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- [00:00]
A
The presenting sponsor of Food safety matters is CDG chlorine dioxide. CDG congratulates the Food Safety Matters podcast on achieving its 200th episode. CDG produces CDG Solution 3000, an ultra pure aqueous solution of chlorine dioxide. CDG Solution 3000 is an EPA registered food contact sanitizer that doesn't require rinsing. CDG's unique approach to chlorine dioxide is focused on simplicity, purity and effectiveness. To learn more, visit cdgenvironmental.com hello everyone, and welcome to the 200th episode of Food Safety Matters, the podcast for food safety professionals. I'm Stacey Acheson, publisher, Food Safety magazine, and I'm here along with my co host Adrienne Bloom, our editorial director, and Bob Ferguson, president of Strategic Consulting. Wow.
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B
What was that number, Stacy?
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A
Goodness. 200.
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B
That's 200.
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A
It's only taken us eight years, so, you know, wow. Now technically. And we'll get into a few of the details. We might get into a few details today, maybe. Maybe because we're celebrating with everybody. We're going to do it. We're celebrating with the three of us and all y'. All. So, you know.
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B
And you said we're going to do a 10 minute review of all 200 episodes, right?
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A
I did. That's what we're going to be doing.
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B
It might be a while.
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A
We'll only make it if you all put your, your record your playback on three times. See if you can catch it.
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B
Stay tuned. That's not really happening.
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A
No. Well, it's up to you what speed you listen to us at. I've not been able to. I'm not one of those folks that can do that, but if you can, good for you. So 200 episodes. 200 episodes of exploring, challenging and advancing the science, systems and culture of food safety. And we're just so proud and incredibly grateful to have shared this journey with you, all of our loyal listeners and our new listeners too. So we don't leave you out, but we know that there have been. Some of you have been with us since the, since the very beginning. So why is 200 such a big deal? Well, because most podcasts never make it this far. Just over 2% of podcasts reach 200 episodes. And in a field as complex and essential as, as food safety, reaching this milestone means something deeper. It means that we've built a trusted space together and one that professionals rely on to stay informed, inspired and connected. Over these 200 episodes, we've hosted regulators and researchers, industry leaders and frontline practitioners We've broken down outbreaks and unpacked policies, and through it all, we've kept our focus on the heart of what matters. Protecting public health and supporting those who do the work every day. So today, we're going to take a look back over these last eight years, and we're celebrating you, our listeners, and the many, many, many guests that we've had on the podcast. The professionals, the partners, and passionate advocates who've made this podcast more than just a show. You've helped us build a platform of lasting value, and we can't wait to see what the next 200 episodes bring. So for this episode, we're going to take a look back at how we got started, share some stories and experiences, and then Adrian will help us explore a few of our most notable episodes and guests. And as always, we hope to have a little bit of fun along the way, so. But not Bob. We're not going to let him have any fun.
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B
No, no.
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A
No, None. All right, let's get started. So I guess I'll kick things off here with a little bit of a how we got started or a why we got started. So probably many of you remember us referring to Adam Haas, our colleague and producer who's moved on to other positions at BMP Media. We miss him, but he's always, will always be a very important part of our journey here. Because for years, Adam kept suggesting to me, you got to start up. We have to start podcast. We have to start a podcast. We have to start a podcast. And I was not an easy sell. It took years. What finally tipped the scales for me was when I started listening to podcasts about things that I was interested in, presented by people that I trusted. And there was just nothing like the experience. You know, it was like being in the room. And it was a very personal experience having these folks right in your ear. And I realized that in our position as Food Safety magazine, that we had unique access to important industry leaders and that we could share the experience of talking to people who were shaping the standards and practices of the industry. So we did our research. We figured out our distribution platform, show structure, logos, always a fun part, recording. How are we going to do this anyway? And microphones, of course, still in search of that dream mic. And we still put a lot of effort into making sure that we sound good and that our guests sound good. And then there was picking the music. I think I made Adam's ears bleed listening to samples before we finally came up with the right mix of energy and authority. So I hope it still works. And another fun thing that I haven't really thought about in a while, but some of you may have noticed if you hang into the very, very end, that you hear the sound of someone typing on a keyboard. And this is one of my favorite things. It's a signal to us and to y'.
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B
All.
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A
Y' all seems to be my word today. Adrian, I said, you know, I'm sure you can appreciate. Yeah, Texas. Yeah.
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C
You sound like a Texan today.
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A
I'm all. I'm all y' all today. Yeah. But anyway, so it's the sound of someone typing on a keyboard, and I just. To me, it's like, now we're getting. Now we're getting back to work. Now we're getting back to our day jobs. And just that little bit of an audio signature, if you will, that we're getting back to work for you, for. For y', all, on producing Food Safety magazine and everything now. So that was quite a thing. Bob, you were there, too, through a lot of that.
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B
Well, you know, I don't think I've ever told you this, but at the end of recording, not when. Not when I'm listening to the podcast, but at the end of the recording, as soon as you say that we're done, you get to the last paragraph. I actually type on my keyboard to make that little sou.
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C
You do.
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B
I have every one.
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A
Yep.
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B
Kind of reminds me of the same thing.
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A
Yeah. You know, that comes from, I think, you know, growing up and listening to albums and there were always those little Easter eggs in it. Or actually, it's sort of a nod to Tom Petty on Damn the Torpedoes when he says, it's just the normal noises in here. And to me, those are the normal noises in here.
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C
So.
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A
So that's how we sign off. Yeah.
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B
And if I could make a quick comment about Adam. Everything you said about Adam was spot on. He's definitely missed. I like staying in touch with him on a regular basis. But I will tell you that Adam struck me as being incredibly patient. You were all well along the way on this when I got involved in some of the episodes and then came on as a co host in all the episodes. But I remember the first couple of times I did this, because it was time in between. I could not get anything to work whatsoever. I couldn't get the mic to work. I lived in a rural area. Half the time I couldn't get my Internet to work, and Adam was always right there stopping and saying things. Half the time, I'd be saying something, and I'D be stuttering or forget what I was going to say. And Adam would say, stop. He'd ask me a baseball question or something to distract me so I'd get back on track. If it wasn't for Adam, I never would have had any chance to do any of this because I couldn't get anything to work. So kudos to Adam.
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A
Yes, Adam. And that reminds me, too, that because there's that red light syndrome, all of a sudden you're recording it, you just get tight. You just freeze up. And thank God for editing. But we've all relaxed a lot over the years. And not that I'm a perfectionist or anything. Not me. But you get flustered, too, when you can't get it right. And so Adam one time made me spin around in my chair.
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B
Yep.
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A
He's like, just. Just spin around chair. I'm like, what are you talking about? It worked. It worked. So after we did all of our research and everything, I remember thinking, and we even named our. Our first year end episode review. So I guess we're doing this because we did all our research, we got everything in line, and then it was like, well, I guess we're doing this. And we had absolutely no idea what to expect. You know, were we. Was anybody going to listen? Would anybody care? We were so relieved to find out that we had an audience and There were like 500 downloads for our first episode within, you know, with over a span of time. But still, we. We didn't think anybody would listen. So that was. That was amazing. And fast forward Food Safety Matters ranks and has for quite some time in the top 10% of all podcasts around the world by downloads. So I need to unpack that a little bit and share with you guys that there's an organization called Buzzsprouts that actually is a podcast distribution company, and they host millions and millions of podcasts and some of the biggest in the world. And so they can rank it and everybody relies on their stats. So by download, by the number of downloads in the first seven days of our podcast puts us in the top 10%. And that's usually for us, that's, you know, around. Well, it varies, but these days It's. It's over 500 episodes in the. I'm sorry, 500 downloads in the first seven days. And it. It grows from there. But that's pretty cool. And over time, we've had over 350,000 downloads of the podcast around the world. So we have listeners in 195 countries. And that was surprising. That we wind up with such a strong global audience. So we're very grateful for all of you everywhere in every nook and cranny.
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B
I don't know what the number is these days because it changes a little bit, but that's pretty close to every country in the world because it's around 195. 200 is depending upon who's counting. Yeah, yeah.
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A
Depending on. Yeah, yeah. Depending on who's counting. That could not really that. Well, it does. No. But metrics, trust me, depending on who's counting is a very accurate statement.
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B
Right.
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A
And I think that, you know, it's been such. It's played such an important part in defining our brand, you know, as Food Safety magazine. We were known. You know, we were certainly known and well established by the time we started the podcast. But I think that this has really helped people understand who we are, what we do, how we do it, what we care about, and that we care, I think, a lot about what we do. So it's been really great and very unique for us as far as in the mix of all the things that we produce here as Food Safety Magazine. And I guess speaking of all the folks that we've seen, it's always fun when everybody comes up from around the world at trade shows and introduces themselves. Even a couple weeks ago at iafp, just meeting new folks and new listeners. We always love it. It's so great to connect with y'. All. I'm just gonna keep hitting it, Adrian. Just gonna keep doing that. And of course, there's some, you know, stuff that goes pretty well sideways along the way. I think there was that time, Bob, you had to rent a hotel room so that we could. You had the Internet one time.
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B
I had no Internet, so I had to rent a hotel room in my own hometown, go over and run a. You might want to cut this story. But I felt a little bit funny when I said, I just need the room for an hour or so. I was like, no, I'm just podcasting.
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A
It's a podcast emergency, I swear.
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B
And then last year, I got Covid at the end of IAFP and had to delay my travel back a little bit. And we were podcasting at the end of ifp, and I had the microphone hanging from a lamp in the room or something like that.
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A
Yeah, well, thank God you had it. You know, there's always that, you know, recording from hotel rooms and empty exhibition halls before anybody else gets there with. With just sort of the, you know, the. The tractors, whatever, the, you know, rolling around on the Floor in the background. And then actually one of our. And. And then, of course, gardeners and helicopters. So that was one of the first Easter eggs that we did with the little outtakes. At the end of an episode was Barbara saying, can our first. Our editor previous prior to Adrienne, Barbara Van Renterhem, which I'm sure many of you remember. But Barbara said, can you guys hear that lawnmower? I'm worried that it's bleeding through. And I was like, yeah, but I was worried because I couldn't hear it over the helicopter that's circling my house. So they weren't looking for me, though. So there you go. And, you know, moving from all those early days of podcasting at trade shows in our booth and having a lot of fun with that all the way to the podcast theater at the summit. So it's a long way from us sitting at a little table with a mic and people going, what are they doing over there? Before, a lot of people were doing a lot of this stuff. So back when we started the podcast, we had Bob on early days, and I know, Adrienne, you called that out and yourself the exact moment when we had. I think it was in our first few episodes that we had Bob come on and cover Food Safety Insights, which are always very popular segments. And of course, we like hanging out with Bob and. And love what he brings to our discussion. So finally, we asked Bob to come on as a regular co host with us. Five years ago now.
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B
Five years already.
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A
I know. I checked it. I checked the list. I wanted to be sure. Five years ago. Yeah.
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B
Well, I'll make two quick comments. First off, I love doing insights. I like talking to and interviewing and running the surveys for all the food safety professionals I get to talk to. I think I counted it between surveys and interviews that somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500 different plants that have people at different plants that I've talked to over the last few years. So it's. It's fantastic to hear what's really going on out there. And some of the feedback I get from talking to people at trade shows or the messages I get back from email or LinkedIn, it seems like it's worthwhile for everybody to hear what's really going on from a personal standpoint. I'm going to mention something that between insights and the podcast, particularly the podcast, it's really beneficial for me personally. I don't know if you've ever heard the. The framework for learning something new, where it's watch one, do one, or teach one. And I know keeping up with the news and keeping up with some of the technical topics that we talk about here on the podcast. It's one thing to read it and look at it and go, okay, I saw that, that research, I read that in the magazine. It's another thing to be prepared to talk about it. And so I think for me personally it really helps me stay abreast and on top of the things that we need to stay on top of because like Stacy were saying, it's one thing to, to read an article, but it's another thing to come and talk about it and give the details of it. So I, I get a chance to dig into this and then get a chance to talk to everybody about it. And it is, it's something that's rewarding personally for me and like I said, I hope it, it's useful for people listening because it's, it's really an interesting process.
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A
It is and it's fairly nerve wracking for me trying to get that preparation right of knowing what's important and what to share. We certainly do are exposed to a lot of information, but you're right to be prepared to talk about it is a whole other layer I get buried in my papers over here. But we hear time and time again from people how much they appreciate it. And so that's again, that's really nice. So your feedback, your feedback matters so much to us. So we hope that you keep sending us emails and commenting on social and coming up to us at trade shows because that feedback is just really essential. And I guess I'll also just throw this out that if you want to share something about your favorite episode or interview, send us, you know, send us an email to. Let's see, podcastood-safety.com we would love to hear your feedback on that. So I guess so enough of my nostalgic. What is that? I don't know. It doesn't even make any sense. So I'm just gonna leave it. Adrian's gonna get us started with a, a discussion and walking us through some notable guests and topics are quote. Well to say, I think notable is good to say favorites. You know, it's tough. It's like kids. Which one's your favorite? I don't know. Well, I don't have any, so that makes it easy.
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C
I think there's some overlap between favorites and notable guests and topics. But yeah, man, you know, so like you said, Stacey, it's been eight years of the podcast and 200 numbered episodes plus many editorial bonuses, bonus episodes segments and also sponsored bonus episodes. I think the podcast has distinguished itself as a pretty important education tool for food safety professionals, just like you said, Stacy, and as well as what we hope is an enjoyable program to listen to. And we hear that a lot of you like to listen to the podcast on your commute, or when you're exercising, or whenever you have your free time. And we certainly appreciate you using your free time to listen to us.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So anyway, with a guest roster that includes many of the biggest names in food safety from industry, regulatory, academia, consulting, legal and many other areas, Food Safety Matters has brought these experts to you to share an in depth look at their work, their guidance, and how they help tackle today's most significant food safety challenges.
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A
Okay, so we need to take a quick break and then we'll continue our discussion. It's time to switch to CDG Solution 3000, an EPA registered chlorine dioxide sanitizer that eliminates Listeria, Salmonella, E. Coli, Staphylococcus, and more in one minute without rinsing. It also disinfects hard surfaces against HPAI, TB, Campelbacter and additional pathogens. Made in the USA, CDG Solution 3000 is registered nationwide and features the most extensive organism list among chlorine dioxide Solutions. CDG offers CLO2 clean, simple and pure. To learn more, visit CDGenvironmental.com.
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C
So on this celebration today of our 200th episode of the podcast, we want to take a look back at some of the most notable guest interviews we've shared with you over the past eight years. And don't worry, these episodes will all be linked in the show notes so you can make a point to listen or even re listen to these great interviews. So we can't start this discussion without mentioning the groundbreaking first episode of Food Safety Matters that took place or that was aired in May of 2017. And that episode featured a guest interview with a true food safety pioneer and one who is missed very much by the food safety community, Dave Thino, who led the food safety transformation of Jack in the Box after the company's E. Coli outbreak in the early 90s. So this episode number one titled no One Cooks Their Salad, Dave and former Food Safety Magazine editor Barbara Van Renter hem discussed many topics including industry collaboration and sharing of best practices, the value of knowing your food safety metrics, effective communication in food science, and improvements that were needed to secure the future of food safety. So tragically, Dave Thino passed away due to a swimming accident in June 2017, a little after a month after this interview aired, but he is remembered by the food safety community and by Food Safety magazine as an exemplary leader and a genuine change maker in food safety. Oh, and Dave also shared with listeners in this episode the item he carries in his briefcase as a daily reminder of his essential food safety work. So if you want to find out what was in Dave's briefcase, make sure to have a listen to the first ever episode.
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A
That's a good food safety quiz. Question, General. What is Dave Thino carrying? It's well known by some, so if you don't know, you need to know.
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C
Maybe we'll use one of these episodes to host a Food Safety matters trivia.
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A
Yeah, there you go. There you go.
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C
Right.
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A
Well, maybe we should do the summit. That would be fun. But when we were thinking, like, who's going to be the first guest? Where in the world do you start? We were so lucky to have a great relationship with Theo, and he was more than happy to come on the show. And we were all. And we were thinking, well, that was a good start. We're definitely going to need to have Dave back on. So unfortunately, you know, we didn't get that chance. But I will say, fortunately, we didn't wait. Dave was our first guest because if he hadn't been, I. You know, and. And even when his past, his family reached out to us, because that turned out to be like some of the, you know, an extensive interview that they had of him, and it meant a lot to them as well. So it certainly means a lot and continues to mean a lot to. To all of us in food safety.
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C
Yeah, I think he was a very appropriate first guest to have too. So it was fantastic that Barbara was able to interview Dave for the first ever episode of the podcast.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So the next episode, I want to mention, is actually the second episode of the podcast. And no, we're not going to run through every single one of these 200 plus episodes in order, I promise. I wish we could because I feel like every episode deserves that. But we would be here for the next ten hours at least. So, um, anyway, and then you would have to listen to us at 10 times speed and we'd sound like Mickey and Minnie Mouse. So, you know, anyway, but so this episode number two stands out because the guest is a big part of FSM history. And this episode, also In May of 2017, we talked with renowned food safety expert, microbiologist and process authority Larry Keener, who's been an editorial advisory board member and a frequent contributor to FSM since early 2000, when food safety magazine, which was formerly known as Food Testing and Analysis, debuted under its new name for the first time. Wow. So thank you, Larry, for your many years of collaboration and support. So, Larry, who's president of International Product Safety Consultants, with a long and influential career at Unilever under his belt, as well as other organizations, is a very active author and speaker in the food safety community. And in this interview, in the second episode, he discussed how to work with regulators to introduce new processing methods and technologies, as well as government funding for food safety initiatives. And he also talked about how processing professionals can better understand their roles in making food safe and the importance of hygienic facility design, which continues to be a topic we talk about. Yeah, and by the way, we also spoke to Larry on episode 20 about validation and verification. Also episode 87 about the past 10 years of FISMA, and episode 126 on the events discussed in the book the Poison Squad by Deborah Blum and the evolution of food safety since the late 1800s. And also of note, in episode two, Bob Ferguson shared his first analysis from the surveys.
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A
Yeah, from the beginning, Bob.
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C
From the beginning, from his Food Safety Insights surveys. And this first one that Bob talked about on episode two was on FISMA implementation and its impact on food processors. And of note, this was also the first time Bob appeared on the podcast, and first as an occasional guest, like we said, and then a few years down the road as a regular co host. So we're so lucky to have Bob as a permanent fixture now. And looks like you're stuck with us, Bob.
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B
I would have failed that trivia quest question. See, I wouldn't have gotten that one right.
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C
And now you know, you can win the tournament.
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B
I can win the tournament.
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A
You're just such an integral part of the team, Bob. It's kind of hard to imagine that it wasn't always thus. Right?
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B
Yeah, it does, does. It does.
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C
Yeah.
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A
But also, Adrian, you mentioned that episode 126 and you're going to hear this episode mentioned quite a few times as we roll through. Well, not this episode, but episodes around this. Because it's actually a. A series that Adrian did when she was relatively new with, with Food Safety magazine. But being as brilliant as she is, I'm still proud of my decision and so pleased that you. That you found us, Adrian. It's been such a great fit. But it was for Food Safety Education Month, we did. There was four episodes that month, which was a lot. Adrienne had to read a lot of books and talk to a lot of people. But it's such a great series. So I'm going to I'm starring that one I've started on my papers here, but that one is definitely starred for me. So September, what was it?
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C
2022, I think.
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A
2022. Yeah. So if you look for those September 2022 issues episodes, I'm sorry. Oh, that's an old mistake. You'll find that series. Great job.
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C
Yeah. And we'll have more to talk about with this series too, as we continue on.
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A
Oh, wait a minute. I want to just mention and interject here that episode three featured Lone Dr. Lone Jesperson of Cultivate, and it was her first appearance on, on the, on the podcast. She's done four, so she's quite a regular guest. But that first episode was Culture Comes first and, and we knew back then that culture was obviously very, very important and it has just continued to grow. And you can with some links to those episodes as well, but certainly that first one. So you can check out the beginning conversations and follow along as culture gets explored deeply by Dr. Loan Jesperson.
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C
Yep. Thanks, Stacy. And so another episode we want to Highlight is episode 10. That one was in September 2017, and that one was with former FDA and USDA regulator Michael Taylor. So, as you all are probably aware, Mike led the comprehensive overhaul of FDA's food safety program under FSMA. And he also served as administrator of USDA FSIS after the Jack in the Box E. Coli outbreak in the early 90s, among other important work in his career. So in episode 10, Mike discusses his role at FSIS after the Jack in the Box outbreak, where he advocated for HACCP for meat and poultry and for E. Coli O157:H7 to be labeled as an adulterant. So this kind of ties back in with the first episode with Dave Thino. And the reason why these episodes are so important, aside from the influential work discussed by our guests, is that this Jack in the Box outbreak was one of the most pivotal incidents to influence food safety reform in the US it led to the passage of many new pieces of food safety legislation, which translated into countless illnesses prevented and many lives saved. We also spoke to Mike Taylor again five years later on episode 129 in September 2022. And that was part of this kind of the book club series, as we kind of referred to it, that Stacy talked about. In that episode, Mike shared his reflections on the food safety challenges and advancements since the 1990s, as well as current food safety regulatory proposals. As part of that series of Interviews for National Food Safety Education Month that year. I highly recommend both of these interviews with Mike as essential listening for any food safety professional. I think it's so important to understand our history and how we got to where we are in today's food safety paradigm. So those two episodes will definitely clue you in on some of that.
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A
And the. And Jack in the Box, I think many people believe that. I mean, it kind of started the. The new era of you or the modern era of food safety. So it's. Yeah. Very important.
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B
Yeah, no question.
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C
And speaking of how we got to where we are today, I think we'd be remiss if we didn't mention consumer advocacy in food safety. And so the podcast kind of first episode that focused on consumers took place with Stop Foodborne Illness, which was founded in 1993 in the wake of that Jack in the Box outbreak by a group of foodborne illness victims and friends to address the void they saw in the national food policy arena. So this interview, which was featured on episode 18, was with then CEO of STOP, Deirdre Schloninger. Now, since that time, we've shared interviews with Stop's succeeding CEOs, Mitzi Baum, who appeared on episodes 108, 119, 168, and a bonus episode in September 2024.
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A
Thanks, Mitzi.
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C
Yeah, thank you, Mitzi. And we've also talked to the current CEO of Stop, Sandra Eskin, on episode 146.
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A
And Sandy.
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C
Yeah, thank you, Sandy. And so continuing with this thread of consumer advocacy, we also spoke with attorney Bill marler on episode 25. So Bill represented the most seriously injured survivor of the Jack in the Box outbreak and is now widely considered to be the most prominent foodborne illness lawyer in America. So on this episode in May 2018, Bill spoke about the last quarter century of food safety progress. And then we also spoke to Bill again on episode 128 in September 2022 during that book club series about his reflections on the story of the Jack in the Box outbreak as told in the book Poisoned by Jeff Benedict and also explored in a 2023 Netflix documentary. So Mike Taylor and Bill Marler also talked on their episodes about Dave Thino's influence on food safety. And so we're kind of seeing a theme here many of these episodes tying back to that important first interview with Dave, which is cool.
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A
You know, I want to say that that poisoned the book, you know, by Jeff Benedict when we've hired new people here at Food. I've mentioned this before, but when we've hired new people. I send them a copy of Poisoned. I think that it frames for anybody who's new in the industry. It really helps to frame and understand, you know, where. How we got here. Like you were saying, you know, how did we get here and why we do what we do. Right. And with the. So there's a focus not just on the victims, though, too, but on a lot of the things that unfolded and the regulations and a lot of the people involved and a lot of people that have written for us over the years. When I read it, I was like, I know them. It's sort of a who's who of the industry and a snapshot of that period in time. Somebody I've always wanted to have on the podcast, but who's too shy to be on the podcast. Who played a central role in this is Anne Marie McNamara. And I've never been able to talk Anne Marie into being on the show. Darn it, Anne Marie. Maybe someday she'll get over her fear of the mic, but she played a very, very pivotal role at that time and for the industry long term. So thanks again to you, Anne Marie. Also recipient of the Food Safety Magazine Distinguished Service Award.
- [34:27]
C
Yeah. So I think when we look at our podcast history, we also need to mention episode 33 as a significant moment. And in this episode, Michael McCain, the president and CEO of Maple Leaf Foods, and also Randy Huffman, the chief food safety and sustainability officer at Maple Leaf, sat down for a pretty frank discussion on how far the company has come in keeping food and consumers safe. This is 10 years after the tragic, deadly listeria outbreak that claimed 23 lives and resulted in many serious illnesses associated with meats produced by Maple Leaf Foods in Canada. So this was the first time that the heads of a major company at the center of an outbreak like this sat down with our podcast team to share their candid reflections, guidance, and the lessons learned. And since the 2008 listeria tragedy, Maple Leaf has made enormous strides in its food safety policies and practices. It holds an annual food safety symposium to facilitate continuing food safety awareness for its employees and to commemorate the victims of the 2008 outbreak. So I think this interview does a very deep dive on one of the most deadly foodborne outbreaks in history. And the firsthand accounts of the way this tragedy motivated the company to hyper focus on food safety improvement and to succeed in that endeavor are crucial lessons for every food safety professional out there. This one is definitely, definitely worth a listen if you haven't heard it before, or even a re listen to Remember those valuable lessons. So that was episode 33.
- [36:00]
A
This would be another one that I would. Well, I was thinking about Thino. He used to say, you know, if you're having trouble convincing your CEO to invest in food safety, you have them call me. And he would. He was deadly. He was very serious about that. And I would say that this is, this is a way to make that phone call if, with your CEO or your C suite, if have them listen to, to this episode. It will inform them greatly on the impact that this had on the company and, and, and at the highest level and how that created a culture shift at Maple Leaf that they still, as Adrian mentioned, every year, they still mark this terrible tragedy, but they don't forget and they keep this experience very much alive and creating their culture anew every year around preventing something like this again in the future.
- [36:59]
C
And they've also contributed to Food Safety magazine over the years. So that's a really nice thing as well, to continue collaborating with Maple Leaf Foods. So we thank them for their collaboration. And then also, of course, Randy Huffman is one of our editorial advisory board members.
- [37:17]
A
And Spear Marinakis has been just a tremendous contributor and presenter at the Food Safety Summit over the last few years. She joined Loan in a culture workshop. It was fantastic. I mean, just her. I don't know. So much to share so much great knowledge. And we're so grateful to everybody for sharing their knowledge with us. Yeah.
- [37:40]
C
And so speaking of food safety legends, we were so pleased to be able to sit down not once, but twice with Dr. John Butts, who is the man behind the food industry's widely used seek and destroy process controls for listeria. So listeria control remains an issue, as evidenced by some recent major outbreaks, such as the boar's head listeria outbreak and deli meats that resulted in 10 deaths and many more illnesses in 2024. But we do have the tools to tackle this problem, as Dr. Butts and other food safety experts have explained and showed. So in episode 35, which aired in October of 2018, Dr. Butts talked about why listeria is so problematic in both wet and dry environments, unique ways to sanitize equipment, essential elements of sanitary design, and fundamental sampling protocols. And then we also spoke with Dr. Butts again on episode 127, where he discussed the evolution of meat and poultry safety, prompted by a review of upton Sinclair's groundbreaking 1906 novel, the Jungle. And that was another one of those episodes in the book club series that Stacy's favorite.
- [38:49]
A
Yes, yes, very much so. And you mentioned Boar's Head there, too. And Natalie Dyonson, who has taken over as the chief food safety Officer at Boar's Head, has also been on the podcast desperately trying to find that episode number. But, you know, again, you can search for it and find that if you want to get. Get a little bit of taste for who's taking on all of that responsibility.
- [39:16]
C
And that was, of course, Natalie's previous position as the head of food safety, everything at the International Fresh Produce Association. So it was great to be able to have Natalie on the podcast to speak with us back then. We'll. We'll find out exactly what episode that was and put that in the show notes for you, too.
- [39:34]
B
Well, we were talking beforehand about our favorite episodes, and like Stacy and Adrian said, I think they're all my favorite episodes, so it's hard to pick, but I have a particular favorite episode number 55, where we, in 2019, where we interviewed Laura Gutowski from the CDC. She had to point at that time, she was the team lead for the Foodborne Outbreak Response Team at cdc, and she was talking about how CDC goes about investigating these outbreaks. And one of the things I like about this is she was making a presentation in the summit, and we were able to bring her over to the booth and ask her to be on the podcast. And she went through the process. And what I found interesting about this, and I'll talk about this for just a few minutes, is some of the things that she said were so, I guess, prescient or clairvoyant, whatever word you want to use. Because I still think about this interview quite a bit anytime I think about an outbreak, because I'm trying to see behind the scenes on how they go about this and to understand how we. How they solve these things. So let me talk to you about some of the things that she said. Now, keep in mind, this is 2019, so five, six years ago, we were talking about what she did. She walked through and she said one of the key tools that she discussed that they were using was whole genome sequencing. Anybody ever heard of that before? It was, you know, we talk about it all the time now. But one of the things that she said, she mentioned during the interview that the PulseNet database had, just the Monday before the call, she said in the interview had switched from pulse field gel electrophoresis pfge, and this is a quote to a technology called whole genome sequencing. So wait a second, she was so far ahead of this now. PulseNet had started to put whole genome sequencing sequences into the database before this. And I know that they were growing in 17 and 18, but there weren't enough sequences in the database to really start making connections. But this is where she said that CDC had really cut over to this. And then she talked about something that we'll all recognize, which is the fingerprinting nature of WGS and tracing the source of outbreaks back to the causal food or even back to the manufacturing plant. But she was emphasizing the significant improvement over PFG from this significant change in the market. I think we can all see that's exactly, that's exactly what happened. In fact, I re listened to the interview the other day. It was funny because she said that PFGE was very useful. But she described it as AM radio, which is kind of staticky and it doesn't quite give you the whole answer. But whole GM sequencing was much more in her view, like satellite radio. It's nice and clear, it never drops off. So. But I love that analogy. But she was talking about what a jump this was. She also discussed a lot of the other tools that CDC uses to investigate outbreaks. And this is the thing I think about all the time, every time we're talking about an outbreak, like what's going on behind the scenes, what's the detective work? And she said that one of the things that they use was surveys of individuals which were useful, but people don't often accurately recall what they ate. So Laura discussed the use of shoppers cards and debit credit cards to trace either grocery purchases or visits to restaurants. This was also new and for some perspective, CDC had just a few years ago, before this, in 2019, I'm sorry, in 2009 or 2010, started to look into shoppers cards to get that data to more accurately track the source. So rather than hoping that you get someone to say what they found or what they ate in the days leading up to it, they're actually saying now, let's see your credit card and what restaurant did you go to? We can go back to that restaurant. What did you buy on your shoppers card? I can pull that data. So the idea that databases were starting to be used to get really accurate information instead of surveys is another groundbreaking thing that we know happened. And then she talked about what she talked about in the Summit, but she talked about in the, in the interview that what I'm going to call the puffed wheat case from 2018 and a serial was recalled because of salmonella that caused at least 136 cases in 36 states. In that case People recalled eating breakfast cereal. So in the surveys they said, what did you have for breakfast? Well, I had cereal a couple days, I had something else, but they did not know which type. And the cereal that they seemed to mention was a high sugar type of cereal thought to be what they said at the time was a kid's cereal. And a lot of the people who had gotten ill were middle aged men. And she said, well, they can't be from the cereal because that's a kid's cereal. They don't eat that. Except because they were able to go back to their shopper's cart and find out that that's exactly what they ate. They brought back a box and showed it to some of the people and said, is this the cereal that you ate? Oh yeah, I love those. That's what I normally have. They never would have made that connection without the shopper's card. And then they were also able to then find an unopened box where they were able to find salmonella contamination in the box, type it back with whole genome sequencing and solve this. So the thing I always think about this is not only the technology behind it, but also the people behind it and how you put these pieces together. And she talked. It's a great interview. If you want to go back and listen to it, I recommend it. It's a really great interview that talks about the detective work that goes on behind the scenes and how they put this stuff together. It's not just a matter. And she says this not just a matter of taking a few samples, sending them for wgs, getting it back from the lab and going, look, it's all solved. No, there's all these other pieces. But the other thing I think about this, if they had not been able to a get middle aged men to admit that they're eating kids, number two is find that box. This would have been one of the ones that I talk about a lot, but one of the ones that was never solved. You never would have put those pieces together, but because they have these tools, all of which seem a lot more common because we talk about all the time now. But if they didn't have these tools, that one not very long ago would have been one of these ones that was never solved. At the end of the interview, Barbara asked her a question which again became a very clairvoyant moment in this where she asked, what would you predict will happen in the next five years? Now, five years from there would have been last year, roughly modern time. She said, well, I think we're Going to have better technology, which we do. Better collaboration with state and local public health authorities because they're really the ones that gather a lot of this data. And she also said, wait for it, a far greater role for whole genome sequencing that will allow us to solve more outbreaks and solve them faster. And I think that's exactly what happened. So it was very good at the time and very predictive of the future that we're in. It's like you said, listening to Dave Thino or some of these other. This is one I would recommend everybody listen to because she exactly described what they're doing, what they continue to do, but also what was going to happen. She was spot on.
- [46:19]
A
Yeah.
- [46:20]
C
Yeah, I think so.
- [46:20]
A
But did you like it?
- [46:22]
B
What?
- [46:23]
A
But did you like it that episode?
- [46:24]
B
Yes, I did like it. I will tell you some. A little comic relief. This, this is, as far as I know, this, this, this can be on the trivia, on the trivia question, I think it's the only one where we had an interviewee host the interview because the CDC had a, a studio. So Laura was on the studio on a professional microphone.
- [46:46]
A
I remember that.
- [46:47]
B
Right. And, and Barbara and I on our cell phones asking her question. So we kind of flipped it. But I think that's the only one where we had the interview on their own studio.
- [46:56]
A
Yeah.
- [46:57]
C
Yeah, that's pretty cool. And yeah, thanks for mentioning the episode, Bob, because it certainly is an important one and, you know, kind of goes with that theme of like, you know, understanding how we got to where we are today in food safety. And I think Lara was spot on with a lot of those things she said in that interview.
- [47:17]
B
A little bit of a tongue in cheek warning on this one. The one warning I'll say about this interview is you will, you will look at every investigation that you hear about differently because of the way she talks about connecting the dots, that there is a lot of detective work. And at one point, I don't think this is a quote where she said, once we have 80% of the data, we sort of know that we've solved what's happening. But it's not as if it's. It's perfect, but they do have to do all that detective work. So there's a great deal of really smart stuff that they do behind the scenes. But every time you hear about an outbreak, you'll be going, I wonder what they're doing. And down in Atlanta to figure this out. But, you know, the tools. It's amazing. I've never, I've never looked at an outbreak since then without thinking about it.
- [47:55]
A
Yeah.
- [47:56]
C
Interesting. So one other thing that Food Safety Matters has made an effort to do, and particularly over the last few years, is to expand our guest roster to include more international perspectives. So In November of 2019, the first interview with the European Food Safety Authority, or efsa. As you know, we've talked a lot about different things EFSA is doing on the podcast was conducted with Dr. Marta Huges, who was then EFSA's chief scientist. So Dr. Huges discussed the food safety needs and gaps shaping EFSA's strategy over the next five to 10 years, as well as EFSA's focus on more sustainable, alternative and climate neutral food production systems. Dr. Huguess also talked about the three essential ingredients of risk assessment. Even if you're curious to know what those are, make sure to give episode 61 a listen.
- [48:49]
A
A question for the trivia.
- [48:53]
C
Yeah, there will be a quiz. So another notable interview that I have to point out happened on episode 66 in February of 2020 with Frank Yannis, who then served as FDA's Deputy Commissioner of Food Policy and Response and helped usher in the agency's new era of Smarter Food safety. So Frank, who's an industry veteran from Walmart and Disney and also a microbiologist by training, brought his focus on food safety culture to fda. In fact, Frank is widely regarded as the guy who figuratively and literally wrote the book on food safety culture. Now, we previously talked to Frank on episode 32 when he was with Walmart, as well as episode 46 alongside Lone Jesperson of Cultivate and Mike Robach of GFSI. And then again later on episode 143 in April of 2023, which was the first media interview that Frank gave after he departed fda. So it was really a very cool piece to be able to do with him.
- [49:54]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [49:55]
C
So in this pivotal episode 66, Frank discussed the FDA's progress on the strategic blueprint for the new era of Smarter Food Safety initiative, which at the time was a major influence on shaping FDA's food safety policies and its response. Frank also talked about the future of food traceability and food modernization efforts being implemented globally. Now, during his time at fda, Frank moved the agency far forward in its food safety modernization efforts, especially regarding traceability and culture. And it's an interesting contrast to where we are with today's fda. And definitely worth a listen for Frank's insights and historical perspective on FDA's food safety work.
- [50:38]
A
Yes.
- [50:39]
C
So, okay, during the eight year run of our Podcast, we've seen some major events transpire in food safety and regulatory policy, but one thing that affected everyone, everywhere in the food industry and beyond, was the COVID 19 pandemic.
- [50:56]
A
So I still can't believe we had to go through that.
- [50:59]
C
Yeah, I hope we don't have anything like that in the near future with avian flu or similar. So, but roughly one year into the pandemic, in a bonus episode in March 2020, and in episode 69, that was in April 2020, we looked at the effects of the pandemic on the global supply chain and on company operations. So these effects were far ranging and vast, as supply chain experts John Keough and Carl Yunus discussed in the bonus episode. And in episode 69, Stacy Popham of Barry Calibo and sanitarian Mike Kramer, then at Edge and Emoto Foods and Shawn Layton of Cargill shared how their food safety roles and responsibilities had shifted among the coronavirus pandemic. So throughout 2020, the podcast featured a number of episodes with food safety experts and industry leaders addressing the effects of the pandemic. But I think these first two episodes addressing COVID 19 are insightful not only for providing a picture of a very difficult moment in time, but also for the light they shed on the complexities of the global food supply chain and the continuing effects that we see today from the pandemic. And they also showcase how companies were forced to pivot and transform during COVID 19 to ensure both food safety and worker safety. So definitely check out those two episodes for some perspective on a momentously impactful time in our history as food professionals and as human beings.
- [52:23]
A
Yeah, we learned a lot. And I think that people in the food industry were on the, the front line of learning about exposing problems with the current supply, you know, way supply chains were working and what the, what the possible implications were when something like this happened.
- [52:44]
C
Of course, everyone working in the food industry or essential workers. Right. So they were, they really were on the front lines of the pandemic.
- [52:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had to keep going. I mean, and the food safety professionals became essential, you know, in helping the food companies deal with that. But those, those episodes were very instructional on supply chain and really, really informative at a time when people were looking for answers.
- [53:13]
B
One of the things I remember about that time was somewhat of the death of just in time because the quote we were using at the time was just in case because everybody was down to no supply and people weren't able to operate like that and people weren't to able. I'm not going back to that.
- [53:26]
C
Yeah, yeah, that's changed. That changed a lot of things with how companies approach that. So. Okay, so I also want to call out episode 111 with Dr. Jennifer McIntyre. That was in January 2022, and not only because this was my first interview for Food Safety matters, but also because this interview was recorded when Dr. McIntyre assumed the position of Chief Food Safety and Regulatory Officer at the newly formed International Freshman produce association, or IFPA. So we also spoke to Dr. McIntyre again on the podcast in October 2022, alongside FDA prevention coordinator Steven Hughes about FDA's commodity specific strategies to prevent foodborne illness outbreaks. So Dr. McIntyre, who's a microbiologist by background, has since moved on to form her own consulting group and remains a major force in food safety, contributing to industry and regulatory research, dialogues, conferences, publications, and many other areas. She was also a wonderfully gracious interview guest for my first podcast, and she remains an important contributor and colleague of Food Safety magazine as well.
- [54:33]
A
I remember being how. How happy I was at the time, Adrienne, because the timing. She had just taken over at ifpa and I thought. And I was just so grateful. It's like, oh, Jennifer, that's going to be a great one for Adrian to start out with because of who Jennifer is. And so just awesome. Thanks again, Jennifer.
- [54:52]
C
You also talked about that. What was it? The red light. The red light syndrome. So I remember when we were recording that episode, there was. Everything was going pretty well, but then there was a point where I just had a coughing fit out of nowhere. And Jennifer was so nice to just let me get through it and continue. But it was kind of one of those things where I think my throat got a little strangled because I was nervous. Didn't realize it, but yeah, thank you. Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you for being such a wonderful first guest for me.
- [55:24]
B
So episode. Episode 111 was Adrian's first interview. What's in Dave Thino's briefcase? I'm getting my notes ready.
- [55:32]
C
I think Bob wants to win this trivia tournament. We're gonna. Wow. All right. We have to think of a good prize then. All right.
- [55:41]
A
A sticker.
- [55:43]
C
Sticker. A pin. We have all those things.
- [55:46]
A
So I have all those.
- [55:48]
B
Darn.
- [55:48]
A
Yeah, I think we can do better.
- [55:50]
C
Yeah. Well, we'll think of something great for you, Bob, when you win the tournament. So another one of my favorite standout episodes from the last few years is episode 133 with Dr. Vanessa Kaufman of the alliance to Stop Foodborne Illness. Sherry Bryce, the vice president of Global Quality and food safety at the Kellogg Company and Megan Kendora, senior Manager of Food safety Culture at the Hershey Company. So Vanessa, Sherry and Megan discussed the Alliance's work to drive food safety culture throughout industry, as well as Sherry and Megan's collaborations with other alliance members to achieve non competitive food safety goals. And by the way, we also spoke to Sheri again on episode 159 about her leadership in food safety and supply chain business. That was another great discussion worth listening. So I think that this episode 133 is an incredible blend of industry action and consumer advocacy. And it really shows the value in industry collaboration toward ensuring food safety, you know, which we always say is a non competitive goal. And the emphasis on food safety culture, which is a growing theme throughout the history of Food Safety magazine and the podcast is also notable for these major corporations. So it was great to be able to have Vanessa and then Sherry and Megan on for that episode.
- [57:09]
A
Right. And there were a couple when we were talking about the supply chain stuff back then, you were mentioning a few people and I thought, oh, some of those folks have moved on. Mike Kramer's retired Stacy Popham has moved on to another company, which, I'm sorry, Stacy, it's out of my head right now. But that reminds me now, as we're talking about Sherry Bricewell and Kel Kellogg is now Kenova, but that Megan Kanjora just took a job with Natalie at Boar's Head. So, you know, people to watch. There we go.
- [57:47]
C
Absolutely. So. All right. Continuing with our notable episodes here, we've also been privileged to sit down with the former heads of USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service to discuss poultry safety specifically regarding salmonella, which remains a focus for USDA under the new administration despite the revocation of the proposed regulatory framework to reduce salmonella illnesses attributable to poultry. So in episode 134 in December 2022, I spoke with Sandra Eskin, in her previous role as Deputy Undersecretary for Food Safety at fsis, about the agency's proposed approach to salmonella. And In October of 2024, I sat down with both Sandra and former Undersecretary for Food Safety, Dr. Emilio Esteban, to discuss FSIS's progress on its salmonella regulations. So these two interviews were notable not only because of the distinguished guests, but also because they give a great snapshot of USDA's work and progress on this complex and persistent issue in food safety, especially in contrast to the approaches being adopted by the current administration. And I just want to add thank you, Sandy, for being a longtime listener of the podcast. We often get feedback from, from Sandy Eskin on our podcast. We appreciate, very much appreciate that.
- [59:06]
A
Yes.
- [59:06]
B
I think she says she's driving, so keep your eyes on the roads.
- [59:10]
C
Yeah. So another notable guest from the regulatory sphere in the US was Dr. Susan Main on episode 139 in February 2023, who was then serving as director of the center for Food Safety and applied nutrition, or CFSAN, at FDA. So Dr. Main discussed key Cifsan food safety focuses, such as lessons learned from the 2022 Infant Formula Supply crisis, the advancements offered by whole genome sequencing, the restructuring of the FDA's Human Foods Program, and the closer to zero goals for reducing the presence of toxic metals in infant and baby foods. And we also spoke about the closer to zero goals with Dr. Conrad Choirniere on episode 125 in August of 2022. Another notable interview.
- [59:55]
A
Yes. Thank you, Conrad.
- [59:56]
C
Yeah, thank you. So in this 2023 interview with Dr. Main, we covered so many of the top food safety priorities and concerns for FDA and CFSAN at the time, and many of those remain relevant to this day, despite the wide ranging workforce and structural changes we've seen at FDA in recent months and the elimination of CIFSAN as an FDA department. So Dr. Main continues to be an influential voice in food safety. So go back and check out this episode for some high level regulatory insights.
- [60:26]
A
And keeping up with her on LinkedIn. You're right, she is still very influential.
- [60:32]
C
Yeah, absolutely. I love following her on LinkedIn and seeing her commentary.
- [60:36]
A
Yeah.
- [60:38]
C
So we also place a tremendous importance on listener interest and feedback, which is why we invite you on every episode to contact us with your questions, ideas and suggestions. I've always wanted to say that that's Stacy's line, so. Yeah, and Stacy gave you that email before, but podcastood-safety.com okay. All right. So one episode that stands out for its listener response in terms of downloads and discussions is episode 162 in January 2024 with attorney Brian Sylvester. So Brian discussed the nationwide ramifications and precedents set by the California Food Safety act, which bans four major controversial food additives in foods sold in the state. So since that time and since the dawning of a new presidential administration and the rise of the Maha movement, we've seen a patchwork of state legislation targeting everything from food additives and synthetic dyes to ultra processed foods. Now, we know that companies are concerned about this because products sold nationwide must conform to state specific regulations, and if they don't companies will face harsh legal consequences. So this is a really illuminating episode for, you know, Brian speaking about what the California Food Safety act and you know, legislation like it could mean for food companies having to adjust how they make their products and how they will sell their products. Right. And we're very pleased to let you know that we'll be inviting Brian back on the podcast later this year to discuss how this patchwork of state legislation and the efforts of the MAHA Commission are impacting food additives regulation in the US among other timely regulatory topics. So there's a little teaser for you. Keep an ear open for that episode.
- [62:23]
A
It's coming. And that was with all the MAHA stuff too. I always think of this episode too, in that timeframe of when the states were taking all of those actions as the precursor to so many food companies seemingly folding to no regulation, but just a little suggestion that they might reformulate. I think that we can really trace the origins back to this and probably further back but very important episode. I'm glad you highlighted this one.
- [62:58]
C
Yeah. And so another big get, as we say for food safety matters was my interview with Jim Jones, who became FDA's first deputy commissioner for human foods in September of 2023. So in episode 167 in April 2024, I talked with Jim about implementing and leading a unified human foods program, the importance of stakeholder engagement in decision making and FDA's then current work in food safety. So Jim shared some very enthusiastic and candid insights on his work with stakeholders in his new role, which he unfortunately resigned from in February of this year after what he described as indiscriminate firings of highly technical Experts, experts within FDA's Human Foods Program under the new Trump administration. But we sincerely appreciate Jim taking the time to speak with us back in the spring of 2024 on these important topics ahead of the implementation of the reorganized human foods program later that year in October. And we also thank the new Deputy Commissioner for Human Foods, Kyle Diamantes, for taking the time to sit down with us at this past IAFP conference to discuss the priorities of the FDA's Human Foods Program under the Trump administration. That was in that bonus episode that we've talked about a few times with Kyle Diamantas and Dr. Conrad Schwannier.
- [64:17]
A
And this, this was a big get for us, as you say, getting Jim Jones and I believe again his like his first industry interview. And then Kyle, I do want to mention as well, as far as his first appearance to industry was with us, not the Podcast specifically, but the Food Safety Summit. So Food Safety magazine and the Food Safety Summit. When he joined us on stage at the summit this year, it was very touch and go and he really showed that this was important and he understands, you know, the importance of coming and communicating and chose us, trusted us to, to get that done. So thank you again to Kyle.
- [64:59]
C
Yeah, we just really appreciate, you know, the regulatory agencies collaboration with us. You know, fta, usda, cdc, you know, they, they advise our content for the summit and also for Food Safety magazine. You know, they've appeared in the podcast, we've had them, we've invited many regulatory authorities and experts to speak on our webinars. And we just really appreciate the regulatory agencies collaboration of trust in us and our, our brand. And we thank them for continuing to be a part of Food Safety Magazine, Food Safety matters and the Food Safety Summit.
- [65:37]
A
Yeah, and you remind me of something that we were discussing when we were kind of doing our planning around this was, you know, looking back at. We also happen to be celebrating the 30th anniversary of food Safety magazine this year. And Bob reminded me that back in the day we had contributions, CFSAN and regular columns. You know, ask the regulators. They were not contributing anywhere else. So it's been a very long, you know, relationship of mutual trust. And we so appreciate the regulators trust in us. We've also had Bindi Bershears on the podcast. So, you know, as she hopefully get her hearing and gets confirmed, I can't imagine anything's going to stand in the way of that. But Mindy, we look forward to welcoming you back on the podcast.
- [66:33]
C
Absolutely.
- [66:34]
A
Now. Wow.
- [66:35]
C
Okay, so that was a lot of episodes we just discussed there. But of course we only have enough time to present a small selection of our notable episodes and interviews. But every single guest and episode is truly worth a listen. I mean, you know, without like diving into details. But like, you know, we had Dr. Takeshi Nakamura, a fresh Del Monte, who discussed produce traceability from farm to fork. On episode 179, we had Dr. Jason Richardson, Global VP of Food Quality and safety for Coca Cola, who discussed the company's culture revamp on. On episode 165, we've had Sara Mortimer, formerly of Walmart, on supply chain safety and HACCP in episodes 161 and episode 161.
- [67:18]
A
That's a very popular episode. Yeah, yeah. Sara.
- [67:21]
C
As well as Dr. Barbara Masters of Tyson on food safety regulatory policy. In episode 155, Dr. Steven Lyon of Chick Fil A on food safety innovation in episode 149. And let's not forget Dr. Martin Weidman of Cornell on pathogen interventions on episode 140. Or as Stacy mentioned this several times, we sat down with culture expert Lone Jesperson or food safety advocate Dr. Darren Detweiler or food fraud expert Dr. John Spink. So many more.
- [67:51]
A
Yeah, and I do. And some, you know, go. If you go way back, like episode nine, which I know is Bill Sperber. You know, talk about a legacy. You know, Bill Sperber, we named the episode. We never had had these problems until you came along. It was a great interview. I mean, Bill was a. A world renowned microbiologist and really set the stage, actually helped implement. Right. Haccp. So, you know, we're going back to really foundational folks that we've had the pleasure and privilege of hosting on the podcast.
- [68:36]
C
And also, I believe, a recipient of the Food Safety Magazine Distinguished Service Award. Correct. Bill Swerver and Dr. Der Netwaller. So.
- [68:43]
A
Yeah, and. Well, and we could go on. I mean, there's so many folks in here, so. Yes, yes. And probably future recipients.
- [68:52]
C
Exactly.
- [68:54]
B
Stacy. Stacy, you said something at the top of the episode here about the book Poisoned, which of course everybody should read, but you describe it as somewhat of a who's who in food safety because of what it covered. Going through these episodes. It sounds like the podcast is as well. I mean, the people that we have on the podcast are at the center of everything happening. And I think they, like you said, I think they come here for a reason. I think they respect the magazine, I think they respect what you've done, and I think that they respect what you've done here. But it's very clear if you go through here, I think most of the listeners would know almost everybody, if not everybody, we just talked about as being key industry leaders. And they're coming here to the podcast. And I think that speaks. Speaks volumes.
- [69:42]
A
Well, and that factored very heavily into the decision as well, was realizing that we had access to folks, you know, we. And a lot of the folks that we, you know, associate with regularly are lucky enough to get out to trade shows. Not everybody is able to travel. And so the idea to be able to not just read an article by someone, but to actually hear them speak about it and share their philosophies and their knowledge and their experiences. Anyway, I'm just so grateful to be. To play any part in bringing important information in such a personal way that honors both the speaker and the listener. So. So we're so grateful. We're so Grateful that you all listen.
- [70:37]
C
Yeah, you know, Bob, I think that's a great observation. And Stacy, too, you know, you expressed thanks and appreciation for all that our guests have given us. And, you know, I mean, a lot of these folks, all of these folks have very high profile, very busy jobs, so we really appreciate them taking the time out of their day and their schedule to sit down with us for these guest interviews. And, you know, I think within these episodes, these pivotal discussions on critical food safety questions and challenges and solutions are designed to not only keep you up to date on what's going on in the wide world of food safety, but also to share guidance and information to help you in your work. And, you know, I think in many cases, we. We find that the topics discussed in the podcast years back are still relevant to today's food safety issues, and they certainly show, you know, how we got to where we are today as well. So please take some time to give some of those past episodes a listen and hear from some truly legendary food safety professionals that have taken the time to share their expert insights and guidance with our listeners. It's been a fun, fun look back at these episodes. I think.
- [71:44]
A
It has, it has. Adrienne, you just as usual, did a great job of guiding us through all of that that we so appreciate. So appreciate you. And here's to the next 200.
- [71:57]
C
Right. And, and, and, you know, along with the thank yous. I know we did this already, but, like, listeners, thank you for making our podcast, you know, not only an important part of your. Your lives and your work, but also making our podcast a success. We have some nice metrics to be able to boast about. And, you know, like Stacy said at the very beginning there, most podcasts don't make it to 200 episodes. So we're very happy to be still going strong and long here. So it's pretty cool.
- [72:26]
A
Yes. And in the top 10% of all podcasts around the world, it's a stat that just blows my mind every time.
- [72:35]
C
It is. It's a really cool stat. And whenever I tell anybody that, they're like, wow, really? And your podcast is on what I say. Food safety. They're like, okay, so, you know, and.
- [72:48]
A
And that points to the B2B factor, right? I mean, the fact that we do this as a. That, that we've. We've seen this sort of success as a B2B podcast is really, really remarkable.
- [72:59]
C
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [73:01]
A
Yeah. So thanks again to everyone who has shared their experience and their voice on the podcast over these last 200 plus I believe it's like 257 when you count the bonuses and of. But who's counting? Thanks to all of you for listening. Without the support of listeners like you, or maybe I'm going to go back to the top, y'. All, we would not have reached this exciting milestone. And a very special thanks to the presenting sponsor of our 200th episode, CDG Chlorine Dioxide, producer of Solution 3000, an ultra pure aqueous solution of of chlorine dioxide. To learn more about their unique approach to chlorine dioxide, Visit their website cdgenvironmental.com and as always, you know, we love, love, love hearing from you. So please wait a minute here. You do it, Adrian.
- [74:05]
C
Don't hesitate to send us your questions or suggestions to podcast@food-safety.com.
- [74:14]
A
Or post a note on LinkedIn, X, Facebook, or Instagram. We love. See, it's true. We love getting your feedback.
- [74:22]
B
All right, stay. I get to do the next one then. If Adrian got that one.
- [74:26]
A
Oh, that's right.
- [74:27]
B
It's got my favorite word.
- [74:28]
A
I love this one. All right.
- [74:30]
B
I have to get myself ready, though. Okay, make sure that new and bonus episodes magically appear in your pocket podcast player. All you have to do is click or follow that subscribe button in the player of your choice and presto, bingo. All the episodes appear.
- [74:45]
A
You're not going to finish.
- [74:47]
B
And while you're there, please throw some stars our way. Rating the podcast, especially if you enjoyed it. It only takes a moment and it's good for everyone.
- [74:55]
A
You guys have just made my day. I'm actually a little. I'm a little misty over here. Okay, that's it for us today. Our next regular episode will post on September 9th. In the meantime, take good care of yourselves and those around you, and we'll talk to you then.