color. Yeah. So as he's there, he hates it there. He sees that you can take a tour of heaven. There's like a bus that goes to heaven. Sure, go take a tour of heaven. So he gets on the bus and wants to see it when? Well, he gets to heaven and he loves it there. He's on the tour and there's no long lines. Everybody's pretty happy and everything's in color. There's lots of color. And he just thinks, oh, I wish I would have lived a better life. I could stay here in heaven. This is where I want to be. The bus driver, he says, hey, get back on the bus. Right? I don't know if he's from.

[B]

He's from Brooklyn, clearly.

[A]

Back on the bus, get back on the bus, fella. So he doesn't want to go, and he starts walking over to the bus when an angel stops him and says, you don't have to get back on the bus. And the man says, oh, I do. I was just visiting today. And he said, no, no, no. Do you like it here? And the man says, of course I. I like it here. I love it here. And the angel says, you can stay. Really? Really? I can stay? You can stay if you want to. He says, I want to. And the angel says, oh, good. I'm so glad you want to stay. You can be here. But that. And he points at his shoulder, and it's this big, red, ugly lizard, which is. I can see why the book wasn't super popular. And it's sitting on his shoulder, and he's. The angel says, you can stay, but that cannot. You find out later that this represents this man's sins. He can go to heaven, but his sins can't go with him. So he's got to decide between his sins and heaven. That's why it's called the Great Divorce, right? It's. I'm going to divorce myself from my sins. Well, yeah. This red lizard does not want to let go. He says to the lizard, it can talk. He says to the lizard, I need you to leave me because I want to stay here in heaven. And the lizard says something like, I'm not leaving you. Do you know how long I've been with you? Do you know how much good times we've had together? Right? I am not leaving you. And it starts to grip him with some claws. And he says, ow, ow, ow. Don't, don't. And the angel said, can I help you? And he's like, well, I don't want you to kill it. Let me figure it out on my own. Can you see this, John? Like, I don't necessarily want to go away. Not yet anyway. So he says to the lizard, listen, I really need you to go. And the lizard says, nope, I'm not going anywhere. And the angels takes a step forward. I can help you. And when the angel takes a step forward, that lizard digs in, and he says, don't let him touch me. He can kill me. Don't let him touch me. Listen to this, John. See if you can catch your spiritual ears here. The man says to the angel, don't come near me. This hurts. His sins hurts. When you are close to me. Isn't that interesting? When you get close to me, this really hurts. And you can talk about, oh, when I go to church, when I go to the temple, I feel my sins are weighing on me. Pretty soon the bus driver starts saying, hey, pal, you gotta get on the bus. And he said, hold on a minute. And the angels there going, I can help you. And he says, hold on. And the lizard's talking to him. Don't let him touch me. Hey, pal, get on the bus. I can help you. Let me help you. Don't you want to stay? I want to stay, but don't get close. Hey, buddy, you're getting on the bus, right? And he's got to make a decision, John. What's he going to do? And he finally looks at the angel and he says, can you do it? Can you really kill it? And he says, yes, it will hurt more than anything you've ever felt in your entire life. And the man says, oh, right. Like, oh, no. But he doesn't want to go back to hell. Johnny wants to stay in heaven. And the desire to stay in heaven is now worth the pain. So he drops to his knees and he said, do it. Kill it. And the angel comes over and the lizard reeks out, and it's just shredding the man's shoulder. He's screaming in pain. And the angel gets to it and grabs it, and it dies. And he throws it, and it's far away. And the man looks over, and his shoulder is fine. His shoulder is healed. He's trying to grasp what happened. And he looks up, and the angel is the Lord. It's the Savior. And he said, now you can stay. And they embrace, and it's this great story. And then his sins turn into a stallion and come back and he rides it into heaven. I mean, I don't quite understand that part, but I love the story of it's worth it. It's worth the pain of repentance, whatever that involves.

[B]

Reminds me of King Lamoni's father. I will give away all my sins to know thee that that was his great divorce. And right in section 19 is, I've suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent.

[A]

So maybe you have to go see the bishop. Maybe you need to go talk to the Bishop. It's worth the pain. It's worth the embarrassment. And I promise you, your bishop is not going to be shocked. He's not going to cover his mouth and go. He's going to be there for you. Maybe you got to go talk to your parents. Maybe there's some things you got to change. Maybe you got to change your friends. Maybe you have to change some music. Whatever it is, it's worth the pain.

[B]

Some of those painful things.

[A]

Yeah. Well, we hope you'll join us on our full podcast. It's called Follow Him. You can get it wherever you get your podcast. We're with Andy Horton this week. He's been a teacher in the church for 30 years, and he really shows us some things in this section we've never seen before. Then come back next week and we'll do another Follow him favorite.