A (3:24)

And Genesis does not shy away from the messiness of all scripture.

B (3:29)

I have a friend. You know how the church is trying to compile an international hymnbook? He told me that there's one hymn in particular that they're really struggling with and it's hymn 301 in the English hymnbook. I am a child of God and I'm. Why would you struggle with that? That's a no brainer. You don't even have to pray, whether or not that needs to be in the hymn book. And he says, no, no, no. Yeah. The chorus is money. I am a child of God. There's a phrase in there that's for some people, really painful. The part says, has given me an earthly home with parents kind and dear. Which implies that God sent you to that family. Well, then that's all fine and dandy. You're going to sing that with gusto if you come from a family that is kind and dear. But what if they're not?

A (4:17)

I've heard that before from people they. What if that's not me? Well, then this lesson is for you. Let's talk about it.

B (4:25)

Not too long ago, I was going on a walk with one of my neighbors. I've known him for decades. I think he's one of the three Nephites. He is just as committed as anybody I know in the kingdom. But he said something that surprised me. He said, mike, I feel like I'm losing my faith. I'm like somebody with this calling election made sure will not lose his faith. What are you talking about? He says, no. He says, I've been reading the Old Testament. Every time I read the altar, I feel like I'm losing my faith. There's just so many things that are so odd and shocking. The Lord repeatedly and emphatically says, jacob, I loved, but Esau I hated. And you're like, there's some tricky things. And we want to be able to approach the text and interpret it in a responsible, faithful manner. And I think we can talk about some tools that can help us do that. Wonderful.

A (5:21)

Let's exegetically.

B (5:23)

That's the word. Yes.

A (5:25)

Speaking of hymns, my wife and I sometimes sing that there is beauty all around when there's no one home. Okay. Yeah. John, tell us about Mike. What do we know about him?

C (5:39)

Brother Mike Harris. He's been teaching at Utah Valley University Institute for the past nine years. He served a mission in I'm so excited to say this. Torreon, Mexico. How'd I do? And after returning home, attended byu. He earned a bachelor's in Spanish, a minor in family science. He has two master's degrees, one in curriculum development and the other in, wait for it, Old Testament Biblical Studies. And he's currently a PhD candidate in Old Testament studies at Amridge University, and he's taught in seminaries and institutes for the past 20 years. His wife Clea's from Alberta, Canada. Yay. He met her while they were both teaching Seminary in 1997. She was at Pleasant Grove High School and he was at Orem Junior High. They both insist it was love at first sight. So this is perfect because we're going to have some marriages here in these chapters. They have six children, been married for 27 years. Clea is an estate planning attorney, which also gets into families, trying to help them make things not messy, he says. I subscribe to the keto diet, except when hanging out with my buddies Ben and Jerry for fun. I enjoy Scrabble and playing pickleball. What a delightful background. And notice how much family is in there. Welcome, Mike.

A (7:02)

This is going to be fun. I think we found the perfect guest to talk about the messiness of families. And yet here is the Lord working through this family. Let's start with the Come Follow Me manual, then Mike, John and I are ready to learn the name of the lesson this week is Let God Prevail. How do you secure for yourself a blessing from God? You might say that the account of Jacob, grandson of Abraham and Sarah, is the story of a man who learned the answer to that question. In a culture where the firstborn son received a birthright blessing, Jacob was born second, grasping the heel of his twin brother Esau. The name Jacob means supplanter, one who replaces someone else. Jacob lived up to that name by trying more than once to supplant Esau as inheritor of the Birthright blessing because Esau was unworthy of it. The result was discord in the family, and Jacob had to flee for his life into the wilderness. Years later, God commanded Jacob to return home. On the way, Jacob, in humility, again sought a blessing from God. The scriptures describe this time as a wrestle for Jacob, and he declared that he would not give up except thou bless me. Then came the lesson and the blessing. God changed Jacob's name to Israel, meaning, among other things, let God prevail. Israel learned that to Receive God's most valuable blessings, his covenant blessings. It's not necessary to supplant someone else. His blessings aren't purchased or seized or won. He gives them freely to all who live up to the name of Israel, who let God prevail in their lives. So well written. All right. With that, Mike, where do you want to start?

B (8:51)

How exactly does God bless families? Yes. Faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work and wholesome recreational activities bring blessings. But there's something else that's really critical. That's my favorite part of the proclamation to the world. On the family. You have this solemn tone of the proclamation. And at the very end, and then. And play pickleball.

A (9:18)

Yeah. Get out there and do things.

B (9:21)

That just endears my heart to my heavenly Father. As silly as this might sound, he wants me to have fun. That's the God I believe in. Yes. All those things are so crucial if we want to have a happy home. But like I said, there's something else. So let's dive in. Verse 1, Genesis, chapter 24, verse 1. We're going to find something here unexpected. In fact, in preparing for this podcast, I'd never seen this before. It says here, and Abraham was old and well stricken in age, and the Lord had blessed. That's what we want, right? We want to be blessed. Blessed Abraham in all things. Wait a minute, though, really. I know we're supposed to count our blessings, but just for a second, humor me. At this moment in Abraham's life, let's count his non blessings. Okay. Right there. Even in the text itself, he's old. There's some nice things about being old, but typically when I want to get out of a chair now, I got to be one for the money, two for the show, you know, and I got to. Got to get a. There's some problems there. And then not. It's like doubling down on it. The next phrase. Well, stricken in age. What? It wasn't okay just to say it was old. Why is it emphasizing that? I did a search every time that phrase appears. It's never good. Real quick. In First Kings, chapter one, verse one, David, he's stricken in age. And it says, and David gat. No heat. In the New Testament, Elizabeth and Zacharias are stricken in years and they've suffered much grief and they can't have any children. Gideon, in the Book of Mormon, it says that he's stricken with many years. He wasn't able to withstand the blows of Nehor, and so he got killed. Even Sariah, Nephi, they're on the boat. And it says that same phrase appears they're stricken in years. So they weren't able to calm Laman and Lemuel down when they were acting with exceeding rudeness. And they were about ready to be buried with their gray hairs into a watery grave. This verse is emphasizing, you know, in the ancient Hebrew text, there's no chapter divisions. The verse right before verse one. Here, if we go to chapter 23, verse 20. What's happened? He just buried his wife. And people mean well and they see things like, well, you know, it was her time. She lived a good long life. And for the righteous there's no sting. But you know what? I don't know. I think for a good person who's righteous and truly has loved. Oh, death stings. In fact, I was reading President Dallin H. Oaks book. It's titled Life Lessons Learned. He gives sweet, tender insight into what it was like when his first wife died. He said, when we lose a spouse, we are usually unaware how deeply wounded we are For a time. We do not function well physically or mentally. We should not make major decisions until we are mostly whole again. The required time will differ. For me, it was. This blows my mind here. He is a special witness of Christ. And what does it say? For me, it was about a year before I could trust myself with a major personal decision. I think Abraham, yes, he knows that his wife's going to be resurrected. They can be together forever. But I think there's a lot of hurt going on right now and loneliness and just ache.

A (13:04)

Mike, I remember when Sister Hinckley passed away. President Hinckley in the next conference says I was at her bedside as she slipped peacefully into eternity. As I held her hand and saw mortal life drain from her fingers. I confess I was overcome. Before I married her, she had been the girl of my dreams. To use the words of a song then popular. She was my dear companion for more than two thirds of a century. My equal before the Lord. Really my superior. And now, in my old age, she has again become the girl of my dreams.

B (13:44)

Wow, you're hitting me in the fills. Yeah, that's how I feel about my wife, Clea. Yeah, beautiful. We're not done counting our non blessings. There's more. I know there's a lot here in verse one. It's pretty dense. He's been promised repeatedly that he and his posterity would inherit the land of Canaan. Yet it was all that Abraham could do back in Genesis 23 to purchase a parcel of land to have his wife Buried. Remember, the Lord promised him that he would receive the entire land. He says, look north, look south, look east, look west. It's all going to be yours. We're not just talking an acre or two. He can barely get a small piece of land for his wife's burial. You've received a patriarchal blessing or a priesthood blessing and you've been promised something and it's not happening. Abraham understands we're not done counting our non blessings here. He was promised posterity, as numerous as the sand, the dust and the stars. Yet his son Isaac isn't married. He's not even dating. In fact, when Isaac gets on dating apps, he's not swiping to the right, he's not swiping up because he's living in the middle of Canaan where all the candidates, the dating prospects, they're idol worshipers. He's spending Friday night at home.

A (15:17)

John, it reminds me of when the Lord says I will bless you. And then you usually quote the Princess Bride, I will bless you. You keep using that word.

C (15:27)

I don't think it means.

B (15:28)

What do you think it means?

C (15:29)

Yeah, I'm not seeing it the same.

A (15:33)

Not seeing blessings the way you are.

B (15:37)

Here in verse one, it says the Lord had blessed Abraham in all things. The Hebrew word behind blessed is barak. As you look at how it's used here in these opening chapters of Genesis, it's repeatedly connected explicitly to multiplying and replenishing the earth. In Genesis chapter one, the Lord creates the beasts of the field and he commands them, he blesses them, and then immediately commands them to multiply and replenish. And then in verse 26, the same thing with Adam and Eve. Then in Genesis 9:1, Noah blesses His sons and then commands them to multiply and replenish. You see it over and over again. Abraham's like, where's the blessing? The posterity as numerous as the sands sea. It's not happening. It says at the end of verse one that Abraham was blessed in all things. The Hebrew behind that, and I don't think this appears anywhere else in the Hebrew Bible. It's hakol. That means the all or the everything. If you were to translate it literally from the Hebrew, but no English versions translate it that way, they'll all say he was blessed in everything or in all things or in all ways. It's conveying this idea that he, Abraham, is being blessed in all, all facets conceivable. Yet this is so contradictory. Wait a minute. Really?

A (17:08)

The most read verse in the Book of Mormon Is I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents. Therefore I was taught somewhat in the learning of my father, and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days. And then his next phrase, yea, having been highly favored of the Lord, like, wait, what in one verse teaches the exact same thing? That apparently the Lord sees blessings as opportunities to grow.

B (17:38)

Yeah, we have to keep reading to figure out what is the text trying to get across. And Hank, that's a beautiful cross reference. What does Abraham do to bless his family? Do you just read your scriptures, go to church, say your prayers? You know? Of course he does. But he does something else in chapter 24. As we go through here, verse by verse, is going to give some hints, some clues along the way to show us how we can really bless our family. Let's go to verse two. And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house that ruled over all that he had put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh, verse three. And I will make thee swear by the Lord, the God of heaven and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son, of the daughters of the Canaanites among whom I dwell. But thou shalt go unto my country that's about 500 miles up north to Haran and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac. When you read that, you might be thinking, why not just send Isaac himself? I would suggest this, that throughout the Old Testament, leaving the land of Canaan is often equated with living outside the covenant. Blessings. Like you recall, they'd had to go to Egypt for a while because of the seven years of famine. While they're there, Jacob or Israel, he's about ready to die. And he requires his son Joseph, Joseph with the coat of many colors, to take an oath. You make sure you bury my bones in Canaan. And then Joseph goes to die also there in Egypt, and he puts his people under oath, solemn oath, you make sure that you bury my bones in Canaan. Suggesting this theological message that I've got to be in the covenant that is the promised land. Yeah. So I think for Abraham, it's not worth the risk to have Isaac move outside Canaan and maybe not come back. I think that's what the text is trying to suggest. In fact, look at verse five. And the servant said unto him, peradventure, the woman will not be willing to follow me unto this land again, this land into the covenant must I needs bring thy son again unto the land from whence thou camest. And Abraham said unto him, beware that thou bring not my son thither. Again, it's interesting where it says in verse six, beware that thou bring not my son thither. Again, meaning thither, meaning up there in Haran, outside the covenant. To bring comes from the Hebrew word shuv. The root of it simply means to turn. It's often referred to with repentance, where you just turn to the Lord. Or sometimes it refers to turning away from the Lord being apostate. So I think the text is trying to suggest that I don't want my son to turn away from the covenant.

A (20:58)

Got it. Isaiah named his son Sher Yeshuv. A portion will return.

B (21:04)

I didn't think about that. That's beautiful. To bless our families, yes, we need to read scriptures and go to church, say our prayers and play some pickleball. Notice how Genesis 24 is underscoring. If we really want a blessed family, we have to have this covenantal focus. The Come follow me manual that you read, Hank, at the beginning of the podcast really did a beautiful job, but that's worth repeating. That should be our primary interpretive lens as we go through this chapter. And that is in order for God to fully bless our families. Genesis 24 is inviting us to focus on the covenant.

A (21:48)

The servant seems to realize how important this is. He says, what if the woman doesn't want to come back?

B (21:55)

And you know what's shocking about that, Hank, is sometimes I hear people say, you know, back in those days, sometimes the Bible can be sexist, you know, But I'm like, I always feel a little uncomfortable. I know the culture was. But when you impose that on the scriptures, I sometimes like, ugh. It gives me pause. I think, here's a great example. The agency of the woman is completely being honored when it comes to making covenants. Maybe in the ancient near east, you would be pressured and manipulated to make a treaty or a covenant not with the Lord, but with a king or a ruler. But when it comes to making covenants or treaties, agreements with God, he 100% says, I do not want to pressure. This has to come from you. 100%. And you see that being highlighted here in the text. You would not expect that from their culture.

C (22:51)

In verse eight, if the woman will not be willing to follow thee, then thou shalt force her. No. Then thou shalt be clear from this, my oath. There's consent involved and agency is honored. I'm glad you pointed that out.

A (23:07)

Am I reading this right? That he says, bring him back? Is that what Abraham is saying to the servant is, if the woman doesn't want to come, I want my son come back, only you will not return my son. There is he saying, like, I want him back home.

B (23:28)

I think what he's saying there in verse six is, hey, if you can't find a worthy candidate for my son to marry, whatever you do, you can't take my son out of the covenant land. You can't take him from here in Canaan. You can't take him up to Haran. He has to stay in the covenant. That's my dying wish here. Right.

A (23:53)

So, Mike, am I reading this right? That the servant is going to go find a woman for Isaac to marry, but Isaac is going to stay in Israel, in Canaan? And the servant is saying, well, what if she doesn't want to come here? Abraham's saying, well, okay, if she doesn't want to come here, then you don't have to find him a wife because no matter what, he's not going there to her.

B (24:21)

Exactly.

A (24:22)

Got it. Okay.

B (24:23)

I want Isaac to remain here in the land of Canaan. The text is trying to emphasize Isaac has to stay in the land covenant.

A (24:33)

Got it. Because in your mind, the land and the covenant are the same.

B (24:39)

Yes.

A (24:40)

Synonymous.

C (24:41)

In this case, that's what we're doing, equating the covenant with the land. I like the way you said it. Land, covenant that makes us all go, oh, I see why this is so important here. Not just real estate. It's about the covenant.

A (24:55)

Yeah.

B (24:55)

And to build on that idea, you see that in the book of Deuteronomy where it describes, I want to take you to a land that flows with milk and honey. Well, I've been to Israel. You've been to Israel? Modern day Israel, is it known for its milk and honey? Like, you gotta try their honey. The book of Deuteronomy is filled with this poetic language like, if you're faithful to me, when you get there, there will be no disease, none of your women will suffer from barrenness or infertility. All this hyperbole where clearly throughout the Old Testament, the Lord connects being in the promised land with it's a type and a shadow of heaven, which is only achieved through obedience and loyalty to the covenant. Now in our modern day culture, we have friends, family, parents, church leaders that may be. Sometimes friends pressure us to, hey, you got to get married in the temple, you got to get your endowment. Maybe sometimes a culture we press too hard, we pressure. I mean, all the pressure. Maybe it's not all bad. I mean, it's just coming from a good place. But at the end of the day, the text here is we've got to honor the agency of the woman. She's got to enter into a covenant ultimately if she wants to. And that's true for us today. How about verse seven? Do we see any focus on the covenant here? In verse 7 it says, the Lord God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, that would have been back where he grew up. His stomping grounds was in Ur, which is modern day Iran, Iraq area. And from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, unto thy seed will I give this land. He shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence. We've got some covenantal connections here. In this verse. The first three words, the Lord God. If you look in the Hebrew, typically you first have verbs followed by the subject here. And this is a really good translation. It's fronting Lord God. It's placing the Lord God in what we call an emphatic position. I mean, we can kneel next to our bed and we can make promises with God. I promise I'll be a good boy. I promise I'll be a good girl. I'll go to church, if you'll just bless me with these. And we try to make deals with God, I suppose that's fine. But when it comes to official covenants, we don't stipulate the terms. You see that here, where it's the Lord God who's taking the initiative to make things happen. Verse 9. Should we keep moving?

A (27:57)

Yeah, let's keep going.

B (27:59)

And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham, his master, and swear to him concerning that matter.

C (28:09)

It looks like the JST in verse 2 and verse 9 is changing thigh to hand.

B (28:16)

It's interesting. In Genesis, chapter 47, verse 29, right before Jacob dies in Egypt, he makes Joseph covenant that he'll make sure that his bones are buried in Canaan. Like I was saying earlier, he tells him to put his hand under his thigh and there's no jst. I find this interesting because we know anciently the penalty for oath breaking, especially in the ancient Near East. If you broke your treaty, your covenant with the king or the ruler, what's the penalty? Death. This seriousness is being underscored by placing his hand under Abraham's loins, that part of the body associated with lineage. This dramatically captures the serious and sacred nature of an oath.

A (29:09)

It's definitely One of those, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there.

B (29:14)

Right?

A (29:15)

Like, oh, okay, interesting.

B (29:17)

I don't know how to best teach this to those that we love that are preparing to go to the temple. But I mean, it's just so sad when people go to the temple and it's a one and done. I remember Elder Holland was speaking with the media once and one of the reporters asked, so Elder Holland, would you give your life for the church? And he thought about it and they said, well, that's what I thought I was doing. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the covenant isn't like a part time deal. Like, okay, on Sunday I'm going to be a good boy, a good girl, I'm going to go to church. No, this is 24 7, 365. None of us do it perfectly well, but we're striving all the time to be all in. Maybe our listeners have heard this before. It's kind of humorous, but at the same time it gets the point across. The story goes that the hen and the pig were in the barnyard talking about the difference between commitment and involvement. To get his point across, the pig said to the hen, tomorrow morning when the farmer comes out for breakfast, you're only involved, but I'm committed. You're going to give some eggs, but I'm bacon. Fortunately today for most of us it's not a life or death situation when we keep our covenants. But the Lord expects us to daily strive to be all in. You get that seriousness being communicated by this covenant making going on. It's not just the land that is equated with the covenant. Let's go to verse 10 now. And the servant took 10 camels of the camels of his master and departed. For all the goods of his master were in his hand. And he arose and he went to Mesopotamia unto the city of Nahor. These camels and the goods. You get the impression that he's going to load up these camels. And most Bible scholars will say, oh, you need 10 camels because you got to carry all these goods, which can serve as the bride price or the dowry. You also need supplies for the journey. I mean, to travel 500 miles, you're going to need a month or two. Reading it through that historical lens I think is helpful and correct. I think there's some symbolism going on at the same time. The phrase the goods comes from the Hebrew word tuv, which occurs 32 times in the Old Testament. This is the first time it appears. If you survey every time it appears, guess what you see appearing over and over again. Not every time, but repeatedly. Tuv refers to the material and the spiritual blessings that can come from living in the land that flows with milk and honey. The tuv or these goods that he's carrying, it's almost like this symbol, this token that this servant's going to carry up there and show the woman that's going to marry Isaac. Look, we're looking for a covenant marriage. Look at the blessings here. Look at the tangible blessings, these material blessings. These aren't just because he was good at investing in the stock market. This is evidence that God is blessing him. Now, I don't want to be misunderstood. We don't want to promote the prosperity gospel. Like, if you keep my commandments, you're going to get a pay raise. That doesn't always happen here. The text is using the material goods to symbolize that God is prospering.

A (33:16)

Abraham, these goods aren't just, hey, we got to go up and buy this daughter from somebody. You're basically taking a member of their household, like an employee, someone who does work. So you're going to go and say, hey, we want to take this person from your family. Here's the payment for it. Also, you're saying the goods aren't just for that purpose. It's also proof that they are in a covenant relationship with God in Canaan. Like, look what we have. I'm bringing a portion of this. It's like a sample of what life is like back home.

B (33:56)

I think that's a good summary. So as you go through here and you see the camels and you see the goods, I'd look at as a token or evidence of the covenant. Verse 11 also strikes at the heart of this covenant. Here we go, verse 11. And he, the servant made his camels to knill, to knil also comes from that Hebrew word barak. To bless. You got this beautiful sound play where the text has this beautiful overtones. I, the Lord want to bless. I'm not trying to suggest that the camels are kneeling down to worship or praise the Lord. It's just a Hebrew sound play to emphasize that throughout this text that God wants to bless through the. Through the covenant. Verse 11. And he made the camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water at the time of the evening, even the time that women go out to draw water. For the Hebrew listeners, when they hear camels kneeling, they're going to hear that word, barak, and they think, oh, blessing. It's a literary device signaling that God's blessings are about to break forth. They're about to unfold. This is the moment.

A (35:20)

So, like the camels, kneeling are a sign of readiness for this significant encounter.

B (35:28)

Yeah. And you can only hear that if you are listening to it in the original Hebrew. Because of that Barak wordplay, we've got to talk about the type scene of the well of Water or the Spring of Water. It's a common motif or theme in the scripture canon. We also have it not only here with Isaac and Rebekah, but we have it with Jacob and Leah and Rachel. We have it with Moses and Zipporah. We also have Jesus and the Samaritan woman. These encounters, all of these encounters at the well have five plot elements. One, a groom journeys to a foreign land. Two, he encounters a girl or girls at a well. Three, someone draws water. Four, girl runs home to announce the visitor's arrival. And five, a visitor is invited to a mill. I got to give credit to Joan Cook, who wrote a great article entitled Wells, Women and Faith where she unpacks this motif. There's intentional symbolism going on. The best commentary that shows that this is intentional symbolism is found in modern Latter Day Saint scripture. In Doctrine and Covenants, Section 63:23, it says, the Lord told Joseph Smith, unto him that keepeth my commandments, I will give the mysteries of my kingdom, and the same shall be in him a well of living water springing up unto everlasting life. The text is trying to tell us, wow, these people at this spring aren't just thirsty, they are righteous. They are covenant individuals that love the Lord.

A (37:21)

It makes me want to speak Hebrew because you would see that with the camels kneeling, the well is a symbol of God's blessings. Something significant from God is about to happen.

B (37:33)

It's not just about a marriage between a mortal man and a woman, Isaac and Rebekah. It's also about it should point our minds to the marriage that the Lord wants with his people. Covenant Israel. This marriage motif between the Lord and his people is all throughout the Bible. The ten virgins. Five are wise, five are foolish. We know that the bridegroom's Jesus and the virgin symbolize the church members.

A (38:02)

It's over and over. It's in the one chapter of Isaiah that Jesus quotes to the Nephites. It's Isaiah 54 about the husband who is looking for his wife. Over and over in scripture is this. He is the groom Israel. Both men and women are the bride. And we'll keep saying it all this year.

B (38:26)

And even Paul, he Repeatedly stated when referring to the Adam and Eve story in the Garden of Eden. The way he reads it is Adam is a symbol for Jesus and Eve, a symbol for the church or covenant Israel. Let's look at one more verse and then we'll quickly summarize the rest of the chapter and then jump to the exciting conclusion. We can't skip verse 12. Check this out. Notice the covenant. He the servant said, O Lord God of my master Abraham, I pray thee, pray thee comes from the Hebrew Na, which a better translation is Please, please send me good speed this day and shu what? Kindness unto my master Abraham. Any guesses what the Hebrew is behind kindness?

A (39:24)

I know this one. The word here is hesed. And four years ago, one of my friends, Hillary Wright, she said to me, what is hesed? You guys bring it up all the time. Every lesson I hear hesed this and hesed that. Mike, can you teach us?

B (39:43)

Yeah, President Nelson talked about it a lot. I think we can summarize it by saying that chesed is covenant loyalty. It's not just the loyalty that we should show to God, but it's also the loyalty that he shows to us. It goes both ways. We know that even when we're stinkers, he still has chesed. He still stays loyal. Even if we're cheating on him, he doesn't cheat on us. The covenant stays intact.

A (40:17)

It's a beautiful, tender way to describe it. Husband and wife. She keeps leaving him for other men and he still loves her. It's tender, it's painful. Maybe it's describing the pain that he feels when Israel goes after other gods.

C (40:36)

People have helped me think of the covenant. You know how often we've said it's a two way agreement. Well, it is, but what you've been saying, Mike, this is a relationship and it involves loyalty. I don't feel loyalty to a piece of paper if I signed a two way agreement in the same way of loyalty to a person. When we think of the loyalty in a marriage that's working and the loyalty God offers us and wants us to offer him, I think it helps a lot to think, oh, it's not the covenant contract, it's a covenant relationship.

B (41:11)

You remind me of something. My colleague and dear friend Gary Little at the Utah Valley Institute of Religion, he pointed out where Elder Bednar has done something interesting. There's been two or three times, separate occasions where he's emphasized. He says, you know, I don't really like to say a covenant relationship. I mean, it is a relationship. We use that because that's our world, we can understand relationships. But he says, I prefer to say a covenant connection because you think of our relationships like we've been saying, they're messy. And even the best ones, he says, they don't even come close to the reality of how wonderful it's going to be in the hereafter to have that covenant connection with the Lord. The closest we can get to is to say a covenant relationship, but it's going to even beyond that says, I'm going to call it a covenant connection. I'm paraphrasing Elder Bednar, but hopefully that gets the point across. It's better than a relationship. As sweet as relationships can be.

A (42:20)

I love what we're doing here, Mike, because we've got listeners who one have been promised, oh, you'll be blessed. And we're going, is this what blessings look like? Look at the difficulty Abraham is going through. Then he's thinking, oh, I want my child to marry in the covenant. Please marry in the covenant. And then sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it's wonderful. And a child who marries in the temple and they return to the temple over and over and over, you get to see the blessings from that. Sometimes a child chooses not to do that. What am I going to do then? How am I going to deal with that? But at the same time, I am keeping my covenants. The Lord is going to be loyal to me even if I'm not. We find he is going to be loyal. Should we keep going? What happens? Do they find the girl?

B (43:12)

Yeah. Okay. The servant makes the 500 mile journey up to the land and he finds Rebekah. And let's not go into all the details, but long story short, Rebecca decides, yes, I'm going to be a part of this covenant. I am going to go back and I'm going to be married to Isaac. There is one verse that we can't skip. Let's let Rebekah speak. She doesn't say a lot, but oh boy. It also points to the power of covenants. What verse is it? It's verse 58. And they called Rebekah and said unto her, wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go. And in Hebrew, it's just one word, which this succinct response agrees with the instructions Jesus gave about oath making in third Nephi chapter 13, 33 and 37, where he said, quote, thou shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths, but let your communication be what, yea, yea, or nay? Nay. And it's the same in our temples today when we make covenants. It's yes. And boy, talk about a life changing moment. It is done with a simple and a sincere yes. As soon as you utter the words in a temple. Not words, that single word, yes. You are inviting the Lord to transform your life.

A (44:49)

Maybe a fun thing to do with. My boys would say, who said this quote, I will go because I guarantee all of them will say, I know that, dad.

C (44:59)

Nephi.

A (45:00)

That's Nephi. Say, actually not this week. It's a teenager. Yeah, it's a young, but it's a girl this time.

B (45:08)

You can make a pretty good argument that Nephi is actually referring to, if not this exact phrase right here. In this specific verse, Nephi continually is drawing upon the brass plates in the Old Testament. That's an Old Testament phrase right there. Now, the moment of moments. They got to travel back 500 miles. This is really fun. I mean, you got the 10 camels and Rebekah and her damsels on it. Then they get closer. They're going to see Isaac walking in the field and then you're going to have the marriage. They encounter love at first sight. And people read these and they're like, oh, it's a romantic love story. And it is, but it's so much more if we unpack the symbolism. Surprise. Welcome to the Old Testament world. I'm going to expose my ignorance. Back in 1995, I went to a movie and it was the worst. It had Tom Hanks in it and I know it's got a 7.7 ranking on IMDb. The critics all loved it. It's a very popular movie. I'm sure you have heard of it. But it was absolutely the worst. I hated it. I was so excited because everybody was raving about it. The name of the movie is Apollo 13. It's all done. I'm walking out there. I'll never forget. I turned to my wife and I said, well, that was boring. That was awful. And she looks at me like, are you. What are you talking about? Where were the aliens? And she looks at me. It wasn't sci fi, that was based on a true story. And I looked at her. It is. I had no idea that it was okay. I know I should have known my history. I didn't know I was expecting a sci fi. And I was bored out of my mind.

A (47:10)

Didn't understand the genre.

B (47:12)

Yes, genre, 100%. I don't want to exaggerate, but it happens over and over again when I'm teaching at Utah Valley Institute of Religion or I've also taught at the BYU religion department and in seminary and with my neighbors and friends. They'll read something in the Bible. Typically it's the Old Testament, and they're like, I don't get this. Or a lot of times it's with Genesis 1, 2 or 3, with the endowment. And they're like, I'm getting so frustrated. Or this doesn't make sense. I'll tell you, 95% of the time, it's because they're reading it through a historical lens. The Bible is not an historical textbook. Or to quote President Nelson talking about the Book of Mormon. There is history in it, but it is not a historical textbook. I don't know how to teach that, you know, And I'll tell people, well, it's not a historical book. You've got to look for symbolism. They still struggle with it, but it will make all the difference if somehow we can shift our interpretive lens and start looking for symbolism and theological messages. If we run a fact checker through everything in the Bible, sometimes we're going to lose our faith. We're going to get confused. We're going to think God's weird and mean. But if we look for how to unpack it through a symbolic lens and identifying the correct genre. Can we give an example on. Let's do this with the conclusion of Genesis chapter 24.

A (48:41)

Okay.

C (48:42)

Symbolism is its own language.

B (48:45)

At first glance, it just seems like a nice romance between Isaac and Rebecca. Can we try something? I want us to read these verses, but every time we come to something that could be a symbol, I want us to remove the symbol and insert the meaning. For instance, Isaac, he arguably can be a symbol for. Let's go back to Genesis chapter 22. Abraham almost sacrifices him on the altar. Isaac, clearly. And that context is a symbol for Jesus. I would suggest that we need to carry that symbolism over here. So, Isaac, think Jesus, Rebekah, the woman. And Hank, you were referring to this earlier, right? O barren that bearest not. And we know that Rebekah is going to be barren here, right? Rebecca, according to Isaiah and other passages, she can serve as a symbol for the church or covenant Israel. Now let's read it through that lens. Starting in verse 61, Rebekah arose and her damsels. And they rode upon the camels and followed the man. And the servant took Rebekah and went his way. Now let's read it symbolically. And covenant Israel or the church members arose and her damsels. By the way, the word damsels Comes from the Hebrew word nahar. And I have a colleague and a friend in my PhD studies over in Amridge who just finished his dissertation. He did a survey of every time the word nahar appears right here for damsels. Sometimes it refers to women, sometimes it refers to men, but there's a lot of Hebrew words for boy, girls, lad, damsel, child. And they all come from this Hebrew word, nahar. But sometimes they use other Hebrew words like yelid, which means child. What he noticed after doing this comprehensive word study of nahar, that it refers to a high status. I would argue that when it says damsels, this is also referring to covenant Israel. These women and they. These covenant members rode upon the camels. And again, what do the camels symbolize? And all these goods that they're carrying?

A (51:15)

The blessings of the covenant.

B (51:17)

Yep, they're these covenant keepers. And they rode upon the camels and followed the man. The Hebrew word for man is evid, which means the servant. The prophets throughout the Hebrew Bible are often called the servants of the Lord. I would say that the servant should be like a prophet. And they followed the prophet, and the servant or the prophet took Rebekah or covenant Israel, and went his way. They're on the covenant path. Next verse. And Isaac came from the way of the well, Lahiroi, for he dwelt in the south country. Now, let's read it symbolically. And the Lord came from the way of the well. You got this water, this living water. And lahai roi in the Hebrew means well of life, of vision, or well of the living and seeing God. Jesus is coming from this well where he can see. He has this vision. Oh, and then it says, he dwelt in the south country. The south country is the Negev. It's the southernmost part of Israel. And it's a desert. It's dry. Often in the Old Testament, it symbolizes, yes, you're in the covenant, but it conveys a sense of sadness or loneliness. And Jesus wants to be married or have this covenant connection with his people, and it hasn't happened yet. So I think it's intentional that he's coming from this south country. Before I came on the podcast, I searched. I wouldn't say everywhere, but I did a pretty big search. I'm like, has anybody pointed out. There's probably somebody that's written an article on this, but if any of our listeners know of somebody that's explored this more fully, love to know.

C (53:25)

I like the parallel. Covenant Israel rode upon covenant blessings, followed the prophet. I like where you're going.

B (53:34)

Yeah.

A (53:35)

I have to say I'm impressed with Rebekah. You know, as you read this chapter, just when he meets her, she is running everywhere. She is moving 300 gallons of water to water these camels. Then when she finds out that this is God's plan for her, she's like, I will go. She leaves her family. I would think probably not going to see them again. I don't know if they would frequently travel that far, Mike. But that's. That's a long ways to go in that time. She's willing to sacrifice it, leave her family to go and be with Isaac. And that kind of plays into what you're telling us, too. We leave everything behind to go meet the Lord as Israel. Right. As covenant Israel. We leave it all behind to follow the prophet and go meet the groom. In this case, it's Isaac, but the Lord in the symbolism we've been talking about.

B (54:32)

I love that the covenant is joyous, but I love how, if I hear you right, Hank, you're also recognizing that sometimes keeping the covenant, it can be hard for some. It even puts a wedge in the family. I think the Lord acknowledges that as Rebecca's leaving. And like you said, they can even see each other again. And it's a big commitment.

A (54:58)

Yeah. Her family says, thou art our sister, but you go be the mother of thousands of millions.

C (55:07)

That's such a great phrase. Thousands of millions go.

A (55:11)

The Lord said, you leave your mother and father and you cleave to your spouse.

B (55:20)

Yeah. That doesn't just refer to your mortal parents. Yes, you leave them, but then you need to cleave to your spouse. And in the Bible context, your spouse. The spouse for covenant Israel is the bridegroom. You cleave to Jesus, yes, you'll cleave to your mortal spouse. But ultimately we should think, I've got to put Jesus first.

A (55:41)

It's such a good lens, Mike, to see. Whenever I see a marriage, especially in the Old Testament, I should be thinking, oh, Jehovah, Israel, Jehovah, Israel. Let me see the type there. What I can learn.

B (55:54)

Bullseye. Verse 63. Isaac went out to meditate in the field at eventide, and he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, the camels were coming. Okay, let's reread it again. Let's take out the symbols and insert the meaning. And the Lord went out to meditate. Now, the Hebrew word behind meditate only occurs here. Scholars aren't sure what it means, but the end of the day, they're like, I guess it means he's praying or meditating, but they really don't know. At least I haven't found anybody that's been definitive on it. Jesus is out praying in the field and throughout the scripture canon. Field often symbolizes this earth, this world. So he's on the earth now and it's at what time in earth's history? Eventide. It's at the end of times. This is the second coming. You can't skip this part. He lifted up his eyes. In verse 64, Rebecca later is going to lift up her eyes. This phrase, lift up her eyes. We've got to unpack. There is a Bible scholar, good Christian Bible scholar, who looked at every time this appeared in the Hebrew and it occurs 50 times, a lot of times in the KJV. You'll see not only lift up your eyes, but sometimes you'll see it translated as cast your eyes. He studied them all and he said, you know what? I've determined that this is a Hebrew idiom that can mean one of two things, depending on the genre. If it's a historical text, it means to make a close inspection or to take a close look. But if it's in a prophetic, revelatory genre type of text, then it means, and check this out, to have a vision or to have a revelation. Now stay with me because maybe I'm nerding out too much on this, but this really speaks to my soul. I wonder if that Hebrew idiom carries over into Latter Day Saint restoration scripture in the Book of Mormon Doctrine and Covenants. Pearl of great price. This phrase, lift up your eyes or cast your eyes. Lo and behold, what do we find? I think this scholar is absolutely right, and I don't think he's trying to prove to the world that the Book of Mormon is true. But wow, this is pretty cool. I should give credit to the scholar. It's by S C Reiff R E I F if anybody wants to look it up. The title of his article is to look up. Now look here in the Pearl. Gay Price Moses, Chapter one, it says that Moses lifted up his eyes. There's the idiom unto heaven being filled with the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son calling upon the name of God. What happens? He beheld his glory. He has a vision. He receives a revelation. Lehi first Nephi 8. The famous iron rod leading to the tree. He says, I cast my eyes round about that Perhaps I might discover my family also. But what does he see? He beholds the river of water, a tree and its Fruit, he is given this revelatory experience. You see this repeatedly in the Book of Mormon. Nephi and other prophets refer to how ancient Israel were murmuring. And then they get bitten by the poisonous serpents. Moses puts the brazen serpent on the pole. And then he says, you need to look. But the phrase is, you need to cast your eyes. That's the idiom here. And if you cast your eyes, then you'll be healed. Now, we can read that historically. Yeah, if you take a peek. Come on, dad, you're dying. Just turn your head and take a peek and you won't die. Okay, we can read it that way. I think the text is trying to say, if you will look to Jesus Christ, receive this fuller revelation, then that's when the healing comes. And you have in Helaman, the Nephi and Lehi, in the Book of Helaman, remember, they're in the Lamanite prison. They think they're going to be destroyed. But then it says, nephi and Lehi cast up their eyes as if to behold from whence the voice came. And behold, they saw the heavens open and angels came down out of heaven and ministered unto them. They have this revelation. And then, of course, we got to give the example out of three Nephi 11 that we've all read, the Nephites also heard a voice, the voice of Elohim the Father. And it says, and the voice came as if it were out of heaven. And they cast their eyes round about, for they understood not the voice which they heard. Now, I think here, where it says, cast their eyes roundabout, that's just a historical context. They're like, whoa, what did I just hear? What was that? And they're just trying to make a close inspection. They're trying to figure it out. They're not having a revelation yet. Then notice what. Keep reading. And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard. And it said unto them, behold, my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name. Hear ye him, verse 8. And it came to pass as they understood. Here it is again. The second time, they cast their eyes up again towards heaven, and behold, what do they see? A man descending out of it. Then they have this supernal revelatory experience. Not to belabor the point, but it's just so beautiful. Same thing in 3 Nephi 17. Jesus, he's been with them for, I think, three days. They're tired, they're tuckered out. And he says, he cast his eyes upon the multitude. He Sees that they're tired, and he tells him he has to go. And he sees them in tears. I think that's just an historical. He's just looking carefully into their eyes, trying to discern what they're feeling. Notice at the end of the chapter, this same idiom goes from just making a close inspection to a revelatory experience. After he blesses the children one by one, he tells the parents to behold your children. But what did they do? Instead it says, verse 24, the parents looked to behold their children, and they cast their eyes towards heaven, and they saw the heavens open, and they saw angels descending out of heaven as if it were in the midst of fire. There's other examples, but this phrase to lift up your eyes or to cast your eyes significantly can point to a revelatory experience. And I think that's exactly what's going on here in Genesis 24.

C (62:49)

Not in every case, perhaps, but in many cases. Watch for the phrase they cast their eyes. What the scholar wrote was, that's indicating a revelatory experience. Not just I look this way and that, but to cast. A revelation is coming.

B (63:04)

Yeah, a revelation or a vision.

C (63:06)

A vision, yeah.

B (63:08)

Yeah, exactly. Back to verse 63. So Isaac went out to meditate, or the Lord's going out in the field. He's coming to the world at the eventide, or at the Second Coming, he lifted up his eyes. So immediately, that Hebrew phrase is inviting us as readers to start viewing this through a symbolic revelatory lens. Or you can read it just historically. That's fine. Like, you can picture it. Oh, Isaac. Like, whoa, those camels. Could that be my wife? He's making a close inspection. He's trying to look carefully. You can read it historically, and that's fine. That's correct. But then I would suggest to our readers or our listeners that we then got to go to this symbolic way of reading it. Notice three times you have this emphasis of seeing. He lifted up his eyes. He saw. And behold, this 3 Pete idea of I can't believe my eyes. I've been waiting all my life to find the somebody to marry. This is the moment of moments. That verse is just filled with that thrill, that emotion. And then verse 64, and Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel. Now let's read it symbolically. This is my new favorite verse. She lighted off the camel. Or in other words, if you read other modern Bible versions, they'll say, she dismounted off the camel. And that's a good translation. The Word lifted comes from the Hebrew word naphal. The fall means what? It sounds like. It means to fall down, literally. But I can just see the 16, 11 KJV translators. They're like, the camel's about six feet high off the ground. I don't think she's going to fall down. That would hurt. We can't say she fell off the camel. Let's just say she lighted.

A (65:13)

She lighted off. That's what I say. When I fell, I lighted down those stairs. I just.

B (65:20)

Yeah, you look at all the other Bible versions. Niv, Sav. Nrsv. All these really good Bible translations. None of them, unless I'm mistaken, but I don't think they go with she falls off because it just sounds too weird. But it's not weird if you read it symbolically. When we see Jesus, what are we gonna do? We're gonna fall to the ground. I think that's what the text is trying to tell us. It's first Nephi, chapter eight. When they finally get to the tree and the fruit and they partake. Yeah, they fall down. When you're in the presence of the Lord, that's all you can do. You just melt. I love what the Septuagint does with this, which is the Greek version. The word that the Septuagint uses means to leap or to jump. She jumps off the camel. I just love that imagery. When we see Jesus again, we are going to leap for joy. We're just going to be a puddle of grateful, joyful tears as we fall to the ground. We can't even imagine it. But this text is beautifully trying to convey that imagery.

A (66:34)

That's fantastic. Seeing this. Isaac, Rebecca, as Jesus and Israel transforms the chapter.

B (66:42)

Verse 65. And she had said unto the servant, what man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, it is my master. Therefore she took a veil and covered herself. Should we unpack the symbolism? 65 for covenant, Israel had said unto the servant, the prophet, what man is this that's walking in the field? Or that has come down to earth to meet us? Who is this? It's the same reaction we got in three Nephi 11. They saw a man descending. They thought it was an angel. But like, who's this man descending out of heaven? It's the prophet that explains it is my master. And that's where it clicks for, oh, this is the person I'm going to marry. But from a symbolic point of, oh, this is the bridegroom. If this is Jesus appearing in all his glory, what are you and I going to do? You're going to take a veil and you're going to cover yourself. Now, historically, all Bible commentators will say, oh, this is an ancient Near Eastern practice to show modesty. And it indicates that you're going to get married. You're the bride. That's a legit historical interpretation. Then the text is building on that culture to also point to throughout Scripture, when you have a veil on your face, it's to protect you. It signifies that you need to be transfigured so you can withstand the glory and power of God. Verse 66. The servant told Isaac all things that he had done. The prophet is going to give his report of accountability. The prophets are the Lord's right hand man, anciently, and today that has always been the pattern. Then it ends with this. I love verse 67. And Hank, this goes back to how you mentioned Isaiah 54. Isaac brought her into his mother's. Oh man, I just want to cry. And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent and took Rebecca and she became his wife. And he loved her. And Isaac was comforted after his mother's death. Death. Okay, and we can read that historically, it is a beautiful romance. They're married, they're together finally, and they love each other. It's sweet, it's tender, it's beautiful. But let's read it symbolically. It's the Lord that initiates this, brought us covenant Israel into Sarah's tent. Sarah's tent isn't just some canvas structure to protect us from the wind. In the Hebrew Bible, tent repeatedly refers to the temple or the tabernacle of Moses. And in Isaiah 54 that you were talking about, verse one, it says, Enlarge the tent. Make room. Not just so that we can have everybody. I mean, we have almost 400 temples on the earth today. It's not just we want people to go to the temple, but God wants the entire earth to be a temple. He wants his presence to dwell and he wants us to dwell here on the earth with him. Ultimately, that's the destiny of the earth, to become one large temple where God can be with us. 24 7. The Savior's bringing us his bride into the tent. Or I would say his presence. And he took Rebekah. This is beautiful. It doesn't say it, but it's implied. This is the moment where the veil is removed. And to quote Moroni, chapter seven, we can see him as he is. She became his wife and he loved her. And this is so beautiful. Isaac was comforted you'd expect that it would say, and Rebekah was comforted because it's Jesus who's going to comfort us. He's going to wipe away all our tears and there'll be no more pain or sorrow. But isn't it so beautiful that. Yes, of course Jesus is going to comfort us in all our trials, and he'll make up all the unfairness of life to us. But I think it's so beautiful that also Jesus, in some way that I don't comprehend, he is feeling comforted that we have made this covenant. In fact, as thrilled as we are to be back with him again someday, the text seems to suggest to me that his thrill matches our own, maybe even surpasses it. He becomes comforted.

C (71:34)

It reminds me of the comment he makes in Third Nephi. Now my joy is full seeing this

A (71:41)

Isaac and Rebecca story as Jehovah and his love for Israel. One thing I noticed that you already hit was Rebecca has to choose this over and over and over. She's never forced to do anything. And it seems that way for us, Israel. The Lord will never force Israel to be the covenant people. You choose to come to me.

B (72:06)

Your own free will and choice.

A (72:09)

Coming up in Part two.

B (72:11)

Here's the moment of moments. It gets intense. If this was a movie, the crescendo, the music is building and building. You know those scenes where the armies are charging after you and there's going to be. It's really intense. It's kind of like that.