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Arsenal and Spurs kick off Champions League campaigns with wins – Football Weekly
00:49:17
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Nicky Bandini and Philippe Auclair as Arsenal win in Bilbao and Spurs host Villarreal to start this season’s Champions League
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- [00:00]
Max Rushden
This is the Guardian. Hi, Pod fans of America. Max here. Barry's here, too.
- [00:12]
Barry Glendenning
Hello.
- [00:12]
Max Rushden
Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable Paper Pro. We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the Paper tablet category. Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology. But there's something new and exciting. And the Remarkable Paper Pro Move.
- [00:32]
Barry Glendenning
Remarkable. A brand name and an adjective.
- [00:35]
Max Rushden
Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to DoS and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office. Like maybe a football journalist. Barry. Although not like you.
- [00:56]
Barry Glendenning
A proper football journalist.
- [00:57]
Max Rushden
Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This paper tablet doesn't. It'll never beep or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks. And if you do need to recharge, you can. You can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes. Barry.
- [01:26]
Barry Glendenning
Fantastic.
- [01:27]
Max Rushden
Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today. Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. The Champions League returns. A great night for Gabriel Martinelli as Arsenal win in Bilbao. He and fellow not really forgotten man Leandro Trossard come off the bench to win it for the Gunners. Thomas Frank gets his first win in his first Champions league game. Spurs 1, Villarreal 0. Not a classic. If you want one of those, perhaps pick turin Juve. Dortmund 00 at half time. 42 to Dortmund. After 90 minutes and 4 all at full time, Dani Carvajal sees red. Can you believe it? But Real Madrid get a silly handball penalty to beat Marseille. And there are great away wins for Karabag and Union Saint Gilois in the Carabao. Grimsby win again, this time at troubled Sheffield Wednesday. Also today, we'll do some Serie A Russell Martin's bonding swim in Loch Lomond just as the weather turns. Your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning.
- [02:38]
Barry Glendenning
Welcome.
- [02:39]
Max Rushden
Hi, Max. Hey. Nicky Bandini.
- [02:41]
Nicky Bandini
Morning.
- [02:41]
Max Rushden
And bonjour. Sava. Philippe au Claire Sava.
- [02:45]
Philippe Auclair
Max, good morning.
- [02:46]
Max Rushden
Yes, good morning. Let's go to Bilbao Athletic club Nil Arsenal 2. A tough game for Arsenal against one of the better pop. 4 teams only 2 English sides had ever won in Bilbao. Manchester United somehow last year in the semi final first leg, Liverpool in 1983, 84 and Philippe like a really big night for Trossard and especially Martinelli, I think.
- [03:06]
Philippe Auclair
Is Mikel Artetao a genius or the jammiest of managers? Because it's quite rare, you know, very often you'd have scores with his first touch and coming on the pitch, but assists with his first touch, scores with his first touch, then reverse the roles to make it 2 0. I don't think there have been too many examples of that. And yes, it was a very big night for them. It perhaps was a game that felt a little bit tenser than it ought to have because of the atmosphere in the ground, which was absolutely magnificent throughout the. And the fact that Arsenal actually found it quite unpleasant, I have to say, to play against a team that is so physical, so direct and not as bereft technically as some people had said. And it's not all just rough and tumble and they did struggle a little bit until. Well, the huge advantage that they've got even having five players out because of injury is to be able to change the game by a couple of substitutions. It really worked in more ways than one. It's not just about the personnel, but it's also the fact that we were not. I don't think we were expecting Trossard perhaps to come up as a kind of false 9 or actually real 9, but maybe perhaps on the left wing and seeing gaze in a more advanced position as a number 10. That's not what happened. And the fact the two of them combined so well for the two goals is. Yeah, I mean it's a major Filip for both players and for Michael Arteta as well. And you look at it now, Max, and you see the games that they have lined up, I mean there's a couple of more difficult ones, but you think, yeah, that was probably the toughest assignment they had in this group phase was to get a result of a good result like this in St. Mammoth. And they did. And in the end with a bit to spare. There was no. There were a Few situations where it was a little bit tense, let's put it that way, where Athletic threatened to threaten. But in the end, David Raya had a much quieter game, perhaps than you would have expected.
- [05:15]
Max Rushden
I mean, for Martinelli, Niki, it's like sort of the perfect moment, isn't it, to get a chance that plays totally into your strengths, that is being really fast, a strength that perhaps the guy who's taken your shirt, Eze, doesn't have. And also, like, there was one brilliant touch in that move, but just to. Because the chances of that actually happening are quite slim. That Arsenal hadn't really got through like that until that moment.
- [05:35]
Nicky Bandini
Yeah. Just to quickly pick up on what Philippe said, I mean, Arsenal do have to go away to Inter, who were finalists last season, before the end of the group.
- [05:42]
Max Rushden
Written off again. Written off, written off again.
- [05:44]
Nicky Bandini
Inter Milan. They haven't started. Great. So maybe. Maybe Philippe's right. I just thought. Just thought I'd mention it. But the Martiali thing is really interesting to me. I think there was some phrasing that Arteta used in his postgame interviews where he talked about finishers. And what came into my head was not finishes in the sticking the ball in the back of the net sense, because I think that's not what he meant. I think what he was talking about was kind of this idea, and I should say, before I introduce this concept to the conversation, I really know nothing about baseball, but I understand that there is this concept of a closing pitch. I'm familiar with this idea that you have certain pitches that come in, in the late innings who are a fresh arm and who have that, I guess, bring that extra zip when you've got your starting pitch are the guys who's pitching the ball game is a bit more tired. And I. I do think this is a concept that's been kicked around, obviously forever in some form in football, or certainly for as long as we've had substitutes, which is forever as far as our generation is concerned. The idea of a superstar is not new, but I do think when you look at the squad that Arsenal are building, when you look at the amount of depth that was added this summer, it shouldn't be outrageous to. To look at a player's qualities and say, look, well, certain people bring some qualities, certain people bring other qualities. But actually, as basic as it sounds, having someone who's electrically quick at the end of a pitch. Come on, at the end of a game, come on. Is an incredible tool to have off the bench, and it shouldn't be. Even though of course, footballer footballers always want to play all the time. It shouldn't be a slight on a player to say, actually, sometimes you're most effective when you are playing those last 20 minutes of the game, when you are playing that role of being the closer, as it were. And I think that very clearly in this game, which, as Philippe has already talked about with Athletic, athletics started with such tempo and such intensity. And you saw, I thought, the different strengths of Arsenal in that period, because even though Athletic had the better of the play early on, Arsenal really didn't give up a lot in terms of real chances. And I thought Mosquera was really good, by the way, one of the understated signings less talked about so far this season. But then if you can do all that and you can have maybe not the flashiest game from Jokerez. I know everyone's going to look at it and go, he didn't score, or whatever, but I actually thought he did some pretty decent work holding the ball up and being that target man for a long time. You have those tools to weather an early storm and then you have a different tool that you can bring in late in the game, which is someone who is going to point straight at those tired defenders and make them feel even more tired, which I think is a strength that Martinelli has.
- [08:17]
Max Rushden
Yeah, Usain Bolt still has a chance despite his first time being like a TR trampoline. Barry. Actually, Nicky mentioned Mosquera and I thought, like, he just looks so ready to be in one of the best defences in world football, I guess.
- [08:30]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, he was really good against Nottingham Forest. He didn't put a foot wrong here. The only thing I'd say is he didn't have to do a huge amount, but maybe that's because he was there, I don't know. And such a reassuring presence alongside Gabriel. I think Saliba was fit last night, but obviously Arsenal have City coming up at the weekend. That's a much more important game for them because this one opening match of the league phase doesn't really matter whether you win or not in terms of Arteta's finishers, I think he specifically referenced rugby union as where he'd come up with this great idea of using substitutes. And while it would be easy to mock him because listening to him talk about this innovative wheeze of taking off tired players and bringing on players who aren't tired, I think he was more using it to make the subs he did bring on feel better about the fact that they weren't picked in the first place because he did go on this soliloquy of, you know, how it hurts him to have to leave players out, and he looked into Martinelli's eyes and he knew he was ready. Interestingly, I was doing the minute by minute report of this game and a reader emailed in and said the goal sums up all the frustrations Arsenal fans have about Martinelli. Insofar as, right, we know he's incredibly quick, but his first touch was poor. His second touch was great and it was one of those chances where he didn't have to lift his head and make a decision about what to do. And his shot was actually not great. The keeper should have kept it out. I'm not having a go. It was, it was a good goal. But I wouldn't read too much into this performance beyond the fact that Arsenal went to a hostile environment and won without playing particularly well.
- [10:31]
Nicky Bandini
I think this, it's not like a new thing to read into it, so it's in some sense very obvious thing to say, but I do think we can read into it that very specifically last season, a weakness of this team that came to bear late in the season was a lack of options up front when a little bit of fitness worry came in. And what has been abundantly clear in this game and in the early part this season is this is no longer the era in which you might have to say, oh, we're going to start away from home in Europe with Mikel and Marino up front. And that's not a knock on Reno, who of course I think earned a lot of goodwill and unfortunately becomes this figure who's just symbolic of something, which is the lack of options that Arsenal had in, in, in the late part of last season. But it matters, right? And that's. That is the thing. It is a difficult balancing act for the manager, keeping everyone happy. But if you want to be a successful team in multiple competitions now in, in 2025, you do have to have really top quality players who aren't starting games. You have to have that. And I think that clearly it's not a new point to make, but still, the fact that you're seeing it in a game like this I think is still relevant, I guess.
- [11:39]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Arteta said it means that Martinelli and Trossard are connected and they feel that they're really, really important. We've discussed that a lot. We're going to need that. Piero Hincape comes in and plays five minutes, so does Christian Norgaard, and it's the best five minutes of their lives. It's A good result. But producer Joel points out it's a.
- [11:56]
Barry Glendenning
Marvelous shite, doesn't he?
- [11:58]
Max Rushden
Tristan Norgaard has got three children and yet this is the best five minutes of Christian Norgaard's live. Actually, I did want to ask about Med. Okay. Philip, you know, at the moment, you know, God. You think they've got the two best attacking right right sided attackers in English football or English right sided attackers, I should say, in Saka and Madawaki. He's played brilliantly since he's got there.
- [12:18]
Philippe Auclair
I mean it's, it's. I was going to say. Yes, we have to talk about, you know, we have to talk about Nonni. So it sounds like the title about of something, doesn't it? And it was again, absolutely superb. I find it quite difficult to remember for the Arsenal an attacking player who's slotted in as quickly as well as Noni Madwike has from the beginning, especially when he came to the club. I don't think that most people would have expected the kind of thing.
- [12:51]
Max Rushden
5,000 people signed a petition, just I don't know what to get it overturned.
- [12:56]
Barry Glendenning
I think they were Internet crazies.
- [12:58]
Max Rushden
Right.
- [12:59]
Barry Glendenning
I'm going to go out of my way this season to distinguish between Arsenal's Internet crazy fans and their actual fans. And I think I'm going to guess it was the Internet crazy.
- [13:12]
Max Rushden
If you're not an Internet crazy, you're not signing that petition. You're just going to have. You're going to go and have lunch anyway.
- [13:19]
Barry Glendenning
Philippe.
- [13:19]
Philippe Auclair
No, no. And one of the things as well, when you see how well he's doing, it's highlighting what is perhaps one of the few problems that Arteta has to address, which is the unbalance between the flanks. At the moment it's going really, really well on the right because Jurgen Timber is absolutely rocking at the moment as well and has found obviously understanding, natural understanding with Animadwa K, who is very direct, feels totally confident when Martin Houdillard as well comes back, who tends to be right sided. Sorry. You're going to have a very, very strong right side and the left side is not quite working the same way. But you would probably say that essay, potentially speaking, is probably a better player than the nimadwicket, perhaps more versatile, more multidimensional. But you also have the feeling that it's not quite happening with Calafiori. There were a couple of examples of passes going astray that Calafiori was expecting Ise doing a particular round on the left hand side, which he didn't he went inside instead, which is a natural position, basically. So there has to be now a rebalancing of the sides and. And on the left hand side, it hasn't happened yet. And is it going to be with Calafiore? Is it going to be with Louis Kelly, who everybody was raving about, you know, a few months ago and who now seems to be back in the pecking order? And you've got Hincapier coming, who also plays on the left, can play central defense, but more so plays on the left. And Essay is not completely yet at ease in this position. And when you compare with Nonimaduike who's arrived and I think the contrast between the two makes it even more impressive or impresses us even more when we think about the performance of the former Chelsea player who's honestly been absolutely superb. And I think as well, I mean, it's just he looks so at ease in himself and he looks like a player.
- [15:16]
Max Rushden
He's smiling, he's happy, he's smiling, he's.
- [15:19]
Philippe Auclair
Happy, he's producing the goods. He's obviously a proper team player who does a lot of work defensively as well. He's extremely generous, but he's also bloody good when he has the ball at his feet. Not just quick, but also bloody good as he's shown with England as well. So one of the. I mean, I have to say the signings have been. You were talking about Mosquera, but I wanted to add my voice to that because I just love central defenders who you don't see. And I don't see him when he's on the pitch, it's like nothing happens on his side. He was not made once. That's the. In that game. But other than that, it's very, very impressive.
- [15:58]
Barry Glendenning
I was going to raise the subject of Madueke before you brought it up, Max, and I'm slightly surprised by what Philippe's eulogy there. He shows plenty willing. They get him the ball out the touchline regularly. He's good at beating a man. He's quick. I think his crossing is poor. And he does that really infuriating thing you see from wingers sometimes that where he just shoots for the sake of shooting, even though there's no. It's going to be blocked or it's going to be a weak shot from a narrow angle. So would you be prepared to concede that there's a lot of room for improvement? Yeah, I mean, he's no assists yet, no goals. I think he's either played three or four Full matches and made a substitute appearance.
- [16:46]
Max Rushden
Poor Nonny. There we are. Thing is brilliant actually. Larry has uncovered the truth. But. No, I take your point. I do take your point. That you know. But. But I think he is very exciting, very direct. I think he's been really good for England as well, which probably is. And I don't know if he has goals and assists for England yet this season. But. But.
- [17:03]
Philippe Auclair
And what a goal it is. It was. That was the goal against Serbia. The two.
- [17:08]
Max Rushden
Yes. A brilliant goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. So. So that is sort of colored my, you know, my picture of how well he started this season. Anyway, we'll move on from Nonny Mad to Spurs who beat Villarreal 1 0. Got a very lucky early goal and that was. That was kind of the game like a win and three points in their opening Champions League game. Thomas Frank's first ever Champions League game. I guess you go, this is good, Barry.
- [17:28]
Barry Glendenning
I would say it was similar to the Arsenal result. They didn't play as well as Arsenal did, but it was workmanlike. They got a bit lucky with the goal, obviously with the Villarreal keeper more or less pushing a cross into his. A low cross into his own net. Thought Lucas Bergwa and Papasara played. I thought my Palace. Avi Siemens was very lucky not to get sent off for two buckle offenses. He. He got away with the second one. Mickey van der Ven was very good. There's talk he could have possibly got a red as well or maybe even conceded a penalty. I don't think it was a penalty. I think it was outside the box. But for Thomas Frank to. To win his first Champions League game in charge at home, that. That is undeniably good. But it was not a good game and I think spurs were a little bit lucky.
- [18:21]
Max Rushden
I guess the interesting thing Nicky, is that we have observed already is like the difference between Ange's spurs and Frank's Spurs. And I wonder, is it easier to make an attacking team a bit more solid than it is to make a more solid team a bit more attacking?
- [18:34]
Nicky Bandini
That's a good question. Maybe relevant to another team we'll talk about later as well. I'm not sure it's as simple as that. I do think that it's certainly true that cliche that I feel like you hear all the way up from youth football coaching to the top level is scoring a goal is the hard thing to do. Right? That's one of the hardest bits to do in football is actually get the ball in the Net. And so if you can do that, then building from that platform is perhaps perceived to be a little bit easier. But I also think that you can lean on other cliches and talk about the fact that actually across Europe's top leagues, very often I haven't got a statistical meta analysis to point to, but very often your league winners are teams that concede the fewest goals at the end of the season. That comes out a lot when you do look at that sort of data. We can't watch 90 minutes of every game on a Champions League night. And my attention was on a different one.
- [19:23]
Max Rushden
And you're lucky it was.
- [19:25]
Nicky Bandini
From what I saw of this, it didn't seem like there was no chances given up at all in this game. It certainly looked like Nicolas Pepe had some opportunities in the game and perhaps Buchanan as well on the two wings. Look, I think again we've talked with Arsenal about the more difficult games in the group and via on paper certainly look like one of the tougher games in Tottenham's schedule. So if you get that free goal given to you, it was a give me the goal. There's not a lot of credit. You think, look at that and think it's less their work than it is the mistake by Junior. But in the end, once you've got it so early in the game as well, you have to judge the rest of the game based on that goal. Tottenham didn't need to score another goal, so it wasn't their responsibility to go out and chase one.
- [20:06]
Philippe Auclair
Your question is actually is really profound.
- [20:10]
Max Rushden
Thank you so much. Aren't they all. Aren't they awfully.
- [20:13]
Philippe Auclair
Well, this one is. It's like a saga so sea. It's like the Mariner trench. It's actually. Holy moly. Yes. Is it more difficult to make attacking team defensive or defensive team attacking? Because. And in fact there's no answer to it. It's. It's. I think it's. It's just as easy to do one or the other. It's not as easy to make it work is the way I would put it. For example, if you see what. If you want to make a more attacking thing more defensive. It's a question. Okay. You're going to decide. I'm going to use a tactical system which is going to be like. I'm going to use. I'm going to take a leaf out of Tony Pulis book and I'm going to play a 6, 4 nil. That would be more defensive. Doesn't mean it's got a work Max. But if you see, for example, what Ruben Amorim is doing, say, with Manchester United, he wants to make the team more attacking, which they are. I was amazed to see that. Looked at the stats, expected goals, chances, touches in the position box, Manchester United are in the top three in all, but he's done that. But it doesn't work. So the most difficult thing is the transition, I suppose, if that's a way out of this conundrum.
- [21:34]
Max Rushden
No. Thank you for thinking about my. As usual, very profound question.
- [21:38]
Barry Glendenning
On another night, Villarreal could have had a penalty and Nicola Pepe could have scored three goals. Well, maybe not Nicola Pepe. He might have scored one or two.
- [21:48]
Max Rushden
I'm not interested in this profound stuff, Barry.
- [21:51]
Barry Glendenning
I just. I don't want to burst the balloon of your profundity, but.
- [21:55]
Max Rushden
Yeah, that's all right. It's just a tiny balloon.
- [21:57]
Nicky Bandini
Anyway, I think part of the story here though as well is just from Tottenham's point of view, getting the ball rolling, of being back in the Champions League, having what by all accounts was a fantastic atmosphere in the stadium and delivering on those three, on getting the three points. There's so much in football that does come down to detail and tactics and specifics and the transitions, as Philippe has just mentioned, which is such a big part of the modern game, particularly where formations are no longer these rigid things that we're used to talking about from the past. But I do think there's also still something to be said for mood and for momentum. And I think that getting the positive start in the end, in one of the trickier games on Tottenham's schedule, it sets them up very, very well for this group stage.
- [22:43]
Max Rushden
Very quickly, Philippe, can I ask you for a 22nd view of Kolo Moane and how good or not a signing that is for Tottenham?
- [22:51]
Philippe Auclair
I think it's potentially a very, very good signing in terms of. I don't think he's been in the environment yet where he can actually show everything he can do. He's very willing, very courageous, very generous player who is also a very decent finisher. But again, I think what's been lacking for him so far is the environment, which is something I would say about so many players who've had, who spent some very important years of their development at Paris Saint Germain. It seems to be like a recurrent theme. You look at them and you think, oh, are they that good? I say, yeah, he's that good. So you should be excited.
- [23:35]
Max Rushden
Okay, thank you so much. And that'll do for part one. Part two will begin with Juve 4, Dortmund 4. Hi, Pod fans of America. Max here. Barry's here too.
- [23:45]
Barry Glendenning
Hello.
- [23:46]
Max Rushden
Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable Paper Pro. We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the Paper tablet category. Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology. But there's something new and exciting. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move.
- [24:06]
Barry Glendenning
Remarkable. A brand name and an adjective.
- [24:09]
Max Rushden
Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to do's and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office. Like maybe a football journalist. Barry.
- [24:26]
Barry Glendenning
Although not like you, a proper football journalist.
- [24:30]
Max Rushden
Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This Paper takes Tablet doesn't. It'll never beep or buzz to try and grab your attention so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks. And if you do need to recharge, you can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes.
- [24:59]
Barry Glendenning
Barry, fantastic.
- [25:00]
Max Rushden
Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So, in Turin, astonishing game between Juventus and Borussia Dortmund. Nil. Nil. At half time, it seemed obvious to me, Niki, that this game would end with Lloyd Kelly scoring a diving header to salvage a point for juve in a 4 all draw.
- [25:42]
Nicky Bandini
I mean, why not Max? He did score the opening goal of the Deputy d' Italia at the weekend as well, which by the way, was a really good finish in that game against Inter, which was completely eclipsed by the fact that the rest of that game was utterly bonkers. And for me, having obviously watched that at the weekend, I almost feel like I've just been in this four day long delirium of Juventus playing some of the most unexpectable, unpredictable, ridiculous football that I've watched in a while. I mean they've scored eight goals in four days. They've conceded seven goals in four games. They had a two goal comeback against Inter with the winning goal coming in injury time. They were nil, nil at half time of this game and then wound up four, having been down four two at the start of injury time. Everything that is happening on the pitch with this club at the moment just feels like some sort of completely out of body experience. And Lloyd Kelly, who really last season was a bit of a scapegoat, it felt like at Juventus for things that weren't his fault, for the fact that the club went out and spent over 100 million in the transfer market and bought a bunch of players who didn't pan out that great so far. I mean, Koopmeiner still hasn't lived up to the player he was at Atlanta. Douglas Luiz obviously wasn't a hit after coming from Aston Villa. And to fund all that sold Dean Hyson, who's been brilliant since leaving Juventus, then they have to go out and get Lloyd Kelly. Last season it was a bit like, why are we signing this guy who's not Dean Hyson and we're spending actually a tiny bit more to get him and we've done all this that we can have all these players who aren't even that good. There was a real sense of frustration around it and. And now, yes, he's been in the heart of the madness these last few days and I mean, I don't know what to tell you. I had a moment of premature thinking this last season under Thiago Motta and was proven wrong. So I don't want to jump the gun, but I do worry that Juventus are in danger of becoming an incredibly entertaining team to watch all of a sudden.
- [27:50]
Max Rushden
And like the goals, Barry in this game it was like, what was that game? Was it Belgium, USSR or USSR? Denmark in Mexico 86 where every goal is like a ping from 30 yards. Like they just got, I don't think got better and better, but they were all good.
- [28:03]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, most of them were Felix and Chaz I think for put Dortmund 21 up was my favorite. Lovely strike from outside the box that sort of curled outside the upright. And then back in the first one for Dortmund. Adeyemi again outside the box, pulls a low shot into the very bottom corner. Vlahovic, he got two, didn't he?
- [28:27]
Max Rushden
Yeah.
- [28:28]
Barry Glendenning
One running onto a nice weighted ball again, finishes into the far corner. And his second one was a stab home from the edge of the six yard box from a. Another lovely cross and Lloyd Kelly's I'm going to say diving header is slightly generous. It was falling like a tree and the. But he did well to steer the ball inside the upright. Another man could easily have put it wide. So he did more than.
- [29:00]
Max Rushden
He did more than. Who's called that own goal for Leeds. Good munching. He did more than Goodmanson, didn't he?
- [29:08]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, loads of good goals. Bonkers game. They'll both, I suppose be happy with a point. Juventus would be happier because they were two down in after 90 minutes.
- [29:18]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I don't think dawn would be that happy given what happened yield his goal as well.
- [29:21]
Barry Glendenning
But the thing is it doesn't matter. Max.
- [29:23]
Max Rushden
No, but nothing matters really. I don't want to get too, I don't get too profound. I've already got profound once. But nothing really matters.
- [29:29]
Barry Glendenning
PSG last season. Yeah like PSG lost three of their first five games, drew another and they still won the tournament. So you, you're looking at this and you're going at oh, brilliant game four. Four but doesn't matter.
- [29:44]
Nicky Bandini
It's interesting that and I, I, I think it largely agree with Baz, but it is worth saying events are away to viral and away to Real Madrid so there is a chance they could be looking at this and thinking we really needed to get those three points at home if they've got one point after those three. Although as you say Baz, they could probably lose both those games and still get through because, because of the format it sounded like Max was trying to say the word yield is in there as well because I thought his goal hasn't been mentioned yet, which was also an absolute.
- [30:10]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, that was actually probably the best of them.
- [30:13]
Nicky Bandini
It was brilliant. And I think that Yield is. Yildiz is on the verge of one of those seasons. I think he's been brilliant every game so far and I think he's obviously just turned 20 years old. He's very much the guy who this team is being built around. I think that I won't be surprised if we're talking about him as one of the absolute breakout stars of this season by the end of the campaign. And doing it in Europe obviously is the bit which is going to get noticed internationally. But yeah, he's really good. I think he's going to be special. Vlahovic, who hasn't always lived up to, to the, the hype around and certainly not the transfer fee that he got when he joined from Fiorentina, which I think was about 70 million euros. I thought this was a brilliant showing for him off the bench. And I think that not just the two goals, but he also set up Lloyd Kelly's goal. And actually when. When he scored the third goal. So still losing at this point, you could see on the camera, he turns around, he's giving it, like, jabbing his finger at one of the defenders and giving him the. You're talking too much chat. And given that was three minutes into injury time and they were still losing, to turn around two minutes later and actually set up the equalizer as well. I mean, he certainly delivered on. On. On whatever it was that wound him up. But, yeah, this was. This was a crazy game of football. Also worth saying, in this game, I think Juventus extremely unlucky. Not Lloyd Kelly. In fact, extremely unlucky not to get a penalty in the first half when there was a handball by the defender. I think it was Anton who was challenging him for. And then I thought, pretty unlucky to give away a penalty. And which. The last goal for Dortmund, because it was one of those handballs where Kelly's falling on the floor. There's not a lot that he can do because he's just trying to keep himself from hurting himself as his face hits the floor.
- [31:50]
Philippe Auclair
Just one thing, Max, because we've barely talked about Borussia Dortmund. It's understandable because of the way that the game went. But you have to say Borussia Dortmund did a fantastic job at losing from a completely wrong position.
- [32:05]
Nicky Bandini
Which is also on brand. Right? That's also on brand for them.
- [32:08]
Philippe Auclair
They just couldn't believe. They couldn't believe they were in this position. Position. And they totally lost everything. They didn't know what to do.
- [32:14]
Max Rushden
The third goal is like. Someone can just lump that up the line. I don't know what they're doing. It's total insanity. Anyway, to the Burnabout Rail. Two Marseille. One handball penalty that. That Real Madrid won with. I don't know. I mean, I. I say it's ruining football. I mean, I'm still watching it and enjoying it, so I don't know if it's ruining it, but I just find that decision just the sort of. It feels like the desperation to give that decision, you know, railway down to 10 men. Anyway, Philippe, you watched it. Take it away.
- [32:46]
Philippe Auclair
Yeah, I watched it and I have to say I was entertained. It was a hell of a game. One of the most open games I've seen in a long time. I think in some ways it was more open than Juve Borussia Dortmund, because it was over the 90 minutes. It was crazy from the start, absolutely crazy. I don't know if those managers are trying to make their teams more defensive, but it didn't look like it. Apparently, though, that's why Xabi Alonso is trying to instill a bit of discipline, but whatever. But if you want to go to the penalties, I mean, I am actually still seething about that. I do have, it must be said, a soft spot for an epic Marseille, like many French people do. And I hate pining on referees, but I will.
- [33:30]
Max Rushden
Well, I don't think it's the referee necessary, it's just the whole law.
- [33:34]
Philippe Auclair
Oh, my goodness. Come on. I mean, there is an obvious handball. Eder Militao puts his elbow out, stops a shot by conduct, I believe, bang in the box. Whoever was the director of the broadcast gives one quick replay and then forgets about it. We never hear about it anymore. It's hard. It's not mentioned in commentary. It was a penalty, okay. And then we see that, you know, what can Medina do? I mean, he's falling. What is he supposed to do?
- [34:05]
Max Rushden
And he's made a good challenge as well. He's made a good challenge, absolutely.
- [34:09]
Philippe Auclair
It's insane. And you think, okay, if it. I mean, we always go back to that. Either you've got to rule. If he touches the arm, the hand, it's handball, it's a penalty. And in every single circumstance. And you can sort of accept that, even if it's ludicrous. But in this case, you had a clear example of the same offense, if that is an offense being unpunished in one way and punished in the other, changing completely the nature of the game. And also the way we're talking about the game, like it was crazy, that again, the commentator was eulogizing, talking about Kylian. Mbappe didn't have a good game all of the time. He scored two pence. Well, great. Completely caught in that narrative of Real Madrid, you know, that's real. That's the Bernabeu, blah, blah, blah. Kyren Mbappe, blah, blah, blah. The fact is, Marseille should have won, and that's what is going to infuriate them. And that the best sequences of play were by Marseille, but they were unable to capitalize on that. And something happened as well in this game, which was Carvajal sending off, which was pretty obvious, you know, if you headbutt somebody, you're going to be sent off.
- [35:20]
Max Rushden
Probably not lasting damage, I would say, with that headbutt.
- [35:23]
Philippe Auclair
Yeah, no lasting damage, but Carvajal off Yeah, so you are. But Xabi Alonso knew how to react to that by going three at the back and basically playing a kind of three, three, three, which meant that they still had got some attacking potential, but they were tighter. And Marseille did what happens so often to teams that play 11v10. Instead of keeping the same energy, instead of going at Real Madrid as they had done previously, they suddenly calmed down thinking, holy shit, we're in a position where we can get a really good result at Real Madrid and they're down to 10, what should we do? Which is the moment when Real Madrid got back into the game. But, you know, unfortunately, the talk about the refereeing is going to dominate and certainly dominates in France. Everybody's talking about it and in fact, it's dominating the way I'm talking about that game, which in other ways was also. Absolutely. I mean, was a cracker. It was a cracker. It was so open. And I have to say, you know, it was also. I think if I were a proper OM supporter, it's not that my heart would be in my mouth all the time. I would have chewed it 10 times over. When you see the way that De Zerbi asks his players to take the ball out of their half of the pitch against the team, which under Xabi Alonso is now starting to press much more than he did in the past, with even Kylian Mbappe doing a bit of pressing, which is something that Didier Deschamps will have noticed and which is apparently one of the reasons why Vinicius Jr, the guy who should have been Ballon d' or instead of Rodri, or so we are told, was on the bench.
- [36:59]
Max Rushden
Interesting.
- [37:00]
Philippe Auclair
Interesting times.
- [37:01]
Max Rushden
Probably good that Real Madrid got some decisions, but because obviously so many go against them as performance of the night is Carabag Barry?
- [37:10]
Barry Glendenning
Yes, the Horsemen from Azerbaijan. This is their second crack at the Champions League. Their manager, Gerben Gerbanov has been in charge for 17 years. Yeah, Carabag. And they get through three qualifying rounds to get into this league phase. They beat Shelburne from Ireland, Skender and Ferenc Varus to qualify for the Champions league proper went 2 nil down. Peter Drury was commentating on this game for TNT Sports. Benfica's second goal was greeted with textbook jewelry. And I have to say, I love it. I'm a big fan. It's not for everyone. Benfica blistering and brutal and belligerent, but their belligerence was. Was quickly knocked out of them as carabag came from 2 nil down to beat them 3, 2 courtesy of goals from Leandro Andrada, Camilo Duran and a fellow called Kashchuk, who scored a nice goal on the turn. But brilliant result for Carabag because you know, every result counts for the teams like that who aren't more or less assured for Of. Of a top.
- [38:25]
Max Rushden
Top eight.
- [38:26]
Barry Glendenning
What is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 24 position.
- [38:29]
Max Rushden
So like, like, I think you got needed 11 points.
- [38:31]
Barry Glendenning
Yes.
- [38:32]
Max Rushden
To sneak into the playoffs last time. And so getting 3 is. Is good because it gets you nearer 11 than naught, doesn't it? Sorry to be. Sorry to be profound again. Philippe, tell us about Union Sal Gilois.
- [38:45]
Philippe Auclair
Yeah, the. The. The great story continues. Best run club in. In Belgian football. One of the best run clubs in all of Europe, actually. Champions for the first time since the 1920s, I think last year. It must be said that PSV had a few chances. The scoreline makes it look like they had a very easy time. They didn't. PSV just had some chances. They didn't capitalize on that. And then afterwards everything went the Belgian's way. But they were again, very impressive. They're an example basically to the rest of clubs in Belgium, which is a basket case where everybody seems to be Sheffield Wednesday, basically. And they're the exception. And obviously, you know, they're part of the Brighton and Hove Albion, Tony Bloom Galaxy. And even though they have got a lot of autonomy in the way that they run things, which they do, and I'm not entirely surprised to see them doing so well, they're a growing fools. They have exactly the same system as Brighton. Every year they will lose a couple of players whom you think are absolutely indispensable players every time they replace them and they find somebody who is just as good, if not better. So it's not a surprising result, but it's actually quite a heartening one to see a club that is done, you know, that is doing properly the business is also doing properly on the pitch. One thing as well I should mention, because I hadn't even noticed, which is really silly of me, the best player for PSV Eindhoven was Reuben Van Bommel. And I thought, oh, oh, yes, that's the son of Mark Van Bommel, of.
- [40:27]
Max Rushden
Course, silly me, he doesn't play like Mark Van Bommel, does he?
- [40:30]
Philippe Auclair
No, he doesn't play by. But I like him very much. I mean, really incisive wings, finger, good technique, can certainly go past defenders and can certainly shoot. And it was one of the bright, you know, bright lights for psv. Other than that, didn't take their chances against A team that is very good at taking theirs.
- [40:51]
Max Rushden
Yeah. And actually they had some real chances. They didn't take Saibari especially, didn't they? Anyway, tonight, Chelsea got a Bayern Liverpool play Athletic psg Atalanta Indigo to Ajax. So we'll round up those on tomorrow's pod. Elsewhere, you pointed out this out in the WhatsApp group. Ticket sales from Norway's 2026 World cup qualifier against Israel will go to Medicine San Franciere, Doctors Without Borders to help it alleviate humanitarian suffering in Gaza. Norway's football association have said on Monday game on October 11th will be played against the backdrop of grave humanitarian suffering. And we are not and cannot remain indifferent to this. The head of the Norwegian Football Association, Lisa Clavenus, told reporters at a press conference. And she is one of the shining lights in world football.
- [41:34]
Philippe Auclair
Philippe, isn't she on the international front? Certainly she's been questioned at home because of what happened around the VAR debate, where she was felt to have muscled her way through a decision favorable to keeping var. But when it comes to international politics, she's pretty much done exactly what people were hoping she would do when she was elected. It's interesting, by the Norway, that the NFF, the Norwegian FA, is still taking these kind of positions. When Lisa Klavernas actually joined the executive committee of UEFA and many people thought, oh, she's now part of the. She's at the top table, she's going to be all chummy with Alexander Jefferin and. And the Norwegians are going to tone down a little bit their rebelliousness. And that doesn't seem to be the case, which is a good thing. While we're talking about this, Max, maybe it's worth mentioning, I know, going back a little bit, that there were banners as well, pro Palestinian banners in St. Mames in Bilbao, and also that Real Madrid confiscated banners and Palestinian flags at the entrance, which had been taken on mostly by Marseille, also some Real Madrid supporters. And that's Spain. And the reason I mentioned that is because on one hand you've got the NFF saying, okay, the proceeds will go to Medicinal Sans Frontieres. It's a humanitarian cause. I think nobody will have anything to say about that. But Spain is moving actually to a far more decisive position. When you see what happened in the Vuelta, in Cycling, when you see what happens with the supporters and what you see what the Prime Minister Sanchez said about as well, when he said basically Israel should be taken out of international competitions and there was also a move to take them out of Eurovision as well, you're wondering if there is some kind of shift, and I mean within football at European level, whatever you think, it's not a question of opinion here, it's a question of looking at what is happening within football, European football, where this is basically such a divisive issue and you're wondering if the shift is not happening now in which Israel is going to basically pay the price for what it is doing in Gaza and the West Bank.
- [44:03]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I think you're right. And we talked about it last week and it's something that we'll talk about again, of course. All right, that'll do for part two, Part three. We'll begin with the Carabao Cup. Hi POD fans of America. Max here. Barry's here too.
- [44:19]
Barry Glendenning
Hello.
- [44:20]
Max Rushden
Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable Paper Pro. We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the Paper tablet category. Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology. But there's something new and exciting. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move.
- [44:40]
Barry Glendenning
Remarkable. A brand name and an adjective.
- [44:43]
Max Rushden
Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to do's and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office. Like maybe a football journalist. Barry Although not like you, a proper football poll journalist. Max Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This paper tablet doesn't. It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The Remarkable Paper Pro move can keep going for up to two weeks. And if you do need to recharge, you can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes.
- [45:33]
Barry Glendenning
Barry Fantastic.
- [45:34]
Max Rushden
Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your Paper tablet today.
- [45:55]
Nicky Bandini
Foreign.
- [46:01]
Max Rushden
Part 3 of the Guardian Football Weekly. Our so in the Carabao. Get your Carabao box out. Barry. Wonder how many cobwebs are in that box. Probably won't even open for cobwebs. Brentford got past Aston Villa on penalties. Aston Villa did score their first goal of the season. Harvey Elliott got that. Crystal palace conceded a last minute equalizer against Millwall but they did beat them on penalties. Presumably now palace have knocked Millwall out of a cup, they will fill out all the forms so they can qualify for the right European competition as they didn't do last year. And Grimsby won at Hillsborough. Barry as not. I mean they beat Man United then they were off the back of getting a very lucky last minute equalizer against Cambridge at the weekend. Grimsby but a good win for them but slightly odd.
- [46:39]
Barry Glendenning
Hillsborough yeah. So Grimsby go through to the last 16 for the first time in I think nearly 25 years and they took 6,000 fans to Hillsborough for this game where there was only 3,000 Sheffield Wednesday fans because there was another boycott. Wednesday started more or less the second string side. Well I think even their first string side is kind of second string so this is probably a third string side with load of teenagers playing and they lost 1 nil. The mess is ongoing at Wednesday but congratulations to Grimsby and I. I don't really know what the current state of play is at Wednesday. I do believe that texter chap is kind of semi interested in buying the club, but I guess there's a lot.
- [47:37]
Philippe Auclair
Oh Barry is interested in having people thinking that he's interested.
- [47:41]
Barry Glendenning
Okay, right. But I can't see anyone buying it as long as Chancery holds out for a quite frankly ridiculous amount of money. Because I have said it before, I really do think Sheffield Wednesday would be a great club for someone to buy, but not if you're being completely ripped.
- [47:59]
Max Rushden
Off from the Daily Record. Under fire, Russell Martin has taken his Ibrox squad wild swimming as he bids to keep his own head above water in his fight to keep the Rangers job. He took his players for a swimming Loch Lomond and then a hike up Conic Hill as part of a day of different activities, Martin has turned to the great outdoors in a bid to try and turn his side's fortunes around. The review of this that I like the best was I think Jamie o' Hara on Sky Sports News went, this isn't bonding, this is a pain.
- [48:29]
Barry Glendenning
I mean it sounds really unpleasant and if you're taking a group of men who probably already don't think much of you and don't have much respect for you, open water swimming in a Scottish lake in September, I can't see how it's going to endear them to you in any way.
- [48:53]
Max Rushden
The thing is, like, Nikki talked about the vibes, right? If the vibes are good, the vibes are good on the pod. And we take the whole panel, you know, wild to Rutland water, you know, in December, people are like, okay, this is fun. But if we're on the floor, you know, I just can't see Barney being like, I'm up for this.
- [49:12]
Barry Glendenning
I mean, I don't think I'd be up for open wild swimming no matter how good the vibes were.
- [49:19]
Max Rushden
I. I once did. I once did the. My friends did the London triathlon, the relay day, right? And so one does the swim, one does the run, and one does the. The cycle. And it was that the, like, full triathlon. And then the swimmer dropped out a week before, and they said, max, can you swim 1500 meters? Is that so, mate? Was that the Olympics?
- [49:37]
Barry Glendenning
No, that's. That's a triathlon. That's a wuss triathlon.
- [49:40]
Max Rushden
Okay, okay. It was a mini. It was a Wustrath. That was the one I was doing. And, like, could you swim 1500 meters? I went to the pool and swam 1500 meters. I went, yes, I can. I'll do it for you. Fine. So I got to Docklands or whatever, and they handed me a wetsuit. I was like, why are you giving me one of those? I just presumed it would be in a swimming pool, right? So then I put this wetsuit on, I jumped. I had a wetsuit on. I presume the Rangers players did. I jumped into the London Docklands, and for about 10 seconds, I just thought I was going to die of sheer cold. And then I was the only one doing breaststroke. The buzzer went, you got kicked by a million people. It was a thoroughly unpleasant experience. So, yeah, I mean, when you revert to this, I think maybe this. I mean, I don't know, would be fascinating to see how they get on at the weekend. This and a hike. I'd better have a. Imagine the miserable packed lunch. Just the idea of the Rangers team all sitting there with, you know, a Mr. Juicy and, you know.
- [50:32]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, and it's probably vegan because Russell Martin's famously vegan, isn't he? I mean, just. Just take them to the pub for a day on the piss.
- [50:44]
Max Rushden
I don't know. I don't know. Ian says, good to see West Ham giving their youth a chance. Yeah. The other 21s won 51 at Milton Keynes Dons. Who was in goal? Barry?
- [50:54]
Barry Glendenning
I've got a guess. Ariola.
- [50:56]
Max Rushden
Lukas Vaviansky. Hey, Simon says. Hi guys. Long time. Listen, a big fan. I listened to you when cycling to and from work. Listen to the pod on Monday 15th September. You were discussing long throw ins and how on earth they could be replicated in training. There was even talk of building a throw in machine like a bowling machine. I'm no tactical genius or even a qualified football coach, even on championship manager, but to replicate a looping throw into the box, could you not just take a normal throw in but stand closer? I'm pretty sure you're allowed to enter beyond the white line during training. Thank you, Simon. You make a good point.
- [51:32]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. Do you know or else build a very elaborate trebuchet.
- [51:38]
Max Rushden
Yeah, yeah. No, it's slightly different, isn't it? Because the time. You've got to judge the time. I take your point, but it's slightly different. Gino says hi Max and the team. Thank you for your informative and jolly podcast. Thoroughly enjoyable. A little more Spanish and Italian content would be great. I'm a South African of Italian descent with English children and living in Spain. Don't ask. Years ago I had a vasectomy, as many of your listeners have done. However, after three tests, the sperm count was still reasonable. Turns out that my body considered I should keep reproducing so the piping reconnected itself. The odds of this happening are about 1 in 500 quite rare. Most people are apprehensive before the first vasectomy, but once you know what's going to happen, I can tell you the apprehension is huge for the second one. Always good that time. Thank you, Gino. Keep up the fantastic work. Best regards. Thank you, Gino. Thank you everyone. Thanks everyone for coming to the live show. I know I said that the other day, so I don't need to thank you all again. You've done your job, we've done ours and it doesn't really matter anyway as we established earlier in this podcast. So that'll do for today. Thanks everybody. Thank you, Nicky.
- [52:38]
Nicky Bandini
Thanks Max.
- [52:38]
Max Rushden
Thanks Philippe.
- [52:39]
Philippe Auclair
Thank you, Max.
- [52:40]
Max Rushden
Thanks Barry.
- [52:41]
Barry Glendenning
Thanks Max. I just. I don't know if any Liverpool fans were tuning into the U.S. senate yesterday, but Cash Patel, the director of the FBI, who's this Trump supporting Lick Spittle and widely perceived to be a moron who has been hugely promoted above his station. He had to answer hard questions about the manner in which he handled the hunt for the alleged killer of Charlie Kirk, but he, he sat in front of getting grilled by all these senators and he was wearing a Liverpool Football Club tie which seemed to have got people going, what? Whoa. What's going on here? So I expect Liverpool fans will not be massively impressed to see that this Trump fan is one of them. But he is a conspiracy theorist, so it kind of adds up.
- [53:41]
Max Rushden
Surely he had an Arsenal tie on, then. We're not. No, no, we're not talking about the Internet crazies this year, we've established that. Anyway, yeah, that'll do for today. We'll be back tomorrow. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. This is the Guardian.