Podcast Summary: followHIM — "The Family: A Proclamation to the World, Part 1"

Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Sister Carol Costley
Episode Date: December 10, 2025
Topic: The Family: A Proclamation to the World (Come, Follow Me, December 15–21)

Overview

This episode opens a thoughtful, deeply personal exploration of "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" as part of the LDS Church's Come, Follow Me curriculum. Sister Carol Costley joins hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway to discuss the meaning, history, and practical application of the proclamation as it reaches its 30th anniversary. Carol shares her testimony, personal journey from London to the United States, her experience as a convert and Young Women General Advisory Council member, and her perspective as a therapist working in addiction recovery. The discussion emphasizes the universality and healing power of family—even in imperfection—and how we can defend, adapt, and find hope in the doctrine outlined by modern prophets.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Proclamation's Significance Then and Now

• The 30th anniversary marks a timely reflection on the enduring relevance of the proclamation.
• Hank reflects on not initially being surprised by its contents as a teenager in 1995 and how, since then, societal norms have shifted while the proclamation remains steady.
  • (01:43) "I remember not being overly shocked by anything in the proclamation...Since then, the world has changed and the proclamation has held steady." — Hank Smith

2. Finding Identity and Belonging Despite Life's Unexpected Pathways

• Carol recounts joining the Church as a single woman in her 30s, feeling "invisible" and fearing she might never marry, but finding deep reassurance in the proclamation's doctrine of divine identity and belonging.
  • (02:23–04:14) "Within that proclamation, there were some things that really stood out. Was that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ were aware of me...The proclamation then became my compass." — Carol Costley
• She emphasizes that the doctrine applies to all circumstances—not just traditional ones—and that every journey is unique and sacred.

3. The Power of Spiritual and Earthly Family

• The family pattern is divinely designed, with earthly families meant to echo the heavenly one.
• Even without the archetypal family, Carol describes always being a "permanent member" of her Heavenly Father's family and investing in relationships with siblings, nieces, and nephews.
  • (08:04) "Even though I didn't have a family of myself, I was a permanent member of my Heavenly Father's family. Nothing could ever change that." — Carol Costley

4. Personal Journey Through Family Hardship and Immigration

• Carol’s Jamaican-British-American upbringing, periods of family separation, and integration into new cultures are shared candidly.
• She details the challenges of her family emigrating from London to New York, cultural adjustment, racism, and the healing embrace of her ward family in New York.
  • (16:17–27:00) Powerful stories of being "desperate for Sundays" and how her ward family became her lifeline.

5. Imperfect Families and Christ at the Center of Healing

• The sacredness and struggle within both her family and scriptural families (Book of Mormon/Genesis) are acknowledged, highlighting that imperfection is the norm—even among “chosen” families.
• John references Lehi’s and Jacob's hardships as scriptural parallels.
  • (18:11) "Isn't it wonderful that the Book of Mormon starts out with a family that really struggled..." — John Bytheway

6. Role of the Ward as Family

• Carol extols the embracing nature of the Westchester Ward in New York, which accepted her and her sister, exemplifying the role the ward plays as spiritual and emotional family for many.
  • (27:00–31:10) "If you don't have a family, sometimes your ward family can be that family..." — Carol Costley

7. Generational Healing and Temple Work

• The possibility of families being united beyond the grave is a major theme motivating her advocacy for the proclamation.
• She relates doing family history and temple work for relatives, including siblings who passed away, underscoring the eternal scope of family relationships.

8. Addiction, Family Support, and Validation

• Drawing from her work as an addiction therapist, Carol illustrates the fundamental impact of family validation and support—or the lack thereof—in recovery.
• She shares clients' stories about the "one person" (often not parents) who was a lifeline to them.
  • (36:39) “There is always one person...that was their lifeline, that supported and loved them through a particular situation.” — Carol Costley

9. Doctrine of Eternal Identity and Gender

• The panel explores how gender and divine identity are declared as essential and eternal characteristics in the proclamation—a counterpoint to current societal confusion.
• Carol expresses empathy for those who struggle to fit into this ideal and draws strength from the assurance that “you fit,” as repeated by President Nelson and Elder Rasband.
  • (60:50) “With the gender confusion that we're having right now, I think it's important that this is reaffirmed, that gender is an essential characteristic of individual, premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” — Carol Costley

10. Teaching Children About Adversity and Opposition

• The hosts and Carol stress the importance of parents teaching children about the adversary’s tactics using the Book of Mormon as a simulator of real-world opposition.
• Carol shares a personal parenting story about losing her temper and her daughter’s perceptive response, underscoring the value of age-appropriate but direct conversations about spiritual opposition.
  • (57:26) “I am so, so sorry...She looks at me and she goes, that's okay, Mommy. I knew Satan had you.” — Carol Costley

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family Identity (09:44):
  "I am a child of God. I am a child of the covenant and I am his disciple. When President Nelson made those statements, it really echoed in my heart. No one is outside looking in. We are all his spirit children and all essential members of his plan." — Carol Costley

• On the Eternal Scope of Family (37:43):
  "It lets me know the family that I was born into was my avenue of getting toward the Savior." — Carol Costley

• On Parental Love and Healing (16:17):
  "Whether our family is in an ideal situation or a family that's adapting, as we strive to follow Jesus Christ, our families can become sanctuaries and places where we can experience growth, healing, and lasting joy." — Carol Costley

• On the Need for Validation (32:02):
  "One of the things that they feel [in addiction recovery] is not being validated...not getting a second chance once they recover. That is a very big challenge for them." — Carol Costley

• On the Proclamation as Inspired Doctrine (39:21):
  "Prayerfully, we continually pleaded with the Lord for His inspiration on what we should say and how we should say it. We all learned line upon line, precept upon precept, as the Lord has promised. These words are important." — Elder Dallin H. Oaks, quoted by John Bytheway

• On Teaching Spiritual Opposition (54:58):
  "The Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ. It confounds false doctrine. It fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies and doctrines of the devil in our day." — President Ezra Taft Benson, quoted by Hank Smith

• On Divine Nature and Destiny (46:44–47:38):
  "I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents with a divine nature and eternal destiny." — Carol Costley, reciting the Young Women Theme she helped draft

Key Timestamps

• 01:43 — Hank reminisces about 1995 and the original proclamation.
• 02:23 — Carol’s conversion, feelings of invisibility, and foundation in divine identity.
• 08:04 — Embracing identity as a child of God, regardless of circumstance.
• 16:17 — Family’s emotional upheaval and the centrality of Christ in healing.
• 24:57 — Carol’s adaptation to US schools and life in New York.
• 27:00 — The Westchester Ward as a surrogate family.
• 32:02 — Compassion for those with addiction and need for validation.
• 37:43 — The family as a conduit to the Savior.
• 46:44 — The Young Women Theme and its origin.
• 54:58 — Using the Book of Mormon to teach about recognizing the adversary.
• 60:50 — Gender as an eternal, divinely assigned identity.

Tone and Style

The tone throughout is warm, faithful, personal, and empathetic, with moments of candor, humor, and vulnerability. Carol’s openness about her challenges, as well as her emotional and spiritual triumphs, brings authenticity and hope to listeners. Hank and John guide the discussion with genuine curiosity, weaving doctrinal, scriptural, and practical insights with Carol’s experiences.

Concluding Insights

• The proclamation’s doctrine remains a guiding, restorative influence amid evolving societal norms.
• All listeners can find belonging and hope—regardless of their family’s shape or spiritual journey.
• The realities of family struggle are not incompatible with spiritual growth; through Christ, these become avenues for healing, compassion, and resilience.
• The work of strengthening families is intimately linked with knowing our true identity and defending God’s pattern of happiness, regardless of the challenges or imperfections along the way.

This episode concludes with the promise of Part 2, in which Carol will further discuss her conversion, the impact of learning about the priesthood and her powerful story of faith and advocacy.