followHIM Podcast Summary

Episode: The Family: A Proclamation to the World, Part 2
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Sister Carol Costley
Date: December 10, 2025

Overview

This episode is the second part of a thoughtful exploration of “The Family: A Proclamation to the World.” Sister Carol Costley, an experienced counselor, mother, and Church leader, joins hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway to discuss both the “ideal” and “realities” of family life, while providing practical, hope-filled counsel for individuals and families navigating challenges. Particular focus is given to extending Christlike love in non-traditional family situations, the importance of consistency in gospel living, and the sustaining power of faith, repentance, and extended family relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ideal vs. the Real in Family Life (00:01 – 01:11)

• Aspiring Without Shame: The family proclamation sets forth ideals toward which to strive, not standards by which to judge or shame.
  • “I hope people don’t read this and use it as a club to beat themselves with. My family’s not perfect. This is showing us an ideal.” – John (00:04)
• Progress is the Goal: The language of the proclamation (“as they progress toward perfection”) offers hope and direction, especially for youth unsure of their family’s future.

2. Christlike Love and Inclusion — Especially for LGBTQ+ Family Members (01:11–04:35)

• Church Teachings on Inclusion: The Gospel Library’s Life Help section reaffirms that all, including transgender members, belong and deserve sensitive, Christlike love.
  • “You are deserving of Christlike love just as much as any of God’s children, and you should be treated with sensitivity, kindness, and compassion.” – Quoting the Church’s resource (02:01)
• Rejecting ‘Tough Love’: Sister Costley shares her strong belief in always keeping the family door open, especially for struggling children.
  • “The family is the source of healing. That’s where we heal... I am not a fan of tough love. I’m not a fan of cutting people off.” – Carol Costley (02:51)
• Family Support’s Power: Family support is crucial for overcoming depression, addiction, and other challenges.

3. Repair and Repentance in Relationships (05:12–12:16)

• The Power of Apology and Repair: Healing family rifts is possible through genuine apologies and action.
  • “That apology can begin the process of repair. But the critical piece... is the repair of the relationship that’s damaged or broken.” – Carol Costley (05:12)
• Personal Story — Adoption & Parenting Struggles: Carol shares her adoption story and parenting struggles, illustrating the complexity and grace possible in imperfect families.
• Serving While Imperfect: Carol was called to high Church service during a period of family turmoil, showing that one’s imperfections do not disqualify them from service or testimony.
  • “To think that things have to be perfect... It is not true. We can have testimonies about lots of different things, and together they’ll build a very strong testimony.” – Carol Costley (09:09)

4. Hope, Patience, and Planting Seeds (12:16–15:14)

• Seed Planting: Small, seemingly unsuccessful efforts (such as reading scripture with resistant children) can have lasting effects.
  • “For anyone out there that thinks they’re not planting the seeds of the gospel and a child is not listening, it is not true.” – Carol Costley (12:17)
• Imperfect Families Still Loved by God: Being a single parent or part of a “non-ideal” family does not preclude experiencing blessings and raising strong children.
• Church Leaders’ Realities: Even leaders like Elder Oaks came from less-than-ideal family circumstances.

5. The ‘Long Game’ — Trusting God’s Timing (15:33–22:55)

• God’s Perspective is Larger: God is invested in the outcomes of our families and children over the long term, often far beyond our view or timeline.
  • “He has the long game in mind. Our timing… We can trust a God who loves his children...” – John (15:33)
• Stories of Hope: Anecdotes from President Eyring and Elder Bednar reinforce the value of persistent love, consistent but imperfect family worship, and the eventual fruits of faithful effort.

6. Consistency in Gospel Living (19:34–22:55)

• Daily Efforts Matter: The power in family gospel practices comes from consistency, not perfection.
  • “Results... do not occur each time we study or pray... it’s the consistency of our intent.” – Quoting Elder Bednar (20:03)
• Willingness Over Excellence: The Savior values our willingness to try, not our perfection.
  • “Heavenly Father just wants someone who is willing.” – Carol Costley (22:23)

7. Accountability and Prayer in Parenting (23:02–28:48)

• Parental Accountability: The proclamation stresses teaching children in love, providing for physical/spiritual needs, and being accountable to God.
• Seasons of Life: Not every season allows for every ideal; trust that God is “quite satisfied with where [you] are at.”
• The Power of Prayer: The scriptural example of Alma (Mosiah 27:14) illustrates generational influence through prayer — a parent’s or community’s faith can change lives.

8. Extended Family and Community Support (28:48–32:07)

• Ward Family Role: Church members, neighbors, and extended family can step up when parents are weary or unable.
• The Value of Work: Hard, sometimes unglamorous, work within the home is vital for happiness and personal growth.
  • “Work is key to a happy life. Depriving children of work is not a blessing.” – Hank (36:36)
• Sustaining Each Other: Grandparents and ward members can provide crucial support and step into parental roles when needed.

9. Repentance, Judgment, and Compassion (32:07–36:02)

• Repentance as Joy, Not Shame: Repentance is a daily, hopeful process of change—a “fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world.”
  • “If I wasn’t repenting, that wasn’t a good thing. That was an aha moment for me…” – Carol Costley (32:42)
• Avoiding Judgment: Extend kindness to those repenting from visible or stigmatized sins.
  • “Don’t judge me because I sin differently than you.” – Hank (35:49)
• Christlike Communication: President Nelson’s counsel—“They do not need your judgment. They need to experience the pure love of Jesus Christ...”

10. Adapting Through Non-Ideal Circumstances (40:50–46:44)

• Proclamation Permits Adaptation: The document explicitly acknowledges life’s realities: disability, death, individual adaptation, and the role of extended families.
  • “He’s giving us permission or understanding for those adaptions to occur. If we don’t have an ideal structure, that’s important.” – Carol Costley (40:50)
• Blended & Rebuilt Families: Carol shares touching stories of healing and cooperation in blended families, and the importance of minimizing adversarial dynamics after divorce or remarriage.

11. The Long-Term Effects of Choices (46:44–49:01)

• Consequences Echo for Generations: Poor decisions or broken covenants can deeply impact children and future generations — but family, including grandparents, can also step in to heal.
  • “The price to be paid for our choices sometimes gets paid by our children and our grandchildren...” – Hank, quoting Elder Holland (46:44)
• Leaders Faced Trials Too: President Oaks’ difficult childhood reinforces that everyone faces and can overcome hardships.

12. Ongoing Faith Amidst Challenges (49:01–58:17)

• The Struggles of Church Leaders: General Authorities share their mental health struggles, showing the universality of hardship and the possibility of Christ’s sustaining power.
  • “It allows us to see ourselves and to see the potential... to still continue in a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ…” – Carol Costley (49:01)
• Why Carol Believes: Personal testimony of the Lord’s guidance through racial struggle, financial hardship, family challenges, and her journey to finding peace and belonging in the Church.
  • “When you know, you know…” – Carol (51:58)
  • “I believe because I have seen the fruits of this gospel and what it can bring into my life, even when things have been hard.” — Carol (56:40)
  • Story of a specific, needed financial blessing received after obeying tithing.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Repentance:
  “Repentance is a daily, ongoing process...the Lord working in us to change our hearts.” – John (32:42)
• On Not Judging:
  “Don’t judge me because I sin differently than you—or more loudly.” – Hank & Carol (35:49–35:55)
• On Willingness:
  “Heavenly Father just wants someone who is willing... just willing to take the first step into the darkness.” – Carol (22:23)
• On Work in Family:
  “Work is key to a happy life... Taking away someone’s struggle is actually not helpful at times.” – Hank (36:36)
• On Family Support for LGBTQ+ Members:
  “I am not a fan of tough love... if this unit is by divine design, then everybody should have access to a loving and supportive unit.” – Carol (02:51)
• On God's "Long Game":
  “You cannot behold with your natural eyes the design of your God concerning those things which shall come hereafter. He’s got you...” – John (15:33)
• Sister Costley’s Testimony:
  “I have seen the Lord’s hand in my life getting me from London, England to Brigham Young University…. And I have felt His testimony: to be this obscure girl from London, England, to be called to serve on His council, tells me that I am cherished and that I am loved.” – Carol (53:45)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Real vs. Ideal Family in the Proclamation: 00:01–01:11
• LGBTQ+ Family Members & Christlike Love: 01:11–04:35
• Repairing Family Relationships: 05:12–12:16
• The Power of Planting Seeds & Consistency: 12:16–22:55
• Accountability and Power of Prayer: 23:02–28:48
• Community and Extended Family Support: 28:48–32:07
• Repentance, Judgment, and the Repentance Process: 32:07–36:02
• Importance of Work: 36:02–39:29
• Proclamation’s Provisions for Adaptation & Blended Families: 40:50–46:44
• Long-Term Consequences and Grandparent Influence: 46:44–49:01
• Church Leaders’ Struggles & Jesus’ Support: 49:01–51:58
• Carol’s Personal Testimony: 51:58–58:17

Conclusion

Sister Carol Costley’s wisdom, vulnerability, and faith infuse the conversation with hope for every family, regardless of circumstance. The episode underscores that the principles in the family proclamation—faith, prayer, repentance, love, and work—apply to all, and through Christ’s grace, healing and happiness are available in every kind of family. The hosts and guest reassure listeners that perfection is not required, only a willing heart.

Final Thought

“Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to Him. Follow Him.” – Hank Smith (59:43)