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Football Weekly
Arsenal edge closer to title and ‘spygate’ overshadows playoffs – Football Weekly podcast
00:57:33
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Robyn Cowen and Philippe Auclair to discuss all the weekend’s football action
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- [00:00]
A
This is the Guardian.
- [00:10]
B
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
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C
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [00:22]
B
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
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C
That's right.
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D
Hei, hei.
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C
So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
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B
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [00:43]
C
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find Fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.
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E
Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible. Overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing. A SOFI personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a SOFI personal loan. Visit sofi.com stunt to learn more. Loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.
- [01:28]
A
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Blimey, the stress of it all. Callum Wilson scores another injury time goal for West Ham. The London Stadium erupts. And then Var Pablo's arm holding David Raya. Todibo holding his shirt. Rice holding Mavropanos. Trossard is holding Pablo. Imagine being an Arsenal fan. Imagine being a West Ham fan. Imagine being Darren England. Imagine being Chris Kavanagh. Perhaps it would be more galling for West Ham if Arsenal had been pushing and pulling at corners all season. And so two wins at home to Burnley and away to palace and Arsenal are champions. Meanwhile, West Ham's defeat means Forest and Leeds are safe. Let's hope Leeds went on an absolute tear up before spurs away tonight. Also today, more boos for Arne Slott. Bournemouth put a little pressure on the top five and advantage Celtic in Fitbar until injury time at the London Stadium. The biggest story of the weekend was in the bushes near Middlesbrough. We'll talk spygate 2.0. There's the rest of the playoffs. You could do a whole pod on the Rochdale Boreham Wood playoff final. There's the Women's FA cup semis. Basically too much football to fit in today. We'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Hello. Hi, Max. Welcome. Robin Cowan.
- [02:35]
F
Hi, Max.
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A
Philippe. Claire.
- [02:39]
D
Max.
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A
Ah, exact. Okay, then, let's start the London Stadium West Ham nil, Arsenal. One doesn't really tell the whole story. Martin says, why did Var get it right? And why is everyone complaining? Mafa the laugher says, the cynic in me says, arsenal have scored that goal 10 times this season. What's changed? And Ian Wright said, Chris Cavanagh after review, with the sweetest word since Martin Luther King's I have a dream as someone with a dog in the fight. Philippe, how was it for you?
- [03:11]
D
Oh, it was unbearable. It was absolutely unbearable. You know, you remember that program when they wired up, I think it was Sam Allardyce for a game, to check out what was happening to the manager's pulse during a game. I think if they had wired me up, I would basically have had the same readings. And I think if you had wired up all the Arsenal fans who were watching that game, you probably would have enough energy to keep the country going for one year if you could somehow get the electrical impulses. It was absolutely unbearable. And it was very fitting, I think, as well, because it's almost like the whole season went encapsulated in 101 minutes or whatever it was. But, yeah, it was totally unbearable. And a great case to be made for defibrillators being installed absolutely everywhere Arsenal plays, or in every home when Arsenal plays. If you're an Arsenal supporter or a West Ham supporter, I should.
- [04:04]
A
Yeah, I mean, like Barney got it quite right. Robin, you know, when he said they had. It's up for grabs now, they had Aguero, you know, drink it in. And now we've got. After review, He looked at the screen 17 times. The replay was played 17 times across two and a half minutes. And obviously there's so much riding on this decision. And I guess the official's job, Darren England, the Var and Chris Cavanaugh is to take out that all away and go, is this a foul? And did they get it right?
- [04:32]
F
Well, it was a foul, wasn't it? But there was also an awful lot going on around it. Oh, God. I mean, I'm already quite tired, Max. But this is. I mean, this is so much, I gotta say. Actually, I watched Match Today, this morning, and I thought Danny Murphy's comment about this isn't Arsenal's problem. Like, yes, maybe they've got away with some, but, you know, they got away with them and it's, you know, who cares? Really, I'm sure that Arsenal fans wouldn't. Ultimately, it's a subjective call, isn't it? And it's just another layer of subjectivity. Was it clear and obvious? That's debatable. Could there have been other decisions given? Debatable. You know, there were lots of other holding going on. I mean, yeah, ultimately the decision was. Was correct. But yeah, I can understand why fans of other teams are kind of going down the water Bouttery route as well. I'm also going to make a prediction that over the summer we will get a. An edict come down from pgmo saying this is going to stop, it's ridiculous and we're going to clamp down on it next season and it will last for about three weeks and then it will go back to how it is.
- [05:48]
A
I mean, Nuno said it's the lack of consistency. Everybody's lost a bit of what is a foul and what isn't a foul. I thought he was quite measured. Arteta said the referees had a lot of courage. I think no one would disagree. It's a foul because Ray almost has the ball in his hands and he said, you know, to make a call and change the course of one of the two teams, what a. What a responsibility. I suppose, I suppose, Barry, it's a sign of how stressful that job is as a. As an official, you know, because you, you don't have a lot of time, even if it took five minutes and, you know, whatever you do, it's going to be, you know, fury somewhere.
- [06:21]
G
Yeah. First of all, I have to applaud Arsenal's ability to just put their fans through the ring. The meat grinder over and over again. If I was a Gooner, my soul would have left my body when that Callum Wilson shot crossed the line. Arteta's comments after the game, I think he's only saying that because the decision ultimately went his way and I think if it had gone against him, he wouldn't be quite so kind. Was it a foul on Rhea? Yes, no doubt about that. But I think the issue some people have is the number of other fouls that were also being committed in the penalty area by Arsenal players, also by West Ham players went unpunished, but that one was punished. And Shea given quizzed Darren Kahn about this on Match of the Day Last
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A
night brought the referee into the studio. Barry Official out of the cupboard. It was in emergency break glass there.
- [07:28]
G
And Darren Kahn said when two incidents happen now, I would argue there was six or even seven incidents in this farce. He said when Two incidents happen. It's the one that has the material impact that will be judged. Now that's fair enough, but I be fairly confident some other former official will come out and contradict can before the day is out. So, yeah, look, there's no doubt it was a foul on Ray, but I'm not quite sure why that particular foul goes punished and the rest of them don't. And as I said, there were West Ham players also committing fouls at that corner. Like Thomas Suchek was grappling with Zubamendi. We all saw Declan Rice, rugby tackle Maverick Hanis into the back of the net. Pablo on Ray. Obviously Odegaard was wrestling with To Debo while To Debo was also fouling Reyes. You know, to go back to your original question, I do not envy any var or referee having to try to pick the bones out of that.
- [08:37]
A
It's like a sort of Caravaggio. Orgycat did make a point, Philippe, he suggested on Match of the Day that a rule comes in where no attacking player is allowed in the six yard box until the corner is taken. So that means the sort of grappling either happens outside of the six yard box or it just means the keeper has a bit of space. And I don't like when anyone ever suggests a rule change. Everyone just goes, no, you can't do it. It's terrible. I don't, I don't intrinsically hate that idea.
- [09:06]
D
No, it would become, I mean, basically it would be the equivalent of the encroachment rule on, on penalty kicks. And there is nothing really wrong apart from the monitoring of the encroachment, which would be much more complicated in the case of a corner kick, for example, than it is in the case of a penalty. There is something to be said for that. I won't be the devil's advocate, I'm going to be the angel's advocate here. I do think they got it right. And I also think that the type of foul that led to the goal being disallowed is so egregious in a way. I mean, I'd like actually try to remember if you can, because it's chaos, obviously we're trying to make sense of here. Another occasion this season where you had that type of foul committed on the goalkeeper by Arsenal or by any other club. And I've seen, yes, cases where goalkeepers have been impeded, as in they couldn't go towards the ball. This is different. He's really literally pushing his arm down as he's about to catch the ball or Punch it. That is really clear and obvious. And the fact that the on pitch referee is not saying immediately, no, no, come on, guys. There's a foul. First of all, good luck for anybody who would be, you know, the ref camp. That's about the only thing that it's the only purpose it serves when they use it. You realize this is chaos all around those guys. And also there is this thing, if I get it wrong, it will be corrected. Which has become the default behavior, I think, of quite a few referees in the Premier League. We saw that as well in the Fulham game where there were two red cards given, which were, I think completely obvious, should have been given on the pitch. It just thought, the referee thought, listen, I'm going to give a yellow card. They can always tell me if I didn't get it right. So it's a kind of insurance policy. I can understand if I were a West Ham supporter because I think in many ways this decision is of more consequence on West Ham than it is on Arsenal losing out on the title, which, by the way, Arsenal wouldn't have lost out on the title. Manchester City still has to go to Bournemouth, which is bloody hell, very hard indeed. And anything could happen. But in the case of West Ham, I mean, that's a sickener. That's an absolute sickener. So I think you can feel sympathy for everybody involved and I think perhaps we should move back a little bit and say the right decision was taken. It was a foul. It was the most consequential foul of them all in the box at the time the right decision was given. But the consequences are absolutely huge. And this is the problem. The problem becomes it's not the game, it's not even the incident. The problem is about the consequences of using various in those particular situations and which goes way beyond even the title or the relegation is the fact that obviously the system doesn't quite work as it should work and that there is a real problem in particular with free kicks, deadbol situations, basically, which is why at least try. I think they have tried out actually the encroachment rule in a couple of tournaments and it worked out okay. Whether it would work okay in a game which has got so much, again, so many consequences hanging onto it, I don't know, but probably worth a try, because the fact that we're all talking about it and we cannot not talk about it is an indication that there's something here which is deeply wrong because we should be talking about. There were plenty of other things to talk about in this game. Be it about West Ham being about Arsenal, which are admirable things, or not so admirable things, but they go in the background and that in itself is bad.
- [12:47]
A
Yeah. I mean, Arsenal have scored 27 goals from set pieces. I mean, I, I pity the person probably at Athletic who has to watch all of those and find all the fouls to do a big piece about that. I mean, the drama is there. I mean, I, I, I suspect we all put Var in the bin, Robin, but it is still amazingly dramatic. The theater of that is dramatic. I'm not saying I like it because I don't like various. I don't know what the question is really, apart from I just found the whole thing sort of slightly overwhelming. And as a Tottenham fan, I was sort of slightly conflicted because I was like, maybe a point. Maybe that's okay. Tom could still survive and Arsenal, you know, mess it up. And that's funny, but I don't know, it was just, it was just, as you said, it was sort of exhausting, but, but absolutely thrilling.
- [13:32]
F
Yeah, you're right. I think it is quite just. As someone who's got, you know, got no skin in this game at all, the sort of ceremony of the, of the Var has kind of added something, you know, usually to piss people off and especially those in the stadium. It's not really worked in that sense. And you're right, the after review, it's all. I don't think that's necessary. I think if they, if they had the voice of the guy who does the movie voiceovers, maybe, but it's always very, they always sound so timid and like they don't want to be doing this and be. To be heard in the stadium. I don't think that adds much to it. But, yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's here to stay. It's not gonna, it's not gonna go anywhere, is it? I just feel like I was very much for it when it came in. I'm not sure it's worked. But you got to say, as Philippe said, it came to the right decision, but it's just, it is just tedious. And we, and I feel like, yeah, it's more the, the debate and the, the C word. Consistency keeps coming up. It's like you just can't have that. It's not possible. You can't have that. You want it within a game. Yes, within 90 minutes. You'd like consistency, but you just can't have it, you know, in, in every single match in the Premier League, maybe
- [14:43]
A
it's a kind of cumulative thing where they have to stop the play and go, look, if West Ham are committing four fouls and Arsenal three, then West Ham get the benefit. So you're looking at all these different.
- [14:52]
H
There.
- [14:53]
A
Two hours later, you get the. The result.
- [14:55]
G
I was wondering, like, just for the sake of argument, could he have done after review and chalked off the goal and then said after further review and awarded West Ham a penalty, say, for one of the blocking, shoving, dragging incidents? I don't know is the answer. I'm just putting it out there.
- [15:19]
A
It would have been amazing theater, wouldn't it? I mean, and also just to. Just a feel for Callum Wilson because he strikes that ball so brilliantly and he's been sort of. He has scored a couple of really crucial goals for West Ham despite playing about well.
- [15:31]
G
I mean, hats off to Gabrielle as well, because it was his clock on another good Callum Wilson shot that led to the corner that has got everyone talking.
- [15:41]
F
Well, and. And David Ryer as well. You know, David Rya, he's basically. I, I know it's been a team effort, but I don't think Arsenal win the title without him, honestly. He's been absolutely sensational. He made, he made that, say for Matthias Fernandez, who was through. And that's one of several that he's made over the season, like really saves that you really possibly. You wouldn't expect keepers to make. He's been absolutely sensational.
- [16:07]
A
Yeah. And actually Fernandez has so much goal over there, Philippe, to put it in. And it is such a crucial few minutes, isn't it? Because he misses and then Trossard scores. But Raya does so well there to kind of not. I don't know, because it's sort of like. It's counterintuitive to not commit yourself because there's so much goal and like, like, you know, but he does so well to. To sort of put doubt in Fernandez's mind.
- [16:29]
D
And the thing is that the fact that he's. You can see it's quite extraordinary because he's rooted to the spot. And usually when a keeper is rooted to the spot, it means that he's thinking, oh, shit, I don't stand a chance here. And so. And he tenses up. He doesn't. He's super relaxed, he doesn't move. And in fact, you can almost feel Matthias Fernandes thinking, well, the keeper's going to do something. The keeper's going to do something. By the time he realizes, shit, I'd better shoot, is too close and he's got I mean, a fantastic reaction. I mean, Robin, I couldn't agree more with you. I think he's been. He's the player of the season for me for Arsenal, ahead of Declan Rice or Gabriel. He's the reason his golden gloves for the third season in a row, which is insane. He's only 6 foot 1, but he's superb in the air as well and on his line. His distribution is the best that I've seen this season. He's the best keeper in England, he's the best keeper in Europe and for me there's absolutely no doubt about that whatsoever. And the fact that he doesn't play for Spain is one of the biggest mysteries in contemporary football. Because, okay, he's got. There's some other decent ones, but he's absolutely extraordinary and his save was absolutely phenomenal. Not just that save, but as well on the other corner kicks, the way he's able. I mean, despite being six foot one, being able to punch the ball as he does every single time, like 30 yards out, I mean, this guy's at the absolute top of his profession.
- [18:01]
A
I certainly wasn't one saying I don't think he's as good as Aaron Ramsdale about four years ago, but you know, we all make mistakes. Okay then, Barry, Arsenal have 79 points from 36, man, City have 74 from 35. But does that Arsenal performance, I mean, they could have scored a lot in the first 20 minutes, but then they did. I don't know if Arteta made a mistake taking Rice out of midfield and then corrected it, put him back in and Odegaard made a big, big difference coming on. But did you see enough kind of there to think actually it's not totally done. Like there'll be a little bit of them going, oh, Burnley played okay at the weekend. You know, palace might be good. I don't know.
- [18:38]
G
No, I thought it was done before this game and I certainly think it is now. I thought Arsenal would win a lot more comfortably than they did yesterday, but I can't see them messing it up.
- [18:54]
D
Feel the same, Philippe, if I'm trying to be neutral, if I try to bring my heartbeat down to a manageable level, if I put on my fair, objective observers suit on. Yes, it's done. I think so on paper it's done. If I go back and my soul goes back into my body, as Barry said, I'm still. I think there's going to be more pain because you never know because you could, for example, a red card in the seventh minute. A team that's Already relegated and starts playing really well as we've seen Wolves, for example do this year when honestly they didn't have a chance in hell and suddenly they get a few fantastic performances. Anything is possible. I think Villa will completely fold up against Man City in the last game. I don't think there's any chance they will do anything. And for me it will all depend on that Game at Bournemouth for Manchester City, which is an incredibly difficult game against one of the informed teams of the season. But on one hand, yes, I mean they really are in the driving seat and Manchester City has receded from the mirror. But it ain't on before it is done. You can still do it by Oliver Cousin. It's never too late to do by Oliver Kusen.
- [20:14]
A
Yeah. Meanwhile, at the bottom, that result means Robin, that Leeds and Forest are definitely safe. So it is a two horse race. West Ham have 36 points from 36 games. Tottenham have 37 points from 35 games. So as I've said, hopefully Leeds went and got absolutely shit faced last night. You know, Calvert Lewin just said, come on boys, we're safe. Who cares about Tottenham away? Opta only has has West Ham a 12 chance of survival. I obviously, I don't think it's done. But do you as a more objective viewer think okay, it's done?
- [20:47]
F
I wouldn't say it's done but I think that's probably about, probably accurate. Just in terms of spurs just look more confident. They look like they're playing with a bit more clarity under Deserby. Just the fact that they're not in the relegation zone now is a big thing. It would take like another collapse from Spurs, I think, which is. I'm kind of a bit, you know, again I have no, no allegiance to either of these, these sides but I do think it's a bit sad. So I do think Nuno really did. He gave them a punches chance, didn't he? West Ham United and they've been slightly unlucky but then they've, they've turned in a couple of not great performances just for the international breaker. Did they game against Aston Villa where they weren't very good and then just not clinical enough against Brentford, you know, big defeat there. So yeah, it looks like there will be, it's going to be West Ham but it's really fascinating tonight because yes, Leeds might be hungover but that is going to be a buoyant stadium, isn't it? And they can play with a bit of freedom and whether that means that they're going to Try some weird stuff and that will let spurs in or they'll just be like free flowing and absolutely batter Spurs. It's just going to be interesting to see how they approach it.
- [22:00]
A
Terrifying. That says he beat Brentford 30 on, on Saturday, moving them two points behind Arsenal. Until the West Ham game. They didn't score until the hour. Mark Barry, we don't need to do a whole lot on this, but I, I wonder what your take on it was.
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G
God, it seems like so long ago now. Yeah, they again like Arsenal against West Ham. I thought they made heavy ish weather of it and they looked a bit nervy until Daku scored what is becoming his signature goal now again. And as soon as that pearled into the top corner, that was it. There was never any danger of them not winning and they, they went on to, to score two more. So it wasn't a brilliant City performance but they, they did enough and, and that goal from Docu clearly settled their nerves and, and yeah, then they rolled their sleeves up.
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A
Yeah. Pep said if you want to become a better player, you have to win games for yourself. It's not enough to make crosses for other ones. You have to goals Everton. The goal for three. Three was the right foot. The first goal was the left. He made an incredible step in that sense to say, I'm Jeremy Doku, I'm gonna win games. Big players always have that mentality. Yeah.
- [23:15]
F
Oh, just on. There was a couple of issues that Arsenal fans I think would have, you know, Bernardo Silva, the sort of toddler sort of hitting the leg of Nathan Collins, like, like when I tell my son he can't have ice cream at 9 in the morning. That was a bit like that. The sort of swipe at the leg and. I don't know. I don't know. I mean if he got sent up for that, I feel a bit. Maybe just a timeout would have been sufficient.
- [23:36]
A
Yeah, the naughty step.
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F
And there was also a slight penalty maybe, maybe not, you know, but yeah, a deserved win. But yeah, I think Barry's right. They weren't very convincing until that Docu goal.
- [23:46]
A
Yeah, someone made a good point on, on social media that, you know, perhaps Bernardo Silver is just so much smaller than Nathan Collins that, that he has to really deliver a like an almighty blow for it to count as, as some kind of p. Anyway, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll begin at Anfields.
- [24:09]
I
What makes a leader worth following?
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J
What should you really care about in your job? As technology is changing so quickly, is
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I
it just gonna be about machines talking to other machines. I mean, should you quit your job and start something on your own, what would that take?
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J
What does success and risk look like when we're all at the starting gate together?
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I
These are the questions we answer each week on Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler.
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J
Join us each week and subscribe at your favorite podcast platform and YouTube.
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We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together.
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- [25:23]
A
Welcome to Part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So the top of the table below the top two Man United 65 from 36 there in the Champions League for sure Liverpool have 59 from 36 as do Villa Bournemouth 55, then Brighton 53, Brentford 51, Chelsea 49 Liverpool won Chelsea one and Barry boos for Anna slot throughout this game at no, I mean not through the whole game but you know at key moments.
- [25:46]
G
Yeah he was booed when he took off Rio and Gamora and said afterwards that he knew that was going to happen but that that in Gomorrah had indicated to him that he had cramp and wasn't able to continue. And then there were boos at the end which I think were probably deserved and booze at Anfield seem less pantomime ish than say booze elsewhere. So it's worrying for Slot and I they weren't good. I mean they started well and they scored, went went ahead through that that lovely Ryan Gravenberg strike, then Enzo Fernandez slash Wesley Fafana equalized for Chelsea and after that it was all Chelsea and this is not a good Chelsea team. It's very disjointed. They come into the game on the back of six consecutive defeats and they took over from there and I think they were probably a little unlucky not to win the game. Each team had a goal correctly disallowed for for offside in the second half. But it was an interesting game between two big teams whose supporters are both very dissatisfied with how things are going at their respective clubs and Callum McFarlane will have emerged from the game with a lot more credit than are in a slot. Chelsea were missing five wingers so they played Cucarella in a more advanced role as a kind of wing back. He was brilliant throughout because they didn't have much width. The midfield was quite congested and Ernest admitted afterwards, oh, we just. We couldn't figure out how to play through them and it's like well, I don't know. That's kind of your job to figure it out.
- [27:31]
A
God, Chelsea missing five wingers. I presume they'd have like 20 more. I saw there were rumored to be in for Ethan Wanrieri and you thought they can't be going for. Just stop buying attacking wide players. Just please young one stop. Stop doing it now Robin. I suggested to Barry yesterday that Arna stop was it felt a bit like the heir of Keir Starmer. Like you know, not a terrible bloke, not all his fault but it's just people just aren't having it, you know, they're not having him and I feel that with Slot a bit, they're just not having him. Barry did point out that he thinks slot's done a better job than Starmer. Someone texted to say I think Klopp left Liverpool in a slightly better state than the Tories left the country in but. But the point remains that I just not sure the Liverpool fans are really. They're just not feeling it at all, are they?
- [28:15]
F
Well, as a BBC employee I of course can't comment on any of that sort of stuff. But that's a, that's a great, great little conversation that you guys had on talksport. Yeah, it's an interesting one in terms of what do they do because clearly I think it sounds like the board want to keep him for a number of reasons, you know, financial and just, you know, a bit of consistency and to give him a bit more of a chance. But yeah, it's it. The tide has turned, doesn't it? As Barry was alluding to. There were boos. You know there's one thing kind of social media dissent but it's when the fans inside the stadium are turning. That's kind of an indication. But how much should you listen to supporters, you know, to make a decision? Difficult, isn't it? And you know he did deliver them the title. We've gone through many of the, the issues that have that have arisen this season. He possibly hasn't helped himself with comments like Barry alluded to there you about, you know. Oh, we, you know, we did. We find this difficult when it's like, well yeah, you need to find a solution. So I feel a bit sorry for the guy but it feels like if. If he is there next season he probably won't be there long because if they start badly then yeah, it's really that it'll just be toxic, won't it? So yeah, it's just be interesting what the decision might be.
- [29:30]
D
There's one thing that surprised me that game, which by the way was of very, very poor quality. I thought certainly not the kind of technical level we would expect from two sides like that. It's the fact that Liverpool haven't qualified for the Champions League yet. You look at what they've got to do and did you see any of the urgency that you would expect from the players on the pitch when you know that you've got a place in the top five for the Champions League? Which is definitely not done. If you look at what they've got left, especially they're playing Villa, Villa and Bournemouth can overtake them. And did you feel any urgency? None. Absolutely zero and zero intensity. And I'm a little bit. I mean it comes to slot at Liverpool. I remember what we were all talking about last year. We were saying he's done the impossible thing which is to take over a team which is not really his and turn it into a champion by becoming more pragmatic, by showing a Liverpool that is versatile, that can attack, that can defend, that is balanced and so forth. And then it's totally unraveled this season. Totally unraveled. It's gone down. And because of his demeanor, I actually think that the man has behaved with great amount of dignity and frankness throughout the year. They've had a rotten time with so many things, particularly with injuries. And I think maybe we have got to take that into consideration. And maybe that's why the Liverpool board is thinking, well, hold on a minute. Not everything has gone according to plan this season. And there have been loads of problems. There was the Salah problem, there's the Isaac problem, there's the Ekitike problem. There's loads and loads of problems. And also there was a Margue problem as well, which is the fact that they didn't land the player that perhaps needed the most. So you put all that together and maybe you can be a little bit more philosophical about it. But again, the lack of intensity really surprised me when I think there is a lot. This is not a game that is of no importance. It's not an end of the season. Well, we've got, we've qualified for Europe already so foot off the gas, blah, blah, blah. It was not one of those. And that is worrying.
- [31:51]
A
I think Liverpool have got Villa then and Brentford left to play. Villa have Liverpool and City to play and Bournemouth have City and Forest to play. I mean it would take some. It would be quite extraordinary, Robin, if Bournemouth managed to get into the top five given their four points behind with two games to go. But I guess it's not inconceivable, not at all.
- [32:10]
F
Because they're on this incredible run, aren't they? You know, they're, they're just, they can't be beaten at the moment and, and it's just again it's, you know, the coach has said he's leaving and Donier alone and nothing's happened. You know, they're still performing to it to a really great level. I think it, again, it just shows. It's just a really well run club. I do wonder about his decision to leave, you know, especially if they get into the Champions League. And yeah, he's thinking, I'm not going to be taking them. I mean, if we're going to go on to Fulham against Bournemouth, I mean they were.
- [32:43]
A
It's almost like you've, it's almost like you've hosted this podcast before.
- [32:47]
F
It could have gone either way, couldn't it? It was a kind of narrow, it was a narrow win for them. Two red cards. As Philippe alluded to earlier. Sort of both of them possibly should have been given in the first instance. I know some of the, I know some people saying Anderson might have been a bit unlucky, but I think when you see it back.
- [33:03]
A
What's he doing? Yeah, 10 against 11. It's insane. Challenges.
- [33:07]
F
Yeah.
- [33:08]
H
Yeah.
- [33:08]
F
No, madness. Sort of off the floor. And that was after Ryan Christie. It was great. They had a little shot of Steve Clark who always looks pretty annoyed. He was just like, yeah, don't be doing that. That, don't be doing that. Ryan. Ryan scored the goal for Bournemouth. It looked like Bert Leto possibly should have saved it, but maybe took a nick on its way through and yeah, it's just, it's just, yeah, again, Bournemouth just really well run. As I say, Iriola, they've already got a new guy in place but I just wonder if they get into the Champions League if he'll start to sort of look a bit regretful. I'm not sure.
- [33:42]
A
Yeah. Can he say to Marco, Rosa, actually mate, I'm not, you know, like with you. The house. The house falls through. They've just fallen. It's just falling through. And he's like, what I thought it was. No, I mean, look, Villa, you know, Villa are in the Europa League final. Obviously that, that they hammered Forest on Thursday night after we last recorded, which is a massive result for them. And they play Freiburg and they'll be big favorites Barry for that. But they couldn't beat Burnley who did play with a bit of freedom. I was thinking ahead to the Arsenal game. So it'd be really interesting to see what Villa do in these last two games, of course, because the Europa League finalist sandwiched between Liverpool at home and then man City away.
- [34:15]
G
Yeah, I mean there are two tough games. Unai Emery, I'd imagine he was upset with the result against Burnley, but he wasn't upset by the performance. Most of the players who start or played against Forest on Thursday featured here as well and they weren't terrible. And Burnley I think were much better than everyone expected. Burnley did miss a couple of good chances. Ian Fleming missed two. He probably should have scored before he did score. And not a catastrophic result for Villa. But yeah, Liverpool home, City away, they're, they're tricky enough. But I guess what do they need from that? 2 points? 3? It's hard to know if I could
- [35:00]
A
do the math quickly. I mean the most a Bournemouth can get is 58.61. So one win will do it for them.
- [35:06]
F
It just feels like they've chucked in the Premier League Villa a little bit.
- [35:10]
A
A little bit. But, but you know, Emery knows what he's doing and actually that performance was brilliant against Forest, wasn't it Robin? You know, and John McGinn who's so crucial to them, like his two goals were both brilliant in this game.
- [35:19]
F
I thought, oh man, I mean, I think he might be. I mean it's kind of recency bias. He might be one of the most important players Villa have had. He's just, you know, he signed from, from Hibs in 2018 when they were in the championship and he's now like he's captain. He's been there for ages and he's so important. When he's not there, they just don't perform. They don't function as well. What a player. And yeah it was, it was one of those games where Forest just were powerless, weren't they to. To prevent what was happening to them. I just think, and I know an eye. Emery is, you know, a specialist in winning this tournament, but it's a one off game. They will be Favorites against Freiburg. I just feel like they do need to secure that, that Champions League in the Premier League and they all look just like they drop their level a bit and they're sort of waiting for this final and yeah, Liverpool at home and then it's the final and then it's away to Man City. So yeah, and also a bit like
- [36:13]
A
Arsenal, the Champions League if, if Villa go into that game with Champions League confirmed, it changes how they play it. Whereas if Arsenal have won the Premier League and they go in the Champions League final, it's a totally different vibe to, you know, to, to what happens if they don't win it from here. Brighton beat Wolves 3 nil. Brighton are on a very good run, aren't they? Herzler was under pressure at some point earlier in the season. They're in seventh, two points behind Bournemouth. Yes. Philippe.
- [36:36]
D
Yeah, no, I wanted to make a point of that because I was remembering, oh, all this. Fabian Hertzler is under pressure, is criticized. I was wondering, well, when was that? And that was in February. That was like yesterday when they had a series. They only won one game out of 13 between 30th November 2025 and 21st February of 2026. And at the time people were saying that he was running out of time and was under pressure for his job. And I think many people are feeling a bit silly now, but one win out of 13 and to be in the position they are now, obviously that's actually a great quality for a manager, is to be able to actually write the ship as he did and, and, and did it with a, well, conviction and playing some rather lovely football.
- [37:29]
G
He's just signed a new three year deal.
- [37:31]
D
Yeah.
- [37:32]
G
To keep him there till 2029.
- [37:36]
A
So by the end of that deal he'll be 18 years old, which is good, isn't it? Sorry, Robert.
- [37:39]
F
Wolves had kickoff and they also had a throw in and they still conceded after 35 seconds, which is pretty impressive.
- [37:46]
D
Edwards used the word to describe the beginning of the game, which I never heard a manager. He didn't say it was bad or terrible. He said it was despicable. You don't hear that very often. A despicable start to the game.
- [38:02]
A
Right, that'll do for part two, Part three. We'll rattle through the Premier League and then we'll do Fitbar Corner, efl, Women's FA Cup Semi finals and more.
- [38:11]
K
I'm Kai Wright.
- [38:12]
L
I'm Carter Sherman and we are here
- [38:14]
K
to tell you about our new show which is, is rooted in this feeling that at least I have. I know you have, where, you know, it's kind of like when you wake up in the morning and you pick up your phone and you're just hit in the face with a fire hose of news, right?
- [38:29]
L
Like there's war, there's authoritarianism. Our planet is burning. I could go on and on and
- [38:35]
A
on and on and on and on.
- [38:36]
K
But like, we're trying to figure out how to manage it, right? Like, how do you manage it?
- [38:40]
L
I manage it by leaning in and trying to learn more and trying to figure out, okay, how can I be smarter about this particular topic and who can I talk to that's going to make me feel better about it?
- [38:51]
K
And who can tell me who's responsible for the mess that I'm reading about? So that's our mission. That's the show.
- [38:57]
L
Welcome to Statesite with Kai and Carter. We're a new show from the Guardian.
- [39:01]
K
We're talking to big thinkers and the best journalists just trying to understand the world through smart conversation and honest reporting.
- [39:07]
L
We don't have business billionaires telling us what to say.
- [39:09]
K
Stateside with Kyan Carter will come out three times a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday starting May 13th.
- [39:15]
L
Follow on Apple Podcasts or catch us wherever you watch or listen.
- [39:25]
I
What makes a leader worth following?
- [39:27]
J
What should you really care about in your job? As technology is changing so quickly, is
- [39:32]
I
it just gonna be about machines talking to other machines? I mean, should you quit your job and start something on your own, what would that take?
- [39:38]
J
What does success and risk look like when we're all at the starting gate together?
- [39:43]
I
These are the questions we answer each week on Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler.
- [39:47]
J
Join us each week and subscribe at your favorite podcast platform and YouTube.
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I
We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together.
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M
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- [41:23]
A
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. It's a Palace 2, Everton 2 in a game that doesn't mean a whole lot. Everton without a win in five or so so they're it. They've slipped out of the chance to get into the Champions League. Could still get Europe. It was a really good game Barry. This wasn't it and on a different day maybe we give it more than the 30 seconds I'm allotting to you.
- [41:41]
G
Yes, it was a good game. James Tarkowski scored a goal that wasn't with his head which is probably a quite rare occurrence. Thomas Tuchel was there to watch probably two of England's goalkeepers. I would say Jordan Pickford was the more impressive of the two. Yeah if Illiman and Jai's international manager was present he will be concerned by the number of chances Illiman is missing at the moment. He could have had three or four in Everton's last game and he should have scored here as well. One or two I think. Oh Adam Orton obviously will have caught Tuchel's eye. He sent a long range effort fizzing narrowly wide of the the upright. I would say a draw was probably the fair oh sorry. And Mr. Betto who I have criticized in the past, he has hit a rich vein of form. I still think Everton are going to need be in the market for the striker next season but Beto and Tierno Berry have both improved as the season have progressed but still not sure David Moyes quite fancies either of them.
- [42:51]
A
Palace are into the Conference League final as we expected. They beat shakhtar donex 21 on Thursday night so they played Ray of our Carno on 27 May and Sid saying them getting to a European final is the greatest thing of all time and he's on the pod tomorrow so we will talk to him about their journey. Forester with Newcastle it means they're safe Elliot Anderson scoring late on against his former club. Two lovely goals actually in this game, Philippe, I thought.
- [43:15]
D
Yeah, well, particularly the Anderson goal was. Was remarkable, especially considering the state he was in at the time. Because I've never seen a player celebrating by cramping in both legs as he did, obviously was the end of the end. At the end of the. Of his tether and. No, an. Absolutely. Remark 1. Another example of why he probably won't be with that club next season, because he's going to be snapped up, isn't he?
- [43:40]
G
It's probably worth noting he. He buried his mum on. I think it was Thursday or Friday as well. Or would it be Friday? I think so, yeah. Not. He's. He's showed a tremendous amount of character in the last few weeks.
- [43:55]
A
Yeah. You saw it with his celebration. He was. Yeah. You know, we send our love to him, of course. Sunderland nil. Manchester United nil. Philippe, you wanted to word on Bruno Fernandes winning Football Writers Footballer of the Year. Did he get your vote?
- [44:08]
D
No, no, because I hesitated between Declan Rice and David Raya. I wouldn't say that. It's not a scandal because he's been absolutely fantastic in a team that has been far from fantastic from the beginning of the season. It's an individual award, so you can understand that. But I think because there's been quite a lot of controversy about it and a bit silly controversy, I must say, one of the problems of those awards is the fact that it's the voting system. When you vote for one person and you've got a team like Arsenal in which you've got not one outstanding player, but you've got three or four who are going to divide the vote, it's obviously going to favour the players who are quite simply heads and shoulders over everybody else. So as Bruno Fernandes is with Manchester United, who are back in the Champions League, and if they are back in the Champions League, it's not just because of Michael Carrick, it's especially because of this man, Bruno Fernandes. So it's not a scandal. But I didn't vote for him.
- [45:08]
A
That's fine. Also not a scandal.
- [45:11]
G
I do wonder why most of the outrage over the Football Writers Association Award seems to be generated by people who have little or no time for any sort of football writers. So I'm not sure why they're that bothered by what the football writers saying. I'm not a member of the Football Writers association, so I didn't vote for anyone, but I could kind of see. I think Philippe has Explained adequately why it wasn't ridiculous that Bruno Fernandez got it.
- [45:43]
A
It's almost like individual awards aren't really the point of football, isn't it? But anyway, to Scotland then. So on Saturday Hearts went to Motherwell, which is not an easy game. They were one nil down. They drew one a piece but they couldn't get a win. And then Celtic plate Rangers. On Sunday afternoon, Rangers took the lead and then Celtic eventually won it three one including Barry. An absolutely amazing overhead kick from days in Maeda. And so with two games to go, Hearts have 77 and Celtic have 76 and they have to play each other on the final day of the season.
- [46:16]
G
Yeah, it's great, isn't it? I think everyone, with a few notable exceptions once Hearts to win it. Everyone wants a final day showdown. I believe Celtic are now favorites to win the title. I hope they don't. I have no. I've no beef with Celtic at all. I just love to see Hearts. We know. I want. I want to see you and Murray happy. I don't think I've ever seen that before.
- [46:43]
A
It was like a different person on the pod the last week.
- [46:46]
G
I want to see what it's like. Happy with worry.
- [46:50]
A
We'll go into detail on that. But we must talk about Spygate. So look, Borough and Southampton drew nil nil before that hole drew nil nil with Mil Wall. So the second legs tonight and tomorrow, all to play for. But the EFL has charged Southampton with spying on Middlesbrough. A Southampton performance analyst is alleged to have recorded Middlesbrough training and taking pictures of tactics. On Thursday morning he was caught in the bushes or he was chanced upon by one of the Middlesbrough coaching staff. He ran away, ran into a a little house and changed into a separate outfit. He had. The EFL released a statement saying that Southampton has been charged with a breach of EFL regulations. Then other clubs since that have shared with the Guardian their surprise at the ease with which Southampton adapted to supposedly unexpected team shapes and appeared to second guess set piece routines during an unbeaten run of 19 games towards the end of the season. So yes, Tonda Eckhart, you saw this idea of. I mean there's so many parts to this Robin, which are, you know, it is cheating but it's also incredibly funny. You know Southampton players like constantly playing matches and going how did he know that? Like how did he possibly know Birmingham were going to do this? How do you know that, Rex? How did he know that Sheffield United were going to do this? And then you've obviously got just a Man in the bushes, like. And then Southampton saying of which I don't know if they're sticking to this for now is he was a lone wolf. Like, which what? At Southampton training, someone went, anyway, anyone know where? Alan. Where's Alan gone? And they're like, he's just thinking, I'm doing. Oh, they'll be super proud of me. Anyway, it's. It is hilarious.
- [48:22]
H
It's very.
- [48:22]
G
It's very Ted Lasso. You can imagine Nick Muhammad's character, yeah, totally could be hiding in a bush with surveillance equipment, essentially.
- [48:33]
F
Football is a soap opera, right? This is why we all love football. And this is a repeat storyline, isn't it? This is bringing Dirty Den back, right? So they've run out of ideas. Football. The only thing, the only big twist left is that it's actually Marcelo Bielsa. For some reason he's doing it. Don't know why, just in his spare time, you know, they're bringing back Carol Bishop. It is. It's just. You're right, Max, it's. It's cheating. It's also so funny and just feed it to my veins. I just love all this stuff. And yes, maybe they've got an advantage, but Borough had. Barra had 21 shots in this game and this has been the story of their season that they. They're just a bit wasteful and I'm not sure how much spying would have, you know, prevented that. Maybe they know exactly where they're going to shoot and they need to be in the right position. But, but, but, yeah, it's. It's. Obviously, you know, Middlesbrough is going to take this very seriously, but yeah, it's. It's great stuff, isn't it? It's great stuff for us neutrals.
- [49:37]
D
What is the punishment for spying in football? Is he going to be expelled?
- [49:44]
A
When Bielsa did it, the Leeds Derby Playoff, there was no precedent and there was nothing in the rules, I think, because they just never thought anyone would be bothered to go to someone's training ground with some binoculars killers. And then obviously Bielsa just said, yeah, of course, you know, why wouldn't I do it? Which is different to how Southampton have reacted. And he got a 200,000pound fine, or Leeds did and he paid it himself. But since then, the punishment has been brought in and the. The interesting thing is, like, you know, Borough boss Kim Helberg argues that a fine would be insufficient, you know, because you get to the Premier league, it's what, £200 million now? And so what do they do? Like like it's egregious enough, Barry, that they, if they're found guilty, I don't think they could have complaints for being thrown out. However funny it is. It's also cheating like, like they could find that out. Someone suggested to us yesterday that Middlesworth should have a penalty for the first kick of the second leg, which I think would be amazing.
- [50:37]
G
I don't think they could have any complaints about being slung out. They obviously would complain but I think those complaints would be spurious. But then there's also the case that Chelsea have been caught cheating on a mass scale. They got a fine. Manchester City are accused of cheating on a industrial level across over several years. We don't know yet what's going to happen to them. Is what is a man standing in a bush with a pair of binoculars more or less serious than the other kind of, you know, financial chicanery and doohickery? Probably not, but I totally get Tim Hellberg's anger and I thought Tond Eckhart, his manner of dealing with it in his post match press conference which was basically to refuse to answer questions was poor. He was probably acting on instructions from his, his overlords. So. But I definitely think there's a case for them to be slung out of the playoffs and just for Middlesbrough to get, get the spot in the final and if it turns out that this isn't a one off event then absolutely throw the book at them.
- [51:52]
D
Wasn't that the case that it happened. Something similar happened in Formula one and with spying as well and that was taken very seriously and in fact, yes, I mean I would like. My memory tells me, my very bad memory tells me that the team that was responsible for that, that actually was deducted points and I have to say that if it is proven and if they've done it on the regular regularly as well throughout the season, I, I, I, I agree with Barry. It's really funny and it's not funny at all at the same time when you know what depends, you know what hangs on, on that particular game.
- [52:29]
A
So yeah, with Formula one, what does. I'm just reporting back and it's, it's true. McLaren cars go really fast. Is that what, is that what the spying was? I've come back and the Brabants are going really quickly. Guys place. We've got to watch it.
- [52:42]
G
No, it would all be car design and.
- [52:44]
A
No, I know I was being facetious. I was being facetious about. It was a joke. It didn't last. Sorry, you can't, you can't win them all. You can't win them all. That's okay.
- [52:53]
H
Yeah.
- [52:53]
A
No, and I also, it says reputation for tons of record. If it turns out that he's basically just a spy, he's not actually a football manager at all.
- [53:01]
F
Like, he's done a really good job of disguising himself as a football manager.
- [53:08]
G
He's Jackson Lamb. It's just one dirty trick after another,
- [53:13]
A
just sitting there farting away, you know, in his office, stuck in Southampton. Yeah, I mean, it's an extraordinary story. We did suggest maybe, you know, the. When it broke on Saturday and we're on the radio, we're like, maybe they should all, like, south. He should dress as Colombo or Ms. Marple or Magnum or, you know, who. Not a detective actually needs to be a spy. Of course, we were trying to think of someone who was. It wasn't James Bond. But I suppose another interesting point that we donate is how high up does it go? Is it a lone wolf? Seems unlikely. Is it from the manager? Like, does it. How many people up the chain know? Because Kim Helberg actually spoke really well, Barry, I thought when he, he said, look, it's not the players and it's certainly not the fans. It's a bit like you don't control who owns your club. You certainly don't control who goes spying on behalf of your club, do you?
- [53:57]
G
The lone wolf is clearly imparting his information to somebody else. Is it getting the information and what are they doing with it?
- [54:09]
A
It's on the record going, don't tell me, don't tell me, don't tell me this. Anyway.
- [54:14]
F
Well, also, they have the perception if they go up, if they, if they go up and they've just been fined, people are gonna, the perception is gonna be like, well, you didn't deserve promotion.
- [54:23]
A
That's true. But then I suppose if they do go up, then what happens? You just. Then you have to, like, like not only do you hire like, you know, performance analysts, you have to hire like your own spies.
- [54:35]
F
Right.
- [54:35]
A
You know, like every Premier League club needs to. That have like. Yeah, like, like former MI5 agents who are just checking that some student at
- [54:44]
G
Cambridge would get a tap on the shoulder from Matt Letisier or Jason Dodge
- [54:52]
D
and Rupert Low while we're at it.
- [54:56]
A
Yeah. Oh, God. Anyway, that was the championship. We will see what happens with that. Of course they, they need to expedite the process because it's normally a 14 day process, but obviously that feels a bit too long to work out what to do with this in League 1. Stephen H. Neil, Stockport. One injury time winner for Ben Osborne. It's a very funny goal if you haven't seen it. It's not funny for Stevenage, but they're center back trips on the ball twice different parts of the game. A Stockport player falls over so all the Stevenage fans cheer and then the Stevenage defenders trips over and then Ben Osmond just puts it in. Bolton beat Bradford one nil. Could have been two at least, but they have an advantage in League two. Salford one two one at Grimsby and Chesterfield missed a penalty and lost one nil at home to Knott's County. To the playoff final at Wembley for the National League. Rochdale, if you remember, were second on 160, 160 points. Second on that 106 points. And then they had that ridiculous final day against York. They had a playoff final against Boreham woods.
- [55:55]
G
Good.
- [55:55]
A
They were two nil down, equalized in the 97th minute. I think it was the same guy who scored the header against York who scored in the 97th minute. Rochdale didn't invade the pitch, which is probably lucky. And then they won on penalties. But I don't know if you've seen the highlights, anyone.
- [56:10]
G
It was, yeah.
- [56:11]
A
Ah, it was amazing, Barry.
- [56:13]
G
Yeah, well, it's like you say, a 97th minute equalizer. Dizzy Rua nodded home across sparked jubilation obviously among the Rochdale fans. They had a chance to win it an extra time, didn't take it and then won it pretty comfortably on penalties. I think Boreham Wood missed three. There was a player for Boram Wood, Abdul Malik. I think he was outstanding. Sort of budget. Jeremy Doku. I would say that's probably being unkind to him, but he was the standout player on the pitch and didn't deserve to be on the losing team. But, you know, life isn't fair, is it?
- [56:52]
A
No, it isn't. Women's FA cup semi finals were also both incredibly exciting. Robin, you were at Chelsea, Man City. Chelsea two up with four minutes to go.
- [57:01]
F
Yep. And then they ended up losing. Before that, Liverpool were tunnel up and Brighton won 3 2, right in the last minute. So, yeah, really dramatic day. And the big thing is that Bonnie Shaw, who Manchester City look like they're going to lose. She's their record scorer, she's an incredible striker and just be, I mean, don't know the ins and outs, but basically mismanagement from Man City. They've let her contract run down. I believe she wanted to stay, but Chelsea look like they're in pole position to sign her because they're offering her a longer term deal as well as more money and she was the one who put Chelsea out. So she scored the equalizer sent to extra time and then she scored the winner. So yeah, again, just these storylines just make it. It even more compelling. But yeah, two really great semi finals.
- [57:46]
A
Chelsea offering a long contract is surprising. Yeah. And she took both her goals really well there. Yes.
- [57:52]
D
Philippe.
- [57:52]
H
Yeah.
- [57:53]
D
And that's. Not that we haven't mentioned it. She's been voted the Women's Footballer of the year and there was no controversy. I think that was plebiscite, basically that she's just been absolutely amazing.
- [58:04]
A
Obviously. Guardian, Women's Football Weekly out tomorrow. So listen to that. Subscribe to it. It's great. Felipe Sid's on tomorrow to talk about Barcelona beating Real Madrid, Rashford scoring then winning La Liga. You wanted to talk about, about that and the Kylian Mbappe petition for him to go because he went on a mini break to Sardinia and I suppose some other things.
- [58:22]
D
Yeah, I mean the thing. Yeah, it's just absolutely ridiculous. The fact is, what really concerns me about this petition which has now got something like 73 million signatures, is that it's been given an awful lot of acreage and space in media. In the media and in people who should know better about what's going on. It's an absolute scandal what's going on here. There aren't 72 million people who have signed this petition. It's all done with bots and AI. And the fact that it's taken seriously is indicative of a serious problem in the way we cover news. It's absolute bollocks. The whole petition thing is bollocks. The people who have signed are not verified. The whole operation probably just cost a few hundred euros to set up everything. Because believe me, no petition has ever required for anything, has ever required that type of number of signatures in such a short space of time. And the problem is that we can dismiss it because it's ludicrous. It's utterly ludicrous. But the problem is that it's not being dismissed. And if you do a search, if you look at the websites, if you look at the papers, it's everywhere. And taken seriously, it shouldn't be. It's utter bollocks.
- [59:37]
A
Sorry, I was going to say, does anyone take it. Is anyone really taking it seriously? I understand, but does anyone really take petition petitions? There are so many petitions for everything and you think, wow, this is all. I mean, like, like who is. Even if Mark or whoever are. Are reporting on it, this is this
- [59:52]
D
is Real Madrid, so it has consequences as well on the player. And I'm not saying that because I'm a huge fan of Kylian, Babe, about whom I've written a terrific book, which is just out and which you can find in all decent bookshops. But it's. It's. But it is being taken seriously because the headlines are 70 at the beginning. Like 2 million people demand BAPE being sold, which becomes 25, becomes 72. 75. And yeah, it's taken seriously. It's a degradation in the way that we cover news, basically, which I find very concerning. I'm sure it's water for ducks back. When it comes to Kylian himself, he doesn't care about that. And the Real Madrid people, that's not exactly where they're going to base any decision on. But the fact is somebody is able to create all these bots, use fake email addresses and find whatever they're doing. This campaign, becoming a top item, a top news item absolutely everywhere, and being taken seriously by an awful lot of people who don't understand how this can be put together. And I think that is really concerning. Yeah.
- [60:58]
A
All right, well, we'll do more with Sid on that tomorrow, but that'll do for today. Managed to get through a lot. Well done, everybody. Thank you, Barry. Thank you. You. Cheers, Robin.
- [61:06]
F
Thanks, Max.
- [61:08]
A
Merci, Monsieur Olair. Bon pour Arsenal, etc.
- [61:15]
D
Thank you very much.
- [61:16]
A
Nice that you were the one who forgot to speak French rather than me in that moment. I enjoyed that tremendously. Football Week. Maybe he's not French at all. He's the spy. Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray. Our executive producer is Joel Grove. And we'll be back tomorrow.
- [61:42]
F
This is the Guardian.