Podcast Summary: followHIM – Episode: D&C 37-40 Part 1 • Dr. Christopher Jones • April 21-27 • Come Follow Me

Release Date: April 16, 2025

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of the followHIM podcast, hosts Hank Smith and John Bytheway delve deep into Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) sections 37-40 with their esteemed guest, Dr. Christopher Jones, a prominent historian from Brigham Young University (BYU). The discussion not only explores the historical and theological significance of these scriptures but also uncovers new insights into the life of James Covell, a figure long shrouded in mystery within Latter-day Saint history.

Guests and Their Backgrounds

Hank Smith and John Bytheway introduce their guest, Dr. Christopher Jones, highlighting his extensive background in Early American history, American religious history, the history of slavery and the slave trade, and family history. Dr. Jones is notably the co-editor of Missionary Interests: Protestant and Mormon Missions in the 19th and 20th Centuries and co-author of a book with David Golding published by Cornell University Press. He also serves as the editor of the Journal of Mormon History and resides in South Jordan with his wife Kerim and their four active children.

Exploring D&C Sections 37-40

Sections 37-38: The Call to Ohio

Dr. Jones begins by providing a historical backdrop to D&C sections 37 and 38. These sections mark a pivotal moment in the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commanding members to gather in Ohio.

Dr. Christopher Jones (02:19): "These scriptures can come to life for us as readers as we delve deeply into the historical background of the people, places, and events mentioned."

He emphasizes the significance of these commands, considering the immense challenges early saints faced in relocating from New York to the unfamiliar frontier of Ohio. Unlike today's relatively easier relocations, the journey in 1830 involved arduous travel during harsh winters, often on foot, making the command to move a monumental and faith-testing endeavor.

Hank Smith (02:58): "Every historian, John, that we've talked to has said something like, my fear is not that you'll know too much church history. My fear is that you'll know too little."

Sections 39-40: The Story of James Covell

The conversation shifts to sections 39 and 40, where Dr. Jones introduces James Covell—a Methodist preacher whose revelations were long misattributed due to historical inaccuracies. Initially identified as a Baptist minister in early church records, recent archival discoveries reveal that Covell was, in fact, a Methodist.

Dr. Christopher Jones (23:31): "We finally found him."

This revelation fundamentally changes the interpretation of sections 39 and 40, highlighting the intricate dynamics between different Protestant denominations in early 19th-century America and their influence on the nascent Latter-day Saint movement.

Dr. Jones’s Research on James Covell

Dr. Jones recounts his journey in uncovering the true identity of James Covell. Through meticulous research, including collaboration with the Joseph Smith Papers Project and extensive archival work at Drew University's Methodist archives, he corrected historical records:

1. Identification: Initially mistaken as a Baptist, Covell was correctly identified as a Methodist preacher.
2. Archival Discoveries: Manuscript versions from the Book of Commandments and Revelations clarified Covell’s Methodist affiliation.
3. Implications for Interpretation:
   • Methodist Influence: Understanding Covell’s Methodist background sheds light on his initial attraction to and eventual departure from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
   • Doctrine and Practices: Methodists and Baptists had differing views on baptism, church organization, and proselytizing methods, which influenced Covell’s response to the revelations.

Dr. Christopher Jones (46:53): "Baptists and Methodists were bitter rivals in antebellum America, and they were both the most successful evangelical churches of the day."

By recognizing Covell’s true religious roots, Dr. Jones reveals a more nuanced understanding of his acceptance and rejection of the Latter-day Saint message, moving beyond the simplistic interpretation of Covell succumbing to worldly temptations.

Message of Grace and Hope

A significant takeaway from the episode is the portrayal of God's grace and enduring love, even for those who falter. Dr. Jones argues that the final words of section 40—"it remaineth with me to do with him as seemeth me good"—should not be viewed as a punitive threat but rather as a testament to God's unwavering commitment to His children.

Dr. Christopher Jones (60:05): "The God I worship is not some vengeful God who is like, ooh, now I get to do with him whatever I want."

He illustrates this by sharing the enduring legacy of James Covell, who continued to lead a life of service and spirituality despite his departure from the church, demonstrating that God's hand remains supportive and purposeful.

Dr. Christopher Jones (65:15): "Knowing someone's backstory increases how we extend more grace."

Personal Insights from Hosts

Hank Smith and John Bytheway reflect on their personal experiences and the broader implications of Dr. Jones's research:

• Hank Smith shares a touching story about his wife's grandmother, a first-generation church member who became inactive due to hardships but continued to live a spiritually rich life, positively influencing her family and community.

  Hank Smith (66:56): "I think of your question about a listener at home saying, I don't know if I can do this difficult thing that I've been asked to do."

• John Bytheway emphasizes the importance of understanding individual backstories to avoid judgment and foster a more compassionate and grace-filled community.

  John Bytheway (65:37): "When we talk about people who aren't here to defend themselves, we call it gossip. Does it change because they've died? It's still gossip, isn't it?"

Conclusion and Future Directions

The episode concludes with a promise of a continuation in Part Two, where Dr. Jones will further explore James Covell's life and the lasting impact of his story on modern Latter-day Saint teachings and personal faith journeys.

Hank Smith (72:30): "Coming up in part two of this episode."

Dr. Jones’s research not only corrects historical inaccuracies but also enriches the theological discourse surrounding D&C sections 37-40, offering listeners a profound message of hope, resilience, and the boundless nature of divine grace.

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Christopher Jones (02:19): "These scriptures can come to life for us as readers as we delve deeply into the historical background of the people, places, and events mentioned."

• John Bytheway (65:37): "When we talk about people who aren't here to defend themselves, we call it gossip. Does it change because they've died? It's still gossip, isn't it?"

• Dr. Christopher Jones (60:05): "The God I worship is not some vengeful God who is like, ooh, now I get to do with him whatever I want."

Final Thoughts

This episode of followHIM serves as a compelling exploration of how historical research can profoundly influence our understanding of sacred texts and individual faith narratives. By uncovering the true identity of James Covell, Dr. Christopher Jones not only rectifies historical records but also imparts a timeless lesson on grace, understanding, and the enduring love of God.

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