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- [00:00]
A
The presenting sponsor of Food Safety Matters is Zebra Technologies. Zebra's environmental sensors monitor temperature sensitive products, offering data insights on environmental conditions across industry. Applications that elevate your supply chain visibility. As part of today's episode, listeners will hear from John o', Fallon, senior manager of Environmental Sensors, who will discuss applications for ready to use indicators, printable indicators, electronic sensors, and data loggers. To learn more, visit Zebra.com hello everyone, and welcome to Food Safety Matters, the podcast for food safety professionals. I'm Stacy Atchison, publisher of Food Safety magazine, and I want to thank you for tuning in to part two of our Live from the Food Safety Summit coverage. Today you'll hear interviews, my Food Safety Matters co hosts, Adrienne Blum, Food Safety Matters Editorial Director, and Bob Ferguson, president of Strategic Consulting, conducted in front of live audiences in our beautiful podcast theater in the heart of the community hub at the 2025 Food Safety Conference and Expo that concluded last week in Rosemont, Illinois. So I'm imagining that at some point in today's episode, you're going to be thinking, hey, I wish I was there. You know, let's fix that for next year. The summit will once again be held in convenient and affordable Rosemont, Illinois, May 11 through the 14th, 2026. Save the date now, go ahead, put it on your calendar, put it in your budget, and I'll see you there. All right, now I'm going to step away here and let you hear those interviews with Sharon Beals, fellow founder of skkb Peter Taormina, founder and president of Aetna Consulting Group Sandra Eskin, CEO of Stop Foodborne Illness John o', Fallon, senior manager of Environmental sensors at Zebra Technologies, Monica Khoury, senior quality expert at Nestle, and Lily Yasuda, program Manager at the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness. All right, here we go.
- [02:25]
B
So welcome back to the Podcast Theater Live. We appreciate you all sitting in on these interviews. I hope you find them insightful. And I'm very pleased to have with me today Sharon beals, founder of SKKB, and Dr. Peter Taormina, founder and President of Aetna Consulting Group. And so thanks to you both for joining us at the podcast today. Appreciate it, Adrian.
- [02:47]
C
Thanks for having us, Adrian.
- [02:48]
B
So you both spoke on a session yesterday about the function and limitations of finished product testing. So firstly, how should food safety and quality teams properly assess what they want to test for finished product and the reasons for doing so?
- [03:07]
D
Well, in my humble opinion, and I said this the other day, it starts with your intended product use. How is it going to eventually get to the final consumer. Is it something that's going to be, as one of my ex bosses at ibp, is it thaw and gnaw where literally it comes into a store frozen, it's just going to be slacked out and go on a salad which somebody may put in their car and ride around town for two hours in July. So do you need to have inhibitors in it? You know, do you need to do something with it? Do you need to if it's a ready to eat product? Heavy environmental testing is the finished product testing, you know, probably less so, but it starts with intended product use.
- [03:49]
C
For me, I would say that the hazard analysis should drive what you're going to end up doing as far as finished product testing. So as you go through each ingredient that's an input into the process and then every process step you'll identify the biological, chemical, physical hazards. And then any controls along the way need to be verified with different techniques. And one of those is finished product testing. It does have a place in the whole picture. But I think what our point was yesterday is it's not the be all.
- [04:25]
D
And end all of everything because statistically to get to a significant level, as Peter demonstrated yesterday, you got to test a lot of product and then there's nothing to eat.
- [04:37]
B
Yeah. So, you know, how often would you say that end product testing really needs to be performed and you know, when should how you're testing or what you're testing be reevaluated or reviewed for a product?
- [04:53]
C
So how often? Yeah, that's sort of the tension between. It speaks to the tension between the supplier and the customer. And I think Sharon and I both have been on both sides of that in different points in our career or helped companies in different ways with that. So from a customer perspective, they want every lot tested and they want a lot of samples per lot. And from a supplier perspective, they want to manage things through their HACCP plan or food safety plan and all the inputs of how they're controlling the process. So the frequency, I think it depends on perspective. And then changing that should be determined by any kind of data you're collecting in the process that might indicate, hey, we need to do more or we've been stable for many years and we don't need to do as much.
- [05:49]
D
You know, Eva Swaney said it best. When you're developing a new product or you're becoming a new supplier, let's put a finite timeline together. Often in the food safety quality space, we'll put something goes wrong, you put in A corrective action and you don't put an endpoint on it and you are stuck doing stuff forever that no longer provides value. So as Peter said, what are the data telling you? Let's measure this daily for 30 days. Weekly for the next 30, monthly for the next 30 after that one. What is that? What are the data telling us? What's the mean time between failure and you? Let the data drive your frequency, which applies to so many things. I mean steam tending. When I joined Maple Leaf Foods we steam tended every slicer every four weeks regardless.
- [06:39]
B
Yeah.
- [06:40]
D
Moving over and moving forward. Let the data tell us how often we have to perform that task so that we stay ahead of a problem and it's no longer.
- [06:50]
E
Every four weeks.
- [06:53]
B
Oh, sorry, go ahead.
- [06:54]
C
I was just thinking that's a great point because there's a lot to do for food safety and quality professionals and, and operations people and maintenance. Everybody, everybody who's involved in making safe food. And when you just for in for infinity you're doing this testing, it really adds up over time.
- [07:12]
D
There's a lot of time is very if, if the COVID taught us nothing. Time is precious and life is short. So that time is the most precious commodity that we have. We have to spend it wisely on activities and actions that make a difference. And that's where the data come in.
- [07:33]
B
You know that kind of brings up just a quick follow up question, kind of a bonus question. But when you talk about frequency and things like that, is there would there ever be reason where you would need to. To take more than one or test more than one test the same lot or the same sample more than once? Like if you have it for a retained sample program. Is there, is there any reason why that's ever done that you can think of maybe for a.
- [07:59]
D
Well, you can't test your way out of a positive if it's a pathogen.
- [08:04]
B
Yeah, right.
- [08:05]
D
And so that's point number one. You have to be careful. Did you split the lot or you know, as we used to call it an IBP 0157 lot days broken arrow. You know, we split the lot. Oh my God, we've lost control. So test, testing and retesting. If, especially if you got a positive the first time, you just. Why bother? Yeah, you're not going to be able to test your way out of unless you're talking 0157 and you've got a ground beef system. You've got the A set, you've got the B set, you've got have a composite. Because as Jennifer Talked about point source contamination. We've demonstrated over the years that the system will clean itself because it, it travels with the product as opposed to listeria, which is environmental and sets up shop within the equipment. That's why listeria, we're still talking cleanup to cleanup.
- [08:55]
F
Okay.
- [08:56]
C
Yeah. That was one of Jennifer Williams's points yesterday was have all this worked out beforehand and don't try to change. However, if you've gotten all negatives then and there's still questions or somebody brings some new information, I think maybe occasionally it could be, it could be important to do additional testing maybe for something else, maybe index organisms or something like that.
- [09:23]
B
Okay, yeah. Just curious. So during your session you also discussed when and why environmental testing can be more powerful than end product testing. So what learnings came out of the session on this topic?
- [09:37]
D
You know, environmental testing. I joined Maple leaf Foods in 2010, which was after the 2008 August event, and we did a ton of environmental testing and really looking for it. Far more powerful than the verification product testing that we did because you get a lot more data. You can collect big samples. You can literally take a cloth and swab walls. You can, you can collect really big samples and collect really good data that will tell you, are we keeping it at bay? We all know Listeria is outside in the soil. I've learned not to say dirt. It's outside in the soil and it you want to keep, that's where you want to keep it.
- [10:20]
B
Right.
- [10:21]
D
So really heavily focusing in on those zones, 4, 3, 2 with zone 1 testing. No. No question.
- [10:28]
B
Yeah.
- [10:29]
D
But making sure you're keeping it at bay, that's where the environmental to me is, is can be extremely more powerful. For Listeria 0157, totally different animal, no pun intended.
- [10:40]
B
Uhhuh.
- [10:41]
C
I echo all of that. I think most food safety professionals would rather have that data of what's going on in my supplier's environment. It would be nice to see more of that sharing going on between suppliers and customers. So that gives customers more knowledge about the specific environmental microbiology. How many presumptive positives have you had in the past, you know, year? What have you done? What sort of follow up testing? What sort of have you done seek and destroy process in your plant? Those types of data are helpful for understanding that.
- [11:19]
B
And that kind of leads into my next question which was, you know, another subject that you talked about during the session was when and how to talk with your customers about testing results. So what advice was shared on that topic?
- [11:32]
D
Well, you want to talk about the program before you sign the contract. That was loud and clear from Eva, and I completely agree with that. You know, like Eva, I've been a customer. I work for Arby's long before all this testing stuff came out. But, you know, understanding that you have to have that codified and agreed upon and frankly, being transparent with your customer, with the data that you have is part and parcel to that. Because you can't say, this is what I'm going to do, but you can't look at any of it.
- [12:04]
B
Yeah, right.
- [12:05]
D
That's not a partnership.
- [12:06]
F
Yeah, it's.
- [12:08]
C
It seems like the technical people from both customer and supplier aren't always on those communications as much as they should be, at least.
- [12:17]
B
Really? That's interesting.
- [12:18]
C
Yeah, it's. Sometimes. I've worked for most of my career for the supply side, so for manufacturing. And so I would be the technical person usually in, in negotiating some of the sampling, product testing, environmental monitoring. And seldom could I get to the person who I knew was there somewhere in that company because they're also a member of whatever food safety organization, IFT or IAFP or maybe they've attended Food Safety Summit and I met them. But I, you know, you have to follow the proper channels when you're dealing with these things. And it seems like it's hard to get those connections made. So that was one point yesterday, was putting those people together.
- [12:58]
B
Interesting.
- [12:59]
D
Your salespeople have to understand that you are as much of a vested partner in the process as they are. You know, they're always afraid that we technical pukes are going to say something untoward or we're going to let slip some, some deep secret knowledge that's going to catch them unawares. But that's why you have to have that really good relationship with, with your commercial people, so they understand you're, you're, you're a partner. You know, we're all in this to make money.
- [13:29]
G
This is not.
- [13:30]
D
None of us are doing this as a charity.
- [13:32]
B
Right.
- [13:32]
D
And we all want to make the best possible decisions. And that starts with communication and partnership.
- [13:38]
B
Yeah. And I mean, you know, just kind of on the subject of transparency along the supply chain, I mean, that's, you know, you talked about testing results, something that, you know, the right people need to be involved to communicate that information to the people who need to know. And, you know, I think, you know, even though we're talking about traceability of where food product goes with the FSMA 204, you know, I mean, I think all these things we're discussing are just like greater efforts to achieve that transparency among different facets of the supply chain about, you know, what is going on with the food and let's make sure it's safe to. For the end user.
- [14:14]
D
Right?
- [14:15]
B
So.
- [14:15]
C
Yeah, yeah. And it's different for different product types. I think one of the things that was brought up yesterday was for products with a kill step, this is a lot easier. For products that don't have a final kill step in the package, there's, there's a lot of pressure to do a lot of finished product testing. But again, it's just unless you, unless you have a high level of contamination, the probability of detecting it's very low. So there have to be a lot of inputs into that developing the sampling plan that at least gives you a level of understanding of what you're getting for it. And there's been some good publications on looking at. I cited one on LinkedIn today from FDA put out an interesting publication just in the last month in Journal of Food Protection that really looked at not only the probability of detecting a pathogen, Listeria monocytogenesis, in ready to eat foods based on sample sampling plan, number of samples, but also they tied it to actual risk reduction, human illness, which I think is a neat way for us in the food industry to really bring the human aspect into it a little more so that we have understanding of what is the downstream result in human health, public health.
- [15:32]
A
Mm.
- [15:34]
B
So were there any attendee perspectives or comments or even questions during this session yesterday that you found particularly enlightening or interesting?
- [15:43]
D
I love when the audience participates. You know, we were all a little disappointed that we were tethered to the stage because it was livestreamed. It was like love to go to the back of the room with a microphone and ask people questions. But we had great audience participation. And the first young man that spoke up, he added to, to Eva's point and I've just gone blank.
- [16:04]
C
Help me, Peter, about the products without a kill step and the, the, the raw material.
- [16:12]
D
Yes. Microbiology making, you know, what about your raw material suppliers? What about you're bringing in raw materials that the raw materials don't have a kill step either and you may not.
- [16:21]
G
Have a kill step.
- [16:22]
D
And again, it goes back to, it goes back to intended product use. Risk assessment, that hazard analysis, they're not sexy, but these are the basic and the building blocks that we can't forget. And you can't do a risk assessment sitting in your cubicle up in the office. It takes that cross functional team. So anybody who's listening, who's in operations, that means you and maintenance and sanitation. I leave out anybody, Sinji?
- [16:50]
B
No.
- [16:50]
D
Okay. Going to the floor and literally looking at the pro. You got a new process, you gotta go and look at it and say, what could. What could go wrong? Because it will.
- [17:06]
C
Yeah. Most. Most of the times there's a supplier, the customer visits the site and does an audit. But maybe there's some opportunities to have those walkthroughs more often. One of the comments one of the audience members made yesterday was about how I can't remember the company.
- [17:24]
B
It was.
- [17:24]
C
But she said that she picks up the phone and she tries to establish a relationship. I think. I think her company was a supplier, but she tries to get to the right people, have those conversations and build a relationship so that when. When there's new data that comes in on a particular lot or maybe there's some questions down the road, once the. Once the business has gone, has been ongoing for a while, that it's an easy. There's no barrier to reaching out and having those conversations to negotiate what's happening. That was an interesting, valuable point, I think.
- [17:57]
D
Yeah. Because trust has been established.
- [17:59]
B
Yeah.
- [17:59]
D
And you know what? If I trust you, I'm. I'm more than willing to have a conversation and listen to what you have to say.
- [18:05]
B
And when you do have an issue, then you already know that person. When you pick up the phone, it's not so awkward or. Or like, you know, oh, we need to establish each other before we can talk about this problem.
- [18:14]
D
Right.
- [18:14]
B
You know, exactly. Those relationships are so important to establish early and, you know, to continue to, you know, maintain as well, shared interests. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So. Wow. Well, this was a fun interview and a very insightful interview, and I appreciate, you know, Sharon and Dr. Sharmina, you guys come. Coming to talk with. Talk with me and to. For our attendees to listen to the podcast theater live today. So thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
- [18:41]
D
Hey, appreciate the time. Does the audience have any questions?
- [18:44]
B
Did you guys have any. Anything you wanted to ask? Okay.
- [18:51]
D
Yeah.
- [18:51]
B
So the question was, how do you validate for the microbiological data? Yeah. If. If somebody is asking to see that. So testing, like you said, ATP.
- [19:05]
D
Yeah.
- [19:06]
B
Okay. Okay. Any insights?
- [19:10]
D
Okay, so how do you validate less testing?
- [19:14]
B
Okay.
- [19:14]
D
You got to use the D. Does that sum it up? How do you validate less testing? You got to use the data that you have, and if you don't have sufficient data and you don't have data over time. So that's the other thing. Think about seasonality, you know, I do all my work in December and I live in, you know, the far reaches of the country. It's going to be different in July. So make sure that your data are representative of your process and your climate, but let the data drive that, that discussion. Like here's irrefutable proof. I know, Peter.
- [19:54]
C
Another thought would be validation. So challenge the system. If there's some way to do that. I'm not familiar with specifically what process or product you're referring to, but you can do challenge studies or implant surrogate validation studies not only for your critical control point, but you can do it for some quality related factors. So that would be one way to say let's, let's challenge our system. Let's see what data we can collect from when we really stress it out and what's the outcome and that can inform your, your verification.
- [20:28]
B
Okay, thank you. Any other questions you would like to ask? Yeah.
- [20:37]
D
Let me make sure I've captured this correctly. So we talk about long term use of data, but if you are having recruitment, recurring failures in your food safety system could be SSOP one day, could be HACCP the next day could be different CCPs. When do you know it's time to do something different? Well before the outbreak or recall. Okay, thank you for adding that little extra Kobayashi Meru piece in there. You know I hate to use the adult diaper answer if it depends, but you have to look at, you have to look at severity. You have to look at, do you have the product under control? I don't have a one size fits all. But even if there are different things popping, it says your system's broken and you don't have to wait for it to be the second time the same CCP fails. What's going on in your system? Get your cross functional team out on the floor. Walk it. Talk to the operators. Talk to your hourly employees. They have the answers, right? They are there day in, day out. They are your best first line of defense. Talk to them. Don't wait too long to react. Better to react sooner than later. And better to on a seek and destroy basis. Who in the audience does seek and destroy just for no reason at all? It's like any muscle, every athlete has muscle memory. I challenge everybody to do a seek and destroy exercise, at least quarterly, if you've not had a positive, because otherwise you're gonna, when you do have one, you're never going, you're never gonna understand how to do it. And make sure that the B team gets to be on those, those practice runs because, you know, three day weekends. Who gets to go on vacation on the three day weekends? The A team and maintenance is always doing work, extra work with contractors who leave doors open. I'm gonna shut up now, Peter.
- [22:42]
E
If you're a turn, preach it.
- [22:47]
D
Did that answer your question, David? Okay.
- [22:49]
B
Anything to add or. Okay.
- [22:51]
F
No.
- [22:52]
B
All right. Okay, good. We could have time for one more question if there was one. If not, we'll. All right, so I think we'll go ahead and wrap up this interview. Again, thank you, Sharon and Dr. Taormina for being here and for the audience. Thanks for sitting in and listening. Our next interview here on the Podcast Theater Live stage is going to be at 12:30 and that's going to be with Sandra Eskin, who's the current CEO of Stop Foodborne Illness. So we're looking forward to having Sandy back. So see you back then.
- [23:23]
D
Thanks all.
- [23:23]
C
Thank you.
- [23:25]
B
Okay, well, welcome back to the Podcast Theater Live. Thanks for coming to watch our interviews. Really appreciate it and glad you're all here with us. And here with me, I have Sandra Eskin, who is the CEO of Stop Foodborne Illness and formerly the Deputy Undersecretary for Food Safety at usda fsis, as you probably know. So, Sandy, it's great to have you back at the summit in your new position as CEO of a Stop Foodborne Illness. How is the transition to consumer advocacy work treating you? And how do you see it as being complimentary to your previous work at FSIS?
- [24:01]
G
So glad to be here. First, second, I think I'm in week 11 of this position and so far, so great. It's been wonderful. Now, remember, Adrienne, before I was at usda, my career was all in the consumer advocacy space, eventually focusing on food safety. But I've worked for a very, very large nonprofit, the Pew Charitable Trust, and a tiny but mighty nonprofit, Stop Foodborne Illness. To a large degree, for me, coming to STOP is like a homecoming. I've worked with them on the Food Safety Modernization Act. They were absolutely pivotal in convincing lawmakers to pass that. I've done some consulting work for them and I was a board member. So I think that's what makes this transition easy. And always happy to visit Chicago.
- [24:59]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, one of the tenets of consumer advocacy work that you talked about has been a large part of your career is striking that balance between demanding change from and collaborating with federal regulatory agencies. So I'm curious about how you approach that balance, having previously worked, you know, as both a regulator and a nonprofit and for a nonprofit Public, Public policy organization.
- [25:27]
G
Great question. So the former CEO of the Pew Charitable Trust called the people who work there raging moderates. And that really describes me, I think, very well. I'm trained as a lawyer, so I like to be rational, ask good questions, rely on laws and regulations. But, you know, in any profession, and certainly in the food safety area, relationships are, are absolutely important and constructive. So I have had the opportunity to work a lot with industry when I was at Pew. We don't always, we didn't always agree, but when you have that relationship that you've built, you listen better and you think about the other positions. So it is a balance, no doubt. But I think because I tend to be more on the pragmatic scale of advocates, I think that's helpful.
- [26:34]
B
Well, you know, I think that shifting to STOPS as you've shifted to STOPS working with STOP Foodborne Illness. So I'm curious about how the organization is approaching or adjusting its advocacy efforts in a time of rapidly shifting food regulatory policy at both the federal and the state levels.
- [26:57]
G
Again, a great timely question. So when I was approached by STOP and they said I could work remotely and I'm in Washington D.C. i thought, oh, this is perfect because I can engage with the regulators and lawmakers on a regular basis, which I still can. But as I think we all have seen at least early on, that the approach that the government is taking is not heavy on regulation. So what that demands you to do is to think more creatively about how to improve food safety. There's lots of ways to do that. One thing that STOP has developed, which I think is a terrific platform, is, is the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness. It's founded, I think in 2018. There are 20 plus companies that are food companies, trade associations and others. And we work on issues of mutual interest. They don't always or for that matter ever result in a regulation per se, but it is fundamental issues like food safety culture. So I think I'm very lucky because while I am in Washington and I can meet face to face to, with, with officials, the orientation to looking broadly beyond that, what happens in Washington D.C. allows, is allowed, you know, through again the alliance. And I don't want to, I didn't really mention the states, but they continue to have an important role in food safety. And we have gotten involved STOP over the years. So that's something also that we've got our eye on.
- [28:45]
B
Great. And you know, certainly the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness and you know, Vanessa's work on that program and you know, STOP Shepherding that program with industry who, you know, want to be part of something bigger and collaborate to make a difference is a very noble initiative. So commend STOP for that. So you've joined us at the summit for many years.
- [29:07]
G
Oh yes, in many capacities.
- [29:09]
B
In many capacities. You know, you've been a town hall speaker and now as you're joining us as head of Stop Foodborne Illness, which is the recipient of this year's Food Safety Summit gives back donation that we had the reception for last night.
- [29:20]
G
Yay.
- [29:21]
B
So we're very happy to be able to do that. And you know, I guess that leads me to ask, what value does the summit bring to you both professionally and personally?
- [29:32]
G
I think I said this last night in accepting the check. Number one, I always learn something new. And I think when people ask me, what is your advice? How do you sort of navigate. There's so much that's offered. I said you should be pretty wide in your vision. A lot of us are very focused on the issues we're working at in the office. But, but an environment like this exposes you to lots of different issues, lots of different perspectives. So that's number one, I learn. Number two, I reconnect. So there's a lot of people that I've worked with over the years who are loyal summit attendees. So I always look forward to seeing them. And of course I meet a lot of new people. And the third that I said yesterday, Food Safety magazines, incredible generosity to provide us with a substantial donation from attendees is just like the icing on the cake. It's, it's, it's wonderful. It's hugely helpful. We are a small organization with a relatively small budget, so that donation will help us do a lot of really important things. So it's been a great three days. I'll do a pitch. The fact that you have it in Chicago is particularly nice since my son and daughter in law live here. Actually stops offices here too. But and because let me make a note, please don't ever move the date because it allows me to be here in Chicago for Mother's Day. That's no slight to my two daughters who don't live in Chicago, but that's actually definitely a lovely byproduct of your scheduling decision.
- [31:16]
B
Yeah, no, we love having it in Chicago. We love having it this time and it's very convenient for a lot of folks for a lot of different reasons. And we know that. And so thanks for those kind words. And I guess if I could throw out one more bonus question to you, you know, just Having assumed the role of CEO of STAT Foodborne Illness, what do you see as like, if you could say, you know, this is my mission statement for how I want to carry STOP forward into the future. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that, like, what is your vision for your, for your work there?
- [31:50]
G
So let me start with kind of current priorities subject to some external changes which we have no control over. I'll address three of those and then talk a little bit more about some of the things that, that I've been thinking out that I'll talk to the board about. And some of them may involve the alliance. But first, we are very, very concerned that this administration is going to expand access to raw unpasteurized milk and dairy products. These are extremely hazardous products. FDA has banned them in interstate commons commerce for the last 30 years. So if that happens, we have lots of our constituents, families and family members who've been sickened by raw milk and they're going to respond. Second, this is an alliance priority and I think it's an important one because again, our members, our constituents have had direct personal impact with illness. Recalls are really important. Recall communication is really important. STOP has engaged through the alliance on ways to improve recall communications, to modernize recall, and that's a continuing priority. And third, a lot of work has been done by some STOP leadership on looking at produce safety. We have the rules that were implemented under the Food Safety Modernization Act. They're really the floor. And the reason that is the case or the evidence that's the case, is that we continue to have outbreaks linked to romaine, linked to onions, even linked to organic carrots. So what we're trying to determine is the best way to lift up best practices. And taking a page from my experience, experience, when I was at Pew, we were very big on multi stakeholder collaborative initiatives, getting people of interest across stakeholders to sit down and in a facilitated conversation, identify areas of mutual interest, priorities, practices. The produce issue was complicated, but it is so important because we all are supposed to and should eat a lot of fresh produce. And consumers aren't necessarily game to do that if they hear about outbreaks, right? In terms of the future, I'll just mention one thing. I'm looking at outbreak communications all the way back upstream. There are a few policies that are problematic that aren't new to this administration. Like when an outbreak is over, FDA and I think USDA might do the same thing and the product is no longer on the market, they don't tell you who produced the product, who's responsible for the contaminated product. Yes. Maybe people can't eat it, but it's important information. And similarly, FDA doesn't always inform consumers about where product was sold. So we're looking at that. And I, I know we're talking to. To lots of people in the process. I think that is another instance where you can make significant public health improvement with tweaks in the process. So we'll see how that plays out.
- [35:23]
A
Yeah.
- [35:25]
B
Well, thank you so much, Sandy, for outlining all these priorities that STOP STOP has and, you know, talking a little bit more about your mission as the new CEO of STOP Foodborne Illness.
- [35:35]
G
I don't know, Adrian, you missed one question I've been practicing the answer for.
- [35:39]
B
Oh, no, what did I forget to ask?
- [35:41]
G
What was it like to be in the administration, in a governed position, helping to make decisions? That was one of the questions you had me prep. And I will, I will take a line from that famous Revolutionary War period historian, Lin Manuel Miranda. It is really fun to be in the room where it happens. Right. Advocates are knocking at the door and you realize, oh, you know, people do think about lots of things in that room, not just what's good for industry, what's good for consumers. That's part of it. So that was, to me, such a gift, having worked as an advocate my whole life and understand that people really do try to think about everything from who's it going to impact to what are the unintended consequences. So that was a great thing for me. And thank you for having me prep that question.
- [36:41]
B
Absolutely. And, you know, we certainly appreciate you also sharing, you know, all of the various perspectives and, and how they've led you where you are. And, you know, I think everything you've done throughout your career is, you know, leading up to this moment. Right. And you have all these, all these different things that you've done where, you know, you are basically like, well, I've seen both sides of the, of the aisle, and so, you know, I'm ready to take on new challenges. So wishing the best of luck in your new position. Very happy to have you here with stop. And thank you again for doing our podcast theater live again with us. We appreciate it.
- [37:18]
G
It's a great opportunity for me. I appreciate you reaching out. And I will say, you are the favorite podcast I listen to when I Walk My Dog.
- [37:27]
B
We love that. Thank you for. Thank you for those kind words.
- [37:30]
G
Thanks.
- [37:33]
H
We're back here at the podcast theater, and I'm here with John o' Fallon with Zebra Technologies. John, welcome. Thanks for being on the podcast.
- [37:39]
F
Thanks for having me, Bob. Appreciate it.
- [37:40]
H
So yesterday, you and I had a chance to talk for a while yesterday about your technology with the temperature tracker and all the details of that. I'm not going to do it justice like you would. So tell me a little bit about what Zebra does and how the tracking technology works.
- [37:52]
F
Yeah, Zebra Technologies is a global company that, you know, goes well beyond environmental sensors. Obviously, most, most folks know Zebra technology for printers, handheld computers, scanners, vision technology. And the environmental sensors is a new piece of the portfolio. Zebra purchased a company called Temp Time based out of New Jersey back in 2018 and has since, you know, grown that business and expanded it. And you know, one of the, one of the areas that temtime focused on specifically was tracking and tracing, temperature monitoring and other environmental effects of products in motion. And a lot of pharmaceuticals, a lot of medical products and food obviously is a big part of that and was a big part of their portfolio from the beginning. So, you know, from, from a portfolio perspective, Zebra has a number of different environmental sensors. Some of them are ready to use sensors, so products, you know, labels that have chemicals, chemistry built into them. Okay. Some of them are printable, so they actually have labels that have chemistry built into that. And then once it's run through a thermal printer, activates that, giving end users more flexibility to use this. And obviously electronic sensors. Electronic sensors is a big, a big push now because people want the data. But yeah, I mean, the portfolio is really kind of broken up into those, those three areas and, you know, expanding on a daily basis.
- [39:26]
E
Okay.
- [39:27]
H
Yeah, there's a lot of attention on supply chain these days and a lot of attention on traceability and supply chain. Tell me a bit more about how people use these sensors. Why should they be looking at this more? What aren't people doing that they should be doing?
- [39:39]
F
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, when you, when you think about why this has come to a fore, you know, now the origins of that really go back to Covid. Okay. Because supply chains were so taxed, specifically food during that period, it created a lot more focus on it and a lot of tightening of belts too. So, you know, companies went under because of supply chain challenges. So, you know, as people, you know, come out of COVID in this post Covid era, you know, the focus on lack of waste, of having a more secure supply chain, especially, you know, in the cold, in cold chain.
- [40:23]
E
Right.
- [40:24]
F
You know, you need to have that kind of the correct vision of, of what, what the future is and, and you know, from, from a sustainability Perspective. It's, you know, it's everyone's, Every company's punch list is sustainability because, because it relates to cost savings. The two kind of go hand in hand and with environmental sensors, it's a direct response to that. Understanding what is happening as your products are moving through your supply chain, as your products are being stored in your supply chain. It's really, really important to know that information, to know that data and to be able to use that data. Data.
- [41:06]
D
Right.
- [41:06]
F
You know, using that data is super important. Yeah.
- [41:11]
H
When you were saying before about COVID and supply chains, I had that picture of all the ships sitting in the Pacific. Totally. Yeah.
- [41:16]
F
Yeah.
- [41:17]
H
And then, you know, what happened to my product in the meantime? What can I do with that?
- [41:20]
F
Yeah.
- [41:20]
H
Can I use that? As, you know, I'm receiving product, I'm sending product.
- [41:24]
F
Yeah.
- [41:24]
H
All that goes to product safety and product quality.
- [41:28]
F
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, when you, when you don't have that visibility, it creates, you know, some sticky situations and more and more companies are, are using it from, from a brand identity standpoint as well. You know, you want your brand, you want to be able to say to your end consumer that you know where your product's been.
- [41:52]
E
Right.
- [41:53]
F
And you know, this is obviously Fisma 204 is A, is a big, you know, has been a big touch point, but with that, you know, getting pushed out, it's really, you know, still it top of mind for so many people because so many folks at the, you know, the consumer level and are still looking for that information. They still want that information and they're holding other companies accountable for that information. So, you know, having, having the log information, having the information, information about what the products are doing in your warehouses is, is super, super important. And also from, from a HACCP plan standpoint, you know, you need to know what the quality of your products are when it's in your custody. You know, you cannot, you know, ignore that when you're working with raw materials that are perishable, you know, you need to have that and you know, the list of use cases of people monitoring or needing monitoring is, is very long.
- [42:53]
E
Right.
- [42:53]
F
Yeah.
- [42:54]
H
So I'll get on my soapbox a little bit. Even though Fisma 204 has been pushed out, don't wait because it's still coming.
- [43:01]
F
Yeah.
- [43:01]
H
And supply chain control is still something you need to deal with.
- [43:06]
F
Yeah, definitely. And it's just, it creates that accountability. You know, when you think about cost savings, you know, you're able to, if you have the data, you're able to present that to the end user, be able to present it to your distributors, you're able to present it to anyone who wants to know about it, that what, what the product went through while it was in your custody or while it was outside your custody. And you know, for, from, from our standpoint, from Zebra standpoint, it's a, it's a hugely growing market and there's a lot of ambiguity out there. You know, there's a lot of, kind of out of sight, out of mind. And I think, you know, in, in a post covet era, more, more people are in tune or want to know what is happening, you know, what is happening to their products.
- [43:57]
H
So I would assume if something that's in a cold chain gets out of the cold chain, that that contributes to food waste. Contributes to pro. Contributes to product waste. Waste.
- [44:06]
F
Yeah.
- [44:06]
H
But even if you just don't have the data and there's any uncertainty that would also contribute the product waste, people aren't going to say, well, I don't know what happened to it. Just send it over. They want to know or they're not going to take it.
- [44:15]
F
Yeah, definitely. And, and there's, there's, you know, the, the amount of food waste in globally.
- [44:21]
D
Yeah.
- [44:22]
F
Continues to increase and it's a shame. It's, it's really ridiculous because there's so many instances where people don't know the information. And from their standpoint, it's just simpler and you know, from a cost perspective, safer to throw everything out.
- [44:40]
D
Right.
- [44:41]
F
Where in reality you don't have to throw it out. You know, you don't have to. If you knew what the temperature was, you would be saving yourself a significant amount of money. You know, before I worked here at Zebra, I was fortunate enough to work at a large beverage manufacturer, one of the largest. And you know, we would factor in a significant amount of waste.
- [45:04]
B
Yeah.
- [45:05]
F
Into every product that we commercialize, whether it's ambient or fresh products. We were constantly, you know, having that large percentage where, you know, you needed to factor that in just, just out of.
- [45:19]
B
Right.
- [45:19]
F
You know, safety and just be like, well, we need to factor this into. At the P and L just in case something happens. So, you know, from that perspective, you know, the dollars and cents of, of having. Having a enlightened supply chain where you can actually see what's happening is super important.
- [45:40]
H
Yesterday when we talked, you showed me one of the temperature loggers. You call them temperature loggers. Is that fair? Okay, I'm gonna make sure I get the terminology.
- [45:47]
F
Well, environmental sensors, probably broader, but yeah, but okay, same thing. Yeah.
- [45:51]
H
So you were showing me one of the environmental sensors that you have that goes along with a shipment.
- [45:55]
F
Yeah.
- [45:55]
H
And then it, it communicates via Bluetooth when it comes back into the ship, then delivers all that data. Walk me through that process and tell me how that works.
- [46:02]
F
Yeah, yeah. So the, one of the products that we have is, it's called ZS300. It is a Bluetooth data logger. It's Bluetooth on purpose. You know, cellular data loggers tend to be more expensive.
- [46:18]
E
Okay.
- [46:18]
F
Bluetooth is fairly inexpensive. It's also, it also allows you to leverage existing infrastructure. So this is a, you know, versatile data logger that will basically communicate with the handheld devices, the tablets, the mobile computers that you have in your, in your existing supply supply chain to constantly kind of give you that feedback, constantly give you the information that you're looking for from, from the logger itself. And you know, it's, it has a wide, wide range. So you could go anywhere from like ice cream. You know, we're talking negative 40C to 85C. So a huge, huge range. And you know, that information is stored on that device. It stays on the device and, and then once it gets to within vicinity of a bridge, and that could be an application on any phone or tablet, it will pull that information off and automatically send it to the key parties involved. So seamlessly kind of transferring the information. We work a lot with products in motion and we work a lot with fixed locations, customers or end users that have large, large warehouses and they need to know what the temperature of their facility is. And so many folks, I would say, you know, more, well, more than half are still doing kind of pen and paper logging, which is extremely inefficient. You know, you have to have an employee walk around a million square foot facility once a day, a couple times a day. Like that's, that's, that's a lot of money that you're, you're spending where that person could absolutely be doing other things that are more meaningful and you know, more driving the business to the bottom line. So you know, for, for applications like that, it's a, it's an easy roi. You know, for products in motion, it's, it's the same thing. You know, you lose a, you lose one load because you don't know what the temperature is. You're paying for the solution.
- [48:19]
B
Right.
- [48:20]
F
I think the challenge that most companies kind of come up with is, well, you know, we don't have a budget for this or we don't have anything like that, but what we found working with some of these companies is that once they see where, where the benefit is, once they see what the, the return is, it's, it's kind of a, it's simple math. Yeah.
- [48:42]
H
You mentioned a couple of things yesterday that I found really fascinating and I want you to elaborate on this a little bit. So a shipment comes into this million square foot warehouse. When your product is measuring the temperature or measuring the environmental attributes, whatever it happens to be they're measuring, it just comes through the Bluetooth and automatically registers, but it keeps moving. You just unload the truck, unload whatever it is you're unloading, and it goes back into the warehouse. And the first thing is it's all automatic. And you said it's customizable, so it can work with almost any data system that they have.
- [49:14]
F
Yeah.
- [49:15]
H
And that, I thought that was fascinating.
- [49:16]
F
Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, most, a lot of data loggers, a lot of cellular loggers, USB loggers, they're one time use.
- [49:25]
H
Right.
- [49:26]
F
And they, you know, for kind of, you have to use a specific software. You know, our products, Zebra is known for working with partners and you know, our products work with other companies to integrate this data stream into however you want to digest it. You know, if you want to put it in a wms, you want to put it in erp, and then you can kind of customize it based off of what you're looking for. So if you want to monitor certain temperature ranges and you're okay if it goes outside of that range for five or 10 minutes, you can do that.
- [50:00]
B
Right.
- [50:01]
F
And you know, when it comes into your facility, in the example that you saw, you know, any handheld devices, any tablets that are in that facility are automatically looking for that signal, and when that signal comes in, it'll be uploaded. And you know, if there is an issue, if there's a problem, you get a text message, you're gonna get an email, and you know, you can kind of stop the train from rolling forward at that point.
- [50:25]
H
Okay.
- [50:26]
F
But a lot of times, you know, the, the, it starts in the very, very beginning. You know, the sensor lives in the beginning and goes all the way to the end and you know, constantly has those checkpoints as it goes along the process. So it's, it's, it's a great, it's a great piece of technology.
- [50:46]
H
The other thing you mentioned in our conversation was that you get into these big warehouses wherever it's being stored, and you're aware of the temperature. The warehouse is temperature controlled, but the first pallet on the floor is not necessarily the same temperature as the 15 stacked up.
- [51:03]
F
Yeah.
- [51:03]
H
And that can also cause a problem. How aware are people of that problem?
- [51:06]
F
I mean, I think people are aware of it, but I think there's limited, limited tools at their disposal. Okay. They could put a thermometer 50ft up in the air.
- [51:18]
H
Right.
- [51:18]
F
But they'd have to be able to read the thermometer. And in, you know, in, in certain circumstances, you know, the temperature difference between what's on the floor and what's, you know, on the fifth stack of pallets is, is vast. So, you know, in, in that, that's another use case that we're running into all the time is, you know, they want to, they want a holistic approach on what's happening in their facility and they want to be able to have that data and use it is simply for the fact that they could potentially save many. Save, save money on, you know, cooling.
- [51:54]
I
Right.
- [51:54]
F
You know, I mean, that's, it's a huge charge for a lot of these companies and you know, for, for a solution that's, you know, around $40 per sensor that lasts for 18 months. It's a pretty, pretty simple solution.
- [52:07]
H
It's a pretty simple solution.
- [52:08]
G
Yeah.
- [52:09]
H
The, the other question about that is it's also one thing to talk about a, A, a warehouse somewhere, but a warehouse in Florida or warehouse in Arizona is not the same problem as a warehouse in Minnesota or you have a whole bunch of other temperature, temperature excursion problems.
- [52:24]
F
Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, that's, that, that's where, you know, some of our other products kind of come into play too. You know, we have one time use tags that, you know, when you get into those very extremes where you might not necessarily need a full data log, but you do need a system of record. You need a visual indication that those products were safe in, in their journey. Arizona, in the middle of summer. You know, going from Tucson to Phoenix. You know, that type of run is, is highly, highly troubling for a lot of companies. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. And, and you know that that type of environment is where, you know, having full visibility is super important. In the reverse of that, you know, we have customers that buy our products in Alaska, in Canada and where it gets extreme, I mean, not to mention Chicago, but like, you know, where it gets extremely cold and those, those products can be, you know, highly susceptible to freezing.
- [53:28]
H
Right.
- [53:28]
F
You know, we also work in chemicals. You know, we, we work, work with chemical companies because it's the same, same type of situation but yeah, I mean, those, those kind of critical, you know, danger zones, right. For food is, is super important and it's, and it's why a lot of people are looking for solutions.
- [53:47]
H
Yeah. Yeah. It is easy to forget. I mean, for the people listening, you'll know your product, but it is easy to forget that there's a lot of food products and a lot of other products, biotech products that have a very nice narrow temperature range.
- [53:58]
A
Yeah.
- [53:59]
F
Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it kind of runs the gamut. You know, we, we've done, we've done pilots with bourbon companies.
- [54:06]
H
Okay.
- [54:07]
F
You know, it's, it's chemicals, it's food, it's dairy, it's, you know, obviously pharmaceuticals is super, super important. So medical products, all those, all those things we get some interesting use cases and you know, most of them are, you know, they, they, they want to, they want to have some enlightenment about what's happening either outside of their control or inside their control. And that's, that's something that's new. I mean, you know, a lot of, a lot of companies were, you know, pre Covid. Were okay with the ambiguity, but I think we're seeing that a lot more in Europe. You see a lot of it.
- [54:50]
D
Yeah.
- [54:50]
F
And we're seeing that a lot more here in the US Especially with, you know, like what we talk about post Covid. People, people really looking into it from a cost savings perspective.
- [55:01]
H
So tell me what's next? Where, where's this, where's your market going? Where's your technology going? Kind of the Wayne Gretzky where's the puck skating to your.
- [55:09]
F
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I, I, this is the beginning beginning of our journey from, from tracking products. I mean, we're, we have a pipeline of, of innovations that is, is coming.
- [55:24]
H
Okay.
- [55:24]
F
But you know, for, for the future of sensing and, and monitoring products just as a whole, it's, it's not going away. It's going to get even more intense.
- [55:35]
B
Right.
- [55:35]
F
You know, especially, you know, as we fismo is not going away, it will come back you to want, will have that, you will have that in legislation. But from, from, from a zebra perspective, you know, we're, we're ready to kind of really tackle a lot of different use cases. You know, think anything environmental, anything, you know, shock, light, humidity, all the above. You know, all those are, are super important markets for us. And in markets that we play in, I mean, you know, having, having more data at the disposal is, is going to be key for a lot of companies to succeed. You Know, if they don't have that data, they don't have that assurance of quality, then you're gonna, you're gonna suffer versus your competition.
- [56:26]
E
Yep.
- [56:27]
F
Yeah.
- [56:28]
H
So if there's a, if there was an ideal customer out there, again, it sounds like with the type of tracking that you do and the data management that you do, it could be anybody. It could be anybody in the food business whatsoever.
- [56:38]
F
Yeah.
- [56:39]
H
But if there's an ideal customer, someone is out there saying, I'm having a problem with this or I'm having a problem with that, and there's somebody who would say I should go see them first.
- [56:47]
F
What would that look like? Yeah, I mean, from a. And I'm not a scientist at all, but from a science perspective, obviously you want products that are highly perishable.
- [56:58]
G
Right.
- [56:58]
F
And highly sensitive to, you know, to bacterial.
- [57:03]
H
Right.
- [57:04]
F
You know, for harmful, for consumption.
- [57:06]
C
Right.
- [57:07]
F
And those are the kind of two big buckets that we work a lot in. But it's also, you know, it depends on where you are in the supply chain as well. You know, in the very beginning of the supply chain, that is a brand owner kind of relationship. This is our brand, this is our product. And then once it kind of starts to get distributed, it becomes a little less focus for, you know, a distributor. You know, they. Distributors use tags and sensors all the time, but they're more focused on getting this product through them and out the door as fast as possible. And then when you get towards the end of the supply chain where you get closer to the point of consumption, that's where people care also as well, because if someone buys a product from Kroger, Albertsons, Costco, whatever, right. They're going to go back to Kroger, Albertsons, Costco and complain, and then it's going to kind of come back up the supply chain. So, you know, from, from a customer base, you know, we're seeing, we're seeing a lot of people at the very beginning of the supply chain because they, they know it's fresh there, they know it's fresh on point of, you know, production. And then we're seeing it also on the. Closer to the consumption side as well, where it's like they're going to buy it from us. We need, we need to know that when we have it, we have it in custody.
- [58:33]
A
Right.
- [58:35]
F
And giving, giving that scientific data is way more, way more important than reading an expiration date.
- [58:46]
H
Right.
- [58:47]
F
You know, the expiration date is obviously made in a lab, you know, where they test the microbial growth. But, you know, having the Real data on top of that is, Is really important.
- [59:01]
H
I'm glad you made that point. I mean, we're here at the Food Safety Summit.
- [59:03]
F
Yeah.
- [59:04]
H
So we're talking about pathogens and contamination and all those things.
- [59:07]
E
Things.
- [59:07]
H
But it's also about food quality as well. Something gets outside of temperature range, gets in an excursion. It may not be contaminated, but it may not be as good as you want it either.
- [59:17]
F
Exactly. Yeah. In a lot of cases, you don't know that. You know, you're not sure if the lettuce was exposed to, you know, high temperatures that could have caused, you know, growth that could be harmful for consumption. You're not sure if the, the meat or pork or whatever was, was not stored in the. In a safe way. So, you know, it's just going to get more and more. Like there's going to be more scrutiny. Yeah, definitely.
- [59:43]
H
Yeah.
- [59:44]
F
Yeah.
- [59:45]
H
It's also interesting in your line of work, and I'll say this, but you tell me if I'm right about this or not, but we've all become accustomed to ordering things online, and we know where it is every inch of the Step as well. So this is not going to.
- [59:58]
C
The.
- [59:58]
H
Is not going to be requiring less data anytime in the future.
- [60:00]
F
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's, that's.
- [60:02]
G
I'm.
- [60:02]
F
I'm glad you brought that up. That's a super important point. You know, people are way more in tune with, you know, e grocery, e convenience, things being brought to their doorstep. And, you know, with that comes with a ton of hazards. You know, you have the person who's making multiple deliveries, you have the, the person who left it in their car, forgot to deliver one. One bag, and people are getting sick. You know, it is not, it is not a food. Food poisoning is not something that's going away anytime soon. But we could definitely make it better. We could make it a little more secure. We could give you a little more data to make it. Make it safer for the general public. And, you know, that's what we're hoping to help with. So it's, it's a lot of fun.
- [60:53]
H
Yeah. I like that idea that you're saying that. Just because it may have been invisible in the past doesn't mean that something wasn't happening. Yeah. So don't shy away from not wanting to find out about this.
- [61:03]
F
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
- [61:04]
H
So if somebody wants to get started, let's, let's say they're not monitoring it this way. They don't have this in their chain. How did they get started? You talked before about how it's pretty customizable. What you do, you can work with within the systems. What would they do to get started?
- [61:17]
F
Yeah, I mean, I think there's, the first, first step is recognizing that you want to know this information. You want, you want more information than you currently have. And you know, that's, that's a, an easy conversation. It's like, what are you looking to monitor? Why do you want to monitor it? What are you going to use with the data? And it could be as simple as providing a PDF of the log itself to the end user to give them assurance and accountability and certification. It could be as much as data analytics. Getting this information, getting this data and playing with it is one of the biggest parts of the benefit of having a log is because you can actually take this information and analyze it and say, look, maybe we don't need to run our reefers so cold when we're transporting product. Maybe we can, you know, maybe we need to run them colder. And what, what we find with a lot of customers is in the beginning, it's challenging, right? There's lots of alerts, there's lots of issues. And then it just goes silent. And the reason it goes silent is because their supply chain becomes more secure.
- [62:28]
B
Right.
- [62:28]
F
And they're able to market that. I mean, that one of the biggest parts of, of, you know, having a log, having this data is that you can market it. You can talk to people and say, look, we can, we'll share the log with you, we'll give you all the information that we have in an easy format anytime you have a shipment. So that way you, you have assurances that your, your products that we stand by and guarantee.
- [62:54]
H
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, it's, it sounds really good.
- [62:58]
F
Yeah.
- [62:59]
H
Again, you and I talked yesterday, I love the idea that it's not hinged on a proprietary software system. It's not hinged on that. It will work with the software that you have.
- [63:10]
F
Whatever WMS ERP system you have in the background or if you don't have any, that also is fine too. Zebra has the, we work with a lot of partners globally and if, if, if you're a small company, you know, we work with some smaller, you know, importers of, you know, smaller brands, some brands that do private label things like that. And you know, they just want PDFs, they want PDFs and it's very simple. Okay. You set it up and then you know, when, when that product, when that ZS300 comes into contact, you know, it automatically gets sent and you know, Bob's your own.
- [63:51]
H
All right, so everybody listening should give you a call.
- [63:53]
F
Sure, yeah, absolutely. Happy to do it.
- [63:55]
H
We'll set that up.
- [63:56]
F
Yeah.
- [63:56]
H
All right, John, thanks for being on the podcast.
- [63:58]
F
This has been terrific. Appreciate it, Bob.
- [63:59]
H
Thanks.
- [64:00]
F
Take it easy.
- [64:02]
B
Okay. Well, thank you all for joining us again for this is the last interview of our podcast theater live during the summit. So, and I, I want to thank my interview guests. We have Monica Khoury, who's senior quality expert at Nestle, and then we have Lily Yasu, who's the program manager of the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness. So thank you both for being with us today.
- [64:22]
E
Thanks so much for having us.
- [64:24]
B
Yeah. So how are you enjoying the summit so far? Let's start off with that question.
- [64:30]
I
Yeah, it's been a great summit so far. You know, meeting new friends and old, just connecting on a lot of new technologies and meeting with a lot of different vendors too. So I'd say it's been great.
- [64:42]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [64:42]
E
Absolutely. I'm newer to the food safety world, so this is my second summit. And yeah, it's I think a good size and really warm and welcoming and nice to see old friends and meet new folks. So it's been great.
- [64:54]
B
Well, it's great to have you both back and I'm enjoying the summit as well. So, I mean, I think it's been a good experience for a lot of people. Have had some great feedback. So now yesterday the two of you co led a session on how simple features food safety culture tools can have a big impact. Now, Monica, you represented Nestle as a member of the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness. And Lily, you're the manager of the program. So first question for you both, how does the alliance create a bridge between industry food safety work and the consumer advocacy efforts to stop foodborne illness?
- [65:31]
D
Yeah.
- [65:31]
E
So Stop Foodborne Illness is our partner organization and they really specialize in leveraging constituents. So consumer stories, individuals who have themselves or their families been directly impacted by foodborne illness, often in pretty severe, chronic, tragic ways, usually those who themselves have been ill or maybe lost a family member. And the alliance really seeks to connect those stories with food safety audiences. And I would say our main avenue for doing so is our recently launched video series. It's 40 different videos for a variety of audiences that feature four of those real life stories to help, I think contextualize the why of food safety. And yeah, I think I bring together something unique and I think that's definitely the special sauce of the alliance.
- [66:23]
B
The video series is certainly leaves an impressions, very important content you guys put together there. And Monica, how would you. How would you say that these tools help create a bridge between industry, food safety work and consumer advocacy efforts of organizations like stop?
- [66:41]
I
Yeah, I mean, the consumers and industry, we have a common shared goal to improve food safety. So by leveraging the consumer stories, we can really get that out into the industry through the toolkit and make sure that that's widely available so that people have that better understanding of their purpose and the why behind the what we do.
- [67:02]
E
And I think yesterday's session was unique in that we were able to share one of the videos, which is great. But then we were actually joined in real life by the primary subject of the video, Barbara Chamberlain, who shared her mother's story, who was undergoing chemotherapy, was immunocompromised and ultimately passed away due to complications from listeria. And so, you know, seeing the video, hearing that story, certainly resonant on its own, but then having Barbara actually in the room to shed some additional light on things and kind of speak about her experience, I'm sure Monica would agree, was very powerful.
- [67:35]
I
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [67:37]
B
That's a powerful collaboration and certainly for, you know, our summit session certainly gives attendees some something to think about. So thank you for organizing that. Now, these simple food safety culture tools that you discussed in the session, can you tell us more about them and how they can benefit users?
- [67:57]
E
I can talk a little bit broadly and then maybe Monica can share some of how Nestle has leveraged those resources. So, yeah, we have lots of different multimedia types of modules, all of which are housed in our food safety culture toolkit. The video series is obviously a part of that, but like, the alliance has an ongoing webinar series in conjunction with fda. You can find all of those webinars available in the toolkit as well. We have some great resources on assessment, rewards and recognition, lots of different stuff. So, yeah, I think our goal is to have something that's really very diverse, very, very varied. And that of course, the toolkit always has been, always will be free to access. But we also really try to spotlight resources that are themselves very low or no cost to implement. So trying to be friendly to, you know, smaller teams or smaller budgets and make sure there's really something for everybody.
- [68:53]
B
Great. And Monica, you know, as a member of the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness, how do you maybe talk a bit, little bit more about the benefits that using these food safety culture tools has brought your organization?
- [69:05]
I
Yeah, so the nice thing about the toolkit is it's very easy to Read, it's very simple. It's not, you know, you can read as much or as little as you want to and kind of pick up on the different elements that your organization needs and needs to focus on. So that's what I really like about it. We've certainly leveraged different sections of it and it's, you know, kind of led us to some thought provoking discussions and some tweaks to our food safety culture plan.
- [69:35]
A
So.
- [69:36]
I
So yeah, you can really take what you need from it. And it's also great to share with others like within your supply chain and your co man network and you know, like Monica.
- [69:47]
B
So Nestle, you, you belong to an organization that is very large and produces many, many, many different types of commodities. So I guess, you know what I'm wondering with the food safety culture tools that you offer, Lily, Are these tools meant for companies of specific sizes or even sectors? I mean, certainly they've helped Nestle. Can a small company, medium sized companies use them?
- [70:12]
E
Yeah, I would say our goal again is to make these really elastic, really adaptable. I would say for the most part, all of the work the alliance does is ostensibly targeting small and medium sized food companies, although almost all of our current members are, to your point, much larger multinational entities like Walmart and Nestle and PepsiCo and all of those major players. So we're really excited to be launching a new mentorship program over the coming year in which we will work with three small and medium sized food companies to be supported by our existing members and hopefully be able to lend their two cents because, you know, from our perspective, we just want to make sure that what we've created really is appropriate for the audience we're trying to serve.
- [70:57]
B
Right. Okay, great. And so my next question I'm going to pose to both of you. How can companies foster those, you know, aha. Moments that make food safety personal and relatable to employees? You know, and especially during onboarding and training when they're taught this stuff sometimes for the first time.
- [71:17]
I
Yeah, I mean, we're really trying to make sure that every employee gets food safety on day one. And the constituent stories are a great way to give someone the background they need right away because lots of our employees don't necessarily know anything about food safety when they're first working in the food industry. So it just makes it personal and it brings it home.
- [71:43]
B
Great. And you know, just from the perspective of consumer advocacy, do you have any insight into what you see the alliance members, for example, other alliance members doing to foster those moments of personal connection for their employees to the importance of food safety and protecting, you know, consumer health.
- [72:02]
E
Yeah, I would just echo what Monica said. I mean, it feels like not, not to play favorites and to say the video series is my favorite part of the toolkit, but I think that really is our most unique asset. And just anecdotally from other alliance members, it feels like that's the piece that people really come back to time and time again. Right. There are lots of different, say, assessment modules out there, wonderful to explore options to find what's right for you, but I think we are pretty singular in being able to share these stories of real people, real families and seeing that impact. And you know, I think as evident in our session yesterday, a lot of, you know, not a dry eye in the house after, after hearing those stories. So I think that that really strikes home with maybe not everybody, but a lot of folks.
- [72:49]
B
Yeah. And I guess I'll throw out one more, more question. So with all of the members that you have currently with the alliance, stat, foodborne illness, do those, do those member companies share any best practices about food safety culture or do you guys convene and, you know, talk about your experiences and you know, under, under the, you know, under the alliance, you know, label saying basically, you know, like, let's, let's share any information that we can with each other to help reinforce the importance of food safety culture in our organizations. Is that something that you all do?
- [73:26]
I
Yeah, definitely. I mean, we're always sharing with each other and you know, within our working groups and even outside of our working groups, we often connect and just are sharing where we're at on our food safety culture journey and the best practices that we've all adopted and continued, continue to adapt as things change?
- [73:45]
E
Yeah. And I would say we also have an annual virtual meeting for members and an annual in person meeting which Nestle is actually hosting this year. So I think we're trying to make best practice sharing a more explicit part of those in person sessions because at least, you know, we did a little bit of that last year when ConAgra was hosting and it really felt like that was, like that was something people really wanted and that that's kind of an unusual opportunity to really, you know, not just hear broad strokes like we apply these values, but to be like, we use this software, we use this program, here's how we've been successful. So yeah, I'm certainly hoping we can continue to find avenues to, to do that amongst members.
- [74:25]
B
No, that's fantastic. Well, Lily and Monica, I want to thank you both for taking the time to stop by our podcast today and talk to us about, you know, the very important work of the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness and Monica, your company, which is one of those alliance members, how you represent Nestle there. So again, thank you and thank you to the attendees who stopped by for listening to the interview. We really appreciate having you all and hope you found these interviews to be insightful. So thank you.
- [74:59]
A
Thanks again to Sharon Beals, Peter Taormina, Sandra Eskin, John Fallon, Monica Khoury and Lily Yasuda for joining us on the podcast today. And as always, thanks to all of you for listening. A very special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Zebra Technology. Zebra's environmental sensors monitor temperature sensitive products offering data insights on environmental conditions across applications that elevate your supply chain visibility. To learn more, Visit their website zebra.com now. You know we love hearing from you, so please don't hesitate to send us your questions or suggestions to podcastood-safety.com or post a note on LinkedIn, Facebook X or Instagram. We're always excited to hear your feedback and to make sure that new and bonus episodes magically appear in your podcast player, all you have to do is click that Follow or Subscribe button in the player of your choice and presto, bingo. All the episodes appear. And while you're there, throw some stars our way by rating the podcast you know, especially if you enjoyed it. It only takes a moment and it's good for everyone. And that's it for us today. Our next regular episode will air on May 27. In the meantime, take good care of yourselves and those around you and we'll talk to you then.