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Football Weekly
Arsenal leave it late in Lisbon and Bayern win at Bernabéu – Football Weekly
00:53:28
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Nicky Bandini and Archie Rhind-Tutt as Arsenal get a late winner against Sporting and Real Madrid and Bayern Munich play out a belter at the Bernabéu
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- [00:00]
Barry Glendenning
This is the Guardian.
- [00:12]
Baz
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- [00:21]
Jameela Jamil
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- [00:51]
Baz
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- [01:07]
Max
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Delete the bottle gifts, Cancel the crying. Laughing emojis. An absolutely crucial win for Arsenal in the Champions League. Not a classic and the Gunners weren't great, but in injury time. Martinelli drew the defense. Kai Havertz stood still as the Sporting defense parted and the Germans slotted home. Mikel Arteta won't rest. David Raya again, he was excellent. A much better game at the Bernabeu. Bayern could have put this tie to bed. Huge chances before Luis Diaz put them ahead. Kari Kane made it two immediately after the break, but Real rallied. Trent's perfect ball from Mbappe and the tires alive. There's a big Easter of EFL to look back on after bigging up Millwall on Thursday. They lost to Norwich, helping IPS switch into the top two in Ligue 1. Lincoln are promoted and the mighty Youths can see two last minute equalizers in a row. Not now, lads. We'll do that. Salute. Aaron Ramsey to a bit of Serie A in the Bundesliga. What were you doing when the world ended? You were listening to the Guardian Football Week clean. On the panel today. Barry Glendenning, welcome.
- [02:05]
Barry Glendenning
Hi, Max.
- [02:07]
Max
Hello, Archie. Mintut.
- [02:08]
Archie
Isn't there a ceasefire, Max?
- [02:10]
Max
Okay, I should. I'll delay that for two weeks, but thank you so much. Hello, Nikki Bandini.
- [02:15]
Baz
Morning, Max.
- [02:15]
Max
Let's start then in Lisbon. As Chris says, if you can't let the hand break off on the last night of civilization, when can you? But look, I mean, not the best game. Nikki and Arsenal weren't brilliant, but Sporting is not an easy place to go. They had a 17 game unbeaten run there and Arsenal just needed a win to go in off their backside. And maybe that's a bit disingenuous. They were probably better than that. But what a massive moment for you.
- [02:40]
Baz
God, don't want to be flippant about world news is far More important. But you have made me think now if that was the last game of football you ever saw.
- [02:47]
Archie
Yeah, no, not much of a game
- [02:49]
Baz
of football, I have to say. But, but listen, people say it doesn't matter how many times people who don't enjoy seeing Arsenal win pointed out Arsenal fans don't care. The team's not interesting if they win. And they did win. And in the end this was a really, really good result. Sporting had won 17 games in a row at home. And I know it's easy to, to, to roll eyes at that and go, oh well, they're just dominant domestically or whatever. But know that that includes Champions League games. That includes beating PSG here in a game where they, in fact that game, I think they had 25% possession, they still went 2:1. So they are a very effective team that know how to get results. They obviously in the last round turned over that 3 nil deficit against Bode and smashed them 5 nil. They're a good team. And it really was quite painful viewing. I was obviously main screening this with the Bayern Real Madrid game on a nearby smaller screen. And you kept wanting to watch the Bayern Real Madrid game because there just wasn't much happening. But Nikolai Totter won't care. Arsenal fans don't care. They got a really good win away from home and now they, they control the tie going into the return leg in London.
- [03:59]
Max
Yeah. And Baz, that Havertz goal is, I think it's interesting, he's such a graceful player and he becomes more graceful because he's sort of vying for a spot with Yokorez in a way. And Yokerez doesn't control and finish like that. And Havertz did.
- [04:14]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, it was a great pass from Martinelli to Havertz near the penalty spot. He, his first touch was just wonderful. Killed the ball stone dead and then slipped it past Rui Silva. Lovely touch, lovely finish. Got a much needed win. For Arsenal. Any win after two straight high profile defeats is a good one. Any win from away from home against a team that's so good at home and has turned the stadium into a fortress is good. And I suppose there the positives you take out of this, it was a bad game of football and I really wish Arsenal would play a match like there's absolutely no harm in going away from home in the quarterfinal of a Champions League winning one nil. That's brilliant. It's great result. But I just, I wonder, does anyone apart from Arsenal fans enjoy watching Arsenal? Because when you sit down to watch A football match, you're investing two, two and a half hours of your time that could otherwise be spent watching a movie, putting a dent in a box set, painting a picture, reading a book, whatever, walking the dog. And they all seem, with the possible exception of painting a picture because I'm no good at art, they all seem like much better alternatives to watching, to play football. During the group stage, they played with the handbrake off, they played with a bit of vim and vigor and swagger and they were enjoyable to watch. But increasingly, in high pressure games, they're just. It's laborious, it's slow, it's monotonous, it's dull. Belt embraces football. And when you compare that to the other game, which was on last night, which we'll get to, I mean, it's just two different sports.
- [06:09]
Max
I like the idea of you staring longingly at the easel as you have to watch this Champions League football. Ah, another still. Life goes begging as you're invested in the quarterfinals of the Champions League. Do you agree with that, Archie?
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Archie
As a sort of.
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Max
As a.
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Archie
As a neutral, my main takeaway was Barry's become such a modern football fan. Entertain me or you do not have my attention.
- [06:34]
Max
Forget it.
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Archie
And I was thinking, 20 years ago, Baz would have watched anything. It wouldn't have mattered what it was. But now, with all the distractions around him, he's like, oh, but do I have better things to do? But, yeah, I mean, look, ultimately, I can't really disagree. As someone who's had to watch quite a bit of Arsenal live in the flesh recently, I have to say, the difference that David Raya makes in the calmness with which that team defends. And seeing the difference from Southampton on Saturday, when Southampton got in behind, it didn't seem quite as calm. And also just the difference I think, that Arsenal have on the ball, as we saw in the Carabao Cup Final, what Raya can do, he really does improve that team a lot. We've talked a lot about Arsenal's strength and depth this season and we've seen that actually, if you drill through their creative midfield depth like it has been, and then you force Martin Odegaard to come back with zero rhythm, having not started a game since January. It was until that Southampton game. I think it's even tougher for them to look vaguely interesting to the likes of Barry and myself. So, yeah, it's. It's quite an interesting one because they still have to eke out results and I think it's really tweaked the narrative, the fact that they did get that late goal last night because if they hadn't, then it would have been, well, three games without a win. What does this mean for Bournemouth? And it's ramped up even further. So it does feel like a. Like a huge goal for their season.
- [08:17]
Barry Glendenning
I don't want to totally raise on their parade that Martin Zubamendi finish that was ruled out for the Yacht offside. What a strike of a ball that was. That was a wonderful non goal.
- [08:31]
Baz
I think that's like. Builds into a bigger point, which is. You can say it's boring because it is. It's not exciting football, but that doesn't mean there's no method to it and there's no reason that you win games like this. Yes, of course, when it's nil. Nil that late, it could easily end in a draw. But Arsenal gave up very little. They have a very good goalkeeper. I do think David Raya. I'm trying to find Arteta's phrase from his notes. He's extraordinary, magnificent. Incredible was the way Arteta put it. And it's true. I mean, David Raya is a great goalkeeper. Alan Shearer was talking about this on commentary last night. Listen, when you're playing elsewhere in the team and you know you've got to keep like that behind you, it. It gives you a level of confidence that. That transforms things. But I do think it's. It's worth saying again that these goals, even when they come late, aren't by accident. 38 goals and assists Arsenal have had this season from. From players off the bench. And it's a. It's a. It's a not particularly novel point to come back to because we've made it since early in the season. But Arsenal's squad depth is part of why they think they are ready to win trophies this season. Certainly there is a greater anxiety about that after losing two cups back to back. But they are still in the Champions League. They are still top of the league. And part of that is because you've built a squad of extraordinary depth and extraordinary quality. I mean, Kai Havertz is a player who's been here and won it before and that makes a difference as well.
- [09:58]
Archie
Is it me or are the last 10 minutes of Arsenal games actually really exciting though? Because there seems to be. They keep having big moments actually throughout this season where they get late goals and they do come up trumps. I mean, it went the other way against Southampton, but if I think back to Martinelli scoring against Man City earlier In the season, the late Jocores moment against Everton, against Wolves, for examp example. There is something in this team that, that still is there. And then, yeah, I contrast that Max with. I contrast that with the. I was sat right behind the bench at the weekend, right behind the arsenal bench at St. Mary's and seeing how much Mikel Arteta bitches to his assistants about his players and seeing how at one point he turns around and Joe's like, where is Ben White?
- [10:58]
Max
Maybe he's like, Barry maybe. Maybe he's sitting there going, I could be painting a picture. And I have this guy.
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Archie
So it's.
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Max
The interesting thing, I think, is that when you look at the team, right, and you go, well, Saka or Madawake are really exciting players. Martinelli's a really exciting player. Trossard's a super clever player. Odegaard's so creative. Eze as well. You've got like. Califiora is a really dynamic, attacking fullback. He's not thinking. They've got all the ingredients to be like a really sort of swashbuckling team and yet they aren't. I mean, producer Tire, who people might know from the Tuesday club is a big Arsenal fan who had to mute the group on Saturday when people were getting excited about Southampton winning. He said, we don't enjoy it either, but. But we have to. We have to watch it.
- [11:36]
Barry Glendenning
I do wonder if the players enjoy it, being micromanaged by this control freak. We saw that thing from the training ground the other day with the. I don't know what they were doing. Everyone holding biros and shuffling around like some sort of weird Scottish traditional dance. I have no idea what that was about. I presume there was some sort of reason or logic behind it, but if. If they don't win trophies and they haven't won trophies for. Since 2020, what. What is the point of this? If I was an elite level professional footballer who could take my pick of European sides, I honestly think that Arsenal under Arteta is the last place I dream of going.
- [12:25]
Max
Winning is everything. I think this is probably any level of football, like any level. If you come off and you've won, you forget almost everything that has happened. And. And I suppose, Nikki, that means it. It feels so important that they win something this season.
- [12:40]
Barry Glendenning
Right?
- [12:40]
Baz
Yeah. I think to bring it back to the. The smaller picture, I guess, of last night, it wasn't the sort of performance that makes me think they can go on and win this competition. When you're watching Bayern and we'll get to buying and I mean I, I think it's easy for Arsenal fans to go. We already beat by it in the group stage. This is not the same buying. It's not the same Arsenal in my opinion. I think Arsenal playing worse buying are playing much better. I think that's those, those two things have shifted and I think the Champions League right now feels like a long way off for Arsenal, even though in theory it's only what, four games off now from, from winning the whole competition. But they are still top of the Premier League. They are still currently nine points clear. Albeit City have that game in hand in the Premier League. And I do think that is again as, as unexciting as it will be to anyone who's not an Arsenal fan. Winning the Premier League would be a really big deal for Arsenal and for all the players there. And I think that's worth saying. I do think on the, the excitement factor there is one thing that just to, to throw into as well, which is I could see on social media and I could feel as you're getting towards the end of that game, this feeling of oh well, Max Dalman can come on soon and that'll put a bit of vim into things. I just think, listen, I'm, I'm with everyone on the Max Dalman train. I'm excited for him. But I think that's a, another reminder of how desperately Arsenal needs sack her back. Just because they need someone who can freelance. They need someone who can be that slightly more unpredictable element who isn't just this 16 year old who is amazing and who's going to be great. But let's not put it all on him to be the one fun thing in the team. That's such an unfair expectation.
- [14:11]
Archie
Just on the point of do these players want to play in this way? I think it's interesting because Mikel Arteta has the upper hand in that he can say of almost the entirety of this team, I made you into being this close to being a winner, like who came in on a bigger status to this club than where the club is not really anyone. I mean, Martin Zubamendi won the euros with Spain. I think that that dynamic means that it's not quite as straightforward as, well, you know, we want to play exciting football. The players have not got really other experiences of doing that. This is the closest that they've all come and this is the, this is the way that they know so that also makes a difference for them. And, and when you're, I think when you're playing a game in Their position you're just focusing on. Okay, well, what's the next scenario that we have to face? And I think entertaining people is. Is of little interest.
- [15:12]
Max
Yeah, I mean, it is worth mentioning we talked about Raya, the save from the Araujo strike because, you know, it took me about four replays to think he got anything on him. It's a wonderful pass and it's a great strike. And that was of the saves. I thought that was the, you know, the really elite one, wasn't it? I don't have any. I think we've done well to get 60 minutes out of that is what I think, you know.
- [15:35]
Archie
You know, I think we say Sporting did well.
- [15:39]
Max
Yeah, I thought they were. Yes, very good point. Take it away.
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Archie
We continue to. We continue even after the Bordeaux game like it was. It was more. Well, Bodo have lost this, haven't they? And yet actually Sporting deserve great credit for getting this far. And I think that when people look at the whole draw they go, oh, all the usual teams. But Sporting are not really used to being here. And the fact that under Ruben Amarim they really stepped up to becoming this third power in Portugal and the fact that they have. And I mean that in terms of qualifying for the Champions League was not a regular thing that they were doing. So that they're in this position now is also thanks to Ruben Amarim and the legacy that he left. And this game is still not done. It's only one nil. And Sporting actually went to the Emirates a few years ago in the Europa League and managed to win there and knock them out in similarly tight circumstances. They have some really good players who are good at combining with few touches around the box. So this. This could still be interesting next week.
- [16:53]
Max
Coefficient news. This win for Arsenal means five spots in the Champions League for Premier League clubs. So that is good news for your Liverpools and your Chelsea's and your Aston Villas and your Manchester Uniteds. Johnny says. Any chance of a eulogy for Aaron Ramsey's career? One of the heroes of Euro 2016, the Welsh Euro 96. One of those midfielders who could just decide to go up a gear and win a game by themselves. Yeah, he announced his retirement yesterday. Started out at Cardiff City. Was signed by arsene Wenger in 2008. Spent more than a decade at Arsenal. Had stints after that with Juve, Nice, Cardiff and Rangers. And his last club was Mexican side Pumas. At the end of the last year he won three FA Cups, won the Serie A title, Copper Italia and the Scottish Cup. Chris Coleman Called him the best Welsh midfielder ever. Got 86 caps, you know, was integral in that Euro 2016 run for Wales to the semi final. Got to the team of the tournament. Nikki, what a great player. I have this image that the. It's Galatasaray away. I was watching that goal he scored, I don't know if you remember, with his left foot. It's sort of on the volley, it bounces up and it's just the most beautiful strike. But yeah, a great, a great footballer.
- [17:58]
Baz
Yeah, and I think that was true. Even definitely into his time at Juventus, there was that feeling that if he could just, if he could just be on the pitch and, and, and stay consistent, he was, the talent was still there. And especially that ability, frankly, to change a game just by having that finishing and by having that ability to score a brilliant goal out of nowhere. I think he was a really wonderful footballer. And I think unfortunately for lots of us, you just always ask that question of if it's not for that injury at Stoke, do we have a different story to tell about this guy? Because it was pretty clear that his career never normally never showed moments of being the same, but it was never fully the same after that injury.
- [18:41]
Max
Yeah, well, we wish him well. And that'll do for part one. Part two we will look back on a brilliant game of football at the Burnabout. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Real Madrid 1, Bayern Munich 2. This is the most played tie in European cup history. 40 shots in total, 20 each. Manuel Neuer is 40 and got man of the match, made nine saves. But it's weird. It didn't feel like an even game to me, Archie. I mean I, I feel Bayern will be kicking themselves that they are not further ahead after this game.
- [19:17]
Archie
In terms of performances this season, this was not their best one. And yet because of the challenge that going away to Real Madrid presents, I think that this was mentally their best performance of the season and the biggest win of Vincent Kompany's time at the club so far. Because you saw it in that first half where day Upamecano has a chance where you think if the roles are reversed and it's Kane who's on the end of Upamecano's cross, then it's going in and you see that he struggles to adjust his weight. You have the SEO Gnabry chance where Thiago Pizac for the second game running somehow gets away with. Yeah, bad piece of build up play at the back and rescued by a, a goalkeeping. It's not quite as much of a goalkeeping miracle as the last one was. But anyway, the point is, I think you see that actually after that chance, Real Madrid go down the other end with Kylian Mbappe and create something out of nothing. And that's where you're thinking, are Bayern starting to wobble here? But to be honest, I think this was a victory of Bayern's mental fortitude. That despite the fact that passing wasn't quite as precise as usual, that it seemed like players were a little bit off color, the fact that they still found their way through and managed to win. And of course, as you say, Manuel Neuer, even at 40, to see him have as much fun as he did with each save and kind of puffing out his chest after each one, it tells a story of its own. I don't think Bayern will be kicking themselves because they know that they will still create chances back home and, and actually that they can play better. Whereas Real Madrid, it felt like were at their limits and could only cause Bayern so many issues.
- [21:15]
Max
I mean, I lost made Barry of, you know, the, the strike force that Real Madrid have and it is good, but actually like Diaz and Elise along, you know, either side of Kane is. It feels like it's as good as it can be. Like it must be. It's so hard to defend against that.
- [21:32]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I know Neuer got man of the match. I say Elise was very much in that conversation. He absolutely tore Alvaro Carreras a new one. The. The Real Madrid left back. He had a nightmare game. Diaz's goal was brilliant. The, the build up play between Kane and Nabri. Superb. Actually. Thomas Tuchel was at this game. I mean, he doesn't need to go to, to the Burnabout to figure for that, to figure out that Harry Kane is an important player. But I think Trent Alexander Arnold won't have done anything to, to convince him he should be in his World cup plans because he made a couple of big mistakes and also provided a delightful cross for the Real Madrid goal. That was a wonderful cross. We all know what he can do going forward. It's his defensive frailties that mean he isn't in the England squad. And Jude Bellingham I thought was good when he came on. He. He made a few rampaging runs forward, but this was a. I love this game. It was so exciting. I think there's the speed and imagination with which Bayern Munich moves the ball around at times is almost mesmerizing. And Real Madrid often calamitous at the back. There was one stage where Lunan the goalkeeper played just the mother of all hospital passes to a defender who had like three Bayern Munich players surrounding him in close proximity. And you just go, what. What are you doing? And that could. Should, probably should have cost them a call. Vinicius Jr. Missed a big chance. Lawyer made nine saves. As you say. It's. It was a really good game. I think the better team won, but it could have gone either way.
- [23:19]
Archie
Yeah.
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Max
As well. I don't know, Nikki, maybe it's sort of. You're watching the game and so mentally the time Real Madrid come back into it, and that was quite Bellingham inspired. You're like, Bayern should be 3 up, but, like, credit to Real Madrid. I mean, like, you can never write off realm, you know, of all the teams you can't write off, it's Real Madrid. And they did really rally in that last sort of half hour.
- [23:36]
Baz
Well, even at nil. Nil, there were some pretty big chances for Real Madrid. I feel like this is a game where you can simultaneously say the correct team won. Bayern with a better team, in my opinion. But I also don't think it would have been that unreasonable if Real Madrid had scored four. I think they could have won five. Four. You would have thought that's. That's fair enough. That's kind of how the game went. And it was, it was. It was a very Real Madrid in the Champions League game because they tend to look like that. Right. Every time you've got Vinicius and Mbappe on the pitch together when they go forward like this, that there's not many teams that manage to contain them very well. Bayern were brave enough to come and try and play them and succeed at playing them, frankly. And. And that's because they have attacking talents of their own who can stand up to those two. I mean, Elise is giving, at this point, has to be giving France a real selection dilemma up front because you have a number of forwards there that don't fit between Mbappe and Dembele and Elise and. And all the rest. There's so much to go into that attack for France. I don't know what the answer is, but Elise is. Feels like since. Since the. The winter, maybe since November or December. Archie could say better than me, but it feels like he's been cheat code level of good recently. He's been absolutely outrageous. On top of that, Harry Kane is. Harry Kane might be having the best season of his whole career. And. And that goal, that finish was exemplary of it, especially coming off injury, as he has been. So both of these teams have Such extraordinary attacking talent. And then Bayern also have, as you guys have been saying, this great goalkeeper. I think even beyond the saves, there was that one moment when Vinicius goes clean through on Nia and it's one on one and Neue just stands up to him. It reminds me of my favorite one on one keeper. Always I say favorite, I hated him at the time. But the one I always think of as the best was Peter Schmeichel because he just made himself so enormous and didn't ever go to ground too early. And Neue did that to Vinicius and drove him wide and didn't let him get a shot off. But that was another chance that Madrid could have scored from. Madrid could have scored so many goals in this game and I still think that they deserved, he lost the chances
- [25:41]
Archie
that Real Madrid create. It feels like only Real Madrid can create these chances. The whole concept of xg, of Real Madrid in a Champions League game goes out the window because it feels like the kind of position and power that Kylian Mbappe can put on a shot is, is far superior to what a normal player can. And they do have just these, these pockets of extreme ability. And ultimately it's a victory for the Bayern as a team. And comparing the two philosophies of how they approach football and you look at the way that both of Bayern's goals come out of their pressing traps, of having of Real Madrid falling into that and they win the ball and they turn it over and they create a fast chance. But also it's a victory for the medical team at Bayern for the fact that they've managed to get what has been their best starting 11 on the pitch at the right time. Last season against Inter they had nine injuries where it was a completely different picture. And I've seen this season how Vincent Co. Rotates his team and has had every different combination, has tried it out and no, it meant knowing coming into this game that this was the way to go. We do also need to say, because if Harry Kane doesn't score in this game, then the narrative is, well, Harry Kane, another big game hasn't turned up and now kind of, he scores. It's like, oh, well, of course Harry Kane score. And the fact is, is that actually at the same stage of the competition last year against Inter, he misses a much easier chance at nil. Nil. And I think it is still another step for him to come up with the coolness that he did even after actually not having a great first half by his standards in terms of doing the things that watching Bayern, we're used to seeing him do so well, which is spraying balls left, right in the center over 50 yard passes and that that wasn't going to shake him out of his head. So credit to him as well. I can't contradict anything Niki's saying about Harry Kane, what Michael Elise's doing. All I'd say actually about Michael Elise is it's been the whole season and that's actually probably the most terrifying he's looked at in what was. I was also reminded a battle of ex Preston against ex Reading in the Champions League, which is also kind of fun to think about.
- [28:10]
Max
Yeah. Harry Kane, first Englishman to score 49 goals in a season for a team in Europe's top five leagues since Clive Allen for Spurs in 86, 87. I wonder if Looning could have done. I sort of feel if quarter had been there, would he have saved that shot? Maybe that's harsh on. You know, Kane did take it very early and you know the answer for France, Nikki will always be in the end with all their attacking talent. Somehow Olivia Rue will be leading the line. I did arch. I did want to ask about that midfield of.
- [28:40]
Barry Glendenning
Of.
- [28:40]
Max
Of Bayern because it's sort of not. It's not exciting necessarily. But like you saw Pavlovich, the way he, like he. He wins that ball for the second goal. Kimich is, you know, he might be 96 now, but like he's so good. And then Lima obviously comes into the midfield a lot and I think he's such a great player.
- [28:59]
Archie
Usually we actually see a lot more rotations from this Bayern team in how they play and how they press the opposition. In the PSG game earlier this season, you saw Dale Upamecano being the first line of attack at certain points. So it is really dependent on the team dynamic and how well everybody knows everyone else's role and when to push up at the right time. Pavlovic has really grown this season. He has a greater aura about him. And that game against Arsenal where Declan Rice ran the show so much, I think it was. It set down a marker to buy into midfield of you need to be able to impose yourself on a game as much as Declan Rice is able to. Kimmish has always had this ability with the ball, but sometimes he gets caught off it.
- [29:51]
Max
I think that he had a.
- [29:53]
Archie
He had a very good game last night as well. And Pavlovich actually in the first half was misplacing a few passes. But there I think we maybe saw the impact of Vincent Kompany's. Man management in the at halftime it seemed like words have been said. Let's not Forget they scored 20 seconds into the second half and just the energy with which Pavlovic came out in the second half was okay, yeah, we're here to play this. I've settled into this occasion now because let's also not forget this is the first time Bayern have won at Real Madrid in 25 years. I know they've got through there in Champions League games before in the semifinals, Most famously in 2012 I think it was. But this was still a big result for them. But yeah, this was their best team. It's not quite as good with Leon Goretzka there for example. And that they've still got players to come back into rhythm like Alphonso Davies, like Jamal Musiala, I think is a good sign for them. Leonard Karl didn't come off the bench last night and he could be a weapon as well. There are so many different components to this Bayern team that that makes it very exciting. And as Barry was talking about, with the way that they combine and how exciting that is to watch, I guess it's the kind of football that Real Madrid can't play and the fact that they're able to break down Real Madrid's in the way that they were in ways that it made it look. It made football look so simple. And yet it's really not that easy to pull apart a team like Real Madrid. So yeah, still a second leg to come, but it's encouraging signs for Bayern.
- [31:29]
Baz
I think they're favorites to win the whole tournament for me. I just wonder if you agree with that. I think. I think buying the best team in Europe this season.
- [31:35]
Archie
You know what the funny thing is because I've seen so much Bundesliga buy in and I've seen in past years, okay, they're this good, but what does it mean in Europe? I sometimes struggle to trust my eyes and it's more like I don't want to overestimate what I've seen. I am blathering on because the answer just be yes, they are the favorites.
- [31:53]
Max
I didn't want to say but yes, I felt it. Barto Athletic tonight as well as PSG Liverpool and I guess Baz is this kind of make or break for Arna slot?
- [32:04]
Barry Glendenning
I don't know is the answer to that. I don't know what the Liverpool hierarchy think of what's going on under slot. No one's given Liverpool a prayer in this game. I think they might surprise us. It seems unlikely that they will do anything other than lose. But it is Liverpool after all. So they might come away from Paris with the the tie still in the balance. The fans are upset at the moment because Liverpool have just announced at a time of relative crisis at the club, the club hierarchy have announced that ticket prices will be increasing each year for the next three years. So that has further enraged already unhappy fans. The amount of money involved, it's significant for fans but not significant for the club. I think it will result in Maybe an extra 2 million pound revenue a year which in terms of Premier League clubs is chicken feed pennies. So I don't know why they would make an announcement like this at a time when fans are already unhappy. It smacks them not really reading the room properly. I know Spirit of Shankly have called on fans to protest through the medium of not spending any money at Anfield ahead of their next their game at the weekend to spend their money in businesses outside the ground. So that isn't going to help matters. But you would imagine PSG should beat them if they're on top of their game.
- [33:37]
Max
Well, we'll find out and we'll talk about it on tomorrow's pod. Sid joining us for that. That'll do for part two. Part three. We'll begin with the efl. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So then in the championship last night Southampton continued their brilliant run. They were 51 at Wrexham so they overtake them. They are in the final playoff spot at the moment and you certainly couldn't write them off winning the rest of their games the way they're playing. So they have 66, Hull have 68, then three teams on 72. Millwall, Middlesbrough and Ipswich. Millwall lost to Norwich. Go and find Pele. Matson's strike for Norwich in this game. Hulju at Coventry so Cove close to promotion and Ipswich were pretty lucky. They beat Birmingham 2 1. But they had one of those. Did the Birmingham score? Did the ball cross the line or not? It' Gracia type thing.
- [34:31]
Barry Glendenning
Okay.
- [34:32]
Max
And at the bottom Leicester failed to beat Sheffield Wednesday which is sort of almost impossible. And actually Lester equalized late on poor Wednesday.
- [34:40]
Barry Glendenning
I saw quite a lot of that game. The Sheffield Wednesday goalkeeper Pierce Charles, who is the brother of Southampton's Shay was quite extraordinary that some of the saves he pulled off were just out of this world and I, I needed, I needed a Lester win to. To remain in a as one of only two people in a game of last man standing and I was gutted. Absolutely got it. But yeah, Hats off to Wednesday. Apart from that. I felt really sorry for them but. But yeah, Pierce Charles, the saves he was pulling off like unbelievable in a
- [35:24]
Max
really big game at the bottom as well. Portsmouth played with 10 men against Oxford for most of the game and they, they drew. They were 1 nil up then they were 21 down. They equalized late on a massive goal for them. That equalizer. Andre Dell, son of Jason. So it means Sheffield Wednesday down obviously minus five points. Oxford have 41, Leicester 41, Pompy 42. Have a game in hand. West Brom 45, Blackburn 47. You probably think they're safe by now. Roy Hodgson Watch two wins on the spin for Roy who still has his shades on. They beat Sheffield United, Bristol City. So well done Roy. Lincoln City have been promoted to the championship. Jack Morelan scored a 96 minute winner to secure a 21 win at Reading. Unbeaten in 24 games into the championship or the second tier for the first time in 65 years. A decade ago they finished 15th in the conference. Have I think the seventh smallest budget in the league. So unbelievable job from Michael Skubala and everyone at Lincoln.
- [36:21]
Barry Glendenning
Friend of the show David Priest is at Lincoln. He's their goalkeeping coach. I don't know how recently but he also is set piece coach. And an awful lot of their goals, they're like the Arsenal of League one. An awful lot of their goals come from set pieces. I think over a third. Like you said, their budget is about 5 million a season which is a third of some of the bigger teams in that division. So it's quite an extraordinary achievement for them to win promotion this early.
- [36:52]
Max
And as you call them the Arsenal of League one. It is worth pointing out that when they scored that winner in the 96th minute, it did look like they were enjoying it. Just for, for the record, probably won last night in top of League 2. Massive win for them. They were 1 nil down to Shrewsbury. So they have their highest ever points tally with four games to go. But the top of League Two, they've got 83. MK Don 76, Knox County 76, Cambridge 74. We let in a last minute equalizer to David Squires. Not to David Squires, he wasn't playing.
- [37:21]
Baz
It's come a long way to score that.
- [37:23]
Barry Glendenning
Wow.
- [37:23]
Max
Actually David Squires actually apologized to me because Swindon was so bad in that game on on Friday and then or Thursday night, wasn't it? And then we let in a last minute cards to Cheltenham. But Anyway we're on 74 with a game in hand over everyone Swindon have 74, Salford have 73. Cambridge v Knox county on Saturday is gonna be a big game. I'm absolutely terrified. But it's pretty tight in there. And at the bottom of lead two, which is normally always done. The bottom five all lost their last game over east to Harrogate have 33, Barrow 33, Newport 34, Tranmere 36, Crawley 37. So very tight. But Crawley did get a win under Colin Kazim Richards in their first game. First game. Or maybe he won two in a row. So well done.
- [38:07]
Archie
The 2000s 2010s names of of managers who are down in league two or the conference like Jermaine Defoe's at Woking, Christian Fuchs is at Newport County. You're now telling me that Colin Kazim
- [38:21]
Max
Richards is where I think he's the manager of Crawley. Unless I completely invented that.
- [38:25]
Barry Glendenning
I love it.
- [38:26]
Max
Nice guy. If the soccer am glory years or anything to be remembered. Matt says the World cup is going to be fun. I mean I just feel like. Barry. We can't really do today's pod without reminding everyone that Gianni Infantino gave Donald Trump the inaugural FIFA Peace Prize. I mean, we all knew it was bullsh. Just wait. I've been looking to see if. If Jenny's piped up now his mate has threatened the destruction of a civilization which, I mean, like, you just can't be any less peace than that, can you?
- [38:54]
Barry Glendenning
Archie, earlier in the pod talked about someone coming up trumps and I. I think it's a saying we should really shelve given the current climate, because coming up trumps is a good thing generally. But the inaugural winner of the FIFA Peace Prizes seems to have completely lost his mind, or what little of it remained. Some of his most ardent former loyalists are speaking out against him and it's quite, you know, we're joking about it. It's quite scary that he threatened to basically vaporize a country. But yeah, the World cup. Look, we always worry about or what we have in the past recent World Cups worry about them ahead of time and they usually end up being good. But I'm genuinely concerned about this one. Just that the astronomical prices people are being asked to pay for tickets, for parking spots, for transport, for hotel rooms. Who's going to be at these games that has that kind of money? I just don't know.
- [40:03]
Max
Yeah. Anyway, look more on that obviously as we get closer to the tournament. Colin Miller writing the journalist. How many managers win a top division with two different clubs? He did that in three different countries. In Romania In Ukraine and in Turkey. Absolutely ridiculous. This is Marcia Luchescu, the former Romania coach who was actually their coach for the playoffs despite being pretty unwell. He's died at the age of 80. Andy Brussel, our mate, says it's an overused word, but he genuinely was a real legend of the game. Never stopped loving it or learning about it. Knitted together nations and cultures with football via his passion for it in all forms. His death was confirmed by Bucharest University Emergency Hospital on Tuesday. He'd been taken to hospital after being reportedly having a heart attack on Friday morning. It was his second spell with the Romanian national team until he stepped down last Thursday. Three days earlier, Romania had missed out on qualification for the World cup. He won 64 caps, captained his country at the 1970 World Cup. And yeah, we send his friends and family our absolute best.
- [41:05]
Baz
Probably you could do a whole podcast on Ozeska. An incredible career, obviously, and I think that certainly some of the most successful chapters. Shakhtar winning Ukrainian Premier League over and over again, winning UEFA cup, won the Turkish League with the Galatasarayan Besiktas. But he was in Italy for a while and he launched Andrea Pierlos career at Brescia. But I think there's just so many great stories about him that when you start digging into it, you. You find. And I mean, this is obviously before, yeah, I was. I was still not even a teenager yet, I was a child, so I can't pretend I remember this one. But I was reading just this morning about when in. In 1994 when Italy had just. Just added a third substitution in games, but you could only use it to bring on your sub goalkeeper. And he was coaching Brescia at the time in a Cup game against Regan. And so he decided he could get around this rule a bit more creatively by sending on his sub goalkeeper and then sending his existing goalkeeper, Balotta up front. So instead of taking off his goalkeeper, he used this rule to get himself an extra striker, which didn't work. And apparently if it had worked, they would have given them a loss anyway because that wasn't really how the rule was intended. But certainly a creative mind. And I think there's thousands of stories I've had about Lucescu and I think we couldn't do him justice here, but he left a big impression.
- [42:25]
Max
Can we ask Niki about the sort of fallout of Italy not qualifying for the World cup again?
- [42:30]
Baz
Yeah, I don't know how much it's moved on. Everything is slow. We're not going to get new People in place until. Until the summer. But maybe when I was last on, no one had resigned yet, and now everyone's resigned from Gattuzzo, the manager, to Gravina, the head of the Football Federation. So we are in this period of waiting to see what happens next. It's going to be, as it always is in Italy, a bun fight and a power str. Struggle. The. The. The. The board that makes it. The board that makes decisions for the Italian Football Federation is made up of all sorts of different power bases, from political ones through to ones representing the different levels of the game domestically. And there's already been people from Serie, I think, was complaining again the other day that, well, we spend all this money and we give all this money to the Football Federation, but our voice is no bigger than the. The amateur leagues. They have the same voting power that we do, and that's not right. So there's going to be. There's going to be a. What comes next on a managerial level. There's a few names that are jumping out. There's been talk, incredibly, of Guardiola, which I think for me, even though he's a great manager, would probably not be the right choice for lots of reasons. I think that there are lots of strong Italian names being put forward. But I did think it was interesting this weekend that when Antonio Conte was asked who of course, has been the manager before, I think a lot of people would think was a good, strong appointment, besides the fact maybe that the next World cup is four years away. And when does Conte ever stay anywhere that long? But I, I thought it interesting that when he was asked about it after Napoli game this weekend, he said if I was in charge, I would ask Antonio Conte. So I suppose that's a very Antonio Conte answer. But he also. It sounds like someone who would think about it, doesn't it? You probably would say something different if you weren't interested in it at all.
- [44:19]
Max
So I guess looking at the Serie A table and in the WhatsApp group, both you and Archie was saying, listen, the domestic leagues aren't totally fascinating at the moment, but Como, like someone who doesn't look at the Serie A table a lot and sees Como in fourth place, you know, in a Champions League spot at the moment. Is that the story of the season?
- [44:34]
Baz
It's certainly one of them. And it could become the story that makes everything more interesting next weekend. Because right now, as you say, Inter are seven points clear. After. After they got a big win against Roma at the weekend, needed that win. Because they had been wobbling before that. They didn't win a single game in the month of March, but they're still seven points clear. But their next game is in fact a way to Colmore. Now if they lose to Colmore and Napoli win a game, that gap goes down to four points and suddenly you might be talking about a title race going into it. Inter also have Colmore again in the SEM of the Coppa Italia. They drew the first leg in Como. So Como are absolutely one of the stories of the season in Serie A. They have the tightest defence in all of Serie A. Cesc Fabregas has without question, I think this season proved his managerial chops. I think he's really done a really impressive job there. And listen, they are not an out of nowhere fairy tale story. They are owned by the Hartona brothers who are are extremely wealthy, some of the wealthiest football owners of anywhere in Europe. And money, serious money has been invested in this project. It's also becoming a bit of a lightning rod project at this specific moment because they don't play any Italian players. They have only a couple in the whole squad and they barely play. So is this more evidence of why Italian football isn't doing well on the international stage? Because all the domestic teams are turning to foreigners instead. But they are a great team. They have a standout talent in Nico Paz, who of course is only on loan from Real Madrid and might go back. But there's been so many others this season who've. Who've really stood up and been super impressive. From Bachirina, the Croatian midfield, to Divicas, the Greek striker. They've really done a lot good this season. They played good football, entertaining football and they are the one team, I suppose that could reopen this title race as well, even though they're not going to be in it. So yeah, very impressive team this season.
- [46:25]
Max
How's. How's Jamie Vardy doing?
- [46:27]
Baz
He's had lots of goodwill. I think there was a sort of a desire in England for him to have this transformative late chapter at Cremones. He scored five goals, one in January, but the rest have been close to the beginning. Lots of willing. I think that this idea that slightly got fueled by an over enthusiastic English press that he did shown up in Italy and was smashing. Everybody was a little bit overoptimistic.
- [46:56]
Max
Right, Archie, the big story from the Bundesliga is what it's not very good. Right.
- [47:06]
Archie
It's a really tough season to watch, to be honest. Apart from Bayern Munich being amazing, the table makes it look like Borussia Dortmund are having a really good season and yet the feeling around that club is not that though. Look, they've lost two games this season and both of those have been to Bayern. And you can make the argument, well, if they'd won both of those games, then they'd be above Bayern. And yet the truth is there are light years between how these two teams play. Dortmund are going to qualify for the Champions League again. It feels like they're going around in a loop. They have sacked their sporting director, Sebastian Kael and brought in a guy called Nils Ollerbouk who has achieved amazing things with Elversberg helping to bring them sporting director bringing them from the fourth tier to the second tier. And they are on the cusp of promotion. But there's so many different things at play with the Dortmund hierarchy and how that works and so many voices and it feels like Dortmund are just too happy at qualifying for the Champions League and not winning anything. For them to really challenge Bayern and for them to be ready like Leverkusen were when they won the league two years ago. But yeah, it lacks Chappie Alonso and all the players that were there for him at the bottom of the table. Wolfsburg could get relegated, which is really amazing given on a financial. From a financial point of view, Max, if you look at the teams from 12th to 18th, Wolfsburg at 17th. But if you look at the teams around them, okay, so Gladbach, Bremen, Cohen, St. Pauli, Heidenheim. In the last five years combined they have spent 255 million on transfers.
- [48:49]
Max
Okay.
- [48:50]
Archie
Wolfsburg alone in that same period has spent 307 million. So the fact that they are on the cusp of relegation, it is an amazing feat of mismanagement. One of the greatest we have seen in German football. It is incredible how they have flip flopped between. I think we need to go for a possession based coach. No, wait, let's go transition and just back and forth and.
- [49:16]
Max
Yeah, sounds like, sounds like Tottenham to me, but.
- [49:20]
Archie
But on a completely different level because in the Bundesliga there is like there are teams who have money and many teams do not. And I feel a bit sorry for Christian Eriksen, to be honest, that having endured what he did at Manchester United, for him to then go, I'm going to go to Wolfsburg this season and be part of this shower. Yeah, that it, it is really not
- [49:45]
Barry Glendenning
to be fair, he, he has endured worse.
- [49:50]
Max
Yes. He's got some perspective, we hope. Yeah. And listen, maybe like, maybe like me, he didn't know he was playing for Wolsburg until just now, in which case he's only just found out, because that's when I found out. But good luck, Christian. Come on. Tom got in touch finally. Want some running inspiration from fellow running enthusiast Barry Glendenning. Hi, Max. Me and my uni mates really love the pod. I've somehow managed to convince them to do the Milan Marathon with me on Sunday. I think this will be the first and last for at least two of them. But we'll all be listening to the most recent POD before Sunday on the way around. And a shout out from fellow long distance runner Barry would really give us a much needed boost. We're two Toms, a Mark and a Joe, but our group chat is called Mike Oliver's Weird Run because Mike Oliver did a slightly weird run when the chat was made in 2019. I'd like to hear other WhatsApp group names with members of the PGMOL in them. Anyway, feel free to just shout out Mike Oliver's Weird Run if that saves Barry some time. Many thanks, Tom. Over to you, Barry.
- [50:50]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, well, Mike Oliver's Weird Run are embarking on a very ambitious run which is twice as long as the one I'll be doing on Sunday, so good luck to them. I. I could. I just cannot wait for this to be over one way or the other.
- [51:07]
Max
Well, you said to me, Barry, you said. You said before the POD side that you were tapering, which is sort of how I felt. You'd been. Your entire life had been tapering, but you are actually tapering. And you're so close now. You are so close to. I mean, this is all about, obviously Tom and your mates and the Milan Marathon, but.
- [51:23]
Barry Glendenning
Oh, never mind then. It's all about me.
- [51:25]
Max
Never mind. It's all about Barry. Number two on the. Sorry, I made a donation, but late. I don't know if it would have taken you over the edge, Barry.
- [51:33]
Barry Glendenning
I saw that. £5. Thank you very much.
- [51:36]
Max
That's all right. Yeah. I just.
- [51:37]
Archie
I just wanted to ask, Barry, you know, as we close in on the big day, what high performance basics are you doing to get yourself over the line?
- [51:47]
Barry Glendenning
Well, I plan to get up very early on Sunday morning, hit myself with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire several times, have an ice bath, write a list of what I hope to achieve that day, and prominent on the list will be run 13.1 miles, have some lunch, go and get pissed.
- [52:14]
Max
I was gonna say, before you go, before you get wasted in celebration, make sure you have a proper. This is Mark Glendenning. Talking. Make sure you have a proper meal. Okay.
- [52:25]
Barry Glendenning
So I. I suspect my performance on Monday mornings pod will not be especially high. So I. I may need to be carried in every sense of the word.
- [52:37]
Max
Oh yeah.
- [52:38]
Barry Glendenning
To my chair and through the pod.
- [52:41]
Max
Can you do a voice note post race please? Like as soon as you cross the line, please. Just want to hear the. The excitement. Anyway, look, we'll talk about this over the next two pods. I'm sure if you'd like to wish him like footballweekly@the guardian.com or you know, just sen. Final thoughts before his demise.
- [52:59]
Barry Glendenning
I'd rather have sent. Sent money to Barry Glendenning at Justgiving if. If anyone out there hasn't yet. But I think pretty much everyone has because the generosity of our listeners has been both extraordinary and annoying. Because I'm under far too much pressure.
- [53:19]
Max
Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks everybody. Thank you Archie.
- [53:22]
Archie
Thank you.
- [53:23]
Max
Thanks Nikki.
- [53:24]
Baz
Don't die, Baz.
- [53:25]
Barry Glendenning
That's right.
- [53:26]
Max
Great advice. That's what you can shout if you are there and you see him running around. Thank you, Baz.
- [53:32]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. I'm saying to you in Sunday, Max, I have on the back of your number you have to write the details of your next of kin.
- [53:40]
Max
Yeah.
- [53:40]
Barry Glendenning
So that position is up for grabs because all my next of kin live in other countries. Sure.
- [53:47]
Max
Well listen, I'll be your next of kin if I get the flat that if you die.
- [53:53]
Barry Glendenning
That's not going to happen, Max.
- [53:54]
Max
Okay. It's a shame. Okay, well then I don't mind if you. I don't mind if you live. That's okay. Football Weekly is produced by Tyo Papula and Jesse Howard. Our executive producer is Joel Grove. Back tomorrow.
- [54:12]
Barry Glendenning
This is the Guardian.
- [54:24]
Jameela Jamil
We're lost and kickoff's coming up. I don't want to miss the lineup. I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the stadium.
- [54:34]
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- [54:38]
Archie
Nah, I'm just kidding.
- [54:39]
T-Mobile Advertiser
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- [54:40]
Jameela Jamil
How is there signal out here?
- [54:42]
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- [54:54]
Jameela Jamil
Actually, can you pull up the way to a T Mobile store?
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